NationStates Jolt Archive

Feelin all activisty tonight. Told my family off for eating veal. Made a big huff about it. And discovered this light-hearted NON GRAPHIC video.

http://www.noveal.org/forgetaboutit/index.htm

Don't worry it's not some creepy set off suffering animals, it's actually a really clever simple cartoon.

Feelin all activisty tonight. Told my family off for eating veal. Made a big huff about it. And discovered this light-hearted NON GRAPHIC video.

http://www.noveal.org/forgetaboutit/index.htm

Don't worry it's not some creepy set off suffering animals, it's actually a really clever simple cartoon.
Well. veals don't have to suffer in horrible conditions for years like cattle has...

Both beef and veal meat can be produced ethically. It always (often) isn't.

Yes, everyone knows that, don't they?
More importantly, veal is bland and very expensive.
*shrugs.

Well. veals don't have to suffer in horrible conditions for years like cattle has...

Hey, that's a good point...

Yes, everyone knows that, don't they?
More importantly, veal is bland and very expensive.
*shrugs.

People know it and choose not to acknowledge it.

People still buy it.

Pull that stick outta your ass.
*shrugs*

I mean everybody knows America sucks/rocks but we still feel the need to talk about it for 20 pages so don't spread your "OMG that's like so yesterday" bullshit on my thread :)

People know it and choose not to acknowledge it.

People still buy it.


Both beef and veal meat can be produced ethically. It always (often) isn't.

What people have to learn is to know how the meat they're buying is produced (and where it's from.) Buy from a producer who treats his animals well.

Both beef and veal meat can be produced ethically. It always (often) isn't.

What people have to learn is to know how the meat they're buying is produced (and where it's from.) Buy from a producer who treats his animals well.

Explain to me how veal can be ethical. Even if the cubicals aren't boxes, the feed and the pens just seem horrifying. And yeah thats true, all about that meet your meat before you eat type thing.

Feelin all activisty tonight. Told my family off for eating veal. Made a big huff about it. And discovered this light-hearted NON GRAPHIC video.

http://www.noveal.org/forgetaboutit/index.htm

Don't worry it's not some creepy set off suffering animals, it's actually a really clever simple cartoon.
I’m a vegetarian, but I wouldn’t ever tell anybody off (especially my family) for eating meat.

2,000 posts. w00t!

People know it and choose not to acknowledge it.

People still buy it.

Perhaps they like it enough that, despite knowing how it's made, they still think it's worth eating?

And I like my stick *exactly* where it is, thank you ;)

I’m a vegetarian, but I wouldn’t ever tell anybody off (especially my family) for eating meat.

2,000 posts. w00t!

There's meat, then there's veal.

Perhaps they like it enough that, despite knowing how it's made, they still think it's worth eating?

And I like my stick *exactly* where it is, thank you ;)

Yeah, I find stabbing babies in the head fun, and eating them....but I like it enough to still keep doing it.

*rolls eyes* its called gaydar.com

Im a vegetarian... but they keep me in a box too...

Explain to me how veal can be ethical. Even if the cubicals aren't boxes, the feed and the pens just seem horrifying. And yeah thats true, all about that meet your meat before you eat type thing.
Why it couldn't be? BTW the so called "white veal" is illegal in Finland (and in UK). Around here veals (for meat production) grow just like all the other veals.

Of course one could say that no meat producing is ethical but I don't think that's what you had in mind

Producing beef the Belgian style
http://fig.cox.miami.edu/~cmallery/150/neuro/belgian.blue.jpg

Why it couldn't be? BTW the so called "white veal" is illegal in Finland (and in UK). Around here veals (for meat production) grow just like all the other veals.

No no I was asking you a question, can you explain to me how it is at all ethical. I'm not being sarcastic if thats what you thought.

I’m a vegetarian, but I wouldn’t ever tell anybody off (especially my family) for eating meat.I'm a vegan, and I don't tell people off for eating meat either.
I would bitch them out if they kicked a cat. Same goes for eating a baby cow that suffered horrible conditions to ensure that it'd taste just right.
That's sick. Don't anyone try to defend your "right" to eat veal.

There's meat, then there's veal.
I really don’t see the difference. It’s just an animal an incredibly dumb animal.
Yeah, I know that doesn’t sound very vegetarian, but I’m not one out of some misguided compassion for animals. It’s just the thought of consuming flesh disgusts me.

