NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi there.

Some of you may know me. I'm not an NS poster, but I play one on TV.

Anyway, I'm a religious man. Just saying that conjures up plenty of notions in whomever happens to be reading this right now. "Religious Man" almost sounds like a super hero, eh? Well, maybe not.

Let me clarify. I believe in God. Not just any old god, mind you, but the one they talk about in all those old stuffy books that so many around these parts like to call fiction. That's fine, I suppose. Maybe it is fiction. Maybe I'm just deluding myself, but so long as it's just myself being deluded, I don't see why it's a problem. Maybe the Atheists would like to save me from myself, but I have to say good luck to that. You can only save a person from themself by killing them.

Anyway, and I digress. I was thinking about this whole god thing. Like I said, I'm a religious man. So religious, in fact, that I am willing to give up the one gift the Almighty gave us - Free Will(tm) - just so I can please this great deity even more.

For those who don't know, I am a Muslim. To many of the uninitiated, that means I practise Islam and give my will up to Allah. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Oh would that it were that simple. I still want to enjoy a BLT, I still see a pretty woman - who isn't my wife - and may cast a lustful eye upon her, I still see a bottle of Vodka and think how good that would be in a shot glass with a lime soda chaser. Is this the will of Allah? Were I to give myself over completely, my eye would go blind whenever a woman other than my wife entered my view - at least ... according to those musty old tomes, that's how it would work.

That's not how it works, though, is it?

Unfortunately, we're saddled with a horrible notion: God helps those who help themselves. It's a very Jewish notion and I, being a Jew, have been exposed to it my whole life. So many people I've met take this to mean that God doesn't really give a flying fuck ... He wants us to deal with our own crap.

Not really true. I think it more means that the extent to which we help ourselves, God will help us. I saw in a signature (I think it was Drunk Commies, but it comes from an old Emo Phillips routine) where a guy prays for a new bike, but realises God doesn't work like that so he steals a bike a prays for forgiveness. That's funny stuff, people, laugh it up.

So now I'm getting to the point of this rambling post.

I got an email earlier. An email from a "Muslim" group (that's deliberate quotes, folks) who has explained to me that as a Muslim, I am obligated to ensure within my home certian things. These things included, but are not limited to, various weaponry and incindiary devices.

In short, I have been approached by what some of you more conservative types may call a "terrorist group" who are right here in the good ol' US of A who may be willing to fund for me a small arsenal to be kept and sheltered for an "upcoming event".

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.

Muslim to Muslim, turn them in. You'll be doing a lot better.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.

straight up - Jesus would turn them in - they are (we assume) seeking to do wrong to innocent people and through their capture more can be learned about similar groups/who funds them/who leads them that could lead to the preservation of life which should be the goal of ever human being

regardless of faith, a group contacting you based on your religion and suggesting that you keep high-grade armament inside your home for an "event" is not something you should go along with. I would turn them in - these groups are the ones that give islam as a whole a bad rep.

Not sure how the rest of the post relates to your question, but its good stuff.

As to the question, you're not going to be able to convince them that what they're doing is wrong. Not if they're going as far as they're going. And just as god helps those who help themselves, god punishes people through the law. Turn them in. Show them what it means to be a real muslim, not just a crazed US-hater.

I got an email earlier. An email from a "Muslim" group (that's deliberate quotes, folks) who has explained to me that as a Muslim, I am obligated to ensure within my home certian things. These things included, but are not limited to, various weaponry and incindiary devices.

In short, I have been approached by what some of you more conservative types may call a "terrorist group" who are right here in the good ol' US of A who may be willing to fund for me a small arsenal to be kept and sheltered for an "upcoming event".

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.


Now listen here, it does not matter if you’re a “religious man” or if you think they have a chance for redemption! You had better go immediately to the proper authorities and turn those fanatics in (show some loyalty to the country that allows you to worship freely).

If you do not then you are a traitor!

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.

