NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm debating someone about this and I just want to get some facts strait about modern/historical Judaism:

Do Jews beleive in Heaven or Hell? If its limited to certain groups/times, which?

Same question about Satan.

All I know is the nation of Israel needs to get their damned hands out of America's legislative branch. Why the hell are they even allowed to have a special intrest group in America?

All I know is the nation of Israel needs to get their damned hands out of America's legislative branch. Why the hell are they even allowed to have a special intrest group in America?


Word up.

All I know is the nation of Israel needs to get their damned hands out of America's legislative branch. Why the hell are they even allowed to have a special intrest group in America?

chill

If it wasnt for America Israel would be long gone. Personally Im ok with that. Arabs may slobber at the mouth in hopes of killing all jews but I hope my country continues to help in stopping Hitlers dream from coming true.

I'm not sure about Zoroastrian influence in Judaism... seems a far stretch. Jewish mysticism has dealt with afterlife concepts since the beginning of the religion, starting with the Book of Concealed Mystery, supposedly written by Abraham.

I guess when we use heaven and hell we do so with a christian connotation that equates to polarities between good and evil. Heaven is FOR the good, but it is simply the world as it would be if everyone followed all of God's laws, whereas hell is nonexistence.

Judaism, just as every ancient religion from antiquity has divided man into body, soul, and spirit.

The Torah is the law, for the body.
The Mishna is the soul of the law, for elevating man to develop his divine spark.
The Qabbalah is the soul of the soul of the law, concerning metaphysics and the planes of existence- the unity of spirit between the creative force, or God, the zodiac and the universe that man is and is within man.

Actually, he is correct. For instance, Jewish Seraphims came from Zorastranism's Seraphs which were basicly sphinx like creatures which were basicly angels. Zorastrians had two god like entities, Azura Mazda as the benevolent god, and Ahriman as the evil god of the underworld. Zorastranism was around much earlier than the Judeah culture and was primarly belived in ancient Persia. It is believed that the Persian beliefs migrated across the middle east.

The bible wasn't even formally written down untill they Hebrews were enslaved in Babylonia. And by then they had mixed their beliefs with many other beliefs and cultures that were present.

chill

If it wasnt for America Israel would be long gone. Personally Im ok with that. Arabs may slobber at the mouth in hopes of killing all jews but I hope my country continues to help in stopping Hitlers dream from coming true.

I could care less if we had treaties to protect Israel. That is a legitimate international agreement. However, the thought of Iraeli citizens from across the globe having MORE political say, influence, and representation in my OWN government than me, a ****ing loyal American citizen looking out for the best intrests of my country, is downright ludicrous, undemocratic, and against what this country is supposed to stand for.

Israelis aren't looking out for the US's best intrest. Hell, you wouldn't have seen such a hissy fit in the peace plan evacuation if that were so.

We have begun to get sucked in THEIR battles if you haven't noticed because they do whatever the hell they want and piss people off then get away with it. And now OUR country is getting blamed and disliked for it. Its like having a very *****y girlfriend pissing off a LOT of guys because she can. After a while, it starts to piss you off you aren't even welcomed in parts you were welcomed in before.

So why don't you step back and "chill".

You need to leave this thread right now. TOTALLY off-topic. THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT POLITICS


Everything is about POLITICS.

I could care less if we had treaties to protect Israel. That is a legitimate international agreement. However, the thought of Iraeli citizens from across the globe having MORE political say, influence, and representation in my OWN government than me, a ****ing loyal American citizen looking out for the best intrests of my country, is downright ludicrous, undemocratic, and against what this country is supposed to stand for.

Israelis aren't looking out for the US's best intrest. Hell, you wouldn't have seen such a hissy fit in the peace plan evacuation if that were so.

We have begun to get sucked in THEIR battles if you haven't noticed because they do whatever the hell they want and piss people off then get away with it. And now OUR country is getting blamed and disliked for it. Its like having a very *****y girlfriend pissing off a LOT of guys because she can. After a while, it starts to piss you off you aren't even welcomed in parts you were welcomed in before.

So why don't you step back and "chill".



did you get this from fat bastards brother Michael moore and farhnihit 9/11
i saw that movie and it is shit they said like 7 billion dollars or somthing they have invested in america.....7 billion that does not own anything in your country.

did you get this from fat bastards brother Michael moore and farhnihit 9/11
i saw that movie and it is shit they said like 7 billion dollars or somthing they have invested in america.....7 billion that does not own anything in your country.
Oh, goddamnit. Do you get all your information from movies and cable tv shows?