No no I was asking you a question, can you explain to me how it is at all ethical. I'm not being sarcastic if thats what you thought.
I edited my post. but ok

If producing veals is not ethical then producing beef is not ethical. I just don't think so. I believe that we can produce meat ethically which for me means that we give the animals as good lives as possible.

I really don’t see the difference. It’s just an animal. An incredibly dumb animal.
Yeah, I know that doesn’t sound very vegetarian, but I’m not one out of some misguided compassion for animals. It’s just the thought of consuming flesh disgusts me.

Even idiots have sensory awareness. Cows are dogs.

And no, it doesn't sound vegetarian. I don't understand why you care for the idea of not eating skin if you don't care for the animal...so you'd wear fur?

I'm a vegan, and I don't tell people off for eating meat either.
I would bitch them out if they kicked a cat. Same goes for eating a baby cow that suffered horrible conditions to ensure that it'd taste just right.
That's sick. Don't anyone try to defend your "right" to eat veal.
Again, there's "white veal" and there's veal. Only (well, unfortunately) 1/5 of all the veals produced in EU are this kind of white veals.

Even idiots have sensory awareness. Cows are dogs.

And no, it doesn't sound vegetarian. I don't understand why you care for the idea of not eating skin if you don't care for the animal...so you'd wear fur?

They are?? :eek:

Even idiots have sensory awareness. Cows are dogs.

And no, it doesn't sound vegetarian. I don't understand why you care for the idea of not eating skin if you don't care for the animal...so you'd wear fur?
I am far to cheap to ever purchase fur. I see no ethical or moral problem with it, though.
Eating meat just seems… unnatural to me.

They are?? :eek:

Comparison darling. Com-par-is-on. Thought you'd notice.

Again, there's "white veal" and there's veal. Only (well, unfortunately) 1/5 of all the veals produced in EU are this kind of white veals.The things (http://www.noveal.org/sci_anemia.htm) that are done to young calves to turn them into white veal (giving them anemia, basically) are even more cruel than regular veal production, to be sure. All veal calves are taken away from their mothers way too early, mistreated and denied normal existance. All veal calves are kept in small crates, and they suffer because of it.
http://www.noveal.org/

Comparison darling. Com-par-is-on. Thought you'd notice.

I still dont understand but I havent really slept much

I am far to cheap to ever purchase fur. I see no ethical or moral problem with it, though.
Eating meat just seems… unnatural to me.

No ethical problem with fur? Are you kidding me. Even most meat eaters I know see a problem with fur. I don't understand how you can have a problem with not eating it but just fine wearing it for a fashion statement.

I still dont understand but I havent really slept much

I was implying that a cow should be respected like dogs or zoo animals are. Which is with respect, even if they are just going to die, why do we bother loving one species but not another it's like animal-racism.

No ethical problem with fur? Are you kidding me. Even most meat eaters I know see a problem with fur. I don't understand how you can have a problem with not eating it but just fine wearing it for a fashion statement.I don't think that Undelia has a problem with eating meat at all. It sounds like she just doesn't like it. More like "someone who doesn't eat meat" than a "vegetarian".
I don't like red bell peppers, so I don't eat them. It's not like I object to eating them. :)

Although I love veal, I stopped eating it 15 years ago. Its not exquisite enough to justify the treatment of the animals.
Not that I'm into exquisite foods anyway.

I don't like red bell peppers, so I don't eat them. It's not like I object to eating them. :)


I absolutely love red bell peppers. Do you like green or yellow peppers?

The things (http://www.noveal.org/sci_anemia.htm) that are done to young calves to turn them into white veal (giving them anemia, basically) are even more cruel than regular veal production, to be sure. All veal calves are taken away from their mothers way too early, mistreated and denied normal existance. All veal calves are kept in small crates, and they suffer because of it.
http://www.noveal.org/
Simply not true. Maybe in your country but not around here. As I said there is no white veal production in my country. Yes, many calves are taken away from their mothers too early but again, not all. It's more common with dairy cattle as greedy producers want that rich milk for themselves, rarer with beef cattle. Calves are often kept in large enclosures(?) with other calves.

The noveal.org tells only about the production of white veal or what ever you want to call it (fattened calf?). Maybe that's how it's produced in your country but it's illegal in mine.

