NationStates Jolt Archive

I heard a GM commercial about three minutes ago where some person who worked for GM in the extent that the agency through which GM advertized hired him said, "At GM, we try to make the best vehicle possible"

WRONG!

Who here likes having their lights stay on after the car is off. all night. Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights, but another one of my freinds never turns the lights off in her Subaru. they turn off automaticly.
Now, I understand that people like to have the lights on to walk to the house, but if it takes you more than about three minutes, you either need a better parking spot, or should not be driving.

ALSO

Gas milege. Easier to improve than they like to say.
Mileage of a '79 Buick Electra- about 15-20 mpg
Mileage of an '05 Cadillac CTS-V sedan- about 15-23 mpg
26 years of new advances and ideas. Fuel injection. Streamlining. No improvements in gas mileage?
Oh, and also
Mileage of an '06 Subaru Sedan- 19-28. It ain't that hard' guys.

Cars that get good gas mileage are bad for the environment.

Oil is toxic. Spill it in a river, fish and seabirds die. Spill it in soil, plants and animals that eat the plants die. Inhale the vapors from it, you die. But if you transform the oil into gasoline and burn it in an internal combustion engine you get Carbon Dioxide. Carbon Dioxide makes the trees grow and is converted by plants into clean oxygen that we can breathe.

If you truly care for the earth buy a hummer H-1.

You're going to blame General Motors for your friends' Avalanche dying because HE'S a friggin moron?

That's the most faulty, craptastic logic I've ever experienced in this forum, and I tell you, I've seen rampant stupidity. "Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights..." it says it all.

And besides, there's more to GM than just the cars they make. They've constantly been rated as having the safest work environment and the best employee benefits of ANY international automobile company. The people that they have on their commercials, at least the Chevy and Pontiac commercials, ARE real employees, if it's in the factory scenes.

As for lights, I have a brand new Pontiac Grand Am and my lights automatically go off after 45 seconds. You know why? Because I wasn't a cheap bastard and I actually paid for that. Did your considerably more forgetful friend take this into consideration? Probably not. On my old Cavalier (Chevy, 2000 model) the lights went off automatically. On the car I had before that, a 1998 Buick Skylark, the lights would go off automatically as well. You still going to try to insinuate it's ALL General Motors cars that have this problem? 'Cause my dad works for them, he's one of the three final inspectors at the plant, he's been there for 30 years. I GUARANTEE you I could keep going with this.

I heard a GM commercial about three minutes ago where some person who worked for GM in the extent that the agency through which GM advertized hired him said, "At GM, we try to make the best vehicle possible"Maybe they're admitting that they're incompetent at making cars. That wouldn't necessarily be a lie. If they just don't know how to make better cars because they're to stupid to figure it out, at least they tried :p

Your friend is a tard. It's not that difficult to turn off your lights, and it's not that difficult to charge your battery either.

okay lets take a look at this GM makes tons of vehicles, they make hybrids and electric powered vehicles, no vehicle is perfect, you could say the same thing about a toyota or a ford but you are just bashing GM because of your friends problems-- if you want a vehicle that really runs go buy a bicycle

I heard a GM commercial about three minutes ago where some person who worked for GM in the extent that the agency through which GM advertized hired him said, "At GM, we try to make the best vehicle possible"

WRONG!

Who here likes having their lights stay on after the car is off. all night. Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights, but another one of my freinds never turns the lights off in her Subaru. they turn off automaticly.
Now, I understand that people like to have the lights on to walk to the house, but if it takes you more than about three minutes, you either need a better parking spot, or should not be driving.

ALSO

Gas milege. Easier to improve than they like to say.
Mileage of a '79 Buick Electra- about 15-20 mpg
Mileage of an '05 Cadillac CTS-V sedan- about 15-23 mpg
26 years of new advances and ideas. Fuel injection. Streamlining. No improvements in gas mileage?
Oh, and also
Mileage of an '06 Subaru Sedan- 19-28. It ain't that hard' guys.

Hmmm...my '05 GM car has battery rundown protection and gets about 50 mpg hwy. :confused:

I heard a GM commercial about three minutes ago where some person who worked for GM in the extent that the agency through which GM advertized hired him said, "At GM, we try to make the best vehicle possible"
That’s an opinion. You can’t really lie about an opinion you hold, unless you don’t actually hold that opinion. So, if GM actually thinks that it doesn’t make the best vehicle possible, then it’s a lie.
Also, a battery running low because someone left the lights on has nothing to do with the quality of the car.
Sorry for your loss, though. :(

Cars that get good gas mileage are bad for the environment.

Oil is toxic. Spill it in a river, fish and seabirds die. Spill it in soil, plants and animals that eat the plants die. Inhale the vapors from it, you die. But if you transform the oil into gasoline and burn it in an internal combustion engine you get Carbon Dioxide. Carbon Dioxide makes the trees grow and is converted by plants into clean oxygen that we can breathe.

If you truly care for the earth buy a hummer H-1.
Monoxide.

Simonist']You're going to blame General Motors for your friends' Avalanche dying because HE'S a friggin moron?

That's the most faulty, craptastic logic I've ever experienced in this forum, and I tell you, I've seen rampant stupidity. "Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights..." it says it all.

