NationStates Jolt Archive

PARIS - An Internet video that depicts the Nazi death camp Auschwitz as a rave party drew sharp criticism Wednesday from a Jewish rights group, which urged authorities to have it removed from European Web sites.

The three-minute video titled "Housewitz" — a pun on house music and Auschwitz — casts Nazi soldiers as DJs. It alternates black-and-white still photos of Holocaust atrocities with color images of youths at an outdoor party. And it advertises a "Free taxi ride home," showing a wheelbarrow full of corpses.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's European office denounced the video as "outrageous," saying it goes "beyond the bounds of freedom of expression to an unprecedented level of obscenity."

The center asked the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to call on countries where Web sites have posted the video to "immediately stop the spread of this pernicious nihilism."

Jaroslaw Mensfeld, a spokesman for the museum at the Auschwitz Memorial in Poland, said he was "absolutely shocked." Some 1.5 million people, mostly Jews, were killed at the Nazi camp during World War II. "I don't understand how a person can make such a movie," he said.

The film is featured on one Dutch and two Polish Web sites, the Wiesenthal Center said.

The Dutch Web site, Geenstijl, says it's doing nothing wrong in posting the video. The site, whose name means "no style," says it mixes news with "light subjects and pleasantly twisted nonsense." It has published a disclaimer saying it copied the video after learning it was being talked about in Internet chat rooms.

"We didn't make the video, but it is an integral part of the discussion by our viewers. It's not illegal and we don't intend to remove it from the site," said Oscar van Wijland, one of the Web site's writers.

According to the Dutch Complaints Bureau for Discrimination on the Internet, the video's maker is a 22-year-old Dutch student. Six weeks ago, the bureau received a complaint about the video and had it pulled from three Web sites.

Later, when the Geenstijl site posted the film, the complaints bureau went to the Amsterdam Public Prosecutor but was told the video was "not illegal enough" to prosecute, the bureau said. It plans to appeal.

___

Associated Press Writer Arthur Max in Amsterdam contributed to this report.

Posting an article without providing any commentary of your own as/or a basis of debate is frowned upon, and can be considered spamming. Just so you know.

/Not touching this with a ten meter pole.

That's just sickening.what kind of person thinks of an idea like that,and worse what kind of person actually goes out and makes the video?!the people that died their deserve respect after what they have been put through.whoever made that movie had better hope some of the survivors dont come kicking down their door.....

People are retarded.

I have a link to this überidiotic video.
It's your will if you want to watch it or not:
http://www.geenstijl.nl/paginas/housewitz.html
This man should be sued and the best solution would be to imprison him with a few Jews in one cell if he likes jokes so much.
In my opinion a 22 year old man would sound "attractive" for them.

EDIT:
That site seems to be down actually.

Posting an article without providing any commentary of your own as/or a basis of debate is frowned upon, and can be considered spamming. Just so you know.

/Not touching this with a ten meter pole.


Hold your horses for a minute will ya, I was still typing and getting the link here.
Allways the same with ya.

EDIT:
That site seems to be down actually.

I wonder is that a coincidence or has it actually been shut down recently in response to this?it could be they were only moments/minutes/whatever forced to shut it down and the reason for this hasnt got onto the internet yet.

If it had been Germans doing something like this in Germany, they'd get prosecuted for "Volksverhetzung" faster than you can say "controversial"... :D

I wonder is that a coincidence or has it actually been shut down recently in response to this?it could be they were only moments/minutes/whatever forced to shut it down and the reason for this hasnt got onto the internet yet.

Don't think so because there are over 200 comments on it on the site. They are sued by some Jewish organisations. But those again or shooting on the messager.

Hm. This is silly. Who cares? It's a silly little video on the internet. Is it really worth making such a big deal out of? It really seems a bit silly.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's European office denounced the video as "outrageous," saying it goes "beyond the bounds of freedom of expression to an unprecedented level of obscenity."

The center asked the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to call on countries where Web sites have posted the video to "immediately stop the spread of this pernicious nihilism."


The Wiesenthal Center is doing something far worse than some idiot who made this extremly tasteless video.

It´s pretty obvious which one of these two incidents is an attack on our democratic society ... "Goes beyond the freedom of expression"? Get lost, authoritarian tool.

Hm. This is silly. Who cares? It's a silly little video on the internet. Is it really worth making such a big deal out of? It really seems a bit silly.

It's making light of the murder of 1.5 million people. It's like joking about Idi Amin or John Gacy; it's just despicable and hurtful to the people who experienced it firsthand.

If it had been Germans doing something like this in Germany, they'd get prosecuted for "Volksverhetzung" faster than you can say "controversial"... :D


or killed in the street by some old jewish guy before you could say volksverhetzung.mein gott!

I have a link to this überidiotic video.

Linking to it may not be so prudent. If it is as offensive and inflammatory as described, then it is probably a rule violation to post links to it.

