NationStates Jolt Archive

For parents, and parents-to-be-one-day, I thought it would be nice to come together and discuss various philosophies and realities of childrearing. By that I mean, it's nice (I'd even say essential) to have an underlying philosophy as to how you want to raise your children, but sometimes your expectations are a little out of step with the reality of the situation.

Anyway, what things do you think are key in the long process of raising children? What practical tips do you have for others (including things to avoid)?

No one on NS right now has kids or ever wants to? Or even wants to tell other people how they should raise their kids...I'm stunned with disbelief :D

No one on NS right now has kids or ever wants to? Or even wants to tell other people how they should raise their kids...I'm stunned with disbelief :D

Let them play with lots and lots of sharp, pointy objects. It's the only way they'll learn.







:p Actually, while I probably will want to have kids someday, working out how I'll raise them is not very high on my list of things to think about.

Well...I'm always telling myself that I'll never have kids...too much of a burden.

But...I can see how it would be rewarding. And I am still young. I'll probably change my mind about kids when I get older.

If I were to raise kids, I'd want to let them "grow up". Alot of kids nowadays it seems live rather sheltered lives, with what they're allowed to do or see being restricted or censored. I wouldn't want my kids to grow up like that. I'd want them to see the world as it was.

I'd encourage them to get out and participate. I'd let them screw up, make mistakes and skin their knees, because I'd be there to help them back on their feet.

When they got to "that age", I'd be as frank and open with them as I could. Coddling them would be a waste of time. If they had questions, I'd encourage them to be as frank and open about them as I would be.

In essence, my relationship with my children would be based on mutual respect and trust. Of course I'd teach them that there are consequences for their actions, but I'd let them be their own person.

Being consequent can be quite important.
And rules are an absolute necessity. Rules aren't laws because laws don't have exceptions. Rules do. It's important to realise when an exception is acceptable and when it isn't. This will become extremely important during the juvenile years when they start properly testing your limits.

No one on NS right now has kids or ever wants to? Or even wants to tell other people how they should raise their kids...I'm stunned with disbelief :D
Never :fluffle: :fluffle: I like to fluffle but I could not put my kid into the situation on being raized by me lol

Being consequent can be quite important.
And rules are an absolute necessity. Rules aren't laws because laws don't have exceptions. Rules do. It's important to realise when an exception is acceptable and when it isn't. This will become extremely important during the juvenile years when they start properly testing your limits.
Oh, they start testing those limits from the moment they draw their first breath. And I'm not kidding. Those boundaries need to be clear in your mind from the get go, because you can't 'fix' it later without some serious conflict.

And does anyone else worry about this: when you grow up, you can see fairly clearly the mistakes your parents made (even if they are few), and you know that they tried to avoid the mistakes their parents made...are we all doomed to screw up in terms of our kids?

Being consequent can be quite important.
And rules are an absolute necessity. Rules aren't laws because laws don't have exceptions. Rules do. It's important to realise when an exception is acceptable and when it isn't. This will become extremely important during the juvenile years when they start properly testing your limits.

I agree that there should be limits and rules as far as safety and social situations go.

I just don't want to "limit" my kids as far as their minds go. This is not to say that I'd let my 8yo play GTA, but I wouldn't coddle them.

Plus...I think I'd have enough sense to teach my kids right from wrong, and what is real and what is not.

I think it's really important to keep up with pop culture too...the things that influence kids, not just your kids, but their peers too (because the peers influence your kids and so on). The music, the movies, the games...at least a rudimentary knowledge so you don't have the great 'technological divide' which seems to exist right now in many parents with teens. That stuff is important to kids...in the teen years it sometimes becomes a kind of obsession. Just because you think your own pop-culture (from your teen years perhaps) is better (I hate generational superiority), doesn't mean you shouldn't know what's going on NOW...

Oh, they start testing those limits from the moment they draw their first breath. And I'm not kidding. Those boundaries need to be clear in your mind from the get go, because you can't 'fix' it later without some serious conflict.

And does anyone else worry about this: when you grow up, you can see fairly clearly the mistakes your parents made (even if they are few), and you know that they tried to avoid the mistakes their parents made...are we all doomed to screw up in terms of our kids?It will get much worse when they're older. That's when they get to your real limits.

Mistakes my parents made? I've made mistakes that I didn't manage to avoid later on... The only real mistakes I feel my parents made were with my other siblings... :p

And does anyone else worry about this: when you grow up, you can see fairly clearly the mistakes your parents made (even if they are few), and you know that they tried to avoid the mistakes their parents made...are we all doomed to screw up in terms of our kids?

Given the fallible nature of human beings, yes, all parents are doomed to make mistakes along the way. Whether that constitutes a screw-up, or a part of life, is subjective to the viewer.

Hmmm.....

My dad always had 2 simple rules:

1) Do as you are told.
2) See rule #1

I agree that there should be limits and rules as far as safety and social situations go.

I just don't want to "limit" my kids as far as their minds go. This is not to say that I'd let my 8yo play GTA, but I wouldn't coddle them.

Plus...I think I'd have enough sense to teach my kids right from wrong, and what is real and what is not.They'll be testing your limits. Things like how you react to swear words or bad behavior. That's what I meant with limits...

I think it's really important to keep up with pop culture too...the things that influence kids, not just your kids, but their peers too (because the peers influence your kids and so on). The music, the movies, the games...Ugh... I didn't get to watch Jurassic Park when all of my classmates had because I wasn't 13 yet... :(

It will get much worse when they're older. That's when they get to your real limits.

Mistakes my parents made? I've made mistakes that I didn't manage to avoid later on... The only real mistakes I feel my parents made were with my other siblings... :p

Okay, then let me ask you: Is being a parent as rewarding as everyone says it is?

The only thing you really need to teach your kids if the fire is the cleanser.http://www.4wd.com/4wdforums/images/smilies/flame.gif

For parents, and parents-to-be-one-day, I thought it would be nice to come together and discuss various philosophies and realities of childrearing. By that I mean, it's nice (I'd even say essential) to have an underlying philosophy as to how you want to raise your children, but sometimes your expectations are a little out of step with the reality of the situation.

Anyway, what things do you think are key in the long process of raising children? What practical tips do you have for others (including things to avoid)?
Besides the basic food, clothing and shelter, children need to know beyond any possible doubt that there is at least one adult human who loves them unconditionally. Studies of neglected infants show that the absence of physical contact can actually cause the infants to die from lack of affection. Other studies show that very high percentages of felons and drug users were abused as children.

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for our children is to say "No."

Most parents would say "No" quite loudly if their child were going to do something obviously life-threatening. Yet childhood obesity, for example, is reaching epidemic proportions in the United States. More parents need to understand that saying "No" to junk food falls into the same ballpark as saying "No" to any other life-threatening behavior.

We can extend this concept to almost any form of discipline which isn't abusive. Have you ever heard a child try to justify something of which their parents disapprove by saying "But everyone else is doing it!"? Sometimes the best response to this is to ask, "Are you 'everyone else?'" Some people call this "tough love."

"Tough love" says that out of your unconditional love for your child, you will find the inner strength to deny your child those things which are bad for him or her, regardless of your own feelings. In other words, to say "No." Parents must be willing to be parents, not friends or "buddies," to their children out of their great love for them.

So does that mean that love is enough? Nope. Not at all.

Here are some other things you can do to make sure your child has the best possible chance to not only survive, but to thrive :

* Set the best example you possibly can. The old saw about "Don't do as I do, do as I say" no longer works, if it ever did. Your children are watching you, even if they don't appear to be. In order to understand the impact your behavior has on your children, you need to understand yourself as well as possible.

* Consistency and truthfulness instill trust and respect in your children for you, and for what you tell them. One very important rule for parents is : never promise anything you're not prepared to actually do. This applies to discipline as well as rewards.

* Freedom of speech is always a good concept, especially at home. Not only will your children learn good communication skills and how to think things through, they will give you the opportunity to explain to them why you believe the way you do. A good rule is that there are no "forbidden topics" at your house.

* Set asside a few hours each week just for you and your child. This is especially important when you have more than one child. We recommend one evening each week for each child, set asside as his or her time with you without having to share it with anyone else.

* Try to discover the things at which your child can excel. Encourage these interests so that all that energy and curiosity will have an acceptable outlet. Sports, while not for every child, can be an excellent way for your child to learn self-confidence, teamwork and self-discipline...and to blow off all that steam!

* Give your child the freedom to make mistakes. Failure is a great teacher. I don't mean to imply that you should allow your child to fail without advance warning, but if they aren't willing to listen, explain the possible consequences and then let them fail. Most children will learn rather quickly that mom and dad are good resources.

* Know who your child's friends are. If you have serious reservations about one or more of your child's friends, trust your instincts. Teach your child to think about the consequences of being friends with children headed for trouble. Ask your child if he or she wants to become just like their friend(s). The old saying about "If you lie down with dogs, you're going to get up with fleas" has a lot of validity. We tend to adopt the behavior of those with whom we spend time.

* Do not be afraid to discipline. A child who is not expected to face the consequences of unacceptable behavior will probably become a resentful and undisciplined adult.

These are just a few of the general principles my ex and I used to raise our five children. They must have been reasonably effective, since all five are now responsible, compassionate adults, most of them with children of their own. It's very gratifying to have them come back and ask me "how did you do this, or that?" :)

Since children are probably 2 maybe 3 years away, maybe thought should be given.

My game plan will probably be to give them what they need and to teach them to earn what they want. Equip them with the mental tools needed to survive in this crazy world. Yet allow them to explore their space.

Always be honest with your kids. If they ask a question - answer it to the best of your ability (and the best of their understanding), no matter how uncomfortable the question makes you feel. Don't underestimate them. Tell them your views, but realize that their views may not match yours as they get older and form their own opinions - encourage them to form their own opinions, even if they are not yours. A parent's role is to be a guide and a teacher - but not to make every little decision for the child.

Anyways, that's some of what I think good parenting needs. I don't have kids yet, so I'm sure some of this will change, get confirmed, or turn out to be bunk when I do. =)

Hmmm.....

My dad always had 2 simple rules:

1) Do as you are told.
2) See rule #1
And did those rules work?

Okay, then let me ask you: Is being a parent as rewarding as everyone says it is?I can't really comment on that, because I'm not a parent. My experiences were gathered here (http://www.kubu-kunterbunt.de/). I did homework help and cooking for the young'uns and general supervision for the youths. From doing the homework bit, it is very rewarding to get a kid to be able to understand something on its own :D

All I'll say is that most of my expectations about how I'd bring up my kids went out the window when they actually turned up. It's nice to have an idealistic approach to it, but in reality you bribe, threaten, spoil and be inconsistent with them.

A couple of tips (and my kids are only 4 and 1 now, so I've got shed loads to learn) I've learned so far:

1. You MUST set boundaries and try as hard as you can to be consistent with them.

2. You and your spouse / partner MUST try to set the same boundaries. Kids will try to play you off against each other.

3. You MUST NOT beat yourself up when you realise you're being inconsistent. No-one's perfect.

4. A specific one this. When potty training, get your kid up to go to the toilet just before you go to bed. They stand a better chance of making it through the night that way.

5. Don't compare your child too closely against what books and other people say they should be doing at certain stages. Eventually, they'll all walk, talk, eat etc.

6. Praise your child when they do good things. It's so easy to tell them off when they're naughty, but forget to let them know when they were good.

7. Show them love, patience, kindness, grace, persistence, attention. Your actions teach them more than words ever will.

8. Show them discipline, responsibility, consequences. They really need to know these things.

9. Make time to just play with them. Nothing bonds you more than playing together.

10. Put your own life on hold for... I don't know how long - I haven't got there yet! Seriously, it sometimes feels like that's what you have to do. there isn't enough time in the day to work, spend time with them, spend time with each other, and spend time alone. You'll have to compromise somewhere. Just make sure no part gets neglected completely.

That'll do for now I'm sure.

They'll be testing your limits. Things like how you react to swear words or bad behavior. That's what I meant with limits...

