NationStates Jolt Archive

Death of Iraqi brothers sparks anti-U.S. rage
http://www.antiwar.com/photos/brothers.jpg
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/GEO861510.htm

BAGHDAD, Aug 18 (Reuters) - An angry Iraqi crowd carried coffins through a Baghdad district on Thursday and threw rocks at American soldiers, accusing U.S. troops of killing three innocent middle-aged brothers, one of them in a wheelchair.

The U.S. military said they had killed three "terrorists"."They call everybody terrorists but they just commit terrorist acts whenever they want," said Mohsen Thabit, a friend of the men whom neighbours found shot in the head at home after a raid by U.S. and Iraqi troops in the Amiriya district overnight.

The bodies of Khalil, Khalid and Jamal Hussein, filmed by a neighbour, lay sprawled in their home, that of the crippled Khalil lying in the bathroom next to his wheelchair.

U.S. spokesman Major Tim Keefe confirmed U.S.-led and Iraqi forces raided a house the neighbourhood around midnight.

"The purpose of the raid was to capture and detain a kidnapping cell. A firefight ensued, and three terrorists were killed and one wounded. Weapons and explosive materials were captured," he said by e-mail in reply to a question.

Parts of Amiriya have been strongholds for Sunni Arab insurgents seeking to topple the U.S.-backed Iraqi government.

Whatever the reasons behind the incident, however, neighbours and relatives were quick to accuse Americans and the new Iraqi forces they are training of carrying out an unprovoked killing, a common complaint in a violent city and one that has fuelled resentment in many quarters towards occupying forces.

The reaction underlines how far U.S. and, now, Iraqi troops are struggling to gain public trust after two years of war.

The dead men's sister-in-law said she saw U.S. and Iraqi troops raid the house and shoot her husband's brothers.

"They shot one of my brothers-in-law in the bathroom and then they shot the other two. I was hit in the arm and foot," Noor Ali Jassim told Reuters from a hospital bed.

It was not clear if she was the wounded person referred to in the U.S. statement. She was not under guard in hospital.

Video footage taken by residents showed three bodies on the floor, including Khalil Hussein who lay face down in the bathroom near a wheelchair. Friends said the man had been unable to walk since being wounded in the war with Iran in the 1980s.

Was this rage really unexcpected?

I dont think the photo was nessesary, Ocean. There are kids that frequent these forums.

""The purpose of the raid was to capture and detain a kidnapping cell. A firefight ensued, and three terrorists were killed and one wounded. Weapons and explosive materials were captured," he (Major Tim Keefe) said by e-mail in reply to a question."

So appeasing to terrorists I see, oceandrive? :mad:

These fuckers kill our troops. I'm glad they are underneath the ground now.

These fuckers kill our troops. I'm glad they are underneath the ground now.
They wouldn't have to kill your troops nor would they kill your troops had the Bush Administration carried out the "War on Terror" the way they should have, and not conjuring up and manipulating evidence to support the PNAC's foreign policy for america.

They wouldn't have to kill your troops nor would they kill your troops had the Bush Administration carried out the "War on Terror" the way they should have, and not conjuring up and manipulating evidence to support the PNAC's foreign policy for america.

Blah blah blah blah.. keep ranting and ranting... this war was so right and so proper. We had to get rid of Saddam. Too bad we didn't eliminate him like we did with his sons. The only one twisting things is the foolish left wing.

Blah blah blah blah.. keep ranting and ranting... this war was so right and so proper. We had to get rid of Saddam. Too bad we didn't take eliminate him like we did with his sons.
Tell, me why should we be in Iraq?

Tell, me why should we be in Iraq?

Because we just should. It is better that we are helping these people instead of screwing up like we did in Rwanda by doing nothing. The do nothing crowd is wrong because their views led to the deaths of millions.

I think this is a little ridiculous. These people get angry over the US mistakenly killing other Iraqis, but don't say anything when bombers murder thousands of innocent Iraqis in their cowardly attacks. This seems more like an excuse to vent some anti-US rage than anything.

Because we just should. It is better that we are helping these people instead of screwing up like we did in Rwanda by doing nothing. The do nothing crowd is wrong because their views led to the deaths of millions.
That isn't a valid excuse, beause we should.

I think this is a little ridiculous. These people get angry over the US mistakenly killing other Iraqis, but don't say anything when bombers murder thousands of innocent Iraqis in their cowardly attacks. This seems more like an excuse to vent some anti-US rage than anything.

US soldiers "mistakenly" kills someone who is shooting AK-47 at them? And these people also have bomb materials? Is that a mistake?

That isn't a valid excuse, beause we should.

Oh it isn't an excuse. It is a reason. You see I'm one of optimism and I feel that we can stop these massacres. No more Clinton screw ups. Ever again!

""The purpose of the raid was to capture and detain a kidnapping cell. A firefight ensued, and three terrorists were killed and one wounded. Weapons and explosive materials were captured," he (Major Tim Keefe) said by e-mail in reply to a question."

So appeasing to terrorists I see, oceandrive? :mad:

These fuckers kill our troops. I'm glad they are underneath the ground now.


I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own.

US soldiers "mistakenly" kills someone who is shooting AK-47 at them? And these people also have bomb materials? Is that a mistake?

"Mistakenly" in the sense that I don't know enough about it to say for sure whether they were dangerous or not; personally, I have little doubt they were up to something, but until I'm 100% sure I'll say mistakenly.

They seem a little hypocritical in all of this; where's the condemnation of the terrorists...wait, the terrorists are Sunnis. That makes it a-ok for them to kill other Shiite Iraqis; the Sunnis treated them like scum for a long time before this.

Oh it isn't an excuse. It is a reason. You see I'm one of optimism and I feel that we can stop these massacres. No more Clinton screw ups. Ever again!


I can't believe you're gay and conservative. Or maybe you're just overly emotional (probably the case).

Because we just should. It is better that we are helping these people instead of screwing up like we did in Rwanda by doing nothing. The do nothing crowd is wrong because their views led to the deaths of millions.If views are wrong because they lead to deaths (of millions? Source please) then why do you think Bush is correct?

I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own.

In war, people die. It's unfortunate, but we don't intentionally kill civilians, and we try to keep civilian casualties to the minimum. Save that for the murdering cowards who saw off heads and blow up thousands of innocent people looking for work or simply out in the street.

Because we just should. It is better that we are helping these people instead of screwing up like we did in Rwanda by doing nothing. The do nothing crowd is wrong because their views led to the deaths of millions.


Rwanda could have been avoided, but it isn't fair to blame it on Clinton. These people were hacking their neigbors to death with Machetes, it was a popular (if there is such a thing) genocide. And also the most lethal of any genocide, ever (900,000 killed in a country of 8 million people)

If views are wrong because they lead to deaths (of millions? Source please) then why do you think Bush is correct?

