NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's a survey that comes as a direct result from this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=438053) in Moderation. The question is as follows:

What do you think of when you see the hammer and sickle (see below)?

http://www.wellredusa.com/images/hammer_sickle_r_y.jpg


If you chose 'other', please elaborate here in this thread. Thank you.


EDIT: Fixed link

is there supposed to be a poll attached??

as to what i see... the first thought is of a very old game called SU-25 (two floppy disks)... next is russia, communism, cold war, USA (as in enemy during previous point).

The other thought is only present due to reading the thread. (the purges etc...)

Poll just came up. Feel free to vote.

Reminds me of the idiots that ruled what is now the CIS. Had a lot of shifts in leadership and policy.

Oh, for Pete's sake. The ban on swastikas in flags has been around since forever. You people seriously need to get over it. Life ain't fair, and the hammer and sickle just aren't as offensive as the swastika.

Oh, for Pete's sake. The ban on swastikas in flags has been around since forever. You people seriously need to get over it. Life ain't fair, and the hammer and sickle just aren't as offensive as the swastika.Come on Fass. This thread isn't about Swastikas (yet) ;)

if you think Gulag/KGB, wouldn't most people think the Soviet Union as they are the result of it, and therefore associate communism/socialism? Or am I wrong in this one?

Come on Fass. This thread isn't about Swastikas (yet) ;)

We all know what this is about - it's about trying to bitch one's way to an admin/mod ruling because they aren't agreeing with you.

Come on Fass. This thread isn't about Swastikas (yet) ;)

That's exactly what it's about. Whenever the swastika debate makes its periodic return to the forefront of Moderation debate, there is a chorus of people chanting, "The hammer and sickle are just as offensive! They should be banned too!" either because they attempting to undo the ban on swastikas for their own purposes or because they despise communism so.

[violet] seemingly implied in the Moderation debate that the reason swastikas are banned and hammer and sickles are not is because people think of the Holocaust when they see a swastika, but people do not think of Soviet atrocities when they see the hammer and sickle.

So now a group of people wish to show that the majority of people do think of Soviet atrocities first when they see the USSR flag, in an attempt to do god-knows-what. There seems to be an inability to accept the fact that Max Barry has decided what to ban and what not to ban, and it is entirely his decision to unilaterally make.

Heh, http://this thread/ isn't a valid url :)

We all know what this is about - it's about trying to bitch one's way to a mod ruling because they aren't agreeing with you.I happen to agree with the mods and I can't wait to take a crack at anyone that bitches about not being allowed to display anything "verfassungswidrig". I'm not going to abuse the moderation forum for that, though.

except that with ~14:2 they wont win :-)

edit: i miscounted :-(

That's exactly what it's about. Whenever the swastika debate makes its periodic return to the forefront of Moderation debate, there is a chorus of people chanting, "The hammer and sickle are just as offensive! They should be banned too!" either because they attempting to undo the ban on swastikas for their own purposes or because they despise communism so.
Hence the "yet".
I can't wait to debate with people on that again. I didn't sleep much last night and I need something to distract me :D

I started this thread because I wanted to know what NSers think when they see a hammer and sickle. Do they think about communism, death camps, or something completely different. I got the idea from [violet]s thread in moderation, yes. But this is here because of pure curiosity. Not because I want the hammer and sickle banned. Now, I'm asking you, *points finger at reader* NSer to NSer. What do you think of the hammer and sickle?

I happen to agree with the mods and I can't wait to take a crack at anyone that bitches about not being allowed to display anything "verfassungswidrig". I'm not going to abuse the moderation forum for that, though.

I hope you understand that I was using "you" as an indefinite pronoun and not as a personal one.

Heh, http://this thread/ isn't a valid url :)
Fixed

Anyway, I personally think of the USSR, and the USSR alone. The red-yellow combination does remind one of communism as a whole, but the hammer and sickle are decidedly Soviet, not generic communist.