Hm. This is silly. Who cares? It's a silly little video on the internet. Is it really worth making such a big deal out of? It really seems a bit silly.I do. That little sh*t is spitting on my heritage (which I take seriously). He's spitting on the graves of anyone that fought against Hitler in that war and anyone that was murdered by the NS regime or it's cronies (this includes A LOT of his own countrymen).
Crap like that is under NO CIRCUMSTANCES acceptable.

or killed in the street by some old jewish guy before you could say volksverhetzung.mein gott!Not here. The only extremist jews I know of are in Israel. Everyone over here is well behaved and civilized. (Not that this means that Israelis are all extremist :eek: )

Hm. This is silly. Who cares? It's a silly little video on the internet. Is it really worth making such a big deal out of? It really seems a bit silly.

Well, I'm sure you wouldn't consider it a "silly little video" if it was the deaths of your relatives (sometimes immediate) that was mocked and regarded in such a "light-hearted" fashion. It shouldn't be considered silly even to those who aren't Jewish. Once we begin to forget the true nature of horror that happened behind those camp walls, we will lose ourselves in apathy. That will be a sad day should it ever come.

Linking to it may not be so prudent. If it is as offensive and inflammatory as described, then it is probably a rule violation to post links to it.
You worry about your own , troll.

It's 60 years ago, 60 years for heavens sake! I know it's in poor taste, and what happened there stands as a monument as a remembrance of the mass genocide. But damn, parody is still the best form of humor no matter the subject.

It's making light of the murder of 1.5 million people. It's like joking about Idi Amin or John Gacy; it's just despicable and hurtful to the people who experienced it firsthand.

Yeah... what s/he said. *cookie to Vetalia*

The Wiesenthal Center is doing something far worse than some idiot who made this extremly tasteless video.

It´s pretty obvious which one of these two incidents is an attack on our democratic society ... "Goes beyond the freedom of expression"? Get lost, authoritarian tool.

I reluctantly agree with you.

It's 60 years ago, 60 years for heavens sake! I know it's in poor taste, and what happened there stands as a monument as a remembrance of the mass genocide. But damn, parody is still the best form of humor no matter the subject.

And why in the world should this be a humorous subject? :confused:

Yeah... what s/he said. *cookie to Vetalia*

He. ;)

He. ;)

*another cookie for correcting him* :p

</hijack>

Originally Posted by Bushrepublican liars
The Wiesenthal Center is doing something far worse than some idiot who made this extremly tasteless video.

It´s pretty obvious which one of these two incidents is an attack on our democratic society ... "Goes beyond the freedom of expression"? Get lost, authoritarian tool.

_____________________________________

I reluctantly agree with you.

As do I.

You worry about your own , troll.

Now that is completely unwarranted! I'm telling you this so you don't get in trouble. Fail to heed my warnings, suit yourself. But to claim that I'm trolling for pointing out that you are acting less than prudently in regards to the rules that govern this forum (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) is just ridiculous.

But, by all means, go ahead, continue digging yourself a nice hole. No sweat off my back.

Not here. The only extremist jews I know of are in Israel. Everyone over here is well behaved and civilized. (Not that this means that Israelis are all extremist :eek: )


well i was thinking of some old survivor.if anyone is outraged by this i think its safe to say its them.and they have every right to be

Now that is completely unwarranted! I'm telling you this so you don't get in trouble. .
No you weren't doing that for not getting in trouble. You allready started with your first post here, pointing me instead of debating. BTW, there is nothing here against forumguidelines.(no link, neither).

Now that is completely unwarranted! I'm telling you this so you don't get in trouble. Fail to heed my warnings, suit yourself. But to claim that I'm trolling for pointing out that you are acting less than prudently in regards to the rules that govern this forum (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) is just ridiculous.

But, by all means, go ahead, continue digging yourself a nice hole. No sweat off my back.

Sorry to cramp your style, Via, but Fass is right. If the video is anywhere close to the obscenity you claim it to be, then it would be against the rules of the forum to link it here. (Although why people wouldn't be smart enough to decide whether or not they want to view it without mod interference is beyond me.)

*ponders* Fass, is this the first time you and I have agreed on something? O.o

. If the video is anywhere close to the obscenity you claim it to be, then it would be against the rules of the forum to link it here.

There is no link since it does not work, like I said.

There is no link.

I realize that. And you're not in any breach of forum rules. But should that link you provided had been a good one, then there would have been a good chance you would be in breach. That's all Fass and I are trying to say, I think.

Once again I find myself repeating: You do not have the right to not be offended.

Now before anyone comes after me with the "You didn't have relatives being persecuted." line, I can assure you its highlyh likely I did (though it is a manner of some debate at family reunions... more because of the bigots on one side of the family than anything.)

The movie is tasteless, and perhaps even cruel, but it is not illegal. And to remove it would be violating free-speach laws.

Ah, well. Taking offense to it is understandable. But if it bothers you, then leave it alone. o.o Avoid it. It's still freedom o' speech, boyo.

