NationStates Jolt Archive

If so, then we need you're help. The consvertaive parties making up the Australian ruling Coalition Government will take control of both Houses of Parliament in a move not seen a generation.

This is perticually dangerous as the government has already begun passing legislation the majority of Australians are opposed to.

So pay vist to GetUp.org (http://www.getup.org.au) (a MoveOne.org affiliate) and stand up for your rights!

If the majority of Australians are opposed to what they're doing, why do they constantly re-elect reps of the conservative parties?

Just more Libs that like to think everyone agrees with them and if they don't they're non-persons.

I think a lot of the Australians who voted for the Liberals in the last election did so because they fell hook line and sinker for the "interest rates will rise under Labor" lie. So far rates have risen twice since the election and Howard and co are fighting like demons to talk the reserve bank into not raising them again.

Anyway while this group sounds good on the surface, we all know deep down it won't make one zot of difference to anything the Libs do. The last thing they give a damm about is the opinion of ordinary working Australians. They will go ahead and use their majority to pass whatever they like. All we can do about it is remember it and not fall for their crap at the next election. Then we may actually get rid of them.

If the majority of Australians are opposed to what they're doing, why do they constantly re-elect reps of the conservative parties?

Just more Libs that like to think everyone agrees with them and if they don't they're non-persons.
Because there is no law stopping out right lies in an Australian election. No to mention preference voting, third-party swing votes mean you don't actually require the majority of people in an electorate to vote for you to win that seat.

I think a lot of the Australians who voted for the Liberals in the last election did so because they fell hook line and sinker for the "interest rates will rise under Labor" lie. So far rates have risen twice since the election and Howard and co are fighting like demons to talk the reserve bank into not raising them again.

Anyway while this group sounds good on the surface, we all know deep down it won't make one zot of difference to anything the Libs do. The last thing they give a damm about is the opinion of ordinary working Australians. They will go ahead and use their majority to pass whatever they like. All we can do about it is remember it and not fall for their crap at the next election. Then we may actually get rid of them.
Also, let's not waste our vote on the Marjuana Party for God's sake! If you must vote third party, vote Green.

So pay vist to GetUp.org (http://www.getup.org.au) (a MoveOne.org affiliate) and stand up for your rights!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! You think the Coalition is going to listen to a bunch of morons on the internet? :D :D :D

You are teh funnay!

The Coalition is going to do whatever it pleases. You know it, I know it. I find your impotent rage extremely amusing, and yes I am Aussie.

PS: What makes you think Labor would be any different if they had all the power?

Don't worry about that. I vote Labor, always have, and barring anything extreme to come out of the party, I always will :).

Great! It's about time Australia had its own conservative revolution.

Great! It's about time Australia had its own conservative revolution.


Ten bucks says you know no more about Autralian politics then I do, young lady. Any bets that the Aussie "Conservative" parties make the Democrats look like neo-cons? (BTW, dear, there is almost no chance that Australia goes fundamentalist. Just wishful thinking on your part.)

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! You think the Coalition is going to listen to a bunch of morons on the internet? :D :D :D

You are teh funnay!

The Coalition is going to do whatever it pleases. You know it, I know it. I find your impotent rage extremely amusing, and yes I am Aussie.

PS: What makes you think Labor would be any different if they had all the power?
I don't. I think we would have a similar problem. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ensure that we become the check and measure that has lost.

Ten bucks says you know no more about Autralian politics then I do, young lady. Any bets that the Aussie "Conservative" parties make the Democrats look like neo-cons? (BTW, dear, there is almost no chance that Australia goes fundamentalist. Just wishful thinking on your part.)
Our most right wing party (Family First) makes the Democrats look like Nazis.*







*The above statment is clearly an exageration and no insult is intended to either the Democratic National Party, nor to the survivors of the Holocaust or to the Jewish people. My apologies in advance for the statement.

I don't. I think we would have a similar problem. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ensure that we become the check and measure that has lost.