No, in regards to what you ARE talking about, I think that was about some Arab country owning a lot of American assets and government holdings/bonds. China has tons of those to. Those countries have pull because they have a LOT invested in our economy. I am talking about another nation actually INFLUENCING congressmen and representatives in voting issues that effect DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN POLICY through the lobbiest.

No other country has it to my knowledge outside of Israel which has the SECOND biggest special intrest group right behind the AARP.

I am talking about SPECIAL INTREST GROUPS/ORGANZIATIONS.

Top 5 Washington lobbiest groups:

1. AARP
2. American Israel Public Affairs Committe
3. AFL-CIO (Workers union)
4. National Federation of Independent Business
5. Association of Trial Lawyers of America
(Source- "Politics in America" Thomas R. Dye fifth edition)

Now I ask you ACTUAL patriotic Americans. Why is it that we have a foriegn nation having MORE political say than an organization that is a worker's union AND Business lobbiest grouip? The only organization bigger than ****ing Israel's is the AARP. This is damned insane and it effects our foreign policy to suit ISRAEL'S intrests. Not the average Americans.

did you get this from fat bastards brother Michael moore and farhnihit 9/11
i saw that movie and it is shit they said like 7 billion dollars or somthing they have invested in america.....7 billion that does not own anything in your country.


Dear Moronovia,
Actually, the country spoken of by Moore, in his film, is Suadi Arabia.
In this instance, Moore is absolutely correct.

how is he correct?

how is he correct?


Becuase the Suadis have invested billions in corporations in the United States.
In fact..the Saudi Arabian Embassy, is the only foreign embassy, to enjoy protection by the Secret Service.

I could care less if we had treaties to protect Israel. That is a legitimate international agreement. However, the thought of Iraeli citizens from across the globe having MORE political say, influence, and representation in my OWN government than me, a ****ing loyal American citizen looking out for the best intrests of my country, is downright ludicrous, undemocratic, and against what this country is supposed to stand for.

Israelis aren't looking out for the US's best intrest. Hell, you wouldn't have seen such a hissy fit in the peace plan evacuation if that were so.

We have begun to get sucked in THEIR battles if you haven't noticed because they do whatever the hell they want and piss people off then get away with it. And now OUR country is getting blamed and disliked for it. Its like having a very *****y girlfriend pissing off a LOT of guys because she can. After a while, it starts to piss you off you aren't even welcomed in parts you were welcomed in before.

So why don't you step back and "chill".

You expect them to sit back while palestinians and other Arabs murder their peeps left and right ? I dont.

Sorry, I agree to disagree there. I think America needs to help them defend themselves. And I think we need to be more pro-active instead of reactive in it.

For peace they are giving up what they took in a ware waged against them. If the terrorists dont stop now. Then what I think will be proven true..

http://www.fahrenhype911.com/


look at this sir......and how can you respect a fat bastard like Moore he makes millions making fun of the U.S. calling the terroreists crusaders and saying there is no terrorest threat *cough london cough*



i saw both movies fahrenhiet and fahrenhype 9/11 so pass a jugement when you see both movies.

Look, every post you've made on here is off topic. You're hijacking this thread to bitch about Israel. If you continue, you will be reported to the mods.
I made only one. Everything else was in response to a question made. For instance, you asked me if I got my info out of Moore. What I did was clarify in response to your post. Any OTHER post I make that is off topic, will only be because SOMEONE asked me a question or to offer a comment/rebuttle to another reply.

If you do NOT want me to make any more off topic remarks, do not ask or comment in regards to the information I post. I will in turn NOT make a following post.

Oh, goddamnit. Do you get all your information from movies and cable tv shows?

No, in regards to what you ARE talking about, I think that was about some Arab country owning a lot of American assets and government holdings/bonds. China has tons of those to. Those countries have pull because they have a LOT invested in our economy. I am talking about another nation actually INFLUENCING congressmen and representatives in voting issues that effect DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN POLICY through the lobbiest.

No other country has it to my knowledge outside of Israel which has the SECOND biggest special intrest group right behind the AARP.

I am talking about SPECIAL INTREST GROUPS/ORGANZIATIONS.

Top 5 Washington lobbiest groups:

1. AARP
2. American Israel Public Affairs Committe
3. AFL-CIO (Workers union)
4. National Federation of Independent Business
5. Association of Trial Lawyers of America
(Source- "Politics in America" Thomas R. Dye fifth edition)

Now I ask you ACTUAL patriotic Americans. Why is it that we have a foriegn nation having MORE political say than an organization that is a worker's union AND Business lobbiest grouip? The only organization bigger than ****ing Israel's is the AARP. This is damned insane and it effects our foreign policy to suit ISRAEL'S intrests. Not the average Americans.