Hrm... I get the feeling that people take things too seriously... Such as life in general...

No you weren't doing that for not getting in trouble.

What? That sentence makes no sense. I wouldn't have gotten in trouble because of what you posted - you would. And the mods have ruled several times on this matter and have reprimanded people for it before: cut&pasting articles without any comment of your own is not appreciated and can get you in trouble.

If you feel that it is becuase of malice that I tried to make you aware of this, then you are truly mistaken. The malicious thing would have been to just sit back and see you remain unaware of your precarious situation. Something your ingratitude and abrasiveness is slowly starting to make me wish I had, ironically.

You allready started with your first post here, pointing me instead of debating. BTW, there is nothing here against forumguidelines.(no link, neither).

There was nothing to debate, because you had provided no commentary of your own to direct a debate. That is why not posting your own comments with an article is frowned upon, and why I was making you aware of it.

*ponders* Fass, is this the first time you and I have agreed on something? O.o

I don't recall having disagreed on anything with you, since I can't recall having discussed anything with you either, so it's hard for me to comment. :fluffle:

Posting an article without providing any commentary of your own as/or a basis of debate is frowned upon, and can be considered spamming. Just so you know.

/Not touching this with a ten meter pole.

Fass is correct. Cut and paste without providing some commentary in the first post is considered spamming. Please don't do it again.

I don't recall having disagreed on anything with you, since I can't recall having discussed anything with you either, so it's hard for me to comment. :fluffle:

It's probably because I'm much newer than you, so I've spoken with less users (not to mention you're more popular :p). But it don't matter, baby. Show the love, is what I say. :fluffle: ;)

*cookie to Fass*

Hm. This is silly. Who cares? It's a silly little video on the internet. Is it really worth making such a big deal out of? It really seems a bit silly.


Oh and the holocaust was something trivial and silly as well? They are making fun and making it seem like an insignificant part of history when they make moronic idiotic trash like this. I dont want to see it and I think it should be illegal to hurt people like this. Showing corpses like that-THEY WERE TORTURED TO DEATH, they were not out partying. Who cares? Lots of folks since 6 MILLION people died in concentration camps such as Auschwitz. These idiots need to attend some sensitivity classes or some sort of counseling because they must be at least slightly disturbed to be making this filth! One of those silly corpses might still have living family out there and if they saw that..... :mad: :sniper: OH just did a little back reading...the freedom of speech would probably take a back seat to privacy laws regarding using the images of those dead individuals...did they get permission to use their images? NO!

It's probably because I'm much newer than you, so I've spoken with less users (not to mention you're more popular :p). But it don't matter, baby. Show the love, is what I say. :fluffle: ;)

Oh, I'm not popular - there are just so many people here who disagree with me, that's it's quite difficult to keep track of you all and what it is you disagree on. And, I'll have you know you're just few months "newer" than me - I'm just spammier than you! ;)

*cookie to Fass*

*cookie devoured*

What happened back then was terrible. That's something we can never forget, and I really doubt we ever will.

I can't say for sure, however, if I'd be offended, if I had reason to be so. I myself have not seen this video, so I couldn't know for sure. The description of the video in the news article makes it sound pretty lame, actually. And, some parts sound offensive, and not really funny at all. Especially the "free taxi ride home" thing. That's just disturbing. This video sounds offensive. Either the author has a very morbid sense of humor, or his original intent was to be offensive. Some people are like that.

If the video were actually funny, I might have a different opinion, but this just seems offensive and not very humorous at all.

I laughed repeatly while reading the article but thats probably just my sick sense of humour.

Just because you find it offensive does not make it illegal. Bad taste doesn't mean he/she is breaking the law. In my opinion, if it is breaking the law in some countries, then it is a law that needs to be broken. The video prolly shouldn't have been made just due to the subject matter, but I believe it was well within the rights of the "director" to do it. I personally will be more concerned if some places DO find it illegal and take it down because, yes the holocaust was dark time in human history that IMO should not be made light off, that is still my opinion. My opinion should never override a persons rights to express themselves in any way, shape or form (unless it infringes on my rights that is :P). Besides, how bad is the video? Is average Joe going to happen onto it on the internet, see it and have his opinion about the holocaust change? I think not. Can anyone honestly see the video and ahve it change how they feel about the subject? Again, I think not. If anything, it is bringing light to the subject and might make someone out there that doesn't really know what went on research the subject more and see what really happened. In my mind, that is a good thing lest we as a race let the images drop from our memories and it repeats itself.

So, in closing: video=poor taste =/= illegal

YMMV

Honestly, I'm not sure I see the problem here. With the video, I mean.

Yes, the Holocaust was terrible. Yes, it should never have happened. Yes, a lot of people probably still have strong reactions to it.

But...