NEWSFLASH: You are a powerless subject. Bend over & take it before you give yourself an ulcer.

Family first remind me a lot of One Nation. I can't help but believe they are just a flash in the pan party that will gradually disappear. Especially when we finally get the Libs out of government.

While Family First are currently having some infulence on the Libs (because of a preference deal), the Libs do want to win the next election (15 years of the Libs, please Australia no) so I hope they won't be stupid enough to alienate the swing voters that won them the last election by doing anything too stupid.

Ten bucks says you know no more about Autralian politics then I do, young lady. Any bets that the Aussie "Conservative" parties make the Democrats look like neo-cons? (BTW, dear, there is almost no chance that Australia goes fundamentalist. Just wishful thinking on your part.)


We'll see ;)


Finally, the good citizens of Aussieland are showing wisdom :)

NEWSFLASH: You are a powerless subject. Bend over & take it before you give yourself an ulcer.
Um, as interesting as that sounds. How about no?!

Correct me if I'm wrong, Rotovia, but isn't it true that in Australia, the Liberal Party is conservative in nature, by your standards, and that the liberally minded party is the Labour Party? I don't know an awful lot about Australian politics--that's pretty obvious--but Howard has never struck me as a particularly liberal sort, and he's the PM, right?

Thanks for posting that link. I'm astonished by how little use Australian political parties have made of the internet and how inept most of the attempts have been. The Greens did the best in the 2004 election, I think -- I believe someone did an academic study and noted, among other things, that they were quickest to reply to an "interested voter" query.

Not that spamming is particularly 'ept', but at least it reminds the pollies that there are people out here.

Now that Don Chipp has died and his party imploded, somebody's gotta keep the bastards honest.

How about no?!

How about you don't have a choice?

Family first remind me a lot of One Nation. I can't help but believe they are just a flash in the pan party that will gradually disappear. Especially when we finally get the Libs out of government.

While Family First are currently having some infulence on the Libs (because of a preference deal), the Libs do want to win the next election (15 years of the Libs, please Australia no) so I hope they won't be stupid enough to alienate the swing voters that won them the last election by doing anything too stupid.
They might just though. Because goodness knows Howard wnats to, and he's not running for re-election.

But here's to hoping Family First dwindles out in the next few electoral years as Christians start expressing a little seperation of state.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Rotovia, but isn't it true that in Australia, the Liberal Party is conservative in nature, by your standards, and that the liberally minded party is the Labour Party? I don't know an awful lot about Australian politics--that's pretty obvious--but Howard has never struck me as a particularly liberal sort, and he's the PM, right?
John Howard is Prime Minister. He is leader of the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party is Conservative.

Our opposition party is Labour, they are lead by trade unions, old school Catholics, University students and select socialist factions. They are more Liberal than the Liberals, yes.

They might just though. Because goodness knows Howard wnats to, and he's not running for re-election.

But here's to hoping Family First dwindles out in the next few electoral years as Christians start expressing a little seperation of state.

Howard still wants the Libs to win the next election though, whether he's at the helm or not, so I honestly can't see them going overboard like Family First would like them to. Of course the Libs have turned lying into an art form so who knows. All we can do is keep our fingers crossed.

One thing I am very pleased about is that our conservative party isn't full of religious fundies like the American Republicans. As much as I dislike the Liberals, I have to give them credit for that.

One thing I am very pleased about is that our conservative party isn't full of religious fundies like the American Republicans. As much as I dislike the Liberals, I have to give them credit for that.


The good people of Aussieland are showing wisdom.

John Howard is Prime Minister. He is leader of the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party is Conservative.

Our opposition party is Labour, they are lead by trade unions, old school Catholics, University students and select socialist factions. They are more Liberal than the Liberals, yes.
So Neo Rogolia has half her wish--conservatives are in power in Australia, albeit not US-conservative types, which would be closer to the marginal family First party.

Thanks for posting that link. I'm astonished by how little use Australian political parties have made of the internet and how inept most of the attempts have been. The Greens did the best in the 2004 election, I think -- I believe someone did an academic study and noted, among other things, that they were quickest to reply to an "interested voter" query.