Now, I'm asking you, *points finger at reader* NSer to NSer. What do you think of the hammer and sickle?Sorry, when you said that, this came to mind:
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1690/genossekche6mm.jpg

I hope you understand that I was using "you" as an indefinite pronoun and not as a personal one.I know. I was just stating that I was someone that agreed with them. I didn't mean for it to come across like I thought that you thought that I thought that the decision was wrong (too much thinking for one post... :p )

Communism/socialism

I know. I was just stating that I was someone that agreed with them. I didn't mean for it to come across like I thought that you thought that I thought that the decision was wrong (too much thinking for one post... :p )

English sure could use a pronoun like the Germanic "man/mann," but that doesn't come across as stilted as "one".

English sure could use a pronoun like the Germanic "man/mann," but that doesn't come across as stilted as "one".Yup. I mean even the French have something they can use.

I just think of Russia :confused:

Darn Soviets... Love the image Laerod

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/curnel_sanders/scott003.jpg

Beware the COMMUNIST NINJAS of DOOM!

Beware the COMMUNIST NINJAS of DOOM!Ey, gimme back my hat! :mad: ( :p )

not exactly the KGB but of the Purges themselves the elimination of the smart and talented for the sake of equality and Stalins mental well being

Funny that this came up. I have the Soviet Union's flag as my national flag. My choice to use it as my flag has nothing to do with symbolism or communism. I chose that flag because I think it is one of the best flag designs out there.

USSR and nothing else.

reminds me off my more rebellious past (oh and I do think it looks cool even if my grandma got deported for being a Jehovah witness)

Makes me think of an ironsmith in a village in southern Italy on a late July late afternoon, almost dusk, hammering the sickle of a local peasant to make it sharper for the harvest.

I think about...

1. Badass Russian Weapons

2. Badass Russian Tanks

3. Badass Russian Planse

4. Badass Russian Soldiers

5. Badass Russian Nukes

6. You get the picture.

I think about my maxed-out Visa and sigh.

I think, "Losers. Communism died a slow and ugly death, except in Cuba and North Korea, where it is still dying a slow and ugly death. Move on already!"

I think even less complimentary thoughts when I see a swastika.

:p

Liberation. Equality. Freedom. A few words that come to mind

I see strength in the working people.

I think along the lines of "Die commies die" but that usually turns into "Why does it conjure up thoughts which are fairly neautral compared to the swastika, which has been banned at my school, and yet when my friend sticks a hammer and sickle with 'Trotsky is my homeboy' on my back for a joke it's allowed" which turns into "It's a stupid symbol anyway, a hammer and sickle...what are they gonna do? Work in the fields? Scary" and then "Well if they want to be strange that's their problem and I'll go be strange in a different way".

...snip...
"It's a stupid symbol anyway, a hammer and sickle...what are they gonna do? Work in the fields? Scary" ...snip...

So THAT'S what the peasants in movies are thinking when they approach the vampire's castle weilding sickles and assorted field impliments; not "Together we will cut that monster into itty bitty pieces with our very sharp tools", like I always thought, but "We will appease the Count by working really, really hard, and then maybe he'll eat the bread we make, instead of draining our sheep of blood and turning our daughters into undead ghouls! Woo!"

It all makes so much sense now. I have been enlightened!

Also, when I see the hammer and sickle, I usually think "Oooh, a hammer and sickle". But that's just because I am unimaginative, I guess.

Speaking of Hammer's an Sickles, I just remembered this (http://www.fotos.org/galeria/showphoto.php/photo/167/size/big/sort/1/cat/518/page/7)...

When I see the hammer and sicle I think of their symbolism: Industry (Hammer) and Agraculture (Sicle)

Here's a survey that comes as a direct result from this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=438053) in Moderation. The question is as follows:

What do you think of when you see the hammer and sickle (see below)?

http://www.wellredusa.com/images/hammer_sickle_r_y.jpg
Well, the hammer & sickle makes me think of commie hats (http://www.russianoptics.com/gray_hat.gif).

i think of a number of things. one being what they symbolize, industry and agriculture. i also think of the failed attempt of implementing communist economics in the soviet union. after that it just sort of drivels on into corruption, the cold war and a myriad of other subjects.