The holocaust cannot (or at least should not) remain sacrosanct forever. There are too many tragedies in life to act that way. Take some time to reflect on the horrors of what happened, then put it behind you and learn from it.

Making light of a tragedy isn't sick -- it just serves to show that the wound created by the tragedy is healing, and that the world is starting to move on.

So, in closing: video=poor taste =/= illegal
Not in Germany. It's a crime.

^^Yes, I know it is illegal in Germany. As I said, for the places that do find it illegal, I think that law should be broken as I don't think it should override basic human freedoms. Should car crash scenes be illegal? Lots of people have died from those as well. I was just saying I don't think it is right to outlaw something like that, tho I do know that it is a rather touchy subject in Germany.

^^Yes, I know it is illegal in Germany. As I said, for the places that do find it illegal, I think that law should be broken as I don't think it should override basic human freedoms. Should car crash scenes be illegal? Lots of people have died from those as well. I was just saying I don't think it is right to outlaw something like that, tho I do know that it is a rather touchy subject in Germany.Um, personal rights go hang when they cross a line, and shit like that video does. It's perfectly alright to outlaw stuff like that. I'm shocked that the Dutch, that suffered horribly under the German occupation, don't do enough against it.
Comparing the holocaust to car crashes is something you shouldn't do. That's why "Volksverhetzung" is a crime in Germany, it relativates the horror of the holocaust.

While this is an absolutely tasteless and vile and foul (and so on and so forth) movie, making light of a horrifying and bloody depressing period in history, I don't think you should censor it. Rubbish it may be, but last time I checked all those countries were at least semi-free, which means they can't touch whoever made this.

I don't think I was comparing car crashes to the holocaust. I was talking about censoring. If you would please get off the soap box, I never said the holocaust wasn't bad nor compared it to a car wreck. But I do fail to see why a car wreck that someone dies in is not as bad. When someone dies, although it's sad, it doesn't matter how many died IMO. They are both tragedies and I don't think one should be protected anymore than the other one.

I bet he got less than a fraction of bandwidth to his site before becoming "controversial"

I know if I ever make a website and it is about to be shutdown for lack of visitors clicking ads and shit, I will put a controversial video on it

I don't think I was comparing car crashes to the holocaust. I was talking about censoring. If you would please get off the soap box, I never said the holocaust wasn't bad nor compared it to a car wreck. But I do fail to see why a car wreck that someone dies in is not as bad. When someone dies, although it's sad, it doesn't matter how many died IMO. They are both tragedies and I don't think one should be protected anymore than the other one.

Almost all car crashes are accidents, and even those that aren't accidents are perpetrated by individuals acting on their own impulses. The Holocaust was the systematic attempt by a government to eradicate an entire group of people and was justified by one of the most powerful engines of hatred ever concieved in human history. The Holocaust is far worse, because it was premeditated and carried out in a systematic manner by an entire government; they cannot be compared and are not the same.

I haven't seen the film and I won't watch it. I think this is definitely crossing the lines of decency, and I question the motive of those offering it.

Still, and with real reluctance, I support the freedom of speech and expression as used here. We can't legislate decency and respect. Tempting as it is.

Dude this is just lamers

Its incredibly insensitive. That said, it should not be taken off any websites, and the creator/s should have 0 punishment or retribution. Free speech isnt about hearing what you want to hear.

Who gives a shit? Really, it was a marketing gimmick, albeit in bad taste.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's European office denounced the video as "outrageous," saying it goes "beyond the bounds of freedom of expression to an unprecedented level of obscenity."

I suppose this goes to show who the real "Nazis" are.

Cartman: Damnit Butters! Keep eating or I'll kick you till you're deader than Kenny!
Stan: [soberly] Dude, that isn't cool. You shouldn't joke about Kenny being dead. Enough time hasn't passed.
Cartman: So how long until we can joke about it?
Kyle: Twenty-two point three years. That's how long it takes for something tragic to become funny.


Hmm..so it would seem that 60 years ought to be easily long enough?

Certainly to me it would seem that anything that has become so well entrenched as a subject that cannot be touched on lightly, is setting itself up to become the next target for a little well aimed humour intended at challenging the boundaries of taste and acceptability.

By such challenges to the accepted does the world move forward, scandalous as it may seem at the time when subjects previously held sacrosanct are seized upon for mirth.

In fact I feel such humour has a very valid role to play in being at the forefront of such change in attitudes and values.

I didn't know about this flash anim before I read this thread, but I am grateful for having found it.

Yes, I just watched it (hint: find the .swf not the page in the link *hopes that comment isnt enough to get me in trouble here lol*)

I am not saying I agree with the content in any way shape or form- but viewed as pure antinomianism I can only applaud those who had the balls and vision to create it :)

Of course in the free speech/censorship debate, I am firmly on the side of free speech on this one.. and hope I have not in any way overstepped the bounds of the free speech allowed here in expressing my views on this production!

