NationStates Jolt Archive

May have spelled his name wrong, but you all get the picture. Was he a real sorcerer or was he a fake? I think that the best evidence is the medallion that he wore in his grave, depicting the year that his grave would be robbed. What do you think?

Fake

I predict a poll! He's fake (I'm not)

He definitely a fake.

and you spelled his name right.

A complete and total fake...

Just a very luck SOB.

don't you think its odd that people always says he was right after the event happened?

"I predict that in the future lots of people gonna die"

I picked real....muhahahha....muHAHAHAHA...HAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!

I picked real....muhahahha....muHAHAHAHA...HAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!Ditto. Would have preferred to vote for a "Remains to be seen" option though.

Just a very luck SOB.
He wasn’t even lucky. So many of his predictions that came to pass were just mistranslations by college students who were either stupid or thought it would be funny.

He wasn’t even lucky. So many of his predictions that came to pass were just mistranslations by college students who were either stupid or thought it would be funny.Yes, not like there's any people who actually earn their money with trying to translate things as accurately as possible... :rolleyes:

Where is the "He was neither real nor lucky, just really fricking vague so his predictions could be interpretted in any number of ways to make it look like they came true" option?

I don't know for sure, but I'm highly skeptical of his predictions. Not one of them was interpreted before the event they supposedly relate to occured; you could take any cryptic statement and make it "predict" an event. If Nostradamus was a true prophet, where were the Nostradamus interpreters warning about Hitler, or 9/11 or Chernobyl?

Yes, not like there's any people who actually earn their money with trying to translate things as accurately as possible... :rolleyes:
People have interpreted it properly, but those pranksters somehow disseminate their bilge faster.
If Nostradamus was a true prophet, where were the Nostradamus interpreters warning about Hitler, or 9/11 or Chernobyl?
Contrary to popular belief, he didn’t predict Hitler. He was actually referring to a river. Hissler I think it’s called, but I’m not sure.

"Nostradamus did for bullshit what stonehenge did for rocks".


It is easy to take predictions as vague as his and curl them to fit what actually happened. Plus, today there are so many fake predictions falsely credited to him (many about 9/11) that it is very unlikly that he forsaw many things people claim he did.

I think that the best evidence is the medallion that he wore in his grave, depicting the year that his grave would be robbed. What do you think?

To you have reliable proof for this, since the story sounds apocryphal.


Yeah, I think his stuff is so vague anything can be derived from the quantrains. And his followers use all sorts of dodgy tricks to make it sound like he is the real deal.

I don't know for sure, but I'm highly skeptical of his predictions. Not one of them was interpreted before the event they supposedly relate to occured; you could take any cryptic statement and make it "predict" an event. If Nostradamus was a true prophet, where were the Nostradamus interpreters warning about Hitler, or 9/11 or Chernobyl?
No matter what it was, none of those happened in 1999, which is the year nostradamus thought something would happen in. So he is fake, and it was pure luck that his prediction about the French Revolution was true.

I don't know for sure, but I'm highly skeptical of his predictions. Not one of them was interpreted before the event they supposedly relate to occured; you could take any cryptic statement and make it "predict" an event. If Nostradamus was a true prophet, where were the Nostradamus interpreters warning about Hitler, or 9/11 or Chernobyl?Hitler actually gets mentioned as "Hister", but who would believe a French guy that's been dead for several hundred years. I'm sure you wouldn't. Don't blame Nostradamus for not being taken seriously.
As for believing him, the Nazis actually did. One of the few unknown minorities that got rounded up and sent to concentration camps were Nostradamus experts. The Nazis actually had translations collected and changed, because some parts spoke of the end of Nazism. Hitler was freaked out by the idea of being dragged around in a cage for the entertainment of the Russians due to some quatrains, which is probably why he committed suicide.
Nostradamus gets compared to Cassandra, the Trojan princess who was gifted with prophecy and cursed with no one believing her, because his quatrains usually get scoffed at until something happens.
But a lot of people actually think you can "prevent" certain quatrains from happening by knowing what they will do, like Hitler supposedly prevented his humiliation at the hands of the Russians.