Difference being between Swastika and Hammer/Sickle is though even if it's a failure, the H/S promotes worker unity and equality among all peoples. Unless you were born in the Cold War where everything red is "omg bad"

I think, "Hmmm... vodka. Goooood."

I see the sickle and hammer as more of a symbol of workers' unity worldwide than just that of the USSR.

Socialism and freedom.

Socialism and freedom.*cough*
I choked on that one.

about the same things I think of when I see a swastika

Number of people killed by Communism > Number of People killed by Nazism

If you've had family or friends who lived under what that goddamned hammer and sickle stood for, you'd understand how horrible it was. Most probably don't.

I voted "other". I just think of a hammer lying on top of a sickle, and wonder how they came to be in such a silly position.

Toolshed?

If you've had family or friends who lived under what that goddamned hammer and sickle stood for, you'd understand how horrible it was. Most probably don't.

My family name no longer exists in Russia because of what Lenin and Stalin did to the Cossacks. My family name still exists in the U.S. because of what Gorbachev did to the USSR. And when you say "stood for," do you mean the ideals, or the society itself? Because they are VERY different things. When someone says communism, I think of the Paris Commune, and Gorbachev's perestroika, not Stalin's totalitarianist regime, or Lenin's "you have the right to say anything you want, and I have the right to kill you for it".

For some reason, all I think of is a thosand men in fur coats, drinking vodka, and singing a song about the motherland...

I think of all the Americans who died at the hands of Vietnamese and Koreans and Chinese and Cubans and Russians who rallied under it. I think of the way that communism takes people back fifty years as opposed to the free world. I think of the millions who have died under communist rule.

1)Communism (the topic)
2)Soviet Union
3)Dictatorship
4)The first nice thought about my government that I have thought this year: It's a good thing I don't live in a place with so much random brutality as a socialist state.

Stalinism, generally. In all it's aspects.

All three. It makes me think of Communism and pretty much everything associated with it, although one image that is always quick to surface in my mind is thousands of trench-coated Red soldiers with their AKMs advancing with tanks...

Other: Ethnic Cleansing.

Between my fathers side of the family and my mothers side of the family, the Soviets have etchnicly cleansed 3 generations, on seperate occasions, from 3 different locations.

After Ethnic Cleansing, the Hammer & Sickle makes me think of the Gulags & KGB.

The 3 rd thing that comes to mind when I see it is the Soviet space program, which was well and truly awesome.

The first nice thought about my government that I have thought this year: It's a good thing I don't live in a place with so much random brutality as a socialist state.Good thing you don't live in Sweden... :p

I think Soviet Union, KGB and Gulags. I don't think of socialism or communism. These images represent socialism and communism better

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Redflag.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/Blkred_flag.png/200px-Blkred_flag.png

Other: Ethnic Cleansing.

Between my fathers side of the family and my mothers side of the family, the Soviets have etchnicly cleansed 3 generations, on seperate occasions, from 3 different locations.

After Ethnic Cleansing, the Hammer & Sickle makes me think of the Gulags & KGB.

The 3 rd thing that comes to mind when I see it is the Soviet space program, which was well and truly awesome.


Laika the dog doesn't think the USSR's space program was all that great ;) .

I think of the communist ideology in general, and not any specific actions resulting from its application by various countries over the years.

And I did live in the USSR in my early childhood...I can't say many of my family members suffered under tyranny and repression.

Laika the dog doesn't think the USSR's space program was all that great ;) .Laika doesn't "think" anymore, if you put it that way... :p

Good thing you don't live in Sweden... :p
Huh? Sweden is not a socialist state. The government is trying it's very best to cripple the economy, are big thieves, and despite that have great support from most citizens. But since most of the production is done by people working voluntarily, it is not fully socialist. And Sweden is a lot better place to live than the Soviet was.