I believe my views are correct. I supported this war for far different reasons. And what happened in Rwanda? Did we do anything for them?

I'm not a conservative. And so what if i'm gay? Does being gay make me have to be on the left? Stereotypes.

MCBSC: "I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own."

I can understand people who oppose this war, but if you ever fucking imply that two of my relatives should die... grr.. don't you ever dare say such a thing again! :mad:

In war, people die. It's unfortunate, but we don't intentionally kill civilians, and we try to keep civilian casualties to the minimum. Save that for the murdering cowards who saw off heads and blow up thousands of innocent people looking for work or simply out in the street.


Of course people will die, but in a just war, comparable numbers are lost on each side. The American troops are safer just leaving the people alone (not patrolling, staying in bases, etc.) There will probably be much fewer deaths on both sides, as the terrorists will have nothing to retaliate against.

Blah blah blah blah.. keep ranting and ranting... this war was so right and so proper. We had to get rid of Saddam. Too bad we didn't eliminate him like we did with his sons. The only one twisting things is the foolish left wing.
Sometimes, I wonder if you are parodying a neo-con.

Sometimes, I wonder if you are parodying a neo-con.

At least i'm not like a moonie.

Trust me, I don't like conservatives. I'm moderate but I still support the troops.

Of course people will die, but in a just war, comparable numbers are lost on each side. The American troops are safer just leaving the people alone (not patrolling, staying in bases, etc.) There will probably be much fewer deaths on both sides, as the terrorists will have nothing to retaliate against.

I'd prefer that if the Iraqis were more prepared, but we also have to take the fight to the terrorists; one of the primary reasons we're patrolling is to attract the terrorists to us and then kill or capture them, which in turn leads to their cells' leaders, and up the chain of command to their leaders, and eventually destroying the entire organization. It's a guerilla war and must be fought in that manner.

Sometimes, I wonder if you are parodying a neo-con.

Sometimes i wonder if people will ever stop dismissing others by using labels :rolleyes:

anyways, the very fact this story comes from anti-war.com kinda makes it a lil bias...

I believe my views are correct. I supported this war for far different reasons. And what happened in Rwanda? Did we do anything for them?

I'm not a conservative. And so what if i'm gay? Does being gay make me have to be on the left? Stereotypes.

MCBSC: "I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own."

I can understand people who oppose this war, but if you ever fucking imply that two of my relatives should die... grr.. don't you ever dare say such a thing again! :mad:


Like I said, overly emotional. I lived with the military for a year, and I had friends who were wounded. Death is terrible, but it must be reputed. With 20 Iraqis dying to each American, and the Americans being viewed as the enemies, it's about time some fair payback occured. Besides, massive US casualties would probably bring your two relatives home before the conflict got any worse! Once again, you're overly emotional. I'm sorry you're gay and have to live in Los Angeles. That's so unfortunate, it's like the corporate whoredom capital of the world. You ought to move up to Portland. Or San Francisco. But like I've said in other threads, a conservative homosexual is sleeping with the enemy.

I'd prefer that if the Iraqis were more prepared, but we also have to take the fight to the terrorists; one of the primary reasons we're patrolling is to attract the terrorists to us and then kill or capture them, which in turn leads to their cells' leaders, and up the chain of command to their leaders, and eventually destroying the entire organization. It's a guerilla war and must be fought in that manner.


We aren't winning this war though. Our leads are terrible, I haven't seen any significant arrests (as far as leaders go). This, to me, seems like grassroots terrorism. No significant leaders, and lots of devoted followers.

I believe my views are correct. I supported this war for far different reasons. And what happened in Rwanda? Did we do anything for them?I believe your views are wrong. Regardless of that, I find it hard to respect you because your reasoning seems childishly simple. Opinions are one thing, but if you fail to support them properly, expect people to question them.
I'm not a conservative. And so what if i'm gay? Does being gay make me have to be on the left? Stereotypes.Either you made a freudian slip (hey, it happens) or you are saying your views are not conservative. Should the latter be true, I'd disagree. You've shown you support the conservative agenda in most cases. As for you being gay, I have no problem with that. You are under no obligation to be liberal on everything because of it, though I have seen that you are liberal on the gay rights issues, which I agree on. They are, however, not the issue here.
MCBSC: "I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own."

I can understand people who oppose this war, but if you ever fucking imply that two of my relatives should die... grr.. don't you ever dare say such a thing again! :mad:I never implied anything of the sort. Claiming I do is rather insulting.

Like I said, overly emotional. I lived with the military for a year, and I had friends who were wounded. Death is terrible, but it must be reputed. With 20 Iraqis dying to each American, and the Americans being viewed as the enemies, it's about time some fair payback occured. Besides, massive US casualties would probably bring your two relatives home before the conflict got any worse! Once again, you're overly emotional. I'm sorry you're gay and have to live in Los Angeles. That's so unfortunate, it's like the corporate whoredom capital of the world. You ought to move up to Portland. Or San Francisco. But like I've said in other threads, a conservative homosexual is sleeping with the enemy.

I'm overly emotional? HAH! I look at yourself and wonder about that one. I'm not the one who got warned by a moderator for bashing someone. I know death is terrible. My family has had an extensive past (and present) in the military. I don't want massive US casualities like you, and guess what? I don't think massive casualities will happen. Now onto a refutation of your attack on my sexuality.... I think you are the one who is overly emotional. Why are you sorry that I'm gay and I live in Los Angeles? I personally like this city. It is no corporate whoredom capital of the world (you're full of crap). San Francisco is a huge port city by the way.... responsible for much capitalist trade.

Like I said, you don't know what the hell I am... I'm no conservative. And you don't know what you're talking about. Why do I have to be on the left? Because of your own satisfaction? Because you say so? I don't think so. The world does not revolve around you.

I believe your views are wrong. Regardless of that, I find it hard to respect you because your reasoning seems childishly simple. Opinions are one thing, but if you fail to support them properly, expect people to question them.

Actually I feel that people with your political affiliation as using childishly simplistic (and wrong) logic. I believe your views are wrong and very dangerous.

Either you made a freudian slip (hey, it happens) or you are saying your views are not conservative. Should the latter be true, I'd disagree. You've shown you support the conservative agenda in most cases. As for you being gay, I have no problem with that. You are under no obligation to be liberal on everything because of it, though I have seen that you are liberal on the gay rights issues, which I agree on. They are, however, not the issue here.

No. I don't support the conservative agenda (what's that anyways? Something you made up in your spare time?).

In fact I'm moderate and political tests I take indicates that.

Also I didn't bring up my sexuality (that's a little thing some people bring up around here to try and manipulate me)

Fake

We aren't winning this war though. Our leads are terrible, I haven't seen any significant arrests (as far as leaders go). This, to me, seems like grassroots terrorism. No significant leaders, and lots of devoted followers.

