NationStates Jolt Archive

I see it very often. Everybody talking about how stupid anti-semitism is, how stupid racism is, how wrong they both are. They try to keep it down, they try to keep people from embracing it. But if it is so stupid, so wrong, why are they fighting against it? If it is as wrong/stupid as they say it is, then it's nothing to fear anyway... right?

And it doesn't end there. They give us the opposite, anti-racism, pro-"diversity", the UN, globalization, multiculturalism (McDonalds is VERY non-racist by the way)... it's like an ideology. They all say how logical and great and convenient it is. Ok, fine, so why do they repeat it all the time, cramming it down our throats? Why do they remind me of a used car dealer?

This is not to say i'm a kkk or aryan nations member (or anything even remotely resembling it), i'm just a free-thinking person who thinks this is very strange.

No apologies to those offended.

I see it very often. Everybody talking about how stupid anti-semitism is, how stupid racism is, how wrong they both are. They try to keep it down, they try to keep people from embracing it. But if it is so stupid, so wrong, why are they fighting against it? If it is as wrong/stupid as it is, then it's nothing to fear... right?Try telling that the victims of neo-nazi violence. Please try.

Try telling that the victims of neo-nazi violence. Please try.

Try telling that to victims of the original Nazis as well. :(

Try telling that the victims of neo-nazi violence. Please try.

What about african-american gangs? hispanic gangs? The only notable difference is race, culture and motive.

I believe that holocaust deniers have good evidence for what they claim, there were many instances of exaggerations and the fact that the Auschwitz camp today is a "rebuilt" one, since the first was destroyed.

I do find it offensive that in Europe, holocaust deniers can be imprisoned. Everyone has the right of free speech, even people who don't go along with the majority.

I'd like to remind everyone that Arabs are Semetic. Meaning, being anti-Semetic means you must be both against Jews, Arabs, and whatever other lesser-known ethnicity is Semetic.

What about african-american gangs? hispanic gangs? The only notable difference is race, culture and motive.

The same with them, but the biggest problems of Anti-Semitism comes from Neo-Nazis. Laerod's from Germany so they are much more prominent than other groups.

Racism and hate in all of its forms is condemnable and deserving of hatred regardless of its source.

Try telling that to victims of the original Nazis as well. :(

It was violent, of course. 6 million dead. the chinese revolution killed 50 million. that's a little more isn't it? is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?

What about african-american gangs? hispanic gangs? The only notable difference is race, culture and motive.

exactly. they should stop as well. racism is racism. you don't have to be white to be racist

I see it very often. Everybody talking about how stupid anti-semitism is, how stupid racism is, how wrong they both are. They try to keep it down, they try to keep people from embracing it. But if it is so stupid, so wrong, why are they fighting against it? If it is as wrong/stupid as they say it is, then it's nothing to fear anyway... right?

And it doesn't end there. They give us the opposite, anti-racism, pro-"diversity", the UN, globalization, multiculturalism (McDonalds is VERY non-racist by the way)... it's like an ideology. They all say how logical and great and convenient it is. Ok, fine, so why do they repeat it all the time, cramming it down our throats? Why do they remind me of a used car dealer?

This is not to say i'm a kkk or aryan nations member (or anything even remotely resembling it), i'm just a free-thinking person who thinks this is very strange.

No apologies to those offended.

It's because our society condones criticism of rascism, sexism, etc., in order to stop people from really trying to radically challenge liberal democracy. Read the Plea for Leninist Intolerance. It's under Zizek under articles on this site:

http://www.egs.edu/

What about african-american gangs? hispanic gangs? The only notable difference is race, culture and motive.I don't run into those. What I do run into are fucking skin heads that would beat the shit out of me if they found out I was American. They don't want my cash, they want me to bleed. And I'm white. The international students at my Uni that don't "blend in" as well have bigger problems.

Racism and hate in all of its forms is condemnable and deserving of hatred regardless of its source.

Our world needs hatred. From it our ideas are born. It's what shapes the world.
By the way, if hatred is condemnable and deserves hatred, are we any better if we hate it?

I believe that holocaust deniers have good evidence for what they claim, there were many instances of exaggerations and the fact that the Auschwitz camp today is a "rebuilt" one, since the first was destroyed.

