NationStates Jolt Archive

It is happening! This may be the first of many crackdowns against illegal immigration. Something I wanted for a long time.

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/380420nm08-13-05.htm

Gov. Bill Richardson declared a state of emergency along New Mexico's 180-mile border with Mexico on Friday, pledging $1.75 million to beef up law enforcement and tackle increasing crime.
"Recent developments have convinced me this action is necessary— including violence directed at law enforcement, damage to property and livestock, increased evidence of drug smuggling, and an increase in the number of undocumented immigrants," Richardson said in a prepared statement.
He toured the area near the busy border town of Columbus by helicopter and on the ground Friday before announcing the new initiatives.
The Mexican government, which has long opposed any increased border fencing, immediately criticized Richardson's actions.
Southwestern New Mexico residents praised the moves and said even more are needed.
"This is a great beginning," said Luna County Commissioner Rick Holdridge by phone.

---

The Mexican Government has done shit to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, drugs and crime, therefore I feel that states should declare a state of emergency all across the border with Mexico.

Lets hope Arnold Schwarzenegger can do the same.

Well, unlike New Mexico, we in California are mostly benefitting from these immigrants. Legal or not.

Sure, we do get bad eggs every once in a while. But we get a LOT more people willing to work for themselves.

Our economy is the 5th or 6th largest in the world. Illegal immigrants are among many to thank for this.

Let's legalize all immigration at the same time. Better that way.

Well, unlike New Mexico, we in California are mostly benefitting from these immigrants. Legal or not.

Sure, we do get bad eggs every once in a while. But we get a LOT more people willing to work for themselves.

They can come in legally. They can do it documented. I'm perfectly for legal immigration. But illegal immigration is costing us more then it is benefiting.

This is long needed. This will stem the flow of drugs into this country.

"Let's legalize all immigration at the same time."

Bad move.

An imaginary line drawn on the ground....by chance you're born on one side of it and life's good, you have opportunity and a chance at a good life...but if fate casts your lot on the other side of it you're condemned to a life of poverty and limited means, all the opportunities are on the other side of that imaginary line and your chances of getting there legally are zip.


Yeah...I can get behind the idea of cracking down on illegal immigration...

NOT!

They can come in legally. They can do it documented. I'm perfectly for legal immigration. But illegal immigration is costing us more then it is benefiting.

This is long needed. This will stem the flow of drugs into this country.

"Let's legalize all immigration at the same time."

Bad move.
Why is it a bad move? We make far more money on immigrants then we lose. Look at the chinese. We tried to keep them out for how long? Now it's a literal stereotype that they are hard working and intelligent. Think if we had them earlier and didn't try to keep them out.


I reeeellly shouldn't be here.

They can come in legally. They can do it documented. I'm perfectly for legal immigration. But illegal immigration is costing us more then it is benefiting.

This is long needed. This will stem the flow of drugs into this country.

"Let's legalize all immigration at the same time."

Bad move.
Sometimes there just isn't the money available to come in legally. And there's an entire family back home in Mexico who needs the money. Yeah, I read Lupita Manana. *gags at book*

And you want to stem the flow of drugs into our country? Try getting the government to help out more with my mother's country of Colombia. THAT'S where the drug problem is.

Why don't you just join the "Freedom militia" or whatever in Arizona. Even though they're not doing anything anymore cuz they pussied out once summer came, I'm sure you can make your own one man militia or something.

Why is it a bad mood? We make far more money on immigrants then we lose. Look at the chinese. We tried to keep them out for how long? Now it's a literal stereotype that they are hard working and intelligent. Think if we had them earlier and didn't try to keep them out.

No, no and hell NO.

We are being fucked over.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR.

-----

No.

NO!

NO TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!

No, no and hell NO.

We are being fucked over.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR.

-----

No.

NO!

NO TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!