Here's the problem, there is a potential that this group intends to harm others. Though your belief is that they should have a chance for redemption you need to consider a couple of factors.

1. Their intentions might have been either set, brainwashed, or not as stable as yours. You need to remember that regular Muslims in America would dissent, not instigate violent actions. I hate dubbya as well, but that is why people must organized appropriately and be INVOLVED in the system. Thus, you must consider the level of commitment that cell has in committing IMMORAL ACTS

2. America's make up isn't just a bunch of white folks and jews controlling everything. Though you may dislike the government (I for instance want a greatly minimized government that is kept in check, and have it stripped of its corrupt entities), I'm a hispanic male from deep south texas that has NO quarrel with peacefull muslims and even do business with them as I work for a living. A PEACEFUL living. I am a native citizen. We need to look out for one another here. Hello, we are fellow citizens and some neighborly vigilance is a GOOD thing. More acts of terrorism here only makes citizens more paranoid if anything.

Just remember, one course you should be taking is consult with your local Muslim religious leaders about this issue first. Its a shame you do put your religion's members over other fellow citizens and the republic first, but its only natural for humans I guess. In anycase, trying to convince this group out of the kindness of your heart alone is a VERY unwise decision without some advice from some local or even national religious groups' support. You very well might be putting yourself at unnecessary risk just by replying. Not only from them, but the government by associating yourself with them due to the "patriot act" (which is basicly unconstitutional if anything) since you left an electronic trail making you someone who has associated himself with that group . You need some information first, thus why you should seek out people you can trust.

Ask yourself this. Would the Prophet have stored weapons for an upcoming event against unarmed civilians?

They have closed their mind to his teachings. They have chosen their path and will pay for their actions.

Would a Muslim allow a guest in his home to be harmed by another Muslim? Would a Muslim allow an unarmed innocent be harmed by another Muslim?

These people stopped being Muslims when they decided to practice violence against people that did them no harm.

Their actions will only further hatred against Islam and it will only add to the justifications for the transgressions of this President.

The road to violence is easy. The road to pease is not.

The road to violence is easy. The road to pease is not.

Stop the Violins
Visualize Whirled Peas.

Assuming it happened to me (I've replaced Muslim with Catholic to make it more relatable) I wouldn't turn them in.

To betray the confidence of another Catholic is an unthinkable evil I could not condone.

However, as an American you must. The freedom and hope that America stands must be preserved against harm. And it is your duty to do so.

This may mean damnation in one form or another, however the price of freedom is not small.

Ps. Though a may not be much of a Catholic, and certainly no Muslim. I will pray for wisdom and light a candle St Stephens.

How do you think Allah will feel, if these people do something stupid and hurt people, and you did nothing?

"All that is required for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

Something about this reeks to high altitudes. Sounds like some kind of set-up of the domestic security type. Checking you out rather boldly. Maybe you should seriously discuss this with a lawyer if you want sound advice.

Something about this reeks to high altitudes. Sounds like some kind of set-up of the domestic security type. Checking you out rather boldly. Maybe you should seriously discuss this with a lawyer if you want sound advice.
What a great first reaction. :rolleyes:

"Oh! It MUST'VE been the government trying to get you arrested!"

I mean...c'mon...think more optimistically that MAYBE this isn't an American out to get another American. Then again thinking this optimistically means that there's a Muslim out there wanting to kill Americans...huh...

*contradicts self and explodes*

Well, the second reaction of the two, talking to a lawyer, isn't such a bad idea, anyway. :rolleyes:

Hi there.


Wow, what a situation! I guess your mind would be quite a whirlwind right now. Loyalties, what is right and what is wrong, what will happen to you? Dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.

