NationStates Jolt Archive

This question has been haunting me since yesterday. Can I consider myself Christian? I've labelled myself Protestant/Agnostic because I've grown up with various religious influences with Protestantism being the most influential. I do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior, because frankly, I'm not sure he is. I don't have the faith to trust my soul to what might not be true. I'm not sure that Protestantism or even Christianity is the True Faith, since most of them are based on what has been written many centuries ago. So I am an unbeliever (though I positively hate being called that; it makes me feel like whoever is saying it is looking down on me as though I were some idiotic child).
I've grown up Christian, though. I got the basic drift of the Bible and I know plenty of the Bible stories. I have more knowledge of the Bible than a lot of other "unbelievers" I know. Culturally, I'm a Christian.
What is a Christian? Am I a Christian?

A christian is simply a person who believes in the faith of christianity in any form. You are unsure about christianity so either you can look at yourself as a lost christian or an unbeliever, one implies that you are trying to be a christian but are simply temporarily confused about your religion while the other implies that you reject your religion. It all depends on how you want to view the situation but in order to really be a christian of any form you have to believe in certain main points(mainly monotheism with Jesus as some form of savior).

As of now I think no … you are a lot like I am/was for the last couple of years with Christianity

It will sort itself out and personally realizing what my feelings were telling me and accepting them for now greatly increased the happyness in my life

This question has been haunting me since yesterday. Can I consider myself Christian? I've labelled myself Protestant/Agnostic because I've grown up with various religious influences with Protestantism being the most influential. I do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior, because frankly, I'm not sure he is. I don't have the faith to trust my soul to what might not be true. I'm not sure that Protestantism or even Christianity is the True Faith, since most of them are based on what has been written many centuries ago. So I am an unbeliever (though I positively hate being called that; it makes me feel like whoever is saying it is looking down on me as though I were some idiotic child).
I've grown up Christian, though. I got the basic drift of the Bible and I know plenty of the Bible stories. I have more knowledge of the Bible than a lot of other "unbelievers" I know. Culturally, I'm a Christian.
What is a Christian? Am I a Christian?


"I do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior, "

Whatever you are, your definately NOT a christian.

Dude, I've had people try and tell me I'm a Christian because I've grown up in a country with a history of Christian values. That I'm Christian because I believe it's bad to kill, steal, commit adultery, etc. When I've explained that I'm not even Christened, have grown up in a secular family environment and maintained a healthy disrespect for the school's religious curriculum, the morons have still insisted I'm Christian. Frankly, fuck 'em. I'm no Christian.

Short answer: hell, no. The culture isn't enough.

As of now I think no … you are a lot like I am/was for the last couple of years with Christianity

It will sort itself out and personally realizing what my feelings were telling me and accepting them for now greatly increased the happyness in my lifeI'm not really confused... I know that there is no empirical evidence for any religion and making a choice on which religion supersedes all others as the True Faith violates some of my deepest principles. I don't feel able to commit to any faith, but for now, I'll be protestant-like because that's how I grew up.

"I do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior, "

Whatever you are, your definately NOT a christian.I'm aware that that makes me an "unbeliever". Could you explain how that keeps me from being Christian? Just telling me I'm not is not really enough to satisfy my curiousity.

I'm not really confused... I know that there is no empirical evidence for any religion and making a choice on which religion supersedes all others as the True Faith violates some of my deepest principles. I don't feel able to commit to any faith, but for now, I'll be protestant-like because that's how I grew up.
Then you sound more general theist or deist rather then a specific religion

You believe there is a god out there but does not necessarily conform (or has to) any of the religions out there he is “too big” to be pined down by the attempts of man to describe him

You have a tendency to reflect on him being somewhat like the protestant description but seeing the world around you , you are not willing to make the assumption that he like any other religion can be completely described by it.

Am I getting close?

I'm aware that that makes me an "unbeliever". Could you explain how that keeps me from being Christian? Just telling me I'm not is not really enough to satisfy my curiousity.
Simple in the end Christians need to believe that the only way to salvation is belief and attempt at following Jesus Christ

that is the requirement for being "christian"

I'm not really confused... I know that there is no empirical evidence for any religion and making a choice on which religion supersedes all others as the True Faith violates some of my deepest principles. I don't feel able to commit to any faith, but for now, I'll be protestant-like because that's how I grew up.

Why label yourself at all?

What does having some religious label do for you? Socially? Personally? Intellectually?