The terrorists are predominantly foreign fighters funded by Iran sent to destabilize the US and Iraqi efforts through murdering civilians so that an Islamic theocracy can be implemented.

The insurgency is comprised of Iraqis who strike at legitimate targets and are motivated by anger against the US troops on their soil, not the desire for a theocracy. That's why there is friction between the Al-Qaeda nutjobs and the actual resistance. The resistance wants the US gone, but not the theocracy.

I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own.
Now that’s just going to far. I don’t support the war, but it wasn’t the choice of the troops to go there.

Tell, me why should we be in Iraq?
Because we just should.
Oh it isn't an excuse. It is a reason.
Oh that's precious... Whatever you say. :rolleyes: Here I was thinking that it was because of the "irrefutable" and "unmistakable" evidence of WMD's in Iraq. Whatever happened to that argument?

I'd like you to take a look at something...
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html
Enjoy...

We aren't winning this war though. Our leads are terrible, I haven't seen any significant arrests (as far as leaders go). This, to me, seems like grassroots terrorism. No significant leaders, and lots of devoted followers.


4 car bombs a day = a loss? maybe in psychological warfare, but militarily blowing up a bus station and hospital has no effect what so ever other then to fuel the rampent negativity by anti war people since they want Iraqis to die, they want the government to fall, they want a civil war to break out.

Oh that's precious... Whatever you say. :rolleyes: Here I was thinking that it was because of the "irrefutable" and "unmistakable" evidence of WMD's in Iraq. Whatever happened to that argument?

I'd like you to take a look at something...
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html
Enjoy...

:upyours:

I never used the WMD reason.

Trust me, I don't like conservatives. I'm moderate but I still support the troops.*cough* I seriously choked on that one. Mesa, moderate would be a democrat.

*cough* I seriously choked on that one. Mesa, moderate would be a democrat.

No. Democrats for the most part aren't moderates.

But since you are so far off to the left, I can see why you would say that. Maybe compared to you. But hey.. Ted Kennedy would be classified as a republican when compared to your beliefs.

Oh that's precious... Whatever you say. :rolleyes: Here I was thinking that it was because of the "irrefutable" and "unmistakable" evidence of WMD's in Iraq. Whatever happened to that argument?

I'd like you to take a look at something...
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html
Enjoy...


and? resolution 1441 said openly iraq had WMD...it was approved by the UNSC, i guess that makes France, Russia, Syria, Britan and others liars too.

There was a story well hidden by the media that reported that saddam himself believed he had WMD, hes people were so terrifed of the man to tell him no we dont have the capacity to do it, that they lied to HIM about having the stuff, remember Saddam rarely went out in public after his attempted assassination in the late 80's...he lived in a box, and people would tell him things just to please him.


Seriously guys why are you arguing about something that CANT be fixed...you cant deinvade a country, you cant revive the dead, all you can do is pick up the peices the best way possible. fuck im anti war turned pro war just because of the stupid shit the anti war crowd as pulled..you guys are assholes. But differences aside leaving only would bring iraq into a civil war, the USA is currently the only stablizing police force there for the time being, until that changes they dont go anywhere.

Think about what happened in Somollia after the US left because of cowardence....

Oh that's precious... Whatever you say. :rolleyes: Here I was thinking that it was because of the "irrefutable" and "unmistakable" evidence of WMD's in Iraq. Whatever happened to that argument?
I'd love to tell you, but common sense tells me not to link it.

dp

:upyours:

I never used the WMD reason.
You are being impolite becuase _________ ?

I never said you used that reason. I'm saying that the "real" reason for invading Iraq according to the BUsh administration was the existence of WMD's and the will to use them against the USA/allies/other nations.

The real "real" reason of course is simply carrying out the PNAC's policy.

Perhaps it was the content of the link that made you get all thorny.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html

I would really appreciate your comment on it. It says volumes against what you defend and believe in and your silence on this subject is an acceptance of defeat.

I don’t support the war, but it wasn’t the choice of the troops to go there.
Eh? They're a volunteer army. They sign up for whatever purpose they are subsequently used.

I'd love to tell you, but common sense tells me not to link it.You mean the one about post Saddam WMD's?... Spare yourself the trouble. :rolleyes:

I would really appreciate your comment on it. It says volumes against what you defend and believe in and your silence on this subject is an acceptance of defeat.

I'm not saying anything on your non-stop pouring of rhetoric. It seems like you suffer from rhetoric diarrhea. A very serious condition. You also repeat the same things in a very nescient manner.

Eh? They're a volunteer army. They sign up for whatever purpose they are subsequently used.
That doesn’t mean they deserve to die because of an unmerited war. The job of the armed service is to protect the US. They aren’t doing that in Iraq.

Apparently 'guns and explosives were found'. So if I raided, say, Whispering Leg's house and found 'guns and explosives' that would justify it? Because I know he has guns and any modern house contains potential explosives. Hell, if you count BB's my house has guns and explosives too.

Not to mention the high gun-ownership rates of the region.

And Mesa. The Democrrats are right-wingers too.

Apparently 'guns and explosives were found'. So if I raided, say, Whispering Leg's house and found 'guns and explosives' that would justify it? Because I know he has guns and any modern house contains potential explosives. Hell, if you count BB's my house has guns and explosives too.

Well if you were the police and were raiding a house and you got shot at, would you shoot back or just let yourself get killed?


And Mesa. The Democrrats are right-wingers too.

No. They aren't.

No. Democrats for the most part aren't moderates.

But since you are so far off to the left, I can see why you would say that. Maybe compared to you. But hey.. Ted Kennedy would be classified as a republican when compared to your beliefs.Mesa, from a view of the political spectrum, democrats are right from center and republicans border on the far right. The reason many people consider democrats leftist is because due to the inherent flaw of a bipartisan system, there isn't an effecive party for the left, so they flock over to the Democrats for the most part. The political spectrum is much broader than just Democrats and Republicans, in fact, its been remarked by Democrats why they get along so fabulously with the British is because "they're all democrats".
And calling me far off to the left is more than misguided. If I were far left, I would be vehemently opposed to the war, vehemently opposed to continued coalition prescence, vehemently opposed to the war in Afghanistan, and vehemently opposed to the United States. You have no idea what far left means because there is no such thing in the US.

It seems like you suffer from rhetoric diarrhea. A very serious condition. You also repeat the same things in a very nescient manner.It's called sharing my opinion with others. You still haven't explained why you insulted me nor why you continue to insult me.

Wild guess here. Is it because of my opinion being diferent from yours? Is it becuase I believe that I was lied to by the Bush administration, about the reason for invading Iraq?


I'm not saying anything on your non-stop pouring of rhetoric. It's an article from www.cnn.com. :rolleyes:

Here's the link once more...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the existence and comment on the content of certain news articles that directly contradict what you believe, tells me something about you also.