Bad behavior wouldn't be acceptable, I'd teach respect. But, being a teenager myself, I know what you're talking about; I'm "rebelious", but isn't that what being a teen is all about.

I'd give them a wide enough berth when they're older, but I'd let them know what's right and what ain't, and make them aware of the consequences.

I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to raise my children. I'm definitely going to take advice from my parents though, because though there are things I might do differently, I can't complain about the upbringing I've had.

One thing though: Having worked in a supermarket for a year, I'm definitely not taking my children on the weekly food shop, because they'll only want stuff and get bored and run around screaming.
That's another thing. While I'm going to punish my children for misbehaving in public (and otherwise), one thing I am most definitely not going to do is shout at them when they get bored. You see parents with obviously bored/tired children in the supermarket. The kids get fractious and start crying or having a tantrum, and the parents shout at them... for what? For being bored and tired and unable to cope with situations like the parents are? I can't stand when I see parents do this, I feel so sorry for the poor kids.
Also, I'm not going to tell my kids to "shut up" or call them "little shits" like a surprising number of people do.

I'm going to discuss it with my husband/boyfriend (if I have one at the time) and make sure we work as a team though - I don't want my kids going behind my back to get permission from someone else!

Only a few things are core in my particular parenting philosophy ...

1] Consistency in both praise and punishment. This is number one. I don't mean across the board, cuz, frankly, every kid is different. However, consistency among the individuals is important. You will get the inevitable question, "Why me and not him/her?" The only answer to that should be: Because you are not him/her.

2] Attentive parenting. Basically, know your kids. Know who they are, what they like, what they don't like, how they'll react to given situations, and all the other little things that make up a human being.

3] Be the parent. I can't stress this enough. Sometimes it's perfectly ok to say, "Because I said so." If you're the family cook, don't make three dinners. You decide what to make and if they don't want it, they don't eat or, if they're old enough, they make their own. You are the one who is supposed to be in control. Kids will learn how to make up their minds whether you give them choices or not ... Dr. Phil is wrong ... very, very wrong.

Note on this: I sometimes get chided by friends for not letting my children eat candy and drink sodas while I will never deny myself indulgence of my very insisting sweet tooth. To this, I say, "When they're paying for their teeth, they can eat as they wish."

4] Don't gush. Not every drawing is a masterpiece worthy of the Louvre. If you happen to be an artist, in my case a musician, and your child wants to learn from you, then teach them. Teach them as you would anyone else. Let them make mistakes so that they can learn from them and improve. Imagine if nobody had ever slapped Beethoven on the back of the head and said, "Wrong! Do it again!" but rather applauded his incessant banging on the instruments as "phenominal talent". (I am not suggesting anyone slap their child on the back of the head, it is merely an example)

5] Learn to say no. Your child may want to play softball, football, be in band, sing in choir, be on the debate team, and all of that; but they simply cannot. They may not realise they cannot. You are the adult. You know that sometimes you have to turn down offers because you've already got other things on your plate. It's an essential life skill. Tell them no.

I guess that's what I've got for now. I'm sure there's more ... I could write a book, but I won't ...

Okay, then let me ask you: Is being a parent as rewarding as everyone says it is?
Yup.

It's certainly a life changer. If you weren't ready, you sure as hell get ready...or go insane. You can no longer focus on yourself. Your life belongs to others (especially at the beginning). That means, your goals, your actions must all be planned with others in mind. But the reward is the amount of love that exists in a good child-parent bond. And maybe it's just a biological thing, but you suddenly feel that your life has a purpose beyond the actions that you youself make. How you impact this life, or these lives, is going to ripple down the generations. It's a little awesome. But my husband and I often say...if we'd known how great kids were, we'd have started earlier!

Here's to at least two more...

Also, I'm not going to tell my kids to "shut up" or call them "little shits" like a surprising number of people do.

Hahahaha .... no ..... but you'll really, really, really want to sometimes. ;)

I haven't decided exactly how I'm going to raise my children. God forbid anyone do that! Good parenting is mainly improvisation :D

I've been parented both ways. My mom always said no and my dad never said no. I lived with my dad after the divorce and took full advantage of the never say no policy. I abused my dad's trust and went a little wild. Lesson here is kids need rules with consequences if they don't follow them. I parented my kids that way and on the rare occasion when a time-out wasn't enough, they got spanked. That was for something very serious and it didn't happen often. Now they are 24 and 23 years old. They never did drugs and never got into serious trouble in school. While I know there are some of you out there that totally disagree with any type of corporal punishment, my kids turned out just fine and both have thanked us for how they were raised.

Okay, then let me ask you: Is being a parent as rewarding as everyone says it is?

No. It's better. There's no greater feeling than this little life saying 'I love you Daddy'. *melts*

* Freedom of speech is always a good concept, especially at home. Not only will your children learn good communication skills and how to think things through, they will give you the opportunity to explain to them why you believe the way you do. A good rule is that there are no "forbidden topics" at your house.

I just gotta say: I love that rule! :p

Also, I'm not going to tell my kids to "shut up" or call them "little shits" like a surprising number of people do. I've actually met someone that did this without really being a bad father. It was how he always talked with them. (Surprisingly, they were really nice kids and didn't swear at all)

I've actually met someone that did this without really being a bad father. It was how he always talked with them. (Surprisingly, they were really nice kids and didn't swear at all)

Was it that he was doing it in a "joking" or "friendly" way? Kinda like how my Dad called us "Knuckleheads"?

Or did he do it out of anger?

i think when my time comes to raise my own younguns i think i will do everything my parents did with my siblings and i.... except for one thing. i wouldn't teach them to answer 'what are you?' with 'pain in the ass'.

* Set the best example you possibly can. The old saw about "Don't do as I do, do as I say" no longer works, if it ever did. Your children are watching you, even if they don't appear to be. In order to understand the impact your behavior has on your children, you need to understand yourself as well as possible.


Aye ... that may be ... but I'm not going to limit myself to an hour of television a day or make myself go to bed at 8pm on school nights or deny myself a candy bar because I haven't finished my dinner. I'm the adult, damn it! :p "Do as I say, not as I do" does work on some levels. Not like the rugrats can vote me off the island. ;)

Theoretically, I let my kids (2 girls, 3 years old and thirteen months) do anything they want as long as it's not dangerous. But often, I tell them not to do something if it's going to cause me a lot of grief (e.g. putting the cat food in the cat's water then spreading the resulting mess on the living room carpet.

My youngest has come up with a new game where she starts to do something she knows she's not supposed to (throwing food in the garbage, for example) and then looks over at me. So I say "No!" in a loud and authoratative voice. This, apparently, is hilarious. So she repeats this the way only toddlers can: ad nauseam.

Kids are tiring, frustrating, irrational, and the best thing that ever happened to me.

:)

Was it that he was doing it in a "joking" or "friendly" way? Kinda like how my Dad called us "Knuckleheads"?

Or did he do it out of anger?He'd do it all the time, though often out of anger. He didn't hit his children though. It's weird. I disapproved of it, but it didn't seem to damage them.

No. It's better. There's no greater feeling than this little life saying 'I love you Daddy'. *melts*You're so right. It is better. You can never love them too much. They are a gift from God.

Always be honest with your kids. If they ask a question - answer it to the best of your ability (and the best of their understanding), no matter how uncomfortable the question makes you feel. Don't underestimate them. Tell them your views, but realize that their views may not match yours as they get older and form their own opinions - encourage them to form their own opinions, even if they are not yours. A parent's role is to be a guide and a teacher - but not to make every little decision for the child.

Anyways, that's some of what I think good parenting needs. I don't have kids yet, so I'm sure some of this will change, get confirmed, or turn out to be bunk when I do. =)
Never bunk...just harder to do than to say.

But I'm with you on the truth thing. If you want to be able to trust your kids, you have to show them that truth matters, by making sure you are truthful with them. If you say you're going to give them a cookie if they eat their supper, do it. If you say that you're going to play with them as soon as you finish the dishes...don't sit down later and hope they forgot. They didn't. Do it. And don't pretend you're shit doesn't smell...when they start asking you about drugs, or sex, or anything else we don't like kids to ask us about, be honest about your experiences. That doesn't mean you have to be explicit. Just real. If you ever had at least one adult you could be 'real' with when you were a teen...you KNOW how much that can mean.

I also think it's important to learn a bit about how children grow. You don't need to get a Masters in childhood education, but you should know when kids are generally capable of things like being able to consider the feelings of others, predict consequences of actions, and so on. If you have unrealistic expectations about what your kids should be doing (like, they should just KNOW how to share!) you'll be frustrated, and so will they.

Speaking as a former child and as a parent of 5 (yes, you read that correctly) young children I know I have some input for this thread! Oh, how we try to avoid the "mistakes" our own parents made, but somehow you catch yourself doing and saying (don't make me come in there...) things that your parents did. Actually, we are trying to avoid the major things our parents did that we feel were mistakes; these things tend to be behaviors that our parents had and not us as children. Coming from disfunctional families tends to make you either a copy of that disfunction or someone who aviods that behaivor totally. So, while I think I turned out to be a decent human being, it is sometimes in spite of my parents not because of them. Now being a parent I want my kids to know they are loved for who they are no matter what their level of intelligence or beauty may be in society's view. To me they are the most wonderful people in the world. I know they are not perfect, and I don't want them to think that either, but I let them know that their abilities and personality are great in my eyes. We don't shelter our children, but then again there are some things that are age appropriate that we don't let them view yet. If they can ask about it though, we give them an explanation in terms that they can comprehend. We also want our children to have a view of the world as a whole and not an insular view, so we expose them to world events in the news; though later we'll get into how the news is just as biased as anything lol. I know I'm not perfect and I know my kids will grow up with their own imperfections but I hope that I will end up with intelligent, compasionate, happy adults some day... who will get to repeat the whole process trying to avoid my mistakes!

I've actually met someone that did this without really being a bad father. It was how he always talked with them. (Surprisingly, they were really nice kids and didn't swear at all)

Well, I must admit that I do swear around my kids. They seem to understand that adults do that and it's not really appropriate for kids.

Although it was very, very amusing to hear my four year old singing:

The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire.
The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire.
We don't need no water, let the mother fucker burn.
Burn, mother fucker, burn.

Theoretically, I let my kids (2 girls, 3 years old and thirteen months) do anything they want as long as it's not dangerous. But often, I tell them not to do something if it's going to cause me a lot of grief (e.g. putting the cat food in the cat's water then spreading the resulting mess on the living room carpet.

My youngest has come up with a new game where she starts to do something she knows she's not supposed to (throwing food in the garbage, for example) and then looks over at me. So I say "No!" in a loud and authoratative voice. This, apparently, is hilarious. So she repeats this the way only toddlers can: ad nauseam.

Kids are tiring, frustrating, irrational, and the best thing that ever happened to me.

:)

Aww! :p

I've actually met someone that did this without really being a bad father. It was how he always talked with them. (Surprisingly, they were really nice kids and didn't swear at all)

Now I come to think of it, my boyfriend's mum calls him a dickhead rather a lot... but mainly it's in a semi-joking way, like when he forgets to put ice cream back in the freezer etc. And I think she's only been doing that since he became a teenager :rolleyes:

Theoretically, I let my kids (2 girls, 3 years old and thirteen months) do anything they want as long as it's not dangerous. But often, I tell them not to do something if it's going to cause me a lot of grief (e.g. putting the cat food in the cat's water then spreading the resulting mess on the living room carpet.)

Your kids do that too? Ha!

I tend to be pretty permissive. I raise them pretty non-materialistic, so if they want to play basketball in the kitchen, so be it. Worst that can happen is a dish or two gets broken. They're just dishes.

I tend to be strict when it comes to noise, though. I really don't like a lot of cacophony. I bite my tongue a lot because I know kids just need loud time now and then, but sometimes I simply demand quiet. Fortunately, I've raised them well enough to know when I mean it and they're still young enough to be just a little afraid of me and will give me a good 45 minutes of quiet play sometimes.