Not that spamming is particularly 'ept', but at least it reminds the pollies that there are people out here.

Now that Don Chipp has died and his party imploded, somebody's gotta keep the bastards honest.
I miss the Keating Days to be honest...

"Shut the fuck up you ugly little man!" Keating to Howard '97 I think.

So Neo Rogolia has half her wish--conservatives are in power in Australia, albeit not US-conservative types, which would be closer to the marginal family First party.
Indeed. Not for long though. I live in a state where state troops were used to blockade a printing so that anti-government litrature could be printed. Conservatives have a limited shelf-life. Labour will be back as soon as the economy starts to slip, even a little.

I miss the Keating Days to be honest...

"Shut the fuck up you ugly little man!" Keating to Howard '97 I think.

:D:D.

Shame Howard didn't listen.

I also miss the great years of the Democrats. The best years in the 70s and 80s before Meg Lees and the other wannabe Liberals destroyed the party.

:D:D.

Shame Howard didn't listen.

I also miss the great years of the Democrats. The best years in the 70s and 80s before Meg Lees and the other wannabe Liberals destroyed the party.
lol. Good times. Good times.

I think I understand Howard better now. He was picke don when he was younger. I can't imagine constantly beinger refered to as a "troll" helped his self esteem.

lol. Good times. Good times.

I think I understand Howard better now. He was picke don when he was younger. I can't imagine constantly beinger refered to as a "troll" helped his self esteem.

Personally I call him the garden gnome. He kinda looks like one and would be much more useful to the average Australian as a garden ornament :).

Personally I call him the garden gnome. He kinda looks like one and would be much more useful to the average Australian as a garden ornament :).
Have you read that book? "101 things to do with John Howard"? It's good stuff. 101 litte cartoons of uses for our dear PM.

Have you read that book? "101 things to do with John Howard"? It's good stuff. 101 litte cartoons of uses for our dear PM.

No. I haven't heard of it before. Will have to find a copy. It sounds very interesting :D.

No. I haven't heard of it before. Will have to find a copy. It sounds very interesting :D.
Hell yeah. Amoung the uses are garden gnome, fertilizer, small uncomfrotable seat...

I think it's funny that a lot of people online (and often, commentators in the news) seem to think that Australians are:
a) Incredibly stupid and that most of us fell for a 'interest rates will rise under Labor' type comment, and that
b) the Coalition Government shouldn't be able to pass the laws it believes are right for the country.

Believe it or not, Australians have chosen to give the Coalition an increased majority both in the House and the Senate. That means that they have the right to legislate. If you disagree with some of the proposed laws, perhaps you ought to realise that we have given them the right to pass these laws and that posting online your own views will not change that.

Yes I voted Liberal and I'm proud I did (they carried my suburb by 85%). I don't believe that the country will fall apart if they are allowed to pass laws; in fact, I believe that they will make our country even better. You can't tell me that Australia has not gone from strength to strength since 1996. Certainly, there have been some flaws in the application of policy, but no government is perfect.

Finally I would like to say that I believe the majority of Australians would, at this moment, prefer to see Howard with a double-majority than Beazley with even a majority in the House.

I'd love to join the nostalgiafest -- ah, remember the outrage when Keating actually touched the sacred, if ageing, flesh of Our Glorious Queen? The British Press seemed to think it would have been more polite to let her fall over -- but you did start a thread on Libs ...

What I'm wondering is, where are the small-l Libs? There do seem to be some, or we'd still have the shame of refugee kids being stuck in detention centres.

There's been the truly amazing sight of Anglican and Catholic churchmen speaking out against the new labour laws; even the Family First guy and the National Party's Barnaby Joyce have said they're uneasy about some parts of them.

So, who's saying that sort of thing among the Libs? Anyone noticed a potential Weakest Link?