THe " photo " is a mural on a wall in central bagdad

Fakea mural?

Reuters Journalists are taking pictures of Murals now?
You neoCons should slow Down Your FOX TVdoses...Its really affecting you.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/GEO861510.htm

Mesa, from a view of the political spectrum, democrats are right from center and republicans border on the far right.

Maybe from the view of your political views. From the view of reality, democrats are center-left and republicans are center-right. There are elements of both parties that swing conservatively and to the opposite.

And calling me far off to the left is more than misguided. If I were far left, I would be vehemently opposed to the war, vehemently opposed to continued coalition prescence, vehemently opposed to the war in Afghanistan, and vehemently opposed to the United States. You have no idea what far left means because there is no such thing in the US.

I think you are very far to the left and you make Ted kennedy look like a republican. I'm not misguided. And I know there is a such thing in the US (Lyndon LaRouche). So please, cut the crap.

No. They aren't.


So Europe's communist. You can't have it both ways. The Democrats really are republicans without the bible belt and Karl Rove.

It's called sharing my opinion with others. You still haven't explained why you insulted me nor why you continue to insult me.

Wild guess here. Is it because of my opinion being diferent from yours? Is it becuase I believe that I was lied to by the Bush administration, about the reason for invading Iraq?

It's an article from www.cnn.com. :rolleyes:

Here's the link once more...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the existence and comment on the content of certain news articles that directly contradict what you believe, tells me something about you also.

Rhetoric diarrhea. Repeat and repeat, and repeat.. until you turn blue. Very sad that you can't acknowledge the fact I don't give a damn. Nothing contradicts what I believe because I didn't use the WMD reason ever to support myself. Before the war, and after. If you want to continue lying about me... great. I'll refute you every time.

Mesa, from a view of the political spectrum, democrats are right from center and republicans border on the far right. The reason many people consider democrats leftist is because due to the inherent flaw of a bipartisan system, there isn't an effecive party for the left, so they flock over to the Democrats for the most part. The political spectrum is much broader than just Democrats and Republicans, in fact, its been remarked by Democrats why they get along so fabulously with the British is because "they're all democrats".
And calling me far off to the left is more than misguided. If I were far left, I would be vehemently opposed to the war, vehemently opposed to continued coalition prescence, vehemently opposed to the war in Afghanistan, and vehemently opposed to the United States. You have no idea what far left means because there is no such thing in the US.
Translation: I’m an existentialist European who wants every country in the world to be like mine and cant understand that most American politics are all influenced by the same philosophers, thus making them relatively homogeneous.

Translation: I’m an existentialist European who wants every country in the world to be like mine and cant understand that most American politics are all influenced by the same philosophers, thus making them relatively homogeneous.

Clarification. Most Western countries entertain a variety of ideaologies in their political spectrum. The US has 2 parties with no real dividing line beyond abortion.

Rhetoric diarrhea. Repeat and repeat, and repeat.. until you turn blue. Very sad that you can't acknowledge the fact I don't give a damn. Nothing contradicts what I believe because I didn't use the WMD reason ever to support myself. Before the war, and after. If you want to continue lying about me... great. I'll refute you every time.You support the War in Iraq. The link is a testimony of someone who does not. It's as simple as that. All I'd like is a comment on your part. The fact that you constantly dissregard news that does not favour your opinion or position is very immature.

Maybe from [a global political view]. From [an American political view], democrats are center-left and republicans are center-right. There are elements of both parties that swing conservatively and to the opposite. I corrected your statement. By your reasoning, I'd be so far left that I'd be right (no pun intended :p ).

Well if you were the police and were raiding a house and....Well if you were the police and were raiding a house and executed an unarmed Brazilian...you would say that "he was acting suspicious and... he had a Bulky coat and.. he was running away and... he jumped the Fare Tourniquets...and..."

But..would I take your word for it?
Would the Iraqui People take your word for it?
Would The EU media take your word for it?
Would the ROW take your word for it?

Translation: I’m an existentialist European who wants every country in the world to be like mine and cant understand that most American politics are all influenced by the same philosophers, thus making them relatively homogeneous.Nope. It basically states that American political parties are generally limited to one part of the political spectrum that really exists.

Hey Canada6, I don't care what the man says. It doesn't impact me. Personally I think he's doing it for the media spotlight.

I corrected your statement. By your reasoning, I'd be so far left that I'd be right (no pun intended :p ).

Incorrect. Also that violates rules. You cannot change my statements and keep my name under the quote.

OceanDrive: Immaturity. That is what your statement is. I never brought up the brazilian guy. I brought up what happened here. Immature.. blatantly immature on your part.

OceanDrive: Immaturity. That is what your statement is. I never brought up the brazilian guy. I brought up what happened here. Immature.. blatantly immature on your part.

Actually it's entirely relevant. Most people wish to evade censure. The best way to do it is to ensure that the truth (or the generally accepted version anyway) is slanted on your side. Of course if you get found out it only makes things worse...

Nope. It basically states that American political parties are generally limited to one part of the political spectrum that really exists.
And the problem with that is? As I said, almost all of our politics are influenced by the same philosophers. Believe it or not, the American people don’t want socialism. Outside of the Bay area of California, any candidate that advocates it, loses.

Nope. It basically states that American political parties are generally limited to one part of the political spectrum that really exists.

I don't know, because each country has a different political spectrum. There really isn't a 100% definition of the universal standards for "right" and "left", so it's more of a per country basis for these terms.

:upyours:

I never used the WMD reason.

You already have 2 warnings on your plate. Having been warned about the tone of voice that you continue to use; therefore ignoring my suggestions for you, you're extremely close to receiving a more serious punishment. The smiley you used was specifically used to tell off someone else after they had responded to you. Yes, Jolt has given us these smilies to use, but it doesn't mean you can just use them without being taken seriously. I will advise... no, strongly suggest that you quit responding in the tone of voice that you have been in this thread, and in the rest of the General forum.

OceanDrive: Immaturity. That is what your statement is. I never brought up the brazilian guy. I brought up what happened here. Immature.. blatantly immature on your part.My logic is simple...They killed 3 men and pic of the weelchair victim made it to the net...

even if the marines did not find "weapons-and-explosives"..the US-Military will say they found some.

maybe they found something...maybe they didn't...

regardless of the truth...they will say they found some.

I mean what else can they say really, "Oups..we killed a man in a wheelcair, but we are not sure if they are insurgents...cos we found nothing"

Incorrect. Also that violates rules. You cannot change my statements and keep my name under the quote.I would like a ruling on that. I may be wrong, but I think by stating that I tampered with your statement and clearly marking what it was that I tampered with, I don't necessarily break any rules. But I'll stop if I'm proven wrong.
As for the incorrect, I thought you studied economics, and not political science. Have you any courses in political science?