We end up making a cool million, net per immigrant. Not including their children, or their children, etc. It cascades. We gain a hell of a lot more from immigration then we lose, no matter what FAIR says. It's the same old argument, time after time (irish, italians, chinese, etc etc etc), and time after time we've come out far stronger then before.

No, no and hell NO.

We are being fucked over.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.

Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.$10.5 billion certainly is a large number. Now how about looking for the even larger amount of money made my these illegal immigrants that make up a huge number of the workforce that deals with our states's largest export - agriculture!

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR.

Nah, our state would be further in bankruptcy if we got rid of illegal immigrants.

We end up making a cool million, net per immigrant. Not including their children, or their children, etc. It cascades. We gain a hell of a lot more from immigration then we lose, no matter what FAIR says. It's the same old argument, time after time (irish, italians, chinese, etc etc etc), and time after time we've come out far stronger then before.

Prove it.

Ahh, you guys can afford it. Quit grousing.

And you want to stem the flow of drugs into our country? Try getting the government to help out more with my mother's country of Colombia. THAT'S where the drug problem is.

Colombia President Uribe has been launching an all out war against drug production causing cocaine production to decline heavily. He has done this with large military assistance.

<snip>
NO TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
Go to the fucking border and shoot them if it troubles you so deeply! Not that they don't die already. Maybe if America was a shithole like Mexico, they wouldn't bother coming over, so I say, you make America a shithole.

Prove it.
Sigh. 100,000. Stupid threads at 2 AM...

Taking the difference between taxes paid and benefits received by immigrants, the National Research Council reported in 1997 that there was a “significant positive gain” of up to $10 billion a year to native Americans, noting that while an immigrant with less than high-school education had a negative long-term fiscal impact of $13,000, a better educated immigrant produced a long-term gain of $198,000. In 2002 the President's Council of Economic Advisers put the gain at up to $14 billion a year.
...
But do the hardliners have a workable alternative? Deporting several million illegal aliens would be a logistical and financial nightmare, and a moral one, too, since American-born children would have the right to stay behind. Similarly, sanctions against employers of illegal aliens look like a non-starter: bosses point out that they cannot be expected to be experts on forged documents, and in any case few politicians want to alarm the very businessmen who finance their election campaigns.

Paradoxically, the best solution might well be to relax, not tighten, the restrictions on immigration. The libertarian-minded Cato Institute argues that when barriers to entry are low, migration becomes a circular process. Under the bracero (strong arm or labourer) programme that ran from 1942 to 1964, Mexican workers entered and left the American labour market almost at will (albeit under deplorable working conditions). By contrast, when barriers are high, there is every incentive to come and then stay.

Using as his example Puerto Rico, which like Mexico is poor but which, unlike Mexico, has no immigration barrier to the American mainland, Cato's Daniel Griswold notes that during the 1980s, 46% of the Puerto Ricans who moved to the mainland stayed for less than two years. By the 1990s “out-migration had stopped completely, despite persistently high unemployment.” Legalising Mexican migration, says Mr Griswold, would at a stroke “bring a huge underground market into the open” and improve working conditions for millions of the low-skilled.


Yes, I'm playing average. Oh, from the economist. Pay-per-view, I'm afraid, though I can give you a screen cap if you'd like.

Maybe if America was a shithole like Mexico, they wouldn't bother coming over, so I say, you make America a shithole.
It's not for lack of trying...

Colombia President Uribe has been launching an all out war against drug production causing cocaine production to decline heavily. He has done this with large military assistance.
Yes, he's been doing well. But the war is NOT over yet.

Colombia is the U.S.'s 3rd or 4th biggest receiver of U.S. funds, I believe. 1st being Isreal. That needs to be heavily stepped up and a larger force needs to be sent in to defeat the FARC.

Sigh. 100,000. Stupid threads at 2 AM...