And besides, there's more to GM than just the cars they make. They've constantly been rated as having the safest work environment and the best employee benefits of ANY international automobile company. The people that they have on their commercials, at least the Chevy and Pontiac commercials, ARE real employees, if it's in the factory scenes.

As for lights, I have a brand new Pontiac Grand Am and my lights automatically go off after 45 seconds. You know why? Because I wasn't a cheap bastard and I actually paid for that. Did your considerably more forgetful friend take this into consideration? Probably not. On my old Cavalier (Chevy, 2000 model) the lights went off automatically. On the car I had before that, a 1998 Buick Skylark, the lights would go off automatically as well. You still going to try to insinuate it's ALL General Motors cars that have this problem? 'Cause my dad works for them, he's one of the three final inspectors at the plant, he's been there for 30 years. I GUARANTEE you I could keep going with this.

Haha, what a retard... Your opinion is biased. Just becuase your 'daddy' has been inspecting cars for 30 years, just means that he has been inspecting cheap piles for 30 years. Part of being a good company is finding ways in making options like the auto turn off lights STANDARD. That shouldnt be something you have to pay for, or think about adding. I can name dozens of car companies, mainly foreign auto makers that include little options like this as a standard, and still manage to offer the vehicle for less than your average GM model. You can compare any GM model to a comparable type vehicle, and every single time, the German and Japanese automakers wipe the floor with GM EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. The Japanese and Germans have engineered vehicles that A. Are mostly cheaper than american, namely GM. B. Have more standard options than GM. C. Last longer, and have less problems based upon Consumer Reports and JD Power studies (go ahead and look it up... all of GM's models rate poorer than Foreign makers. D. Almost ALWAYS have an ugly generic styling when compared to foreign autos (take a look at the new impala, the pretty new "cobalt", the hiddeous corvettes, the AVALANCHE... haha wtf. ).

I get a better car with more options and better styling for less if I buy a foreign car. American auto makers just fall short. GM has been falling short for decades... This is why they offer the "employee discount" on their vehicles in hopes to spark intrest in sales... Take a look at the stocks from GM over the past 8 years... Toyota offered to "raise the cost of their cars to help GM with their budget problems"

GM is an old and tired company, buddy... Step off your biased defensive position and actually sit back and look at the trends in the past decades... Look at how unoriginal GM is.

Cars that get good gas mileage are bad for the environment.

Oil is toxic. Spill it in a river, fish and seabirds die. Spill it in soil, plants and animals that eat the plants die. Inhale the vapors from it, you die. But if you transform the oil into gasoline and burn it in an internal combustion engine you get Carbon Dioxide. Carbon Dioxide makes the trees grow and is converted by plants into clean oxygen that we can breathe.

If you truly care for the earth buy a hummer H-1.

Breath for 10 minutes... You have effectivly created enough carb dioxide to supply 15 acres of thick forrests with all they need to survive for days.

You telling me that exhaust emissions are GOOD for the enviornment is like asking somebody to cut off their arms and legs to loose weight.

Ohhh I forgot to add.... You get a cavalier steering wheel when you pay 50G for a corvette...

one of the few things you are correct in is that the german and jap cars are generally better than US cars, however they are designed for utterly different roads, in america you have big wide straight roads, here in the UK the biggest bits of straight tarmac are called runways!

however blaiming a company for your mates flat battery is like blaiming the weather man because its raining!

Your friend is a tard. It's not that difficult to turn off your lights, and it's not that difficult to charge your battery either.

We are not denying the fact that he is a retard... The question presented is comparing GM to other makers that offer this option as standard. If we can put a man on the moon and geneticly engineer crap, don't you think we shouldnt have to turn off our lights or charge our batteries in the first place? Think about it.... I complete agree with the original question, allthought I think it's pretty funny that he left the lights on.... OWNED!

Like...don't vehicles nowadays have a warning chime for the headlights???

one of the few things you are correct in is that the german and jap cars are generally better than US cars, however they are designed for utterly different roads, in america you have big wide straight roads, here in the UK the biggest bits of straight tarmac are called runways!

however blaiming a company for your mates flat battery is like blaiming the weather man because its raining!

Pretty much 95% of the japanese and german cars you see in the United States were engineered for the conditions in the states.... Of course, technology from the european and asian cars are shared with the US counterparts, but there are many differences. You are full of crap if you think "i am only correct on this" claim. I'm not asking you to believe me... Look at the fact yourself. http://www.google.com FACTS all over the internet, use google to find them.

Monoxide.

Carbon dioxide (CO²).
Carbon monoxide (CO) is the gas produced during combustion when there's a lack of oxygen. The latter is necessary for plant life, while the former has no business whatsoever in the atmosphere!

However, carbon dioxide contributes to global warming. A major nuisance.

Sadly, that's not all a combustion engine emits though. There are other far more toxic gasses in the exhaust.

I suggest Kedalfax' friend buys a Volvo. Those produced in 98 and onwards will gladly light the way for you when you've locked it.

Haha, what a retard... Your opinion is biased. Just becuase your 'daddy' has been inspecting cars for 30 years, just means that he has been inspecting cheap piles for 30 years.

You missed his point. Read back over what he said.

You can compare any GM model to a comparable type vehicle, and every single time, the German and Japanese automakers wipe the floor with GM EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Yea, our minimum wage laws are too high, aren't they?

This is why they offer the "employee discount" on their vehicles in hopes to spark intrest in sales...

