NationStates Jolt Archive

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:
[ applauds wildly ] :)

thanx for the support i am really sickened by my generation little moral standard antisocial thus everywher and they all seem to be so lazy.

A problem I can see, and I'm not disagreeing with the concept, is that there isn't much service time in relation to training time.

It's expensive to train, need to put that to use - will need more than a year of service. There are however some alternatives to purely miltary service that could be considered, but I'm not sure that variations of mandatory public service will be politically acceptable.

Well I'am for a year of compulsory community work, so young people learn to have more respect towards elder people. I would do so happily.
I am 18 btw.
But as you may notice I'am not for making any of these things a must, simply because it will not help/improve anything... your suggestion would only lower the morale.
I live in Germany and we have this thing... atm I'm hopeng to find a way around out so I don't have to serve the army, as I'am neither patriot nor would I physically fit in ^^

A problem I can see, and I'm not disagreeing with the concept, is that there isn't much service time in relation to training time.

It's expensive to train, need to put that to use - will need more than a year of service. There are however some alternatives to purely miltary service that could be considered, but I'm not sure that variations of mandatory public service will be politically acceptable.
Well who says the training isn't put into use?

Crime rates just might drop. People just might take the initiative to study harder and work for a better life, education in the country increases, more kids look toward scientific fields of careers, the nation develops quicker and faster...

...It could start a chain of events for the better. Provided the right kind of stuff is taught, of course.

you make vaild points but i believe moral would be good when people understand that they're becoming better people, and it would help towards a fitter healthier nation. :)

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:
It is overall a good idea. I just would not like it, I am young and responsible and all of that but I just do not want to waste a year in the service when I could go to college and spend the extra year getting more money or getting my life together. I do not want to sound unpatriotic or anything I just want my time to pursue my goals and sort of wonder if the service would cut into that.

I believe a minimum 2 years of service should be mandatory. Service, I my belief, should be in the military, community service, or Aid groups (Like the Red cross).

yes lets have the federal government pay for a kind of "finishing" school for our 18 year olds. we have nothing better to spend our tax money on.

I image it would be incredibly expensive to have such mandatory public service programs.

Only a year? I'm pretty sure that basic training takes a few months.

What about people who are not physically able for military service?

Only a year? I'm pretty sure that basic training takes a few months.
U.S. Air Force Academy asks for 5 weeks of Basic Training.

It would be massively unfair for people who were responsible during their youth and are planning to go on to college; that year of service would make them delay college and make them less competitive in the workforce than others who got their degree a year earlier. Plus, it would cost money.

U.S. Air Force Academy asks for 5 weeks of Basic Training.
Army Basic Training is 9 weeks, follwed by Advanced Individualized Training that varys from 5 weeks up to almost two years.

It would be massively unfair for people who were responsible during their youth and are planning to go on to college; that year of service would make them delay college and make them less competitive in the workforce than others who got their degree a year earlier. Plus, it would cost money.
I found that having been through military training generated a maturity and self-discipline that employers highly valued.

It would be massively unfair for people who were responsible during their youth and are planning to go on to college; that year of service would make them delay college and make them less competitive in the workforce than others who got their degree a year earlier. Plus, it would cost money.
Oh yeah...damn.

How about throwing suicidal people and murders in the military? They'd make the perfect soldiers.

It would be massively unfair for people who were responsible during their youth and are planning to go on to college; that year of service would make them delay college and make them less competitive in the workforce than others who got their degree a year earlier. Plus, it would cost money.
A. Everyone would be delayed the same time, so they would not be behind thier peers.
B. It would pour lots of money into the communities and would not cost much.

U.S. Air Force Academy asks for 5 weeks of Basic Training.

I know my sister in the Air Force had training for longer than that, or maybe I'm forgetting to exclude her job training.

How about throwing suicidal people and murders in the military? They'd make the perfect soldiers.
So what unit are you in, Sailor?

So what unit are you in, Sailor?

What?

I found that having been through military training generated a maturity and self-discipline that employers highly valued.

I suppose, but it's still costing me a year's worth of salary upon graduation.

I'm going into the military to pay for my university.

I suppose, but it's still costing me a year's worth of salary upon graduation.

You do get paid in the military.