This would only work as a validation if the fact that parts of Auschwitz had been rebuilt was a carefully controlled secret. It isn't, the info is out there in the open. With regard to this the Holocaust deniers are doing a classic straw man.

It was violent, of course. 6 million dead. the chinese revolution killed 50 million. that's a little more isn't it? is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?

And you say you're not anti-Semitic? That's a clear and untrue ethnic stereotype.

Anyway, the Revolution killed so many because the Japanese were raping the coast, there was famine, and there was a war going on. It wasn't systematic. The Holocaust was a systematic extermination of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and many other groups deemed fit by the engine of hatred known as National Socialism.

6 million Jews= 49% of the world Jewish population

It was violent, of course. 6 million dead. the chinese revolution killed 50 million. that's a little more isn't it? is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?It's 6 million to 0 if you only go by concentration camps. You'll have to figure the death toll in Europe in if you want to count the 50 million dead chinese.

you don't have to be white to be racist

Really? Doesn't seem like it.

It was violent, of course. 6 million dead. the chinese revolution killed 50 million. that's a little more isn't it? is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?

Maybe I haven't been paying attention but I have yet to see a violent Maoist terror group roaming the streets of my home town. Neo-nazi terror groups roaming the streets where I live? Yup.

Our world needs hatred. From it our ideas are born. It's what shapes the world.
By the way, if hatred is condemnable and deserves hatred, are we any better if we hate it?

There is just hatred. Hatred of evil is justified; recall "hate the sin, not the sinner"?

Hate does not drive ideas, rationalism and logic drive ideas. The world's darkest eras were born of hatred.

Our world needs hatred

alright. explain why.

I believe that holocaust deniers have good evidence for what they claim, there were many instances of exaggerations and the fact that the Auschwitz camp today is a "rebuilt" one, since the first was destroyed.

I do find it offensive that in Europe, holocaust deniers can be imprisoned. Everyone has the right of free speech, even people who don't go along with the majority.Holocaust deniers have no real good claims. I find it offensive that anyone who denys the holocaust can get away with it. I've deleted what I've been trying to say several times so I'm not going to bother. I've seen the shit that went on in those camps because the Nazis documented it. I do not find it acceptable at all that anyone can get away with denying that.

And you say you're not anti-Semitic? That's a clear and untrue ethnic stereotype.

Anyway, the Revolution killed so many because the Japanese were raping the coast, there was famine, and there was a war going on. It wasn't systematic. The Holocaust was a systematic extermination of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and many other groups deemed fit by the engine of hatred known as National Socialism.

6 million Jews= 49% of the world Jewish population

And Catholics, and Russians, and Sinti... I hate how people ignore everyone but the Jewish victims simply because there were more of them.

I know of the nazi thugs and the holocaust (holoca$h?). it's obvious. this is not what the thread is about. the question: why do so many become racists, why do they hate jewish people, when it is so stupid?

For all i know, maybe it isn't really - maybe we're just programmed and soicalized and indoctrinated by the post WWII liberal media to think it is stupid, wrong, immoral etc.

what about the Rwandan massacre of the tutsi by the hutus, you said we progress through hatred well look at them they havent progressed at all its plunged the country into poverty and large famines occur there. So if thats your meaning of progression through hatred then ya it happens a lot.

And Catholics, and Russians, and Sinti... I hate how people ignore everyone but the Jewish victims simply because there were more of them.

We can extend that to far more than 11 million if we include the murder of Ukrainians, Russians, and their POWs:

Ukrainians 5.5 - 7 million
Jews (of all countries) 6 million +
Russian POWs 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians 2 million +
Poles 3 million +
Yugoslavians 1.5 million +
Gypsies 200,000 - 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans Tens of thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500 - 5,000
Boy and Girl Scouts, Clergy, Communists, Czechs, Deportees, Greeks, Political Prisoners, Other POWs, Resistance Fighters, Serbs, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Others Unknown

Hate does not drive ideas, rationalism and logic drive ideas. The world's darkest eras were born of hatred.
I'm not so sure about this, Vetalia. By what do you mean "dark"? As in lack of sunlight?