Huh? Sweden is not a socialist state. The government is trying it's very best to cripple the economy, are big thieves, and despite that have great support from most citizens. But since most of the production is done by people working voluntarily, it is not fully socialist.Sweden is what would be referred to as a "Sozialstaat" (a social state) in Germany. It's actually more socialist than the Soviet Union because of social programs and not because they repress the citizenry.

What do you think of when you see the hammer and sickle?
The symbol has always meant "workers" to me. Glorifying the manual labourer.

I think of socialism, one of the most beautiful things on paper but one of the most impractical.

I chose other. It makes me think of fear. Communism gets established very easily, and it will go just as quickly. But there are two ways it does. It either morphs into a dictatorship, where it stays for a long time and dies peacefully. Or it can be brief, and when it dies, as it did in Cambodia and Angola, a titanic battle ensues.

Huh? Sweden is not a socialist state. The government is trying it's very best to cripple the economy
:rolleyes:

if you think Gulag/KGB, wouldn't most people think the Soviet Union as they are the result of it, and therefore associate communism/socialism? Or am I wrong in this one?
The Poll's structure doesn't allow for a "both" option, of the two non-"Other" options, the second one was, to me, more descriptive of the results from the first option.

Then again, I'm a cold-war child.

:rolleyes: agreed. Krakatao's statement is more or less a description of what Sweden's government is doing, rather than the banner under which they're doing it. describing the method, rather than the Ideals that put the power to use that method into place.

I put 'other' by which I mean 'all of the above'. I think socialism/ communism but I also think of the eventual progroms and oppression that it always results in. Oddly enough I don't think specifically of the USSR so much as Korea and the PRC.

agreed. Krakatao's statement is more or less a description of what Sweden's government is doing, rather than the banner under which they're doing it. describing the method, rather than the Ideals that put the power to use that method into place.
I call bullcrap. Sweden's economy is very strong (especially considering the fact that they don't focus purely on growth), growing at near 2.2%, 2.4% Quarter over Quarter, and is still well above the EU as a whole in near every respect.

I chose other. It makes me think of fear. Communism gets established very easily, and it will go just as quickly. But there are two ways it does. It either morphs into a dictatorship, where it stays for a long time and dies peacefully. Or it can be brief, and when it dies, as it did in Cambodia and Angola, a titanic battle ensues.Angolan communism is represented by a machete and a sprocket, though...

I think of commies.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Redflag.jpg
Thats for pure spineless "Utopian" or "democratic" socialists


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/Blkred_flag.png/200px-Blkred_flag.png
Thats for anarcho-syndicalist rich boys who dont understand communism

In general, whenever I see the hammer and sickle, I think of the Sovjet Union, not just Stalin.
When I see a swastika, the association is clearly with Germany under Hitler.

Saying that the hammer and sickle symbol stands for the Gulag is almost like saying the US flag stands for slavery... it's only looking at part of the picture and part of the history.

Laika doesn't "think" anymore, if you put it that way... :p

Well, she WAS thinking.....

OH JOY! I'M BACK! COMRADE! FETCH ME A BOWL OF KIBBLE! HAIL STALIN! OH CRAP! Bllaaaah!

In general, whenever I see the hammer and sickle, I think of the Sovjet Union, not just Stalin.
When I see a swastika, the association is clearly with Germany under Hitler.

Saying that the hammer and sickle symbol stands for the Gulag is almost like saying the US flag stands for slavery... it's only looking at part of the picture and part of the history.
Unlike Slavery, the Gulags and purges were a constant drumbeat in the Soviet era. Slavery ended with a Civil war, and that flag (Stars and Stripes) flew over the victors, whereas the Hammer-and-Sickle was the flag of the oppressors all through the gulag/kgb time period.

the Hammer and Sickle was the symbol of a system that oppressed the people in the People's name. It was the symbol of a system in which, to advance, you only needed to know how to ingratiate yourself to your superiors in the Party (which did not accept all who wished to join equally.) Without Party Membership, you could not become an Officer in the Military, hold a Security Clearance, obtain higher education, or materially improve your economic status. You also could not become a leader in the Labour unions, or hold a management position in industry. Non-Party members need not apply to run for office, either.
If you were, for whatever reason, expelled from the Party, it was off to the Gulag with you...after a stint in prison. Sakharov being the best example of this, but far from the only one.