No matter what it was, none of those happened in 1999, which is the year nostradamus thought something would happen in. So he is fake, and it was pure luck that his prediction about the French Revolution was true.
Heck, James Monroe told anybody that would listen about what he thought would happen with the French Revolution. He was right, and nobody calls him a prophet or sorcerer or whatever.

Contrary to popular belief, he didn’t predict Hitler. He was actually referring to a river. Hissler I think it’s called, but I’m not sure.The reference is to a "Hister", and it seems like this would be a human being. One of them describes Rome being vexed by "Hister", which people assume means either that catholics and other christians were persecuted or that the pope was put in such a dilemma by the Nazis.

But a lot of people actually think you can "prevent" certain quatrains from happening by knowing what they will do, like Hitler supposedly prevented his humiliation at the hands of the Russians.
They still burned his corpse and told everyone that he only had one testicle. :D

They still burned his corpse and told everyone that he only had one testicle. :DActually, I've found a quatrain on his suicide. Everyone, keep your skepticism, because the book I have is in German, and there's nothing like screwing up the message by translating it again:
II/55:
In the conflict the great one, that was worth little,
will commit one astounding deed at his end:
While Hadrie (one of the assumed names of Hitler) sees what must be done
The arrogant <pognale>s at the feast.

Pognale means "fist", but people that study Nostradamus assume he had to change words (and how would he know "tirer", the modern word for "shoot"?) in order to prevent being accused of heresy; he had to hide the original meanings of things he said.

lol, I bet if I looked hard enough I could find a quatrain about my ex dumping me :p

Hitler actually gets mentioned as "Hister",

Isn't "Hister" the old name for the lower Danube?

And if he knew Hitler's name, why not just write Hitler?

Isn't "Hister" the old name for the lower Danube?

And if he knew Hitler's name, why not just write Hitler?The arguement by the author of the book I read is that Nostradamus had to make his quatrains confusing enough so he wouldn't be burned for heresy, them being taken more for the ramblings of a madman than prophecies.

The arguement by the author of the book I read is that Nostradamus had to make his quatrains confusing enough so he wouldn't be burned for heresy, them being taken more for the ramblings of a madman than prophecies.
What about naming Hitler right out would have been heresy?

The arguement by the author of the book I read is that Nostradamus had to make his quatrains confusing enough so he wouldn't be burned for heresy, them being taken more for the ramblings of a madman than prophecies.

OK, that's all well and good, but:

Beasts mad with hunger will swim across rivers,
Most of the army will be against the [Hister]
The great one shall be dragged in an iron cage
When the child brother will observe nothing.

How would putting "Hitler" into that quantrain make it heretical? Unless the church at that time could read the future, they would have no idea what Hitler was or refered to.

Anyway, even if Nostradamus was right and just covering his arse. The quantrain still doesn't make sense.

OK, that's all well and good, but:

Beasts mad with hunger will swim across rivers,
Most of the army will be against the [Hister]
The great one shall be dragged in an iron cage
When the child brother will observe nothing.

How would putting "Hitler" into that quantrain make it heretical? Unless the church at that time could read the future, they would have no idea what Hitler was or refered to.I'm not an expert and even experts are puzzled. Maybe he wasn't used to the alphabet the Nazis used. I have no clue, but that was a quatrain I was looking for.

Anyway, even if Nostradamus was right and just covering his arse. The quantrain still doesn't make sense.The thing that is assumed about Nostradamus is that his prophecies are binding only if you don't know they will happen. By reading them and understanding them, one can prevent them from happening.
Here would be my interpretation:
The "beasts" are the allies and the soviets coming for revenge. The "rivers" would be the Rhine and eventually the Oder, or some other rivers that stood between the Nazis and their enemies. Both sides were rather pissed off and had all reason to be "hungry" for revenge
The Army could either mean the Wehrmacht, which led a failed attempt to assassinate him, and it's resistance to him or how the Wehrmacht Generals told Hitler lies of an Army in Austria coming to Berlin's aid to keep him from ripping off their heads when in his bunker in Berlin, or of course the Allies and Soviets.
The cage bit would be something that Hitler managed to prevent. The Nazis took Nostradamus seriously. Quatrain V/94 mentions an "Armenian" that will let "Cologne and Vienna burn". Armenia is quite close to present day Georgia, which is where Stalin was from. Needless to say, Armenia was probably the best geographical explanation Nostradamus could have given at the time. The Nazis corrected any translations to read "Arminian" to come from Arminius, the germanic tribesman that led a devastating attack against Varus in the Teutoburg forest.
I don't know who might be meant by child brother. It could be Austria, where Hitler expected aid to come from.