Perhaps it would do you good to explore several other religious traditions, look at philosophical paths, and get involved in other rituals and community events. Through this process you might discover what you do and do not believe.

You know what? You do not need to believe anything at all unless it helps you in some way.

Why are you seperating Protestant from Christian? Prostestants are Christian.
Reminds me of when someone said "Merry Christmas for those of you who are Catholic". LOL. I was in the middle of a raid in EQ when my fellow Catholic guild member said that, we got into it. haha.

Not mocking or making fun of you in anyway btw. That just came to mind. Follow your heart.

Am I getting close?Yup. :)

Why are you seperating Protestant from Christian? Prostestants are Christian.
Reminds me of when someone said "Merry Christmas for those of you who are Catholic". LOL. I was in the middle of a raid in EQ when my fellow Catholic guild member said that, we got into it. haha.

Not mocking or making fun of you in anyway btw. That just came to mind. Follow your heart.I'm not separating them. I'm just more protestant than any other form of religion (like Catholicism, orthodox Judaism, or Wahabism). That's why I'm asking whether I'm Christian or not.

I'm not really confused... I know that there is no empirical evidence for any religion and making a choice on which religion supersedes all others as the True Faith violates some of my deepest principles. I don't feel able to commit to any faith, but for now, I'll be protestant-like because that's how I grew up.

To allign yourself with a specific faith, let alone denomination just because it is the way you were brought up is hypocritical to me. It's a type of lip service that in the end means nothing to anybody. Not even you.

If you don't believe that Jesus was the physical embodiment of God who was born, lived and died in order for you to be absolved of your sins and be welcome in Heaven than you are simply NOT a Christian of any kind.

I know that as a child I was told these things at school and just never identified with it. My society has tried to push me into a box marked Christian but I never for an instant fell for it, even at five years old! By the time I was eleven I was reading about other religions in order to find out what other people believed. When I was fourteen I came across one that I identified with more than any other but as I have matured I have come to realise that no name can explain how I feel or what I believe. I still identify myself with that religion when asked, but I always make a point of explaining that, broad though the term is, it doesn't do justice to my varied beliefs.

In the modern world it is perfectly acceptable, I think, to pick and choose your religion. There may be elements of Protestantism that you agree with and there may be little bits and pieces from many other religions too. You should read lots and lots about religion if you truely wish to understand your beliefs. Forget labels, focus on your thoughts and feelings and find a way of expressing your beliefs that you are comfortable with. If some one asks you what you are simply shrug and say "A bit of this, a bit of that" and don't be afraid that they might judge you or hold you up as lacking faith. You know what's in your heart, that's all that matters. :-)

I'm aware that that makes me an "unbeliever". Could you explain how that keeps me from being Christian? Just telling me I'm not is not really enough to satisfy my curiousity.


As an Atheist, former Christian, I can tell you that simply put, a Christian is one who has accepted Jesus Christ as his/her personal saviour.

Thats it, in a nutshell.

The rest, is just semantics, and dogma.

You do not need to be a Christian to live a life similar in nature to that religion, ie..thou shalt not kill" etc.

However, you DO need to do the accepting Jesus and the cross...and the bread and wine thing..that helps a lot too.

Its really a very simple question.

You seem to be a moral person...that does not mean that such morality must come from any god.

Yup. :)
You sound a lot like me lol … I have a feeling if I can bring myself to make the faith jump this that is something like what I would believe

You have the Christian heritage, and you seem to acknowledge that there is something out there.

I think a message from our good buddy John may help...

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Though John 3:16 mentions Jesus Christ, the message of this verse is, IMO, that those who believe are those of faith.

But, you can interpret it in any way you like! :)

NO

Here's why (quoting you):

I do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior

I think the real question here is, what do you want to be?

Do you want to be Christian, do you want people to know you're Christian, would it change your behaviour in any way if you considered yourself Christian?
Nobody here can tell you if you are Christian or not, and nobody here can tell you how to become Christian. The first step is to know what you really want...

Seems to me you are quite happy being what you are, so why bother with the label?
I think of myself as Christian, even Catholic, but I know that a good number of Catholics wouldn't agree with that. I don't care. I feel Catholic, and Christian, albeit not the most devout nor the most practising Catholic in the world and always ready to criticise. To me, it is a small but important part of my identity. Do you feel the same way about being Christian?