I think it's funny that a lot of people online (and often, commentators in the news) seem to think that Australians are:
a) Incredibly stupid and that most of us fell for a 'interest rates will rise under Labor' type comment, and that
b) the Coalition Government shouldn't be able to pass the laws it believes are right for the country.

Believe it or not, Australians have chosen to give the Coalition an increased majority both in the House and the Senate. That means that they have the right to legislate. If you disagree with some of the proposed laws, perhaps you ought to realise that we have given them the right to pass these laws and that posting online your own views will not change that.

Yes I voted Liberal and I'm proud I did (they carried my suburb by 85%). I don't believe that the country will fall apart if they are allowed to pass laws; in fact, I believe that they will make our country even better. You can't tell me that Australia has not gone from strength to strength since 1996. Certainly, there have been some flaws in the application of policy, but no government is perfect.

Finally I would like to say that I believe the majority of Australians would, at this moment, prefer to see Howard with a double-majority than Beazley with even a majority in the House.
Good for you. However the overwhelming majority of Australians polled by independant sources state they are opposed to changes to labour laws. Which I can say as an employer, I to am against. I employ a couple casual and part-time staff and to be honest I like to think that the law protects them.

I think it's funny that a lot of people online (and often, commentators in the news) seem to think that Australians are:
a) Incredibly stupid and that most of us fell for a 'interest rates will rise under Labor' type comment, and that
b) the Coalition Government shouldn't be able to pass the laws it believes are right for the country.

Believe it or not, Australians have chosen to give the Coalition an increased majority both in the House and the Senate. That means that they have the right to legislate. If you disagree with some of the proposed laws, perhaps you ought to realise that we have given them the right to pass these laws and that posting online your own views will not change that.

Yes I voted Liberal and I'm proud I did (they carried my suburb by 85%). I don't believe that the country will fall apart if they are allowed to pass laws; in fact, I believe that they will make our country even better. You can't tell me that Australia has not gone from strength to strength since 1996. Certainly, there have been some flaws in the application of policy, but no government is perfect.

Finally I would like to say that I believe the majority of Australians would, at this moment, prefer to see Howard with a double-majority than Beazley with even a majority in the House.


A- I think a lot of the swing voters did, yes. Thats what I believe. You have as much right to disagree with it as I do to believe it.

B- Thats the thing though. I don't trust them to pass laws that would be best for the country. I believe they will pass laws that will primarily benefit big business and the better off. You know, the core Liberal voters.

Some not all Australians gave the Libs an increased majority. I didn't vote for them, and neither did anyone else who didn't put that 1 in the box next to the Lib candidates name.

If you are a Liberal voter, then thats fine. I aren't and do have the right to express it here if I wish to.

I'd love to join the nostalgiafest -- ah, remember the outrage when Keating actually touched the sacred, if ageing, flesh of Our Glorious Queen? The British Press seemed to think it would have been more polite to let her fall over -- but you did start a thread on Libs ...

What I'm wondering is, where are the small-l Libs? There do seem to be some, or we'd still have the shame of refugee kids being stuck in detention centres.

There's been the truly amazing sight of Anglican and Catholic churchmen speaking out against the new labour laws; even the Family First guy and the National Party's Barnaby Joyce have said they're uneasy about some parts of them.

So, who's saying that sort of thing among the Libs? Anyone noticed a potential Weakest Link?
I know. We need the Republic back on the ballot.

I can only hope to God that the Liberals (Conservatives) listen to the voices of the Trade Unions, Churchs, People & many employers I know who are against it.

I'd love to join the nostalgiafest -- ah, remember the outrage when Keating actually touched the sacred, if ageing, flesh of Our Glorious Queen? The British Press seemed to think it would have been more polite to let her fall over -- but you did start a thread on Libs ...

What I'm wondering is, where are the small-l Libs? There do seem to be some, or we'd still have the shame of refugee kids being stuck in detention centres.

There's been the truly amazing sight of Anglican and Catholic churchmen speaking out against the new labour laws; even the Family First guy and the National Party's Barnaby Joyce have said they're uneasy about some parts of them.