I'm not so sure about this, Vetalia. By what do you mean "dark"? As in lack of sunlight?

No, Dark Ages. The times where hatred was strongest coincided with the lowest points of human achievement.

I know of the nazi thugs and the holocaust (<snipped>?). it's obvious. this is not what the thread is about. the question: why do so many become racists, why do they hate jewish people, when it is so stupid?

For all i know, maybe it isn't really - maybe we're just programmed and soicalized and indoctrinated by the post WWII liberal media to think it is stupid, wrong, immoral etc.Please refrain from playing around and making new words out of "holocaust". The last person I met that did that got DEAT'd.
Why do so many become racists? It's comfortable to place the blame on someone else. I'm grateful for the "post WWII liber media's indoctrination" because, frankly, it's right. I find the issue of homophobia stupid too, but people engage in it.

what about the Rwandan massacre of the tutsi by the hutus, you said we progress through hatred well look at them they havent progressed at all its plunged the country into poverty and large famines occur there. So if thats your meaning of progression through hatred then ya it happens a lot.

This problem is because of borders. When the English (i think) colonized, they made tutus and hutsis forget the borders to their areas and now they're fighting for it.

what do borders have to do with hutus being racist and killing the tutsi's? they country hasnt progressed after this massacre so racism does not help to power progression.

This problem is because of borders. When the English (i think) colonized, they made tutus and hutsis forget the borders to their areas and now they're fighting for it.Big problem in that area was the DR Congo, for which the Belgians are to blame as much as the bordering colonial power.

Can you mention one multicultural society that functioned for a long period of time?

Can you mention one multicultural society that functioned for a long period of time?

switzerland

Can you mention one multicultural society that functioned for a long period of time?Switzerland.

For all i know, maybe it isn't really - maybe we're just programmed and soicalized and indoctrinated by the post WWII liberal media to think it is stupid, wrong, immoral etc.
Out of curiousity, do you feel your point-of-view is representative of anyone other than yourself?

Can you mention one multicultural society that functioned for a long period of time?

Spain under the Moors circa 800-1500?

Big problem in that area was the DR Congo, for which the Belgians are to blame as much as the bordering colonial power.

Right. But the point is, people of another culture came in, disturbed the balance, and fucked everything up as they left. Maybe cultures should be segregated as to protect the cultures and those who uphold them.

what do you mean? multicultural society, the hutus and the tutsi where one people that the english or belgians forget who ruled them divided up into two groups based on appearance, and then set one in command above the other. all across europe there are different races living along side other reaces.

Can you mention one multicultural society that functioned for a long period of time?
Most major cities and city-states throughout history have been multicultural to one extent or another. Especially Port Cities along trade routes.

Spain under the Moors circa 800-1500?

In this case, the Moors actually dominated Spain. What i mean by multicultural is shared dominance, between two cultures, of same country.

Right. But the point is, people of another culture came in, disturbed the balance, and fucked everything up as they left. Maybe cultures should be segregated as to protect the cultures and those who uphold them.Maybe they shouldn't. See the two answers to your question above...

Its not hate that drives progress, its war. There are several examples of war inspireing a surge in research and technology (aviation research, A-bomb research, the space race, Penicillin etc). To go to war, hate isnt needed IMHO, just fear/ ignorance.

Can you mention one multicultural society that functioned for a long period of time?

India.

In this case, the Moors actually dominated Spain. What i mean by multicultural is shared dominance, between two cultures, of same country.Nice how you decide to criticize the Moors example but completely ignore Switzerland...

Spain under the Moors circa 800-1500?

The Roman Empire for about 2,206 years?

Hate/racism has never accomplished anything thats the point, it just creates mass slaughter and hurts everyone who is involved in it. Such as countrys getting torn apart and their economy being destroyed.

Nice how you decide to criticize the Moors example but completely ignore Switzerland...

exactly

The Roman Empire for about 2,206 years?

Huh?

Out of curiousity, do you feel your point-of-view is representative of anyone other than yourself?

1: i haven't said this is my actal ideas. this is a thought/value experiment.
2: i know quite a few (and a little too well, i'm afraid) who say these things i've mentioned here, so it's representative of them at least
3: i don't give a shite if you others don't agree. if we agreed there would be no discussion, no thought even. thinking is important.