I don't think that Undelia has a problem with eating meat at all. It sounds like she just doesn't like it. More like "someone who doesn't eat meat" than a "vegetarian".
I don't like red bell peppers, so I don't eat them. It's not like I object to eating them. :)
She? What the heck?
I used to like the taste of meat when I used to eat it, but it doesn’t matter if you find something tastey if it causes you to lose your appetite completly.

I don't think that Undelia has a problem with eating meat at all. It sounds like she just doesn't like it. More like "someone who doesn't eat meat" than a "vegetarian".
I don't like red bell peppers, so I don't eat them. It's not like I object to eating them. :)
Yeah I was about to say that, it's like I don't like the taste of alcohol so I don't drink, but I don't make a symbol or Martyr of myself.

More like "someone who doesn't eat meat" than a "vegetarian".
Thank you, you have made my day, and its only early (well, about ten or so, but thats early for me) in the morning.

Anyway, veal, I don't eat it because I think it tastes fairly off. However, I'd hardly put cows on the level of dogs, cows are more like lettuce that started walking around for reason's that no one could guess (and to anyone who complains that lettuces can't feel pain, you have obviously never heard your high and holy bagged salads scream in agony as they are ripped limb from limb and slowly fed through a shredder).

Thank you, you have made my day, and its only early (well, about ten or so, but thats early for me) in the morning.

Anyway, veal, I don't eat it because I think it tastes fairly off. However, I'd hardly put cows on the level of dogs, cows are more like lettuce that started walking around for reason's that no one could guess (and to anyone who complains that lettuces can't feel pain, you have obviously never heard your high and holy bagged salads scream in agony as they are ripped limb from limb and slowly fed through a shredder).
*tear comes to eye*
Thoses salad eating bastards!

*tear comes to eye*
Thoses salad eating bastards!
I always have felt bad slicing tomatoes....Oh well, as long as it doesn't have eyes i'm happy. No windows of the soul...no soul.

I always have felt bad slicing tomatoes....Oh well, as long as it doesn't have eyes i'm happy. No windows of the soul...no soul.
You eat clam, then? :D

You eat clam, then? :D

Clam have eyes. They boggle around. They also have felt feet.

I made the mistake of watching a duck video (cruelty of foie gras) at Farm Sanctuary. Terrible. :(

I was implying that a cow should be respected like dogs or zoo animals are. Which is with respect, even if they are just going to die, why do we bother loving one species but not another it's like animal-racism.

Then shouldn't you have said "Cows or dogs" instead of "Cows are dogs"

I absolutely love red bell peppers. Do you like green or yellow peppers?I like green ones, but only raw. I've never had yellow ones. They freak me out.

Feelin all activisty tonight. Told my family off for eating veal. Made a big huff about it. And discovered this light-hearted NON GRAPHIC video.

http://www.noveal.org/forgetaboutit/index.htm

Don't worry it's not some creepy set off suffering animals, it's actually a really clever simple cartoon.

I love Veal... mmmmm Veal.....

I like green ones, but only raw. I've never had yellow ones. They freak me out.


Have you ever had red peppers roasted?

I like them all and the bonus is they are really good for you.

Most people dont know that there is more vitamin C in a green bell pepper than an orange.

*tear comes to eye*
Thoses salad eating bastards!I used to say "fungi have feelings too", but that was because I hated mushrooms. They're yummy now.
yay for salad rights!!!
I'm a vegan, and I don't eat salad.

I always have felt bad slicing tomatoes....Oh well, as long as it doesn't have eyes i'm happy. No windows of the soul...no soul....or tomatoes.

I like veal scallompini it's not my favorite food (steak deburgo is my fav) but I really don't care about a cow call me what you will I didn't work my way up the food chain to eat carrot's and salads all the time

Have you ever had red peppers roasted?

I like them all and the bonus is they are really good for you.Roasted peppers are kinda gross (yes, I am a picky vegan).

Most people dont know that there is more vitamin C in a green bell pepper than an orange.I did. :D

I like veal scallompini it's not my favorite food (steak deburgo is my fav) but I really don't care about a cow call me what you will I didn't work my way up the food chain to eat carrot's and salads all the timeNo one called you anything.
Would you like us to call you names? Kinky.

Roasted peppers are kinda gross (yes, I am a picky vegan).




I didnt know you didnt eat meat. Fish?