Well, friend, that sale was enormously successful.

You missed his point. Read back over what he said.



Yea, our minimum wage laws are too high, aren't they?



Well, friend, that sale was enormously successful.


Yeah... try working a 40 hour week on american minimum wage, and try to buy a new car and pay for full coverage insurance at the same time.... Pretty sure if you actually want to live under a roof, you might want to pull out 2 or 3 40 hour/week jobs. I make 3 times the american minimum wage, live in a 2 bedroom apartment, and I am STILL struggling to live cheaply.

Pretty sad when you actually have to drasticly reduce the sale price of a car to make it sell... the japs and germans never have a problem with this. This tactic was to get the assembly plants back up to PAR production, save jobs, and move old inventory... Not to make money. Allthough this is very noble of GM to do this, still shows the weakness in the company.

Pretty much 95% of the japanese and german cars you see in the United States were engineered for the conditions in the states.... Of course, technology from the european and asian cars are shared with the US counterparts, but there are many differences. You are full of crap if you think "i am only correct on this" claim. I'm not asking you to believe me... Look at the fact yourself. http://www.google.com FACTS all over the internet, use google to find them.

yes the suspension settings are changed but thats about it!

as for sending me to google to get all the facts, i think you are living proof that the internet is also full of shit!

yes the suspension settings are changed but thats about it!

as for sending me to google to get all the facts, i think you are living proof that the internet is also full of shit!

Buddy don't make me cite all my claims... I don't have time to convince somebody that thinks the internet is full of sh**.... If you are too lazy to get off your lazy brittish behind, and use google to sift through the sh** then you are not worth the argument.

First of all, almost all german cars are down tuned in every aspect before they are offered for sale in the US, such as Lower performing engines, Speed limiters, etc... The only reason the accord, civic, corolla, camry, maxima and altima are around today is because of the american market. These are american cars made by japanese companies and are not really changed at all to be offered in the US

Buddy don't make me cite all my claims... I don't have time to convince somebody that thinks the internet is full of sh**.... If you are too lazy to get off your lazy brittish behind, and use google to sift through the sh** then you are not worth the argument.


i use the internet hourly to find facts for my job thanks very much, i just find it interesting that you wont post any facts about your theory that cars that do less mpg are actually more environmentally friendly! or that one of the worlds biggest companies is shit because your mate forgot to turn his lights off!


First of all, almost all german cars are down tuned in every aspect before they are offered for sale in the US, such as Lower performing engines, Speed limiters, etc... The only reason the accord, civic, corolla, camry, maxima and altima are around today is because of the american market. These are american cars made by japanese companies and are not really changed at all to be offered in the US

so the civic being one of the strongest sellers in most of europe has no effect on honda continueing to sell it? or the fact that the corolla is one of the biggest selling cars of all time has something to do with toyota continueing to sell it?

however when you talk about maxima and altima you have a point as they are not sold in europe! hence designed for american market

If american cars are all so great, then why aren't there more of them on the roads outside of said country? The only modern american cars I've seen in greater numbers in Europe are naturally Fords, but also a few Chrysler Voyagers.

Buick?
Chevrolet?
Cadillac? (I've seen one modern model.. and it had diplomat's plates)
GMC?
Pontiac?

Is it a marketing thing?
Or can those five brands simply not compete with our European or Asian makers? ;)

:sniper: "the meek shall inherit the earth" its posts like this one that make me realize this will probably come true....anyway the fact that he left his lights on happens all the time,but i owned a couple of toyotas and guess what they had? a MANUAL transmission....i could forget about the lights all i wanted and wow if the battery was dead, i could push start...besides that i dont hear too many GMs going over 300000 miles without ever being rebuilt or in the manual tranny case needing to replace the clutch....plus all of mine got 30 mpg or better,so your friend probably should have bought a toyota and used the money he saved and put it towards a brain transplant....lol :headbang:

Buick?
Chevrolet?
Cadillac? (I've seen one modern model.. and it had diplomat's plates)
GMC?
Pontiac?

GMC is called Holden GM in Australia - and is one of the two big car manufacturers here, no pontiacs or Buicks at all, some Jeeps (Chryslers, i think) the rest not to my knowledge.

i use the internet hourly to find facts for my job thanks very much, i just find it interesting that you wont post any facts about your theory that cars that do less mpg are actually more environmentally friendly! or that one of the worlds biggest companies is shit because your mate forgot to turn his lights off!



so the civic being one of the strongest sellers in most of europe has no effect on honda continueing to sell it? or the fact that the corolla is one of the biggest selling cars of all time has something to do with toyota continueing to sell it?

however when you talk about maxima and altima you have a point as they are not sold in europe! hence designed for american market

Civic, Accord and Corolla sales in the US probably out number all japanese car sales in the UK... Just because it's a strong seller doesnt, by any reason or logic mean that the actual number of sales is anywhere NEAR the same as civic sales in the US. Also... civic.... ONE of the strongest sellers in the UK... certainly not the strongest. You have to compare apples to apples... Of course a base line honda is going to sell better than a V10 BMW or a Chevy Suburban. What about Volkswagen? Pretty sure Volkswagen diesels outnumber civics in the uk, don't you think? Just because a car sells, in more than one country doesnt mean it wasnt designed for a specific market. Civic/Corolla = Cheap to buy and economical and that is what the americans are buying most of right now.

one of the few things you are correct in is that the german and jap cars are generally better than US cars, however they are designed for utterly different roads, in america you have big wide straight roads, here in the UK the biggest bits of straight tarmac are called runways!

however blaiming a company for your mates flat battery is like blaiming the weather man because its raining!
Good point. Always buy a car which is designed for the conditions (weather, roads etc) you'll use it. Try parking an old Chevy in Florence or drive the forest "road" to cottage with Lancia.