Is this getting through to you yet? Party membership was the ONLY path in the Soviet Union to upward mobility, and Forced Labour wasn't an "aberration" it was "The Norm". Every non-member of the Communist Party was a second-class citizen at best.

I think of freedom, liberty, democracy, equality, solidarity and the struggle against all forms of oppression and exploitation.

Unlike Slavery, the Gulags and purges were a constant drumbeat in the Soviet era. Slavery ended with a Civil war, and that flag (Stars and Stripes) flew over the victors, whereas the Hammer-and-Sickle was the flag of the oppressors all through the gulag/kgb time period.

the Hammer and Sickle was the symbol of a system that oppressed the people in the People's name. It was the symbol of a system in which, to advance, you only needed to know how to ingratiate yourself to your superiors in the Party (which did not accept all who wished to join equally.) Without Party Membership, you could not become an Officer in the Military, hold a Security Clearance, obtain higher education, or materially improve your economic status. You also could not become a leader in the Labour unions, or hold a management position in industry. Non-Party members need not apply to run for office, either.
If you were, for whatever reason, expelled from the Party, it was off to the Gulag with you...after a stint in prison. Sakharov being the best example of this, but far from the only one.

Is this getting through to you yet? Party membership was the ONLY path in the Soviet Union to upward mobility, and Forced Labour wasn't an "aberration" it was "The Norm". Every non-member of the Communist Party was a second-class citizen at best.

Have you ever tried to obtain a high postion in the Vatican without being a member of the Catholic church?

And the gulags ended in 1960, the Sovjet Union in 1992. Saying that the flag symbolises exclusively the Leninist/Stalinist era is simply ignoring 30 years of history.
I know that the US abolished slavery, that was my point. And the USSR abolished the Gulags.

Unlike Slavery, the Gulags and purges were a constant drumbeat in the Soviet era. Slavery ended with a Civil war, and that flag (Stars and Stripes) flew over the victors, whereas the Hammer-and-Sickle was the flag of the oppressors all through the gulag/kgb time period.So you'd find the Stars and Bars worse than the Hammer and Sickle?

I'm reminded of how all through school, everyone used to tell me how global nuclear war was inevitable, and how the USA and the USSR will most definitely destroy each other with ICBMs. I kept telling them it wouldn't happen. It looks like I was right.

For those of you who keep trying to associate the US flag with slavery, the current US flag represents the side that ended slavery. It was the Confederate flag that stood for the side that tried to keep it around.

I'm reminded of how all through school, everyone used to tell me how global nuclear war was inevitable, and how the USA and the USSR will most definitely destroy each other with ICBMs. I kept telling them it wouldn't happen. It looks like I was right.Oh, yeah? Prove it! :p

A farming implement and a common household/construction tool. ;)

I'm reminded of how all through school, everyone used to tell me how global nuclear war was inevitable, and how the USA and the USSR will most definitely destroy each other with ICBMs. I kept telling them it wouldn't happen. It looks like I was right.

For those of you who keep trying to associate the US flag with slavery, the current US flag represents the side that ended slavery. It was the Confederate flag that stood for the side that tried to keep it around.

Not 100% true, really. For all I know the confederate flag was created when the federation tried to split from the union in order to keep the slaves thay had, so before that point in time they lived happily under the one US flag and bought and sold other people.

I just made a tee shirt with a hammer and sickle on the front.
On the back it has a quote from Lenin- "We will hang the last capitalist with the rope he sells us"

I just made a tee shirt with a hammer and sickle on the front.
On the back it has a quote from Lenin- "We will hang the last capitalist with the rope he sells us"

:D Oh, I like that one.

Cabra West I'm pretty left-wing but I'm alarmed to see you trying to justify the acts of Soviet dictatorships. I thought you were for peace.

