NationStates Jolt Archive

17/08/2005
AlJazeeraNEWS(independent NEWS retransmited by Your truly © :-)

The Brazilian electrician shot dead by police on the London Underground last month was being restrained when he was killed by officers from Scotland Yard's firearms unit, according to documents leaked last night.

Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot seven times in the head by two plainclothes policemen who had followed him on to the train at Stockwell station in the mistaken belief that he was a potential suicide bomber.

Documents and photographs leaked to ITV News also confirmed that Mr de Menezes did not run from the police, as had been reported, had used his Tube pass to enter the station, rather than vault the barrier, and had taken a seat on the train before being grabbed by an officer.

He was wearing a light denim jacket and not as previously reported a padded coat which could have concealed explosives.

The documents, which contain witness statements made to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, also suggest that the intelligence operation may have been botched because an officer watching a flat believed to be the hideout of one of the suspects in the abortive July 21 attack was "relieving himself".

Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, has apologised for the death of Mr de Menezes and a senior officer has visited Brazil to talk to his family. However, the latest disclosures will cast fresh light on Sir Ian's insistence that the death was the tragic consequence of a legitimate operation.

Shortly after the shooting, Sir Ian said: "Whatever else they were doing, they clearly thought they were faced with a suicide bomber and they were running towards him. Had that person been a suicide bomber and had the officers not fired and 25 yards up the track the bomb had exploded, the officers would be in a worse situation than they are now."

He insisted that lethal force was the only option available to his officers once they had satisfied themselves Mr de Menezes was a suicide bomber. Yet a few days later, West Midlands police used a Taser stun weapon to arrest Yasin Hassan Omar, one of the July 21 suspects. Mr de Menezes was killed the day after the failed attacks on Tube trains and a bus.
pjohnston@telegraph.co.uk

My comment: I am very disappointed. ...To say the least.

I wonder what Globo says about that.

I hate to say it, but DANG! If there's ever a list of what not to do's in London, this guy did them all.

A) Illegal Alien
B) Wearing heavy coat in London on a warm day-big RED FLAG
C) Came out of a house under surveilance-another Big FLAG
D) Jumped a turnstyle to get into the subway
E) Running from Police after several repeated calls for him to STOP

It's sad that the Police had to shoot him, but this guy showed all the trademarks of being a suicide bomber. Clear the Polce officers involved...this dude was asking for it.

Lethal force should be the 1st option when dealing with suicide bombers. Telling them "STOP! I MEANT IT! DON'T MAKE ME SAY STOP AGAIN!" isn't going to work.

this is all very sad

I hate to say it, but DANG! If there's ever a list of what not to do's in London, this guy did them all.

A) Illegal Alien
B) Wearing heavy coat in London on a warm day-big RED FLAG
C) Came out of a house under surveilance-another Big FLAG
D) Jumped a turnstyle to get into the subway
E) Running from Police after several repeated calls for him to STOP

It's sad that the Police had to shoot him, but this guy showed all the trademarks of being a suicide bomber. Clear the Polce officers involved...this dude was asking for it.

Lethal force should be the 1st option when dealing with suicide bombers. Telling them "STOP! I MEANT IT! DON'T MAKE ME SAY STOP AGAIN!" isn't going to work.

Read the article ffs

I hate to say it, but DANG! If there's ever a list of what not to do's in London, this guy did them all.

A) Illegal Alien
B) Wearing heavy coat in London on a warm day-big RED FLAG
C) Came out of a house under surveilance-another Big FLAG
D) Jumped a turnstyle to get into the subway
E) Running from Police after several repeated calls for him to STOP

It's sad that the Police had to shoot him, but this guy showed all the trademarks of being a suicide bomber. Clear the Polce officers involved...this dude was asking for it.First of all..If those are the Trademarks the Police uses...we are in deep trouble.

second...You did not read my Post...did you?

This topic has been covered by Nadkor's thread, but


I hate to say it, but DANG! If there's ever a list of what not to do's in London, this guy did them all.

A) Illegal Alien
B) Wearing heavy coat in London on a warm day-big RED FLAG
C) Came out of a house under surveilance-another Big FLAG
D) Jumped a turnstyle to get into the subway
E) Running from Police after several repeated calls for him to STOP

A)Speculation.
B)No he didn't, you fucking liar.
C)I don't think he knew it was under surveillance.
D)No he didn't, you fucking liar.
E)No he didn't, you fucking liar.

It's sad that the Police had to shoot him, but this guy showed all the trademarks of being a suicide bomber. Clear the Polce officers involved...this dude was asking for it.

No, he didn't you fucking liar.

The documents and photographs confirm that Jean Charles was not carrying any bags, and was wearing a denim jacket, not a bulky winter coat, as had previously been claimed.

He was behaving normally, and did not vault the barriers, even stopping to pick up a free newspaper.

He started running when we saw a tube at the platform. Police had agreed they would shoot a suspect if he ran.

A document describes CCTV footage, which shows Mr de Menezes entered Stockwell station at a "normal walking pace" and descended slowly on an escalator.