I am neither muslim, nor American. I am Australian and Christian. In Aussie culture, it is a very bad thing to turn in your mates, even if they are clearly in the wrong. This is even more important if your mates share the same belief system. However, in my belief system, it is never right to do a wrong in order to do a right. That is what I believe Jesus would say.
But I believe that there comes a time when each person has to make choices, particularly when your culture tells you one thing, and your belief system another. I think I would feel really terrible about turning in some of my fellow believers. And yet I would have to keep coming back to this conclusion, so long as I thought that what my fellow believers were doing was wrong.
Seems like you consider terrorism to be wrong. Then you ought to act in a way that follows what is right. If you do not turn them in, you are protecting them, allowing them to contact the next person on their list, unhindered. Your choice right now will determine whose side you are on. If you believe that Islam is not a terrorist religion, then act. Get that lawyer, or whatever. But don't put it off, for that is the same as hiding them.

I'm afraid I can't empathise with you, Keruvalia. I would have no hesitation in raising concerns such as these with authorities regardless of any threat of divine retribution simply because it's my belief that Any God who would punish an empathetic act is not worth following, regardless of any promise of Salvation or reward.

That's all there is to it. Do what is right for your fellow man; stuff Salvation. That is the ultimate act of self-sacrifice, and if Allah were to frown upon that, then he is an evil being that should be rejected.

Hi there.

Some of you may know me. I'm not an NS poster, but I play one on TV.

Anyway, I'm a religious man. Just saying that conjures up plenty of notions in whomever happens to be reading this right now. "Religious Man" almost sounds like a super hero, eh? Well, maybe not.

Let me clarify. I believe in God. Not just any old god, mind you, but the one they talk about in all those old stuffy books that so many around these parts like to call fiction. That's fine, I suppose. Maybe it is fiction. Maybe I'm just deluding myself, but so long as it's just myself being deluded, I don't see why it's a problem. Maybe the Atheists would like to save me from myself, but I have to say good luck to that. You can only save a person from themself by killing them.

Anyway, and I digress. I was thinking about this whole god thing. Like I said, I'm a religious man. So religious, in fact, that I am willing to give up the one gift the Almighty gave us - Free Will(tm) - just so I can please this great deity even more.

For those who don't know, I am a Muslim. To many of the uninitiated, that means I practise Islam and give my will up to Allah. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Oh would that it were that simple. I still want to enjoy a BLT, I still see a pretty woman - who isn't my wife - and may cast a lustful eye upon her, I still see a bottle of Vodka and think how good that would be in a shot glass with a lime soda chaser. Is this the will of Allah? Were I to give myself over completely, my eye would go blind whenever a woman other than my wife entered my view - at least ... according to those musty old tomes, that's how it would work.

That's not how it works, though, is it?

Unfortunately, we're saddled with a horrible notion: God helps those who help themselves. It's a very Jewish notion and I, being a Jew, have been exposed to it my whole life. So many people I've met take this to mean that God doesn't really give a flying fuck ... He wants us to deal with our own crap.

Not really true. I think it more means that the extent to which we help ourselves, God will help us. I saw in a signature (I think it was Drunk Commies, but it comes from an old Emo Phillips routine) where a guy prays for a new bike, but realises God doesn't work like that so he steals a bike a prays for forgiveness. That's funny stuff, people, laugh it up.

So now I'm getting to the point of this rambling post.

I got an email earlier. An email from a "Muslim" group (that's deliberate quotes, folks) who has explained to me that as a Muslim, I am obligated to ensure within my home certian things. These things included, but are not limited to, various weaponry and incindiary devices.

In short, I have been approached by what some of you more conservative types may call a "terrorist group" who are right here in the good ol' US of A who may be willing to fund for me a small arsenal to be kept and sheltered for an "upcoming event".

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.
For what it's worth I say tell the police. Advocating terrorism may land them in prison for a few years, but that prison term may save lives, and it will give the extremists time to reflect on whether or not they were doing the right thing with their lives.

Anyway, if you really beleive in Islam, and you really beleive that killing civilians, perhaps killing yourself at the same time is against Islam, you have a duty to turn them in so that they don't die with such sins on their heads, no?