A. Everyone would be delayed the same time, so they would not be behind thier peers.
B. It would pour lots of money into the communities and would not cost much.

But there would be the cost of training, equipment, and supporting the soliders. The US has 2,143,873 men (not even women included) reaching age 18 annually. At $1000 per year in cost, that's 2.3 billion, at $10,000 per year 21.3 billion, and so on. It would require a considerable amount in new taxes and swell the US bureaucracy even further. It would be another tentacle of Big Government.

You do get paid in the military.

Not as much as I would in the private sector.

You do get paid in the military.
Yes, but some college educated jobs pay more. The average starting business degree salary is 40,000 and the average starting engineering salary is 50,000. The amount that the military would pay would not be that much I would not think.

It'd be more reasonable that if there is going to be compulsory military service, it not be at a certain age. Having an age range would be better. For example, you must serve at least one year in the military between the ages of eighteen and thirty five.

It just destroys individual personality.

What about people who are not physically able for military service?

Um, they'd be excempt? If they had proper medical reasons, that is.

Finland has a compulsory military service for all men, and it takes from 6 to 12 months. You can also take care of it by doing 13 months of community service, or 6 months in jail. The jail time earns you no mark on your criminal record though.

I think Finland needs the compulsory military service to give a credible defensive capability, but if its only purpose was to be a sort of 'rite of passage' or a school of proper manners, then I would be strongly against it.

And me? I went to the military last July, came back home eight days later. I was in awful physical condition, so they gave me a few years to get in shape. I'm a nerd and can't help that, but the experience did give me a bit of motivation to actually start exercising. Well, at least I'll get to go to university a year before I was planning to.

It'd be more reasonable that if there is going to be compulsory military service, it not be at a certain age. Having an age range would be better. For example, you must serve at least one year in the military between the ages of eighteen and thirty five.

But what are the effects of it on quality? Being forced to do something that you don't want to do is never good for the quality or morale of the group you're forced in to; keeping it voluntary will ensure the military is at its best.

yea but going to collage woulnt train you to shoot properly at an intruder or survive in the wilderness and it sure aint going to put food on the table :eek: :sniper:

I've considered going into the military when I'm older, but then I remembered I have back problems. It is unlikely I'd ever be in good enough physical condition.

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:
You have fun with that.

yea but going to collage woulnt train you to shoot properly at an intruder or survive in the wilderness and it sure aint going to put food on the table :eek: :sniper:
Err..going to college won't put food on the table? Nowadays not going to college won't put food on the table...

But what are the effects of it on quality? Being forced to do something that you don't want to do is never good for the quality or morale of the group you're forced in to; keeping it voluntary will ensure the military is at its best.

You just assumed that I am for compulsory military service. I am NOT for compulsory military service. Notice that I said if there is going to be compulsory military service. I was pointing out that if there is going to be mandatory military service, it would be more sensible for there to be a range of ages instead of one age at which one must serve in the military.

Eh, your misinterpretation of my statement is understandable.

You just assumed that I am for compulsory military service. I am NOT for compulsory military service. Notice that I said if there is going to be compulsory military service. I was pointing out that if there is going to be mandatory military service, it would be more sensible for there to be a range of ages instead of one age at which one must serve in the military.

It wasn't really directed at you, but it reminded me of that question, so I said it in response to your idea. :)

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:

Okay, you happily volunteer, then. More power to you. Just don't expect anyone else to happily be forced.

Honestly, why would anyone want soldiers fighting in the military who don't want to be there? Many wouldn't put forth much, if any effort; others would openly rebel. How on earth would this create a cohesive fighting force?

Okay, you happily volunteer, then. More power to you. Just don't expect anyone else to happily be forced.

Personaly I would consider forced service grounds for armed revolution.

Isn't this more of a neccessity thing anyway? Isreal has it since their surrounded by hostile people. We are supposivly living in a free nation so forcing people into the military isn't the way to go. If people want change then children's parents should be more responsible and actually parent.

Okay, you happily volunteer, then. More power to you. Just don't expect anyone else to happily be forced.

Honestly, why would anyone want soldiers fighting in the military who don't want to be there? Many wouldn't put forth much, if any effort; others would openly rebel. How on earth would this create a cohesive fighting force?
Open rebellion in the army is not something that they will take lightly. I think that the military service thing could solve some of our youth's problems but it would hurt the responsible young people by pushing back their college educations and their lives.

