NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering if its pretty much true that you can't do much with a history degree. Are the options limited? I'm going for one since it is all that really interests me but since teaching doesn't interest me much I was wondering what my choices could be.

I would like a history degree myself. If I'm understanding the term correctly, college stuff confuses me. I heard that you can even go to graduate school for law with a degree in history. Perhaps even medicine.

You won't be getting a vocational degree as much as a higher education. It is not as directly functional as, say, materials engineer, but you can still apply it to jobs that simpy require a BA. Plus jobs as researcher and things like that. Or get called by your buddy who's doing dramaturgy and needs some good sources on the 60's and college campus'...

You know, no published authors have ever had a history degree. No history degrees to the name of, ooh, say, almost every Prime Minister, and countless thousands of politicians. History, with its analytical skills and attention to detail, isn't at all prized by business, by law, by civil service. Yeah, you're fucked: go do something useful like media studies or theology.

Sorry. But history is a fantastically useful degree, precisely because it doesn't pin you down to one particular thing in the way that other courses do. Many, many careers will be open to you. (I also am about to get historical.)

A BS in history is pretty much useless. Advanced studies in various Museum occupations/historical administration/archeology are useful for field work or running/working at a museum or historical site.

I have my BS in History and almost have my Masters. After being fired from a historical site due to a conflict w/ the site manager, I've gone back into the electronics field (Navy training).

My Bro-in-law has a bs in History and works for the VA doing injury claims.

History is a major part of the government, as we must learn of the failures and successes of the past, and how they might be used to help us, or how we might prevent them.

Someone want to support or refute my claim that a history degree can be accepted for law school?

I was just wondering if its pretty much true that you can't do much with a history degree. Are the options limited? I'm going for one since it is all that really interests me but since teaching doesn't interest me much I was wondering what my choices could be.

History is one of those fields of study that don't actually teach you a skill that will advance your career or prepare you for a job. Basically, there's not a job out there that you're unqualified for now that having a degree in History will qualify you for. Think about that. I strongly recommend that before you commence a study of higher education, you figure out what kind of jobs it will train you for and what the likelihood of getting one of those jobs is.

You know, there's nothing wrong with taking a year off and working instead of being in college. Frankly, if you make a bad decision and study history, or pretty much any other of the soft-social sciences, you'll end up doing that kind of work anyway.

I was just wondering if its pretty much true that you can't do much with a history degree. Are the options limited? I'm going for one since it is all that really interests me but since teaching doesn't interest me much I was wondering what my choices could be.

maybe you can have an indiana jones type job.... you know, teaching history by day, killing nazis by night

You won't be getting a vocational degree as much as a higher education. It is not as directly functional as, say, materials engineer, but you can still apply it to jobs that simpy require a BA. Plus jobs as researcher and things like that. Or get called by your buddy who's doing dramaturgy and needs some good sources on the 60's and college campus'...

I was hoping that even if I do not use the "history" part, simply having a degree will be useful anyway. I do not want to go to graduate school so I hope that I'm not limiting myself to much.

Someone want to support or refute my claim that a history degree can be accepted for law school?

I am a lawyer. I just started my own practice, so I haven't built a client base and find myself with spurts of free time.

In the United States, you need to have a bachelor's degree to attend law school. History degrees are acceptable.

If your plan is to attend law school to become a lawyer, you could study History in undergrad (even though other fields of study would nonetheless be more useful to you in your eventual practice of law).

Still, a degree in history won't do a lot in the way of preparing you for the study of law. Don't get me wrong... there are certainly worse fields of undergraduate study to prepare you for law school.

I nonetheless recommend against getting a degree in History unless you're totally 100% passionate about it and plan to teach it. By passionate, I mean you would read your text books recreationally even if you weren't in school.

I got my BA in history and finished my MS in Multimedia Technology recently. I plan to get a job working in museums and designing things.

What you major in does not make you who you are though. Do not let people pressure you into thinking that what you choose now will be what you are stuck with for the rest of your life.

I had 4 years of people asking me if I was going to be a teacher and when I was going to get my teacher certif. - never. Do what you like, not what other people expect of you, or you will be unhappy.

- Nettie

maybe you can have an indiana jones type job.... you know, teaching history by day, killing nazis by night

Yeah, but he said he's not interested in teaching. Maybe he could just do the Nazi-killing at night part.

Any college degree is adeqate enough for quite a few jobs. They prefer you NOT think you already know the answers - just demonstrate an ability to find them. - college degree.

I got my BA in history and finished my MS in Multimedia Technology recently. I plan to get a job working in museums and designing things.

What you major in does not make you who you are though. Do not let people pressure you into thinking that what you choose now will be what you are stuck with for the rest of your life.

I had 4 years of people asking me if I was going to be a teacher and when I was going to get my teacher certif. - never. Do what you like, not what other people expect of you, or you will be unhappy.

- Nettie

That actually sounds like it may be a pretty good education combo. But I'm curious... you said you plan to get a job working in museums, etc. It sounds like you've finished your education. What is your career now?