You probably know all the vegetables that are good roasted- do you like eggplant or zucchini? We have those several times a week-grilled when its too hot to cook indoors. We also grill/roast sweet potatoes-really good!

Knew that already, still gonna eat it.

I stay away from veal. I have no problem with eating meat, but I'm not going to purposely buy a meal that caused an undue amount of suffering for some "perfect taste". If you're going to raise animals for meat, raise them in fairly comfortable conditions, and kill them quickly. It really isn't that much of a sacrifice. Besides, free-range beef tastes better.

If you can't eat Veal, what exactly do you want the dairy farmer to do with the bull calfs? They aren't going to grow up to be beef cattle, they are dairy cattle, a different type...

There is nothing wrong with Veal. In fact, you've convinced me I should go out and buy some for tonight's supper :D

http://www.vealfarm.com/

And Video here:
http://www.vealfarm.com/veal-farm-tour/index.asp

I like veal scallompini it's not my favorite food (steak deburgo is my fav) but I really don't care about a cow call me what you will I didn't work my way up the food chain to eat carrot's and salads all the time

You didn't work your way up the food chain.

If you can't eat Veal, what exactly do you want the dairy farmer to do with the bull calfs? They aren't going to grow up to be beef cattle, they are dairy cattle, a different type...

There is nothing wrong with Veal. In fact, you've convinced me I should go out and buy some for tonight's supper :D

http://www.vealfarm.com/

And Video here:
http://www.vealfarm.com/veal-farm-tour/index.asp

Wow your a **** aren't you. Why don't you go on a site protesting against discrimination and say you hate black people. Why would you go and be a **** like that, why say that...what a ****.

Wow your a **** aren't you. Why don't you go on a site protesting against discrimination and say you hate black people. Why would you go and be a **** like that, why say that...what a ****.
Last I checked, people were allowed to express their opinion in a forum.

Yes, everyone knows that, don't they?
More importantly, veal is bland and very expensive.
*shrugs.
Dunno what veal you been eating - most veal I've had is very tasty...

Last I checked, people were allowed to express their opinion in a forum.

No you weren't expressing your opinion you were being an asshole. You could've stopped at "I don't mind veal".

You didn't work your way up the food chain.


Wow your a **** aren't you. Why don't you go on a site protesting against discrimination and say you hate black people. Why would you go and be a **** like that, why say that...what a ****.

You already have previous warnings, yet you still continue to flame others? Take a break from NationStates.

Glinde Nessroe: 3-Day Forumban

I respect your right not to eat veal.
But I will eat what I please, thank you very much.

I didnt know you didnt eat meat. Fish?

You probably know all the vegetables that are good roasted- do you like eggplant or zucchini? We have those several times a week-grilled when its too hot to cook indoors. We also grill/roast sweet potatoes-really good!Root vegetables and any vegetables that aren't too juicy are good roasted (but I did have roasted tomatoes a lot in spain, and they were pretty damned awsome). I don't eat any meat (well, no dead animals ;) ) so that includes fish. I'm lactose-intolerant, and eggs are pretty gross, so veganism came naturally, but I'm bad at it cause I don't really care; I had a root beer float today, even though I knew it'd give me a tummy ache (it did :( ). Before I became a vegetarian, I only ate meat. I was a typical young picky eater, and I hated vegetables. Being a vegan is kinda weird sometimes because of that, but now I like a lot of vegetables, so it's all good. Anyone can become a vegetarian.

I respect your right not to eat veal.
But I will eat what I please, thank you very much.Okay.......


Have fun.
Did you have anything to add to the conversation, or was that it?

And yeah thats true, all about that meet your meat before you eat type thing.
:confused:
Could you repeat that, over.

:confused:
Could you repeat that, over.Translation: Become aquainted with the animals that are to be killed for your food.
It's a PETA slogan from an ad campaign that sought to educate people about how farm animals live. You should know what kind of conditions the animals destined for your plate live under.

Translation: Become aquainted with the animals that are to be killed for your food.
It's a PETA slogan from an ad campaign that sought to educate people about how farm animals live. You should know what kind of conditions the animals destined for your plate live under.