Cabra West I'm pretty left-wing but I'm alarmed to see you trying to justify the acts of Soviet dictatorships. I thought you were for peace.

Oh no no no no no no. There is no way I'm going to justify anything the Sovjets did.
But I'm for keeping the perspective when it comes to history. And comparing a swastika to the hammer-and-sickle flag is a bit like comparing apples to pears just because they both grow on trees...

I think failure. Failed plans and dreams.

I also think of the Star of David more than the Swastika when i think of the Holocaust. I also think of the Rainbow flag too (remember, it weren't only the Jews killed).

I think of Hinduism when I think Swastika, I see the real one with the dots when I hear the word (or the one on Manji's back in Blade of the Immortal).

Thats for anarcho-syndicalist rich boys who dont understand communism

Aren't anarcho-syndicalists mostly workers planning on seizing factories?

agreed. Krakatao's statement is more or less a description of what Sweden's government is doing, rather than the banner under which they're doing it. describing the method, rather than the Ideals that put the power to use that method into place.
How is the Swedish government destroying the Swedish economy?

Oh no no no no no no. There is no way I'm going to justify anything the Sovjets did.
But I'm for keeping the perspective when it comes to history. And comparing a swastika to the hammer-and-sickle flag is a bit like comparing apples to pears just because they both grow on trees...
Well, apples are rather comparable to pears.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Redflag.jpg
Thats for pure spineless "Utopian" or "democratic" socialists

Yes let's stick to the weekly meetings for the revolution due to take place at some vague point in the future, if we can be bothered. :rolleyes:

Aren't anarcho-syndicalists mostly workers planning on seizing factories?

Anarchists. I just dont tend to get on with. Sorry, a lot of them can be nice people, but from an ideological viewpoint i dont get them.

Yes let's stick to the weekly meetings for the revolution due to take place at some vague point in the future, if we can be bothered. :rolleyes:
Oh sorry, let's just found a party and move further and further to the right in the hope of capturing the vote of a misinformed public

Anarchists. I just dont tend to get on with. Sorry, a lot of them can be nice people, but from an ideological viewpoint i dont get them.

Don't worry, I feel the same way about many Marxists, particularly now that I'm reading 1984. It has really dampened my respect for Leninism, etc. to be honest.

Don't worry, I feel the same way about many Marxists, particularly now that I'm reading 1984. It has really dampened my respect for Leninism, etc. to be honest.

filthy anarchist...*grumble grumble*...bloody kronstadt.... smash them.... *grumble*

Voted other: reminds me of human stupidity :p

It does not represent communism or socialism to me, because there are countries that represent it much better, Sweeden was brought up already, another one is Norway, other Scandinavian countries are good examples as well. These countries are closer to communism than USSR ever was. Using UN ratings in NS USSR was somewhere between corupt dictatorship and psychotic dictatorship, and that includes Gorbachev :sniper:

From the point of view of someone who lived there, it does represent socialism and freedom as long as you do not involve government into it. It is just different freedom from what USA and West European countries understand as freedom. It boils down to what path of logic you take, you can be free to speak your mind, or you can have free health, education, appartament and a guaranteed job.

And people actuly did speak feirly freely, usualy through anicdotes. It was far from what communism was in theory, but it was better than anarchy that Gorbachev brought on the country, that lasted a decade killing a lot of people, leaving old and defensless homeless to die, driving fmilies apart due to the lack of jobs and ruining large ares of fertile land, that now need large investments to bring back. So I think he is just as stupid a**hole as his predosessors, despite that a good chunk of my family 2 generations ago was killed on siberian vecations.

Well enough of ranting.

filthy anarchist...*grumble grumble*...bloody kronstadt.... smash them.... *grumble*

Sorry, I didn't mean to hit a nerve. I do recommend 1984, though. It's a good book so far.

I chose other because it makes me think of the U.S.S.R. because I associate the symbol with the flag of Soviet Russia.