Huh?
Your "Huh?" was right. The roman empire didn't exist that long. besides, this was dominated by romans, not romans & africans, not romans & latinos, not romans & vietnamese. Romans.

I can understand your questions, and I dont think you are racist I hope not. But I hope this discussion will help answer questions and show how wrong it is.

Your "Huh?" was right. The roman empire didn't exist that long. besides, this was dominated by romans, not romans & africans, not romans & latinos, not romans & vietnamese. Romans.Switzerland...

Huh?

Rome was very multicultural; there were Africans, Egyptians, Greeks, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Vandals, and dozens of other cultures in Spain, Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, and Palestine. They owned slaves, but anyone could become a citizen (freed slaves became instant citizens). Several emperors wern't even from Italy.

753 BC to 1453 AD (the Byzantines retained much of the Roman multicultural heritage, so I included them)

is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?
First, the crooked nose statement is rude. While some Jews do have crooked noses, many like me for example, do not. I can't speak for all Jews, but I find it offensive.

Secound, the Asian deaths in WWII are not forgotten. The riots in China a few months ago over Japenese text books supposed exclusion of the many deaths and massacures are proof of that.

Switzerland.

It's not that multicultural, i mean these are all european nationalities that have many things in common to begin with. different with people from two corners of the world although east asians and europeans seem to get along well.

"It was violent, of course. 6 million dead. the chinese revolution killed 50 million. that's a little more isn't it? is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?"

It was 6 million jews. Twelve million if you count gypsies, the handicapped, the mentally disable, Catholics, and a smattering of other racial groups including the blacks and almost anything that comes to mind.

And I dont believe that the author of this thread is saying that racism is ok, hes just saying that you cant force diversity, and doing so is really lame

It's not that multicultural, i mean these are all european nationalities that have many things in common to begin with. different with people from two corners of the world although east asians and europeans seem to get along well.Then I suppose Hutus and Tutsis are the same culture too? And please don't tell me German is similar to French or Italian, because our ways of life are completely different.

But to get back to the origin of this multi cultures governing a country the hutus and the tutsi where the same people just segragated through you guessed it racism. So if these to people had not been segregated in the first place they would not have fought each other for power.

753 BC to 1453 AD (the Byzantines retained much of the Roman multicultural heritage, so I included them)

Isn't the start of the Roman Empire as the Roman Empire normally taken from around the time of Augustus (whenever he was exactly) instead of the mythical date given for the founding of Rome? Certainly for the first couple of hundred years it was neither an Empire nor particularly multicultural.

This is becuase the majority of people are fucktards.

I mean look at our little smiely faces:
:mp5: :sniper: :gundge: :upyours:

The riots in China a few months ago over Japenese text books supposed exclusion of the many deaths and massacures are proof of that.

That's not what i'm talking about. those were done by japanese in the wwii. the cultural revolution was when the communists took over, and tortured/killled 50 million people either because they were rich, or because they didn't like communism, or as terror actions to scare the people into submission.

btw my nose is crooked as well, and i'm not jewish. and i'm sorry for that one on crooked noses if it hurt.

Isn't the start of the Roman Empire as the Roman Empire normally taken from around the time of Augustus (whenever he was exactly) instead of the mythical date given for the founding of Rome? Certainly for the first couple of hundred years it was neither an Empire nor particularly multicultural.


There were multiple cultures even at the founding of Rome in "753 BC" (Rome undobutedly existed before that, but that's when the Romans dated it from, so I use it for simplicity)

The kingdom was up until 510 BC, but they incorporated dozens of Latin tribes, the Etruscans, and some Gallic tribes. The Republic extended that to most of the cultures I mentioned, and the Empire added others like the cultures of Britannia, Germania, and the Palestinian cultures.

the cultural revolution was when the communists took over, and tortured/killled 50 million people either because they were rich, or because they didn't like communism, or as terror actions to scare the people into submission.

This is very true, but the fact that authoritarian statist Communism is a really bad idea, doesn't in itself improve the status of racism or anti-semitism as an idea.