Here's something that I learned: You may not make the same mistakes that your parents did, but you'll make a whole new set of mistakes of your own.

Well, I must admit that I do swear around my kids. They seem to understand that adults do that and it's not really appropriate for kids.

Although it was very, very amusing to hear my four year old singing:

The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire.
The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire.
We don't need no water, let the mother fucker burn.
Burn, mother fucker, burn.

Aww!

...I think...

Now I come to think of it, my boyfriend's mum calls him a dickhead rather a lot... but mainly it's in a semi-joking way, like when he forgets to put ice cream back in the freezer etc. And I think she's only been doing that since he became a teenager :rolleyes:Well, this guy referred to his kids as "little shits". But somehow, he always showed them he loved them while he was at it. I mean he was using something that you'd expect from a father that beat his children and I'm sure he didn't do anything of the sort.

Actually, what do you all think of those programmes you see on TV such as "Little Angels" and "Supernanny" where there are one or several kids in a family who just won't behave, and the parent(s) enlist the help of someone else to help them deal with their family?

Whenever I watch them I get really mad, always ending up shouting at the TV, "SLAP HIM ONE!" when I see the kid misbehaving.

That's another thing: what do you all think about smacking? The government here (England) seems to think it's terrible, what with parents whacking their kids about and abusing them etc - I however think it can be an extremely effective punishment. Me and my two sisters were smacked when we were young, but only a few times - I don't remember being smacked at all, and I only remember one or two occasions on which my dad smacked my sisters. Once we'd learnt that it hurt my parents would threaten us with it and we knew they'd follow through, but they never needed to.

All I'll say is that most of my expectations about how I'd bring up my kids went out the window when they actually turned up. It's nice to have an idealistic approach to it, but in reality you bribe, threaten, spoil and be inconsistent with them.
Amen to that! With my three year old, I regularly bribe her with a square of chocolate so that she'll actually eat her food. I swore I'd never bribe, but it works, and she eats. And television...I was going to sell it and raise my kids without tv. Yeah right. Most of the time, I keep them occupied enough not to sit in front of it...but some days when I just need a rest, or I need to distract them long enough to actually snuggle with their father, the tv becomes my best friend. I restrict what they watch, but still...I swore they wouldn't watch at all!


3. You MUST NOT beat yourself up when you realise you're being inconsistent. No-one's perfect.
As much as you insist you'll do this or that, you're right...you'll screw up. I'd like to add to this that it's never too early to apologise to your kids if you're in the wrong. They may not even be talking yet, but they're learning language more rapidly than you can possibly comprehend...AND they're learning behaviour from you at the same time. If you do something stupid, admit it and apologise. Don't hope they'll just forget, or not notice.


6. Praise your child when they do good things. It's so easy to tell them off when they're naughty, but forget to let them know when they were good.And tell them you love them. All the time. Even if they're mad at you. Even if you're mad at them. Hug, kiss, pat, whatever. Be affectionate as often as you can. Take time to just hold them (if they let you). The dishes, the laundry, your favourite show, dinner...it can all wait. If they learn words like, 'stupid, bad, ugly'...you make sure they also learn words like, 'smart, good, beautiful'. Children crave, above all, your attention. Make that your absolute priority.


10. Put your own life on hold for... I don't know how long - I haven't got there yet! Seriously, it sometimes feels like that's what you have to do. there isn't enough time in the day to work, spend time with them, spend time with each other, and spend time alone. You'll have to compromise somewhere. Just make sure no part gets neglected completely.


Agreed. At some points you resent the fact that you have little freedom to do as you please. But I've been told it gets better...either than or you just get used to it :) . But for the first few years...and understand that...years can sound like a short period of time, but when you're living it, it seems like life has always been like this...for the first few years you are not the master of your own destiny. Don't regret it...embrace the change...but take you time, take you-and-partner time when you can. And sleep becomes a commodity more precious than anything....

Actually, what do you all think of those programmes you see on TV such as "Little Angels" and "Supernanny" where there are one or several kids in a family who just won't behave, and the parent(s) enlist the help of someone else to help them deal with their family?

Solilciting outside help is sometimes necessary. I don't think I'd do it on national television, though.

Whenever I watch them I get really mad, always ending up shouting at the TV, "SLAP HIM ONE!" when I see the kid misbehaving.

Oh, me too. I often think, "Nothing a cattle prod wouldn't solve."

That's another thing: what do you all think about smacking?

I think it depends on the situation. There must reach a point where the child must learn. As a parent, a choice must be made: do I let them learn it on their own, or do I intervene. If I see a child reaching for a hot cast-iron pot, I could either let them grab it and sit there saying, "well, I told you not to touch that" as they go through months of painful skin grafts .... or .... I could pop them one and bark, "Get away from that!"

Either way ... lesson learned. One way is much, much less harsh, though.

That's another thing: what do you all think about smacking?

threatening is never a good thing to use on children as you'll set a bad example but i don't find too much harm in it. as long as it doesn't turn into something abusive. i was given a clip round the ear and a small smack when i was getting WAY out of hand as a child and it certainly cleared up the problem. i never threw a tantrum after that.

Agreed. At some points you resent the fact that you have little freedom to do as you please. But I've been told it gets better...either than or you just get used to it :) . But for the first few years...and understand that...years can sound like a short period of time, but when you're living it, it seems like life has always been like this...for the first few years you are not the master of your own destiny.

Well, according to my mother, even having a 33 year old son is a source of constant worry and planning. I'm pretty sure you know ... you're stuck for life. Though, yeah, as they get older you do get to go to the movies more often.

Movies are one thing I really had to give up. Before I had kids, I was a movie-holic. I went to new movies at least three times a week. Either major releases or indie films at the Greenway. I've kept a running list of every movie I wanted to see on the big screen, but couldn't because I had kids. I plan on having it read with my will.

One thing though: Having worked in a supermarket for a year, I'm definitely not taking my children on the weekly food shop, because they'll only want stuff and get bored and run around screaming.
At tip for the times when you can't avoid taking them:

Involve them in the process. When you've selected something you want to buy, get them to take it off the shelf (unless it's breakable) and put it in the cart. Talk to them while you shop, talk about the products. Be prepared to stop and let them look at something. Don't be in a rush. Don't try to get in and out in the least possible amount of time. It's not going to happen. When you go up to the checkout, let them put the food on the conveyor belt...again, unless the object is breakable. Show them how you pay, with interact or cash or credit card...let them hand the method of payment to the cashier. And if things turn sour, and the kids are too grumpy, throwing a tantrum, or whatever...be prepared to ditch the shopping and just go home.

I have three kids-20 mos,6 and 11. I'm dealing with a broad spectrum.

One important thing I try to establish and maintain is that I am always here for them. Though the younger two dont care or understand yet, I have told my 11 yr old he can share anything with me-no matter how terrible he thinks things are, chances are good, I can help him through it. I try to be his friend AND his father. I have discussed alomost everything with him, let him know that although some topics may be taboo with other people-even his mother- he can discuss anything with me. So far, he has.

We have consistantly read to our children since birth. my two boys started reading and speaking very early. They both love to read and look foward to hitting the book store and library often. We do the library at least once a week. They look foward to the various kids magazines they subscribe to. My daughter seems to be following in their footsteps.
the benefit here is my kids have been able to communicate and express themselves appropriately since a young age-way before their peers. They seem to have more confidence when speaking and also have great imaginations. They both assert themselves verbally.
I see this as a huge advantage. they may never need to speak publically, but they will have no problems whatsoever with speaking.

I also expose them to many things and fully support whatever they show interest in, within reason. The two boys have been playing chess for years now. the yboth ride horseback and do tae kwon do. One plays soccer, the other plays the piano. They meet others when they particpate and this opens more doors to possibilities. my next thing is to get them playing golf..
They both took summer courses at the local college. They wanted to and they enjoyed it.

Another thing I know is important-besides making sure they eat balanced diets, take vitamins, brush their teeth- my wife and I are consistant with their upbringing-we stay on the same page and dont send mixed signals with reprimands and instructions.

There is a lot more, as you can imagine, but this is a good overall view so far.

Sin-dont talk to me about gender issues. :p

be prepared to ditch the shopping and just go home.

Best. Advise. Ever.

So many parents would benefit from that one simple thing.

Amen to that! With my three year old, I regularly bribe her with a square of chocolate so that she'll actually eat her food. I swore I'd never bribe, but it works, and she eats. And television...I was going to sell it and raise my kids without tv. Yeah right. Most of the time, I keep them occupied enough not to sit in front of it...but some days when I just need a rest, or I need to distract them long enough to actually snuggle with their father, the tv becomes my best friend. I restrict what they watch, but still...I swore they wouldn't watch at all!I've managed to stick to the rules my youth center had and to make sure kids followed them. But I suppose that was made easier with the threat of sending them home... not something you can do if you're the parent...

As for the TV thing... One of my friends grew up without a TV for the first decade or so of his life and he has serious problems with recognizing different people and plots in movies or shows. This is particularly harmful when you have to watch videos, which we did for a class in Uni once. It came on the exam and he was rather displeased afterwards.

Hahahaha .... no ..... but you'll really, really, really want to sometimes. ;)
Guaranteed you'll be thinking it at the very least:)

I, like Keru, swear around my kids. I'm trying to work on it, not because I think they'll start swearing (like Keru's pointed out, they seem to realise those are BAD words they shouldn't say), but because I don't want them to feel like I'm swearing at them, even though I'm not. Kids are very sensitive to moods...and very often they will think they are the reason for those moods. If you are in a bad mood, banging around, swearing...they'll think you're mad at them. No amount of explaining is going to take that feeling away. So you need to learn how to control yourself. For someone like me, who has always had a hard time with my temper, this is probably my biggest struggle.

God forbid anyone do that! Good parenting is mainly improvisation :D
And then some.

But if you don't have some things set in place, it becomes much harder. Like discussing with your partner the need for parental consistency...don't overrule or overturn your partner's decision without discussing it with them first, and so on.

But the rest...you learn as you go. That's life:)

Guaranteed you'll be thinking it at the very least:)

I, like Keru, swear around my kids. I'm trying to work on it, not because I think they'll start swearing (like Keru's pointed out, they seem to realise those are BAD words they shouldn't say), but because I don't want them to feel like I'm swearing at them, even though I'm not. Kids are very sensitive to moods...and very often they will think they are the reason for those moods. If you are in a bad mood, banging around, swearing...they'll think you're mad at them. No amount of explaining is going to take that feeling away. So you need to learn how to control yourself. For someone like me, who has always had a hard time with my temper, this is probably my biggest struggle.You're lucky your kids don't speak German :p
If I got a € for every time I've heard "Scheiße sagt man nicht, Scheiße macht man!" (You don't say shit, you do it)...

We have consistantly read to our children since birth. my two boys started reading and speaking very early. They both love to read and look foward to hitting the book store and library often.

I'm the same with music. Music is constantly being played in our home. From Mozart to Nirvana, Willie Nelson to Pantera. A huge, ecclectic variety of things. I also play music for them and let them watch - and sometimes participate - as I compose.

They are all, at this point, learning at least one musical instrument. Even my son, who is only 3, is learning keyboard techniques for future piano playing. Not by my request, either. A musician's life is not an easy life ... they expressed the desire and picked their instruments.

And then some.

But if you don't have some things set in place, it becomes much harder. Like discussing with your partner the need for parental consistency...don't overrule or overturn your partner's decision without discussing it with them first, and so on.

But the rest...you learn as you go. That's life:)Yeah, good teamwork is the key. Consistency is important, but it means nothing if only one of the parents does it.

No. It's better. There's no greater feeling than this little life saying 'I love you Daddy'. *melts*
No doubt! We couldn't wait until our kids could give hugs and kisses, and say "I lulu" (little kid speech for I love you:)). And we were right to want it...it's absolutely wonderful. Or when they just come and snuggle with you, or slip their hand into yours, or greet you happily if you've been away from them for any amount of time...must be something hard wired into us....