I'm not an expert and even experts are puzzled. Maybe he wasn't used to the alphabet the Nazis used.

They used the same alphabet, no?

Though surely Occam's razor applies here.

The thing that is assumed about Nostradamus is that his prophecies are binding only if you don't know they will happen. By reading them and understanding them, one can prevent them from happening.

Sounds like an invitation to open season with retroactive shoehorning to me.


The "beasts" are the allies and the soviets coming for revenge. The "rivers" would be the Rhine and eventually the Oder, or some other rivers that stood between the Nazis and their enemies. Both sides were rather pissed off and had all reason to be "hungry" for revenge
The Army could either mean the Wehrmacht, which led a failed attempt to assassinate him, and it's resistance to him or how the Wehrmacht Generals told Hitler lies of an Army in Austria coming to Berlin's aid to keep him from ripping off their heads when in his bunker in Berlin, or of course the Allies and Soviets.

Sounds a bit general, I mean lots of wars could be considered. Nothing seems to make this refer to uniquely to WWII aside from the Hister part, which I don't buy into.

The Nazis corrected any translations to read "Arminian" to come from Arminius, the germanic tribesman that led a devastating attack against Varus in the Teutoburg forest.


He predicted things that happened before he was born :confused:

Anyway, this growing confusion seem to me that I should go to bed now. Have an early day tommorow.

didn't he predict the world would end in 1999

They used the same alphabet, no?Not really. The Nazis loved to use a special font called "Fraktur". I find it hard to read nowadays.


Sounds like an invitation to open season with retroactive shoehorning to me.
Yeah, I know, Nostradamus stands on even shakier ground than any religious texts.

Sounds a bit general, I mean lots of wars could be considered. Nothing seems to make this refer to uniquely to WWII aside from the Hister part, which I don't buy into.True enough. They aren't in any "chronological" order either, so you can't even guess what gets meant by context.

He predicted things that happened before he was born :confused:
As my post said, the Nazis changed the translations to read "Arminian" so they could be interpreted as Hitler being a German (which he considered himself to be) instead of it reading "Armenian" which would have meant someone from the Caucasus area, perhaps Stalin. That quatrain deals with "Great Germany" annexing various parts of Europe with a "Peace" only being a hoax (Hitler-Stalin Pact?) and a great Armenian leader burning Vienna and Cologne. It is understandable that Hitler would be preferred to be considered the one to burn Vienna and Cologne, because he'd be able to convince the Germans he'd have good reasons. Stalin would have been a different story.

I haven't studied him closely to make a decision. I think it could be true as I have seen the future with absolute accuracy (events occured EXACTLY as I saw them) as well as partial accuracy (events occured in a VERY similar way as to how I saw them). The accuracy seems to depend on how far in the future the event will take place; the further in the future the event, the more chance that things wont be as clear. Seeing the future can be a reality.

oh wasn't there a prediction about the village idiot coming to power in the year 2000 or something?

oh wasn't there a prediction about the village idiot coming to power in the year 2000 or something?Did you have to take drugs and sit on your roof to do it? If no, they aren't proper Nostradamus-style predictions. :D

predict the world would end in 1999

"cough cough"

I can make predictions like him. Watch:

The World will no longer exist one day.

Did you have to take drugs and sit on your roof to do it? If no, they aren't proper Nostradamus-style predictions. :D

I didn't predict anything. I just got visions and no drugs were involved. I did tell one person about one of my visions before it came true though. Is that what makes a vision a prediction?

Where is the "He was neither real nor lucky, just really fricking vague so his predictions could be interpretted in any number of ways to make it look like they came true" option?

Yup

I didn't predict anything. I just got visions and no drugs were involved. I did tell one person about one of my visions before it came true though. Is that what makes a vision a prediction?Nope. Nostradamus watched the stars sniffing some chemicals. I think you need to be high to be a prophet or an oracle... :p (I have no clue actually. Prophets tend to be big PR people and spread the message to a lot of listeners)

"cough cough"I don't know. He did date something, but I don't remember what date it was. And note that I said his quatrains aren't in "chronological" order. They're all jumbled.

