NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is the ugly truth, whether you want to believe it or not. George Bush does lie! But, heres the difference between me and others who say that. I see why he lies, I respect the reasoning behind it, and I see that he's not alone.
ALL politicians lie in these times when pollitical correctness outways what is right and just. Im pretty sure George Bush didn't really believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I think he knew war was inevitable before the Senate ever voted on it. And here's why. Political correctness has overwhelmed this world. If you say your scared to go to the ghetto, your a racist. If you say abortion is wrong, your a sexist. If you say you love your country, your blindly nationalist. And if you say that you see a building threat in the Middle East, your a warmonger.

If Bush could tell the truth, and get elected, he would have said that 9/11 was a wake up call to the world that there are alot of people in the Middle East that are a threat to our safety, and a threat to human decency. But if he'd said that, he'd have been labeled a racist, and would've lost the election by 20%.

Like I said, ALL politicians lie, whether it's because they believe their viewpoint will be misconstrued by the opposition, or because they realize that most people don't know the first thing about economics. Am I calling everyone stupid? No. I'm simply saying that unles you study economics, you aren't qualified to run anything greater than your own household.

In a region where woman are stoned for having sex, gays are executed for being gay, and reporters are beheaded for covering a story, its really a shame that politicians can't call a duck a duck, but its because everyone thinks they know it all. People need to quit pretending they know any more about world politics than they do about quantum physics, and then we'd get more honesty out of our politicians. Why do politicians lie? Because people are too egotistical for their own good!

Pretty fair assessment, I'm afraid. Politicians have to lie because the voting public are too stupid to deal with the realities of the world.

Pretty fair assessment, I'm afraid. Politicians have to lie because the voting public are too stupid to deal with the realities of the world.
Absolutely! Thanks for making it a long story short! ;)

Here is the ugly truth, whether you want to believe it or not. George Bush does lie! But, heres the difference between me and others who say that. I see why he lies, I respect the reasoning behind it, and I see that he's not alone. ALL politicians lie in these times when pollitical correctness outways what is right and just. Im pretty sure George Bush didn't really believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I think he knew war was inevitable before the Senate ever voted on it. And here's why. Political correctness has overwhelmed this world. If you say your scared to go to the ghetto, your a racist. If you say abortion is wrong, your a sexist. If you say you love your country, your blindly nationalist. And if you say that you see a building threat in the Middle East, your a warmonger. If Bush could tell the truth, and get elected, he would have said that 9/11 was a wake up call to the world that there are alot of people in the Middle East that are a threat to our safety, and a threat to human decency. But if he'd said that, he'd have been labeled a racist, and would've lost the election by 20%. Like I said, ALL politicians lie, whether it's because they believe their viewpoint will be misconstrued by the opposition, or because they realize that most people don't know the first thing about economics. Am I calling everyone stupid? No. I'm simply saying that unles you study economics, you aren't qualified to run anything greater than your own household. In a region where woman are stoned for having sex, gays are executed for being gay, and reporters are beheaded for covering a story, its really a shame that politicians can't call a duck a duck, but its because everyone thinks they know it all. People need to quit pretending they know any more about world politics than they do about quantum physics, and then we'd get more honesty out of our politicians. Why do politicians lie? Because people are to egotistical for their own good!

So..youre saying that becuase we might not know as much about politics as a politician, that its ok for that politician to lie everyday to the American people?

Bugger that.

Im not privvy to all the information that Bush might be, but I have no reason to lie about my actions, or my intentions.
The issue with Bush is, that his concerns are primarily NOT with the american people, but only a select few, and those happen to be rich and powerful.
Bush lies to you becuase he doesnt give two shits about you.

Pretty fair assessment, I'm afraid. Politicians have to lie because the voting public are too stupid to deal with the realities of the world.


Nope. Sorry thats bullshit.

How do we know what the "realities" of the world really, are if we have a leader who lies to us about them?

How are we supposed to make a choice, intelligent or stupid?

If I were president I'd tell the truth as much as possible, probably TOO much truth. My speeches would sound something like this:

"Alright sit down and shut the hell up. I have some shit to tell you. There might be some motherfuckers in the middle east who have weapons of mass destruction but our intelligence isn't exactly top notch, but I wanted to announce it to you all."

Or something like that.

Pretty fair assessment, I'm afraid. Politicians have to lie because the voting public are too stupid to deal with the realities of the world.

Yeah, politicians lying isn't anything new. But the extent to which they lie about things can be ridiculous. I agree that the vast majority of the public is not ready to handle all the information available to the government.

It's like Area 51: if people knew for sure about something that's been covered up so extensively like that, most of them would freak out.

If I were president I'd tell the truth as much as possible, probably TOO much truth. My speeches would sound something like this:

"Alright sit down and shut the hell up. I have some shit to tell you. There might be some motherfuckers in the middle east who have weapons of mass destruction but our intelligence isn't exactly top notch, but I wanted to announce it to you all."

Or something like that.
Although thats noble, that type of action wouldn't even get you voted into a school board, much less the Presidency, so I wouldn't be worried about it!

Nope. Sorry thats bullshit.

How do we know what the "realities" of the world really, are if we have a leader who lies to us about them?

How are we supposed to make a choice, intelligent or stupid?
The bottom line is that most people wouldn't be able to preocess all the info, and make an informed decision that is best for the country. Kinda like the mother of 6 who's top agenda would be more welfare, and the single guy who owns his own business, who just wants tax breaks. Basically, people only care about themselves, and have trouble looking at the "big picture".

The bottom line is that most people wouldn't be able to preocess all the info, and make an informed decision that is best for the country. Kinda like the mother of 6 who's top agenda would be more welfare, and the single guy who owns his own business, who just wants tax breaks. Basically, people only care about themselves, and have trouble looking at the "big picture".


So what your implying is that most people would be concerned more abut one issue, rather than whats best for everyone, overall?

So, you think invading Iraq was anything like that?

I dont think Bush intended anything like that, and doesnt care about the american people much at all.
I believe that the only concerns he has is for his "base", and thier money and power they can yeild.

If what you suggest were true, then we wouldnt have gone into a war against a nation that possesessed no WMD's and had no connections to terrorism.

People don't want to sacrifice for their country. why do you think enlistments are down thats why its hard to make desicions that are good for the nation when they are unpopular.

If what you suggest were true, then we wouldnt have gone into a war against a nation that possesessed no WMD's and had no connections to terrorism.
Did you miss the whole point of the post? You just proved my point! Thanks!

People don't want to sacrifice for their country. why do you think enlistments are down thats why its hard to make desicions that are good for the nation when they are unpopular.
Sad but true. My wife just joined the Air Force though. Everyone calls her crazy. I call her brave, and I'm proud to be her husband.