GMC is called Holden GM in Australia - and is one of the two big car manufacturers here, no pontiacs or Buicks at all, some Jeeps (Chryslers, i think) the rest not to my knowledge.

My apologies. I forgot about the Aussies. Now that you mention it though, there's a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the garage.
Still doesn't answer my question of why there are so few american cars in Europe. :)
Cos the yanks seem to be keen on most European and Asian cars..

My apologies. I forgot about the Aussies. Now that you mention it though, there's a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the garage.
Still doesn't answer my question of why there are so few american cars in Europe. :)
Cos the yanks seem to be keen on most European and Asian cars..
It could be a tax thing...

besides that i dont hear too many GMs going over 300000 miles without ever being rebuilt or in the manual tranny case needing to replace the clutch....

Yeah... I live in america, and I have NEVER seen a GM vehicle make it to 300,000 miles unless it was a daily highway commuter.... I have a Volksagen Rabbit diesel in the driveway with 412,000 miles on it.

American cars were built to fail. There are actual parts in GM cars like, the water pump for instance... It has a plastic impeller that is designed to fail (come off the metal shaft, which would render the pump dead). The impeller is designed to fail at around 50,000 miles. That's a FACT look it up. Why? Because GM makes wayyyy too much money on selling parts, and repairing vehicles. The American Economy and per capita income makes a horrendous practice like this possible. GM takes advantage of the money that most americans have. Most foreign automakers still care about making a good car.... The new japanes trucks making their way into the us is seriously going to make GM, Ford, etc really rethink the way they make trucks... The tacoma is killing ford in ranger sales, and GM in S-10, and "colorado" sales... Now the japs bring over these full size v8 trucks... watch out GM/Ford, just watch out.

For those of you who buy american cars "to support america" take your VIN and find out where it was made... Bet you it was made in Mexico... Right along with the japanses and some german cars. GM is the worst company in the worst country for cars (with France and Korea excluded)

It could be a tax thing...
Plus the fact that most of them are too big and have a lousy mileage

Plus the fact that most of them are too big and have a lousy mileage

Yeah... Again, the american car is designed to take advantage of the money that americans have... that and the fact that gasoline is $2.30/gallon (about 60 cents/litre)... The rising gasoline and diesel prices are going to force automakers to make their cars more fuel efficient.... To my understanding fuel is about 6 dollars per gallon in some parts of europe... Do you really want to be sporting around a v8 suburban that gets 15/gallon? Or even a V6 Grand Am that gets 22/mpg?

No... American cars simply have no place in this kind of area, and this is what makes GM and other "yankee" automakers obsolete in todays world. It makes no sense to buy anything other than a european or asian vehicle.

I don't know much about cars, stateside or overseas... My bike is italian. I get 70 MPG, perform flawlessly on curves or straightaways, and never have to worry about parking.

Personally, I don't see how I ever was allured by cars... Eventually, I'll probably need to shift kids around, but for now, I'm thrilled with my machine.

you know.. when you buy Cars from another country, you are helping to kill America's economy, now thats patriotic.. i forgot how much % of TOTAL jobs in America is related to making CARS? .. i KNOW its over 10% and i THINK its even over 20%..

dont forget, its not only the Desingers, and the guys in the plants that build the cars, its also all the guys who makes parts for the cars, and the guys who drive the trucsk betwen the Supliers and the Plant that make them.. and so on and so on..

you know.. when you buy Cars from another country, you are helping to kill America's economy, now thats patriotic.. i forgot how much % of TOTAL jobs in America is related to making CARS? .. i KNOW its over 10% and i THINK its even over 20%..

dont forget, its not only the Desingers, and the guys in the plants that build the cars, its also all the guys who makes parts for the cars, and the guys who drive the trucsk betwen the Supliers and the Plant that make them.. and so on and so on..

I'm not going to buy a crappy car just to support the company or the country that, that company just so happens to be in... If american automakers made the cars I want, then I would buy them. I choose not to buy low performing, ugly, overpriced piles of metal. I am very patriotic, and I love this country, but you are forgetting all the jobs that foreign companies create.... TOYOTA of america, HONDA of America, etc... The actuall production of parts and assembly of almost all the cars in the US occurs in MEXICO... Puebla mexico is a big area for that.

I may be helping to kill the american economy, but this foreign stuff has been a problem to american automakers since the late 40's... don't gimme that crap. The war with Iraq wouldnt have anything to do with our economy sucking, now would it? :) It wouldnt have anything to do with bush's agenda to make it cheaper to outsource to china for steel production... Or his multi billion dollar tax cut, now eh?

you know.. when you buy Cars from another country, you are helping to kill America's economy, now thats patriotic.. i forgot how much % of TOTAL jobs in America is related to making CARS? .. i KNOW its over 10% and i THINK its even over 20%..

dont forget, its not only the Desingers, and the guys in the plants that build the cars, its also all the guys who makes parts for the cars, and the guys who drive the trucsk betwen the Supliers and the Plant that make them.. and so on and so on..