To allign yourself with a specific faith, let alone denomination just because it is the way you were brought up is hypocritical to me. It's a type of lip service that in the end means nothing to anybody. Not even you.I'm grateful for the rest of your post and I agree with it, but I think you misunderstand me in the part I'm quoting. I would feel hypocritical if I denied that I was in some way protestant, because in a way I am. That's because I grew up in that faith.

I think the real question here is, what do you want to be?

Do you want to be Christian, do you want people to know you're Christian, would it change your behaviour in any way if you considered yourself Christian?
Nobody here can tell you if you are Christian or not, and nobody here can tell you how to become Christian. The first step is to know what you really want...

Seems to me you are quite happy being what you are, so why bother with the label?
I think of myself as Christian, even Catholic, but I know that a good number of Catholics wouldn't agree with that. I don't care. I feel Catholic, and Christian, albeit not the most devout nor the most practising Catholic in the world and always ready to criticise. To me, it is a small but important part of my identity. Do you feel the same way about being Christian?

"Do as you want, as long as you're happy."

I like that.

"Do as you want, as long as you're happy."

I like that.

the sociopath's creed

(AKA "the world is my playground and everything in it... people are the toys")

yes, i know what you meant. hehe

I'm grateful for the rest of your post and I agree with it, but I think you misunderstand me in the part I'm quoting. I would feel hypocritical if I denied that I was in some way protestant, because in a way I am. That's because I grew up in that faith.
How much of that is because of a belief in it rather then a familiarity with it

Over time that will lessen (it did for me and Catholicism)

I'm aware that that makes me an "unbeliever". Could you explain how that keeps me from being Christian? Just telling me I'm not is not really enough to satisfy my curiousity.

I have found that there are two definitions of a Christian. One is the cultural one. When you hear in the news about Christians fighting against the Muslims in places like Albania and Indonesia, it is likely that these people are cultural Christians. If you call yourself a Christian because you are born in a Christian family, then you are a cultural Christian. A spiritual Christian, on the other hand, has personally encountered the living Spirit of Jesus. In order for that to happen, he usually has to be invited, with a child like faith. He also must be considered the new chief of your life (as opposed to yourself). It requires letting go of your own former desires, and being determined to follow His guidance, regardless of the cost. It requires death to the your former ways that would lead you to believe that you are in control of your own life and surrender to no one. In return, Christ enters your life, and places a deposit of His spirit within you. Like the seed that must die before it can really live, so the Christian must continually put to death the old desires, and take up the call of Christ to follow. Like Jesus said, the Kingdom of God is within you, not cultural values or a bunch of rules. Jesus also said that those who belong to him will hear his voice. I guess that means the spiritual one that speaks from within (at least that is the way I have experienced it).

The cost of being a spiritual Christian is very very high. It will cost you everything.

I think the real question here is, what do you want to be?

Do you want to be Christian, do you want people to know you're Christian, would it change your behaviour in any way if you considered yourself Christian?
Nobody here can tell you if you are Christian or not, and nobody here can tell you how to become Christian. The first step is to know what you really want...

Seems to me you are quite happy being what you are, so why bother with the label?
I think of myself as Christian, even Catholic, but I know that a good number of Catholics wouldn't agree with that. I don't care. I feel Catholic, and Christian, albeit not the most devout nor the most practising Catholic in the world and always ready to criticise. To me, it is a small but important part of my identity. Do you feel the same way about being Christian?That's exactly what I've been wondering about. What do others think and why do they think so. I prefer to get a second opinion when I make certain decisions and since all my friends at the Uni are on vacation, the NationStates community will have to do.
I'm not really seeking a label. I really just want my question answered as to whether being influenced by Protestantism as I've been but not willing to take that last step and confirm the faith really makes me a non-Christian.
Thank you very much for your contribution :)

"Do as you want, as long as you're happy."

I like that.

Not quite, but close enough ;)
How could anybody be arrogant enough to judge another person's faith?

the sociopath's creed

(AKA "the world is my playground and everything in it... people are the toys")

yes, i know what you meant. hehe

Okay, okay, okay...I revise it...!

Mmm...

"Do as you want, as long as you're happy, and it doesn't hurt anyone."

Isn't that the Wiccan's ideology? Or is it the Libertarians? :p

<snip>No offence to everyone else, but this is perhaps the best definition and answer to my question so far :)

Am I a Christian?

If you have to ask that question, then I'm afraid the answer is "no."

Don't let others lead you. If you do believe in God, then pray/talk in private, I mean your heart, mind, voice if you want, and ask for guidance. If you do not believe in a God.. I cannot help you there, since I can't comprehend it.