Did you miss the whole point of the post? You just proved my point! Thanks!


Im kind of wondering if you read your own post....I didnt see much of a point in it.

Im kind of wondering if you read your own post....I didnt see much of a point in it.
Again, you prove my point wonderfully! Thanks!

Again, you prove my point wonderfully! Thanks!


Now your being a childish douche.

Now your being a childish douche.
Keep it up, your adding weight to my point! You rock! I can see you saying that to some countrys president because he won't sign a trade deal with you! lol

Keep it up, your adding weight to my point! You rock!


Ok..your'e on a childish rant, with little or no actual content.
Youve made no actual arguement in your post other than to imply that a lying politician is something wich you approve of.

Furthermore, you also have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no interest, any discernable talent for debate.

All you are doing is pretending something I have said proves some seemingly well hidden "point" within the confines of your origianl post, wich was again, dubious, and offered little in the way of anything intelligent.

So, if your trying to prove what an ass you are being....then yes..Im doing that nicely for you arent I?

People don't want to sacrifice for their country. why do you think enlistments are down thats why its hard to make desicions that are good for the nation when they are unpopular.

Enlistments are down because people are wising up to the antics of their president. This isn't a war on terror, this is a war for money (read: oil). Bush doesn't give two shits about anyone overseas... I'd be surprised if he cared about more than 20 people on THIS side of the globe!

Ok..your'e on a childish rant, with little or no actual content.
Youve made no actual arguement in your post other than to imply that a lying politician is something wich you approve of.

Furthermore, you also have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no interest, any discernable talent for debate.

All you are doing is pretending something I have said proves some seemingly well hidden "point" within the confines of your origianl post, wich was again, dubious, and offered little in the way of anything intelligent.

So, if your trying to prove what an ass you are being....then yes..Im doing that nicely for you arent I?
What I'm saying is that politicians lie because alot of voters are dumb. Then you come along saying "Im kind of wondering if you read your own post....I didnt see much of a point in it." Instead of arguing the validity, you pretended there was no argument, making me think you have no response, and making you look kinda dumb. Thats all.

Good one, because the US is a wonderful thing that should be protected. Why? Because it is a democracy. So yes it is wonderful that in order to protect a democracy Bush has completely removed a necessary condition of democracy i.e. the ability to make an informed decision about one's leaders and cast a vote accordingly.

The only way to save democracy is to do away with it....brilliant! :confused:

Then, instead of coming up with a valid argument, you call me a douche? Where's the intelligence in that?

Good one, because the US is a wonderful thing that should be protected. Why? Because it is a democracy. So yes it is wonderful that in order to protect a democracy Bush has completely removed a necessary condition of democracy i.e. the ability to make an informed decision about one's leaders and cast a vote accordingly.

The only way to save democracy is to do away with it....brilliant! :confused:Theres another plague in politics. People seem to over simplify everything, like saying an entire country can be run like a company, or that democracy is a solve all, as long as everyone plays nice.

somebody name me a politician who is 100% honest, and I'll admit I'm wrong!

What I'm saying is that politicians lie because alot of voters are dumb. Then you come along saying "Im kind of wondering if you read your own post....I didnt see much of a point in it." Instead of arguing the validity, you pretended there was no argument, making me think you have no response, and making you look kinda dumb. Thats all.


As I said....the only point you made well enough for the casual reader, was that you approve lying politicians.
This is probably becuase your original post was one big paragraph, and a bit hard to read, although not the worst Ive seen.

As to your statements....voters, and thus many of the voting nation are dumb.
But dumb is a bit subjective.

Many people, as you say, may well focus on one issue, where a good politician will focus on many.

I dont think Bush did any of that.

I think he had a warmongering agenda, for personal profit, since before he came into office, and everything else, has been "blowing smoke up our asses" for two and a half years.

Then, instead of coming up with a valid argument, you call me a douche? Where's the intelligence in that?


When your screaming "Your proving my point! Your proving my point!" instead of actually making one.....I call em like I see em.

But in your last post, you did elaborate a bit further, so I retract the douche but, until the need for it rises again.

You know something Sick Dreams? You only used one side of your argument for the op, saying that the decision was made for the good of the country but the lies were to get it through.

Let us assume for the sake of fairness that your argument has a possibility. But on the other side of the coin, don't you think the lies might have been used to get an action to go through with this kind of reasoning:

"Hey, I'm the president. I want to screw over a bunch of people so me and my friends can get filthy rich on a lot of blood that I can make other people spill for me."

See, it goes both ways. How do you know which one is real if lies are so approved by you?

Sick Dreams lies because.... he's sick. It's in his name. Duh. Being a douche is an irrelevent side issue. Keep on the subject, Backwoods.

BackwoodsSquatches lies because he's just a filthy Squatch from the Backwoods. He don't know no better.

George Bush lies because he has Satan's arm up his ass.



I hope this clears things up. ;)

somebody name me a politician who is 100% honest, and I'll admit I'm wrong!


Politicians are people.
People sometimes lies.

The problem is when a politician lies more than he tells the truth.
Like Bush.

As I said....the only point you made well enough for the casual reader, was that you approve lying politicians.
This is probably becuase your original post was one big paragraph, and a bit hard to read, although not the worst Ive seen.

As to your statements....voters, and thus many of the voting nation are dumb.
But dumb is a bit subjective.

Many people, as you say, may well focus on one issue, where a good politician will focus on many.

I dont think Bush did any of that.

I think he had a warmongering agenda, for personal profit, since before he came into office, and everything else, has been "blowing smoke up our asses" for two and a half years. I wish you conspiracy theory people would supply some proof that Bush is getting rich from Iraq, or that he's even profiting at all. Because all I've seen Bush get from the war is flack. And when I say proof, I mean things that will ACTUALLLY prove it, not just some bullshit from a crazy website. And by the way, sorry about the one paragraph thing. I fixed it. That drives me nuts too!

BackwoodsSquatches lies because he's just a filthy Squatch from the Backwoods. He don't know no better.





I hope this clears things up. ;)


Amen, brother.

You know something Sick Dreams? You only used one side of your argument for the op, saying that the decision was made for the good of the country but the lies were to get it through.

Let us assume for the sake of fairness that your argument has a possibility. But on the other side of the coin, don't you think the lies might have been used to get an action to go through with this kind of reasoning:

"Hey, I'm the president. I want to screw over a bunch of people so me and my friends can get filthy rich on a lot of blood that I can make other people spill for me."

See, it goes both ways. How do you know which one is real if lies are so approved by you?
If you want to accuse Bush of starting a war for profit, get some real proof, because I'm done arguing that point with people who just accuse , and don't prove. He may have done it, who knows? But PROVE IT!

By the way, What is a Squatch?