Everyone should get acquainted...

http://www.veal.org/Content/

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Veal_from_Farm_to_Table/index.asp

http://www.awionline.org/pubs/Quarterly/03-52-4/524p12.htm

Carlos Reyes, owner & executive chef of Chefs on King, shares three veal recipes that will turn up the heat this summer.
“Veal is the King of meats,” Reyes states with confidence. “It’s incredibly nutritious, has little fat and melts in your mouth like fine chocolate.” He also points out that it is so easy to create a stunning dish with veal.
“Your cooking with the very best when you create with veal. Delft Blue provides exceptional cuts and that can make all the difference between a simple meal and a masterpiece.”
http://www.vealrecipes.com/

Okay.......


Have fun.
Did you have anything to add to the conversation, or was that it?

Is there a reason, particularly, to be rude? I expressed a perfectly polite opinion, that you are welcome not to eat veal, but that I will.

I am not trying to project onto you specifically, Oxwana, but I have had people step in front of me and yell at me, "FUR IS MURDER! DON'T WEAR FUR!" Care to know what I was wearing? Jeans, canvas tennies, a jean jacket and a sweatshirt with a fuzzy kitten on it.

I don't wear fur because I think it's a shame to kill an animal for vanity's sake. However, I had a dinner to go to, and borrowed a synthetic jacket. When I set foot in the restaurant, another stranger felt it appropriate to announce loudly to the room, "Do you know how many animals had to die for that jacket?" to which I answered, "Two. Polly and Esther. Cousins to Wash and Wear."

I am respectful of your personal decisions. I see no need for you or anyone else to get snippy over mine.

It has been my experience that people are rude out of frustration, whether that be over disagreement, previous hostilities, or something personal in their life that they are not dealing with. At least that's been the case when I was rude to someone online.

Don't take it personally Kat. Their behaviour towards you and everyone else reflects almost completely on them.

btw I'm impressed that you haven't yet wielded the Hammer of MOD on this particular poster.

I deeply respect the convictions of those who choose not to eat veal, meat in general, or animal products. I eat veal and really don't care where it came from since I think cows are on a similar mental plane as carrots. For those who wish to eat humanely treated animals I suggest finding a Kosher butcher. It costs a bit more but Kosher animals are treated well and they taste better.

Yes, everyone knows that, don't they?
More importantly, veal is bland and very expensive.
*shrugs.

I agree that veal is a bit bland. It is the texture, however, that is excellent. Cooked correctly (and I don't mean breaded - you Euros!) and flavored with a dry rub, it is fantastic. If you've never had a veal chop blackened.... well, I recommend it highly. Veal is also good with pate. It's also wonderful with crabmeat in a sweet vermouth sauce. God, I'm hungry now.

I don't wear fur because I think it's a shame to kill an animal for vanity's sake. However, I had a dinner to go to, and borrowed a synthetic jacket. When I set foot in the restaurant, another stranger felt it appropriate to announce loudly to the room, "Do you know how many animals had to die for that jacket?" to which I answered, "Two. Polly and Esther. Cousins to Wash and Wear."See, I think that that was a valuable contribution to the discussion. Your original post was a statement of fact that did not really contribute to the discussion, or even answer the original post. That's why I was confused.
I ate in TGI Friday's in Madrid with a Spanish couple just a few months ago (weird, eh?), and when I ordered pasta was the first time that the woman realized that I was a vegan. She got a little uncomfortable, and made a few jokes about it, including, "you must think we are... Barbars?". To which I replied that no, I did not think that, and I explained that I was not the kind of vegetarian who gets mad at non-vegetarians, that no one likes those vegetarians, not even most vegetarians. She seemed enormously relieved, so I felt good for having cleared that up.
Seriously, most vegetarians are like me. It's not because she was a vegetarian that the woman in the restaurant bitched you out for wearing a jacket that she couldn't even be sure was fur; it's cause she was an ass.

I am respectful of your personal decisions. I see no need for you or anyone else to get snippy over mine.It wasn't your decisions that I was "getting snippy" about. It was your post.
I do not think that I was being rude,but I was merely puzzled. I'm sorry if my post came across as my attacking you personally.

I deeply respect the convictions of those who choose not to eat veal, meat in general, or animal products. I eat veal and really don't care where it came from since I think cows are on a similar mental plane as carrots. For those who wish to eat humanely treated animals I suggest finding a Kosher butcher. It costs a bit more but Kosher animals are treated well and they taste better.All animals should be treated well, and that precludes the production of veal.
If you think that a cow and a carrot are on a similar "mental plane", then humans are most definitly on a "similar" plane as well.