Sorry, Im not ready to jump on the lets kill all jews bandwagon.

Actually killing of jews was the only thing I dont understand of WW2 in Germany. it was a stupid move on their part. Not to mention inhumane. But just plain logic it was dumb.

All I know is the nation of Israel needs to get their damned hands out of America's legislative branch. Why the hell are they even allowed to have a special intrest group in America?

Since when does being mainstream Jewish have anything to do with being Israeli?

I'm Jewish and I find your assumptions about me offensive.

You expect them to sit back while palestinians and other Arabs murder their peeps left and right ? I dont.

Sorry, I agree to disagree there. I think America needs to help them defend themselves. And I think we need to be more pro-active instead of reactive in it.

For peace they are giving up what they took in a ware waged against them. If the terrorists dont stop now. Then what I think will be proven true..

And WE are somehow ****ing responsible for the ruckus they caused? We saved their ass in WW2. You need to get the concept that THEY did EVERYTHING to make these circumstances as they are now and now they are only dragging us into a never ending conflict. Before WW2 and shortly after, we had GREAT relations with the mideast untill Israelis started moving in on land that frankly wasn't theirs and we supported it because we felt sorry. I highly doubt there would even be a war on terror had we just made "new Israel" in Germany. It was the nazi's that boned them. Not us, or the Palestinians.

And they have NO right over our representatives over our own citizens. I'm sorry, but I was born and raised American and I want the best for US. I KNOW how this country was intended to work and it wasn't designed to incorporate foreign nation's buying off our representatives.

Sorry, Im not ready to jump on the lets kill all jews bandwagon.

Actually killing of jews was the only thing I dont understand of WW2 in Germany. it was a stupid move on their part. Not to mention inhumane. But just plain logic it was dumb.

What are you? Five years old? Where the hell did you get "lets kill all the jews"? Perhaps you've been watching to many Palestinian propaganda on fox news. I specifically underlined the word "Israel" for you for a reason (mostly hoping even dumb posters would pick up on). Clearly that isn't enough emphisis for you to pick up on the subject properly however.

What I am talking about is kicking out a foreign nation's influence in OUR nation's law making branch. I do not know how you equate that with "kill the jews" but I think you need some help.

Since when does being mainstream Jewish have anything to do with being Israeli?

I'm Jewish and I find your assumptions about me offensive.

You are JEWISH. Not ISRAELI. But if you are Israeli which is the issue i'm bringing up, then your opinion doesn't much in MY country. Oh wait, that's right. Your country is buying off my representatives.

If your American citizen however who happens to be Jewish, this issue has NOTHING to do with you. They are your representatives too.

no the soviets did the killed the germans in stalingrad in winter '42-'43 and drove them back all the way to berlin by themselfs.

no the soviets did the killed the germans in stalingrad in winter '42-'43 and drove them back all the way to berlin by themselfs.
I did say "we". You can take it in any context you like. However the western allies liberated many Jewish people in concentration camps.

You are JEWISH, not ISRAELI, but if you are Israeli (which is the issue i'm bringing up) then your opinion doesn't (matter) much in MY country. Oh wait, that's right (it does!), (because) your country is buying off my representatives.

If you're American citizen who happens to be Jewish however, then this issue has NOTHING to do with you. They are your representatives too.

Uhh, I'm British actually. Nice two-tone view you have there. :rolleyes:

So yeah, if you admit there is no connection between being Jewish and being Israeli (As you have in the quote above) then why the hell are you bringing up Israel in a thread about Judaism?

I took the liberty of correcting your grammar and spelling, still doesn't make much sense though.

Americai...i think i know why people hate america....it is because of people like you who think they know everything...every small detail....and frankly you wont shut your mouth you stupid racist bastard....hate the "ISRAELI" goverment but you are insulting every "ISRAELI" for no good reason....because people ohhhh sooo want to here your stupid remarkes....why dont you join the goverment instead of staying in your basement thinking of new ways to piss people off!

And WE are somehow ****ing responsible for the ruckus they caused? We saved their ass in WW2. You need to get the concept that THEY did EVERYTHING to make these circumstances as they are now and now they are only dragging us into a never ending conflict. Before WW2 and shortly after, we had GREAT relations with the mideast untill Israelis started moving in on land that frankly wasn't theirs and we supported it because we felt sorry. I highly doubt there would even be a war on terror had we just made "new Israel" in Germany. It was the nazi's that boned them. Not us, or the Palestinians.