As a Muslim myself, I say this to you,

The Qur'an says saving a life will be like saving all of humanity and killing a life is like killing all of humanity.

By turning these people in you will be saving lives. Turn them in and you will be performing a greater good.


Peace

Keruvalia, as a pacifist I hope you alert the proper authorities. I understand your dilema, but as far as I am concerned, a group that seeks to harm people does not deserve the title of "religious".

Fanaticism is not religion.

Hi there.

Some of you may know me. I'm not an NS poster, but I play one on TV.

Anyway, I'm a religious man. Just saying that conjures up plenty of notions in whomever happens to be reading this right now. "Religious Man" almost sounds like a super hero, eh? Well, maybe not.

Let me clarify. I believe in God. Not just any old god, mind you, but the one they talk about in all those old stuffy books that so many around these parts like to call fiction. That's fine, I suppose. Maybe it is fiction. Maybe I'm just deluding myself, but so long as it's just myself being deluded, I don't see why it's a problem. Maybe the Atheists would like to save me from myself, but I have to say good luck to that. You can only save a person from themself by killing them.

Anyway, and I digress. I was thinking about this whole god thing. Like I said, I'm a religious man. So religious, in fact, that I am willing to give up the one gift the Almighty gave us - Free Will(tm) - just so I can please this great deity even more.

For those who don't know, I am a Muslim. To many of the uninitiated, that means I practise Islam and give my will up to Allah. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Oh would that it were that simple. I still want to enjoy a BLT, I still see a pretty woman - who isn't my wife - and may cast a lustful eye upon her, I still see a bottle of Vodka and think how good that would be in a shot glass with a lime soda chaser. Is this the will of Allah? Were I to give myself over completely, my eye would go blind whenever a woman other than my wife entered my view - at least ... according to those musty old tomes, that's how it would work.

That's not how it works, though, is it?

Unfortunately, we're saddled with a horrible notion: God helps those who help themselves. It's a very Jewish notion and I, being a Jew, have been exposed to it my whole life. So many people I've met take this to mean that God doesn't really give a flying fuck ... He wants us to deal with our own crap.

Not really true. I think it more means that the extent to which we help ourselves, God will help us. I saw in a signature (I think it was Drunk Commies, but it comes from an old Emo Phillips routine) where a guy prays for a new bike, but realises God doesn't work like that so he steals a bike a prays for forgiveness. That's funny stuff, people, laugh it up.

So now I'm getting to the point of this rambling post.

I got an email earlier. An email from a "Muslim" group (that's deliberate quotes, folks) who has explained to me that as a Muslim, I am obligated to ensure within my home certian things. These things included, but are not limited to, various weaponry and incindiary devices.

In short, I have been approached by what some of you more conservative types may call a "terrorist group" who are right here in the good ol' US of A who may be willing to fund for me a small arsenal to be kept and sheltered for an "upcoming event".

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.


Turn them in....

While forgiveness is definitely a positive aspect of your psyche; forgiveness does not extend to a level whereby one should stand idly by while another party wills to act in harm to others.

Fuck an "event" didn't some security agency say terrorists where planing an "event"?

If it make's you feel better tring to convince them not to then try that but it won't work, then turn them in knowing that you gave them a chance.

Regardless of petty ideas of nationalism (doing something 'for England' is not a motivator for me) you are human first and foremost. Your job is to look after your species. American, Muslim, all these other identities get in the way of the important thing, Humanity.

Right now, these guys act to the detriment of all, the US is not a corrupt theocracy yet but their actions only push that event closer to the realms of possibility. You'd do Islam a favour by turning them in.

I would advise consulting your imam though, he'd be able to give proper theological guidance if that's what you are after.

Hi there.

Some of you may know me. I'm not an NS poster, but I play one on TV.