So, who's saying that sort of thing among the Libs? Anyone noticed a potential Weakest Link?

Ah yes I remember the Keating/Queen incident. The British press called him the "lizard of oz". The Queen herself didn't seem to mind though :D.

I can only hope to God that the Liberals (Conservatives) listen to the voices of the Trade Unions, Churchs, People & many employers I know who are against it.

And I have a feeling the Liberals wish that people would wait to actually see the draft of these laws before they choose to criticise it.

Don't you find it hard to oppose something before it is even written? I certainly hope that you are not simply accepting what the trade unions and the ALP claim will be in it.

We already know they are going to remove unfair dismissal rights for any employees who work in businesses with under 100 employees. That alone is enough to make me very worried about what else they are keeping under wraps.

And I have a feeling the Liberals wish that people would wait to actually see the draft of these laws before they choose to criticise it.

Don't you find it hard to oppose something before it is even written? I certainly hope that you are not simply accepting what the trade unions and the ALP claim will be in it.

That's just it: we haven't seen it. To vote on it intelligently -- to be able to say, "The people of Australia voted for this" -- we should have seen it.

The bits we did see are being changed after we've voted. Like the waiving of the unfair dismissal laws. That change was going to affect only the little blokes -- the ones with 10 or fewer employees, where there was a fairly general agreement that they really were a burden and maybe even a barrier to further employment. But now they've been changed to exclude any employer with 100 or fewer employees, which makes up, I think, something like 97% of the Australian workforce.

And that thing about the new body to do the job of the Australian Industrial Commission. Who gets on it, how do they get there and what's the basis for their rulings? It might have succeeded if there'd been real consultation about it, but at this stage it's become just another political point-scoring deal and the State Governments are clinging to their industrial systems as a sort of insurance because they can't trust the Feds.

I used to be really proud of the Australian industrial relations system. For nearly 100 years it banged both union and employer heads together and told them they HAD to reach an agreement and it HAD to be fair to both parties.

Now we're being steered towards a system that takes for granted that there's a constant state of industrial war. I don't see why we have to copy America in this. Remember the Patrick Partners dispute on the wharves? The rottweilers and the heavies in balaclavas?

I want us to keep the sort of industrial system where an industrial commissioner can take the union rep and the BHP rep on a fishing trip, lead them ashore on an island for smoko and then announce that he's sent the boat back to the mainland and he won't bloody well call it back until they bloody well sort their bloody selves out.

If you insist, though, I'll accept it without the bloodies.

Good for you. However the overwhelming majority of Australians polled by independant sources state they are opposed to changes to labour laws. Which I can say as an employer, I to am against. I employ a couple casual and part-time staff and to be honest I like to think that the law protects them.

The public don't like change. It scares them, then once the change has come they realise it isn't that bad and get over it.

This is why governments tend to be rel-elected, people opposed the GST, the 1996 reforms, the Republic, the 1994 reforms, 1986 reforms.

All went through without a hitch and no-one remembers them anymore (except the Republic debate).

With regard to the law protecting people, surely as an employer all so concerned, you can build any 'safeguards' into a contract.

Great! It's about time Australia had its own conservative revolution.
Why do you celebrate the exploitation of workers and increasing inequality of wealth? Aren't you a socialist? That you consistently align yourself with political groups whose beliefs oppose yours (i.e. capitalists) is a total mystery to me.

They are more Liberal than the Liberals, yes.
Only in the American sense of the word.

Why do you celebrate the exploitation of workers and increasing inequality of wealth? Aren't you a socialist? That you consistently align yourself with political groups whose beliefs oppose yours (i.e. capitalists) is a total mystery to me.


Only in the American sense of the word.

Actually Australia has experienced increased equality under the Conservatives. I don't know why, but it has.

*blushes* Sorry, folks. I yabbered on there a bit because industrial relations is one of my hobby-horses and I really am worried about us going down the American path in that field.