Amen to that! With my three year old, I regularly bribe her with a square of chocolate so that she'll actually eat her food. I swore I'd never bribe, but it works, and she eats.

Well ... a bribe with a little chocolate beats a threat with the cane any day. :D

I've actually met someone that did this without really being a bad father. It was how he always talked with them. (Surprisingly, they were really nice kids and didn't swear at all)
It's not the language, it's the bond, and the intent. My dad's best friend (a biker like my dad) used to say to his kids, "I'm going to rip your legs off!" all the time...but they knew he wouldn't, and that as gruff as he seemed, all they had to do was jump into his arms and he'd melt. He swore all the time at his kids, but even on the occasions where it was in anger, it never scared them. They knew he'd never hurt them, and that the language was not really abusive.

Okay, then let me ask you: Is being a parent as rewarding as everyone says it is?

For the brief few years when your son thinks you're the strongest man in the world and you're the only boyfriend your daughter ever needs, yes. Yes it is.

I can't speak for having teenagers, though .... yet.

Aye ... that may be ... but I'm not going to limit myself to an hour of television a day or make myself go to bed at 8pm on school nights or deny myself a candy bar because I haven't finished my dinner. I'm the adult, damn it! :p "Do as I say, not as I do" does work on some levels. Not like the rugrats can vote me off the island. ;)
Well some things simply are for adults. You're right. But I think he's talking more about things like telling the truth, treating others with respect and so on. But it's good to point this out...we don't have to do exactly what we want our kids to do. Unless we expect them to cook meals and so on...they'll play at it though, and that's fine...

Last night my daughter (3 and a half) decided to reverse roles, and she played Mommy and I played her. It was interesting to see what things she picked out to act...she tucked me into bed and said, "I go work now". Then she came home from 'work' (a few seconds later) and said 'I home! Huggy!'. It's good to sit back everyone once in a while and see how your kid sees you...

So she repeats this the way only toddlers can: ad nauseam.


I've yet to reach that limit where the kids get sick of a game before me....

Well some things simply are for adults. You're right. But I think he's talking more about things like telling the truth, treating others with respect and so on. But it's good to point this out...we don't have to do exactly what we want our kids to do. Unless we expect them to cook meals and so on...they'll play at it though, and that's fine...
Ooh! I'm still proud of when I managed to teach my dad not to walk accross intersections diagonally! :D

Last night my daughter (3 and a half) decided to reverse roles, and she played Mommy and I played her. It was interesting to see what things she picked out to act...she tucked me into bed and said, "I go work now". Then she came home from 'work' (a few seconds later) and said 'I home! Huggy!'. It's good to sit back everyone once in a while and see how your kid sees you...

Lol ... yeah that's always cute. When my kids play me in their little games, I'm often the one (in the pseudo deep childy type voice) saying, "Hey ... don't talk to your mother like that" or "How about a little quiet so I can lay this track".

Although once, and I wish I had this on video tape, they were playing mommy and daddy and my younger daughter was playing me and walked into her room, looked around a little, and said, "Yeesh ... this place is a fucking mess ... oh well, it's not my mess" and walked out of her room.

I've yet to reach that limit where the kids get sick of a game before me....I suppose you haven't tried the "SHUT UP!" game yet... It's simple, we try to see who can SHUT UP! the longest... (I've only done it in German, where there's no similarly harsh equivalent, so I guess the "BE QUIET!" game would work best for kids in English)

Fortunately, I've raised them well enough to know when I mean it and they're still young enough to be just a little afraid of me and will give me a good 45 minutes of quiet play sometimes.
It's taken a long time to get the kids to the point where I can play guitar without them trying to grab it from me, or otherwise interrupt my practicing. (I even had half-size guitars for them to play while I did, but they want the big ones!) I let them 'play' for a few minutes when I first bring it out...each kid gets a turn. I change chords while they strum. They love that! Then, it's "Mommy's turn". The older one now does these interpretive dances while I sing, and the baby wanders off to find another instrument to accompany me:). But it was really nice to bring the guitars up from the basement...they know not to do more than strum them on the stands now.

Here's something that I learned: You may not make the same mistakes that your parents did, but you'll make a whole new set of mistakes of your own.
Tell me about it :(

Ah well...they say part of growing up is forgiving your parents:).

It's taken a long time to get the kids to the point where I can play guitar without them trying to grab it from me, or otherwise interrupt my practicing. (I even had half-size guitars for them to play while I did, but they want the big ones!) I let them 'play' for a few minutes when I first bring it out...each kid gets a turn. I change chords while they strum. They love that! Then, it's "Mommy's turn". The older one now does these interpretive dances while I sing, and the baby wanders off to find another instrument to accompany me:). But it was really nice to bring the guitars up from the basement...they know not to do more than strum them on the stands now.Have they thought of using pots as percussion instruments yet? That's something me and my siblings would always do...

But it was really nice to bring the guitars up from the basement...they know not to do more than strum them on the stands now.

Ah! Nod ... my kids are pretty good with instruments. But, then, as I said, I'm raising them pretty non-materialistic, so when they see that I pay a certain amount of attention or respect towards a certain thing, they seem to understand that it's an object to be at least respected. They have their instruments and they know that if they break them, it will be a while before they get new ones.

However ... with guitar ... oy ... my 5 year old is learning guitar and her hands are too small to change the strings, though her callouses (sp?) are coming along nicely. She can actually play for a good 15 minutes before her fingers start to hurt too much. She's surprisingly disciplined with it. In all other aspects of her life, she's a complete flake. Very flighty child. Distracted amazingly easily. But when she picks up her guitar, she's gone. Off into a zone that only pain can bring her out from. I think she'll do well.

Guaranteed you'll be thinking it at the very least:)

I, like Keru, swear around my kids. I'm trying to work on it, not because I think they'll start swearing (like Keru's pointed out, they seem to realise those are BAD words they shouldn't say), but because I don't want them to feel like I'm swearing at them, even though I'm not. Kids are very sensitive to moods...and very often they will think they are the reason for those moods. If you are in a bad mood, banging around, swearing...they'll think you're mad at them. No amount of explaining is going to take that feeling away. So you need to learn how to control yourself. For someone like me, who has always had a hard time with my temper, this is probably my biggest struggle.


My kids have heard me curse before. Not frequently.

My 6 & 11 yr olds know there is a time and a place for everything. Neither has ever had any sort of cursing problem, here or in school, etc..
They understand these are just words.

That's another thing: what do you all think about smacking? The government here (England) seems to think it's terrible, what with parents whacking their kids about and abusing them etc - I however think it can be an extremely effective punishment. Me and my two sisters were smacked when we were young, but only a few times - I don't remember being smacked at all, and I only remember one or two occasions on which my dad smacked my sisters. Once we'd learnt that it hurt my parents would threaten us with it and we knew they'd follow through, but they never needed to.
I'm a bit too smacky for my own tastes. I smack a lot. Not hard, mind you...but I slap hands away from hot stoves, I smack butts when the owners of said butts are hanging like monkeys off the back of the couch. Unfortunately, with the one child, it seems to have absolutely no effect...so I am starting not to bother. With the other, though, a smack works where a warning, another warning, and finally a command simply doesn't.

I don't think it works very well. I've spanked them a few times, but it doesn't really seem to scare them, or teach them anything. What works is the threat of 'going to your room'. If I feel like I'm going to hit them for something they're doing (hitting, versus smacking), I pack them up and put them in their room so I can cool down, and they can stop doing whatever they were doing. It works much, much better.

I'll probably keep smacking...but not to hurt, just to warn. I don't think that's abusive. Hitting...I did it twice (too hard I mean, and in anger) and I felt like shit. Not worth it, and it doesn't help.

Hitting...I did it twice (too hard I mean, and in anger) and I felt like shit. Not worth it, and it doesn't help.

Hey ... it happens. Even me, who has a temperment like a placid lake on a still day while the fish are all asleep, once threw a shoe at my kid because they wouldn't shut up while I was trying to record an 8 second vocal track.

Knocked her square in the forehead. I got my 8 seconds (and then some) of stunned silence ... but I felt like shit about it.

I don't think it works very well. I've spanked them a few times, but it doesn't really seem to scare them, or teach them anything. What works is the threat of 'going to your room'. If I feel like I'm going to hit them for something they're doing (hitting, versus smacking), I pack them up and put them in their room so I can cool down, and they can stop doing whatever they were doing. It works much, much better.Our dad only spanked us as a last resort and only after he finished counting to three. He'd count slow enough so that you could stop what you were doing in time, but if you didn't, it hurt. He'd set us into different corners of a room, especially if there were two of us fighting, a lot. We'd have to sit and think about what we did and bore ourselves to death (very effective with fidgety little children; boredom is a severe punishment and actually hurts).

Sin-dont talk to me about gender issues. :p
I wouldn't have...but now you've challenged me...

...what do people think about teaching kids that "this is for boys, and this is for girls" when you're talking about things other than their genitalia?

It's easier for girls I think. We even have a term for girls who like 'boy things'...a tomboy. But I think it's much harder for boys. Even I would be a bit put off if I had a son who wanted to wear a dress. It wouldn't bother me in and of itself, but I'd be bothered by people wanting an explanation, or making an issue of it. I DON'T have a son yet, just two daughters, so it hasn't been an issue. Still...I don't want my kids to think that certain things are just for one gender (though dresses and really 'girly' clothes might be an exception for regular wear, if not for 'dress up').

I also don't want to force my girls to play with trucks, and my boys (of the future) to play with dolls. I figure, whatever they are interested in they should be allowed to play with, as long as it isn't dangerous:).

My kids have heard me curse before. Not frequently.

My 6 & 11 yr olds know there is a time and a place for everything. Neither has ever had any sort of cursing problem, here or in school, etc..
They understand these are just words.I'm amazed actually. I haven't taken on any of my dad's favorite oaths...

I'm the same with music. Music is constantly being played in our home. From Mozart to Nirvana, Willie Nelson to Pantera. A huge, ecclectic variety of things. I also play music for them and let them watch - and sometimes participate - as I compose.

They are all, at this point, learning at least one musical instrument. Even my son, who is only 3, is learning keyboard techniques for future piano playing. Not by my request, either. A musician's life is not an easy life ... they expressed the desire and picked their instruments.

Thats great- my son started piano lessons at 4, which is a little early, but it suited him. Your son will be on the right track. We have a broad spectrum of music too-much the same as you described. I might have it on random play and include Judas Priest and Andrea Bocelli. My six year old likes everything right now, my 11 yr old likes the classical more-Mozart, Beethoven, etc... And I think this is because he is playing mainly that on the piano.
I'm a firm believer that music being a part of your life helps broaden one's horizons and fine tune their mind. And if they play an instrument for pleasure, that improves them exponentially.

It's easier for girls I think. We even have a term for girls who like 'boy things'...a tomboy. But I think it's much harder for boys. Even I would be a bit put off if I had a son who wanted to wear a dress. It wouldn't bother me in and of itself, but I'd be bothered by people wanting an explanation, or making an issue of it. I DON'T have a son yet, just two daughters, so it hasn't been an issue. Still...I don't want my kids to think that certain things are just for one gender (though dresses and really 'girly' clothes might be an exception for regular wear, if not for 'dress up').
I'd probably be against the dress thing if it happened before puberty. Somehow, that's an aspect of sexuality, and I don't really think kids would be able to understand the concept before then (if they ever do).

Hey ... it happens. Even me, who has a temperment like a placid lake on a still day while the fish are all asleep, once threw a shoe at my kid because they wouldn't shut up while I was trying to record an 8 second vocal track.

Knocked her square in the forehead. I got my 8 seconds (and then some) of stunned silence ... but I felt like shit about it.


That sucks. I dont know what else to say. Throwing a shoe at someone is such an expression of contempt-one notch above spitting on them.

WTF were you thinking?

And did those rules work?

Generally, yes, because when my father was tyelling me something, it was usually for my own good or he's showing me how to do something.

Either that or he was telling me to get my chores done :)

...what do people think about teaching kids that "this is for boys, and this is for girls" when you're talking about things other than their genitalia?