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:

I'll play the devil's advocate. though I see value in what you propose. Your reactions to the following?

This is incredibly expensive training, as a previous poster mentioned. We can't afford it.

Is the objective to train soldiers in military specialties, in which case we should be asking the Pentagon whether they need them and can afford the necessary equipment? Or is it to give young people a sense of discipline and pride (or other social values you care to name)?

If the primary purpose is the latter, should we be talking some other kind of boot camp, maybe using a military model, but whose purpose is to place people in public service other than military? The CCC of the 1930's comes to mind as a example. Still very expensive since salaries must be paid.

Does the government have the legal right to do the latter?

Open rebellion in the army is not something that they will take lightly. I think that the military service thing could solve some of our youth's problems but it would hurt the responsible young people by pushing back their college educations and their lives.
Which problems are those?

Which problems are those?

Drugs, drug dealing, theft, gang related crimes, rape, assult, being lazy fatasses. etc.

Drugs, drug dealing, theft, gang related crimes, rape, assult, being lazy fatasses. etc.
Which isn't any greater in our generation then in any other.

Which problems are those?
The problems that the original poster was trying to solve with his idea. Youth are not as responsible or tough as they should be. I was not introducing a new idea of problems only agreeing what someone else said.

Which isn't any greater in our generation then in any other.
So society has been this screwed up for a long time? Wow, maybe I should support the idea despite how much it would hurt me.

There are a few problems. (1)It would be REALLY expensive to do that. Training costs a lot of money. Period. Our country is already in a lot of debt - into the trillions. (2)It doesn't take the military to teach discipline. It takes good parenting. Everybody complains about the youth in America being lazy and crude and so on. The military wouldn't necessarily solve that. It COULD, but then again, it could also make it worse. (3)Complaints about civil liberties are not whimpy-they're valid. Civil liberties and human rights are what make this country so great. Thousands upon thousands of people have fought for years to help secure those rights and that should not be overlooked. (4) Crime rates wouldn't necessarily drop. Think about it--with this plan, you're creating millions of little trained killers. Crimerates could skyrocket. (5) The kid from Germany is right - if we made military service mandatory, morale would drop and teens would become resentful toward the government. That would all snowball into possible anarchy. (6) There are a lot of people who wouldn't be able server because of physical limitations or religious beliefs. So what then? You make acceptions for those people. Bend a little. Before long, there are going to be so many people with "special circumstances" trying to dodge it and your plan goes down the hole anyway. (7) What about those of us who are already respectful and disciplined and hard-working. We want to start our own lives, go to college, and pursue our goals. So now we have this huge, mandatory road block in our way? That sucks.

I'm not saying that military service is crap. Almost everyone in my family has served in the military. I grew up on bases around the world and have a lot of respect for our servicemen and women. The reason why we have such a great military in the US, though, is because those people are there because they WANT to be - not because they were required to be.

Just a few thoughts....

Which isn't any greater in our generation then in any other.

Ahahahaha......wooo....thanks for makin' me laugh.

Edit: I don't really support complulsory military service, I just think that it would do a lot of the youth today a world of good.

Some of you complain about military service but think about the Russians for a minute. They have to serve 2 years at 18.

Some of you complain about military service but think about the Russians for a minute. They have to serve 2 years at 18.

Russia is hardly the same as the United States. Even calling them a democracy seems iffy to me.

We have mandatory military service. About 80% of male population go through it. 6-12 months. Me, I served 12 months and left an officer. Personally, I think it's a good thing, teaches people responsibility and stuff. That not everything revolves around yourself, and teaches you to work with other people. Surely wouldn't hurt in countries like USA either, though I'm pretty sure the public opinion is so much against it they're not going to have it anymore.

You can't escape one thing, though - common military service is little more than a playschool for big boys. But it's got some ups in it ;)

yea but going to collage woulnt train you to shoot properly at an intruder or survive in the wilderness and it sure aint going to put food on the table :eek: :sniper:


You don't have to be in the military to learn to shoot or defend yourself or learn to survive in the wilderness. I'm a great shot, perfectly capable of defending myself, and taught wilderness survival. The really crazy part: I never had any military training. By the way, I'm going to college so that I CAN put food on the table......duh....

