NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, maybe I have, but things like this always disturb me.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/0805/04metpredators.html

Guilford Watson III, a 56-year-old North Carolina dentist, who wanted an Atlanta teen to pretend she was his daughter when they engaged in cybersex.

Or David William Scott, a 35-year-old graphic designer from Chattanooga, who arranged online to have sex with two children, ages 4 and 6, then drove to Marietta — with whips, knives and two stuffed animals.

Or Stuart Manley, a 63-year-old Texan who allegedly brought pornographic images of his underage son for a meeting with a 12-year-old girl in Roswell.

The following account, as well as others in this article, was gleaned from court documents and interviews with parents and law enforcement officials. In accordance with the newspaper's policy, the victims of the sex crimes are not being identified.

"There were these pictures, these ? disturbing pictures," the mother haltingly recounted. "Of this gray-haired man doing these ? horrible sexual things with children."

She also found several e-mails from a man professing his love for her daughter, who hadn't had much luck with dating because of her disability, the mother said.

She discovered that the man had sent her daughter his credit card information, inviting her to order whatever she wanted online.

Armed with his name, the mother did a Google search on the man: Guilford Watson was a dentist in Goldsboro, N.C. He worked at a hospital treating patients with mental retardation, she found.

"I was angry with her because she had no idea what she had gotten herself into," she said. "But I was really, really furious with him. He was a doctor. How could he do such things?"

The two had met in a dating chat room. The daughter had been chatting online with the man every night for almost a year while her parents slept. He'd sent her several pornographic photographs of himself and of girls who looked to be about 13. Using a camera phone, she sent him half a dozen nude images of herself. They planned a meeting in Atlanta when she was home alone.

When the two engaged in cybersex, Guilford asked the girl to pretend to be his 12-year-old daughter or niece.


What is wrong with these people?

And the fact that there are enough of them to do this:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0805/04metpredatorside.html

Investigators say Christopher Brandlon, a 48-year-old father from Portland, Ore., represents another group of predators they are aggressively targeting: people who communicate online not with minors, but with other parents in order to swap children for sex.

*CRINGE*

...

I'm normally not violent, but if I saw these people in person I wouldn't mind stabbing them.

Wow. Just wow.

The ultimate evil, and one that no other animal on the planet does to its own young.

Yuuuck

I'm normally not violent, but if I saw these people in person I wouldn't mind stabbing them.
Stabbity death is fuuun. :D

See, now this is good example of scum. Not hard to agree on. :) And everyone could have fun ridding the world of them in their own manner!

I prefer something slow and painful.

Ugh, that's absolutely horrible.

ICK.

I feel unclean. Damn chatrooms.

Dem, this is the saddest, most disturbing thing I've heard in a long, long time.
How could anyone do something like that? How could anyone compromise their own children's psychiatric and physical well-being to satiate their own perverse desires? :(

I hope a very public example is made of someone to send a very clear message to all of these predators-- Use the internet to lure or "swap" children or teenagers for sexual gratification (even if it's just pictures), and spend the rest of your life in prison with no possibility of parole.

I personally wouldn't allow my children to use a computer unsupervised (if I had any). And I would keep it in the living room-- No computers in their bedrooms. No mobile laptops until college. But that's just me.

....I have one question for them, why? :(

:confused:

one of the many reasons I won't bring kids into this world.

Why oh why does this shit always have to happen in North Carolina?? It makes it kind of hard to be proud of where you live.

Dem, this is the saddest, most disturbing thing I've heard in a long, long time.
How could anyone do something like that? How could anyone compromise their own children's psychiatric and physical well-being to satiate their own perverse desires? :(

I don't know. And, in truth, I don't want to know.

I hope a very public example is made of someone to send a very clear message to all of these predators-- Use the internet to lure or "swap" children or teenagers for sexual gratification (even if it's just pictures), and spend the rest of your life in prison with no possibility of parole.

Well, these guys aren't getting life unfortunately. Hell, even actually committing the action generally won't get you life - although I wouldn't be opposed to it doing so. They are getting a good bit of time, but what I worry about is the ones that aren't caught.

All this ridiculous crap happens when people get "freedom". In fact, they are stuck fast in immorality and disgust.

These are some of the sickest people I've ever heard of

All this ridiculous crap happens when people get "freedom". In fact, they are stuck fast in immorality and disgust.


Perfectly stated.

OMFG.

That's just sick. That's just damn nasty and to think there are more of these sickos on the internet. They should be hanged..

OMFG.

That's just sick. That's just damn nasty and to think there are more of these sickos on the internet. They should be hanged..


What do you know, something we can agree on :D

All this ridiculous crap happens when people get "freedom". In fact, they are stuck fast in immorality and disgust.

The fact that you use this to make some political point speaks volumes.

Perfectly stated.


Except completely untrue. There are examples of similar types of things happening in very religious places, as well as places with little civil liberties or personal freedoms.

Except completely untrue. There are examples of this happening in very religious places, as well as places with little to no rights.



But on such a frequent basis and so openly? Also, those places wouldn't let those animals out of jail after serving a short time, like we see in news all the time.

But on such a frequent basis and so openly? Also, those places wouldn't let those animals out of jail after serving a short time, let we see in news all the time.


I think the fuckers should spend life sentences for sure, but to say that freedom is the cause of this type of behavior is profoundly ludicrous in my opinion.

The fact that you use this to make some political point speaks volumes.