Aside from which, if we want to be overly simplistic here, we can paint WWII as being entirely about racism or anti-semitism... it actually produced about 55 million casualties as a whole, so claiming that a comparison can be drawn between the atrocities of China and the atrocities of WWII to show that one is worse than the other is fudging the issue somewhat if we concentrate solely on the death camps.

Isn't the start of the Roman Empire as the Roman Empire normally taken from around the time of Augustus (whenever he was exactly) instead of the mythical date given for the founding of Rome? Certainly for the first couple of hundred years it was neither an Empire nor particularly multicultural.

the roman empire was about 400 bc to 500 ad. and the byzantines don't count.

the roman empire was about 400 bc to 500 ad. and the byzantines don't count.Why not? :confused:

I see it very often. Everybody talking about how stupid anti-semitism is, how stupid racism is, how wrong they both are. They try to keep it down, they try to keep people from embracing it. But if it is so stupid, so wrong, why are they fighting against it? If it is as wrong/stupid as they say it is, then it's nothing to fear anyway... right?

And it doesn't end there. They give us the opposite, anti-racism, pro-"diversity", the UN, globalization, multiculturalism (McDonalds is VERY non-racist by the way)... it's like an ideology. They all say how logical and great and convenient it is. Ok, fine, so why do they repeat it all the time, cramming it down our throats? Why do they remind me of a used car dealer?

This is not to say i'm a kkk or aryan nations member (or anything even remotely resembling it), i'm just a free-thinking person who thinks this is very strange.

No apologies to those offended.

I see your point and understand completely.
You at no point advocate Racism--if anyone read your postthey would see that.
You are correct in pointing out the "Hard Sell" mentality behind this masive push for cultural ambiguity (s/p?).

Of course you attract the stereotypical idiots who seek to place emotional value to a stated fact by making like "Tell that to victims of neo-Nazi violence, Klan violence, X-violence"

Well to that I say here is a novel idea--how about if A white guy beats up a white guy--we call it a crime

And if a white guy beats up a black guy--well shyt we call that a crime too--we'll even go so far as to treat it as an EQUAL crime by not offering any special provisions.

I believe this "push" towards a total 'white wash' culture is some strange PC resistance to man's natural fear and distaste for what is different to him.
I see nothing wrong with having those occasional thoughts of those who are different then you.
Suspicion
Hostility
Feeling the need to assert one's self.

It is in the manifestation of those thoughts that I find trouble.
I have never met a person of another race who doesnt admit to being taken by the occasional stereotype--we all do it, even if we dont admit it.
At least the racist is honest, now if we can educate that same racist to exercise his exaggerated xenophobia in productive instead of destructive ways--then real progress would be made.

Because let me be the first to say blacks and whites --in America at least-- are not culturally the same, while I see no obvious superior, there are obvious differences. I could go on at length on my own theories but I have no desire to.

But whatever, I will most likely be labled another hateful racist by the kind hearted tolerant people who proclaim so much to be both against generalization, yet seem so good at it.

--post script--
Before you yang yang me--keep in mind my sister is half black, I am part mexican/cheyenne, I live in a massive Arab Muslim community, I am a Baptist who attended a catholic school, my wife is part jewish(German who fled to france)--so dont presume to understand my pathology in a single paragraph.

This is very true, but the fact that authoritarian statist Communism is a really bad idea, doesn't in itself improve the status of racism or anti-semitism as an idea.

nor did i imply it. anti-racism has no actual proven status either. these are just values, and all values are subjective.

Why not? :confused:

I'm reminded here of that famous comment about the Holy Roman Empire and how it was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

nor did i imply it. anti-racism has no actual proven status either. these are just values, and all values are subjective.

Ah, but subjectivity is objective.

I see your point and understand completely.
You at no point advocate Racism--if anyone read your postthey would see that.
You are correct in pointing out the "Hard Sell" mentality behind this masive push for cultural ambiguity (s/p?).

Of course you attract the stereotypical idiots who seek to place emotional value to a stated fact by making like "Tell that to victims of neo-Nazi violence, Klan violence, X-violence"

Well to that I say here is a novel idea--how about if A white guy beats up a white guy--we call it a crime

And if a white guy beats up a black guy--well shyt we call that a crime too--we'll even go so far as to treat it as an EQUAL crime by not offering any special provisions.