I wish you conspiracy theory people would supply some proof that Bush is getting rich from Iraq, or that he's even profiting at all. Because all I've seen Bush get from the war is flack. And when I say proof, I mean things that will ACTUALLLY prove it, not just some bullshit from a crazy website. And by the way, sorry about the one paragraph thing. I fixed it. That drives me nuts too!

And how has going to war with Iraq done any of the things that Bush claims has been the goal all along? Stability in the Middle East? Making America safer? Or generally saying to the world "See? We can topple a crippled goverment with our shiny toys?\"

I wish you conspiracy theory people
Hang on, are you implying there are people who do not realise that conspiracies happen all the time? What is a conspiracy theory person, or a non-conspiracy theory person for that matter?
would supply some proof that Bush is getting rich from Iraq, or that he's even profiting at all. Because all I've seen Bush get from the war is flack. And when I say proof, I mean things that will ACTUALLLY prove it, not just some bullshit from a crazy website. And by the way, sorry about the one paragraph thing. I fixed it. That drives me nuts too!
Aha, I'll find it just as soon as you deliver proof that Bush's motives were both altruistic and not the result of irrationality or egoism.

By the way, What is a Squatch?


1. Short for Sasquatch, aka Bigfoot

2. How a drunk orders his 8th Scotch: Gimme anudder squatch an soda.

3. Elmer Fudd singing Ted Nugent: "Cat Squatch Feva"

If you want to accuse Bush of starting a war for profit, get some real proof, because I'm done arguing that point with people who just accuse , and don't prove. He may have done it, who knows? But PROVE IT!


Uhh..ok...

How about the fact the Haliburton was given all of the military supply contracts, and most of the recontruction contracts in Iraq, instead of offering them to Iraqi businesses, in order to stumulate the Iraqi economy?

And who used to be in charge of Haliburton??

and who has donated more money to Bushs campaigns than anyone else?
Enron!

and who was given control of Afghanistan?

Karzai!

Want to guess where he used to work?


In summation...

It is FACT that Haliburton and Big Oil, are profiting greatly from this conflict.
YOU can choose to ignore, it but its still true.

The bottom line is that most people wouldn't be able to preocess all the info, and make an informed decision that is best for the country. Kinda like the mother of 6 who's top agenda would be more welfare, and the single guy who owns his own business, who just wants tax breaks. Basically, people only care about themselves, and have trouble looking at the "big picture".
DUDE. You just blew my mind. But, like, what about infinity? That's like bigger than the universe.

1. Short for Sasquatch, aka Bigfoot

~DING!! DING!!~

2. How a drunk orders his 8th Scotch: Gimme anudder squatch an soda.

I'll take the soda...

3. Elmer Fudd singing Ted Nugent: "Cat Squatch Feva"


Funny.

But for associating me with Ted Nugent...I may have to poke you in the eye with a hot french fry.
Nothing personal I assure you.

Hang on, are you implying there are people who do not realise that conspiracies happen all the time? What is a conspiracy theory person, or a non-conspiracy theory person for that matter?

Aha, I'll find it just as soon as you deliver proof that Bush's motives were both altruistic and not the result of irrationality or egoism.
By "conspiricy theory people" I mean people who come up with their own version of EVERYTHING that happens, instead of relying on facts once in a while

Aha, I'll find it just as soon as you deliver proof that Bush's motives were both altruistic and not the result of irrationality or egoism. That goes back to the conspiricy theorys. When something happens, and someone gives an explanation (Bush), you take them at their word until you can PROVE otherwise. When you come up with alternatives without proof, its called a....................... YOU GOT IT, "CONSPIRICY THEORY" Hence the word "Theory"

Uhh..ok...

How about the fact the Haliburton was given all of the military supply contracts, and most of the recontruction contracts in Iraq, instead of offering them to Iraqi businesses, in order to stumulate the Iraqi economy?

And who used to be in charge of Haliburton??

and who has donated more money to Bushs campaigns than anyone else?
Enron!

and who was given control of Afghanistan?

Karzai!

Want to guess where he used to work?


In summation...

It is FACT that Haliburton and Big Oil, are profiting greatly from this conflict.
YOU can choose to ignore, it but its still true. For one, there were NO Iraqi companys with the capabilities to do what Halliburton could do. Secodnly, Enron was brought down, and I don't remember seeing Bush on any of the indictments. And while we originally put Karzai in power, we gave the people a chance to choose, and they chose him, so if you don't like that, take it up with the people of Aphganistan.

...
ALL politicians lie in these times when pollitical correctness outways what is right and just. Im pretty sure George Bush didn't really believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I think he knew war was inevitable before the Senate ever voted on it. And here's why. Political correctness has overwhelmed this world...And if you say that you see a building threat in the Middle East, your a warmonger.


Haven't you noticed that Iraq was not the building threat?

If you want to accuse Bush of starting a war for profit, get some real proof, because I'm done arguing that point with people who just accuse , and don't prove. He may have done it, who knows? But PROVE IT!


Well heres something.


This war is not about weapons of mass destruction, terrorism, or democracy, but the profits, power, and prestige of American capitalism. The major oil companies have already held secret negotiations over who gets the biggest slice of the oil pie after the war. "Off the record, some officials have even described Iraqi oil as the 'spoils of war.'" (NY Times, 2/21/03)

and you cant possibly imagine how this wouldnt relaye to Bush at all....?

Well heres something.




and you cant possibly imagine how this wouldnt relaye to Bush at all....?
HHMMMMM A quote without a name. Geez, you sure showed me!

For one, there were NO Iraqi companys with the capabilities to do what Halliburton could do.

False.

Many of the actual construction jobs involving rebuilding churches, schools, and power/oil/ electric lines were not even OFFERED to local Iraqi companies.
Instead they were given to Haliburton.



Secodnly, Enron was brought down, and I don't remember seeing Bush on any of the indictments.

You wont see Rove on any either.

But the man who was the CEO for Enron, was guilty of stealing millions of dollars from his own employees.
Guess who pardoned him?

His close personal friend, who he has donated more money into that mans election campaigns than anyone else.

Dubya.

You want me to keep going?

I got a while yet....

HHMMMMM A quote without a name. Geez, you sure showed me!


Im not trying to "show" you.

This isnt a competition....were not trying to screw the same cheerleader, so maybe you can knock off the attitude for a sec?

Remember that douche comment?
Your doing it again.

Just relax.

Im trying to make you open your mind a bit and accept that you may not have all the information about your president.

The article was in the New York Times.