Then American car companies need to reassert themselves; actually produce cars that the consumer wants. Free market capitalism, baby.

you know.. when you buy Cars from another country, you are helping to kill America's economy, now thats patriotic.. i forgot how much % of TOTAL jobs in America is related to making CARS? .. i KNOW its over 10% and i THINK its even over 20%..

If America's economy revolves around making crappy stuff that breaks down so they can sell parts and gas every couple of miles, it deserves to tank. Anyone with an inkling of business knowledge will tell you that when you make crappy stuff, it doesn't sell when there are better alternatives at the same price.

Patriotism has no place in the business world. Remember that.

I used to work for GM in the 90's, building Barettas and I think Luminas... and if I remember rightly the transmissions were imported from Germany and the engines were imported from Mexico. Odds are a GM car doesn't have much more American made parts in it than a Toyota does.

The politicians do need to crack down on Detroit big time to help make us less dependant on oil, but other than that I don't see the big deal. I've driven exclusively GM cars and they don't seem to run any worse than other cars do. Complaining that the lights don't shut off automatically, or that the car doesn't have some other free luxury that doesnt affect your ability to get from A to B is retarded.

While we're on the topic, why not cut back on the dependancy on cars altogether? What happened to walking or riding a bicycle? Most of the streets where I live in the US don't even have sidewalks, let alone bike lanes.

lol cuz its really annoying, i cant say for the rest of europe but in the UK there are bus lanes and cycle lanes in every town and city, its soooooooo annoying for the rest of us.

as for the economy thing if a car over here gets 30mpg its doing badly, i believe one of peugeots new upcoming desils will do 60mpg on average (so more on a long run)! personally my car does 45ish mpg, and i can still hardly afford to run it with the cost of petrol.

Carbon dioxide (CO²).
Carbon monoxide (CO) is the gas produced during combustion when there's a lack of oxygen. The latter is necessary for plant life, while the former has no business whatsoever in the atmosphere!

However, carbon dioxide contributes to global warming. A major nuisance.


Ummm. . . a bit backwards there. Carbon dioxide (the former) is what is used by plants.

Haha, what a retard... Your opinion is biased. Just becuase your 'daddy' has been inspecting cars for 30 years, just means that he has been inspecting cheap piles for 30 years. Part of being a good company is finding ways in making options like the auto turn off lights STANDARD. That shouldnt be something you have to pay for, or think about adding. I can name dozens of car companies, mainly foreign auto makers that include little options like this as a standard, and still manage to offer the vehicle for less than your average GM model. You can compare any GM model to a comparable type vehicle, and every single time, the German and Japanese automakers wipe the floor with GM EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. The Japanese and Germans have engineered vehicles that A. Are mostly cheaper than american, namely GM. B. Have more standard options than GM. C. Last longer, and have less problems based upon Consumer Reports and JD Power studies (go ahead and look it up... all of GM's models rate poorer than Foreign makers. D. Almost ALWAYS have an ugly generic styling when compared to foreign autos (take a look at the new impala, the pretty new "cobalt", the hiddeous corvettes, the AVALANCHE... haha wtf. ).

I get a better car with more options and better styling for less if I buy a foreign car. American auto makers just fall short. GM has been falling short for decades... This is why they offer the "employee discount" on their vehicles in hopes to spark intrest in sales... Take a look at the stocks from GM over the past 8 years... Toyota offered to "raise the cost of their cars to help GM with their budget problems"

GM is an old and tired company, buddy... Step off your biased defensive position and actually sit back and look at the trends in the past decades... Look at how unoriginal GM is.
Nice try, tard. I said I paid extra for it on my Pontiac.....otherwise, it is a standard feature. And if GM has been "falling short" for "decades", please explain to me how, without the assistance of the Employee Discount, they came up with J.D. Powers and Associates' award for the Malibu the past two years. Hrm. Kinda makes ya wonder. Furthermore, none of their employees, at least not in our region, even have to worry about minimum wage, the VERY least they get is called "living minimum" -- an idea I'm sure you're probably not prepared to learn about, but Google it anyway if you wish -- which, along with Union costs and overall costs of manning the plants with humans rather than robots, drives up the price of the car.

Futhermore, GM also owns Holden (already mentioned), Saab (a "foreign" car company), Opel (something I've ONLY ever seen outside of the US, unless somebody bought it specialty), Hummer (something somebody pointed out as competition, I suppose), Vauxhall (another I've never seen in US), and guess what else. You all wanna get bitchy about the Subaru being better than the GM models? Too friggin bad -- if it was a 2001 model or later, then it's pretty much the same technology. GM is in what's corporately known as a "strategic market alliance" (another term that may break your brain) with Subaru, Isuzu, and Suzuki. That means they all trade auto secrets and use the best of what the others have. Subaru's also in with Suzuki, who's probably in with Isuzu, and so forth. And for Toyota, we're talking about the people who own Daihatsu. Whether or not the Lexus is a gift to the upper-middle class, I mean, come on....I'm not putting stock in the shareholders of a piddly little Daihatsu ANY day of the week.