You think that handing people guns and training them to shoot will reduce crime? I'd say that even if crime rates fell generally, violent crime would rise. Compound that with it delaying education, which hurts people economically and makes us less globally competitive, and damaging military morale, and I think it's a ridiculous plan.

Plus, what do you do about homosexuality? Our military is afraid of it, but you want everyone to serve?

Some of you complain about military service but think about the Russians for a minute. They have to serve 2 years at 18.

And the Russians are happy about this? That makes them disciplined, respectful, awesome people? Okay....

And the Russians are happy about this? That makes them disciplined, respectful, awesome people? Okay....

You can hardly compare to Russia... everyone there is avoiding service as best they can, not the least because a) it's quite likely you'll be actually dragged to war, and b) inhumane treatment, which is the death of an incredibly big number of recruits per year

We have mandatory military service. About 80% of male population go through it. 6-12 months. Me, I served 12 months and left an officer. Personally, I think it's a good thing, teaches people responsibility and stuff. That not everything revolves around yourself, and teaches you to work with other people. Surely wouldn't hurt in countries like USA either, though I'm pretty sure the public opinion is so much against it they're not going to have it anymore.

You can't escape one thing, though - common military service is little more than a playschool for big boys. But it's got some ups in it ;)

As stated before, there are a lot of people who already have the qualities you say the military taught you. Eveyone learns in different ways. For some people, it may take the military to learn that. For others, like myself, it was taught in the home or in other areas throughout my life. The US has an awesome military, again, because the people who are in it there because they WANT to be. There's also the fact that people don't change unless they want to. For some people, military service wouldn't do anything or change anything. They'll still be irresponsible, egotistical, and nonsocial. That's just how some people are and will always be.

You can hardly compare to Russia... everyone there is avoiding service as best they can, not the least because a) it's quite likely you'll be actually dragged to war, and b) inhumane treatment, which is the death of an incredibly big number of recruits per year

so my point is validated

As stated before, there are a lot of people who already have the qualities you say the military taught you. Eveyone learns in different ways. For some people, it may take the military to learn that. For others, like myself, it was taught in the home or in other areas throughout my life. The US has an awesome military, again, because the people who are in it there because they WANT to be. There's also the fact that people don't change unless they want to. For some people, military service wouldn't do anything or change anything. They'll still be irresponsible, egotistical, and nonsocial. That's just how some people are and will always be.

One point though, I never said it taught me those qualities ;)

But right you are, though I must tell you, it changes everyone in some way. My point was not to argue whether or not USA, or any other country should have it, just wished to share the experience I have of the subject - seeing how very few people on this thread have any army experience, and even less of compulsory service, which happens to be the subject :)

I'm planning to go to College first, then enter the military. Simply so I can say "Hey, I was an officer and did...this...this...and this."

Compulsary service is an interesting concept, but you gotta see what Compulsary service in say a wrong minded government would do.

Take Hitler for example, he forced any, boy and old man into the military, and still lost, lost an entire generation of young men.

Now if we had compulsary service, think of all of those young men and woman, being sent to Iraq. Watch how fast the US government gets overthrown.

Plus, what do you do about homosexuality? Our military is afraid of it, but you want everyone to serve?

I think it would make a lot more straight boys less fearful of people thinking they were gay....after all, just claiming it could get you out of doing it, no?

One point though, I never said it taught me those qualities ;)

But right you are, though I must tell you, it changes everyone in some way. My point was not to argue whether or not USA, or any other country should have it, just wished to share the experience I have of the subject - seeing how very few people on this thread have any army experience, and even less of compulsory service, which happens to be the subject :)

Sorry--I just assumed. I wasn't trying to attack you--I'm just a debater. ;)

While I agree that service of some sort could have great benefits- heck, even a scouting-based movement would be great- there's the other side of the coin, too. Kids will start to think things like, say, "if I get knocked up, I'll be unfit for service!" and other similar ideas. A lot of kids today may only have two brain cells, but if they bang their heads hard enough they'll rub together.

I think it would make a lot more straight boys less fearful of people thinking they were gay....after all, just claiming it could get you out of doing it, no?