Taking the difference between taxes paid and benefits received by immigrants, the National Research Council reported in 1997 that there was a “significant positive gain” of up to $10 billion a year to native Americans, noting that while an immigrant with less than high-school education had a negative long-term fiscal impact of $13,000, a better educated immigrant produced a long-term gain of $198,000. In 2002 the President's Council of Economic Advisers put the gain at up to $14 billion a year.
...

Source?

Look I'm all for legal immigration. In fact that's totally fine with me. I'm for lax restrictions when it comes to that. But I want people documented.

Go to the fucking border and shoot them if it troubles you so deeply! Not that they don't die already. Maybe if America was a shithole like Mexico, they wouldn't bother coming over, so I say, you make America a shithole.

Isn't it already a shithole?

Come up to canada, niggaz!

fuck, remind me NEVER to say 'niggaz' again -_-"

Source?

Look I'm all for legal immigration. In fact that's totally fine with me. I'm for lax restrictions when it comes to that. But I want people documented.
Economist. Sorry about that, forgot it. See above, edited in.


I don't disagree with you, they should be documented. But anyone who wants in should be let in, with a few obvious exceptions (public health, terrorism).

Look I'm all for legal immigration. In fact that's totally fine with me. I'm for lax restrictions when it comes to that. But I want people documented.
How Soviet of you.

Papers, please.

Yes, he's been doing well. But the war is NOT over yet.

Colombia is the U.S.'s 3rd or 4th biggest receiver of U.S. funds, I believe. 1st being Isreal. That needs to be heavily stepped up and a larger force needs to be sent in to defeat the FARC.

Uribe has been developing a larger military. You can't do it overnight. Come on.. how many decades has Colombia been in civil war? Four decades? Five decades? He's been doing extremely well in turning to tide towards the Colombian government in the few years he's been in office... and he needs a second term too. At least the country isn't governed by an idiot like Pastrana.

First off, the war on drugs is doomed to fail anyway. Prohibition fails. Read practically any public school drug survey and kids'll tell you that it's a helluva lot easier to get pot than what's legal and taxed, such as beer and cigarettes.

Secondly, try picking up a history book if you wanna see proof of the various different groups of immigrants and how they've contributed to this nation. Most of those books are right-wing trash, anyway, but, regardless, the proof's there. The Irish and Chinese, in particular, built our railroads leading to the economic boom of the late 1800's. The only reason many people were actually bad-off at the time was due to a severe lack of regulation on business, urban development, etc, things that the far-right conservative folks don't want you to know.

How Soviet of you.

Papers, please.
I believe he's talking about green cards and such, not literal tracking.

I'm pro all immigration because I think it would be awesome if America became a Hispanic country some day. With the rate of illegal immigration, it's possible! Besides, I LOVE Mexican food. LOVE it. More Mexicans = More Mexican food.

Plus I sort of see this as karma, you know? It's kinda payback for militarilly annexing around 1 Million square miles of sovreign Mexican territory in an act of unprovoked aggression, for 100 years of using force and espionage to mess in Latin American politics - assassinating politicians, military occupations, backing military coups, supporting barbaric guerilla groups, mining harbours, giving the thumbs up to dictatorial sometimes fascist regimes, etc.

It's all coming back to us. Somewhere there's a Mexican Buddhist monk laughing his ass off. :)

How Soviet of you.

Papers, please.

We, legal citizens are ALL documented. We all have social security numbers. This isn't soviet. :rolleyes:

Uribe has been developing a larger military. You can't do it overnight. Come on.. how many decades has Colombia been in civil war? Four decades? Five decades? He's been doing extremely well in turning to tide towards the Colombian government in the few years he's been in office... and he needs a second term too. At least the country isn't governed by an idiot like Pastrana.
Yes but you do agree that things can develop even quicker for the U.S. drug problem if we Americans turn our attention from Mexico and toward Colombia?

And yes green cards.

First off, the war on drugs is doomed to fail anyway. Prohibition fails. Read practically any public school drug survey and kids'll tell you that it's a helluva lot easier to get pot than what's legal and taxed, such as beer and cigarettes.