Well, I read this topic and i read that forbidding it would be violating free speech. Okay. I'll rape and kill a woman and put a movie from it in the Internet. Everything's OK, everything's fine. If family of that woman wants to stop showing it, I suppose this goes to show who the real "Nazis" are.


The holocaust cannot (or at least should not) remain sacrosanct forever. There are too many tragedies in life to act that way. Take some time to reflect on the horrors of what happened, then put it behind you and learn from it.
Yeah, but I feel that this "some time to reflect" hasn't passed yet.


Making light of a tragedy isn't sick -- it just serves to show that the wound created by the tragedy is healing, and that the world is starting to move on.
No, it serves to show how tactless some can be. See what I wrote above.

(Sorry for second post)
I'll rape and kill a woman and put a movie from it in the Internet.
Okay, this should rather look like "I'll make a movie from rape and murder and put it in the Internet".

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's European office denounced the video as "outrageous," saying it goes "beyond the bounds of freedom of expression to an unprecedented level of obscenity."


While the video certainly sounds tasteless and obscene, that is not even close to justification for taking away freedom of expression.

It was only 50 years ago that those very Jews featured in that video were persecuted because they were seen as offensive and obscene.

On this forum (And many others) the emoticons on the board have people with guns firing at each other (Sometimes with inane grins on their faces, although not here). I'm pretty sure guns have killed a lot more people than the Holocaust did, and even if they haven't they have killed plenty of people. Should we remove the guns from the emoticons, because they make light of instruments of death? Of course not.

This article does a lot for the video's popularity, by giving it publicity. If all the news reporters that are supposedly disgusted at this video just ignored it, then less people would see them. Of course they really don't care about that, they just care about making money.

OH just did a little back reading...the freedom of speech would probably take a back seat to privacy laws regarding using the images of those dead individuals...did they get permission to use their images? NO!


Unfortunately for you, sezyou, the images used are public domain, and there would be no privacy laws concerning the people depicted within them. Thus, freedom of speech and expression triumph, and people need to stop making such a big deal about it. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

PARIS - An Internet video that depicts the Nazi death camp Auschwitz as a rave party drew sharp criticism Wednesday from a Jewish rights group, which urged authorities to have it removed from European Web sites.

The three-minute video titled "Housewitz" — a pun on house music and Auschwitz — casts Nazi soldiers as DJs. It alternates black-and-white still photos of Holocaust atrocities with color images of youths at an outdoor party. And it advertises a "Free taxi ride home," showing a wheelbarrow full of corpses.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's European office denounced the video as "outrageous," saying it goes "beyond the bounds of freedom of expression to an unprecedented level of obscenity."

The center asked the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to call on countries where Web sites have posted the video to "immediately stop the spread of this pernicious nihilism."

Jaroslaw Mensfeld, a spokesman for the museum at the Auschwitz Memorial in Poland, said he was "absolutely shocked." Some 1.5 million people, mostly Jews, were killed at the Nazi camp during World War II. "I don't understand how a person can make such a movie," he said.

The film is featured on one Dutch and two Polish Web sites, the Wiesenthal Center said.

The Dutch Web site, Geenstijl, says it's doing nothing wrong in posting the video. The site, whose name means "no style," says it mixes news with "light subjects and pleasantly twisted nonsense." It has published a disclaimer saying it copied the video after learning it was being talked about in Internet chat rooms.

"We didn't make the video, but it is an integral part of the discussion by our viewers. It's not illegal and we don't intend to remove it from the site," said Oscar van Wijland, one of the Web site's writers.

According to the Dutch Complaints Bureau for Discrimination on the Internet, the video's maker is a 22-year-old Dutch student. Six weeks ago, the bureau received a complaint about the video and had it pulled from three Web sites.

Later, when the Geenstijl site posted the film, the complaints bureau went to the Amsterdam Public Prosecutor but was told the video was "not illegal enough" to prosecute, the bureau said. It plans to appeal.

___

Associated Press Writer Arthur Max in Amsterdam contributed to this report.

I think anyone who condemns such a production is a hypocrite while those who support it have a perverse sense of humour.

It is called freedom of speech people; live and let live.

I'm going to have to agree with a lot of previous posters and say that, while the video sounds like it is in extremely poor taste, and I think whoever created it is a moron, it shouldn't be illegal. It's really sad, though, that there are people out there who would think that sort of crap is funny... :(

It was only 50 years ago that those very Jews featured in that video were persecuted because they were seen as offensive and obscene.

I agree with the persecution but not with the part of "they were seen as offensive and obscene" and specially not with your timetable: 2005-50 years= 1955. Explain please.Did not you mean until 60 years ago?
But since you're a US citizen, I understand the history problem and what you try to say ;) (hell allways difficult with you guys, ask your president to invest more in history at school!)

The Wiesenthal Center is doing something far worse than some idiot who made this extremly tasteless video.