So vague as to be meaningless, like horoscopes. Such is the nature of "prediction."

So vague as to be meaningless, like horoscopes. Such is the nature of "prediction."Same concept, but horoscopes take it to a commercial degree where it isn't really acceptable

Just as real as Santa Claus.

or star trek.


"A confluence of ampersands arises.
In the pink sky a pentitent duck clasps jews.
Tossed on a pile of dead brethern,
the sheeet cries out."

There, I made a prophecy. Its now up to you to figure out what it is about. You can read ANYTHING you want into it, Its especially effective if applied retrospectively to events and spliced with meaningless lrefferences to other literature. The bible helps too.

Just as real as Santa Claus.

or star trek.


"A confluence of ampersands arises.
In the pink sky a pentitent duck clasps jews.
Tossed on a pile of dead brethern,
the sheeet cries out."

There, I made a prophecy. Its now up to you to figure out what it is about. You can read ANYTHING you want into it, Its especially effective if applied retrospectively to events and spliced with meaningless lrefferences to other literature. The bible helps too.
http://67.18.37.14/108/141/emo/santa2.gif

I don't know for sure, but I'm highly skeptical of his predictions. Not one of them was interpreted before the event they supposedly relate to occured; you could take any cryptic statement and make it "predict" an event. If Nostradamus was a true prophet, where were the Nostradamus interpreters warning about Hitler, or 9/11 or Chernobyl?
As many have said before about Hister being Hitler. And for 9/11:

At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn,
Fire approaches the great new city,
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Norman
(Century VI, Quatrain 97)

45 degrees latitude is where New York City lies. He calls it the New City. It has to be New York.
didn't he predict the world would end in 1999
He said that his visions had stopped in the year 3078 I believe.

Isn't "Hister" the old name for the lower Danube?

And if he knew Hitler's name, why not just write Hitler?
But I think that Hitler was born near that river.

And for 9/11:

At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn,
Fire approaches the great new city,
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Norman
(Century VI, Quatrain 97)

45 degrees latitude is where New York City lies. He calls it the New City. It has to be New York.
then what the hell does that last sentence mean? :rolleyes:

Definately fake. I could see his implants from a mile away.

then what the hell does that last sentence mean? :rolleyes:
Yeah, you're right. If even one thing doesn't make sense, it's all worthless...

Yeah, you're right. If even one thing doesn't make sense, it's all worthless...
blablabla
invisible pink unicorns will eat magical diamonds from the emerald sky
a powerfull man will die
then the three-eyed dragon will steal the myopic sword


look, it's a prediction of the assassination of JFK!!!!! even if only one part (kinda) makes sense (and is totally not generic)

Fake, its easy for us now to look back on events and link them to his vague predictions.. according to him the world was supposed to end about 9 or 10 years ago. I was in primary school-we were all crying and saying good bye to one another.....I'm still here! just about :D

being that if he did make predictions that are accurate why would he predict September 11? compared to his day it was nothing spectacular, "only" 3800?? dead? To someone pre 1945 that was just one battle, maybe even a little bit of one battle.

don't you think its odd that people always says he was right after the event happened?
It's not odd. His quatrains don't give exact descriptions of events, dates, and places. This lets the beleivers and those who like to trick them out of their money to interpret the quatrains any way they wish. Sometimes they even combine two separate quatrains in order to fit a recent event, like the supposed prediction of 9/11 that made the rounds over the internet.

Faker than a car salesman's smile.

As many have said before about Hister being Hitler. And for 9/11:

At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn,
Fire approaches the great new city,
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Norman
(Century VI, Quatrain 97)

45 degrees latitude is where New York City lies. He calls it the New City. It has to be New York.

Isn't New York 41 degrees north?

(anyone know the link to a good geography site?)*

*EDIT, well I hope this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City%2C_New_York)will do. Wiki gives the latitude as 40°47' N.

But I think that Hitler was born near that river.

So? Given the vagueness, it was fairly likely someone prominent would be born near that river.

(nervous look) um...maybe...it was 45 degrees that day? (sotto) Yes, that'll do...

There's also a theory that he was talking in code, strictly about the politics of his day. Freedom of Speech not being what it is now. I think it was on some History Channel show about him.

