NationStates Jolt Archive

Go, tell the Spartans, thou who passesth by,
That here obedient to their laws we lie.

Today is the 2485th anniversary of the Battle of Thermopylae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae).

Was it as great as all that?

Greek culture is mildly influential on modern Western culture, and if Persia had conquered Greece, who knows what the world might be like today. Thermopylae was rather important in the Persian Wars.

I don't really have an opinion on it as a battle but I do think that:

a/ 'Thermopylae' is possibly the greatest name for a battle
&
b/ your poll options are really cool ;)

Really neat story to tell afterwards. ;)

and "300 spartans" is a cool film too :)

I don't really have an opinion on it as a battle but I do think that:

a/ 'Thermopylae' is possibly the greatest name for a battle
&
b/ your poll options are really cool ;)

a) hmmm... sounds suspiciously like a Dave Barry band name comment...
b) thanks ;)


Really neat story to tell afterwards.

Well, yeah, maybe. If you were with Xerxes or Ephialtes, maybe.

Well, it was a grat battle but not the gratest one definitely

For example

Liberation of Orleans by Joan d'Arc,
Battle of Agincourt,
some Alexanders battles


they were also great and many more, I don't think I can pinpoint the greatest battle...

Well, it was a grat battle but not the gratest one definitely

For example

Liberation of Orleans by Joan d'Arc,
Battle of Agincourt,
some Alexanders battles


they were also great and many more, I don't think I can pinpoint the greatest battle...

From a Western standpoint you have to consider battles that saved Western civilization from complete defeat. Tours, Vienna, Thermopylae are the first three that come to mind for me.

Two points and an aside...
1) Thermopylae wasn't the real turning point in that Persian invasion, it was actually the sea battle at Salamis which defeated the Persians and sent them back home,
2) The real import of Thermopylae was not in its strategic value but instead in its intrinsic value. It was an example to the people of the age showing what a few men dedicated to a cause can accomplish (Remember the Alamo!).

As an aside, Yes, the "300 Spartans" is an excellent flick and you sure gave away your age with that one. :-) Unfortunately I haven't seen it on TV in more years than I can count and can't find it on video anywhere. :-)

Dont forget Poiters.

Palenor Fields is the greatest! :rolleyes:

Any Battle to halt Arab/Muslim expansion into Europe is Great.
Everyone talks of the Spartans but noone remembers those that stood by them till near the very end. :(

The truly inevitable other, the war to end all wars: Armageddon

I would believe Napolean's defeat at Waterloo. The final battle of the Age of Napolean was classic. Wellington's strategy against Napolean was perfect. Now we're talking about possibly the best strategist the world has ever seen in Napolean, but Wellington outsmarted him. He used Napolean's desparate return to power against him in provoking Napolean into battle in unfavorable conditions. While the main of Wellington's troops hid behind hills and the ground was wet, Wellington did a masterful job luring Napolean into the trap. Just beautiful, makes my C&C heart tingle.

Also, I think D-Day was very important and shows that with enough manpower and careless war leaders, anyone can take any piece of land.

I would believe Napolean's defeat at Waterloo. The final battle of the Age of Napolean was classic. Wellington's strategy against Napolean was perfect. Now we're talking about possibly the best strategist the world has ever seen in Napolean, but Wellington outsmarted him. He used Napolean's desparate return to power against him in provoking Napolean into battle in unfavorable conditions. While the main of Wellington's troops hid behind hills and the ground was wet, Wellington did a masterful job luring Napolean into the trap. Just beautiful, makes my C&C heart tingle.

Also, I think D-Day was very important and shows that with enough manpower and careless war leaders, anyone can take any piece of land.

Well you could argue that Wellington was just lucky and Le Empurer just had a bad case of the shits. But personally, I thought Wellington was more of a badass.

Well, yeah, maybe. If you were with Xerxes or Ephialtes, maybe.
We're still telling it now, right?

Parthini']Well you could argue that Wellington was just lucky and Le Empurer just had a bad case of the shits. But personally, I thought Wellington was more of a badass.

Most definately he was, and I'm also an American thinking a British commander, 25 years after the Revoluttion,was a badaas. Weird Huh?

The battle of Kursk in 1943 was the most complex and history changing battle in the last century. It used more soldiers, more different kinds of equipment and more strategy than Thermopylae.

Waterloo was my Fav. Great battle

The battle of Kursk in 1943 was the most complex and history changing battle in the last century. It used more soldiers, more different kinds of equipment and more strategy than Thermopylae.

Those things you listed are all missing from Thermopylae, and that is why it's great.

The Greeks who remained behind KNEW they would die, but held off a massively superior army long enough for the other Greek armies to get away. It set the tone of the war - that the Greeks would not capitulate like the other peoples the persians had conquered, that they would stand against huge odds. And it was that attitude that ultimately led them to victory.

What you describe at Thermopylae is a delaying action, and while it says good things about the soldiers left behind, you'll find greater heroism at Correigidor in 1941.