Oh yeah?

http://www.drkoop.com/newsdetail/93/1503292.html

Usage is declining.

"Current use of marijuana, the most commonly used illicit drug, decreased from 16.6 percent to 14.8 percent of students"

The war on drugs isn't failing in Colombia.

How Soviet of you.

Papers, please.
So now it’s communist/fascist to want to know who is in your country?
I’m for anybody coming here that wants to, provided they do not have a major contagious illness, are not a criminal by US definition of law, and do not have connections to terrorist organizations that are anti-US, but we need to know who is here under our current system. Now, if the government somehow magically underwent transformation into a libertarian state, it wouldn’t matter if we knew who was here or not.

Yes but you do agree that things can develop even quicker for the U.S. drug problem if we Americans turn our attention from Mexico and toward Colombia?
If you halt the movement of drugs along mexico's boarder, you'd stop quite a bit of the drug trafficing.

Yes but you do agree that things can develop even quicker for the U.S. drug problem if we Americans turn our attention from Mexico and toward Colombia?

I think we should focus good amounts of attention on both. Mexico has a serious problem with crime along the border, and a very bad drug problem.

Source?

Look I'm all for legal immigration. In fact that's totally fine with me. I'm for lax restrictions when it comes to that. But I want people documented.Legal immegration from Mexico is a joke. Your average farmworker would die of old age many years before he was granted a visa. We'll take the doctors and lawyers and well off college bound students, but work visas for laborers are non-existant.

So just how do you propose they immigrate legally?

But the War on Drugs in Colombia is perhaps one of the most crucial battlefields, no? And it actually is a battlefield. A physical one that can actually be won. It can be won within 3 years if we sent a huge American force to Colombia to root out FARC.

Legal immegration from Mexico is a joke. Your average farmworker would die of old age many years before he was granted a visa. We'll take the doctors and lawyers and well off college bound students, but work visas for laborers are non-existant.

So just how do you propose they immigrate legally?
Legal immigration from anywhere is a joke. The guy who invented linux is still waiting for his green card, almost three years after applying for one.

Legal immegration from Mexico is a joke. Your average farmworker would die of old age many years before he was granted a visa. We'll take the doctors and lawyers and well off college bound students, but work visas for laborers are non-existant.


I propose laxing restrictions for work visas and improving efficency in the Department of State and also make sure they are properly documented.

All I know is this sounds like the kind of dialogue I'd expect behind the scenes and under the Blue Dome in the world of 'The Prisoner'. But like Patrick McGoohan, I will not be "pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered." My life is my own.

Be seeing you!

But the War on Drugs in Colombia is perhaps one of the most crucial battlefields, no? And it actually is a battlefield. A physical one that can actually be won. It can be won within 3 years if we sent a huge American force to Colombia to root out FARC.
Remember what happened the last time we got into jungle warfare?



That said, there are enough independent operators that can keep the drug ring running even if FARC was destroyed.

But the War on Drugs in Colombia is perhaps one of the most crucial battlefields, no? And it actually is a battlefield. A physical one that can actually be won. It can be won within 3 years if we sent a huge American force to Colombia to root out FARC.

We shouldn't send a huge American force into Colombia. Let the Colombian Army to grow to like 450,000 and they can deal with it. We are giving them lots of military equipment. And the tide has turned big time.. the Colombian Military can do it because they feel confident in their leader.

If you halt the movement of drugs along mexico's boarder, you'd stop quite a bit of the drug trafficing.
Colombia exports the largest amount of cocaine to the U.S.

Colombia is also where Al-Qaeda went and contacted drug lords to see if they would poison their cocaine and ship it to the U.S.

Not Mexico.

I propose laxing restrictions for work visas and improving efficency in the Department of State and also make sure they are properly documented.Well channel your energy into fixing that and stop bitching about "illegal immigration" here. Your rant isn't doing anything to solve the problem.