Anyway, I'm a religious man. Just saying that conjures up plenty of notions in whomever happens to be reading this right now. "Religious Man" almost sounds like a super hero, eh? Well, maybe not.

Let me clarify. I believe in God. Not just any old god, mind you, but the one they talk about in all those old stuffy books that so many around these parts like to call fiction. That's fine, I suppose. Maybe it is fiction. Maybe I'm just deluding myself, but so long as it's just myself being deluded, I don't see why it's a problem. Maybe the Atheists would like to save me from myself, but I have to say good luck to that. You can only save a person from themself by killing them.

Anyway, and I digress. I was thinking about this whole god thing. Like I said, I'm a religious man. So religious, in fact, that I am willing to give up the one gift the Almighty gave us - Free Will(tm) - just so I can please this great deity even more.

For those who don't know, I am a Muslim. To many of the uninitiated, that means I practise Islam and give my will up to Allah. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Oh would that it were that simple. I still want to enjoy a BLT, I still see a pretty woman - who isn't my wife - and may cast a lustful eye upon her, I still see a bottle of Vodka and think how good that would be in a shot glass with a lime soda chaser. Is this the will of Allah? Were I to give myself over completely, my eye would go blind whenever a woman other than my wife entered my view - at least ... according to those musty old tomes, that's how it would work.

That's not how it works, though, is it?

Unfortunately, we're saddled with a horrible notion: God helps those who help themselves. It's a very Jewish notion and I, being a Jew, have been exposed to it my whole life. So many people I've met take this to mean that God doesn't really give a flying fuck ... He wants us to deal with our own crap.

Not really true. I think it more means that the extent to which we help ourselves, God will help us. I saw in a signature (I think it was Drunk Commies, but it comes from an old Emo Phillips routine) where a guy prays for a new bike, but realises God doesn't work like that so he steals a bike a prays for forgiveness. That's funny stuff, people, laugh it up.

So now I'm getting to the point of this rambling post.

I got an email earlier. An email from a "Muslim" group (that's deliberate quotes, folks) who has explained to me that as a Muslim, I am obligated to ensure within my home certian things. These things included, but are not limited to, various weaponry and incindiary devices.

In short, I have been approached by what some of you more conservative types may call a "terrorist group" who are right here in the good ol' US of A who may be willing to fund for me a small arsenal to be kept and sheltered for an "upcoming event".

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.
send the email to your local FBI office. they are probably already familiar with it since odds are they are the ones who sent it to you.

Considering that you've already publicly disclosed that you've been contacted by a terrorist group, not turning them in might get you charged with conspiracy, or make you an accessory to the crime. I'm not sure which because I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you have much of a choice at this point.

I'd take the weapons then sell them on the black market, selling them back to the terrorists. Then they'd give me back the same weapons to 'hold on to' again.

Then I'd sell them again.

Either that or I'D TURN THEM THE FUCK IN RIGHT NOW.

By the way guys, is it not possible that Keruvalia is in fact acting as a Police front, probing into the hotbed of political agitation that exists on this board, hoping to catch a fish?

Hell, I guess I could also be a terrorist-seeker, and I've been marking down everything that's been said here... even by myself! Oooooh!

I'd take the weapons then sell them on the black market, selling them back to the terrorists. Then they'd give me back the same weapons to 'hold on to' again.

Then I'd sell them again.

Either that or I'D TURN THEM THE FUCK IN RIGHT NOW.

By the way guys, is it not possible that Keruvalia is in fact acting as a Police front, probing into the hotbed of political agitation that exists on this board, hoping to catch a fish?

Hell, I guess I could also be a terrorist-seeker, and I've been marking down everything that's been said here... even by myself! Oooooh!
NS general forum is monitored occasionally by players who lurk and read rather than post. Keruvalia isn't one of them.

Or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm trying to look cool by hinting that I know something you don't.

Kinda leaves you guessing, doesn't it?


Actually I'm full of shit. I don't know anything about whether or not this forum is being watched.