I really just want my question answered as to whether being influenced by Protestantism as I've been but not willing to take that last step and confirm the faith really makes me a non-Christian.

Not in itself. What steps you take and when is up to you; I don't see faith as something static, it evolves and changes all through your life, so who's to say you are no Christian one day and suddenly are one the next?
The important part is how you regard your protestant upbringing. It certainly influenced you, but do you think it is subconciously or do you consciously base desicions on parts of it?

I realise that I'm fairly unorthodox in that, but to me a person who meditates Christian religion and faith, who even criticises it from time to time is more of a Christian than one who just happily accepts all and everything.

Please, no matter which way you go...don't become a fanatic ANYTHING. That's all I ask. Once you start believing that your way is the ONE TRUE WAY, you close the doors to all other forms of knowledge. And then you're not hot anymore :p

Please, no matter which way you go...don't become a fanatic ANYTHING. That's all I ask. Once you start believing that your way is the ONE TRUE WAY, you close the doors to all other forms of knowledge. And then you're not hot anymore :pIt's too late for that... I'm already a fanatic non-smoker...:p

If you have to ask that question, then I'm afraid the answer is "no."I'd really appreciate you telling me reasons why I'm not. That's one of the reasons why I'm asking the question in the first place.

It's too late for that... I'm already a fanatic non-smoker...:p

Ah well, I think we can make concessions there. As long as you promise not to become a fanatic teetotaler...

"Christian" as a term means almost nothing anymore. sad to say.

Anyone can call themselves a "Christian", but live a life or have beliefs that may conflict with others views of others that consider themselves "Christians".

Please, no matter which way you go...don't become a fanatic ANYTHING. That's all I ask. Once you start believing that your way is the ONE TRUE WAY, you close the doors to all other forms of knowledge. And then you're not hot anymore :p

I'm fanatically neutral! :)
Hehe.

I'm an "atheist" / "humanist", but I don't like the words itself, kind'a dull.
I'd like a more powerful sounding label like Muslim or more cryptic like gnostic etc.
Any ideas for a better name for "not-beleaving-in-god-etc" ?
(I know "Bright" is proposed as a less negative label for "not-beleaver", but I feel it kind of sounds like "smart", implying that "beleavers" are not so "bright". Plus in norwegian it sounds more like a weird way of saying "blond")

I'd really appreciate you telling me reasons why I'm not. That's one of the reasons why I'm asking the question in the first place.

Fair enough. If you are a Christian, then you know Jesus personally. He lives in your heart and guides your actions. It's easy to dismiss those who say there is no god because you KNOW him, just as surely as you know your parents or your next-door neighbor. Hence, you also know that you're a Christian, one of his followers, and this is the central, most important aspect of your life.

Therefore it follows that if you don't know whether or not you're a Christian, you're obviously not.

Yes, the thing that's required for you to be a Christian in the truest sense is to love. That's how it is said we will be known; by our love for one another. Plain and simple? Maybe...

In our world we've seen much done by those who profess Christianity that cannot be classified as love in any form. Much of this I think stems back to another more ancient word I haven't seen mentioned in this thread:

Covenant.

Through covenants (pacts, agreements, obligitory vows, testaments...all the same word) we get things like the Crusades, the Inquisition, the killing of the Knights Templar, herecy hunting and just about every war America has ever been in.

A BLOOD Covenant is a covenant that is sealed to the death of those involved. This is what has been offered to the whole world through the shedding of Jesus' blood. Since Jesus is resurrected and now lives, the Covenant (testament we call it today; the NEW testament between God and man) cannot be broken and we are known by our fruits. Whatever you sow (plant) into your life you are going to reap. I sow the bible because I want to reap heaven. You may do as you choose.

Lesser covenants have been made and broken between men down through the eons...not the least of which is marriage, which is a blood covenant as well (breaking of the hymen is shedding of blood...God intended it that way) but has been taken so far from it's origen we think we can do it any way we want to now. We still reap what we've sown in the long run.

Any accord, agreement, resolution that is signed between actual nations is also a form of covenant; and when covenants are broken, often hostilities errupt. The problem with our nation of America lately has been that we forgot what a covenant was and how important it is that the Blood Covenant SUPERCEDES any other covenant of man. The commandment of Jesus to "love thy neighbor" should be stronger in us than the need for any other thing if we desire for God to see us as Christians.

So...are we Christians? Yes.


...and No....

You are currently Not Christian.
Perhaps your Muslim or something.