All I know is this sounds like the kind of dialogue I'd expect behind the scenes and under the Blue Dome in the world of 'The Prisoner'. But like Patrick McGoohan, I will not be "pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered." My life is my own.

Be seeing you!

You're full of it. Everyone has documentation. I have a passport, a social security number, a California ID... this isn't tracking people with GPS or something like that. This is simply getting these people registered.

Remember what happened the last time we got into jungle warfare?



That said, there are enough independent operators that can keep the drug ring running even if FARC was destroyed.
It's not really as Vietnam as Vietnam was Vietnam.

Colombia exports the largest amount of cocaine to the U.S.

Colombia is also where Al-Qaeda went and contacted drug lords to see if they would poison their cocaine and ship it to the U.S.

Not Mexico.
How does it get here? Ports and by car, right? (or carrier)


Cut off the supply chain and both sides wither.

You're full of it. Everyone has documentation. I have a passport, a social security number, a California ID... this isn't tracking people with GPS or something like that. This is simply getting these people registered.
Mesa, you need proof of the article, or will you take my word?

It's kinda payback for militarilly annexing around 1 Million square miles of sovreign Mexican territory in an act of unprovoked aggression
Unprovoked aggression? It was a border dispute. Also, the Mexicans still considered Texas part of Mexico, and we wanted to get to the Pacific Ocean. Just so you know, they spilled the first blood, not us.

Mesa, you need proof of the article, or will you take my word?

I'll take your word on that one. I just want people documented.

You're full of it. Everyone has documentation. I have a passport, a social security number, a California ID... this isn't tracking people with GPS or something like that. This is simply getting these people registered.
Better to be full of it than devoid of it. Humanity, that is.

I refuse to acknowledge any number assigned to me. I am a free man.

Better to be full of it than devoid of it. Humanity, that is.

I refuse to acknowledge any number assigned to me. I am a free man.

I'm devoid of humanity?

Dude, you're truly full of it.

I'm devoid of humanity?

Dude, you're truly full of it.
At least I'm free.

At least I'm free.

I'm free too. I'm also supportive of law enforcement.

Unprovoked aggression? It was a border dispute. Also, the Mexicans still considered Texas part of Mexico, and we wanted to get to the Pacific Ocean. Just so you know, they spilled the first blood, not us.
To add onto your post...

Mexico declared war on the U.S. after Texas seceded from Mexico, became its own nation, and then decided to be annexed by the U.S. Mexico took it as an aggresive attack on its own territory and declared war.

The U.S. took lands that were already settled by many English-speakers and not lands that were Mexican-dominated.

I'm free too. I'm also supportive of law enforcement.
Then you're free to support Law enforcement. How very good for you.

Unprovoked aggression? It was a border dispute. Also, the Mexicans still considered Texas part of Mexico, and we wanted to get to the Pacific Ocean. Just so you know, they spilled the first blood, not us.

Yes. Unprovoked agression. I don't know who spilled the absolute first blood, but I know who it went down -

It was a border dispute. The US claimed that Texas went to the Rio Grande, whereas Mexico insisted that the border stopped at the Nueces. Polk ordered General Zachory Taylor to enter the disputed zone, where he commenced to build a fort along the Rio Grande. The act of occupying land that a foreign nation believes to belong to it is an act of aggression, but building a fort - a military installation - is a direct threat to that nation. Mexican calvary divisions intervened and captured a US division(not attacked, captured), which lead to a series of border clashes. The first one being at Palo Alto - where Mexican troops besieged "Ft. Texas," the fort being built. The US "Army of Observation," then engaged the Mexicans, in the first official battle of the war.

Mexico was within it's rights the whole way. It was the US that used force to occupy disputed territory, it was the US who began militarizing that zone, and it was the US that started the first real engagement of that war - Palo Alto. Mexico showed remarkable restraint, capturing rather than killing, beseiging rather than attacking. It was the US that chose to provoke a war rather than use diplomacy.