I believe this "push" towards a total 'white wash' culture is some strange PC resistance to man's natural fear and distaste for what is different to him.
I see nothing wrong with having those occasional thoughts of those who are different then you.
Suspicion
Hostility
Feeling the need to assert one's self.

It is in the manifestation of those thoughts that I find trouble.
I have never met a person of another race who doesnt admit to being taken by the occasional stereotype--we all do it, even if we dont admit it.
At least the racist is honest, now if we can educate that same racist to exercise his exaggerated xenophobia in productive instead of destructive ways--then real progress would be made.

Because let me be the first to say blacks and whites --in America at least-- are not culturally the same, while I see no obvious superior, there are obvious differences. I could go on at length on my own theories but I have no desire to.

But whatever, I will most likely be labled another hateful racist by the kind hearted tolerant people who proclaim so much to be both against generalization, yet seem so good at it.

--post script--
Before you yang yang me--keep in mind my sister is half black, I am part mexican/cheyenne, I live in a massive Arab Muslim community, I am a Baptist who attended a catholic school, my wife is part jewish(German who fled to france)--so dont presume to understand my pathology in a single paragraph.


At last somebody understands what i've been trying to say all along.

Ah, but subjectivity is objective.

fair enough.

The Republic extended that to most of the cultures I mentioned, and the Empire added others like the cultures of Britannia, Germania, and the Palestinian cultures.

Taking the cultures of Britannia as an example here: those that bought into the Roman Empire ceased to continue in their prior culture and instead became Romano-Britons taking up Roman ways and mores, whereas those that didn't were either kept in place by force of arms, or excluded by physical wars across the landscape or only had the status of trading partners with no real other political involvement with the Empire.

That's not what i'm talking about. those were done by japanese in the wwii. the cultural revolution was when the communists took over, and tortured/killled 50 million people either because they were rich, or because they didn't like communism, or as terror actions to scare the people into submission.

btw my nose is crooked as well, and i'm not jewish. and i'm sorry for that one on crooked noses if it hurt.

Apology excepted.

And judging by the fact I got the cultural revolution mixed up with Japenese atrocities does prove that many Asian deaths are ignored. However not all of them are as you put it. I'm not entirerly sure why some slip through the cracks even though they are on such a huge scale and represent the worst humen beings can do to one another.

Its possible this one did is the Communists are still in power in China (Even if there not as Communist as they once were.) and the Nazis were defeated. I wonder if the Nazis were still around would even the remaining non-fascist countries make such a big deal out of the holocaust...

I hope massacures aren't only remembered if the side commiting the autrocities loses.

Taking the cultures of Britannia as an example here: those that bought into the Roman Empire ceased to continue in their prior culture and instead became Romano-Britons taking up Roman ways and mores, whereas those that didn't were either kept in place by force of arms, or excluded by physical wars across the landscape or only had the status of trading partners with no real other political involvement with the Empire.

But they still retained much of their original culture; they adopted Roman culture enough to assimilate but still retained their language and beliefs. The Empire didn't care what they did as long as it didn't question their rule.

Next, on Azerate opens his mouth: Political Correctness - Nice And Cozy Or Just A Weakness Fetish?

Next, on Azerate opens his mouth: Political Correctness - Nice And Cozy Or Just A Weakness Fetish?*groan*

But they still retained much of their original culture; they adopted Roman culture enough to assimilate but still retained their language and beliefs. The Empire didn't care what they did as long as it didn't question their rule.

Exactly what beliefs are you claiming they retained? Everytime the people of England get invaded or conquered they seem to do a remarkably good job of seizing the 'alien' culture and making it their own, whether it be by Romans, Christians, Normans or the Danes, they seem to shed their sets of beliefs like old skins.


Note: my earlier post was intended to say 'excluded by physical walls across the landscape', not 'wars'...

I hope massacures aren't only remembered if the side commiting the autrocities loses.

Sorry, Gibraltarland, but history is written by winners.

Sorry, Gibraltarland, but history is written by winners.

Unfortunitly your right...