This question has been haunting me since yesterday. Can I consider myself Christian? I've labelled myself Protestant/Agnostic because I've grown up with various religious influences with Protestantism being the most influential. I do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my savior, because frankly, I'm not sure he is. I don't have the faith to trust my soul to what might not be true. I'm not sure that Protestantism or even Christianity is the True Faith, since most of them are based on what has been written many centuries ago. So I am an unbeliever (though I positively hate being called that; it makes me feel like whoever is saying it is looking down on me as though I were some idiotic child).
I've grown up Christian, though. I got the basic drift of the Bible and I know plenty of the Bible stories. I have more knowledge of the Bible than a lot of other "unbelievers" I know. Culturally, I'm a Christian.
What is a Christian? Am I a Christian?

You can't. You can follow every other Christian regulation, but if you do not accept that you are a sinner and that Jesus Christ, as God, came to Earth as a human being to die for our sins, and then rose from the dead after three days and cleansed your sins, you can't be Christian. Ideologically speaking, of course.

Please, no matter which way you go...don't become a fanatic ANYTHING. That's all I ask. Once you start believing that your way is the ONE TRUE WAY, you close the doors to all other forms of knowledge. And then you're not hot anymore :p I get confused with these words. Which is the one that describes living constantly by the religion, living the fire and in short following Jesus/whatever in every possible way? Fanatic implies…*well, as you say, it implies Omar Bakri.

I have found that there are two definitions of a Christian. One is the cultural one. When you hear in the news about Christians fighting against the Muslims in places like Albania and Indonesia, it is likely that these people are cultural Christians. If you call yourself a Christian because you are born in a Christian family, then you are a cultural Christian. A spiritual Christian, on the other hand, has personally encountered the living Spirit of Jesus. In order for that to happen, he usually has to be invited, with a child like faith. He also must be considered the new chief of your life (as opposed to yourself). It requires letting go of your own former desires, and being determined to follow His guidance, regardless of the cost. It requires death to the your former ways that would lead you to believe that you are in control of your own life and surrender to no one. In return, Christ enters your life, and places a deposit of His spirit within you. Like the seed that must die before it can really live, so the Christian must continually put to death the old desires, and take up the call of Christ to follow. Like Jesus said, the Kingdom of God is within you, not cultural values or a bunch of rules. Jesus also said that those who belong to him will hear his voice. I guess that means the spiritual one that speaks from within (at least that is the way I have experienced it).

The cost of being a spiritual Christian is very very high. It will cost you everything.

I agree. Furthermore, the descriptive word Christian, in its original context was simply used to describe the people that appeared obsessed with Jesus Christ, because basically they wouldn't shut up about him. Assuming that these Christ fanatics weren't just along for the ride (as I'm sure some were, despite the persecution) the descriptive word is originally used to describe someone who's life is completely centered around Christ - to the death. However, as a result of the long Western cultural focus on the religion centered around Christ (thus called Christianity,) people that relate to the dogmas and traditions built around Christianity then call themselves Christian. These are two completely separate things. One is a personal devotion to Christ, the other is basically a co-adjective that would be better described as "Christian-like", "culturally Christian", or just "traditional Western". I would classify myself as a Christian (the first one,) but adapt my traditions to my social atmosphere, much as the first "Christians" helped other cultures to understand "Christianity" by relating to them. You have clearly stated that you are not the first, and are the second. As a result, I voted that you are not a Christian since I find the first definition more important, clear, honest, and more difficult to find a replacement word for.

Honestly, what do I call myself? A "true Christian"? How many times do I have to say "true" to make sure my audience knows I'm talking about the first one and not the second?

Simple in the end Christians need to believe that the only way to salvation is belief and attempt at following Jesus Christ

that is the requirement for being "christian"
No, I wouldn't say that. You can be a Christian, because you are convinced that christianity is the right way for you to salvation. I call myself a catholic, but I'm convinced that there are several roads to salvation.

I know for a fact I'm not a christain, because I'm an Atheist.
Even though one of my parent's is Catholic.
I also Agree with Sinuhue.

Do you even want to be Christian? It's a pretty shit obligation, with no benefits.

A spiritual Christian, on the other hand, has personally encountered the living Spirit of Jesus. [snip] Jesus also said that those who belong to him will hear his voice.
If that were so, I would actually not know anyone who could claim to be a christian, including a couple of priests I know.
I'm very wary of people who claim to have had a personal encounter with Jesus and thus became reborn.