Oh, and it matters nothing that the US wanted to get to the Pacific. Manifest Destiny is not an excuse for aggression or annexation. They had absolutely NO claim to to any of that land, save the part of the modern-day state of Texas that was independent and joined the US of it's own free will.

To add onto your post...

Mexico declared war on the U.S. after Texas seceded from Mexico, became its own nation, and then decided to be annexed by the U.S. Mexico took it as an aggresive attack on its own territory and declared war.

The U.S. took lands that were already settled by many English-speakers and not lands that were Mexican-dominated.

Ya, Texas became the Lone Star Republic for a SHORT time until it joined the US. Texas fought and won the war against mexico before it was a US state. The US has no political responsibilty if you want to look at it like that.

------

Now to the topic. YES! Stop illegal immigration. There is proof that they are more likely to be abused and part of crimes. Also they are afraid to go to hospitals if they are injured, I'd say make all illegal immigrants part of the US now and relax the laws on immigration and tighten security on our borders.

Yes. Unprovoked agression. I don't know who spilled the absolute first blood, but I know who it went down -

It was a border dispute. The US claimed that Texas went to the Rio Grande, whereas Mexico insisted that the border stopped at the Nueces. Polk ordered General Zachory Taylor to enter the disputed zone, where he commenced to build a fort along the Rio Grande. The act of occupying land that a foreign nation believes to belong to it is an act of aggression, but building a fort - a military installation - is a direct threat to that nation. Mexican calvary divisions intervened and captured a US division(not attacked, captured), which lead to a series of border clashes. The first one being at Palo Alto - where Mexican troops besieged "Ft. Texas," the fort being built. The US "Army of Observation," then engaged the Mexicans, in the first official battle of the war.

Mexico was within it's rights the whole way. It was the US that used force to occupy disputed territory, it was the US who began militarizing that zone, and it was the US that started the first real engagement of that war - Palo Alto. Mexico showed remarkable restraint, capturing rather than killing, beseiging rather than attacking. It was the US that chose to provoke a war rather than use diplomacy.


Ya, sure. Texas wasn't part of the US yet, it became its own nation. Read the post by Colodia. Then read mine if you want. Mexico lost because it couldn't control the immigrants and the people didn't want to be part of Mexico. Texas became the Lone Star Republic afterwards and it even had its own flag. Now it is a state. Texas at the time of the Mexican war wasn't a state of the US.

The U.S. should just annex Mexico...no more illegal immigrants, they'd all be US citizens and could travel at will. We could put an end to the open corruption the permeates Mexico and make Mexico's resources open (more than they already are) to exploitation by US businesses.

Of course all the businesses that currently exploit the lax environmental standards and low wages in Mexico would have to adjust to the higher US standards of wages and EPA regulations but hey.....

The U.S. should just annex Mexico...no more illegal immigrants, they'd all be US citizens and could travel at will. We could put an end to the open corruption the permeates Mexico and make Mexico's resources open (more than they already are) to exploitation by US businesses.

Of course all the businesses that currently exploit the lax environmental standards and low wages in Mexico would have to adjust to the higher US standards of wages and EPA regulations but hey.....

Or just move somewhere else, which would be entirely more likely.

Or just move somewhere else, which would be entirely more likely.
Yes, then we'd hear a lot of whining about the laxness of the border with Belize, no doubt.

Wait, someone says border control will help "stem the flow of drugs" into our country? *Laugh* I guess in your world, the Berlin Wall kept those pesky East Germans from entering into West Germany.

Yes, then we'd hear a lot of whining about the laxness of the border with Belize, no doubt.

belize has english as it's official language - so the whining wouldn't be focused on them. it'd be those shifty guatemalans.

belize has english as it's official language - so the whining wouldn't be focused on them. it'd be those shifty guatemalans.
Too true. Except... it'd be Mexicans whining at that point, so maybe they'd take umbrage with those pesky opportunistic Belizians, after all.