I'm Canadian, so I don't know what it's like to live in the States...but this is how I see things...do we know everything about our fearless leaders?....no...as squeaky clean as the Canadian government seems to be, I'm sure that they have their secrets....but I don't think it matters WHO is in power, the government (Canada or USA) will ALWAYS have their dirty little secrets....I'm just thankful that I live in a country where I am free....it could always be worse...I don't put my head in the sand and pretend that there isn't a whole lot that I'm sure the government doesn't tell us...but, I'm also not going to live in fear and worry about what they aren't telling us....I'll leave that to all of the conspiracy-theorists out there.

By "conspiricy theory people" I mean people who come up with their own version of EVERYTHING that happens, instead of relying on facts once in a while
so it was just a matter of flinging insulting terminology around or do you actually believe that at least 2 people posting in this thread come up with their own versions of EVERYTHING and absolutely never rely on any facts?

That goes back to the conspiricy theorys. When something happens, and someone gives an explanation (Bush), you take them at their word until you can PROVE otherwise.
Hang on, so are you a conspiracy theorist, or can we take as proven that Bush's explanation has been proved false, because as I recall, it was you who asserted Bush's explanations (for going to war in Iraq) were lies.

When you come up with alternatives without proof, its called a....................... YOU GOT IT, "CONSPIRICY THEORY" Hence the word "Theory"
I'm still not getting where you are coming from. Either you are a conspiracy theorist (because you are coming up with a theory that Bush lied when it has not been proven), or there is no justification whatsoever for accusing those who are not taking Bush at his word of being conspiracy theorists, since it has been proven that his explanations cannot be taken at their word...

So which is it

Bush may or may not have lied, it has not been proven and you are a conspiracy theorist because you are not taking his explanation at his word

It has been proven that Bush lied so your accusations that those who disbelieve his lies are conspiracy theorist is just you calling names

it is possible to doubt a known liers word and not be a conspiracy theorist in the sense of being someone who always comes up with their own theory and never ever relies on facts

or you are partisan and will say anything to appear as though you are right and those who disagree are crazy conspiracy loons?

I wish you conspiracy theory people would supply some proof that Bush is getting rich from Iraq, or that he's even profiting at all. Because all I've seen Bush get from the war is flack. And when I say proof, I mean things that will ACTUALLLY prove it, not just some bullshit from a crazy website. And by the way, sorry about the one paragraph thing. I fixed it. That drives me nuts too!

When Bush was Governor of Texas, him and his freinds from Halliburton ect. (ie, his whole freaking cabinet) met with the Saudis to discuss building a pipeline from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan, but it had to go through Iraq. Does the names of these countries sound familar?

Well, 9/11 was like a blessing in disguise for Bush & Co.

And like Hitler, Bush used the common problems of the country to fuel his desires and get the public angry. Hitler is to Jews as Bush is to Arabs.

Thus, we have Afghanistan. After the control of Afghanistan is complete they have one piece of the puzzle.

Then Bush pulled the strings and went into Iraq. After taking control of easten Iraq, a pipeline going from Saudi Arabia through Iraq and into Afghanistan magicly appears.

Hmmm, and we come full circle.

Well, technically, we ALL lie at one time or another.

Well, technically, we ALL lie at one time or another.


Correct.

But its the frequency of those lies that is the real defining issue.

Correct.

But its the frequency of those lies that is the real defining issue.
And the consequences of those lies. My lies do not endanger anyone.

And the consequences of those lies. My lies do not endanger anyone.


Agreed.

Lying about your age, or your weight, is fairly harmless.

Lying about your reasons for invading a soveriegn nation, against the will of the U.N, and then claiming a U.N resolution as the reason ...is much worse.

I believe the American populace expects and welcomes our polititians lying to us. We just don't like it when it's an *obvious* lie.

I believe the American populace expects and welcomes our polititians lying to us. We just don't like it when it's an *obvious* lie.


All of us expect it..about half of us dont seem to mind so much.

When I found out that Bill Clinton lied about getting blown by a fat chick, my soul screamed in horror and rage.

So... when I realized that Bush was lying about WMDs to justify the invasion of another country, I thought: I hope he's not screwing around on Laura.

You must also realised that he they may lie and yes they have reasons to but they should be more open with information we dont need to know everything but tell us what we need to know if you have a good reason for something tell us something dont just ignore us because we wont do anything about that is true i bet not many of you have openly stated your opions and stop waiting for somebody eles to.

When Bush was Governor of Texas, him and his freinds from Halliburton ect. (ie, his whole freaking cabinet) met with the Saudis to discuss building a pipeline from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan, but it had to go through Iraq. Does the names of these countries sound familar?.

US companies had talks with the taliban about building a pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan. Because a lot of money would have gone to the taliban, it looked as if the deal could be closed. In the end, however, because the taliban felt bullied and didn't trust the oil companies, the deal fell through. This happened shortly before 9/11. Among the companies who would directly have profited from the pipeline was Enron (strange how always the same names pop up). Unfortunately for these companies, the situation in Afghanistan and Iraq is so unstable that it won't be built for the foreseeable future.

And like Hitler, Bush used the common problems of the country to fuel his desires and get the public angry. Hitler is to Jews as Bush is to Arabs.
I think Bush is a dangerous twat, but it is comments like this that make my skin crawl. Read your history books. What Bush does to Arabs is nothing compared to what Hitler did to Jews.

Here is the ugly truth, whether you want to believe it or not. George Bush does lie! But, heres the difference between me and others who say that. I see why he lies, I respect the reasoning behind it, and I see that he's not alone.
ALL politicians lie in these times when pollitical correctness outways what is right and just. Im pretty sure George Bush didn't really believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I think he knew war was inevitable before the Senate ever voted on it. And here's why. Political correctness has overwhelmed this world. If you say your scared to go to the ghetto, your a racist. If you say abortion is wrong, your a sexist. If you say you love your country, your blindly nationalist. And if you say that you see a building threat in the Middle East, your a warmonger.

If Bush could tell the truth, and get elected, he would have said that 9/11 was a wake up call to the world that there are alot of people in the Middle East that are a threat to our safety, and a threat to human decency. But if he'd said that, he'd have been labeled a racist, and would've lost the election by 20%.

Like I said, ALL politicians lie, whether it's because they believe their viewpoint will be misconstrued by the opposition, or because they realize that most people don't know the first thing about economics. Am I calling everyone stupid? No. I'm simply saying that unles you study economics, you aren't qualified to run anything greater than your own household.

In a region where woman are stoned for having sex, gays are executed for being gay, and reporters are beheaded for covering a story, its really a shame that politicians can't call a duck a duck, but its because everyone thinks they know it all. People need to quit pretending they know any more about world politics than they do about quantum physics, and then we'd get more honesty out of our politicians. Why do politicians lie? Because people are too egotistical for their own good!

God Bless you SD. You have just moved to #7 on my top ten hero's list.