And now ... an update.

I reported it.

I spent about an hour with the local constable, who asked me some questions, read the email, took a bunch of notes, and made some phone calls. Then, a couple of state troopers showed up and did the exact same stuff. Even asked me the same questions.

Then the Feds came.

For those of you who have never dealt with the FBI, all the rumors are true. They are humorless robots. They had no problem drinking my coffee, though, generously offered by my wife.

The Feds asked me a lot of questions. I mean ... a lot. Strange questions, too. At one point, and I kid you not, I had this conversation:

FBI: So I see by your collection that you like movies.
Me: Yeah. Escapism, I suppose. Nice to get away from things.
FBI: So you like fantasy.
Me: Ummm ... not really. I prefer reality, but it can be a bit nerve wracking sometimes.
FBI: Do you have fantasies about power? Control? Domination?
Me: No. I do not.
FBI: Then explain why you have this movie. (At this point, the Fed pulls out my copy of Minority Report. Seriously.)
Me: I have that because I like Spielberg. I'm not so much a Tom Cruise fan, but I enjoy Spielberg's directing and I think it's a great story.
FBI: So you enjoy stories about people who find crafty ways around the law.
Me: I'm not too sure this is a productive line of questioning.

And so it went.

The Feds watched my home movies. My fuckin' home movies! They examined my hard drive with a fine tooth comb. They noticed my extensive MP3 collection and noted that downloading free music is a crime. I casually mentioned that my CD collection is the only thing that rivals my movie collection and that I legally burned my own purchased CDs in electronic format so I could burn compilation CDs for myself. A lie, yes, but they didn't have a warrant. :p

The Feds talked to me for a long time. Traced all my phone calls ... my poor mother called this afternoon ... sigh. They interviewed my children.

Then, to make it all the more fun, the Secret Service paid a visit. All they wanted to know was my view on America. They asked how I voted and what I thought about Bush and his presidency.

I told them to kiss my American ass. They had no right to ask how I voted and I never once threatened any harm on the President. I told them I respected the office ... even if the man was an asshole. They seemed satisfied and left.

In short, *I* was being treated as the criminal.

I understand, though. Time of war and all that rot.

End result:

1] The FBI confiscated my passport. I can't leave the country "until this matter is sorted out". So much for my freedom to travel.

2] The FBI kept my kids up way too late.

3] I need to go to the store and buy more coffee.

4] I will "be updated" as they get more information.

*sigh*

America ...... hooray.

Oh, and no, I did not have a lawyer present and at no time was I under arrest and the FBI made it clear that I could ask them to leave or deny them access to anything at any time.

I was so co-operative that I think Bush should thank me personally.

I think I'll join Cindy at the ranch. ;)

Ooh ... and at a couple of points, I excused myself to pray.

They didn't mind.

I do appreciate that.

And now ... an update.

I reported it.

pats karuvalia on the back

you poor fellow. I totally sympathise with you (except for the part about the lie). About half way through your post I was wondering if I got it mixed up and somehow got confused between you recieving a call from a group, and you being part of a group.

So that's how you can really stuff up someone's day. Pretend that you are a terrorist group and send them an anonomous offer of weapons for sale, and then wait as they notify the authorities, and get worked over.

On the good side of it all, you did the right thing (IMO), and no matter how unpleasant it feels, at least your conscience is intact. Well done.

I was so co-operative that I think Bush should thank me personally.

I think I'll join Cindy at the ranch. ;)

I was thinking about going down to the ranch to demand that President Bush pass legislation agianst my counsin's boyfriend

hes such a jerk

In short, *I* was being treated as the criminal.

I understand, though. Time of war and all that rot.

End result:

1] The FBI confiscated my passport. I can't leave the country "until this matter is sorted out". So much for my freedom to travel.

4] I will "be updated" as they get more information.

*sigh*

America ...... hooray.

HA!! And people continue to bash communists because of their form of goverment.