It´s pretty obvious which one of these two incidents is an attack on our democratic society ... "Goes beyond the freedom of expression"? Get lost, authoritarian tool.
Well put, and I couldn't agree more,Bushliar
Best,
Velo

I agree with the persecution but not with the part of "they were seen as offensive and obscene" and specially not with your timetable: 2005-50 years= 1955. Explain please.Did not you mean until 60 years ago ;)

Oh Sweet Jesus. That wasn't even a typo, maybe the biggest brain fart ever.

Their religious views were seen as being offensive, as their belief that Jesus was not the messiah was seen as the single reason that Jesus was crucified.

They also saw the Jewish role in society (or at least the made up one they gave them) as being obscene and offensive. Take a look at this:

The German National Catechism (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/catech.htm)

PARIS - An Internet video that depicts the Nazi death camp Auschwitz as a rave party drew sharp criticism Wednesday from a Jewish rights group, which urged authorities to have it removed from European Web sites.

The three-minute video titled "Housewitz" — a pun on house music and Auschwitz — casts Nazi soldiers as DJs. It alternates black-and-white still photos of Holocaust atrocities with color images of youths at an outdoor party. And it advertises a "Free taxi ride home," showing a wheelbarrow full of corpses.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center's European office denounced the video as "outrageous," saying it goes "beyond the bounds of freedom of expression to an unprecedented level of obscenity."

The center asked the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to call on countries where Web sites have posted the video to "immediately stop the spread of this pernicious nihilism."

Jaroslaw Mensfeld, a spokesman for the museum at the Auschwitz Memorial in Poland, said he was "absolutely shocked." Some 1.5 million people, mostly Jews, were killed at the Nazi camp during World War II. "I don't understand how a person can make such a movie," he said.

The film is featured on one Dutch and two Polish Web sites, the Wiesenthal Center said.

The Dutch Web site, Geenstijl, says it's doing nothing wrong in posting the video. The site, whose name means "no style," says it mixes news with "light subjects and pleasantly twisted nonsense." It has published a disclaimer saying it copied the video after learning it was being talked about in Internet chat rooms.

"We didn't make the video, but it is an integral part of the discussion by our viewers. It's not illegal and we don't intend to remove it from the site," said Oscar van Wijland, one of the Web site's writers.

According to the Dutch Complaints Bureau for Discrimination on the Internet, the video's maker is a 22-year-old Dutch student. Six weeks ago, the bureau received a complaint about the video and had it pulled from three Web sites.

Later, when the Geenstijl site posted the film, the complaints bureau went to the Amsterdam Public Prosecutor but was told the video was "not illegal enough" to prosecute, the bureau said. It plans to appeal.

___

Associated Press Writer Arthur Max in Amsterdam contributed to this report.


Um, I don't see what's so bad. Sure, it's offensive, but it's also good political commentary.

To put it simply... In order to do and say what you'd like to, you must allow people the same, good or bad.

To me, this is drugged-out pornography. On drugs, this may make sense. It doesn't to me, but hey--
Who am I kidding? I watch some porn that's offensive to a lot of people.
Every great now and then, it involves only a single gender, or an indiscriminate mixture of both! :eek:

Really, should the courts decide that this is unlawful, given that license to declare what is offensive or not-so-much-so, don't you think that might leak into other areas of culture?

Before you answer with your heart, make a pass-by the brain first. What's good for the goose...

Oh Sweet Jesus. That wasn't even a typo, maybe the biggest brain fart ever.]
Sorry Vitos O., my mothertongue is not English so I don't understand what you mean with brain fart. Guess you say that it was a typo or so since you are to informed to make that mistake :)


The German National Catechism (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/catech.htm)

I am a member on different WWII fora ("fora"? we say fora as multiple for "forum") and well aware of that. But I finetune that kind of antisemitisme and know that lots of rightwing (allways watch out with rightwingers) Germans believed in the conspiracy theory of the backstab (dolkstoss) in 1918 and their surrender towards France and the other allies, they blaimed the Jews and the left for it (and the following revolution that let us see the "Raderrepublic" at München) Also the blackmarket and the smugling by German (let's not forget that they were German to) Jews during the early 1920ies crisis helped to develop that hate. The Nazi propaganda was just the match it needed to persecute a big part of the German population, instead of the responsibles.

Sorry Vitos O., my mothertongue is not English so I don't understand what you mean with brain fart. Guess you say that it was a typo or so since you are to informed to make that mistake :)



I am a member on different WWII fora ("fora"? we say fora as multiple for "forum") and well aware of that. But I finetune that kind of antisemitisme and know that lots of rightwing (allways watch out with rightwingers) Germans believed in the conspiracy theory of the backstab (dolkstoss) in 1918 and their surrender towards France and the other allies, they blaimed the Jews and the left for it (and the following revolution that let us see the "Raderrepublic" at München) Also the blackmarket and the smugling by German (let's not forget that they were German to) Jews during the early 1920ies crisis helped to develop that hate. The Nazi propaganda was just the match it needed to persecute a big part of the German population, instead of the responsibles.
Can someone sho speaks whatever the fuck this is translate, please?