This a great thread for NS General. Let's make more like it.

Meh. Anyone who loses the most important battle of their life at the privy trench gets no props from me. Screw Napoleon.

Poles/Austrians Vs the Turks at Vienna gets my vote. Islam is at the door and a Pole, of all people, sends them packing.

And... What did they really have at Thermopolae? Swords... Shields... A mountain of dead Persians to fight on...? Fighting in the shade is for pussies.

Sleepy.

a) hmmm... sounds suspiciously like a Dave Barry band name comment...
b) thanks ;)


a/ reference is swooping over my head
b/ you're welcome ;)

a/ reference is swooping over my head
b/ you're welcome ;)

Dave Barry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Barry) is a US humor writer. One of his famous (tired?) schticks is to say that "blah-blah would be a great name for a rock band" for some random phrase in his writting.

I think that one of the most important battles from a Western view is the battle of the catauloninan(sp?) fields, fought in central France in 451C.E. There, Attila the Hun was defeated by Aetius, thus saving the Western Roman Empire from a complete Dark age, with all trace of Roman buildings, law, religion (by now Christianity) and culture entirely wiped out in Western Europe. Constantinople would not have been able to do a lot to save the west from annilhlation.

I think that one of the most important battles from a Western view is the battle of the catauloninan(sp?) fields, fought in central France in 451C.E. There, Attila the Hun was defeated by Aetius, thus saving the Western Roman Empire from a complete Dark age, with all trace of Roman buildings, law, religion (by now Christianity) and culture entirely wiped out in Western Europe. Constantinople would not have been able to do a lot to save the west from annilhlation.

There is no such thing as "C.E.".

As for saving Western Civilization....


well you can indeed argue that the Battle of Normandy (campaign from D-Day to Paris) saved Western European civilization from Nazism and Bolshevism in one swoop, eventually allowing democracy to spread throughout all Europe within two generations....assuming it lasts...


Or for actual preservation, the Battle of Chalon which stopped the expansion and destructive swath of Attila the Hun from crushing Roman civlization once and for all and making the Dark Ages all the darker.


In terms of most Epic Battle

On sea either Trafalger or Midway or Leyte Gulf

On land either Stalingrad, Kursk, Verdun, or Operation Bagration


In terms of most fascinating battle

Antietam or Gettysburg
Agincourt or Waterloo
Mons or the Marne

I think the Battle of Britain was extremely important. It prevented the German invasion of Britain & therefore allowed for the re-conquest of Western Europe later on.

Greatest battle?
If in terms of most important (of XX century), maybe Stalingrad or Kursk, also D-Day...

As a Pole, I'd like to add Polish victory over Bolshevics in 1920, which probably saved a big part of Europe from Communism (what an egocentric I am, yeah! :P )

Of all history, I have too big pile of great battles to choose one ;)

Two points and an aside...
1) Thermopylae wasn't the real turning point in that Persian invasion, it was actually the sea battle at Salamis which defeated the Persians and sent them back home,
2) The real import of Thermopylae was not in its strategic value but instead in its intrinsic value. It was an example to the people of the age showing what a few men dedicated to a cause can accomplish (Remember the Alamo!).

As an aside, Yes, the "300 Spartans" is an excellent flick and you sure gave away your age with that one. :-) Unfortunately I haven't seen it on TV in more years than I can count and can't find it on video anywhere. :-)

Psst amazon. ;)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001NBMDK/qid=1123803586/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-6276002-8870527?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846

As a Pole, I'd like to add Polish victory over Bolshevics in 1920, which probably saved a big part of Europe from Communism (what an egocentric I am, yeah! :P )

Heck yea!


The Battle of Warsaw (1920) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_%281920%29)

I don't even live in the Mother Land, but I agree! :)

The Battle of Warsaw was fought between 13 and 25 August, 1920, as Red Army forces commanded by Mikhail Tukhachevski approached the Polish capital of Warsaw and the nearby Modlin Fortress. On August 16 Polish forces commanded by Józef Piłsudski counter-attacked from the south, forcing the Russian forces into a disorganised withdrawal east, behind the Niemen River. Estimated Bolshevik losses were 10,000 killed, 500 missing and 10,000 wounded and 66,000 taken prisoner, compared to Polish losses of approximately 4,500 killed, 10,000 missing and 22,000 wounded.

Before the Miracle at the Vistula, both the Bolsheviks and the majority of foreign experts considered Poland to be on the verge of defeat. The stunning and unexpected Polish victory in the Battle of Warsaw crippled the Bolshevik forces. Over the coming months, several more Polish victories would secure Polish independence and eastern borders.

Today is the 2485th anniversary of the Battle of Thermopylae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae).

Was it as great as all that?

A demonstration of how nothing is ever impossible and how sheer willpower can influence history or change; even if it demands the ultimate sacrifice?

I don't think many more important symbolic battles have taken place.