Any college degree is adeqate enough for quite a few jobs. They prefer you NOT think you already know the answers - just demonstrate an ability to find them. - college degree.

I respectfully disagree. I also challenge you to list a few jobs for which any college degree is adequate (since there are so many).

I am a lawyer. I just started my own practice, so I haven't built a client base and find myself with spurts of free time.

In the United States, you need to have a bachelor's degree to attend law school. History degrees are acceptable.

If your plan is to attend law school to become a lawyer, you could study History in undergrad (even though other fields of study would nonetheless be more useful to you in your eventual practice of law).

Still, a degree in history won't do a lot in the way of preparing you for the study of law. Don't get me wrong... there are certainly worse fields of undergraduate study to prepare you for law school.

I nonetheless recommend against getting a degree in History unless you're totally 100% passionate about it and plan to teach it. By passionate, I mean you would read your text books recreationally even if you weren't in school.
I certainly do read my textbooks out of school. I do that with my Science (Life Science and Biology) textbooks and my U.S. History textbook. I can spend a good hour or two just reading ahead and reading up on history.

And I'm one of the few people that actually have a good grasp of history and understand it's usefulness in society, beyond the need to know the errors of the past to prevent them in the future (That's a little corny).

So what do you recommend if I want to go to law school to study as an undergrad?

Among my interests....(copied and pasted these from my search on collegeboard.com)

Airline - Commercial Pilot/Flight Crew ,
American Government/Politics , American History (U.S.) ,
Atomic/Molecular Physics ,
Business Administration/Management ,
Business/Managerial Economics ,
Drama/Theater Arts ,
Economics ,
English ,
Genetics
, German , International Economics ,
International Relations
, Journalism ,
Paralegal/Legal Assistance ,
Philosophy ,
Political Communications ,
Political Science/Government ,
Prelaw ,
Public Relations ,
Social Sciences - General , Sociology
, Spanish

History is a major part of the government, as we must learn of the failures and successes of the past, and how they might be used to help us, or how we might prevent them.

That, and $3.95 will get you a mocha-almond frappuccino.

I certainly do read my textbooks out of school. I do that with my Science (Life Science and Biology) textbooks and my U.S. History textbook. I can spend a good hour or two just reading ahead and reading up on history.

And I'm one of the few people that actually have a good grasp of history and understand it's usefulness in society, beyond the need to know the errors of the past to prevent them in the future (That's a little corny).

So what do you recommend if I want to go to law school to study as an undergrad?

I've been told Political Science is a good one.

Yeah, but he said he's not interested in teaching. Maybe he could just do the Nazi-killing at night part.

yeah, i suppose, but then it would just be a hobbie

You know, no published authors have ever had a history degree. No history degrees to the name of, ooh, say, almost every Prime Minister, and countless thousands of politicians. History, with its analytical skills and attention to detail, isn't at all prized by business, by law, by civil service. Yeah, you're fucked: go do something useful like media studies or theology.

Sorry. But history is a fantastically useful degree, precisely because it doesn't pin you down to one particular thing in the way that other courses do. Many, many careers will be open to you. (I also am about to get historical.)

But the question was what sort of jobs an undergraduate history degree will prepare you for. Since a history degree can open so many career options, perhaps you can name a few. No? hmmmm.....

Perhaps focusing on International Affairs could have more options to go with the history?

That, and $3.95 will get you a mocha-almond frappuccino.
Damn straight.

right now I am apply for jobs and taking a few summer art classes while working part time

I certainly do read my textbooks out of school. I do that with my Science (Life Science and Biology) textbooks and my U.S. History textbook. I can spend a good hour or two just reading ahead and reading up on history.

And I'm one of the few people that actually have a good grasp of history and understand it's usefulness in society, beyond the need to know the errors of the past to prevent them in the future (That's a little corny).

So what do you recommend if I want to go to law school to study as an undergrad?

Among my interests....(copied and pasted these from my search on collegeboard.com)

Airline - Commercial Pilot/Flight Crew ,
American Government/Politics , American History (U.S.) ,
Atomic/Molecular Physics ,
Business Administration/Management ,
Business/Managerial Economics ,
Drama/Theater Arts ,
Economics ,
English ,
Genetics
, German , International Economics ,
International Relations
, Journalism ,
Paralegal/Legal Assistance ,
Philosophy ,
Political Communications ,
Political Science/Government ,
Prelaw ,
Public Relations ,
Social Sciences - General , Sociology
, Spanish

I'm actually wondering why you're not interested in following up with an advanced degree in History then? You would probably be a really competent teacher, plus it would allow you to get paid to continue learning in the field. Are you sure it wouldn't be a good fit for you?

Perhaps focusing on International Affairs could have more options to go with the history?

That's not a bad idea.

I was just wondering if its pretty much true that you can't do much with a history degree. Are the options limited? I'm going for one since it is all that really interests me but since teaching doesn't interest me much I was wondering what my choices could be.

History graduates are actually among the most successful people to graduate from universities: examples include Gordon Brown MP, Prince Charles and I think some of the Monty Python team.