Sorry Vitos O., my mothertongue is not English so I don't understand what you mean with brain fart. Guess you say that it was a typo or so since you are to informed to make that mistake :)

No, I meant that I didn't mistype it, that it was just a really bad mistake.

No, I meant that I didn't mistype it, that it was just a really bad mistake.
Oops. But I see you are informed.

Can someone sho speaks whatever the fuck this is translate, please?
Hey, don't be such a bastard, I said that it is not my mothertongue and you really understand my post.

Wiseguy, you wan't a language dual in 3/4 non English languages? I want to but I see that you come unarmed.

Guess we can add you to the next list:


Originally Posted by Via Ferrata
Salut,

T'a bien raison sur ces Americains, en plus, surtout ceux de l'extrème droite comme Corneliu et co. qui ont toujours cette arrogance envers les posters qui n'ont pas l'Anglais comme langue maternelle.


Amen!

Guess they mean arrogant persons like you here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437365&page=2&pp=15

Can someone sho speaks whatever the fuck this is translate, please?

I am a member on different WWII fora ("fora"? we say fora as multiple for "forum") and well aware of that. But I finetune that kind of antisemitisme and know that lots of rightwing (allways watch out with rightwingers) Germans believed in the conspiracy theory of the backstab (dolkstoss) in 1918 and their surrender towards France and the other allies, they blaimed the Jews and the left for it (and the following revolution that let us see the "Raderrepublic" at München) Also the blackmarket and the smugling by German (let's not forget that they were German to) Jews during the early 1920ies crisis helped to develop that hate. The Nazi propaganda was just the match it needed to persecute a big part of the German population, instead of the responsibles.

I am a member of a WWII forum and know about German propaganda, but I distinguish between most Germans and the the rightwing portion that believed the propaganda.

The rightwingers believed the theory (called "dolkstoss") that the Jews in Germany were responsible for their WWI surrender in 1918. The illegal activities of Jews in Germany also lead to increased hatred.

So the propaganda that the Nazi's released was all that was needed to spark the persecution of the Jews and let those who were truly responsible off the hook.

Hey, don't be such a bastard, I said that it is not my mothertongue and you really understand my post.

Wiseguy, you wan't a language dual in 3/4 non English languages? I want to but I see that you come unarmed.

Guess we can add you to the next list:

Guess they mean arrogant persons like you here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437365&page=2&pp=15

Whoa, settle down.

I thought that Eichen was a little harsh. You admitted that english was not your native language, and I was able to understand what you typed.

Your post seemed very well informed, so I would like to see you stay around. You won't stay around long, however, if you get defensive and go out and attack other posters. If you are offended by a comment, just brush it off and go on.

Whoa, settle down.

I thought that Eichen was a little harsh. You admitted that english was not your native language, and I was able to understand what you typed. .
Thanks, but I think he just is not aware about the early 1920ies. Dolkstoss, Raderrepublic in München and the founding of the NSDAP in that same unstable time aso.

. You won't stay around long, however, if you get defensive
I'll never go out and attack but will defend myself from such attacks like the "language" . Jezus like having English as mothertongue and only knowing to speak that language makes you a better person then one who does his utmost best and speaks 4 languages. Can't stand that kind of Ubermensch philosophy.
I respect all cultures but will never try to win a debate by pointing at someones language while that other person is showing his respect by speaking my language. Just a question of tollerance and respect.

It's all so very despicable.

Once again I find myself repeating: You do not have the right to not be offended.

Now before anyone comes after me with the "You didn't have relatives being persecuted." line, I can assure you its highlyh likely I did (though it is a manner of some debate at family reunions... more because of the bigots on one side of the family than anything.)

The movie is tasteless, and perhaps even cruel, but it is not illegal. And to remove it would be violating free-speach laws.


Was that sarcasm or a typo? I though it was -You Have the right to not be offended-
The right, not obligation. By saying -You do not have the right to not be offended- well it just doesn't make sense, that means someone/everyone should be offended?

Ok looked it up on the web.. I was meaning and taking "right" in a different way. Personal judgement, not law. Like I have the right to decide whether or not I take something personally offensive or not.

Thanks, but I think he just is not aware about the early 1920ies. Dolkstoss, Raderrepublic in München and the founding of the NSDAP in that same unstable time aso.


I'll never go out and attack but will defend myself from such attacks like the "language" . Jezus like having English as mothertongue and only knowing to speak that language makes you a better person then one who does his utmost best and speaks 4 languages. Can't stand that kind of Ubermensch philosophy.
I respect all cultures but will never try to win a debate by pointing at someones language while that other person is showing his respect by speaking my language. Just a question of tollerance and respect.

You didn't exactly defend yourself as much as you called Eichen a bastard, and then referring to a the people in that thread as arrogant.