Farmina, are you sure about the increased equality? I thought the gap between our richest and our poorest -- say, between Kerry Packer and an unemployed single parent -- had widened.

Or does it mean that, though the ends are actually wider apart, there are more of us clustering round the middle of the Bell curve?

Anyway, I have to bow out of this discussion because I've gotta go pick up my shift-worker husband. G'night, all.

I'm quite sure about increased equality. Sorry I lost the stats, but it was between 1994 and 2003 (or was it 2004). The incomes of the poor and middle clases are growing at a faster rate than the rich and the overal rate is growing faster too. The spread no doubt increased, but it does when one is talking about larger numbers.

What are we going to do about all this equality!?!

Well this wonderful Coalition of conservatives has decided it's really cool to sell NT Uranium to China (like they won't turn it into weapons grade Plutonium) and use the NT as a nuclear dump because it's fun to stomp to the territories.

I really want spent fuel rods to be shipped to Darwin and carted to Katherine or Alice Springs as well? How about we just dump them in Lake Burley Griffin.

A "MoveOn affiliate" or clone..ah yes like the one that sponsored Mikey Moore to come over here, shove his nose into our elections and tell us how he thinks we should run our country.

I think we could do with less of that kind of "affiliate" myself..I am also reminded of Kerry's idiot family coming over here and making noises as well.

One of her more interesting comments was in regards to the Iraq War and how the Bali bombings were a direct result of that...forgetting or ignoring the fact that one occurred close to two years before the other.:rolleyes:

Labor LOST the election Get over it.

Kerry Lost the election. Get over it.

MoveOn is a joke. Alluding the American Left who seem to scream "stolen election" and throw tantrums (....the same raving loonies who started the cute rumour that the US Government detonated a nuke in the sea to cause the tsunamis) every time they lose.

Beasley is a non starter and Labor has a major job of trying to avoid footbullets.Labor lost and will continue to lose until they wake up to themselves.

The prognosis is not good unless they get their act together.

I am also a Liberal voter and proud of it. I am also in the workforce and am well aware of what may happen..I prefer to wait and see.

So no..I won't be visiting your site, sir..I have too much respect for my intelligence.

Jerusalem:China already has nukes, and delivery systems, and guidance systems capable of sending ICBM's pretty well wherever they choose. Their ships carry the Fei-Lung missile which has a nuclear payload capability.

Well said, FWN. Personally I hope the ALP dump Beazley after they lose in 2007 and replace him with Rudd (giving the Coalition the 2011 election).

And as for Jerusalem, you might like to remember that China is our friend these days. I mean, we aren't as close to them as we are to Great Britain or the States, but we certainly have some common interests.

What is the problem with us sending them our uranium? I don't know of many people here with a use for it. If you're smart, just invest in BHP and Rio and ride the wave.

Why do you celebrate the exploitation of workers and increasing inequality of wealth? Aren't you a socialist? That you consistently align yourself with political groups whose beliefs oppose yours (i.e. capitalists) is a total mystery to me.


You haven't read her posts have you? She's an ultra-conservative fudamentalist christian.

Every nation has a silent majorty....usually when one side is being very loud in their retortic it is a good sign they are not in the majority or in control of anything....

Gulf Republics has hit the nail on the head.

As a bit of an aside:

It seems to me that your conservatives control parliament because your rural areas have disproportionate voting power over urban areas (where, as I understand it, the vast majority of Australians live). The number of votes per seat is considerably smaller for rural ridings than it is for urban ones (or to say it another way, the rural areas have more seats per 10,000 people than urban areas do). We have a similar problem here in Canada, and a lot of us are fighting for proportional representation as result. Here in BC, PR got 58% of the popular vote in a recent referendum, but didn't manage to pass the threshold required to become a fact of life (60%). Ironically, the government elected in that election only got 46% of the popular vote, but they're considered a majority.

Meanwhile, you've got New Zealand next door with PR -- does their example encourage Australians to try for proportional representation, or is it not on the table at all?