Regardless, you did a good thing for humanity. You should be proud.

I was thinking about going down to the ranch to demand that President Bush pass legislation agianst my cousin's boyfriend


Well get on it! You, me, and Cindy can roast marshmallows by the glow of the media spotlight.

HA!! And people continue to bash communists because of their form of goverment.


Not me. I am a Communist. I even told the Secret Service I was a Communist. Even the FBI guy said I had balls to say that to the SS.

Jesus would turn them in

Actually, no he wouldn't. Sorry.

When Mary was being confronted by the local folks for breaking Jewish law and working on the Sabbath, Jesus stepped in and stopped them from stoning her and uttered those immortal words: Let he, who is without sin, cast the first stone.

I am not proud of what I have done. I will accept no gratitude. Yes, I may have saved some lives, but I have condemned other lives. Even if we don't think the lives I've condemned to be worth a shit, they are still part of Allah's world and Allah's plan. Not mine. Not yours. Allah's.

And now ... an update.

I reported it.

I spent about an hour with the local constable, who asked me some questions, read the email, took a bunch of notes, and made some phone calls. Then, a couple of state troopers showed up and did the exact same stuff. Even asked me the same questions.

Then the Feds came.

For those of you who have never dealt with the FBI, all the rumors are true. They are humorless robots. They had no problem drinking my coffee, though, generously offered by my wife.

The Feds asked me a lot of questions. I mean ... a lot. Strange questions, too. At one point, and I kid you not, I had this conversation:

FBI: So I see by your collection that you like movies.
Me: Yeah. Escapism, I suppose. Nice to get away from things.
FBI: So you like fantasy.
Me: Ummm ... not really. I prefer reality, but it can be a bit nerve wracking sometimes.
FBI: Do you have fantasies about power? Control? Domination?
Me: No. I do not.
FBI: Then explain why you have this movie. (At this point, the Fed pulls out my copy of Minority Report. Seriously.)
Me: I have that because I like Spielberg. I'm not so much a Tom Cruise fan, but I enjoy Spielberg's directing and I think it's a great story.
FBI: So you enjoy stories about people who find crafty ways around the law.
Me: I'm not too sure this is a productive line of questioning.

And so it went.

The Feds watched my home movies. My fuckin' home movies! They examined my hard drive with a fine tooth comb. They noticed my extensive MP3 collection and noted that downloading free music is a crime. I casually mentioned that my CD collection is the only thing that rivals my movie collection and that I legally burned my own purchased CDs in electronic format so I could burn compilation CDs for myself. A lie, yes, but they didn't have a warrant. :p

The Feds talked to me for a long time. Traced all my phone calls ... my poor mother called this afternoon ... sigh. They interviewed my children.

Then, to make it all the more fun, the Secret Service paid a visit. All they wanted to know was my view on America. They asked how I voted and what I thought about Bush and his presidency.

I told them to kiss my American ass. They had no right to ask how I voted and I never once threatened any harm on the President. I told them I respected the office ... even if the man was an asshole. They seemed satisfied and left.

In short, *I* was being treated as the criminal.

I understand, though. Time of war and all that rot.

End result:

1] The FBI confiscated my passport. I can't leave the country "until this matter is sorted out". So much for my freedom to travel.

2] The FBI kept my kids up way too late.

3] I need to go to the store and buy more coffee.

4] I will "be updated" as they get more information.

*sigh*

America ...... hooray.

Damned bro. Just be VERY glad you didn't contact those guys. You'd be in even more trouble. In hindsight, it would have been better had you also gotten some advice from national respected Muslim organizations. They might have prepped you for this whole fiasco, hell they might have even turned them in for you bypassing this whole infringing in your property.

(By the way, did you ask them if anybody was named Mulder or Scully?)

Actually, no he wouldn't. Sorry.