I agree no one is not racist or atleast predjudice. But I think we should work to condemn racism as wrong and try and get ourselves past these sterotypes.

Sorry, Gibraltarland, but history is written by winners.

The fact that a thriving industry or revisionists/Holocaust deniers continues to operate shows that things aren't that cut-and-dried when it comes to who writes the history.*



* and yes this statement does operate on the hidden assumption that the vast majority of those who are revisionists in this context do themselves have Neo-Nazi leanings.

Exactly what beliefs are you claiming they retained? Everytime the people of England get invaded or conquered they seem to do a remarkably good job of seizing the 'alien' culutre and making it their own.

Note: my earlier post was intended to say 'excluded by physical walls across the landscape', not 'wars'...

Their religions, foods, music, art, clothing, etc. After the Empire abandoned England, they reverted to their more traditional lifestyle

As long as it didn't question the divinity of the emperor (most cultures were polytheistic so that wasn't a big problem) or refuse Roman rule, they were left alone.

It's true that England assimilates well; the English we're writing in is almost totally dependant on the Norman Conquest for its formation. :p

Sorry, Gibraltarland, but history is written by winners.Which is why everyone knows that Katyn wasn't committed by the Soviets...

Pfft, everyones knows history is written by the whiners. 'He who prevails, conquers' afterall.

And Catholics, and Russians, and Sinti... I hate how people ignore everyone but the Jewish victims simply because there were more of them.

The fact that makes the mass-murder of the Jewish population of Europe by Germany so horrifying is that it was the calculated, industrialized nature of the Holocaust. There were roughly nine-million Jews in Europe in 1939 I believe, and two-thirds of this population of law-abiding men, women, and children, regardless of nationality were systematically rounded up and sent to what were in essence death factories (Treblinka for example).That is what makes the Holocaust stand out, it was systematic, targeted, and perpetrated by a modern, industrialized Western society... The most terrible thing indeed is that Auschwitz is so well known, because in comparison to other death camps, it was quite survivable....there were according to Herman Wouk in "War and Remembrance", about 700 recorded escapes from Auschwitz, roughly a third successful. And twice that number of unrecorded escapes (most of which considering they were unrecorded by camp authorities can be assumed to be successful) added to a large number of survivors liberated at the end of the war....Treblinka is less well known because of the 350,000 innocent people sent to it...less than 100 survived, because it and other camps had the express purpose of killing all. They were Death factories...


That is what makes this such a horrific event, humanity at its absolute worst, its most depraved, probably the closest thing to pure evil as can be comprehended....There are few things I despise as much as a Holocaust denier...there are few things I respect as much as a Holocaust survivor.

Their religions, foods, music, art, clothing, etc. After the Empire abandoned England, they reverted to their more traditional lifestyle

Religion: nope, Christianity had come by that time and there was no going back.

Food: certainly during the Romano-British period distinctively Roman delicacies made their way to England even though they survived off local produce, but by the time the Empire had folded the whole face of agriculture had been changed by the Roman technological advances.

Music: your guess at what music in pre-Roman Britain was like is as good as mine, but in the post-Romano-Britain period we see instruments introduced by the Romans still prevalent in anglo-saxon times.

Art: once again pre-Roman art had been transformed by the technological advances under the Romans into something pretty much unrecognizable.

Clothing: determined mainly by climate throughout the Empire during teh Romano-Britain period, rather than by the fashions from the capital.

We can extend that to far more than 11 million if we include the murder of Ukrainians, Russians, and their POWs:

Ukrainians 5.5 - 7 million
Jews (of all countries) 6 million +
Russian POWs 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians 2 million +
Poles 3 million +
Yugoslavians 1.5 million +
Gypsies 200,000 - 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans Tens of thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500 - 5,000
Boy and Girl Scouts, Clergy, Communists, Czechs, Deportees, Greeks, Political Prisoners, Other POWs, Resistance Fighters, Serbs, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Others UnknownWow, you distributed the dead bodies in such an interesting way.

When you uncover a mass grave of Burned bodies...How the hell can you tell appart the Gypsy from the Jews from the Homosexuals from the mentally-disabled from the Ukrainian From the Poles???
http://www.parascope.com/gallery/galleryitems/holocaust/holocaust24.htm

Maybe they were mostly Gypsies...Or mostly Ukrainians...