Ultimately, I think it's up to the parents. (Yes, parentS)

For my part, I'm indifferent. They play with what they want to play with. My father-in-law once berated me about letting our son play with baby dolls. He feeds them and changes their diapers and all that nice stuff and I said to the father-in-law, "Hey ... he may have kids some day. Nice to see he's got a more gentle side to him. Babies ain't footballs."

Of course, this is the same man who got pissy about me buying a little play kitchen for my son ... never minding the fact that I *do ALL the cooking*! But, I simply asked him (the father-in-law) to name 5 famous female chefs. He couldn't ... it shut him up about cooking being "woman's work".

WTF were you thinking?

I was thinking I needed 8 seconds of quiet and I was surrounded by microphones, wires, hooked up to headphones, focussed on the task, and I didn't want to have to move everything out of the way to get up and shove the kid off into the other room and then have to readjust everything back to comfortable positions ... so I chucked a shoe.

I'm over it ... she's over it ... it will be something she can use in either the shortest comedy routine in history or a 10 second therapy session.

Of course, this is the same man who got pissy about me buying a little play kitchen for my son ... never minding the fact that I *do ALL the cooking*! But, I simply asked him (the father-in-law) to name 5 famous female chefs. He couldn't ... it shut him up about cooking being "woman's work".LOL
I got weird looks from the kids at my youth center when the great meal they just ate was revealed as my creation and not that of my female colleague. :D
That kind of thinking is deeply ingrained in children and one of the older co-workers always brought up the "chef" arguement in those situations. It was particularly important for us because we had immigrant children from an immigrant neighborhood with "values" that I question vehemently.

I wouldn't have...but now you've challenged me...



You were gonna no matter what-it all leads to gender issues with you sooner or later.

I objected to my wife buying my son a doll house for Christmas when he was like 4 yrs old. Her argument was that whenever she took him to our friends house, my son would play with their daughter's doll house and have fun.
My opinion is that yes, he had fun with it-as I did at my cousins as a kids- we played with her dolls and unicorns etc..., but that was when we were there. I didnt need them and these gender specific items werent missed when we werent there. And when she was over, we played with my Tonka trucks as well as Planet of the Apes figures, hotwheels etc...
So, shortly after Christmas, when my son no longer paid any attention to the doll house, I gave it to my secretary for her daughter. My son never missed it.
I probably wont buy a football for my daughter, unless she specifically wants one at some point.
And I'll never buy makeup or Dora shoes that light up for my boys,even if they watch the show.

I do want to adopt one day, because I have always wanted a child, and there is a lot on the list compiled so far I agree with, though I was always supremely annoyed when people wouldn't even attempt to explain something at me, so I plan to be a lot more open about questions if they're asked.

I suppose though, I'd have a major problem when it comes to anger, mind. I'm not too great when it comes to anger management. Overly passive as it builds up, then it all ends up in a big wave of shouting, occasional violence, and tears of some kind. I don't think that'd leave the desired impression, somehow.

I suppose you haven't tried the "SHUT UP!" game yet... It's simple, we try to see who can SHUT UP! the longest... (I've only done it in German, where there's no similarly harsh equivalent, so I guess the "BE QUIET!" game would work best for kids in English)
I've tried. The kids weren't interested:).

The current favourite is the "Stop GO" game. My daughter follows me around while I do chores, and makes me stop...then go. It slows things down, but she LOVES it! That, and this weird game where we take care of her invisible spider baby. :confused:

Kids have such imaginations...it's hard to get into that frame of mind sometimes. No wonder my mom smoked so much pot!

Have they thought of using pots as percussion instruments yet? That's something me and my siblings would always do...
My kids are a bit spoiled by having parents who love music. We have all sorts of real drums, whistles, and assorted instruments. We collect, and not just for looks. But they DO love the sound of an empty water bottle (the 18L ones)...and the baby is fond of smashing the lids onto pots at times, yes:).

That, and this weird game where we take care of her invisible spider baby. :confused:


I can't tell you the amount of imaginary food I eat every day ...

I was thinking I needed 8 seconds of quiet and I was surrounded by microphones, wires, hooked up to headphones, focussed on the task, and I didn't want to have to move everything out of the way to get up and shove the kid off into the other room and then have to readjust everything back to comfortable positions ... so I chucked a shoe.

I'm over it ... she's over it ... it will be something she can use in either the shortest comedy routine in history or a 10 second therapy session.


I'm just giving you my opinion. Keep in mind I'm very conscious of my own response when angered or impatient. Before I was married and had kids, acting on rage was an issue. With you, it may have never been a problem.

I'm just giving you my opinion. Keep in mind I'm very conscious of my own response when angered or impatient. Before I was married and had kids, acting on rage was an issue. With you, it may have never been a problem.

Nod ... I was very surprised. I think I was more surprised than she was. Nothing like that has happened since, though. People keep telling me to "wait until they're teenagers" .....

LOL
I got weird looks from the kids at my youth center when the great meal they just ate was revealed as my creation and not that of my female colleague. :D
That kind of thinking is deeply ingrained in children and one of the older co-workers always brought up the "chef" arguement in those situations. It was particularly important for us because we had immigrant children from an immigrant neighborhood with "values" that I question vehemently.
My husband loves to cook. I do it because I have to. But the kids see it as normal that adults cooks...regardless of their gender. Same with the cleaning, the gardening, and pretty much everything else. And they're getting use to 'helping'. It's all good.

My husband loves to cook. I do it because I have to. But the kids see it as normal that adults cooks...regardless of their gender. Same with the cleaning, the gardening, and pretty much everything else. And they're getting use to 'helping'. It's all good.Yeah, some of the kids at work had real gender issues. My boss said that finally having a male volonteer really helped change the image some children had.

My kids see me and often participate with me in cooking at least half the time. I never saw it as a "woman's job"- maybe in the 50s when men were the sole bread winner and worked 9-5 and made enough for everyone to be comfortable.
its my home, my family and I want my kids-boys and girls to see, there is nothing that their gender precludes them from doing. if you're proud of your home and family, you tend not to have a problem cooking a meal or cleaning up afterward. I do wash as needed, clean the bathroom, etc... I do what needs to be done as I am able and my wife does as well. My wife also works. She doesnt have to, but the extra cash is making day to day life and our future more comfortable,with more choices.
So my kids see that those in a family who are able, do.

I do draw the line at cleaning gutters, mowing the lawn and changing oil in the cars. Those are Dad only things right now. I'm sure the wife could, if she had to, though.

You were gonna no matter what-it all leads to gender issues with you sooner or later.

I objected to my wife buying my son a doll house for Christmas when he was like 4 yrs old. Her argument was that whenever she took him to our friends house, my son would play with their daughter's doll house and have fun.
My opinion is that yes, he had fun with it-as I did at my cousins as a kids- we played with her dolls and unicorns etc..., but that was when we were there. I didnt need them and these gender specific items werent missed when we werent there. And when she was over, we played with my Tonka trucks as well as Planet of the Apes figures, hotwheels etc...
So, shortly after Christmas, when my son no longer paid any attention to the doll house, I gave it to my secretary for her daughter. My son never missed it.
I probably wont buy a football for my daughter, unless she specifically wants one at some point.
And I'll never buy makeup or Dora shoes that light up for my boys,even if they watch the show.
:D Well, I won't be buying makeup for my girls either. But they love those Dora shoes!

That's what I mean about not pushing it...I'm not going to buy my daughter a dump truck, just so she has 'boy toys' too. In fact, I don't buy many toys at all. It's a waste of money. Kids get tired of them, and play with the boxes anyway!

I think you and I are actually on the same page here. My one daughter is nothing like me...she loves dolls, loves all those 'girly' things, and the other is a scary copy of me as a kid...climbing trees already, playing MONSTER! and wihtout the patience to baby a doll. Both ways are fine. The one uses a broom like a broom...the other uses it like a sword.

The reason (if you're at all interested) I'm so about gender issues when it comes to raising kids, is because in bothy my parent's families, and in my husband's family, gender determined the attention you got from parents. Boys were always better because they were boys, and they were clearly treated better. That kind of favouritism sickened my parents, and they made sure to raise us with the knowledge we were equally loved. My husband can't stand the way his mother is like a servant in her own house...and that is her choice...but her youngest daughter is 11 and she is growing up to think she should be a servant too...we don't want that happening in our family. Everyone should help out, and all my children are precious to me.

I have a single overarching philosophy when it comes to children...

They're adults in training. As a parent, it's our primary responsibility to prepare them for the world that they'll have to deal with when they're adults.

They need to be protected from some of the harshness of the world while they're still learning and are unprepared for it, but they need to understand that the world is not a rosy, peachy-keen place.

Some of the immediate fall outs of this philosophy....

1) You don't always get what you want. And the reason isn't always rational. Sometimes I actually deny my children something they want simply because they've been getting their way too much that day. They need to understand that life doesn't unfold so that you get what you want all the time.

2) I don't give in to crying or whining. It's not a skill that serves you in real life and I will not endorse it. Cry all you want, you get nothing for it. Whining gets you into a worse circumstance than that which you're whining about (i.e. you lose something if you whine incessantly).

3) I don't insulate my children from the fact that there is horror in the world. They know that there's bad people out there. They know that all people die. They know that some people suffer needlessly.


Now, some think my attitude is a bit harsh on the subject. Some think that children should grow up in a magical little world full of positivity and wonder. I say that such a notion is naive and detrimental to the child's future life.

I'd rather my children be ready to deal with reality by the time their adults and have the price be a little bit of wonderment from their childhood than to have them get smacked in the face with the difficulties of life when they find out that the world isn't here to kiss their feet simply because they exist.

60-70 years of life when you're well prepared for it is much more important than 10-15 years of pure fantasy just because it's fun.

I can't tell you the amount of imaginary food I eat every day ...
...should be fat by now from it! No doubt...both of them love spooning air into my mouth. We have a plastic tea set and have to sit down for a meal at least six times a day! Even the imaginary spider gets a plate:).

5] Learn to say no. Your child may want to play softball, football, be in band, sing in choir, be on the debate team, and all of that; but they simply cannot. They may not realise they cannot. You are the adult. You know that sometimes you have to turn down offers because you've already got other things on your plate. It's an essential life skill. Tell them no.

Most of what you said sounded good, but I've got to disagree a little on this. When they are very young, you are going to have to tell them what they can and cannot handle - sure. However, as they begin to get older, you should probably leave that decision up to them more.

When I was in high school, I learned for myself what it is to overextend yourself - and learning by doing works better than not learning but having someone tell you. My mother made it clear that my studies were the absolute priority, and I agreed - so they were. On top of that I worked part-time, was in band, quiz bowl, NHS, Beta Club, Science Club, Math Club, Math Team, Literary, Class council, and I'm probably leaving something out. I was able to juggle it - to handle it, but learned first-hand what it means to try and do too much, and end up getting swamped. If my mother had said, "You can't handle all that, so you can't do it," I never would've learned the lesson.

Nod ... I was very surprised. I think I was more surprised than she was. Nothing like that has happened since, though. People keep telling me to "wait until they're teenagers" .....


I dont tell people how to raise their kids.

All I will suggest (from experience) is that you make an effort never to act when you're angry. These things have a way of getting out of control. I know your kids are likely the most important things in your life. I know I wouldnt be able to live with myself if I injured one of them by mistake, let alone in anger.

I'm just giving you my opinion. Keep in mind I'm very conscious of my own response when angered or impatient. Before I was married and had kids, acting on rage was an issue. With you, it may have never been a problem.
I've had to deal with that since I had kids. I wish I'd done it before. But I have a more compelling reason to do so now!

I do draw the line at cleaning gutters, mowing the lawn and changing oil in the cars. Those are Dad only things right now. I'm sure the wife could, if she had to, though.
Yeah...but men need to feel useful for something....[/jk]

Actually, those were always things I left to the husband, one because he knew how to do them better than I, and two, because he actually seemed to like it. Now that's he's gone so often, sometimes I need to do these things. I kind of like it though...I feel more capable, and when he's just too damn tired, he knows I can do it, and it's not a big deal.