Don't worry, I feel the same way about many Marxists, particularly now that I'm reading 1984. It has really dampened my respect for Leninism, etc. to be honest.Leninism was one of the worst ideas ever. He came up with the wonderful plan to abolish the soviets and give the "professional revolutionaries" like himself tenures.

Stalingrad.

I see Communism. A dangerous ideology that is a threat to democracy and that probably should've never been thought up in the first place.

People in the time of the Czars got exiled to Siberia too you know, in fact the Czars were very oppressive as was most of the Russian nobility. I am speaking as a person who descends on the paternal side from Russian nobility and it's important to acknowlege bad as Communism was, it in some ways was at least the intent and effort to make things better.
Did this always work? NO of course NOT!
Does Democracy always work? NO of course NOT!
Fascism always had bad intentions. Especially Nazi fascism in Germany and Austria did.
There are reasons people in the United States and the United Kingdom would have more problems with the Nazis than with the Communists, 1. Fascists seemed always to be so much better organized. 2. Our countries were at war with the Fascists, and not with the Communists, there wasn't seen to be a problem with Communists until after WWII was over. Germany however was seen as problematic long before WWII, problems with both Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire go back much further in fact.
Just wanted to put out some of the historical and psychological reasons aside from the Holocaust that so many people have a far greater problem with Nazism than with Communism.
Yes Stalin killed many more people than Hitler, that's a given, but there was not the intent specifically to kill certain races only. He killed people who opposed him. Most dictators do that. Some of the minorities he killed in great numbers or exiled, he exiled or killed in great numbers due to their opposition to Communism specifically. That is part of why the Chechens came in for his 'special attention'.
Still killing political opponants of random sorts is however evil and uncalled for, a very different thing from the systematic killing of members of a given race simply for being of that race in whole or in part. Under his own policies, Hitler himself should have been sent to a concentration camp! It is well known he was 1/16th Jewish! That's cutting it very fine indeed!

"Survey: What do you think when you see the hammer and sickle?"

:mp5: :sniper: :mp5: :sniper:

For some reason I've always associated the hammer and sickle with satan. :D
in other words... Satan/Communism... I don't believe in either one.

Unlike Slavery, the Gulags and purges were a constant drumbeat in the Soviet era. Slavery ended with a Civil war, and that flag (Stars and Stripes) flew over the victors, whereas the Hammer-and-Sickle was the flag of the oppressors all through the gulag/kgb time period.

the Hammer and Sickle was the symbol of a system that oppressed the people in the People's name. It was the symbol of a system in which, to advance, you only needed to know how to ingratiate yourself to your superiors in the Party (which did not accept all who wished to join equally.) Without Party Membership, you could not become an Officer in the Military, hold a Security Clearance, obtain higher education, or materially improve your economic status. You also could not become a leader in the Labour unions, or hold a management position in industry. Non-Party members need not apply to run for office, either.
If you were, for whatever reason, expelled from the Party, it was off to the Gulag with you...after a stint in prison. Sakharov being the best example of this, but far from the only one.

Is this getting through to you yet? Party membership was the ONLY path in the Soviet Union to upward mobility, and Forced Labour wasn't an "aberration" it was "The Norm". Every non-member of the Communist Party was a second-class citizen at best.

Untrue.

My family members got higher education without entering the Party, they held security clearances, you could very well become an officer in the army, and of course you could earn some money wihout joining the Party. ;)

Expulsion from the Party did not lead to automatic imprisonment, although in 1937-1938 it was quite close.

I think of crazy guerilla warfare in the jungles of Bolivia. And I also think of Soviet battle tanks.

I see lots of things. A hammer. A sickle. A hammer and sickle crossed. The beginings of communism(damn commies), Russia(James Bond), Soviet expansion, that movie, the wolverrins where Cuba and Russia invade the U.S. and a band of teens defend their home(they're packin' heat! :mp5: :sniper: ).
It also reminds me of WWII where the Russians kept sending in person after person to die, For some reason Monty Python, and finally my computer, which has a hammer stuck in the side of it(A sticker, I'm not mean to my computer.), and a sickle drawing on my desk. :D