Being a vegan is kinda weird sometimes because of that, but now I like a lot of vegetables, so it's all good. Anyone can become a vegetarian.

Can I? I wouldnt have to be "re-circumcized" would I?

The things (http://www.noveal.org/sci_anemia.htm) that are done to young calves to turn them into white veal (giving them anemia, basically) are even more cruel than regular veal production, to be sure. All veal calves are taken away from their mothers way too early, mistreated and denied normal existance. All veal calves are kept in small crates, and they suffer because of it.
http://www.noveal.org/
I have not tried this "veal" before

But I think I am going to give it a shot

I have not tried this "veal" before

But I think I am going to give it a shotHave fun.

Can I? I wouldnt have to be "re-circumcized" would I?Nope. You don't have to do anything big to start. Have a vegetarian dinner tonight and you'll be half way there. The faux meat out on the market makes it soooooo easy. Make pasta and tomato sauce with reconstituted TVP in it. I guarantee you won't believe it's not meat.

Nope. You don't have to do anything big to start. Have a vegetarian dinner tonight and you'll be half way there. The faux meat out on the market makes it soooooo easy. Make pasta and tomato sauce with reconstituted TVP in it. I guarantee you won't believe it's not meat.

thanks-you are talking to a guy that has eaten almost everything.

We often have vegetarian meals. Sometimes pasta and side dishes, sometimes grilled veggies I already mentioned on toasted Italian bread, sometimes fruit and veggie kabobs.

I am not at all interested in the fake meats and meat substitutes. the closest I'll come to that is portobello mushrooms. When I plan not to eat meat, I really dont want a fake.

It'd be like drinking a fake beer-whats the point, really?

But since we've had 3 kids, we often make meatless meals, as well as fish at least once a week sometimes more.
I dont want them to develop into ketone-ridden monsters like me....

Having eaten veal, foie gras and assorted other unethical foods and decided that they are delicious, I believe I am entitled to say meh. Don't like it, don't buy it.

We often have vegetarian meals. Sometimes pasta and side dishes, sometimes grilled veggies I already mentioned on toasted Italian bread, sometimes fruit and veggie kabobs.Awsome. You're already doing your part to save the planet and feed starving people.

I am not at all interested in the fake meats and meat substitutes. the closest I'll come to that is portobello mushrooms. When I plan not to eat meat, I really dont want a fake.TVP is texturized vegetable protein, and it tastes like nothing. If it sounds unappealing, do the pasta sauce thing, and it will look exactly like ground beef is in there, and it will taste exactly the same. :eek: Because half the time, when we cook with meat, the finished product doesn't taste like meat. All that the meat adds is texture (and bad fats, and mega calories, and little bits of dead animal). So I don't consider TVP to be fake meat at all. I could certainly live the rest of my life without ever tasting another soysage. But fake bacon bits are the exception to the rule. Better than the real thing, and low calorie, so eating a handful is actually a healty, low fat, high protein snack. yay.
Seriously, vegetarian food rocks.

But since we've had 3 kids, we often make meatless meals, as well as fish at least once a week sometimes more.
I dont want them to develop into ketone-ridden monsters like me....That's awsome. I really admire that.

Having eaten veal, foie gras and assorted other unethical foods and decided that they are delicious, I believe I am entitled to say meh. Don't like it, don't buy it.It's not that it's not yummy; It's that it's immoral to eat those things. The production of both should be made illegal.

TVP is texturized vegetable protein, and it tastes like nothing. If it sounds unappealing, do the pasta sauce thing, and it will look exactly like ground beef is in there, and it will taste exactly the same. :eek: Because half the time, when we cook with meat, the finished product doesn't taste like meat. All that the meat adds is texture (and bad fats, and mega calories, and little bits of dead animal). So I don't consider TVP to be fake meat at all. I could certainly live the rest of my life without ever tasting another soysage. But fake bacon bits are the exception to the rule. Better than the real thing, and low calorie, so eating a handful is actually a healty, low fat, high protein snack. yay.
Seriously, vegetarian food rocks.

That's awsome. I really admire that.

TVP,Soy...to me is very,very unappealing.
When I cook meat for myself, or order it-I simply warm it slightly, or order it as rare as they'll serve it-You're right-once its cooked, it doesnt taste much like meat anymore.
I love raw flank or skirt steak.