I do a history degree myself and am sure that I can do something with it afterwards. History after all may have few practical uses (except in maybe tourism); but it is a very important subject for it is about human behaviour. It is as much a fusion between economics, politics psychology, philosophy and military theory as a subject in itself.

It is one of those subjects which the Romans described as Studia Humanitatis; meaning a subject that makes one more or a better human and what subject could do more than that?

I'm actually wondering why you're not interested in following up with an advanced degree in History then? You would probably be a really competent teacher, plus it would allow you to get paid to continue learning in the field. Are you sure it wouldn't be a good fit for you?
I'm sorry. But I have noooooo clue what you mean by an advanced degree in History. Or how one would get one. Do you mean teaching credentials? I don't really know if I want to teach...

I've got a BA in history (only recently when they started calling it a "social science" has it become a BS... but it's about as much a science as basket-weaving). It's about as useful as any other liberal arts undergrad degree that's not specialized to a particular field (i.e. polisci, english, communications, etc.). Without anything more, it's just a piece or paper. But it can be used as an admission ticket because regardless of the liberal arts degree, you can always go to law school, continue on in almost any liberal arts field (i.e. i have a history degree, but could easilly go for a master's in polisci or english), and usually go to business school. As long as you take the proper entrance exam (LSAT, GMAT, GRE) they'll take pretty much any undergrad degree. Medical school, of course, requires a little specialization in undergrad.

And as for there being no published authors with a history degree... well, that's just plain false. Most professors at respected universities are published authors. In fact, at many, it is a requirement to be published if you want to make tenure. True, most people may not have heard of their books, but people in the field know them well, and they have publishers.

But the question was what sort of jobs an undergraduate history degree will prepare you for. Since a history degree can open so many career options, perhaps you can name a few. No? hmmmm.....

Don't. Just don't. You know damn well there are a million and one jobs history is an excellent preparation for. Journalist. Writer. Researcher. If you actually believe that history is not a good career preparation, then either you're not actually a lawyer (history's great for law, by the way, or at least 'tis in the UK), or you shouldn't be. Business person. Strategic planner. Economist.

I'm sorry. But I have noooooo clue what you mean by an advanced degree in History. Or how one would get one. Do you mean teaching credentials? I don't really know if I want to teach...

Advanced would mean MA or higher is some historical aspect.

I worked on a general MA in History w/a European focus and World secondary. There's also Historical Administration, Military and Society in History, andmany others to get a Masters Degree in.

History graduates are actually among the most successful people to graduate from universities: examples include Gordon Brown MP, Prince Charles and I think some of the Monty Python team.

I do a history degree myself and am sure that I can do something with it afterwards. History after all may have few practical uses (except in maybe tourism); but it is a very important subject for it is about human behaviour. It is as much a fusion between economics, politics psychology, philosophy and military theory as a subject in itself.

It is one of those subjects which the Romans described as Studia Humanitatis; meaning a subject that makes one more or a better human and what subject could do more than that?

I wouldn't dispute that History is an important field of study as part of a general education, but if you don't want to teach it, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot for training you in a skill. Again, have you actually been able to put it to use in your career? If you opened a newspaper, or went online or whatever looking for a job, what sort of positions would you be qualified for that you wouldn't otherwise be?

Advanced would mean MA or higher is some historical aspect.

I worked on a general MA in History w/a European focus and World secondary. There's also Historical Administration, Military and Society in History, andmany others to get a Masters Degree in.
Would you be able to get an MA as an undergrad?

Someone want to support or refute my claim that a history degree can be accepted for law school?

I goto law school... and my degree is in history.

As for a good one to take to get in, history is a normal one... as is english, polisci, and philosophy; engineering is required if you want to do patent law. But many schools now are emphasizing legal theory over "street" law, and part of that is seeing a lot of "law and" classes. In other words, you can take classes on law and economics, law and literature, law and history, etc. So really, almost anything can get you in to law school.

I'm actually wondering why you're not interested in following up with an advanced degree in History then? You would probably be a really competent teacher, plus it would allow you to get paid to continue learning in the field. Are you sure it wouldn't be a good fit for you?

The thing is that what I'm shooting for is a bit of a contradiction. Studying continuously bugs me which isn't good especially since the finishing touch on getting a degree in history is a 25 page research paper which really annoys me. That and I am not great at public speaking so teaching would be a problem. Everytime I have to present a topic in class it takes willpower not to start shaking. I'm really hoping that my future employer will simply see "College Graduate" and be happy.

No, they mean an MA as a second degree, after a BA.

I wouldn't dispute that History is an important field of study as part of a general education, but if you don't want to teach it, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot for training you in a skill. Again, have you actually been able to put it to use in your career? If you opened a newspaper, or went online or whatever looking for a job, what sort of positions would you be qualified for that you wouldn't otherwise be?

Thinking about something my boss mentioned to me, Historians are heavily trained in research methods. That could be good for Admin jobs.

Would you be able to get an MA as an undergrad?

No, you normally have to get your BA first (hence undergrad). MA studies are considered graduate level.