God Bless you SD. You have just moved to #7 on my top ten hero's list.
Really? AAAWWWWWWWWWWW ( a tear runs down my cheek)

Today a politicians lie seems justified because that is there occupation. No longer to suggest ideas to a nation, but to be the mend tending too a coup of enraged chickens. A coup that locks away to sane with those mentaly incapable of accepting truths of the world. That sometimes principals come before wallets, sometimes unpopular is not right or wrong, and that sometimes politicians should remember they are working for us.

Really? AAAWWWWWWWWWWW ( a tear runs down my cheek)

good insight, and not too many people actually think before they speak. A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is the ugly truth, whether you want to believe it or not...*snips*...I'm simply saying that unles you study economics, you aren't qualified to run anything greater than your own household.
Which tends to disqualify Bush right off the bat.

he lies cos he knows better than what we do.....

God! If I were a politician, they would probably shoot my ass! I would stay so pissed off at Congress that they would never get to adjourn! Hehehe!

God! If I were a politician, they would probably shoot my ass! I would stay so pissed off at Congress that they would never get to adjourn! Hehehe!


oh my gos you are so amusing...have you ever tried stand up rather than politics ?

ALL politicians lie in these times when pollitical correctness outways what is right and just. Im pretty sure George Bush didn't really believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I think he knew war was inevitable before the Senate ever voted on it. And here's why. Political correctness has overwhelmed this world. If you say your scared to go to the ghetto, your a racist. If you say abortion is wrong, your a sexist. If you say you love your country, your blindly nationalist. And if you say that you see a building threat in the Middle East, your a warmonger. ...and if you say you don't love your country, you're a "traitor" or "the enemy".

In a region where woman are stoned for having sex, gays are executed for being gay, and reporters are beheaded for covering a story, its really a shame that politicians can't call a duck a duck, but its because everyone thinks they know it all. People need to quit pretending they know any more about world politics than they do about quantum physics, and then we'd get more honesty out of our politicians. Why do politicians lie? Because people are too egotistical for their own good!Damn straight! I wish Bush would finally start calling a duck a duck. There's probably more of the shit you named going on in Saudi Arabia than in Iraq, especially the stoning and homophobia. If that's your reasoning why we went into Iraq, then we still went for the wrong country.

Goddamn some of you people are ignorant....go and watch Fahrenheit 9/11 by Michael Moore and you'll get your explantation.

Goddamn some of you people are ignorant....go and watch Fahrenheit 9/11 by Michael Moore and you'll get your explantation.F 9/11 isn't exactly unbiased. It doesn't show the suffering of parts of the population, for instance. It's like a liberal version of Fox news.

If Michael Moore doesn't float your boat, try reading Noam Chomsky's "Hegemony or Survival" The facts are there if you're willing.

If Michael Moore doesn't float your boat, try reading Noam Chomsky's "Hegemony or Survival" The facts are there if you're willing.The facts are in 9/11 too, it's just difficult to pick them all out.

If I were president I'd tell the truth as much as possible, probably TOO much truth. My speeches would sound something like this:

"Alright sit down and shut the hell up. I have some shit to tell you. There might be some motherfuckers in the middle east who have weapons of mass destruction but our intelligence isn't exactly top notch, but I wanted to announce it to you all."

Or something like that.


How about -- "This place is going down the tubes. Just thought you'd like to know. Have a nice day!"

The problem really isn't lying politicians. The problem is complacent, willfully ignorant citizens with the mindset "oh, they're politicians, they always lie, there's nothing we can do about it."

Personally, I think that the moment any civil servant lies in the execution of their duties, they should be torn apart by a raging mob of irate citizens, and the pieces of their shredded body should be fed to sea gulls.

But that's just my opinion. :D

i didn't read all that, but here's statement:
the news is vague. television is vague. information is vague.

most of the time, at least

i didn't read all that, but here's statement:
the news is vague. television is vague. information is vague.
Piffle. Your post is vague.

I'll be brief

Two of the most successful Republicans I know (the kind most Republicans admire who started off with an average family that didn't make a ton of money and built up their own businesses to where they were very well off financially - so I assume you won't think these guys are stupid in a political or economic sense as you say the majority of Americans are) one my boss and another my best friends boyfriend.

They have both told me that they know the President is lying about the reasons for war and they dont care and agree with his actions; here's where I think these Republicans are being much more honest than you are Sick Dreams. They believe it's for the oil and not to help liberate anyone.

They think that the US should do whatever it takes to any country to keep ourselves the strongest economically and militarily even it it means lying and running roughshod over anyone that gets in our way. They know I disagree with actions like that but I respect them for being honest about it.

Frankly I am disgusted by such a viewpoint and have argued alternative ideas with them and don't feel I have ever gotten adequate refutations to my proposals. I still think of them as friends though. In conclusion, I can appreciate someones point of view not being politically correct if they are telling the truth (though I may not agree with what they are saying if it goes against my personal priciples). I can't appreciate sending my friends and family off to die in a war that is based on lies.

Now let me ask you Sick Dreams. Are you being fully honest with us? I assumed above that you weren't but I could be wrong. Do you really think it was to liberate Iraq? Honestly, I don't and neither do any of the people I personally know (of any political leaning - except for the politically apathetics).

Shit that wasn't brief at all... ooops guess I'm a liar too.

Shit that wasn't brief at all... ooops guess I'm a liar too.Which of course makes your whole previous post moot :p

Which of course makes your whole previous post moot :p


*pouts* shut up or Sick Dreams won't read it. :p

*pouts* shut up or Sick Dreams won't read it. :pTo be honest, I don't think he'll read it anyway...

To be honest, I don't think he'll read it anyway...

I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt and hope for a reasonable response, if I get a response at all.

Yes, Bush is a liar. Though not a very good public liar, he is still a liar.

I mean, look at the Bush Memo's thing. He ignores all Intel,and goes to war with Iraq. Finding no evidence of WMDs, he blames the CIA for bad intelligence.

When I found out that Bill Clinton lied about getting blown by a fat chick, my soul screamed in horror and rage.

So... when I realized that Bush was lying about WMDs to justify the invasion of another country, I thought: I hope he's not screwing around on Laura.

lmao!

A certain quote comes to mind here, seemed very appropriate...

"The rulers of the States are the only ones who should have the privilege of lying" - Plato

So..youre saying that becuase we might not know as much about politics as a politician, that its ok for that politician to lie everyday to the American people?

Bugger that.

Im not privvy to all the information that Bush might be, but I have no reason to lie about my actions, or my intentions.
The issue with Bush is, that his concerns are primarily NOT with the american people, but only a select few, and those happen to be rich and powerful.
Bush lies to you becuase he doesnt give two shits about you.

as opposed to what American politician before him?

Bush probably cares somewhat about the people, but come on... aside from Jesus and maybe Gandhi, who has ever really been able to care about anyone he doesn't know?