And in Eichen's defence, I respect him, and he is very much a tolerant person but can be an asshole at times. I don't know what his intentions were, but I doubt he meant to put down you or your language.

so were is this party

You didn't exactly defend yourself as much as you called Eichen a bastard, and then referring to a the people in that thread as arrogant.

And in Eichen's defence, I respect him, and he is very much a tolerant person but can be an asshole at times. I don't know what his intentions were, but I doubt he meant to put down you or your language.

OK, point taken.
But attacking one on the language instad with arguments does not show a persons bests skills in a discussion.

Got to go now,
Best regards and thanks for the translation of my "English".

OK, point taken.
But attacking one on the language instad with arguments does not show a persons bests skills in a discussion.

Agreed

Got to go now,
Best regards and thanks for the translation of my "English".

It was entirely unnecessary, I just did it because I just wanted to show that it was perfectly understandable.

In the interests of people being able to make an informed opinion on the subject, here is a working link:Housewitz! (http://www.neukia.nl/mirrors/housewitz.swf)

If I get banned for this, its on my head people...and if I get banned for posting this link, I'll also be surprised.

To the people of NS in general:
If you don't want to see what it is your actually talking about, then might I suggest that you'd have made a fantastic Nazi.

The video isn't humorous unless you've been to a "megarave" in the past couple of years. If you have, its worth about one-half of chuckle, because it does scathingly poke fun at the industry, the scene, what it has become, and the ridiculous and tragic bullshit that takes place at actual events. If you've been in the "Rave" scene for anything more than a few years, you'll understand. Otherwise, I'm too lazy to bother explaining it all. It wouldn't actually make the video any less offensive to people. I'm just offering this as a way of explaining what motivated the creators of this thing to make it in the first place.

If people can't make tasteless jokes about anything at all, including the Holocaust, then there is something very wrong. Laughter helps us put things in perspective.

I think the video is offensive as much for its crapulence as it content, but the only thing banning it will acheive is to give it more publicity.

In the interests of people being able to make an informed opinion on the subject, here is a working link:Housewitz! (http://www.neukia.nl/mirrors/housewitz.swf)

.

I tried the "hierrrr klikken" but it still does not work.

Almost all car crashes are accidents, and even those that aren't accidents are perpetrated by individuals acting on their own impulses. The Holocaust was the systematic attempt by a government to eradicate an entire group of people and was justified by one of the most powerful engines of hatred ever concieved in human history. The Holocaust is far worse, because it was premeditated and carried out in a systematic manner by an entire government; they cannot be compared and are not the same.

What about movies that depict the murder of innocent people? To family members of murder victims, these could be seen as tasteless and vile. Yet there are countless movies that I can rent that show murders. I just saw 'Seven' on TV the other week.

What about rape? There are shows that have that as the central theme (Law & Order: SVU, for one) where the perpetrator is not punished. How could this make rape victims feel? Yet that show has been on the air for at least 5 or 6 years.

Now, my feelings on the subject... Do I think this video should have been made? No. Do I think that it is tasteless and bordering on indecent? Yes. Should the law force someone not to make it, or to remove it from their website where people can make a conscious choice whether or not they wish to view it? Absolutely not. Free speech is about saying whatever it is you want to say, not what people want to hear you say.

On this forum (And many others) the emoticons on the board have people with guns firing at each other (Sometimes with inane grins on their faces, although not here). I'm pretty sure guns have killed a lot more people than the Holocaust did, and even if they haven't they have killed plenty of people. Should we remove the guns from the emoticons, because they make light of instruments of death? Of course not.

This article does a lot for the video's popularity, by giving it publicity. If all the news reporters that are supposedly disgusted at this video just ignored it, then less people would see them. Of course they really don't care about that, they just care about making money.

In the four pages of posts I've read thus far, this was probably the most insightful. I applaud your view of the subject.

I tried the "hierrrr klikken" but it still does not work.

Looks like the site of the first link I provided is offline, try thie the mirror:
Housewitz (http://www.neukia.nl/mirrors/housewitz.swf)

purely disgusting - but not illegal - and you can try to ban things all you want but unfortunately it won't turn stupid people into smart ones

As much as I might like freedom of speech... there is a point where people can cross the line and actually be perpetrating breaches of privacy law or commission of libel and defamation. I am not saying that this is a case of it but rather that freedom of speech actually does have boundaries. When it encroaches on other freedoms it has to come into question.

The Wiesenthal Center is doing something far worse than some idiot who made this extremly tasteless video.

It´s pretty obvious which one of these two incidents is an attack on our democratic society ... "Goes beyond the freedom of expression"? Get lost, authoritarian tool.

Agreed. This video and similar distasteful forms of expression are the true test of whether we really believe in free speech, and more than one person in this thread has failed that test quite badly.

Here is a clear example of inciting to riot and commit genocide.

Rwanda massacre.

link: http://www.peace.ca/afbroadcasting_genocide.htm