I wouldn't dispute that History is an important field of study as part of a general education, but if you don't want to teach it, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot for training you in a skill. Again, have you actually been able to put it to use in your career? If you opened a newspaper, or went online or whatever looking for a job, what sort of positions would you be qualified for that you wouldn't otherwise be?

With the exception of engineering, which often hires directly from undergrad, very few undergrad degrees are useful right off the bat. English, polisci, econ, math... if you really want to find a good job with a liberal arts degree, it's extremely helpful to obtain at least a masters... and not even in the field you got a BA in. It's entirely possible to get an undergrad degree in one field and then a masters in something completely different. An undergrad degree is pretty much an admission ticket to higher learning.

If you want to "open a newspaper" and look for a job that you wouldn't otherwise be qualified for, may i suggest trade school? The world always needs plumbers and electricians.

I wouldn't dispute that History is an important field of study as part of a general education, but if you don't want to teach it, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot for training you in a skill. Again, have you actually been able to put it to use in your career? If you opened a newspaper, or went online or whatever looking for a job, what sort of positions would you be qualified for that you wouldn't otherwise be?
Research skills, analytical skills, writing skills...there's loads.

I consider myself an historian and a philosopher, and I'm aiming for a doctorate in history; they please me the most and to me are the most important topics that any human can study. Hence I will pursue them without any thought as to what money they may make for me -- they will make me happy. Teaching and field research are only two of many possibilities open to you, but I'll get there when I get there; right now I'll become fluent in what seems most important to me and worry about things like paying jobs in the future....

History is a rather useless degree. Despite what others have claimed here, no one has yet been able to produce any advertisement for a job opening that a history major qualifies for and a college dropout wouldnt. If you dont plan on teaching or going into law school, then I suggest you get a double major and pair your history up with something practical.

Oh, there is one more thing it does help you with. If you are interested in a military career a history degree will help you enter the military as an officer (which in civilian terms means you are a manager rather than a regular employee). If you live in the US, then the best way to do this is to join the ROTC while you are in college.

No, you normally have to get your BA first (hence undergrad). MA studies are considered graduate level.
Oooooh...so, there are schools for graduate studies BEYOND Law and Medicine?

Don't. Just don't. You know damn well there are a million and one jobs history is an excellent preparation for. Journalist. Writer. Researcher. If you actually believe that history is not a good career preparation, then either you're not actually a lawyer (history's great for law, by the way, or at least 'tis in the UK), or you shouldn't be. Business person. Strategic planner. Economist.

Maybe it works differently in the U.K. Over here in the U.S., news print organizations hire journalists--people with journalism degrees, who have had practice having things published in daily or weekly journals. A history major would be considered unqualified.

Writers--you're definitely correct in that a degree in history could make you a better writer. I conceed on that point. But for a handful of famous writers, I personally don't know anyone who has made a living at it, but whatever.

Researchers--I could conceed that it could prepare you for a career in research. But I first challenge you to find (and you may be able to), anywhere in the world, a job posting for a researcher where the prospective employer prefers someone with a degree in History.

Business person--you mean a small business owner? I respectfully disagree. I can't see how getting a History degree would give you any advantage over anyone else in any other course of study, or anyone not in school working in industry.

Strategic planner--I respectfully disagree.

Economist--I disagree. Prior to attending law school, I worked as an Economist. None of the principles or knowledge that I had to use on a daily basis would be otherwise learned in the pursuit of a History degree.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you're so defensive about this. What do you do for a living? I suspect that you're currently studying History and in denial about it's applicablity... and we've hit a nerve. I don't know exactly what your problem is, but don't drag this guy down with you.

History is a rather useless degree. Despite what others have claimed here, no one has yet been able to produce any advertisement for a job opening that a history major qualifies for and a college dropout wouldnt. If you dont plan on teaching or going into law school, then I suggest you get a double major and pair your history up with something practical.

Oh, there is one more thing it does help you with. If you are interested in a military career a history degree will help you enter the military as an officer (which in civilian terms means you are a manager rather than a regular employee). If you live in the US, then the best way to do this is to join the ROTC while you are in college.

That's actually a great point. Here in the U.S., it would allow you to enter into the military as an officer.

History is a rather useless degree. Despite what others have claimed here, no one has yet been able to produce any advertisement for a job opening that a history major qualifies for and a college dropout wouldnt.
No, pretty much no job will ask straight out for a History degree, but having one will give you an advantage in most jobs over somebody with, say, a Media Studies degree.

With the exception of engineering, which often hires directly from undergrad, very few undergrad degrees are useful right off the bat. English, polisci, econ, math... if you really want to find a good job with a liberal arts degree, it's extremely helpful to obtain at least a masters... and not even in the field you got a BA in. It's entirely possible to get an undergrad degree in one field and then a masters in something completely different. An undergrad degree is pretty much an admission ticket to higher learning.

If you want to "open a newspaper" and look for a job that you wouldn't otherwise be qualified for, may i suggest trade school? The world always needs plumbers and electricians.

plumbers and engineers pay pretty darn well... at least here in the U.S. they're not the most glorious professions, but the money is good.