When Mary was being confronted by the local folks for breaking Jewish law and working on the Sabbath, Jesus stepped in and stopped them from stoning her and uttered those immortal words: Let he, who is without sin, cast the first stone.

I am not proud of what I have done. I will accept no gratitude. Yes, I may have saved some lives, but I have condemned other lives. Even if we don't think the lives I've condemned to be worth a shit, they are still part of Allah's world and Allah's plan. Not mine. Not yours. Allah's.The difference there is that we presume that

1) Rather than just prostitution, these people are encouraging arms stockpiling for direct use against other human beings.
2) The punishment will not involve throwing stones or other capital punishment.

If you feel that is an inaccurate and unfair assumption, I wonder why you're living there, personally. What you did was a selfless and benevolent act, and that your authorities (both earthly and divine) should make you feel guilty for your generosity is atrocious.

The lives of those people are worth more than any earthly value. So are the lives of people they would have killed. Ultimately, the only difference between handing them in now and them getting caught later would be the lives of those innocents lost in the No-Man's Land between their trench warfare with America.

I would encourage you to continue to fight for their safety by diplomatic means. I would also encourage you to continue to fight the radicalisation that strikes at the hearts of both Islam and Christianity. And I would encourage you to do so even if you think Allah would stir up his extremist followers.

I got an email earlier. An email from a "Muslim" group (that's deliberate quotes, folks) who has explained to me that as a Muslim, I am obligated to ensure within my home certian things. These things included, but are not limited to, various weaponry and incindiary devices.

In short, I have been approached by what some of you more conservative types may call a "terrorist group" who are right here in the good ol' US of A who may be willing to fund for me a small arsenal to be kept and sheltered for an "upcoming event".

What is my obligation? What would you do?

Yes, I know ... many of you will say, "Turn them in! Cut off their balls and hang their severed heads from the Statue of Liberty." Unfortunately, I don't hold that luxory. I can only feel that they may have a chance for redemption, as I am a religious man, and do not want to turn them in out of hand but would rather try to convince them that their plan of action is misguided and wrong.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.

Consult the Qur'an, fellow Muslims you trust, and Allah. I don't pretend to know enough about the situation to give more specific advice. I'm just glad you're taking this seriously. You should be.

Edit: Nevermind. Didn't read the last page thoroughly before posting.

Keru,
You did the right thing.

If these guys who sent you this e-mail are serious, then they also arent very smart.
Nothing is more dangerous than an idiot with a weapon.

More importantly, what you have done may have saved the lives of who-knows-how-many people.

Hell friend, you might just be a hero.

In all seriousness, these guys may have hurt someones children.
You just never know, and from my dim knowledge of Islam, it seems like the kind of thing they have in mind isnt exactly following a religion of peace.

Politics aside.....you shouldnt feel guilty about ratting on someone who you dont know, and may have wanted to do some very shitty things to innocent people?

In my earlier post I gave you the "All that is required for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.", speech..

What if the worst had happened, and these guys did something stupid, and people got hurt....could you have lived with yourself, knowing you may jhave been able to stop it?

I dont think you could have.

You did the right thing.

I dont think you could have.


Aye ... you're right. I don't feel guilty, but I'm not proud either.

Assuming it happened to me (I've replaced Muslim with Catholic to make it more relatable) I wouldn't turn them in.

To betray the confidence of another Catholic is an unthinkable evil I could not condone.

Um... Unless you're a priest and bound by the sanctity of the confessional, then as a Catholic it's your duty to turn them in. Nothing in the Catholic faith says you must stand by idly while another misguided Catholic does grave harm to others. Quite the opposite, in fact.

:rolleyes:

I'm not buying your original post. But if you know these whackos, don't squeal on them, they kill people..then you're an accessory to murder.

So I ask you ... what would you do? Or, for those unwilling "Jesus bless America" folks among us, what would Jesus do?

This is real ... this is a problem. Advise.
Convert to atheism!

I'm not buying your original post.

Good thing I'm not selling it, then.