Themopylae was perhaps the greatest moral and emotional battle in history. 300 Spartans, and a few hundred other Greeks, held up the entire combined Persian army of, realistically, only 80 thousand, compared to the accounts of over a million, or even as low as 250 thousand, for three days. The Spartans won all the glory because frankly they won the day. They were the last to remain at Thermopylae, and the last to die. Their efforts showed the Greeks that together, they could beat the Persians. And as for the Persian leadership, they realized that the Greeks were not as weak as they once supposed, that hope grew in Greece. Had Greece fallen, Western culture may have died with it. No one can underestimate the value Greek society gave to all of the West.

There were certainly "greater" battles, like Verdun or Stalingrad, but no single battle like Thermopylae decided the fate of an entire civilized part of the world with such epic force. Anyways. Enough of my rant. Sparta will always rule :)

There is no such thing as "C.E.".

Um, it's in fairly common use. Not everyone acknowledges Jesus Christ as the Lord. ("AD" = Anno Domini, or, in Latin, "in the year of the Lord.")

Also, I would agree with the assessment of the battle of Stalingrad as being one of the most symbolic of the 20th Century and iconic of the struggle of Soviet Russia against Nazi Germany.

Um, it's in fairly common use. Not everyone acknowledges Jesus Christ as the Lord. ("AD" = Anno Domini, or, in Latin, "in the year of the Lord.")

* Saying BCE "Before Common Era" still measures time the same as "BC -- Before Christ". Sure, you're taking out the "Christ" part, but you're still measuring time by HIM!

* Every world government ahears to the standard international date format of BC/AD. Yes, that includes Israel. While there are other calendar systems in use here and there, no official business is done in them on a global level (or usually even national).

* I'd have no trouble if you said year 3455 on the Jewish calendar. I'm just really against not calling a spade a spade.
(http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/ind...l?date=19970115)

In summation, look at http://www.religioustolerance.org/ce.htm for their take on it. I consider this the usual politically correct GARBAGE that is being forced upon society by an overly zealous left wing.
Perhaps if we all spent time BEING tolerant instead of talking about it, it wouldn't be neccesary.

I'm all for TOLERANCE. However, tolerance does not mean devolving into a 1984/Orwellian "doubleplusgood" language tempest. How would you feel if my religious group (all 3 of us) decided we were offended by the existence of the word "purple" and demanded it now be called "dark interwoven pink and blue" for the sake of being PC? Absurd? Open this Pandora's Box and there is no end to it.

BTW: There are many other calendars in use. A good place to see what day it is at: http://www.ecben.net/calendar.shtml . (Though it does have some broken links).

... I'm sorry, this is just nails across the chalkboard for me. I do not mean to offend anyone by this post.

The battle of the "Hot Gates" of Thermopylae was perhaps one of the greatest instances of valor in the history of warfare. The Spartans held off the Persians for a long time, causing many casualties and lots of time wasted for the invading Persians under Xerxes. Eventually, all the Spartans were killed, but it was more than worth it for Sparta and Sparta eventually won, thanks in a large part to the courage of the Spartans and their king.

Marchreich; ... this is a pet peeve of yours isn't it...

no matter it added nothing interesting to the thread.

* Saying BCE "Before Common Era" still measures time the same as "BC -- Before Christ". Sure, you're taking out the "Christ" part, but you're still measuring time by HIM!

* Every world government ahears to the standard international date format of BC/AD. Yes, that includes Israel. While there are other calendar systems in use here and there, no official business is done in them on a global level (or usually even national).

* I'd have no trouble if you said year 3455 on the Jewish calendar. I'm just really against not calling a spade a spade.
(http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/ind...l?date=19970115)

In summation, look at http://www.religioustolerance.org/ce.htm for their take on it. I consider this the usual politically correct GARBAGE that is being forced upon society by an overly zealous left wing.
Perhaps if we all spent time BEING tolerant instead of talking about it, it wouldn't be neccesary.

I'm all for TOLERANCE. However, tolerance does not mean devolving into a 1984/Orwellian "doubleplusgood" language tempest. How would you feel if my religious group (all 3 of us) decided we were offended by the existence of the word "purple" and demanded it now be called "dark interwoven pink and blue" for the sake of being PC? Absurd? Open this Pandora's Box and there is no end to it.

BTW: There are many other calendars in use. A good place to see what day it is at: http://www.ecben.net/calendar.shtml . (Though it does have some broken links).

... I'm sorry, this is just nails across the chalkboard for me. I do not mean to offend anyone by this post.

BCE/CE is pretty commonly used by historians, and has been for years. You're getting your panties in a bunch over nothing.

BCE/CE is pretty commonly used by historians, and has been for years. You're getting your panties in a bunch over nothing.

It's policitally correct and intellectually bankrupt garbage, and I have a right to fight it wherever I see it.

Marchreich; ... this is a pet peeve of yours isn't it...

no matter it added nothing interesting to the thread.

Yes.

True, it is a bit off topic. But if nothing else, its added a few posts. ;)