And they have NO right over our representatives over our own citizens. I'm sorry, but I was born and raised American and I want the best for US. I KNOW how this country was intended to work and it wasn't designed to incorporate foreign nation's buying off our representatives.

Excuse me? The so-called "war on terror" was started because the American People were scared and George W. Bush pushed us farther so that our "representatives" had to do whatever our Commander-and-thief said to.

Uhh, I'm British actually. Nice two-tone view you have there. :rolleyes:

So yeah, if you admit there is no connection between being Jewish and being Israeli (As you have in the quote above) then why the hell are you bringing up Israel in a thread about Judaism?

I took the liberty of correcting your grammar and spelling, still doesn't make much sense though.

A foreign nation has nothing to do with controlling our national intrests. How would you like it (or how do you like it) if/when America buys off your represenatives and overrides your represenation and.. oh.. gets your country in a war it doesn't need?

And for future reference for you Israel = Citizen of Israel. Jewish = Being apart of the Jewish religion. I took the liberty in correcting you.

Americai...i think i know why people hate america....it is because of people like you who think they know everything...every small detail....and frankly you wont shut your mouth you stupid racist bastard....hate the "ISRAELI" goverment but you are insulting every "ISRAELI" for no good reason....because people ohhhh sooo want to here your stupid remarkes....why dont you join the goverment instead of staying in your basement thinking of new ways to piss people off!

People hate America because we don't mind our damned business and don't let people just **** themselves. I'm not racist. I know its easy for you to think that because you can go to sleep at night much easier by blowing people of who have legitimate grievences, but the real truth is I have no quarrel with regular people of different faiths. Hell, I'd date a cute Jewish girl. I simply do NOT like what ISRAEL is doing. Just damned governments boning us for their own intrests in my own damned goverment. I'm just intrested in keeping our country from going to hell because everybody is giving more money to corrupt politicians. So take your "oh, I hate you America" crap elsewhere. I could careless.

Excuse me? The so-called "war on terror" was started because the American People were scared and George W. Bush pushed us farther so that our "representatives" had to do whatever our Commander-and-thief said to.

It started long before that. LONG before that. There were attacks before 9/11 if I need to remind you.

The basement bombing of the World Trade towers, and the USS Cole for example. 9/11 was really just a wake up call on OUR side to treat it like a legitimate threat priority.

geeze, some of you people are so idiotic!
Americai is just saying that he finds it NOT F***ING normal that a foreign country has so much power in his country! and that foreign country happens to be Israel so you're all screaming out "racist" like stupid idiots.
how lame is that?! we arent allowed to say anything about the horrors Irsael is committing every day because if we do we'd be considered racist by people like you (which means practically everyone... which is why the world isnt advancing much in that sense)...
well, i'll tell you what ; you're the racists. yes, there's an expression we use in france : "positive discrimination". its the worst form of racism in a sense that, in your subconscience, you'll like someone or you'll feel pity for someone just for his different racial origin (mainly used for black, arab and jewish people).

and Americai has a point when saying that the arab world hates the US for the support they give to Israel (among other reasons.. i'll give you that).

Now you guys should stop whinning like idiots, and what i noticed in this thread and all the time in real life, is that often a non-Israeli jew feels aimed at when someone critisizes Israel. why the hell does that hurt YOU? you're not Israeli! why do you prefer Israel to your real country? thats totally not normal. some of you people need a serious change in mentality, and you especially need to open your eyes a little instead of sitting their like stupid sheep.

EDIT : cursing forbidded?

A foreign nation has nothing to do with controlling our national intrests. How would you like it (or how do you like it) if/when America buys off your represenatives and overrides your represenation and.. oh.. gets your country in a war it doesn't need?

I don't like it, but I don't blame, oh let's say the Christian Religious Right, I blame the US government.


And for future reference for you, Israeli = Citizen of Israel. Jewish = Being a part of the Jewish religion. I took the liberty of correcting you.
You misunderstand, obviously. I was asking why you're continually equating the aims of Judaism & Israel, and you play ignorant, not cool dude.



I simply do NOT like what ISRAEL is doing.
Fine, then blame the Israeli government, not me.

The basement bombing of the World Trade towers, and the USS Cole for example. 9/11 was really just a wake up call on OUR side to treat it like a legitimate threat priority.

Yes.