Furthermore, about this whole mpg problem.....my Pontiac gets about 45/mpg, even my old Buick got about 35/mpg by the time I scrapped it (and by "old" and "scrapped" I mean it was a '98 and I got bored with it in half a year and bought another car), so chances are if your car is only making 22/mpg, there's something wrong with the engine. Either that, or you're pretty dumb for BUYING a car like that and then complaining over it. Furthermore, why don't you quit bitching and invest the $150 it takes to translate your system over to an alternative fuel source engine? One-time investment, it can run on friggin GREASE. Or, buy ethanol. Either way, quit complaining about something which you intend to do nothing about.

So tell me, why is nobody complaining over the GM military use vehicles? What, what, no complaints? Or did nobody do any real research into General Motors before they ignorantly start posting opinions as if they're God-given truth?

As for a "biased opinion", I'll openly admit that I prefer German cars to American cars, but that's because I live in one of the most affluent counties in the country, and the impression we got as kids growing up was that either you get a new car every few years (my plan so far) or you get a really nice, really expensive Mercedes or BMW (at least those are what the "poor" people around here drive) and just drive it carefully so you won't HAVE to replace or repair it. I, not surprisingly, went for the GM cars because I get a life-long discount on cars AND parts/services, so on the off-chance that I get in an incident, my ass is covered. Right now I'm too young and reckless to worry about the condition of the body of my car, which is why if it gets scratched or damaged I'll probably just buy a new car. Once I'm finished up with college, I'll probably start surfing the world market, or maybe at least buy a Vauxhall (I've had a mind-blowing infatuation with the New Tigra for a few months now), but that's at least two years that I'll still have to worry about people blowing smoke out their asses because they don't know what it's like from the inside of the automobile corporate world.

Oh yeah, and I'm a girl. I've never met another boy so prissy about cars, but I dunno, maybe it's different in the regions of the country that I dare not reside.

I drive a '96 GMC Ext Cab Sierra. I'm lucky to get 15mpg these days because of mods I've done to the engine. When I bought the truck, I got 18-20mpg - not bad for a '96 full-size truck. I can definately attest to the sturdiness of the truck, I've taken it places most 4x4 owners would be scared to go. And, I can pull more and cart more in that truck than in any foreign V8 out there.

If I was really concerned about gas mileage, I'd drop the money to put a more fuel efficient engine in the truck. GM's newer LS1 based engines make more power than their foreign counterparts and do so making approxmiately the same gas mileage.

GM also has vehicles that get the same gas mileage as European counterparts, however, since GM owns a number of those European counterparts, they feel no need to push the same vehicles overseas...but, that's probably just good marketing / business practices...

I heard a GM commercial about three minutes ago where some person who worked for GM in the extent that the agency through which GM advertized hired him said, "At GM, we try to make the best vehicle possible"

WRONG!

Who here likes having their lights stay on after the car is off. all night. Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights, but another one of my freinds never turns the lights off in her Subaru. they turn off automaticly.
Now, I understand that people like to have the lights on to walk to the house, but if it takes you more than about three minutes, you either need a better parking spot, or should not be driving.

ALSO

Gas milege. Easier to improve than they like to say.
Mileage of a '79 Buick Electra- about 15-20 mpg
Mileage of an '05 Cadillac CTS-V sedan- about 15-23 mpg
26 years of new advances and ideas. Fuel injection. Streamlining. No improvements in gas mileage?
Oh, and also
Mileage of an '06 Subaru Sedan- 19-28. It ain't that hard' guys.


A commercial wasn't 100% truthful!

Shocking! :eek:

Haha, what a retard... Your opinion is biased. Just becuase your 'daddy' has been inspecting cars for 30 years, just means that he has been inspecting cheap piles for 30 years. Part of being a good company is finding ways in making options like the auto turn off lights STANDARD. That shouldnt be something you have to pay for, or think about adding. I can name dozens of car companies, mainly foreign auto makers that include little options like this as a standard, and still manage to offer the vehicle for less than your average GM model. You can compare any GM model to a comparable type vehicle, and every single time, the German and Japanese automakers wipe the floor with GM EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. The Japanese and Germans have engineered vehicles that A. Are mostly cheaper than american, namely GM. B. Have more standard options than GM. C. Last longer, and have less problems based upon Consumer Reports and JD Power studies (go ahead and look it up... all of GM's models rate poorer than Foreign makers. D. Almost ALWAYS have an ugly generic styling when compared to foreign autos (take a look at the new impala, the pretty new "cobalt", the hiddeous corvettes, the AVALANCHE... haha wtf. ).

I get a better car with more options and better styling for less if I buy a foreign car. American auto makers just fall short. GM has been falling short for decades... This is why they offer the "employee discount" on their vehicles in hopes to spark intrest in sales... Take a look at the stocks from GM over the past 8 years... Toyota offered to "raise the cost of their cars to help GM with their budget problems"

GM is an old and tired company, buddy... Step off your biased defensive position and actually sit back and look at the trends in the past decades... Look at how unoriginal GM is.

Foreign car companies have no customer service at all. once you buy the car, you're fucked, and will never get any worthwhile help. That is enough of a reason to avoid them for me. I am all for FORD though.