My logic is simple...They killed 3 men and pic of the weelchair victim made it to the net...

even if the marines did not find "weapons-and-explosives"..the US-Military will say they found some.

maybe they found something...maybe they didn't...

regardless of the truth...they will say they found some.

I mean what else can they say really, "Oups..we killed a man in a wheelcair, but we are not sure if they are insurgents...cos we found nothing"

You should provide evidence for these baseless statements.

the US-Military will say they found some.By that reasoning, they would have found prewar stockpiles of WMDs long before now.

As for the incorrect, I thought you studied economics, and not political science. Have you any courses in political science?

Um no. I'm majoring in political science. Apparently you don't read anything I post in the rest of the forum. I've taken approximately a half dozen political science courses so far.

You already have 2 warnings on your plate. Having been warned about the tone of voice that you continue to use; therefore ignoring my suggestions for you, you're extremely close to receiving a more serious punishment. The smiley you used was specifically used to tell off someone else after they had responded to you. Yes, Jolt has given us these smilies to use, but it doesn't mean you can just use them without being taken seriously. I will advise... no, strongly suggest that you quit responding in the tone of voice that you have been in this thread, and in the rest of the General forum.How lucky for Mesatecala that I (unlike Mesatecala) never complain to mods.

I personally feel that the posting style commonly used by Mesatecala are perfect examples of how not to post. On how not to share, respect, and debate with others. I don't want to make this any kind of formal complaint. This is just my personal dissapoint in someone.

On the other hand, I think it makes Mesatecala coherent with the opinions and political views he/she shares.

Congrats, Mesatecala!

You should feel proud. Most people actually have reasons for the things they believe. You just spit insults at anyone who tries to get a justification out of you.

How lucky for Mesatecala that I (unlike Mesatecala) never complain to mods.

I personally feel that the posting style commonly used by Mesatecala are perfect examples of how not to post. On how not to share, respect, and debate with others. I don't want to make this any kind of formal complaint. This is just my personal dissapoint in someone.

On the other hand, I think it makes Mesatecala coherent with the opinions and political views he/she shares.

I'm placing you on my block list at this time. It has been good talking to you. I get angry when people repeat the same thing over and over again, without going onto something new. I have had enough of it, for example in the media.

And it is a he (omfg).

Congrats, Mesatecala!

You should feel proud. Most people actually have reasons for the things they believe. You just spit insults at anyone who tries to get a justification out of you.

And you would know this how? Because you think so?

I give plenty of reasons for the things I believe. Please point out some insults.

You should provide evidence for these baseless statements.Be a good example. So far, you did nothing to back your baseless statements in quite a few debates I've had with you. Instead, you would tell me that my evidence was my personal opinion, and once you were willing to admit that it wasn't, you resorted to the tactic of denying that you cared about the topic at hand in the first place. You should stick to the standards you set for other people. If you did, we might even be able to debate properly.

Um no. I'm majoring in political science. Apparently you don't read anything I post in the rest of the forum. I've taken approximately a half dozen political science courses so far.Did they teach you how to insult people with different opinions or did you learn that yourself?

I give plenty of reasons for the things I believe.Yes, that we are biased, bigoted, and take our opinions for truths. Those were your reasons that you were willing to share with us so far.

Be a good example. So far, you did nothing to back your baseless statements in quite a few debates I've had with you. Instead, you would tell me that my evidence was my personal opinion, and once you were willing to admit that it wasn't, you resorted to the tactic of denying that you cared about the topic at hand in the first place. You should stick to the standards you set for other people. If you did, we might even be able to debate properly.

That's because I don't think you're being reasonable with me. You instead bash me. Well I'm updating my ignore list. Thanks for giving me the hint that you should be on there too. Good talking with you... it is up to you to debate in a civil manner with me. I have debated properly. Thank you very much.

By that reasoning, they would have found prewar stockpiles of WMDs long before now.They can always say "WMDs were hidden" or "WMDs were smuggled".

But...they cant say "we cannot find Guns-and-Explosives...they were hidden or smuggled" ...Cos the 3 men did not know the marines were about to raid the house. (also a house can be easily rounded up...and can be fully searched in a couple hours)

Euroslavia: I apologize for using that smily. I'll take advice given from the moderators and just ignore the people who resort to attacking my views without basis. I won't use it again.

Since you asked me to point out insults:
[QUOTE=Mesatecala]

Blah blah blah blah.. keep ranting and ranting...
The only one twisting things is the foolish left wing...
Undelia - Sometimes, I wonder if you are parodying a neo-con.
At least i'm not like a moonie.



I never used the WMD reason.


I'm not saying anything on your non-stop pouring of rhetoric. It seems like you suffer from rhetoric diarrhea. A very serious condition. You also repeat the same things in a very nescient manner.

And the problem with that is? As I said, almost all of our politics are influenced by the same philosophers. Believe it or not, the American people don’t want socialism. Outside of the Bay area of California, any candidate that advocates it, loses.This isn't the thread to debate the problem with that, actually, and that wasn't my point either. The thing is that stating he was moderate was wrong, unless he made sure to limit the statement to the conservative spectrum. When I pointed this out, I was referred to as a fool. But in fact, the American political spectrum isn't really the political spectrum. I felt the need to point this out to him.

Blah blah blah blah.. keep ranting and ranting...

They say the same thing to me.

The only one twisting things is the foolish left wing...

Again.. same as above reply.

Undelia - Sometimes, I wonder if you are parodying a neo-con.

Uh, I never said that.

At least i'm not like a moonie.

Moonies are actual people... who are very conservative..

I'm glad American troops are dying. They are murderers, and have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis on their own.

Tens of thousands??? Glad troops are dying? Rhetoric and lack of respect for human lives. That's the real problem with this world. What difference does it make whether they're american, iraqi, or japanese? This eye for an eye "they started it" crap from every side is really starting to piss me off!

I'm placing you on my block list at this time. I consider that to be the manifestation of your (or anyone else's) incapabability of refuting what I and many others have to say about the Invasion of Iraq.

It has been good talking to you. I get angry when people repeat the same thing over and over again, without going onto something new. I have had enough of it, for example in the media.And that's when you give them the finger. :rolleyes:

Good luck with your political science. When you get through that I suggest you should try enrolling in etiquette and anger management classes.

This isn't the thread to debate the problem with that, actually, and that wasn't my point either. The thing is that stating he was moderate was wrong, unless he made sure to limit the statement to the conservative spectrum. When I pointed this out, I was referred to as a fool. But in fact, the American political spectrum isn't really the political spectrum. I felt the need to point this out to him.

Last statement to this, and I'm wrapping up my time here for today: I'm not a conservative. And yes, I'm a moderate. You cannot say that I'm wrong because I know where I stand. If you want to reject that, fine by me.