Gartref

You assume that Bush knew that Saddam's WMDs weren't in Iraq (they're somewhere... either Iraq -- we can't have searched the entire country -- or maybe Syria).

Because... knowledge of truth is a prerequisite for a lie.

If he didn't know, then

(drumroll please)

HE DIDN'T LIE ABOUT WMDs

Now let me ask you Sick Dreams. Are you being fully honest with us? I assumed above that you weren't but I could be wrong. Do you really think it was to liberate Iraq? Honestly, I don't and neither do any of the people I personally know (of any political leaning - except for the politically apathetics).
I never said it was just to liberate them. I said that they see the entire middle east as a violent, dangerous, stoneaged, part of the world that has to be dealt with. I think Iraq is just the first step of many. And as far as everyone saying "your sending people off to die" ,thats bullshit. Nobody drafted them. Did they think they could just float through, get free medical, free housing, free food, free educations, free training, and not have to work for it? When's the last time you heard a firefighter bitch about having to go into a burning building? Most of the military people I know consider it an honor to do their job, and most that have been to Iraq have seen how fucked up it is, and realize how dangerous it would be to just leave it alone. Its a growing hornets nest, and if people have to lie to those of you too naive to see that, well then so be it!

Heres a tip for people. If you don't want a dangerous job, become a librarian.

Whether we like it or not, some information about how the world at large can -not- be told to the average American citizen. Whether it's because of fear for mass histeria or some other concerns, we can't be told everything.

Ask the CEO of ((almost)) any company, and you'll get a similiar statement. They can't tell all their employees everything that goes on with the company.

And because we don't have all the facts, this is why we are supposed to let the -president- (or the CEO) make the important choices. They have all the facts (most of the time), so they are the most qualified to make such choices.

Voting shouldn't be based on what a politician says they will or will not do, it should be based solely on the character of the politician and whether you agree with them morally and politically.

The fact that people are too stupid to see these facts (in general) is the reason why I think democracy and unions are utterly stupid.

As my nation's motto states, "People are idiots."

And something that lets people in general make the major choices is completely stupid.

I never saiit was just to liberate them. I said that they see the entire middle east as a violent, dangerous part of the world that has to be dealt with. I think Iraq is just the first step of many. And as far as everyone saying "your sendind people off to die" ,thats bullshit. Nobody drafted them. Did they think they could just float through, get free medical, free housing, free food, free educations, free training, and not have to work for it? When's the last time you heard a firefighter bitch about having to go into a burning building? Most of the military people I know consider it an honor to do their job, whether they believe in the war or not.

Heres a tip for people. If you don't want a dangerous job, become a librarian.


My mistake, sorry. I thought you were saying people were in aweful conditions and we were there to liberate them from it. But really you are saying that we just want to get rid of govt's we see as being potentially dangerous to the US by either breeding terrorism or not being effeictive in getting rid of terrorists right?

Anyway, I know people join the militaryt to serve their country. What I said is not bullshit though, and that was I thinks its FUBAR to send my friends and family off to die in a war OVER LIES! Lies that you yourself acknowledge. Although I truely think it was about oil and you think somethign else.

What about the part of my post you didn't quote though. Do you have anything to say about that?

Let me take it a little further. Do you only not care if Republican Presidents send our friends and families aff to war for lies or it wouldnt matter which President did it in your eyes (I know you are all for lying but I would like an honest response if you are capable of giving it)? Why do you even care what any president does? Or do you? Does it matter which President is in office? Are you content with letting whomever gets voted into office do whatever they want and lie about it without repercussions, since they obviously know much more than you do about economics and what our country is dealing with as a whole? Do you really think that your personal critisizms are completely unfounded no matter what the president does?

(I know you are all for lying but I would like an honest response if you are capable of giving it)?
I have stated that politicians lie. I never said that I do, and when people accuse me of it, I generally discontinue any conversation I'm having with them, so go say I have no answers, but when you accuse me of lying, i quit speaking to you.

I have stated that politicians lie. I never said that I do, and when people accuse me of it, I generally discontinue any conversation I'm having with them, so go say I have no answers, but when you accuse me of lying, i quit speaking to you.


Uh huh, so I guess those questions were either too hard for you to answer honestly or they would make you look like a hypocrite if you did answer honestly.

My mistake, sorry. I thought you were saying people were in aweful conditions and we were there to liberate them from it. But really you are saying that we just want to get rid of govt's we see as being potentially dangerous to the US by either breeding terrorism or not being effeictive in getting rid of terrorists right?

Anyway, I know people join the militaryt to serve their country. What I said is not bullshit though, and that was I thinks its FUBAR to send my friends and family off to die in a war OVER LIES! Lies that you yourself acknowledge. Although I truely think it was about oil and you think somethign else.

What about the part of my post you didn't quote though. Do you have anything to say about that?

Let me take it a little further. Do you only not care if Republican Presidents send our friends and families aff to war for lies or it wouldnt matter which President did it in your eyes (I know you are all for lying but I would like an honest response if you are capable of giving it)? Why do you even care what any president does? Or do you? Does it matter which President is in office? Are you content with letting whomever gets voted into office do whatever they want and lie about it without repercussions, since they obviously know much more than you do about economics and what our country is dealing with as a whole? Do you really think that your personal critisizms are completely unfounded no matter what the president does?
Ok, where to start?
What I'm saying is that we went over their to kill a bunch of crazy, subhuman fucks. And we did it for numerous reasons. 1) They pose a threat, now or later, to the U.S. 2) They pose a threat to their own people 3) They pose a threat to others on the planet. You don't always have to things for one reason or another. You can do it for both, ya know!
Do I care which President sends us to war? NO War is a necessary evil in this world, and if it needs to be done, so be it. Their are lots of crazys out there. Someones gotta take care of them!

Do I think criticism is unfounded? NO I think criticism is key to democracy, but criticism that doesn't do any good just makes us (critics included) look dumb to the rest of the world, no matter how right you think you are. do you REALLY believe that if you bitch loud enough, we will end the war? Or do you do it just because you are mad? Because all bitching about the war does at this point is make us look weak, it won't change ANYTHING. To think so would be naive, and childish. If everyone opposed to the war would at least ATTEMPT to support us winning it, we would be out sooner, which seems to be what you want in the first place. Saying "bring the troops home now" is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Do you really think the terrorists would leave us alone? Again, if you do, you are naive.

When I found out that Bill Clinton lied about getting blown by a fat chick, my soul screamed in horror and rage.

So... when I realized that Bush was lying about WMDs to justify the invasion of another country, I thought: I hope he's not screwing around on Laura.