:sniper: "the meek shall inherit the earth" its posts like this one that make me realize this will probably come true....anyway the fact that he left his lights on happens all the time,but i owned a couple of toyotas and guess what they had? a MANUAL transmission....i could forget about the lights all i wanted and wow if the battery was dead, i could push start...besides that i dont hear too many GMs going over 300000 miles without ever being rebuilt or in the manual tranny case needing to replace the clutch....plus all of mine got 30 mpg or better,so your friend probably should have bought a toyota and used the money he saved and put it towards a brain transplant....lol :headbang:
You have to meet my mom man, she drives cars into the GROUND. I think her last suburban was traded in after 415,000 miles or so. Her new car is at 185,000 now.

Simonist']

Futhermore, GM also owns Holden (already mentioned), Saab (a "foreign" car company), Opel (something I've ONLY ever seen outside of the US, unless somebody bought it specialty), Hummer (something somebody pointed out as competition, I suppose), Vauxhall (another I've never seen in US)
Vauxhall and Opel are the same thing. Opels are called Vauxhalls in some countries. Same models, same cars.

Foreign car companies have no customer service at all. once you buy the car, you're fucked, and will never get any worthwhile help. That is enough of a reason to avoid them for me. I am all for FORD though.
Ford's good in my eyes, for everybody else, but I'm permanently imbittered. My sister's gone through three of them, all "gently used", and without fail after about a year and a half things start going wrong. Usually while I'm in the car. Trying to get somewhere important.

However, in this case, I'm pretty sure that's the fault of the driver as well :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, except the Mustangs. My boyfriend has a '72, I'm preparing to buy a '69, my uncle has a '68, a '71, and just bought a brand new one as well. That's a car I can both love for the body and respect for the guts.

Who here likes having their lights stay on after the car is off. all night. Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights, but another one of my freinds never turns the lights off in her Subaru. they turn off automaticly.
Now, I understand that people like to have the lights on to walk to the house, but if it takes you more than about three minutes, you either need a better parking spot, or should not be driving.

Whether a car turns it's lights on or off automatically has extremely minimal relations to how good of a car it is. My Honda Civic doesn't even so much as remind you when you left the lights on much less turn it off and I'm still going to argue it's the best small car there is.

Although the most honest thing I've seen in a car commercial was from Chrysler - "If you can find a better car, buy it." And thus I did and so did my family, which is why we have always had nothing but Hondas, Toyotas, and GMs =P

Just last night my friend's battery in his Avalanche died because he forgot to turn off his lights, but another one of my freinds never turns the lights off in her Subaru. they turn off automaticly.



Did your friend have the lights set on auto, or did he just have them on? Big difference there.

Did your friend have the lights set on auto, or did he just have them on? Big difference there.
This reminded me of something else, as well.

A lot of GM's newer cars have the lights automatically on whenever the car is in gear, and are set to turn off half a minute or something after the car is parked and turned off. He could have flipped the switch to "on" and not noticed, thereby causing the battery to run down, but I still think the chances are that the notification ding would tip him off to something.

But then, I wouldn't be caught dead in something as ugly as an Avalanche, so I can't speak for how they work.

Cars that get good gas mileage are bad for the environment.

Oil is toxic. Spill it in a river, fish and seabirds die. Spill it in soil, plants and animals that eat the plants die. Inhale the vapors from it, you die. But if you transform the oil into gasoline and burn it in an internal combustion engine you get Carbon Dioxide. Carbon Dioxide makes the trees grow and is converted by plants into clean oxygen that we can breathe.

If you truly care for the earth buy a hummer H-1.

that has got to be the most horrifically inaccurate statement I have heard in my life.... wow.

Plants don't need a lot of carbon dioxide to survive, but by driving cars we're spilling so much into the atmosphere and creating such a chemical imbalance it's going to cause the atmoshpere to retain heat and therefore cause mass climate changes and the like.

Also, burning gasoline produces excess amounts of carbon monoxide which is highly, highly, HIGHLY poisonous.

My grandpa had a '78 Chevy truck that lasted half a million miles and never had a problem. He also had a '66 Jaguar that was in the shop once a year.

And his new truck, an '02, hasn't had any problems either, it is has 60k miles on it. Neither has my aunt's Mustang V6, my mom's Escape XLT, my grandma's Mountaineer V8 AWD, or my dad's old Ford Tempo. It has almost 200k miles.

And yet, my other aunt's Kia nearly got her killed due to faulty brakes. By the time that happened, it was on its 2nd engine, 2nd transmission, 3rd transfer case, and 2nd front and rear axles. The brakes had to be repaired the day after she got it. The sunroof jammed. The fog lamps had a faulty wiring system. I could go on. And my friend's Civic had a big problem with the front suspension we he got it. Oh, I almost forgot about my aunt's old Accord, which got smashed like a bug when it hit a tree because it couldn't get an ounce of traction on a wet road. It was only 3 years old.

I've heard numerous stories of late '80s diesel-powered Dodge trucks lasted 1 million miles, and grossing 15 tons when fully loaded. Those wimpy Toyota trucks that are shorter than I am couldn;t do that.

We may have just had bad experiences with imports, but in every case the haven't met our standard for quality.

Oh, I almost forgot:

1963 PLYMOUTH FURY SEDAN: 1,700,000 miles!!! And still running when it was totalled by a big rig.

Patriotism has no place in the business world. Remember that.