Or end up with a lot more gay boys beat the fuck up in boot camp. The hypermasculinity of the military isn't a friendly environment towards homosexuality.

Or end up with a lot more gay boys beat the fuck up in boot camp. The hypermasculinity of the military isn't a friendly environment towards homosexuality.

We thinking of events like that Air Force kid who was killed a few years back?

We thinking of events like that Air Force kid who was killed a few years back?

I'm not really thinking of any event in particular, but rather the general attitude of our military, which has been borne out in my interactions with those considering entering the service, or former servicemen.

Sorry--I just assumed. I wasn't trying to attack you--I'm just a debater. ;)

None taken, I figured as much. And, I'm not the clearest speaker myself

Well, think it's my time to retire for the night..

As a former Marine and current National Guardsmen, I can say that this is a really stupid idea that would waste a whole hell of alot of money and considerably degrade the quality of the Armed Forces. Having been in combat extensively, I would not want some whiny 18 year old conscript jackass watching my six, fixing my track, purifying my water, or doing anything else that can jeapordize my safety. We have enough morons in the service without having to deal with more. (Everyone who has been or is in the military will understand and appreciate the morons comment :) ) Sure, it works well in Switzerland where the only reason the guys get activated is in the threat of a foreign power invading the country. In our case.... it is just the opposite.

And.... if we force them into doing it, exactly how much respect for our 'free' society would they really gain? How much respect for themselves? In the Marines, we have a brotherhood because every Marine wants (or did at some point) to be a Marine. In the Guard... it is a bunch of old, fat, lazy bastards ( I am biased, being in HHC) that whine on a three-block road'march.'

B. It would pour lots of money into the communities and would not cost much.

Explain to me where this money would come from in the first place, would you?

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:

I don't agree. A volunteer army is much more professional.. conscripts are not professional, degrade the level of training in the military, and could possibly even be poor in combat skills.

"Sure, it works well in Switzerland where the only reason the guys get activated is in the threat of a foreign power invading the country."

When was the last time? :)

"Sure, it works well in Switzerland where the only reason the guys get activated is in the threat of a foreign power invading the country."

When was the last time? :)

1940, IIRC.

1940, IIRC.

I thought Hitler didn't invade?

Well, I'm not sure.

I thought Hitler didn't invade?
Well, I'm not sure.

Hitler and Mussolini had troops in the Alps, and they saw what Hitler had done to Belgium, so it was a good idea to say the least. Hitler didn't invade, but the threat was there.

Hitler and Mussolini had troops in the Alps, and they saw what Hitler had done to Belgium, so it was a good idea to say the least. Hitler didn't invade, but the threat was there.

ya, but I was asking what was the last time when they actually got invaded?

I thought Hitler didn't invade?

Well, I'm not sure.

A quick Google shows it was in fact 1940 and was actually on May 11th, the day Belgium got invaded. With that act all bets were off for Europe and the perceived threat of invasion did exist.

ya, but I was asking what was the last time when they actually got invaded?

Chap called Napoleon circa 1800.

A quick Google shows it was in fact 1940 and was actually on May 11th, the day Belgium got invaded. With that act all bets were off for Europe and the perceived threat of invasion did exist.

Well that I didn't know. Thanks for clarifying.

I noticed this at the start of the game. It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea. One year starting at 18. It would teach discipline crime rates would drop. I know i'm going to get a lot of wimp complaints about "my civil liberties" and "What about my human rights". It would do you good, i'm 16 i would happily volunteer most of todays youth are too dam lazy or anti social they need straightening out :gundge:

That's great. You go out and volunteer and leave the rest of us out of it. I want nothing with a job which includes the killing of people, most of whom are only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You go have your fun.

Ok... Having gotten that snark out of my system.

You might think a stint in the military is a good thing. I don't. Just as you have your right to sign up, I also have mine to not. Don't even pretend to have the right to judge me or my choices. "Discipline" is a messed up thing anyway. What's the point of respecting people who fasion themselves your superiors? Most of them are fucked up fat-cat bastards. There's nothing wimpish about valuing civil rights above unwilling impressment.

As for "straightening out", frankly, I can't thing of a stupider, more totalitarian thing to want to inflict on people. Who's to say your way of life is the one acceptable one? Why do you have the right to judge other people as "lazy" and "anti-social". And for that matter, why are they bad things?