This isn't the thread to debate the problem with that, actually, and that wasn't my point either. The thing is that stating he was moderate was wrong, unless he made sure to limit the statement to the conservative spectrum. When I pointed this out, I was referred to as a fool. But in fact, the American political spectrum isn't really the political spectrum. I felt the need to point this out to him.

I personally feel that there is no definite political spectrum, unless it is constructed as a composite of all of the spectrums from every political system in the world. That would be the best marker, because it would result in a spectrum that isn't left-centered or right-centered and would serve as a yardstick (or meterstick :p ) for the world's politics.

That's because I don't think you're being reasonable with me. You instead bash me. Well I'm updating my ignore list. Thanks for giving me the hint that you should be on there too. Good talking with you... it is up to you to debate in a civil manner with me. I have debated properly. Thank you very much.I bet Corneliu is the only one that's not on the list by now.

That's because I don't think you're being reasonable with me. You instead bash me. Well I'm updating my ignore list. Thanks for giving me the hint that you should be on there too. Good talking with you... it is up to you to debate in a civil manner with me. I have debated properly. Thank you very much.It would be sad if you don't hear what I have to say to you. I'd like to point out that Euroslavia told you that you had, in fact, not been debating properly. Civility is a double edged sword.
Mesa, "bashing" is something completely different.
And you really shouldn't say "thank you" if you don't mean it. That is quite rude.

Getting back to the debate at hand...

Tell, me why should we be in Iraq?

Because we just should. It is better that we are helping these people instead of screwing up like we did in Rwanda by doing nothing.

Why Iraq, specifically? There are dozens of nations wantonly slaughtering thousands, so why was Iraq the main target?

You cannot say that I'm wrong because I know where I stand.Just becuase you know where you stand doesn't imply infalibility.

I would like a ruling on that. I may be wrong, but I think by stating that I tampered with your statement and clearly marking what it was that I tampered with, I don't necessarily break any rules. But I'll stop if I'm proven wrong.
As for the incorrect, I thought you studied economics, and not political science. Have you any courses in political science?

Blatantly changing someone elses' quote to mock them is considered against the rules. In this case, Laerod informed everyone that it was changed, and he isn't necessarily 'breaking' the rules; however, I would suggest against it in the future. Just say it outside of Mesatecala's quote box.

Getting back to the debate at hand...

Why Iraq, specifically? There are dozens of nations wantonly slaughtering thousands, so why was Iraq the main target?Exactly. This is the first step to acknowledge that someting is up. That someone has lied. That the war in not right.

Ok I'm done with my ignore list. Now I can only see Vetalia's and Euroslavia's posts... I was told not to respond to baits.. so I did what someone told me to do on here.

Just an update to those people I did ignore (laerod, canada6, tepoztecal). I cannot see your posts. Just keep that in mind. I had to do this to prevent myself from lashing out in anger.

Blatantly changing someone elses' quote to mock them is considered against the rules. In this case, Laerod informed everyone that it was changed, and he isn't necessarily 'breaking' the rules; however, I would suggest against it in the future. Just say it outside of Mesatecala's quote box.
Thank you for clearing that up. I'll refrain from doing that in the future.

Since he can't read this...

I hear Mesa can't have an orgasm unless he rapes an Ay-rab.

Since he can't read this...

I hear Mesa can't have an orgasm unless he rapes an Ay-rab.
*Shakes head sadly*
Those in power will not like this.

Since he can't read this...
I hear Mesa can't have an orgasm unless he rapes an Ay-rab.

You can still be punished for offenses, so watch what you say even if the person ignoring you can't read it.

You can still be punished for offenses, so watch what you say even if the person ignoring you can't read it.

Thanks for quoting that. Euroslavia will deal with it.

My sexual drive is fine thank you very much. Normal for a person my age.

Getting back to the debate at hand...

Why Iraq, specifically? There are dozens of nations wantonly slaughtering thousands, so why was Iraq the main target?


The question that never gets answered, I'm afraid.

The question that never gets answered, I'm afraid.

Because we wanted to try and fix one problem we caused during the cold war, and another war.

North Korea is next for trying to build WMDs.

Probably followed by Vietnam/China for being communist

Another Mid East country

And eventually we will force everyone to be a democracy. Not all countries like democracy.

Since he can't read this...

I hear Mesa can't have an orgasm unless he rapes an Ay-rab.That is rather low...

Ok I'm done with my ignore list. Now I can only see Vetalia's and Euroslavia's posts... You know... I'd hate to be the one to validate Godwin's law for this thread but towards the end of WW2 Adolf Hitler refused to acknowledge and simply ignored and dissmissed all bad news. He would refuse to listen to briefings discussing military losses and would only care to listen to good news. Of course he did this until it was no longer no possible due to the overwhelming reality of the collapse of the 3rd Reich. He later killed himself.

I was told not to respond to baits.. so I did what someone told me to do on here.You where also told to believe in the Invasion of Iraq and you've also done that. You are void of self determination. No-one absolutely no-one tells me what to do. I follow rules and guidelines of my own free will. I don't swear or use the finger becuase I feel that is showing ignorance and that it is truly dissrespectfull to fellow mankind.

Just an update to those people I did ignore (laerod, canada6, tepoztecal). I cannot see your posts. Just keep that in mind. I had to do this to prevent myself from lashing out in anger.Once again, I'm obliged to say that once your done studying political science, enroll in a serious anger management and etiquette course. If you are in a state where you need a physical restraint to prevent you from doing something... woah... :eek: I honestly feel pity for you.

Oh one last thing.. comparing me to Hitler and saying I would kill myself is not appropriate. Additionally, I'm not the one in need of anger management classes.

The question that never gets answered, I'm afraid.It's the question that get's the middle finger treatment, and has to put up with claims of rhetoric and diarea from people like Mesatecala.

Oh one last thing.. comparing me to Hitler and saying I would kill myself is not appropriate. Additionally, I'm not the one in need of anger management classes.Denial. :D


Oh and you're also a liar, but I'm glad you've been reading all along.

Well seeing that I have kept my cool, shows I don't need anger management classes. The only denial is coming from Canada6. Sure i can click "view post" even with ignore.. because curiousity kills the cat... but seriously, saying I should kill myself, or that I'm like Hitler is totally wrong.

You are aware he can no longer see you right?

Anyway, how does possessing arms, and bomb making materials make you a terrorist?

The troops have arms, ammunition, and vehicles, so shouldn't you be more afraid of them?

Because we just should. It is better that we are helping these people instead of screwing up like we did in Rwanda by doing nothing. The do nothing crowd is wrong because their views led to the deaths of millions.

Right, whereas in your opinion anyone who gets shot by the US military is a terrorist. I guess police in London only shoot terrorists too. Oh wait, they don't! You see, you can blame "do nothing" people for killing millions - hey, invoke Godwin's Law while you're at it, just to ram home the subtle point that people who disagree with you are evil - but every innocent man or woman or child who gets killed in Iraq can also be placed on your head. Not that that bothers you, though, eh?