You haven't read her posts have you? She's an ultra-conservative fudamentalist christian.



Apparently he's read more than you. I'm liberalservative :D I'm an economic left-winger (more worker's rights, a more equal distribution of wealth), and a social right-winger.

A "MoveOn affiliate" or clone..ah yes like the one that sponsored Mikey Moore to come over here, shove his nose into our elections and tell us how he thinks we should run our country.

I think we could do with less of that kind of "affiliate" myself..I am also reminded of Kerry's idiot family coming over here and making noises as well.

One of her more interesting comments was in regards to the Iraq War and how the Bali bombings were a direct result of that...forgetting or ignoring the fact that one occurred close to two years before the other.:rolleyes:

Labor LOST the election Get over it.

Kerry Lost the election. Get over it.

MoveOn is a joke. Alluding the American Left who seem to scream "stolen election" and throw tantrums (....the same raving loonies who started the cute rumour that the US Government detonated a nuke in the sea to cause the tsunamis) every time they lose.

Beasley is a non starter and Labor has a major job of trying to avoid footbullets.Labor lost and will continue to lose until they wake up to themselves.

The prognosis is not good unless they get their act together.

I am also a Liberal voter and proud of it. I am also in the workforce and am well aware of what may happen..I prefer to wait and see.

So no..I won't be visiting your site, sir..I have too much respect for my intelligence.

Jerusalem:China already has nukes, and delivery systems, and guidance systems capable of sending ICBM's pretty well wherever they choose. Their ships carry the Fei-Lung missile which has a nuclear payload capability.



Suprisingly, MoveOn.org hasn't died like it should have, even though the American people pretty much said "We don't like your underhanded tactics, your hostile attitude, your disrespect for the office and your lies/half-truths." in the 2004 elections. Now they have an Aussie branch? :mad:

... the American people pretty much said "We don't like your underhanded tactics, your hostile attitude, your disrespect for the office and your lies/half-truths." in the 2004 elections. OK, let's get the obvious smartie comment over: The Australian people, by contrast, must like underhanded tactics, etc, etc -- after all, didn't they vote for John Howard?

Seriously, though, I think there's a different attitude to pollies in Australia. Most of us are not really surprised when a politician is caught out in a lie because we expect a certain level of lying -- they're politicians, aren't they? Similarly, the "hostile attitude" is largely reserved for elections, just as it's reserved for State of Origin Grand Finals or the Ashes; the rest of the time, we get along with each other.

As to "respect for the office" -- I dunno, I find it very odd, the way Americans carry on about their Presidents. Our Prime Minister, whatever the party, is just a man. Some of us chose him, some of us didn't. Being elected doesn't deify him; on the other hand, we don't expect him to give up sex, booze, surfing, reading Harry Potter or whatever his hang-up is while in office, either. He's our servant, not our master. He doesn't 'embody the nation' or anything grandiose. The Prime Minister is just that: primus inter pares, first among equals -- and we're the equals. Any PM got to be PM by a series of backroom deals, faction fights, number-crunching and general low, rat-like cunning. And most Australian PMs should definitely be searched at airports, because they're probably trying to get a bottle of Johnny Walker in when they're already over the duty-free allowance.

We do get resentful about lies and half-truths when they're stupid lies and half-truths, though. I mean, what's the point of telling a lie that you know is going to get found out? It really gets up my nose that John Howard expects the public service to carry the can for him, or the Army, or the Navy -- "Oh, nobody told me. I wasn't informed." The people in those bodies are middling honest, just like the rest of us, and if they didn't do what the PM says they did, they're going to whinge about it. Which means, inevitably, it will become public and the lie will be exposed. Children overboard, anyone?

Smart political half-truths ... well, I've still got a soft spot for, "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale." Also, "I did not have sex with that woman (unspoken: she had sex with me)."

Actually, I suspect I want two things from a political leader: 1, keep us working together, even when it's as hard as herding cats; 2, give us a few laughs while doing it. Err ... Peter Garrett, you busy right now?