I literally just laughed out loud. Now all of the people in my office think I'm even more nuts than they used to. :fluffle:

Ok, where to start?
What I'm saying is that we went over their to kill a bunch of crazy, subhuman fucks. And we did it for numerous reasons. 1) They pose a threat, now or later, to the U.S. 2) They pose a threat to their own people 3) They pose a threat to others on the planet. You don't always have to things for one reason or another. You can do it for both, ya know!
Do I care which President sends us to war? NO War is a necessary evil in this world, and if it needs to be done, so be it. Their are lots of crazys out there. Someones gotta take care of them!

Do I think criticism is unfounded? NO I think criticism is key to democracy, but criticism that doesn't do any good just makes us (critics included) look dumb to the rest of the world, no matter how right you think you are. do you REALLY believe that if you bitch loud enough, we will end the war? Or do you do it just because you are mad? Because all bitching about the war does at this point is make us look weak, it won't change ANYTHING. To think so would be naive, and childish.

So the President lies for who knows what reason (we all claim to know the hidden reason but without proof we are just guessing). You claim to know the reason, but I wonder how you came to this conclusion. Furthermore the lies must always be okay to tell because they run the country so they must know all there is to know about fixing the worlds ills (Not even if the leaders lies causes tens of thousands of deaths), which is why after all the US has done for the world (or to the world) we live in a utopia.

You think critisizm isn't unfounded but it makes us look like idiots to the rest of the world (even though the rest of the world is looking at the US actions and wonders why the hell we aren't kicking Bush out of office), plus it's pointless to protest because it won't change anything (even though it is widely accepted that the unpopularity of the Vietnam war with the population and dissention within the ranks because they didn't believe they were there doing the right thing is was eventually made us pull out).

Sorry for saying that you would be okay with lying btw.

Sorry for saying that you would be okay with lying btw.
No worries. Sorry I got so bent outta shape about it! ;)

So the President lies for who knows what reason (we all claim to know the hidden reason but without proof we are just guessing). You claim to know the reason, but I wonder how you came to this conclusion. Furthermore the lies must always be okay to tell because they run the country so they must know all there is to know about fixing the worlds ills (Not even if the leaders lies causes tens of thousands of deaths), which is why after all the US has done for the world (or to the world) we live in a utopia.

You think critisizm isn't unfounded but it makes us look like idiots to the rest of the world (even though the rest of the world is looking at the US actions and wonders why the hell we aren't kicking Bush out of office), plus it's pointless to protest because it won't change anything (even though it is widely accepted that the unpopularity of the Vietnam war with the population and dissention within the ranks because they didn't believe they were there doing the right thing is was eventually made us pull out).

Sorry for saying that you would be okay with lying btw.
First, let me say that my reasonings can't be proved and I may be wrong about why politicians lie. Just my informed opinion.

As for critisism, I agree with you about Vietnam, but I think it was a big mistake to leave Vietnam. I will admit that we needed to revamp our strategies, but we left the Vietnamese high and dry when we cut out, and made ourselves look foolish, when we could have just changed our tactics. But the protesters won, we left, the people got screwed over there, and we looked like a bunch of weak jackass's. As for Iraq, I don't see ANY possibilities of us leaving, no matter how popular, so if people would quit saying "pull out now" and start saying "kick their ass quick, so we can pull out", maybe the terrorists wouldn't be so emboldened, and maybe they wouldn't believe they could win, which may just save more lives than anything!

Just a thought.

Here is the ugly truth, whether you want to believe it or not. George Bush does lie! But, heres the difference between me and others who say that. I see why he lies, I respect the reasoning behind it, and I see that he's not alone.
ALL politicians lie in these times when pollitical correctness outways what is right and just. Im pretty sure George Bush didn't really believe Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I think he knew war was inevitable before the Senate ever voted on it. And here's why. Political correctness has overwhelmed this world. If you say your scared to go to the ghetto, your a racist. If you say abortion is wrong, your a sexist. If you say you love your country, your blindly nationalist. And if you say that you see a building threat in the Middle East, your a warmonger.

If Bush could tell the truth, and get elected, he would have said that 9/11 was a wake up call to the world that there are alot of people in the Middle East that are a threat to our safety, and a threat to human decency. But if he'd said that, he'd have been labeled a racist, and would've lost the election by 20%.

Like I said, ALL politicians lie, whether it's because they believe their viewpoint will be misconstrued by the opposition, or because they realize that most people don't know the first thing about economics. Am I calling everyone stupid? No. I'm simply saying that unles you study economics, you aren't qualified to run anything greater than your own household.

In a region where woman are stoned for having sex, gays are executed for being gay, and reporters are beheaded for covering a story, its really a shame that politicians can't call a duck a duck, but its because everyone thinks they know it all. People need to quit pretending they know any more about world politics than they do about quantum physics, and then we'd get more honesty out of our politicians. Why do politicians lie? Because people are too egotistical for their own good!

A real politician knows that he can't get full support for anything, and to get what he can he must present it in its best light. They don't think of it as lying. They would be shocked to be called a liar.

In fact, when it comes down to allegations where they might lie they are remarkably clever in the use of semantics - not to single him out, but Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman" is an example. They will tell you that they strive for honesty.

They use synonyms for lying, and feel they are completely justified:

"Appeal to the base"
"Spin"
"Present the information in its best light"
"Get support"

But never "mislead the American public". Is it pathological lying (as it appears to the non-politician) or a requirement for the job? Can the job even get done by a person of real integrity? Could Ross Perot have done the job (I use him not as an example of integrity, but rather as a non-player - a man who stated he would not compromise with politicians)?

In the final analysis the responsibility belongs to the voter.

A real politician knows that he can't get full support for anything, and to get what he can he must present it in its best light. They don't think of it as lying. They would be shocked to be called a liar.

In fact, when it comes down to allegations where they might lie they are remarkably clever in the use of semantics - not to single him out, but Clinton's "I did not have sex with that woman" is an example. They will tell you that they strive for honesty.

They use synonyms for lying, and feel they are completely justified:

"Appeal to the base"
"Spin"
"Present the information in its best light"
"Get support"

But never "mislead the American public". Is it pathological lying (as it appears to the non-politician) or a requirement for the job? Can the job even get done by a person of real integrity? Could Ross Perot have done the job (I use him not as an example of integrity, but rather as a non-player - a man who stated he would not compromise with politicians)?

In the final analysis the responsibility belongs to the voter.