..laerod, canada6, tepoztecal..axis of evil. :D

Right, whereas in your opinion anyone who gets shot by the US military is a terrorist. I guess police in London only shoot terrorists too. Oh wait, they don't! You see, you can blame "do nothing" people for killing millions - hey, invoke Godwin's Law while you're at it, just to ram home the subtle point that people who disagree with you are evil - but every innocent man or woman or child who gets killed in Iraq can also be placed on your head. Not that that bothers you, though, eh?

I never said that. But according to recent news, those men were firing at US troops. I will wait for further investigation. I don't advocate killing innocent people. So please don't suggest that again.

axis of evil. :DYou're just jealous that you didn't make it on :D

Oh one last thing.. comparing me to Hitler and saying I would kill myself is not appropriate. Additionally, I'm not the one in need of anger management classes.

He did nothing of the sort. All he did was say that Hitler didn't like to hear his losses, and I think he was referring to Saddam.

I never read anything of his that told you to suicide.

Now anyway, what reason do you believe we should've invaded? I read your post and it made no sense, this has nothing to do with genocide, or the UN would get involved.

You're just jealous that you didn't make it on :DYou got that rite :D

To try to get back on topic, if the average iraqi hated the us, the press would be shoving them in our face daily. Why don't they? The average iraqi is glad that we are there. They understand how far out of our way we go to limit civilian casulities.

Well seeing that I have kept my cool, shows I don't need anger management classes. I'm sorry. Would you care to explain exactly what giving me the finger has got to do with keeping your cool?

The only denial is coming from Canada6. Sure i can click "view post" even with ignore.. because curiousity kills the cat... but seriously, saying I should kill myself, or that I'm like Hitler is totally wrong.I did not say that. Nor did I imply that. I was only stating historical fact to enrich the text. My point was to condemn your compiling of a considerable ignore list as awfull debating. I believe Jibea agrees with me.

The average iraqi is glad that we are there. They understand how far out of our way we go to limit civilian casulities.
how would you know?
Copyright © 2005 Ocean Inc.

You know... I'd hate to be the one to validate Godwin's law for this thread but towards the end of WW2 Adolf Hitler refused to acknowledge and simply ignored and dissmissed all bad news. He would refuse to listen to briefings discussing military losses and would only care to listen to good news. Of course he did this until it was no longer no possible due to the overwhelming reality of the collapse of the 3rd Reich. He later killed himself.
You have just managed to convince me of watching "Der Untergang" like I was planning all along. :D
Night all.

To try to get back on topic, if the average iraqi hated the us, the press would be shoving them in our face daily. Why don't they? The average iraqi is glad that we are there. They understand how far out of our way we go to limit civilian casulities.
I hope you meant civilian deaths... because right now, that number is over 26,500. Casualties are at least triple that.

I never said that. But according to recent news, those men were firing at US troops. I will wait for further investigation. I don't advocate killing innocent people. So please don't suggest that again.

OK, reasonable enough. I won't suggest that if next time you'll refrain from suggesting that people who are against war or interventionism are murderers of millions. That's the only thing that caused me to respond to you, I have no desire to character assassinate here.

You have just managed to convince me of watching "Der Untergang" like I was planning all along. :D
Night all.

Bis bald (one of my limited phrases.)

I believe we should have invaded Iraq because even though there were no WMD's and no ties to terrorism, G. Bush and the PNAC pack had the foreskin... er sorry... forsight to realise that it would be where all the terrorists would try to make a last stand, and it's better if Iraqis are the victims of terror attacks than Americans because Iraqis are not as important to Gods green earth as Americans are. Although I want the Iraqis to be free of Saddams rape and torture (even though I don't care about all the rape and torture on American soil notorious to US prisons), I could care less if they are suffering from the highest rate of birth defects in the world due to the US littering the country with depleted uranium. So what that the country is in havok and innocent people are dying everyday, at least Saddam isn't the one causing it. So what if I don't have to live thru the real terror of war every day of my life with no water or electricity, I think its just and right to send our friends and family off to die for this cause. Amen.

I believe we should have invaded Iraq because even though there were no WMD's and no ties to terrorism, G. Bush and the PNAC pack had the foreskin... er sorry... forsight to realise that it would be where all the terrorists would try to make a last stand, and it's better if Iraqis are the victims of terror attacks than Americans because Iraqis are not as important to Gods green earth as Americans are. Although I want the Iraqis to be free of Saddams rape and torture (even though I don't care about all the rape and torture on American soil notorious to US prisons), I could care less if they are suffering from the highest rate of birth defects in the world due to the US littering the country with depleted uranium. So what that the country is in havok and innocent people are dying everyday, at least Saddam isn't the one causing it. So what if I don't have to live thru the real terror of war every day of my life with no water or electricity, I think its just and right to send our friends and family off to die for this cause. Amen.

It is people like you, sir that... oh wait. Yeah. Carry on.

Well... at least one war supporter has acknowledged that the PNAC is behind it. That is a step forward. A small one, but nevertheless forward towards a larger perspective and diferent understanding on what is really going on.

You have just managed to convince me of watching "Der Untergang" like I was planning all along. :D
Night all.Shamefully I haven't had the chance yet either. I hear it's very impressive.

You have just managed to convince me of watching "Der Untergang" like I was planning all along. :D
Night all.also should watch 'Dead Wrong' -- Inside an Intelligence Meltdown" airs Sunday at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html

how would you know?
Copyright © 2005 Ocean Inc.

I was there, boots on ground, for just over a year. I think that qualifies me to comment on the ROE for the theater.


DM, I meant casulities caused by our troops. There is nothing that we can do about the fact that the cowards fighting us don't care how many innocents kill in while trying to get at our forces, the ING, Iraqi police, ect

also should watch 'Dead Wrong' -- Inside an Intelligence Meltdown" airs Sunday at 8 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/index.html
I bet Mesatecala will have cnn locked out for the duration of that program in conformity with her behaviour here.

I can't wait for that. I will be glued to the screen. I hope they go as far as they should, in pursuit of the TRUTH. It might be the catalist slap in the face that America needs. I for one believe that those who voted for Bush's second term still have a heart and are still human beings capable of realizing how wrong they have been. And for those that dissregard the WMD talk... Just to think that the USA could've invaded Iraq to create another Islamic state in the middle east, (which is something Iraq was not with Saddam in power) is demonstrative of the kind of freedom the Iraqi's will be handed.

The average iraqi is glad that we are there. They understand how far out of our way we go to limit civilian casulities.How would you Know?I was there, boots on ground, for just over a year. I think that qualifies me to comment on the ROE for the theater.How can one single US soldier claim to know what the entire Iraqi people understands and thinks about the War?