The document said: "At some point near the bottom he is seen to run across the concourse and enter the carriage before sitting in an available seat.

"Almost simultaneously armed officers were provided with positive identification."

A member of the surveillance team is quoted in the report. He said: "I heard shouting which included the word `police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket.

"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 officers. I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side.

"I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting. I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

The report also said a post mortem examination showed Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but three other bullets missed, with the casings left lying in the tube carriage.

http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html

one shooting and you all think the local PCs will be gunning down anyone they please?..... :p :p :p

First of all..If those are the Trademarks the Police uses...we are in deep trouble.

second...You did not read my Post...did you?

If a terrorist attack recently occurred and a man in a subway bolted and kept running as the police repeatedly told him to stop then I think the police would have sufficent reason to be worried. But with the recent leak it sounds as though this wasn't quite as unquestionably justified as previously thought. I won't form an opinion until we hear an official report on what really happened, but if it differs significantly from the original story then I think that this policeman, as well as his department, will be in trouble up to their eyeballs whether it was a justified killing or not.

This topic has been covered by Nadkor's thread, but




A)Speculation.
B)No he didn't, you fucking liar.
C)I don't think he knew it was under surveillance.
D)No he didn't, you fucking liar.
E)No he didn't, you fucking liar.



No, he didn't you fucking liar.



http://www.itv.com/news/index_1677571.html

He had what is the equivelant of an expired visa-making him an unwanted guest.
Yes he DID run from the police. If he didn't know it was under surveilance, then that's good because it meant the Brits were doing a good job about being hidden. And if he wasn't wearing a heavy coat but wearing a light denim jacket, I stand corrected.

Yes he DID run from the police.
Apparently CCTV footage and an eyewitness report from a cop says he didn't.

If he didn't know it was under surveilance, then that's good because it meant the Brits were doing a good job about being hidden.

What does him leaving the building have to do with him apparently bringing it upon himself?

If a terrorist attack recently occurred and a man in a subway bolted and kept running as the police repeatedly told him to stop then I think the police would have sufficent reason to be worried. But with the recent leak it sounds as though this wasn't quite as unquestionably justified as previously thought. I won't form an opinion until we hear an official report on what really happened, but if it differs significantly from the original story then I think that this policeman, as well as his department, will be in trouble up to their eyeballs whether it was a justified killing or not.

Hmm, he didn't run.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LONDON — A Brazilian shot to death a day after botched bombings in London had walked casually onto a train before being gunned down by undercover officers, according to leaked footage that appeared to contradict earlier police reports that said the man disobeyed police orders.

Jean Charles de Menezes (search), a 27-year-old electrician, was shot eight times last month in front of terrified commuters on a subway train, after undercover police tailed him from a house under surveillance.

Police first said the shooting was related to the failed bombings on the London transit system July 21 — two weeks after four suspected suicide bombers blew themselves up in three Underground stations and aboard one double-decker bus.

Sir Ian Blair (search), the Metropolitan Police commissioner, called the death regrettable," but said it appeared "the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."

Citing security footage, a British television station reported Tuesday that Menezes entered the Stockwell subway station at a normal walking pace, stopping to pick up a newspaper before boarding a train and taking a seat.

The ITV News broadcast, citing an investigation report into the shooting, also said Menezes was wearing a light denim jacket when he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.

Witness reports described a terrifying scene of the man — wearing a bulky jacket on a warm July day — running through the train station, being tackled by a group of undercover police officers, then being shot several times at close range.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (search), which is investigating the shooting, refused Wednesday to comment on the veracity of the documents cited by ITV News.

A police spokeswoman also refused to explain what Blair meant when he said it appeared Menezes disobeyed orders. She noted, however, that police never said Menezes had tried to vault the barriers at the Underground station or tried to run from police.

Lawyer Harriet Wistrich, acting for the Brazilian's family, said police had no reason to suspect Menezes was a bomber.

"He was not carrying a rucksack. He simply had a denim jacket," Wistrich told British Broadcasting Corp. TV. "Was it necessary to shoot him dead as opposed to trying to confront him at an earlier stage? There was no indication he was about to blow himself up at all."

ITV News said that, according to the IPCC report, a member of the team that tailed Menezes into the subway train said he heard shouting including the word "police" before turning to face the Brazilian.

"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the ... officers ... I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side," the unidentified officer was quoted as saying.

"I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting. ... I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

A man sitting opposite Menezes saw a man boarding and firing his first shot from a handgun at the Brazilian's head from 12 inches away, according to the report obtained by ITV.

The report also said that, while Menezes was shot eight times, three other bullets were fired but missed.


Hmm he didn't run.



[Full Metal Jacket mode on] Anyone who runs is a terrorist. Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined terrorist. [/Full Metal Jacket mode off}

Hmm, he didn't run.
Good Morning.

Rather have one innoncent dead then dozens anyday. Can't really comment on any of the specifics in the article since its from Al Jazeera and I really don't feel like double checking with more credible sources.

Rather have one innoncent dead then dozens anyday.then we should kill all Brazileans.