It's not that it's not yummy; It's that it's immoral to eat those things. The production of both should be made illegal.
When it comes to animal and plant products, the most important thing I have to say is, legalize it.

It's not that it's not yummy; It's that it's immoral to eat those things. The production of both should be made illegal.
btw where do you live? It's illegal e.g. in Ireland, UK, Sweden, Finland and will be illegal in every EU country in 2007. As far as I know it's mostly an American way to produce veal though French, Italians and Belgians (at least) use those methods too.

It's not that it's not yummy; It's that it's immoral to eat those things. The production of both should be made illegal.
I was in fact referring to morality. I will not have my morality legislated in areas of my life which do not affect other human beings.

I believe those foods to be tasty and have made a decision to occasionally purchase them. If this fact is not to someone's liking, they are entitled to their opinion, but not entitled to effect any change.

Rather like alcohol, the consumption of which is another activity deemed "immoral" in many parts of the world, and its restriction deemed such in other parts of the world. I will not force my beliefs (somewhat against) on the subject onto others.

I would greatly appreciate it if people were not so keen to limit my lifestyle choices.

I was in fact referring to morality. I will not have my morality legislated in areas of my life which do not affect other human beings.

I believe those foods to be tasty and have made a decision to occasionally purchase them. If this fact is not to someone's liking, they are entitled to their opinion, but not entitled to effect any change.

Rather like alcohol, the consumption of which is another activity deemed "immoral" in many parts of the world, and its restriction deemed such in other parts of the world. I will not force my beliefs (somewhat against) on the subject onto others.

I would greatly appreciate it if people were not so keen to limit my lifestyle choices.
Agreed ... I personaly choose not to partake but unless it effects other humans I have no right to force my rights on them

Seriously, vegetarian food rocks.

Some is really good, and healthy - when eaten sometimes. All things in moderation and all that jazz.

It's not that it's not yummy; It's that it's immoral to eat those things. The production of both should be made illegal.

That is an opinion, not a fact.

Meanwhile, I agree that unnecessary suffering of animals, no matter how much "better" it makes the meat taste, should be illegal. However, simply eating calf meat (which is what some people seem to be referring to when they refer to veal - not to the ultra-controlled, no walking, no standing type of veal that we've all heard about) would be no different than eating any type of beef.

That is an opinion, not a fact.

Meanwhile, I agree that unnecessary suffering of animals, no matter how much "better" it makes the meat taste, should be illegal. However, simply eating calf meat (which is what some people seem to be referring to when they refer to veal - not to the ultra-controlled, no walking, no standing type of veal that we've all heard about) would be no different than eating any type of beef.
Should it be called something else? Calf meat = veal

When it comes to animal and plant products, the most important thing I have to say is, legalize it.It's not the same thing. Not even close. Plants=animals??? Haven't we established that humans are animals?
Think about it before you make such broad generalizations. Consider each case individually. I never said that eating meat should be illegal. I never even said that eating baby cows should be illegal.
The methods used to produce veal are cruel, and the practise should be outlawed.

btw where do you live? It's illegal e.g. in Ireland, UK, Sweden, Finland and will be illegal in every EU country in 2007. As far as I know it's mostly an American way to produce veal though French, Italians and Belgians (at least) use those methods too.Canada.
It should be illegal world-wide.

I was in fact referring to morality. I will not have my morality legislated in areas of my life which do not affect other human beings.So you object to animal abuse and neglect laws. I don't care about your personal morality. This is beyond all that. Some things are just wrong.
Some people think that murder is ok, too. That doesn't make it so.

I believe those foods to be tasty and have made a decision to occasionally purchase them. If this fact is not to someone's liking, they are entitled to their opinion, but not entitled to effect any change.You are not entitled to hurt animals needlessly for your food. I will effect change. Try and stop me. You are, after all, entitled to do so.

Rather like alcohol, the consumption of which is another activity deemed "immoral" in many parts of the world, and its restriction deemed such in other parts of the world. I will not force my beliefs (somewhat against) on the subject onto others.Many people blame alcohol for the immoral things that drunk people do (beat their SOs etc.). But alcohol itself affects only the one drinking it. It's not the same thing as veal production.

I would greatly appreciate it if people were not so keen to limit my lifestyle choices.ok.
I'm gon try anyway.