But he still cooks on the BBQ better than me, so that's his job. That and making bread :p

He lets me take care of the laundry. He's just friggin hopeless with the laundry (putting it away I mean). I hate how he rolls up the socks. So I just do it my way, and we're both happy!

I've had to deal with that since I had kids. I wish I'd done it before. But I have a more compelling reason to do so now!I've had little siblings. That was quite efficient anger training. I was the eldest and the other two were "too little to hurt" me... I had to figure out ways of venting my anger without hurting them. I've resorted to carrying them into their room and holding the door closed. That really helped me when I nearly got into a fight with a youth at work. I didn't hit back but I didn't back down either. In the end, he got charged with assault and I didn't, something I'm very proud of. :)

all i can say for now is: haaaaaahaaaaaahaaaaa haaaaaa haaaa haaa aa! oh and why?

All I will suggest (from experience) is that you make an effort never to act when you're angry.

Heh ... well that's what was so surprising about it. I never get angry. I mean really ... I never get angry. Practically Buddha-like with one of those "patience of Job" personalities.

Except for that one strange moment in time, I wasn't aware I had any anger to act out of. But, it is done.

I dont tell people how to raise their kids.

All I will suggest (from experience) is that you make an effort never to act when you're angry. These things have a way of getting out of control. I know your kids are likely the most important things in your life. I know I wouldnt be able to live with myself if I injured one of them by mistake, let alone in anger.
It may be silly, but I count. I count to ten in my head if they do something that really made me mad. And if I need them to stop, I count out loud too. If I'm still that angry at the end of 10 seconds, I'm at least calm enough to put them in their room instead of doing something stupid.

You don't think straight when you're angry...and your priorities are skewed. Having them shut up so you can talk on the phone is not worth flying into a rage over. It really isn't. And if you give yourself a bit of time, you'll remember that again.

It can be very hard...especially when you aren't prepared for it. Like you're trying to rush out the door in the morning with them and suddenly one knocks a glass onto the floor and there's a mess to clean up. Of course you'll be irritated...but they no more did it right now at this second to slow you down than they would have at any other time. And at any other time, you'd be calmer, because you'd have that time to clean it up. So make it any other time. Sometimes you just have to be late.

And that's another thing. Work and kids. Work is how you provide for your kids, but if it starts interfering with your ability to raise your kids, you need to make a choice between them. I made sure I went into a profession with some flexibility. I'm the consistent parent, where my husband can't be because of his work. And that's fine. At least one of us is always available for emergencies, or whatever. It's a sacrifice, but one that's worth it.

I think you and I are actually on the same page here. My one daughter is nothing like me...she loves dolls, loves all those 'girly' things, and the other is a scary copy of me as a kid...climbing trees already, playing MONSTER! and wihtout the patience to baby a doll. Both ways are fine. The one uses a broom like a broom...the other uses it like a sword.

[QUOTE]

I agree-we are.

[QUOTE=Sinuhue]
The reason (if you're at all interested) I'm so about gender issues when it comes to raising kids, is because in bothy my parent's families, and in my husband's family, gender determined the attention you got from parents. Boys were always better because they were boys, and they were clearly treated better. That kind of favouritism sickened my parents, and they made sure to raise us with the knowledge we were equally loved. My husband can't stand the way his mother is like a servant in her own house...and that is her choice...but her youngest daughter is 11 and she is growing up to think she should be a servant too...we don't want that happening in our family. Everyone should help out, and all my children are precious to me.

I was interested and I see what you are saying. There is an odd circumstance in my family as well- my parents fell all over my oldest son- their first and only grandchild for 5 years- they seem a bit indifferent toward my other two kids. My 6 yr old is aware of it, my daughter doesnt seem to care. (privately, this is heartbreaking to my wife and I. We cant understand it.)
Yes- I believe in a family, each should do as they are able-My family is almost communist in that regard. And I am a dictator in my house, although very benevolent. My wife and I make many of the family decisions together, but ultimately, the buck stops with me. We dont have a lot of family votes and I expect my children to be obedient without questioning. I explain myself when I see fit, but my children understand I dont OWE them an explanation for everything.
I am not like all the other parents you see in public or at functions calmy trying to explain to little Joshua that running across the street isnt a good idea. I issue an order and they comply without question-most of the time.
My oldest understands this now, accepts thats I'm not selfish and so far, I know best. They also know I'm never mean and generally,I'm a really fun Dad that gives them a lot of freedom and respect.

It may be silly, but I count. I count to ten in my head if they do something that really made me mad. And if I need them to stop, I count out loud too. If I'm still that angry at the end of 10 seconds, I'm at least calm enough to put them in their room instead of doing something stupid.




Thats not the east bit silly. I think its what experts recommend and it works for you. We're all prone to mistakes. This counting will likely reduce the possibilty you'll make one.
And if you feel silly, its certainly better than the possible alternatives-guilt, remorse and misery.


I'll take silly any day.

I was interested and I see what you are saying. There is an odd circumstance in my family as well- my parents fell all over my oldest son- their first and only grandchild for 5 years- they seem a bit indifferent toward my other two kids. My 6 yr old is aware of it, my daughter doesnt seem to care. (privately, this is heartbreaking to my wife and I. We cant understand it.) .
I know the feeling. My father's mother gushed over me because I was the first grandchild.....and better yet, the first born of her precious son. She took me on expensive shopping trips for my birthday, sent money with cards for all the holidays, let me stay over....and completely ignored my brothers. All of them. She didn't even bother to really learn their names all that well. So even though she treated me like a princess, I resented her for the way she made my brothers feel.

My mother's mom raised my cousin, and so I guess my cousin was more like a daughter than a grandchild...but she never babysat for my mom (even though this is almost a given in native culture) whereas she always babysat for other aunties. And now my Kookum wants us to love her and spend time with her. I hardly know the bag. Forget it!

The only thing that impacts my kids is that my husband's family expects a boy. The girls are fine, but he's the last male of the line, and they're all about him 'continuing the name'. He could care less. They will value a male 'heir' more than their granddaughters. That's pretty sad.

I am not like all the other parents you see in public or at functions calmy trying to explain to little Joshua that running across the street isnt a good idea. I issue an order and they comply without question-most of the time.
My oldest understands this now, accepts thats I'm not selfish and so far, I know best. They also know I'm never mean and generally,I'm a really fun Dad that gives them a lot of freedom and respect.I've had different experiences with this, but I guess that comes from me not having kids of my own :p
I've always had to ask the kids at work whether they'd like to eat their food from the streets when they danced on the tables with their shoes on...

The only thing that impacts my kids is that my husband's family expects a boy. The girls are fine, but he's the last male of the line, and they're all about him 'continuing the name'. He could care less. They will value a male 'heir' more than their granddaughters. That's pretty sad.


It is sad, but isnt it more a cultural thing with them ?

It is sad, but isnt it more a cultural thing with them ?
Very much so. I often say that Chilean culture is very much like Canadian culture about 50 years ago. The same kinds of attitudes I can see in my grandparents, or great-grandparents are still common in Chile. My husband has really changed a lot in that regard...he's 100% Canadian in his attitudes now. At the very least, my kids will see that these kinds of old-fashioned attitudes are waning, and not that common anymore...but I DO worry that if we live in Chile (as is possible), our family will be seen as weird. Well, I guess we will anyway, being foreigners (even my husband, being gone for 14 years is considered foreign). Oh well. My kids will be fine. It's my nieces and nephew I worry about...they're being raised with 50s values in the 00s.*shrugs* Not really my problem, I know.

the important rules of life:
1. you are the most important thing you have
2. the goal is power. Power over everything and everyone and if you fail you should die
3. weakness is bad.
4. trust no one. Trust will get you killed.
5. Never imtertact stay hidden or you will die
6. there is nothing but you. no one cares about you so you won't care about them
7. the world hates you so you should hate it
8. if you hate it destroy it
9. emotions are weakness
10. to fight and to die are worthy causes

I know the feeling. My father's mother gushed over me because I was the first grandchild.....and better yet, the first born of her precious son. She took me on expensive shopping trips for my birthday, sent money with cards for all the holidays, let me stay over....and completely ignored my brothers. All of them. She didn't even bother to really learn their names all that well. So even though she treated me like a princess, I resented her for the way she made my brothers feel.We've only had any sort of "problem" with that when my German grandmother married again. Her husband favored my little brother somewhat, and it really bugged my sister.
I was the first grandchild for my German grandparents but not for my American ones. The only special treatment I got over my siblings was the only visit my American Grandparents made to Germany. But that was it, really.

I am not like all the other parents you see in public or at functions calmy trying to explain to little Joshua that running across the street isnt a good idea. I issue an order and they comply without question-most of the time.
My oldest understands this now, accepts thats I'm not selfish and so far, I know best. They also know I'm never mean and generally,I'm a really fun Dad that gives them a lot of freedom and respect.
I envy you this one. My kid is too flighty...she doesn't obey instantly. Sometimes she doesn't even hear me. Yelling doesn't seem to help. I'm not sure what to do with her when she's like that. The consequences haven't yet changed her behaviour.

This thread has just exploded! I can hardly keep up at times!
You jinxed it... :(

I was about to say the same thing! Damn!

nope lemme help

I guess it could have happened at a worse time. The libry (I misspelled it on purpose) is about to close anyway :p

You jinxed it... :(

Damn, turned out to be true and all.... Well let that be a lesson to you. Sods law is still as spiteful as ever.

I envy you this one. My kid is too flighty...she doesn't obey instantly. Sometimes she doesn't even hear me. Yelling doesn't seem to help. I'm not sure what to do with her when she's like that. The consequences haven't yet changed her behaviour.


My kids get like that too sometimes, but if I repeat myself quietly,through my teeth, they get it.

I dont have any public lessons, reprimands or displays. I hate listening to some dopey parent going into a long explanation with a child.

My kids get like that too sometimes, but if I repeat myself quietly,through my teeth, they get it.

I dont have any public lessons, reprimands or displays. I hate listening to some dopey parent going into a long explanation with a child.
Agreed. It's about the same for me as a couple fighting in public. That kind of stuff is better done in private. I will go into a long explanation about other things, like things we see, or whatever, but not about why they shouldn't do something. Unless it's a really good 'teachable moment' you couldn't replicate in the home...like why running to pick up a horse turd is a bad idea:).

You need to be consistent on what is and is not appropriate from day one.

You need to make sure you NEVER give into a child's misbehavior. The first time you reward a child for behaving badly will start a spiral of bad behavior. I've seen parents buy their kids whatever because the kid was throwing a screaming fit in a store. All that does is prove that you cave when they scream. Don't, for your own sanity and for their own good.

You need to be able to listen to your kids and let them explain themselves. Things that drive you insane make sense from their point of view. Explain why (whatever) is not permissible.

Explain clearly when a behavior occurs why it was good. If you can, reward it.

Explain clearly when a misbehavior occurs why it is not going to be tolerated. I've found a three strikes rule works well here -- first time, explain why not and the consequence. Second time, remind of the consequence. Third time, follow through. The consequence can be anything from five minutes on your time-out step to "Since you wouldn't pick up your Legos and I had to, you cannot play with them for a week," to "Since you wouldn't stop tormenting your sister about not going to the birthday party with you, you can stay home too." Make sure the punishment fits the crime and is not WAAAAY overblown.

Expect good manners at home and you won't have to discipline for poor manners in public.

Try to keep a sense of humor about it.

Catch your kids being good, and reward them for it -- and a reward doesn't always have to be more than, "I am really proud of you for volunteering to help your grandmother."

Include them in family decisions as appropriate. Deciding as a family whether to go to see a movie or go bowling teaches them they are part of the family, their opinion is weighed, and that everyone has to compromise sometimes.

Love and respect them. And remember that when you discipline them, it is BECAUSE you love and respect them.

You need to be consistent on what is and is not appropriate from day one. [QUOTE]

Absolutely.