As many have said before about Hister being Hitler. And for 9/11:

At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn,
Fire approaches the great new city,
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Norman
(Century VI, Quatrain 97)

45 degrees latitude is where New York City lies. He calls it the New City. It has to be New York.

He said that his visions had stopped in the year 3078 I believe.


But I think that Hitler was born near that river.

why in the world would it matter where hitler was born? the line is roughly translated (as most of these things are) as "the majority of the battle will be against hister." all that really means is that the battle will be fought around the danube river. nostradamus used hallucinogenic substances and astrological charts to make his predictions. he'd ingest a hallucinogen and gaze into a tub of water, where he would see his "visions". people wrongly attribute his vague and sometimes poorly translated musings to real events.

here's a decent article from howstuffworks.com: http://science.howstuffworks.com/nostradamus.htm

OK, here's exactly how it appeared in my head. If it gets a little confusing or crazy, just keep reading:

If Nostradamus had put "Hitler" in his Quatrains, one of two things could have happened.
1) All of the Hitlers would have been killed and stuff. Then, there would be no Hitlers left, so no Hitler would try to take over the world. Then there'd be a mob of angry people who spent time killing the Hitlers ransacking Nostradamus' grave, and they'd be burning him.
2) History would have followed, and Hitler would have gone on with all of his taking over the world. Then, there'd be a mob of angry religious people ransacking Nostradamus' grave, and they'd be burning him.

That 'Hister' was the only safe option here...

OK, here's exactly how it appeared in my head. If it gets a little confusing or crazy, just keep reading:

If Nostradamus had put "Hitler" in his Quatrains, one of two things could have happened.
1) All of the Hitlers would have been killed and stuff. Then, there would be no Hitlers left, so no Hitler would try to take over the world. Then there'd be a mob of angry people who spent time killing the Hitlers ransacking Nostradamus' grave, and they'd be burning him.
2) History would have followed, and Hitler would have gone on with all of his taking over the world. Then, there'd be a mob of angry religious people ransacking Nostradamus' grave, and they'd be burning him.

That 'Hister' was the only safe option here...

so why did he go with hister, which would easily be confused with the major river of the same name, in a line that could easily reference a region or site? have people been killing all of the Histers? what kind of predictions have been gleaned that we can use today? instead of attributing them to past events, why haven't his predictions led to proper actions? can it be that people just want to believe that someone has foreseen our troubles?

OK, someone get one of his prophecies and we'll translate it.

As many have said before about Hister being Hitler. And for 9/11:

At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn,
Fire approaches the great new city,
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Norman
(Century VI, Quatrain 97)

45 degrees latitude is where New York City lies. He calls it the New City. It has to be New York.


something i found regarding the above quatrain:

"Skeptics suggest that believers are paying attention only to the pieces that fit, and ignoring the parts that do not ("the great king of the Mongols," for example). Additionally, they argue that "the great new city" is a skewed translation of Nostradamus' lines. In the original French, Nostradamus referred to "Villeneuve," which literally means "new city," but is also the name of a town outside of Paris, near 45 degrees latitude."

Thought this link might be useful for all the Nostradamus believers out there.
http://www.getodd.com/stuf/nostradamus.html

As reliable as The Book of Revelations. :rolleyes:

things would be much more simple if we can predict the future. only noone can, and everyone who tell he does is nothing but a liar.

His predictations can be anything they're so damn vauge. FAKE. :sniper: :gundge:

I say that in a certain amount of years, something will happen, killings many, many people.

And it will not be the rise of the Galactic Empire, like the Episode III.

There's also a theory that he was talking in code, strictly about the politics of his day. Freedom of Speech not being what it is now. I think it was on some History Channel show about him.
and then there's the theory that his quatrains are a code that lead to the location of a burried treasure of the Templars ...

and then there's the theory that his quatrains are a code that lead to the location of a burried treasure of the Templars ...

For god sake. No one tell Dan Brown!

:p

For god sake. No one tell Dan Brown!

:p
why not? for once, he might write a book about a plausible conspiracy theory ;) it might even be the first good book he writes :D

why not? for once, he might write a book about a plausible conspiracy theory ;) it might even be the first good book he writes :D

Ha ha ha

:D