Apparently he's read more than you. I'm liberalservative :D I'm an economic left-winger (more worker's rights, a more equal distribution of wealth), and a social right-winger.


You're making my head hurt. :eek: :gundge: :headbang:

Now they have an Aussie branch? :mad:
It's not a brach of MoveOn.org. Merely a spin off created my Australian members and supported as an affiliate by MoveOn.org.

... Meanwhile, you've got New Zealand next door with PR -- does their example encourage Australians to try for proportional representation, or is it not on the table at all?
Not on the table at all right now. We've got more immediate problems: the new labour laws ... but don't get me started ...

The thing is, the Federal electoral boundaries are drawn by a largely non-partisan public service. Massive gerrymanders have existed -- there was a beauty in 1970s Queensland, where the party in power had received 19% of the vote -- but not now, federally.

It's true that the boundaries have seen the election of more conservative than Labor governments since Federation (1901), but that's a lot to do with the simple fact that workers cluster where the jobs are. So it can work out that the votes of nine Labor voters are equal to the vote of one National Party voter, in terms of how many MPs they elect.

But most Australians are aware of just how hard it can be to travel in country areas. Lousy transport, expensive aviation, huge distances, fire and floods, hopeless telecommunications ... I know, Canada's not exactly a dot on the map, you'd face this too. Anyway, the result is a fairly general acceptance that serving 100 country people really is as difficult for an MP as serving 900 city folk.

Besides (and this is the biggie), whatever they say, neither of the major parties is really thrilled with the idea of minor parties gaining more influence. Both of them have been stung by breakaway groups whom they really hated -- the Democratic Labour Party and the Australian Democrats -- heretics from their political One True Faith. On top of that, we've got a sort of bastard PR in the Senate, and that's thrown up more than enough headaches for Lib or Lab. Depending on how you did it, PR could undermine the State power-bases of various political powerbrokers and shake one of the main means of party discipline (endorsement).

Since, between them, Lib and Lab account for most Australian voters, it's likely to stay in the "yes it's a wonderful idea but" basket.

Yeah Australia is screwed up. Like America.

Yeah Australia is screwed up. Like America.Not like America. I think we're a little bit better at working together and the division between church and state is wider, which I see as a good thing.

But what we've really got going for us is that we're not one of the big boys. We're not on stage all the time. We're a minor player and we know it. So we don't have to do big things.

That means we can do little things. We could follow Canada's lead in defending human rights in the UN. Advise emerging democracies about practical stuff, like how to run a police force that won't try to be an army. Train professionals from other countries and then not steal them to stay in ours. Use State funds to get scientists to work on our problems, like drought or mosquitoes or salinity, then not sell the results, but share them. We could do all of these things, and we do do some of them. A bit. Not enough, but a bit.

I like it that when we stuff up (East Timor) we get a chance to put it right (East Timor). I like it that other countries bother to give us a kick up the bum now and then (over Aboriginal health, for example).

In fact (this is bloody embarrassing) I quite like us quite a lot of the time.

It's not a brach of MoveOn.org. Merely a spin off created my Australian members and supported as an affiliate by MoveOn.org.

All the more reason to spare my precious brain cells from the arrant stupidity and raving idiocies of the lunatic left.

Michael Moore is a liar. MoveOn by endorsing him, endorses his lies, half truths, distortions and fallacies.

Matter of fact, the Republicans like Moore a lot...he helped the President get re elected. :p :p :p :p

Footbullet.

And as for Jerusalem, you might like to remember that China is our friend these days. I mean, we aren't as close to them as we are to Great Britain or the States, but we certainly have some common interests.

What is the problem with us sending them our uranium? I don't know of many people here with a use for it. If you're smart, just invest in BHP and Rio and ride the wave.

I'm ethnically Chinese and you cannot trust the Chinese government. China is only our "friend" because there's money to be made.

We send over Uranium to fuel their nuclear plants and what happens to the leftover Plutonium produced? It becomes a nuclear weapon. It's win win for China.