Unless perhaps there is vote tampering (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437429)

If Bush went to the American people and said 9/11 changed everything about the way we need to handle threats to our national security. People would probably agree with that. If Bush went to the American people and said the Middle East has become a hotbed of extremist views against the West and specifically the United States due to failed foreign policy over the past 30 years. Some people might agree with that assessment, of course, others would still call him an idiot simply because he hasn't travelled to the Middle East (early in his first term he had barely travelled the world) and is just listening to the likes of one of his advisors (because Bush could NEVER make up his own mind) or is just concerned about oil (which isn't simplistic at all) -- that's what SOME might say. If Bush went to the American people and said while Iraq is a threat to our country, there are far graver threats out there, such as Iran and South Korea (the two other Axis' of Evil, remember). I believe that Iraq is the weaker of these threats and should be dealt with immediately because of our history with Iran would pose greater challenges and South Korea might have 1'000'000 Chinese flood the border if we aren't careful. I don't know what people would say to that, they'd still probably call him a liar, a warmonger, and just trying to finish what his father started. Who knows? The time we live in right now goes off the assumption that all politicians are liars (thank you mom and dad). However, Bush has done a damn good job at keeping his campaign promises, on top of that, and people seem to agree with this, he means what he says and does it. To me, Bush has been one of the most honest politicians (though he still is a politician at heart) in recent history. The American people have come so accustom to believing that every politician is a liar, that when you get a politician who doesn't lie -- you call him a liar. They don't even give him a chance (that sounds familiar). The position of the presidency is also meant to reflect the majority of the population; a nice cross section of what we believe, think, and feel. I think this is true of Bush. Government is built for the people and by the people, remember? So if you are unhappy with the government or its policies, try and change them, but I see it more as a problem with the people and not the government. What to change government, change the people.

Unless perhaps there is vote tampering (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437429)

Yeah, that too. I'm not suggesting that their isn't downright dirty politics, extortion, cheating, vote-buying, etc. There is always risk.

The OP suggests that expediency, unaware voters, and a 'the end justifies the means' mentality are the cause of lying - not cold-blooded dishonesty. In the end, it's up to the voters and the media. One to bring up the facts and the other to act on them. Too many of the public aren't willing to do the housekeeping of democracy. There's the problem, more so than the dishonest politician.

First, let me say that my reasonings can't be proved and I may be wrong about why politicians lie. Just my informed opinion.

As for critisism, I agree with you about Vietnam, but I think it was a big mistake to leave Vietnam. I will admit that we needed to revamp our strategies, but we left the Vietnamese high and dry when we cut out, and made ourselves look foolish, when we could have just changed our tactics. But the protesters won, we left, the people got screwed over there, and we looked like a bunch of weak jackass's. As for Iraq, I don't see ANY possibilities of us leaving, no matter how popular, so if people would quit saying "pull out now" and start saying "kick their ass quick, so we can pull out", maybe the terrorists wouldn't be so emboldened, and maybe they wouldn't believe they could win, which may just save more lives than anything!

Just a thought.
Vietnam, was France's mess. Actually, I think we should have supported Ho Chi Mien because he ran operations rescuing american pilots. He wanted our support, instead, we thought having France in Nato was more important.

The whole point of this thread is ridiculous. Politicians lie because it is for our own good?

The whole point of this thread is ridiculous. Politicians lie because it is for our own good?

Sounds better than if they were doing it for their own good. Has a nicer ring to it.

Sounds better than if they were doing it for their own good. Has a nicer ring to it.
I guess you say what you have to so that you can get your eight hours.

Gartref

You assume that Bush knew that Saddam's WMDs weren't in Iraq (they're somewhere... either Iraq -- we can't have searched the entire country -- or maybe Syria).

Because... knowledge of truth is a prerequisite for a lie.

If he didn't know, then

(drumroll please)

HE DIDN'T LIE ABOUT WMDs
so you think bush IS fooling around on laura??

I knew that there were no WMD's in Iraq. I read it on a fortune cookie in 2002. On the back it told me how to say the word "oil" in Chinese. True story.

So then why did we even enter Iraq in the first place if we "weren't sure if they were in Iraq. Could it be because George Bush was just trying to finish what his father couldn't do?

So then why did we even enter Iraq in the first place if we "weren't sure if they were in Iraq. Could it be because George Bush was just trying to finish what his father couldn't do?
Quite possibly, after reading a lot about the Bush family. But I'm sure that's not the only reason. It's more due to wishes of the PNAC than anything else.

Believe it or not… I’m sure it’s hard for the average American to differentiate a lie from the truth. American, at least most of Americans, don’t care about really understanding politics, therefore are incredibly susceptive to propaganda and psychological warfare. The only real weapon against all that is education. Sometimes the average Joe or Jane can tell you all the people that won on all the Survivors or American Idols but hesitates or flat out doesn’t know who their newly elected state representatives are (unless of course they appear on the TV screen on a reality show or are talked about on E!). Education is there, because Americans aren’t completely stupid people. If they have the capacity to absorb all that pop culture I’m sure they can absorb political theories, history and debates. Americans are bombared with an incredibly large amount of “noise” that is created by people that have an understanding of what rhetoric they need to use so that people will tune in. Intellectually, Americans probably have the hardest job because we need to filter so much “noise” in our minds that sometimes we just give in and few of our brain cells are used for productive questioning of current policies. Plus Americans are one of the most individualistic cultures in the world and among the most collectively paranoid ones (what I consider a bad combination). All those things (and many others) combined makes our country one of the biggest threat to world peace, (if we don’t do something about it). Unless Americans wise up, unless Americans take an interest in politics and for that matter in getting a good well rounded balanced education then… we are heading to a future that will hit the population like an unexpected bunch of bricks. We need to take charge of our future… it’s not a republican or democrat situation… it’s an American situation! And we need to do away with our bickering, educate ourselves and take an interest in the things that are affecting us like politics, science and an overall good education. Debate is healthy but good debate not idiotic partisan bickering.

Bush probably cares somewhat about the people, but come on... aside from Jesus and maybe Gandhi, who has ever really been able to care about anyone he doesn't know?

Oh, there are some of us out here. Just not nearly enough.

As to the whole point of this issue... if a politician has to lie about his views, opinions and motives to get elected, then the politician the people get isn't the one they thought they were getting. It would be like ordering a burger and, when you're given a salad instead, being told 'We knew people would prefer burgers, so we called our salad a burger'. You wouldn't be too happy with that.

The point is, it's at that point that representation of the people falls apart. If they can't trust their elected representatives, they no longer have control over what their country does. Can this be seen as a good thing? Is politicians doing what's best for the country, regardless of what the people want, a good thing? Sounds like a dictatorship to me.

Am I saying the US is a dictatorship? No. I don't think it is, although I may be mistaken. Am I saying that electing people on principles that they discard when they don't need them to get elected any more is a possible route /to/ a dictatorship? Yes. Does the same apply for lying about the reasons for their actions? I'd say it's closer to being a step on the way to the previous point.

Is there anything we can do about this? Yes, but you wouldn't like it. It involves electing people who don't want to be elected, or even who don't /know/ they're being elected.