[QUOTE=Katganistan]
<purge>



I agree. I think you have covered all, if not most of the bases.

*snip*
You're sounding an awful lot like a teacher.... :D

(we had a "caught ya being good!" program at my last school)

Was it that he was doing it in a "joking" or "friendly" way? Kinda like how my Dad called us "Knuckleheads"?

Or did he do it out of anger?

Hehehehehe, my favorite uncle used to tell us when we misbehaved, "You kids stop fighting or I'll come down there and pull your livers out through your noses! I'm gonna show you your pancreas! I'm gonna rip out your hearts and feed them to the dogs...!'

All while coming down the stairs to get down on the floor with us and let the eight of us play "cowboy" by riding him like a horse. And pretending his own stomach was going to jump up out of his throat and strangle him for all the agita we gave him. He was so obviously NOT serious -- and he was a favorite for playing with a bunch of 5-9 year old like this. ;) Amazing none of us became doctors with the constant anatomy reviews we got...

Hehehehehe, my favorite uncle used to tell us when we misbehaved, "You kids stop fighting or I'll come down there and pull your livers out through your noses! I'm gonna show you your pancreas! I'm gonna rip out your hearts and feed them to the dogs...!'




Was your favorite uncle "Moe" from the "Simpsons"?

I'm betting that someone's already said this, but here's something that my parents did with me and seems to be working fine (at least for me; I have waaay more freedoms than any of my friends, and am also hardly in trouble with my parents) is to, for your rules, do nothing more than set a general boundary/ies, so that anything they do below that boundary, they can do without having to worry about getting in trouble (or even really having to ask you for permission), but the moment they cross that boundary, they're in deep shit... I dunno, it seems to work...

Just my 2 cents on this...

Was your favorite uncle "Moe" from the "Simpsons"?

Uncie moes family feedbag!

Now that I think about it, that reallly sounds like Moe, doesn't it? Does he run a bar, Kat?

You're sounding an awful lot like a teacher.... :D

(we had a "caught ya being good!" program at my last school)

;) I suppose so -- and also, as one of 15 grandkids who were fairly "communally" raised as our extended family gets together pretty often.

My students often ask me when I am going to have kids -- my usual answer is, "*snort* I DO have kids -- 400 a year. What, you want me to go home to them too?" ;) This often provokes laughs.

I also have nieces and nephews to deal with -- I know it's not the same, but ---

Actually you'd be amazed at what a ridiculous little reward can do. I keep stickers because of the 9th graders I am teaching. We had a bomb scare in my school, and after 2 cold, tense hours in the rain (where the students had no idea WHY we were in the rain) we headed back indoors. My seniors were understandably upset, and whiny the way only teens can be.

I closed my eyes and asked the worst of them, "Would you feel better if I gave you a sticker?" out of sheer not-knowing-what-else-to-do. (And frustration, because while *I* knew what had been going on, we could not inform the students until the principal addressed them as a body and sent home letters with them.)

To my surprise, the young man said, "Yes." So I gave him one -- and saw 33 more sets of eyes on me.

"Do you all want stickers?"

I am quite certain my colleagues would have been very amused at the sight of me, dripping wet, walking up and down the aisles handing out stickers to all my seniors.

Was your favorite uncle "Moe" from the "Simpsons"?

Nope, John from New Yawk. ;) And no, never ran a bar. LOL this predates the Simpsons -- I can remember when they were a five minute short on the Tracey Ullman show...

I am quite certain my colleagues would have been very amused at the sight of me, dripping wet, walking up and down the aisles handing out stickers to all my seniors.

Ha ha, that's so cute. I think a lot of people still like kid stuff and just don't want to admit it. Heck, I'm 20 and I still watch Mister Rogers whenever I get the chance.

As for raising kids, I don't have any and don't want any for a long time, but I've always been interested in child development. Two things I really feel adamantly about are the following:

1) Junk food. There are tons of articles and blurbs nowadays about how childhood obesity is a problem, but I honestly don't think depriving a child of eating what he or she wants is going to help any. I remember when I was younger we'd bake a cake now and then, and if I wanted a piece of it for breakfast the next day, my mom had no problem with it. If I wanted a candy bar, I ate it. Her philosphy (and mine now, too) is that the body (not just kids') knows what it wants, and even if they want a particular food every day, they're not going to want it forever. If you're deprived of what you want to eat, or you feel guilty for eating it, it will only cause food issues later on. I was able to eat cookies and candy and what have you when I was younger. A cookie before dinner has never "spoiled my appetite."

2) Incessant scolding. I was at the fair the other day with my mom, and there was another mother with two young children in a wagon eating at the next table. This mother was getting on her kids' cases for every little thing they did. Truth be told, she seemed to me to be causing more trouble than her children were. Also, my mom works in a hardware store and she tells me that she always sees parents in there with their kids, and the child is looking at stuff, asking what it is or if they can have it. The parent's response is usually "Put that down!" or "Leave that alone, you don't need that!" That kind of thing absolutely disgusts me. I can understand that it must be difficult to have to answer endless questions, but I really don't think letting your impatience get in the way should play a role in it. Kids are naturally curious, and it's not a bad thing for them to want a new toy or whatever it is they want. I think it's stupid for parents to get mad when their kid wants something, because EVERYBODY wants things, not just kids.

Just my two cents.

Your philosophy (see above) can be summed up in:

Don't sweat the little stuff.

And I agree.

LOL this predates the Simpsons -- I can remember when they were a five minute short on the Tracey Ullman show...

*sigh...feeling old*
I can too.

I was given really good advice when I was pregnant with my first:

Don't take things personally

Pick your battles

It's served me quite well. My son is probably one of the best behaved three year old's I've ever come across. My husband and I get a lot of compliments on his behavior. Especially after a particulary trying airplane ride, many people came up to us at baggage claim and said they didn't even know we had kids with us. I would like to take credit for it, but can only partially. His temperament has a lot to do with it. I can tell already he is going to require much different discipline than his sister. She's a whole other story. :rolleyes:

My first is a real hellion...but she's a charmer. She loves people and will talk to complete strangers in the store. People take to her right away. She doesn't show them her frenetic side:). My youngest is very mellow, not quite as open with others, but still free with the smiles, and she charms everyone too. At the least, most of their bad behaviour is around us, and not in public *whew!*.

Another piece of advice...don't listen to anyone's advice when you're pregnant. All the women seem to want to tell you horror stories about how bad their labour was, and total strangers think it's okay to touch your belly. Put on a shirt when you first get knocked up, and don't take it off until you deliver that says, "Back the f*ck off!" :eek:

My first is a real hellion...but she's a charmer. She loves people and will talk to complete strangers in the store. People take to her right away. She doesn't show them her frenetic side:). My youngest is very mellow, not quite as open with others, but still free with the smiles, and she charms everyone too. At the least, most of their bad behaviour is around us, and not in public *whew!*.

Another piece of advice...don't listen to anyone's advice when you're pregnant. All the women seem to want to tell you horror stories about how bad their labour was, and total strangers think it's okay to touch your belly. Put on a shirt when you first get knocked up, and don't take it off until you deliver that says, "Back the f*ck off!" :eek:


Ha ha! Too true! But once I told people I was planning a home birth they backed off all by themselves. I don't know why...maybe it scares people that I can put myself through that? *shrug*

It's served me quite well. My son is probably one of the best behaved three year old's I've ever come across. My husband and I get a lot of compliments on his behavior. Especially after a particulary trying airplane ride, many people came up to us at baggage claim and said they didn't even know we had kids with us. I would like to take credit for it, but can only partially. His temperament has a lot to do with it. I can tell already he is going to require much different discipline than his sister. She's a whole other story. :rolleyes:

Good for you, Muntoo. Keeping kids comfortable and occupied on an airplane is a feat-you really deserve a reward. I've been through that a few times-as a parent. Before I was a parent, I was pissed at people with whining kids annoyng me when I paid $850.00 for a ticket.

How are you, by the way?

Ha ha! Too true! But once I told people I was planning a home birth they backed off all by themselves. I don't know why...maybe it scares people that I can put myself through that? *shrug*
I don't know what goes through people's minds when they think of home births. I guess the idea of laying flat on your back in a hospital is the norm now.

My aunt had two of her kids outside of the hospital, not on purpose though:). One was in an elevator (no, really!) and the other was at her cabin in the bush. Most of my other aunties were convinced into having C-sections...I guess she kind of proves that it's not that hard for the women in my family to do it the natural way:).

You all seem to think that kids are a good thing. :) All I've got to go on is my three year old brother, who's like I was at that age… a bloody-minded mule. I used to be horrified at the idea of having kids.

Good for you, Muntoo. Keeping kids comfortable and occupied on an airplane is a feat-you really deserve a reward. I've been through that a few times-as a parent. Before I was a parent, I was pissed at people with whining kids annoyng me when I paid $850.00 for a ticket.

How are you, by the way?


Hi CL! I'm doin' okay...the little one is teething, so I'm getting maybe an hour and a half of sleep at a time these days. So, pretty tired.

As for the plane trip, I just made sure I nursed the baby, so with that, she couldn't have cared less about anything else. My son is usually a very active little boy, so I had to make sure I was prepared. I bought him his own little carry-on bag and filled it with pages from his workbook, crayons, glue, flashcards and stickers. It was a short flight, but I'm glad I took the effort, it paid off.

I hear you about the annoying kids. One flight from Seattle to Chicago, I had a little boy kicking my seat for the whole flight. The dad did nothing, even though my husband turned around numerous times to tell him to stop it.

Okay, then let me ask you: Is being a parent as rewarding as everyone says it is?
And then some!
You learn such valuable things about yourself & the world around you.
I have 2 girls & I wouldn't trade them for anything.
I see so much of myself in them sometimes it scares me.
Every gray hair I get is well spent as far as i'm concerned.

Hi CL! I'm doin' okay...the little one is teething, so I'm getting maybe an hour and a half of sleep at a time these days. So, pretty tired.

As for the plane trip, I just made sure I nursed the baby, so with that, she couldn't have cared less about anything else. My son is usually a very active little boy, so I had to make sure I was prepared. I bought him his own little carry-on bag and filled it with pages from his workbook, crayons, glue, flashcards and stickers. It was a short flight, but I'm glad I took the effort, it paid off.

I hear you about the annoying kids. One flight from Seattle to Chicago, I had a little boy kicking my seat for the whole flight. The dad did nothing, even though my husband turned around numerous times to tell him to stop it.

Hang in there-my 20 mo old daughter seemed to teeth in bursts-several at a time. We lucked out with her. My 11 year old had colic till he was 14 mos old and didnt sleep more than three hours a night that whole time. I was groggy for months.
Yeah-I'm sure the dad had no clue his little prince was bothering you. I woulda spoken to him. Quietly and through my teeth.

I don't know what goes through people's minds when they think of home births. I guess the idea of laying flat on your back in a hospital is the norm now.

My aunt had two of her kids outside of the hospital, not on purpose though:). One was in an elevator (no, really!) and the other was at her cabin in the bush. Most of my other aunties were convinced into having C-sections...I guess she kind of proves that it's not that hard for the women in my family to do it the natural way:).

The elevator! That's classic...

Yeah, homebirth is pretty devoid of drama, although Brennan was so excited for Ada to come that he created his own drama. Once he got to hold her after she was born, he didn't want to give her up. He called her 'his baby'.

The idea of homebirth just wasn't that alien to me because my mom was a homebirth as well. In fact, one of her aunts delivered her because there wasn't time to get a midwife. :D

Hang in there-my 20 mo old daughter seemed to teeth in bursts-several at a time. We lucked out with her. My 11 year old had colic till he was 14 mos old and didnt sleep more than three hours a night that whole time. I was groggy for months.
Yeah-I'm sure the dad had no clue his little prince was bothering you. I woulda spoken to him. Quietly and through my teeth.