Hollywood says the buried bodied were mostly Jews.

But why should I trust Hollywood?

The fact that makes the mass-murder of the Jewish population of Europe by Germany so horrifying is that it was the calculated, industrialized nature of the Holocaust.

Honest question: do you find the mass-murder by machete and shotgun that occurred in Rwanda less disturbing?

Sorry, Gibraltarland, but history is written by winners.
the Hollowcast History was Written by hollywood...and by the US media...

This is no simple reform. It really is a revolution. Sex and race because they are easy and visible differences have been the primary ways of organizing human beings into superior and inferior groups and into the cheap labour in which this system still depends. We are talking about a society in which there will be no roles other than those chosen or those earned. We are really talking about humanism.

I see it very often. Everybody talking about how stupid anti-semitism is, how stupid racism is, how wrong they both are. They try to keep it down, they try to keep people from embracing it. But if it is so stupid, so wrong, why are they fighting against it? If it is as wrong/stupid as they say it is, then it's nothing to fear anyway... right?

And it doesn't end there. They give us the opposite, anti-racism, pro-"diversity", the UN, globalization, multiculturalism (McDonalds is VERY non-racist by the way)... it's like an ideology. They all say how logical and great and convenient it is. Ok, fine, so why do they repeat it all the time, cramming it down our throats? Why do they remind me of a used car dealer?

This is not to say i'm a kkk or aryan nations member (or anything even remotely resembling it), i'm just a free-thinking person who thinks this is very strange.

No apologies to those offended.

This is the stupidest thing I've heard of in a loooong time. Racism is very stupid. When stupidity mixs with lots of people, its more dangerous than almost anything. Look at all the damage the nazis, neo-nazis, skinheads, KKK and other racist groups have made in just 100 years.

the Hollowcast History was Written by hollywood...and by the US media...


o, and 12 MILLION dead bodies....

Honest question: do you find the mass-murder by machete and shotgun that occurred in Rwanda less disturbing?

No, and what dicusts me is when we ignore Africa's many social and economic problems out of sheer ignorance, hate, fear and apathy.

Ever thought why the Jewish people has a all-to-themselves racial epithet-antisemitism-while all other races must make do with one single word-racism?

Ever thought why the Jewish people has a all-to-themselves racial epithet-antisemitism-while all other races must make do with one single word-racism?With the Help of Hollywood and the US media..The Jews have hick-jacked the term Anti-Semite and portrayed themselves as exclusive victims...but

...in reality Arabs are also Semites.

for example its perfectly accurate to say the IDF(Israel Bloody Army) is Anti-Semite.

It was violent, of course. 6 million dead. the chinese revolution killed 50 million. that's a little more isn't it? is it worse when a guy with a crooked nose dies than when an asian dies, is that it?

i hate to break it to you, but the holocaust killed 11 million. six million was only the jews, not including gypsies, cripples, gays, etc.




all of you shut up and read Night by elie Weisel

if you don't cry, you don't deserve to live

all of you shut up...I dont think so.

1: i haven't said this is my actal ideas. this is a thought/value experiment.
2: i know quite a few (and a little too well, i'm afraid) who say these things i've mentioned here, so it's representative of them at least
3: i don't give a shite if you others don't agree. if we agreed there would be no discussion, no thought even. thinking is important.
All I asked was a simple question. I don't give a shite about your not giving a shite. Mull that over.

Ever thought why the Jewish people has a all-to-themselves racial epithet-antisemitism-while all other races must make do with one single word-racism?
Because the Jew haters made that all-to-themselves racial epithet up. Check out the word origin.

Besides, such epithets are frequently being created when hatred for a certain group of people assumes the dimensions of a fully fledged ideology (as is the case with anti-Semitism). There are terms anti-Americanism and Islamophobia, for instance.

Oh and OceanDrive2 is a complete idiot, in case someone here did not yet discover this not so hidden truth.

This problem is because of borders. When the English (i think) colonized, they made tutus and hutsis forget the borders to their areas and now they're fighting for it.
ure right but it was the belgians.