How would you Know?How can one single US soldier claim to know what the entire Iraqi people understands and thinks about the War?
I never claimed to be able to speak for the entire Iraqi people. As for how do I know that they know that we go out of our way, a good example is this: shots come out of a crowd of people, the crowd starts running in all directions, leaving a rifle laying on the ground. American soldiers don't return fire, even when fired apon, unless they have a clear target. We expose ourselfs to fire to pull a wounded civilian out of the line of fire, and don't hesitate to offer aid to and medical support to those who get hurt by the insurgents.

I moved all around the country doing escort missions and providing security for civil afairs teams. That let me interact with the populace quite abit. The average iraqi isn't much diffrent from the average american. Most of the Iraqis that I dealt with want to go to work, make a living and come home to be with there family. They feel that they are caught up in events beyond thier control, but are glad to have the opportunity to have a life without Saddam.

It is people like you, sir that... oh wait. Yeah. Carry on.

I see you agree with me about the need to invade then :p

All of you watch too much TV and listen to the media too much. You blantly forget the fact that we are helping the Iraqi people.

they probally r terrorists or just incredibly stupid besides they'll get freedom eventually so who cares about uncle joe when you can get freedom

I don't think being anti-war means the same as being anti-US. Anti-Americanism annoys me a lot because as a European I understand that, in spite of all their arrogance, the US are on the side of democracy and freedom.

I'd definitely prefer being ruled by America (even if it was some moron like Bush) than to be ruled by one of those muslim wackos who don't have any respect to freedom and gender equality!

I believe we should have invaded Iraq because even though there were no WMD's and no ties to terrorism, G. Bush and the PNAC pack had the foreskin... er sorry... forsight

As usual, pro-war arguments and sexual innuendo seem to go together...

As usual, pro-war arguments and sexual innuendo seem to go together...


Isn't war really about proving who has the bigger dick?

Isn't war really about proving who has the bigger dick?
Inevitably...

THe " photo " is a mural on a wall in central bagdad
Fake

Thanks - didn't take a good look at it until you said that. It does look fake - any references?

Thanks - didn't take a good look at it until you said that. It does look fake - any references?


It looks real to me. Maybe a poor quality photo. I think that guy was just trolling by saying that.

It looks real to me. Maybe a poor quality photo. I think that guy was just trolling by saying that.


I've seen some well done fake jobs, but it's possible he was doing exactly as you say. That's why I asked for references. (I'll also note that while I can find other sources carrying the article, I can't find an independant non-Reuters source. And news agencies are rather succeptable to faked stories, and especially pictures.)

I've seen some well done fake jobs, but it's possible he was doing exactly as you say. That's why I asked for references. (I'll also note that while I can find other sources carrying the article, I can't find an independant non-Reuters source. And news agencies are rather succeptable to faked stories, and especially pictures.)Wouldn't exactly call Reuters careless. I could ask my mom though. Or my sister. She's doing an internship in the pictures section right now.

I see you agree with me about the need to invade then :p
But only because I find senseless death pretty.

will anyone agree with me here that before the birth of the illeagal nation of isreal was created and american troops weren't in saudi arabia protecting a dictator just as bad as sadam hussain,that islamic extreamism and suicide bombers were virtualy non-existent the british army tried to stop isreal from becoming a nation then america politically interviened and stopped us now we live in an unsafe world and america think they can police the whole planet. Also the isreali army has killed more innocent palastinians than sadam killed kurds but according to america thats ok because there are millions of jewish people living in america.

wouldnt it be great if california broke off from the usa and ended up next to us british they dont have to put up with bush and were a bit more socialist than the usa goverment :D :D

desperate mesures said he supported the iraq war because he finds senceless death pritty well all i have to say is your a sick neo-con twat my next door neighbours son died in iraq

will anyone agree with me here that before the birth of the illeagal nation of isreal was created and american troops weren't in saudi arabia protecting a dictator just as bad as sadam hussain,that islamic extreamism and suicide bombers were virtualy non-existent the british army tried to stop isreal from becoming a nation then america politically interviened and stopped us now we live in an unsafe world and america think they can police the whole planet. Also the isreali army has killed more innocent palastinians than sadam killed kurds but according to america thats ok because there are millions of jewish people living in america.Nope.
Israel is a legal state. If you want to deny it, you need to deny the legality of the US, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Zimbabwe, India, and Pakistan too.
The American soldiers "protecting" the Saudis were protecting them from Iraq, which was because Iraq had attacked Kuwait before, making Saddam a tad worse than the Saudis, don't you think?
Islamic extremism is the fault of a British citizen acting on behalf of the British government during WWI. Before then, the Arabs were loyal Turkish citizens, for the most part. And suicide bombers weren't around before because of miniaturization advances that were made.
Sounds like you're blaming everything on Israel. True, the fact that the British promised the "Holy Land" to both the Arabs and the Jews has caused a lot of strife, but it isn't the root of all conflicts and I wouldn't wager the British deserve all the blame.

Isn't war really about proving who has the bigger dick?

Yeah, except it's usually the guys with small dicks who start wars.

desperate mesures said he supported the iraq war because he finds senceless death pritty well all i have to say is your a sick neo-con twat my next door neighbours son died in iraq


he was kidding

Yeah, except it's usually the guys with small dicks who start wars.


very true~!

US soldiers "mistakenly" kills someone who is shooting AK-47 at them? And these people also have bomb materials? Is that a mistake?
War is cruel. Many times soldiers do things because they're inexperienced and scared. Not only US soldiers, but soldiers from any nation.

The average iraqi is glad that we are there. They understand how far out of our way we go to limit civilian casulities.How would you Know? The average iraqi isn't much diffrent from the average american.The average American would not be Glad to have a Foreign Army impose them their way...their Democracy...their Haliburton companies...

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=iraqis+streets&ei=UTF-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&fr=moz2

""The purpose of the raid was to capture and detain a kidnapping cell. A firefight ensued, and three terrorists were killed and one wounded. Weapons and explosive materials were captured," he (Major Tim Keefe) said by e-mail in reply to a question."

So appeasing to terrorists I see, oceandrive? :mad:

These fuckers kill our troops. I'm glad they are underneath the ground now.

Don't start a pointless war then.

I don't think being anti-war means the same as being anti-US. Anti-Americanism annoys me a lot because as a European I understand that, in spite of all their arrogance, the US are on the side of democracy and freedom.

I'd definitely prefer being ruled by America (even if it was some moron like Bush) than to be ruled by one of those muslim wackos who don't have any respect to freedom and gender equality!


I think what you really mean is that you'd rather live in a country
with the same rule of law and with the same rights as exist in the
US than be ruled by one of those "muslim wackos"

However there wouldn't be any perceivable advantage in being ruled
by America without them
which is what the Iraqis get,
detention without charge or trial
no accountability
torture
murder

as if that wasn't bad enough they also have to deal with
the americans whinging and whining
because people don't buy the idea that somehow it is all for their own good.