Which is why I'm donating my entire salary to the Taliban so they can recover!

okay lets take a look at this GM makes tons of vehicles, they make hybrids and electric powered vehicles, no vehicle is perfect, you could say the same thing about a toyota or a ford but you are just bashing GM because of your friends problems-- if you want a vehicle that really runs go buy a bicycle
no, bicycles don't run, they pedal. if you want a vehicle that really runs get a horse and buggy. or would that be considered gallops?

no, bicycles don't run, they pedal. if you want a vehicle that really runs get a horse and buggy. or would that be considered gallops?
I prefer mine at a steady trot, personally.

Cars that get good gas mileage are bad for the environment.

Oil is toxic. Spill it in a river, fish and seabirds die. Spill it in soil, plants and animals that eat the plants die. Inhale the vapors from it, you die. But if you transform the oil into gasoline and burn it in an internal combustion engine you get Carbon Dioxide. Carbon Dioxide makes the trees grow and is converted by plants into clean oxygen that we can breathe.

If you truly care for the earth buy a hummer H-1.
Carbon Monoxide is produced. Which kills pants and animals, as well as causes massive enviromental problems.

Which is why I'm donating my entire salary to the Taliban so they can recover!

I fail to see how investing in a rebel group (which they are now), with no plans for recreating a working economy or profit plan is a sound business expenditure. Go back to economics school.

Monoxide.
Carbon monoxide is only produced in small quantities if you maintain your car properly.

If american cars are all so great, then why aren't there more of them on the roads outside of said country? The only modern american cars I've seen in greater numbers in Europe are naturally Fords, but also a few Chrysler Voyagers.

Buick?
Chevrolet?
Cadillac? (I've seen one modern model.. and it had diplomat's plates)
GMC?
Pontiac?

Is it a marketing thing?
Or can those five brands simply not compete with our European or Asian makers? ;)

Chevrolet do actually market some cars in the EU; I can think of at least four different models they retail here, including the fairly new 'Kalos' supermini.
Cadillac market at least two cars in the EU; the 'CTS' and the 'XLR', both of which are fairly high-end, but poorly-received models.
GMC doesn't have a badge presence in the EU that I'm aware of, but they do own several EU-based badges instead. Saab, I believe, is one of them. GM cars are generally too inefficient to be affordable in the EU, and may even break some emissions laws there. Why they don't do what Ford has done is beyond me, but that's up to them.
I don't know of any Pontiac cars in the EU that haven't been individually imported, however, nor any Buicks.

None of these brands are very popular, however, nor are they usually well-received. A large portion of American cars score very low with reviewers in the EU, mostly with complaints about their handling and their interior quality. As I recall, even the latest Mustang had some handling complaints with EU reviewers.

Ford is obviously the biggest American badge presence in the EU, but surprisingly, I think only the Focus is sold both the States AND the EU. Check the product list on the US Ford website and an EU Ford website to compare them.
Most cars they sell in the EU are actually made in and for the EU; for example, the latest Fiesta is made in Spain (appropriately enough). The EU equivalent of the Taurus seems to be the Mondeo, which looks significantly different and uses completely different engines -- certain diesel Mondeo Zetecs actually use prototype Jaguar diesels, for instance.

I think Chevrolet does the same. The reasoning probably lies with the inefficient nature of a lot of American car engines -- using twice the fuel to achieve the same power -- and the price of fuel and tax in the EU. As well as simple design tastes being different.

wow so GM lied?
omg GM lied?
this has got to be the first time in an ad a corporation has ever lied!
omg alert the media!!!!!
95% OF ADS ARE LIES ITS ABOUT MARKETING!

Originally Posted by Stolen Dreams
If american cars are all so great, then why aren't there more of them on the roads outside of said country? The only modern american cars I've seen in greater numbers in Europe are naturally Fords, but also a few Chrysler Voyagers.

Buick?
Chevrolet?
Cadillac? (I've seen one modern model.. and it had diplomat's plates)
GMC?
Pontiac?

Is it a marketing thing?
Or can those five brands simply not compete with our European or Asian makers?

^^ i love how u turned this in to an anti-american thing....umm hate to break it to you but cars everywhere screw up

GM is on the verge of bankruptcy, their cars are not especially well-engineered anymore relative to those of their competitors. They can claim what they will, anyone who believes advertisements is a moron anyway, just like your friend who blames GM for his negligence in turning off his lights. If I see something advertised -- especially on the television -- it's an excellent reason not to buy it. So let them advertise. The market will crush them, just as it has been doing for the last 20 yeas. GM can make all the claims it wants, but after 30 years of having to endure substandard products from GM, consumers are finally beginning to learn that just because it's American doesn't mean it's a superior product. GM's bankruptcy is about 20 years too late. Between incompetent labor negotiations (fuelled in large part by the union's belief, stemming from the government bailout of Chrysler, that the jobs of its members would always be secure), poor manufacturing processes, and unpopular models that either lacked history or style, GM has lost more and more market share to its competitors, especially overseas ones. Cadillac has been crushed under the Teutonic boots of superior German models like Mercedes, BMW, and Audi, while the downmarket GM brands have lost market share to Japanese competitors. At some point, GM needs to rethink its marketing, put some of its remaining talent to good use, and solve its labor problems (the company would still have the medium-term problem of having to pay benefits to retired workers, one of the company's largest expenses, if the not largest). Call in the robots.

That said, I plan to buy a Toyota or Honda in the next two years.