I got my undergrad in Economics and worked as an Economist when I finished. The work was good, the pay was good, I was doing useful work. I could have stayed that path, but decided that I would enjoy the study of law more. In fairness, I think that I'm the exception, though... a lot of my classmates from undergrad entered into fields unrelated to economics.

No, pretty much no job will ask straight out for a History degree, but having one will give you an advantage in most jobs over somebody with, say, a Media Studies degree.

Like what? Provide an example.

Research skills, analytical skills, writing skills...there's loads.


Those aren't really jobs. "What do you do for a living?" "I'm a writing skills".

No, pretty much no job will ask straight out for a History degree, but having one will give you an advantage in most jobs over somebody with, say, a Media Studies degree.

I really was hoping that simply having a degree in SOMETHING would be a plus. the college education would give you a better chance in getting better employment than a simple high school diploma.

The thing is that what I'm shooting for is a bit of a contradiction. Studying continuously bugs me which isn't good especially since the finishing touch on getting a degree in history is a 25 page research paper which really annoys me. That and I am not great at public speaking so teaching would be a problem. Everytime I have to present a topic in class it takes willpower not to start shaking. I'm really hoping that my future employer will simply see "College Graduate" and be happy.

Maybe the more relevant question for everyone here is "what career would you like?" First figure out what you want to do, then figure out what it takes to get there. Pretty radical, eh? :)

I got mine (dualed it with English Lit) in 1995. Today I'm a network engineer for a Fortune 10 company and going for my Master's.

The degree has served me well, at least as a techie. It teaches you things you never learn in an engineering discipline, and gives you useful skills like categorization, process flow and research that others often lack. Also, I'm the guy on the team that can translate tech to layman, and write up all communications/briefs. (I admit that I also hold an MCSE, CCNA, CISSP and various other certifications).

Having that BA really forwarded my career -- it set me apart from the other "tech guys". From my time (6+ years) at this firm, everything I've seen bears this out: if you're going to advance up the corporate ladder, you need a degree. They don't care what it is, so long as you have the skills and they like you. :)

Right now, the Masters is my goal, as it seems to be a prerequisite to project management...

I really was hoping that simply having a degree in SOMETHING would be a plus. the college education would give you a better chance in getting better employment than a simple high school diploma.

There's no question that it's better for your long-term career than sitting around and smoking pot for 4 years. But I think that entering the labor force directly after high school is severely underrated. You can advance your career pretty far in four years, and you don't have any educational debt to worry about.

I got mine (dualed it with English Lit) in 1995. Today I'm a network engineer for a Fortune 10 company and going for my Master's.

The degree has served me well, at least as a techie. It teaches you things you never learn in an engineering discipline, and gives you useful skills like categorization, process flow and research that others often lack. Also, I'm the guy on the team that can translate tech to layman, and write up all communications/briefs. (I admit that I also hold an MCSE, CCNA, CISSP and various other certifications).

Having that BA really forwarded my career -- it set me apart from the other "tech guys". From my time (6+ years) at this firm, everything I've seen bears this out: if you're going to advance up the corporate ladder, you need a degree. They don't care what it is, so long as you have the skills and they like you. :)

Right now, the Masters is my goal, as it seems to be a prerequisite to project management...

unusual (in a good way) anacdote.

Like what? Provide an example.
It's a generally accepted rule of...whatever you would call one degree being an advantage over another.

It shows you can undertake alot of research, critically analyse documents, understand links between supposedly unrelated events, and can write well on a subject.

Maybe the more relevant question for everyone here is "what career would you like?" First figure out what you want to do, then figure out what it takes to get there. Pretty radical, eh? :)
Yea, but I don't know what career I would like. So I did a subject at University I enjoy and am interested in. History.

I was just wondering if its pretty much true that you can't do much with a history degree. Are the options limited? I'm going for one since it is all that really interests me but since teaching doesn't interest me much I was wondering what my choices could be.

When you do a extra year of international politics, the doors of a lot of int.institutions can open wide for you. Clingendael for example.

There's no question that it's better for your long-term career than sitting around and smoking pot for 4 years. But I think that entering the labor force directly after high school is severely underrated. You can advance your career pretty far in four years, and you don't have any educational debt to worry about.

That depends heavily on the career you want. In a technical field you may be far better off getting a few certifications then finding a job with a company that will pay for you to earn your degree (most major companies will). In other fields having a degree is a necessity.

However, there is more to college than just preparing you for life. College is also an experience unto it's self. I wouldnt recommend anyone to skip college. While skipping college may be more practical, you'd be missing out on a major life experience. Like Chef from South Park says "there's a time and a place for everything, and it's called college".

I suppose if your college options are all community colleges near your home, then it really wouldnt make much difference. But there is a great deal to be said for moving away from home and going to live in a new place with people your age from all over the world with all manner of different backgrounds, religions, points of view, cultures, etc. I think if you have that opportunity, it is better not to pass it up, you will always have time for work later.

Ok, in my recklessness, I actually conducted a brief online search for history jobs. The link below seems to be the best compliation of jobs available. I think that it speaks for itself.

http://www.oah.org/announce/jobs.html

Maybe it works differently in the U.K. Over here in the U.S., news print organizations hire journalists--people with journalism degrees, who have had practice having things published in daily or weekly journals. A history major would be considered unqualified.

In the UK, journalism majors are considered a joke, and really not worth studying. The vast majority of front-line journalists will have backgrounds in economics, politics, philosophy, English, languages, sciences, history, classics...traditional degrees.

Writers--you're definitely correct in that a degree in history could make you a better writer. I conceed on that point. But for a handful of famous writers, I personally don't know anyone who has made a living at it, but whatever.

You know some famous writers? I'm envious. But as you also agree, there is a possibility. Now, I don't know this guy, but it could be he is a good writer. In which case, great, study whatever he wants, but history is certainly not the worst preparation.

Researchers--I could conceed that it could prepare you for a career in research. But I first challenge you to find (and you may be able to), anywhere in the world, a job posting for a researcher where the prospective employer prefers someone with a degree in History.

Ok, well challenge met. Now what? Research is the very fundament of a history degree.

Business person--you mean a small business owner? I respectfully disagree. I can't see how getting a History degree would give you any advantage over anyone else in any other course of study, or anyone not in school working in industry.

I meant business in general. But, ok, as a small business owner, it's all about factors, factors, factors. And, in the wider sense, history is an excellent discipline for coming to appreciate the interconnectedness of things - in a way that economics isn't.

Strategic planner--I respectfully disagree.

Why? Don't you think the ability to research, to look at the wider implications, to take into account a range of factors, are all useful to a developer?

Economist--I disagree. Prior to attending law school, I worked as an Economist. None of the principles or knowledge that I had to use on a daily basis would be otherwise learned in the pursuit of a History degree.

Ah. I'm not talking about specific knowledge. Knowing when the Battle of Hastings was is unlikely to help any jobs save history teacher and professional quizzer. But in terms of skills and approaches, the historical approach - examining the validity of a range of sources to correlate to an overall view - will always be useful. Besides, history incorporates so much economic theory.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you're so defensive about this. What do you do for a living? I suspect that you're currently studying History and in denial about it's applicablity... and we've hit a nerve. I don't know exactly what your problem is, but don't drag this guy down with you.

Finally, isn't this meant to be about Utracia? Who gives a fuck what I do? My 'problem' is that he asked whether he should do history or not, and I pitched in with my opinion.

Ok, in my recklessness, I actually conducted a brief online search for history jobs. The link below seems to be the best compliation of jobs available. I think that it speaks for itself.

http://www.oah.org/announce/jobs.html
As has already been pointed out, there are very few jobs that specifically ask for a History degree, but many jobs where having a History degree is to your distinct advantage.

That depends heavily on the career you want. In a technical field you may be far better off getting a few certifications then finding a job with a company that will pay for you to earn your degree (most major companies will). In other fields having a degree is a necessity.

However, there is more to college than just preparing you for life. College is also an experience unto it's self. I wouldnt recommend anyone to skip college. While skipping college may be more practical, you'd be missing out on a major life experience. Like Chef from South Park says "there's a time and a place for everything, and it's called college".


I'm not sure that Chef's quote reinforces your point :)

Anyway, I don't have any question that college is right for some people, but I wholeheartedly disagree that it's right for everyone. The number of people who attend University, get a degree in something utterly useless, then end up waiting tables at ihop because there aren't any career openings in "gender studies" or whatever is an embarassment.

You're right that college is an experience unto itself, but for people with long-term career objectives who major in something that they can't get a job in, the experience is a waste of time. Besides, as you may or may have found out already, working can be a wonderful experience that college will delay.

My son has a history degree, is working in project management and enjoying it. He knew not expect immediate employment in the field. He had no idea what he wanted to do, so a history degree was as good as any. Made sense, since the subject was a life-long interest of his, and you always do better at something you enjoy.

His best friend has a history degree and is commanding a tank platoon in Iraq. He, too, expects to find work outside the field of history and teaching when he gets out.

In the UK, journalism majors are considered a joke, and really not worth studying. The vast majority of front-line journalists will have backgrounds in economics, politics, philosophy, English, languages, sciences, history, classics...traditional degrees.

ok.

[QUOTE]You know some famous writers? I'm envious. But as you also agree, there is a possibility. Now, I don't know this guy, but it could be he is a good writer. In which case, great, study whatever he wants, but history is certainly not the worst preparation.

That was a typo. I meant to say but for a few famous writers that I know of... not that I know. Big difference. Regardless, my point was that the odds aren't good.


Ok, well challenge met. Now what? Research is the very fundament of a history degree.

ok.

I meant business in general. But, ok, as a small business owner, it's all about factors, factors, factors.

ok

And, in the wider sense, history is an excellent discipline for coming to appreciate the interconnectedness of things - in a way that economics isn't.

I respectfully disagree.

Why? Don't you think the ability to research, to look at the wider implications, to take into account a range of factors, are all useful to a developer?

I can see your point here. I'm tempted to retract my previous statement.


Ah. I'm not talking about specific knowledge. Knowing when the Battle of Hastings was is unlikely to help any jobs save history teacher and professional quizzer. But in terms of skills and approaches, the historical approach - examining the validity of a range of sources to correlate to an overall view - will always be useful. Besides, history incorporates so much economic theory.

Again, there could be a difference between the way history is taught in the UK and in the US. The fields of Economics and Political Science use to be the same in the US, for example, before they took totally separate paths. Over here, there is no blending of economics into history whatsoever.



Finally, isn't this meant to be about Utracia?]

Since you first started taking swipes at my professional competency, it's too late to start playing the "this isn't about us" card.

Who gives a fuck what I do?

In other words, I nailed it right on the head :)

My 'problem' is that he asked whether he should do history or not, and I pitched in with my opinion.

That still doesn't explain the attitude. :p

My son has a history degree, is working in project management and enjoying it. He knew not expect immediate employment in the field. He had no idea what he wanted to do, so a history degree was as good as any. Made sense, since the subject was a life-long interest of his, and you always do better at something you enjoy.

His best friend has a history degree and is commanding a tank platoon in Iraq. He, too, expects to find work outside the field of history and teaching when he gets out.

That sounds pretty good.

I got my B.A. in history, with a double major in political science, in 1976 and I've never had a problem finding work. Of course, I never did anything connected to history either. Originally, I wanted to teach but student teaching in a public school cured me of that. After 16 straight years of school, I wasn't interested in the graduate work required to teach college level. I also thought about law school, but came to my senses.

I've been in business for 29 years. I was in retail distribution first, then moved to the energy industry. I did go back and take advantage of employer funded education benefits to get 27 hours of accounting.

I believe that my liberal arts provided me with the writing and analytical skills to get a good start in the business world. I've done well for myself and my family.

My nephew recently received his degree in history, coutesy of the U.S Army. He'll be retiring soon and his ambition is to teach college-level ROTC.

A liberal arts degree can be used for just about anything that requires a college diploma, except specialized technical or engineering jobs. It's a lot better than no degree, as long as your flexible and keep an open mind. The world is always looking for teachers, although to me it would be a last resort given the sorry state of American public schools.

That's been my experience. Good luck!

You say there's no fusion of history with economics in the US. At those institutions for which that's true (because it's not so for Harvard, Yale, UCLA, Brown, NYU, or Notre Dame - I don't know about any others), what the fuck do they teach? It's impossible to separate history from economics.

You say there's no fusion of history with economics in the US. At those institutions for which that's true (because it's not so for Harvard, Yale, UCLA, Brown, NYU, or Notre Dame - I don't know about any others), what the fuck do they teach? It's impossible to separate history from economics.

How many and which classes are required there? I don't think my son had but a few during his history program. I had several economics classes in college, but that didn't make me an economist. Sounds boring anyway...

You say there's no fusion of history with economics in the US. At those institutions for which that's true (because it's not so for Harvard, Yale, UCLA, Brown, NYU, or Notre Dame - I don't know about any others), what the fuck do they teach? It's impossible to separate history from economics.

I looked at the History curriculum for Harvard, but I don't have the inclination to for the others. Two observations:

1. You can complete an undergraduate education in the field of History at Harvard University without taking a single course that even remotely has to do with economics.

2. Of the 4 or five courses that compose part of the History curriculum that do touch on history, however so briefly, only one has it's emphasis on economics, and it does not pertain at all to economic theory. Studying the history of economics is not the same as studying the mechanics of economics.

It's probably not your fault, though. I'm sure they've brainwashed you into thinking that the study of history pervades every field of study, and every aspect of life, and that's why it's so useful and so practical, and oh my goodness it's all so wonderful. Nonetheless, in my study of economics, I took one elective course in the History of Economics that was interesting, but the main function was to demonstrate to me how ridiculously wrong educated people can be about how the market forces work. The other courses, as are typical in every other economics curriculum, were entirely theory and application based. It would have been a waste of our time learning about Martin von Whosit and what he did in 1684, becuase that wouldn't train us in economic thought.

Anyway, Utracia, all of that is a little besides the point. Do what you want - and in my opinion, if you don't know what you want, history is good, because of its breadth. That said, if you end up being miserable at college, please don't sue me (or if you do, at least hire Brians Test). I don't think, ultimately, we're the people to listen to: you need to talk to teachers, parents, friends, and people that understand you better than we can from a forum thread. I think history's great, but that doesn't mean it'll be for everyone: I would though reassure you that should you study it, I'm sure finding employment won't be an issue, anymore so (and hopefully less so) than with any other degree.

So I can guess that you can separate economics from history, but I know for sure you can separate history from economics.

History is the study of the past. It encompasses every dimension of human interaction—social life, the economy, culture, thought and politics.

Anyway, how do you 'separate history from economics'. Let's take...any example, really. Let's say you're studying the economic feasiblity of a flat-tax scheme - that's your badger, right? How could you possibly approach that with any sort of economic validity without considering the historical context of such a move, without evaluating past attempts, without fully understanding the origins of income tax and graduated tax, without analysing and evaluating documents? I genuinely don't understand.

And who's brainwashed me?

I would like to offer the observation that one can receive a practical education (or traing, if you prefer), and still pursue a personal educational interest. It's up to you.

I graduated with my BS and a minor in German Literature, an interest of mine. Dual degrees are possible too, if you want to do the work, as several posters here have done.

You say there's no fusion of history with economics in the US. At those institutions for which that's true (because it's not so for Harvard, Yale, UCLA, Brown, NYU, or Notre Dame - I don't know about any others), what the fuck do they teach? It's impossible to separate history from economics.

Oh, and to be a little more specific, of Harvards 200 or so history courses, two history courses have cross-courses (meaning, they're not actually part of the history curriculum), one course discusses, in minor part, the relationship between religion and economics during the American Revolution, and the BIG one is the one unit course titled "Economic History Workshop", which really doesn't meet or involve teaching, but is a credit students can get if their dissertation happens to do with the history of economies. Forgive me, but even if someone took all of these courses (and remember that none of them are requisite), they're still not learning an ounce of economic theory or application.

I guess your history degree hasn't quite honed all those research skills you're suppose to be learning yet. Don't worry... you'll get better with time.

I genuinely don't understand.

Correct.

I guess your history degree hasn't quite honed all those research skills you're suppose to be learning yet. Don't worry... you'll get better with time.

Um...thanks. I don't have a history degree or anything like that (although I think I took the same AP Arrogance course as you).

Anyway, I simply don't understand how you can read the course descriptions, or look at the reading lists, and continue to deny the massive involvement of economics in every aspect of every history course. But, then, I think we're just talking at cross purposes. For me, any history without economic history isn't academic: it's telling children's stories. But, if you don't see it that way, I sincerely doubt there'll be anything I could possibly say to persuade you. None of which is especially helping Utracia.

[QUOTE=Gruenberg]Um...thanks. I don't have a history degree or anything like that (although I think I took the same AP Arrogance course as you).[QUOTE]

lol

Ok, that was genuinely funny. :) I get pretty confrontational when challenged--all part of why my job is a good fit for my personality.

Most gracious. I was getting a little wound up myself. And now Utracia is gone.

Someone want to support or refute my claim that a history degree can be accepted for law school?

It's accurate, a lot of people planning to go on to law school major in history.

I'm double-majoring in Poli Sci and International Studies, so I'm in kind of the same boat as the history majors.

I was just wondering if its pretty much true that you can't do much with a history degree. Are the options limited? I'm going for one since it is all that really interests me but since teaching doesn't interest me much I was wondering what my choices could be.
I was considering majoring in history as I find it really intriguing, but I came to the same rationalizaion; what the hell can you do with a degree in history? Teaching in grade school or being a college professor seemed mildly interesting to me, being a museum guide, or archivist wasn't interesting at all. I also really enjoy writing, so I settled down to Journalism as it combines history and writing and I could see myself being a journalist. I am still going to major in History as the college I am planning to go to only offers journalism as a minor. So if you like writing, do what I'll probably do!

I found this to be quite useful:
http://www.collegeboard.com/csearch/majors_careers/profiles/

There are also similar pages on various college websites, some are better, but I don't feel like going back to try to dig them up. :p Anyway, I hope that helps!

Many History degree graduates often go on to law school as the two have much in common. In addition any college worth its salt is using your major as an engine for teaching you far more important habbits of mind (to steal a Dewey line) not just the subject itself. One of the funny things I learned in my physics class this year is that many banks and brokerage firms will hire one w/ a physics degree over one w/ a econ or math degree b/c of how useful physics related skills and thinking strategies are.

You gotta love search engines -

http://money.cnn.com/2000/08/11/career/q_degreehistory/

Seems there's a hell of a lot you can do with a History degree, both near and far from the field itself.

You gotta love search engines -

http://money.cnn.com/2000/08/11/career/q_degreehistory/

Seems there's a hell of a lot you can do with a History degree, both near and far from the field itself.

Now that site I like! It's good to know that you can't say a history degree is worthless.

Question: What's the best degree to get if you want to go on to law school (pre-law is not an answer. Pre-law is not a degree. Ew)?

I was thinking about either majoring in economics (yeah, useless) or in a field in biology, not quite sure yet, either ecology (population dynamics and that jazz) or some form of engineering with biology. Something like that :D.

Question: What's the best degree to get if you want to go on to law school (pre-law is not an answer. Pre-law is not a degree. Ew)?

I was thinking about either majoring in economics (yeah, useless) or in a field in biology, not quite sure yet, either ecology (population dynamics and that jazz) or some form of engineering with biology. Something like that :D.

I'm pretty sure some ideas are posted earlier. Not sure myself though.

Oooooh...so, there are schools for graduate studies BEYOND Law and Medicine?
Yes, they're called Doctorates. PhDs. Case Western Reserve is one, that's wher my father got his masters and his PhD in chemical engineering (don't ask me the real title...)