I'm trying! She's just been like for the last few weeks, but with nothing to show for it. I'm fairly fed up with waiting for those little teeth to come in! Since I stay home with the kids, it's pretty much all on me. I don't ask or expect the hubby to pitch in, since he works like ten hours a day. But now at this point he's wanting to help since I've been like a cranky zombie!
Ahh, too bad my hubby isn't a New Jersey Italian!

Yeah-I'm sure the dad had no clue his little prince was bothering you. I woulda spoken to him.
Oh...that term just sparked a memory...we were living up in Inuvik at the time, and were only in 'civilisation' once or twice a year. I went home with my daughter, and during a summer festival in the city, we found a little kid's play area. My daughter was so excited! She was playing in this activity centre (only big enough for one kid) and this man was standing, holding his son and tapping his foot, waiting for her to get out. I wasn't about to rush her, considering there were other EMPTY stations, and the poor thing never got outside because it was still friggin -26 up north. This....man....finally stalked off and said, "I guess we'll just let the little princess play". Passive aggressive asshole. Couldn't face me, so he tried to intimidate my kid, and then made a snide comment. I felt vindicated though later on when I saw the same father look completely frazzled while his kid had a temper tantrum and threw and ice-cream at him. I met the father's eyes and said, "looks like it's nap time for the little prince".

Oh I just get touchy when it comes to my kids. I think many people do.

I should add, before you all jump down my throat for being a bitch, that the son didn't want that particular station...he wasn't crying and pointing and demanding, and seemed more inclined to go on the rocking horses, so this insistance on that particular station on the dad's part seemed a bit perverse to me.

I'm trying! She's just been like for the last few weeks, but with nothing to show for it. I'm fairly fed up with waiting for those little teeth to come in! Since I stay home with the kids, it's pretty much all on me. I don't ask or expect the hubby to pitch in, since he works like ten hours a day. But now at this point he's wanting to help since I've been like a cranky zombie!
Ahh, too bad my hubby isn't a New Jersey Italian!
Teething is hell. And it goes on long enough to make you truly believe you're being punished for something. Both my daughters will teeth for a week, with no teeth erupting, then again, and again, and again, and again...and sometimes AGAIN until they finally appear. Oragel does nothing. Tylenol helps a bit...but the lack of sleep is pretty constant. My sleep over these past 3 years has become so broken that even on the rare occasions when the hubby takes the kids for the night, I can't actually sleep without waking up three or four times. I'm just too used to it. Oh well. I'll sleep when I'm dead. (ZEVON!)

Oh...that term just sparked a memory...we were living up in Inuvik at the time, and were only in 'civilisation' once or twice a year. I went home with my daughter, and during a summer festival in the city, we found a little kid's play area. My daughter was so excited! She was playing in this activity centre (only big enough for one kid) and this man was standing, holding his son and tapping his foot, waiting for her to get out. I wasn't about to rush her, considering there were other EMPTY stations, and the poor thing never got outside because it was still friggin -26 up north. This....man....finally stalked off and said, "I guess we'll just let the little princess play". Passive aggressive asshole. Couldn't face me, so he tried to intimidate my kid, and then made a snide comment. I felt vindicated though later on when I saw the same father look completely frazzled while his kid had a temper tantrum and threw and ice-cream at him. I met the father's eyes and said, "looks like it's nap time for the little prince".

Oh I just get touchy when it comes to my kids. I think many people do.

Touche'.. sometimes, what goes around comes around. Really quick.

Oh I just get touchy when it comes to my kids. I think many people do.

Yup. I hate that passive aggressive crap. If I find someone staring at me or my kids I usually confront them with a polite, "Can I help you?"

That usually does the trick. I may be small, but I'm MIGHTY! :D

Ahh, too bad my hubby isn't a New Jersey Italian!

I'm so much worse than that, Muntoo. I was born in Brooklyn. The Fuckin Islands, just off the coast.

I migrated to New Jerey.

I'm the worst of both worlds....

Yup. I hate that passive aggressive crap. If I find someone staring at me or my kids I usually confront them with a polite, "Can I help you?"




I usually pick a one of their prominant features or distinctive clothing and say "You got a problem, besides that fucking hat/nose/toupee/breath?

Yup. I hate that passive aggressive crap. If I find someone staring at me or my kids I usually confront them with a polite, "Can I help you?"

That usually does the trick. I may be small, but I'm MIGHTY! :D
I've gotten burned for this story before on NS, but I'll share it with parents who might understand...

We were in a book store, my husband, and my daughter who was 2 and a half at the time. She was behaving pretty well, but at one point she ran around a bookshelf and was giggling. My husband went to get her, and saw a woman who was sitting, reading a book (bookstore, NOT library) give my daughter a dirty look and say, "Shut up you little (something he didn't quite hear, but I doubt it was 'angel')!". When he said, "What did you say?" the woman jumped, gave him a scared look, and mumbled 'nothing' or something like that. She hadn't realised anyone had heard her. Then my husband said something along the lines of, "If you have a problem with a kid, take it to the parent, not to the kid."

I think a lot of people are rude to kids in a way that would never fly with an adult. Dirty looks. Mutters...things a young child can't tell someone about, and things that of course are intimidating to children. Yet when it comes time to say something to an adult, people get quiet or falsely polite. I hate that. You should be treating kids with as much respect as adults...and if kids are acting like shits, take it to the parents.

All of you seem to parents so I have a question for you. Do you think how much time you spend with your children affects how they behave/their temperment? Just wondering.

I'm so much worse than that, Muntoo. I was born in Brooklyn. The Fuckin Islands, just off the coast.

I migrated to New Jerey.

I'm the worst of both worlds....


Hey, my dad was born in the Bronx! Then migrated to LA...that's just the weirder of both worlds I think...

Sinuhue, that is horrible. Your husband was much more restrained than I would have been. Good for him.
I also can't stand it when people have unrealistic expectations of children...like that they should be quiet all the time etc.

Hey, my dad was born in the Bronx! Then migrated to LA...that's just the weirder of both worlds I think...

Sinuhue, that is horrible. Your husband was much more restrained than I would have been. Good for him.
I also can't stand it when people have unrealistic expectations of children...like that they should be quiet all the time etc.Oo I hate that too so, I hate it when people take munchkins to things where you are expected to be quiet concerts etc.

All of you seem to parents so I have a question for you. Do you think how much time you spend with your children affects how they behave/their temperment? Just wondering.
Absolutely. I see it kind of like a bell curve. Too little time, and you get bad results. Too much time and you get bad results. A happy medium, where you have time away from them, and they have time away from you seems to work best (with me anyway). Also...just 'being around' isn't enough. We all hate the cliché 'quality time', but it's cliché because it's true. Even a few minutes of one-on-one time is better than an hour of just being in the same house together.

Also, in young children, touch and speech is important. Babies who aren't spoken to (or otherwise communicated with) or touched enough don't develop healthy nervous systems. They actually become hardwired differently, and this affects their sympathetic system. Kids with good communicative and physical stimulation/bonds deal with stress better. In short...little contact, very bad. Hugs and talking, good.

Hey, my dad was born in the Bronx! Then migrated to LA...that's just the weirder of both worlds I think...

Sinuhue, that is horrible. Your husband was much more restrained than I would have been. Good for him.
I also can't stand it when people have unrealistic expectations of children...like that they should be quiet all the time etc.
Well, I can't remember if I told the story the same way the last time (I think I did...but it's been over a year) and last time people said my husband was a real jerk for 'scaring that woman'. Like, it's okay to scare the kid, but heaven's forbid someone account for their actions.

But then again, some people have no tolerance for kids at all, and think the old addage, 'seen but not heard' should apply to all of them.

Oo I hate that too so, I hate it when people take munchkins to things where you are expected to be quiet concerts etc.
No. She said "all the time". Not in situations where quiet is expected. And frankly, a bookstore is not such a place. A library, yes. A theater, yes. A rock concert...not so much...but would you take your kid? Maybe.

If people wanted bookstores to be as quiet as libraries, they wouldn't have started putting Starbucks in them...

Hmmm.....

My dad always had 2 simple rules:

1) Do as you are told.
2) See rule #1
I certainly hope that you didn't become a subservient android!

If people wanted bookstores to be as quiet as libraries, they wouldn't have started putting Starbucks in them...
Exactly.

I just thought I'd let y'all know I'm planning to have seven children someday. Scary isn't it? All those little anarchists running around causing havoc. And if you think that's bad, seven is the figure my partner and I compromised on. I originally wanted 11. She made the very good point that having one set of triplets is highly ulikely, nevermind two.

I just thought I'd let y'all know I'm planning to have seven children someday. Scary isn't it? All those little anarchists running around causing havoc. And if you think that's bad, seven is the figure my partner and I compromised on. I originally wanted 11. She made the very good point that having one set of triplets is highly ulikely, nevermind two.


If you think you can handle that many, that's great. You should wait and see what pregnancy does to your partner though. Sadly, we are stopping at two because the chances of me dying from organ failure with another pregnancy are very high. :(

I just thought I'd let y'all know I'm planning to have seven children someday. Scary isn't it? All those little anarchists running around causing havoc. And if you think that's bad, seven is the figure my partner and I compromised on. I originally wanted 11. She made the very good point that having one set of triplets is highly ulikely, nevermind two.
Hehehehe...I don't want to have kids past 33, so I just might have to adopt to get the 5 we want:).

If you think you can handle that many, that's great. You should wait and see what pregnancy does to your partner though.

My hair is going grey just at the thought of them!

Sadly, we are stopping at two because the chances of me dying from organ failure with another pregnancy are very high. :(

I'm sorry that your body has wrecked your chances of having a football (soccer) team. That's what I was going for.

Hehehehe...I don't want to have kids past 33, so I just might have to adopt to get the 5 we want:).

Holy crap, I hadn't even thought of adoption! I can have two football teams!! :D

Holy crap, I hadn't even thought of adoption! I can have two football teams!! :D
Better buy the uniforms now...once you got that many kids you'll be penniless!

Better buy the uniforms now...once you got that many kids you'll be penniless!

No change there, then. :D

No change there, then. :D
Then again, with that many kids, you could probably start your own uniform factory and have your very own sweatshop industry :D

I wouldn't dare, 22 of them...one of me. Their mother(s) would obviously side with them as well. Now there's a union that strikes fear into the heart of every employer...angry mothers.

If you think you can handle that many, that's great. You should wait and see what pregnancy does to your partner though. Sadly, we are stopping at two because the chances of me dying from organ failure with another pregnancy are very high. :(Woah thats scary

I just thought I'd let y'all know I'm planning to have seven children someday. Scary isn't it? All those little anarchists running around causing havoc. And if you think that's bad, seven is the figure my partner and I compromised on. I originally wanted 11. She made the very good point that having one set of triplets is highly ulikely, nevermind two.

Bah, I'm the oldest of 12. Not two full sports teams, but given that the youngest is 26 years younger than me, I'm not surprised that mom stopped short of the total.

Oh goodie, a how would you raise your child thread. But i keep promising myself that i won't have kids till my career is up and running, so no rush here. Firstly, it would be a vegetarian. I'm planning on being a single mother since i have problems with commitment, so no chances of my partner and i disagreeing. I've come to the conclusion that by giving kids little choices to make, they are more likely to listen to you in the big things. For example, a choice about where they want to go for the weekend would probably make them easier to please throughout it. I also feel that it is important to keep the lines of communication clear, so no forbidden topics. I would rather that my kid come to me for answers than seek them out on a plannedparenthood website like i had to. My child would have chores and limitations, but Rebecca Walker is living proof that people can change and a screwed up childhood is not an indicator of what will happen later on. I would encourage it to try everything once (not including intravenious drugs and prostitution!) and be open minded. Other than that, i would make it clear to not judge people until you know them, repect people, and take responsibility for his/her actions. I would punish it for lying, while in other cases simply explain why what he/she did was wrong.

Holy crap, I hadn't even thought of adoption! I can have two football teams!! :D


Or, and consider this ... a small orchestra. Then, when they're trained and world famous, make sure they have at least 3 kids each themselves and you have a major orchestra, complete with choir.