It is in my oppinion a brilliant idea, blah-blah-blah *snip*
It is, in my opinion, stupid beyond all believable bounds. I'd sooner see students given the opportunity to take part in providing community services in a number of different communities across the nation, in order to be exposed to and become at least rudimentarily familiar with as many different local cultures as may be within one's own borders.

We have a program like that here in Canada. It's called Katimavik, and many people have taken part in it, including one of my own siblings. I'd recommend that sort of voluntary community service program over involuntary military service any day.

Here in Ontario, there is a mandatory community service program in high schools. It started after I graduated, though, so I have no information on how it works.

I just know there is a minimum number of hours required, otherwise they hold your diploma until you fulfill the requirements.

As for mandatory service... first of all, I agree that it's simply not feasible for a multitude of reasons already stated.

My personal opinion is that it would be a huge waste of money, even if the money's not the issue. Why invest in troops who don't plan to continue serving the army?

I'm not even sure where I stand on conscription during wartime, let alone forcing young people into the military during peace. If I wasn't already Canadian, I'd be a draft dodger on my way there if this was implemented because I don't personally believe the government has the right to risk my life without my consent, let alone the right TO a year of my life.

Most American High Schools also have a required community service in their government class. The National Honors Society requires community service as well.

I don't agree. A volunteer army is much more professional.. conscripts are not professional, degrade the level of training in the military, and could possibly even be poor in combat skills.


Exactly so. This is the very reason that the US and UK have gone to volunteer forces and (with a few exceptions that are due to unusual circumstances) many countries with conscript forces are either transitioning to or considering all volunteer forces. It is also the reason that a large percentage of professional military men (again with special exceptions as noted above) oppose conscription.

And those who advocate it as a means of instilling discipline need to consider - what is the military's purpose? If it is to be an educational institution for instilling discipline, then it's role as a defense organisation will be degraded.

Finally, conscript militaries tend to have higher rates of discipline and morale problems due to the fact that the conscripts do not want to be there.

Given the US population is over 250 million, do we really need that many people doing projects? I can't imagine the millitary needing or even wanting that many people unless the nation was actually at war.

We'd also run into the problem of females in combat, but we REALLY don't need that much support staff.

And besides, Vietnam showed quite well what happens when you have a large draft going on and people don't want to be there, they find a way around it.

I'd also be a little concerned about what happens if we don't do our service, what would be the penalty, especially for someone like me who is 4F due to being deaf.

I have all the discipline I require, without running the risk of fighting in a war I may or may not agree with, let alone completely disregarding any feelings of patriotism one might have.

Compulsory military service is a bad idea. The last thing you want is a bunch of people forced to fight for you. It's far better to have people fighting for you, because they want to, because they are willing to die for you, than the "alternative".

As a 16 year old liberal American male. I like this idea but with a bit of tweaking. 1) Those who turn 18 in high school get to finish but can't fail a year to stay out of it. 2) It's either a year in the military or 18 months of other valid community work. 3) You are paid as a regular soldier/employee (yes non-profits do have employees) would be and recieve $30,000 from the gov't towards higher education. 4) One can get out of it w/ the 30K if they agree to teach in a public school upon completion of college, a masters program and a teaching certification for 5 years. If they renig on it the service time is doubled.

As a 20 year old male who has been attending university for 2 years, community service that is required is a bad idea. I don't have time for it. I have a part time job too

Meh... What people are discounting is that they really have yet to demonstrate a good reason for compulsory service. I have yet to see a correlation with daily abuse by a drill seargent and any socially redeeming values (and for that matter, socially redeeming values are no excuse either.).

You know... Maybe you ought to just call this "Re-education service" since we're all about teaching people the "right" way to live...

Gulags would work too, if you prefer.

One can get out of it w/ the 30K if they agree to teach in a public school upon completion of college, a masters program and a teaching certification for 5 years. If they renig on it the service time is doubled.

This already exists in America, you can get a lot of money for college if you attend to become a teacher and agree to teach in a public school when you graduate.

Thanks Ral, didn't know that.

Gulags would work too, if you prefer.
It's times like these I wish MK Ultra would show up with the blueprints for every secret Gulag planned for the midwest.

*sighs*