And instead of doing just that..we invaded Iraq, instead.

geeze, some of you people are so idiotic!
Americai is just saying that he finds it NOT FUCKING normal that a foreign country has so much power in his country! and that foreign country happens to be Israel so you're all screaming out "racist" like stupid idiots.
how lame is that?! we arent allowed to say anything about the horrors Irsael is committing every day because if we do we'd be considered racist by people like you (which means practically everyone... which is why the world isnt advancing much in that sense)...
well, i'll tell you what ; you're the racists. yes, there's an expression we use in france : "positive discrimination". its the worst form of racism in a sense that, in your subconscience, you'll like someone or you'll feel pity for someone just for his different racial origin (mainly used for black, arab and jewish people).

and Americai has a point when saying that the arab world hates the US for the support they give to Israel (among other reasons.. i'll give you that).

Now you guys should stop whinning like idiots, and what i noticed in this thread and all the time in real life, is that often a non-Israeli jew feels aimed at when someone critisizes Israel. why the hell does that hurt YOU? you're not Israeli! why do you prefer Israel to your real country? thats totally not normal. some of you people need a serious change in mentality, and you especially need to open your eyes a little instead of sitting their like stupid sheep.

Thank you Hyperberia for understanding my point! Unfortunately however Lafayette will forever be my favorite French compatriot. ;)

I don't like it, but I don't blame, oh let's say the Christian Religious Right, I blame the US government.


You misunderstand, obviously. I was asking why you're continually equating the aims of Judaism & Israel, and you play ignorant, not cool dude.



Fine, then blame the Israeli government, not me.
In this regard, I am a persont that blames the Christian right and Neo-con element who have control.

Secondly, I have NO quarrel with JEWISH people. The nation of Israel however has set up an organization that has far to much control of our congressment which overrides OUR wishes. I consider a Jewish American like say Mel Brooks to be my FAVORITE comedy director and I would be at ****ING AWE to meet him in person and tell him how much I appreciate his movies.

Suddenly I turn around and get blamed as a racist because I see Israel controlling our government in regards to national securty? The hell is up with you fools?

Thirdly, I DID BLAME THE ISRAEL GOVERNMENT. Oh my god, I even underlined ISRAEL. There is a ****ing difference. What do you want me to call them those people which have a capital called Jerusalem in their nation?

Yes.

And instead of doing just that..we invaded Iraq, instead.

Yeah, I didn't agree with it to BEGIN with. Why? Article 1 states CONGRESS must declare war. Bush did. It rubbed me the wrong way to begin with. I'm rather rigid when it comes to the Constitution on the very serious issues that are clearly outlined.

But if you ARE going to complain, because most of America supported the war, they need to DEAL with it. The biggest demand Americans need to do is make sure a President can't pull this crap again and make sure the War Powers Act is ENFORCED.

So take your "oh, I hate you America" crap elsewhere. I could careless.

you missunderstand

never said i hate america i support the war....and when i am old enough (3 more years) i am going to join the army...i am canadian but the canadian army sucks so.... i am goin to america to join.

why....well for two reasons to pay for education and also for the experiance.



*********************************************************

I want to ask a question but i dont want to seem stupid soooo where does the hat come from i mean in a religious way not "made in china" way

how do you defend......piss them off until they give up



in the clasical sence means that even a janitor can be a defender of justice.so stop making your life seem more important then it prob is.your rasism is uncalled for delete this thread and make a new one....i am sorry to whoever made this thread that it got ruined by many of us (including me) who got carried away.


and yet still at the end he thinks he made perfect sence that no one else could be righter then him.he still thinks that he did something worth talking about....and does not have the desincy to say sorry for whatever...that is the worst part.

Secondly, I have NO quarrel with JEWISH people....Suddenly I turn around and get blamed as a racist because I see Israel controlling our government in regards to national securty? The hell is up with you fools?

You're equating Israel with Judaism again. I find it very insulting, because I'm sure you're capable of understanding what you're doing here.


Thirdly, I DID BLAME THE ISRAEL GOVERNMENT. Oh my god, I even underlined ISRAEL. There is a ****ing difference. What do you want me to call them those people which have a capital called Jerusalem in their nation?

It's not called JEWsalem dude, and please work on your spelling & grammar because it's getting worse the more you type, making your opinions even harder to understand.

Incidentally, you did not blame the Israeli Government, you blamed Israel and you directly equated Israel's aims with all Judaism.

thank you for proving my point to the man

thank you for proving my point to the man

Oh I'm sure we'll lock horns again later... :headbang: :mp5: