NationStates Jolt Archive

Its a comminly misunderstood subject so lets here the peoples ideas on it

A "weak" atheist neither confirms nor denies the existance of (a) non-materialist entit(y)(ies).

A "strong" one denies the existance of such (an) entit(y)(ies).

An atheist is someone who does not believe in god(s). Someone who believes that god(s) do not exist is an antitheist, not an atheist.

I have no idea what an athiest is.

I have no idea what an athiest is.
It's obviously an adjective that means "most athy".

If Im not mistaken the word simply means "Without God".

Might even be a literal translation from the word's original latin.

a·the·ist
n.
1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

a·the·ist
n.
1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
Atheist and Infidel are synonyms.

A "weak" atheist neither confirms nor denies the existance of (a) non-materialist entit(y)(ies).

A "strong" one denies the existance of such (an) entit(y)(ies).



actually... the term 'weak atheist' is something i believe you made up or heard. the belief that there is no proof for or against the existance of an entity is called agnosticism.

there is only one kind of atheism, the kind where you completely deny any and all existance(s) of entit(y)(ies).

A "weak" atheist neither confirms nor denies the existance of (a) non-materialist entit(y)(ies).

A "strong" one denies the existance of such (an) entit(y)(ies).

Agnosticism is the word for "weak" atheism.

there is only one kind of atheism, the kind where you completely deny any and all existance(s) of entit(y)(ies).
As I pointed out above, you're describing antitheism, not atheism.

An atheist believes that god doesn't exist

An agnostic (of which I am) is someone who believes it is impossible to prove if god exists or not.

actually... the term 'weak atheist' is something i believe you made up or heard. the belief that there is no proof for or against the existance of an entity is called agnosticism.

there is only one kind of atheism, the kind where you completely deny any and all existance(s) of entit(y)(ies).
Agnostics say that since there is no evidence either way they can't say whether or not god exists.

Weak atheists say that since there is no evidence for god they'll assume that god doesn't exist.

See the difference?

Agnosticism is the word for "weak" atheism.
not true. see above post

Atheism is a when you believe that there is nethier a God nor Gods.

Agnosticism is not an alternative to atheism or theism. Everyone either believes in god or gods or does not. Therefore you can be an agnostic theist, one who believes in god but no particular god, or an agnostic atheist, one does not believe in god but remains open minded.

a-the-ism
no-god-belief or study in
belief or no study in god
example:
atheism

there's also:
monotheism
one-god-belief or study in
belief or study in one god
examples:
Christianity
Judaism
Islam
polytheistpm
many-gods-belief or study in
belief or study in many gods
example:
Hinduism

An agnostic (of which I am) is someone who believes it is impossible to prove if god exists or not.

Actually, most reasonable people admit that this is the case, as it is really impossible to prove, beyond all shadow of doubt, virtually anything about the fundamental nature of the universe, including its provenance for/ having been created by/ being interfered with by/ whatever supernatural entities of any description. At the end of the day, all of our beliefs are grounded in defeasible evidence. That, at least, we can know.

The term 'atheist' is one that I've often found a little unfortunate, as, to my mind, it describes a negative belief: someone who believes that there is no god (which one certainly can do even while admitting that there's no way to prove it). I define myself as a Bright (http://www.the-brights.net/): I believe that the world does not contain supernatural entities, or, if you want to turn that on its head, that this universe's most basic bits and phenomena (I count natural laws as bits) are sufficient for every thing and phenomenon to be found anywhere in this universe.

Actually, most reasonable people admit that this is the case, as it is really impossible to prove, beyond all shadow of doubt, virtually anything about the fundamental nature of the universe, including its provenance for/ having been created by/ being interfered with by/ whatever supernatural entities of any description. At the end of the day, all of our beliefs are grounded in defeasible evidence. That, at least, we can know.

The term 'atheist' is one that I've often found a little unfortunate, as, to my mind, it describes a negative belief: someone who believes that there is no god (which one certainly can do even while admitting that there's no way to prove it). I define myself as a Bright (http://www.the-brights.net/): I believe that the world does not contain supernatural entities, or, if you want to turn that on its head, that this universe's most basic bits and phenomena (I count natural laws as bits) are sufficient for every thing and phenomenon to be found anywhere in this universe.

No, an atheist does not "Believe there is no God". Atheism is just not believing in an supernatural entity because there is no reason to.

Look at it this way, if an Atheist had to consider god, he would also have to consider leprechauns, unicorns, magic beans etc.

Atheism is the blank stance.

I disagree: agnosticism is the blank, or as I would prefer, the non-stance. Atheism at least takes a stance.

That's my view, anyway.

I disagree: agnosticism is the blank, or as I would prefer, the non-stance. Atheism at least takes a stance.

That's my view, anyway.
Atheism is not denial of a god.

Agnosticism, or atleast in its classic meaning, means you cannot obtain knowledge of anything.

That is to say, not only can we never know if a god exists, but we cannot know if this apple really is red.

Also: 'Atheist' applies strictly to theism-- not to any other kind of supernaturalist belief, such as the belief that I can never find my bloody keys because those damnable fairies keep nicking them. That's another reason I prefer the blanket positive term for the belief that the world is devoid of supernatural influence.

Atheism is not denial of a god.

Agnosticism, or atleast in its classic meaning, means you cannot obtain knowledge of anything.

That is to say, not only can we never know if a god exists, but we cannot know if this apple really is red.

Quite correct, though the proper term for this ought to be 'sceptic'. There's several hundred years of philosophical argument, but as far as our epistemology goes, the sceptics win ever round we go absloutist, so the question for us who have abstracted ourselves from the abstract is: in what have we reason to believe?

I know I call myself an atheist. But not because I actively believe there is no God. It's because there is no reason to believe. There are no compelling evidence that would cause me to do it. So, if I were to consider God, I'd have to consider Leprechauns, unicorns, elves, faires. The list goes on.

I find Atheists are generally Agnostics with too much pride.

I find Atheists are generally Agnostics with too much pride.
I find you are a bag filled with douche.

I know I call myself an atheist. But not because I actively believe there is no God. It's because there is no reason to believe. There are no compelling evidence that would cause me to do it. So, if I were to consider God, I'd have to consider Leprechauns, unicorns, elves, faires. The list goes on.

I think that's perfectly reasonable. Actually. I think I may be changing my opinion on what constitutes atheism: I was raised by cultists in a society that would not tolerate anything but theism, and I rejected that, much to my pain, so I have a weird take on it. I've since shifted continent, and many people I know now never have had to deal with the question, and they're 'natural atheists', as it were. As for myself, I am a hopeless pedant, and I have to have as much clarity as possible with my categories. 'Atheist', while descriptive, has too much societal baggage as well as not cutting it for me.

I find Atheists are generally Agnostics with too much pride.
i find that agnostics are atheists who are too afraid to admit that god doesnt exist.

Actually, most reasonable people admit that this is the case, as it is really impossible to prove, beyond all shadow of doubt, virtually anything about the fundamental nature of the universe, including its provenance for/ having been created by/ being interfered with by/ whatever supernatural entities of any description. At the end of the day, all of our beliefs are grounded in defeasible evidence. That, at least, we can know.


You know, if you'd posted this in the thread "this is why atheistism exists", it would have made things a lot simpler....

You know, if you'd posted this in the thread "this is why atheistism exists", it would have made things a lot simpler....

My apologies. I'm not omnipresent. ;)

I think this is pretty simple, considering I know quite a few people who consider themselves "Atheist". It is that Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Many of the posters here are over analyzing this topic and making Atheism this complex belief. All the Atheists I know don't believe in god.

...And don't even metion unicorns.

Athiest in the UK doesn't mean "Don't believe in God"; here, it is taken to mean "Convinced that there is No God", which is probably a more literal interpretation.

I think we all need dictionaries.

My apologies. I'm not omnipresent. ;)

No apology necessary, I'm just glad to know there are some reasonable individuals on this board :)

...so the question for us who have abstracted ourselves from the abstract is: in what have we reason to believe?

In other words 'what is it constructive to believe in, and so how should we shape our epistemological systems to allow belief in those things'?

I think this is pretty simple, considering I know quite a few people who consider themselves "Atheist". It is that Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Many of the posters here are over analyzing this topic and making Atheism this complex belief. All the Atheists I know don't believe in god.

...And don't even metion unicorns.

Atheism is, as I have said before, the recogization of the truth that the physical world is the only world (that is spritiality/inherent morality/god est. do not exist).

What is complex is the material philosophies that Atheists use to construct their world view, meaning and purpose (all inherent moral systems having been disproven and the realization that the individual is the moral center of the universe, so to speak). No two Atheists look upon the world in the exact same way, another reason Atheism is not a religion.

There is Absurdism, Cynicism, Darwinism (that is the findings of science), Empiricism, Emotivism, Existentialism, Logical Positism, Socal Contract Theory, Secular Humanism, Utilitarianism (positive or negative), Pragmatism, Pessimistic thought, Egotism or anti-Egotism (depends), Libertarian thought verses Socialistic thought....

There is also Objectivism and Marxism, but they are considered ideologies (that is they tend to ignore truth in favor of their own preconcieved notions and exclude all other systems of interpreting/viewing the physical world), and thus I detest them.

So you see, being an Atheist is quite complex....

I think most people are existential agnostics. They don't know if god exists or not & just don't care but that could be a symptom from my catholic upbringing. After 16years of torture & brainwashing you just don't care anymore.

Athiest in the UK doesn't mean "Don't believe in God"; here, it is taken to mean "Convinced that there is No God", which is probably a more literal interpretation.
What is the difference between, "Don't believe in..." and "Convinced it doesn't exist..."?

You do realise this whole debate could probably be avoided if somebody looked it up on Wiki? ;)

Ah well, I won't spoil your fun. :)

You do realise this whole debate could probably be avoided if somebody looked it up on Wiki? ;)

Ah well, I won't spoil your fun. :)
Ah... No. If it was only that simple. Last I checked, Wiki had a ton of more or less conflicting definitions.

Anyway, to me, an Atheist is someone who does not believe in the divine. It in no way excludes belief in the supernatural and stuff like that, just divinity. It's perfectly possible to be a faithful (whatever) and still be an Atheist. Likewise, it's possible to be an Atheist Agnostic.

Personally I renounce all faith, execpt in mankind, so I'm an Atheist, of the non-religious sort.

I know I call myself an atheist. But not because I actively believe there is no God. It's because there is no reason to believe. There are no compelling evidence that would cause me to do it. So, if I were to consider God, I'd have to consider Leprechauns, unicorns, elves, faires. The list goes on.
Does not compute. There is no logical connection between God and fairies. See, most christians believe in God and his creation. The Bible, which documents this creation in this belief system, does not mention God creating any supernatural beings. Angels are the only supernaturals mentioned, and Angels=/unicorns.