Like what?

Like what?
...

...
Am I not supposed to be make political points? Was my comment political? I don't know myself. :p

Am I not supposed to be make political points? Was my comment political? I don't know myself. :p
It was, but then again threads always turn political one way or another. :p

Everyone in this thread should be applauded for having the courage to take such a strong stand against demonic perverted child-rapers.

Back in the day people used to be put against a wall and killed for things like this. WHERE DID THOSE DAYS GO?

Stabbity death is fuuun. :D

They need to add a stabbity emoticom

All this ridiculous crap happens when people get "freedom". In fact, they are stuck fast in immorality and disgust.

Remember why God gave us free will?

Everyone in this thread should be applauded for having the courage to take such a strong stand against demonic perverted child-rapers.

Yeah, typing on an internet forum sure shows strength of character. :rolleyes:

Yeah, typing on an internet forum sure shows strength of character. :rolleyes:

I guess I was being too subtle.

Actually, I used to frequent a few sex chat rooms, and the number of people who got into incest roleplay, both male and female, was surprisingly high...

As distasteful as it is, though, it isn't a crime - so long as it's kept as online roleplay, and not acted out in real life. Real life paedophiles and peddlers of kiddy porn are a whole different animal, and deserve to spend the rest of their lives rotting in a solitary cell.

Everyone in this thread should be applauded for having the courage to take such a strong stand against demonic perverted child-rapers.

Why? Since when does it take courage to take a strong stance against people that are nearly universally reviled? Courage would be if you came out in support of these people.

What people in this thread should be applauded for is for not reaching into their darkest fantasies and turning this into a torture fantasy thread as so often happens when the subject of child molesters comes up.

What people in this thread should be applauded for is for not reaching into their darkest fantasies and turning this into a torture fantasy thread as so often happens when the subject of child molesters comes up.

WTF Mate? Since when is cybering allowed on NS? Teh m0dz would be on those people like ugly on Avril Lavigne.

Why? Since when does it take courage to take a strong stance against people that are nearly universally reviled? Courage would be if you came out in support of these people.

Like I said, too subtle am I.

WTF Mate? Since when is cybering allowed on NS? Teh m0dz would be on those people like ugly on Avril Lavigne.
LOL - but I do see his point. Most of these kind of threads devolve into people blathering about what kind of pain and death they'd like to inflict on the perps. Must admit, I've been guilty of it myself...

WTF Mate? Since when is cybering allowed on NS? Teh m0dz would be on those people like ugly on Avril Lavigne.

It happens all the time, the mods dont do anything probably because its rarely outright sexual (though it often involves mutilation of the genital region), its mostly about inflicting massive amounts of pain to people. Its typical of these threads about child molesters. It didnt happen in this one, and thats commendable.

Ok, maybe I have, but things like this always disturb me.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/0805/04metpredators.html

What is wrong with these people?

And the fact that there are enough of them to do this:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0805/04metpredatorside.html

*CRINGE*
Oh God. I honestly have no desire to end up in jail or in a gas chamber waiting for the cyanide tablets to fall, but I have to say that if the opportunity to kill one of these motherfuckers ever came along, I'm afraid I would be unable to resist.

Oh God. I honestly have no desire to end up in jail or in a gas chamber waiting for the cyanide tablets to fall, but I have to say that if the opportunity to kill one of these motherfuckers ever came along, I'm afraid I would be unable to resist.

Please describe how you would kill them in gory detail, please.

We need to re-think the sentencing options for these animals. It's a common belief that severe sentences, and I'm thinking life in prison and death sentence here, don't deter determined criminals.

I don't see it in this case - would that dentist have risked his life for this perversion? These are cold, calculating people, I'll bet if they do the math weighing some "fun" against the electric chair they'll make the right decision. Even if it cuts the occurrence down by a significant percentage, is it worth it?

Why oh why does this shit always have to happen in North Carolina?? It makes it kind of hard to be proud of where you live.

Hey not everyone in the Tar Heel states are pedos. In case you haven't notice it happens everywhere. I am proud to be in North Carolina, despite that it houses pedo, but guess what. Every state in the union does.

We need to re-think the sentencing options for these animals. It's a common belief that severe sentences, and I'm thinking life in prison and death sentence here, don't deter determined criminals.

I don't see it in this case - would that dentist have risked his life for this perversion? These are cold, calculating people, I'll bet if they do the math weighing some "fun" against the electric chair they'll make the right decision. Even if it cuts the occurrence down by a significant percentage, is it worth it?


Just throw the sick fuckers in jail. We don't have to execute them, the other inmates will do that for us. :D

All this ridiculous crap happens when people get "freedom". In fact, they are stuck fast in immorality and disgust.

So if I understand you correctly. You want to restrict our freedom base on the action of a few?

Friend of mine was a prison guard. he told me the other inmates would steal cleaning fluid from the dry cleaning shop, save up a bunch, then throw it on a child molester while in his cell. Throw in a match. They were forever falling down the stairs when the guards were escorting them.

Why not just execute them, though. Call it revenge.

I personally think life solitary confinement is a better option than the death penalty for a two main reasons:

First and foremost, if later evidence surfaces that the accused was actually innocent, you can't return them to life. And it has happened - maybe not often, but often enough that I would be hesitant to kill anyone, no matter how airtight the case seemed.

Second, I would consider a life of solitary, with no reading material, TV, radio and extremely limted human contact, a far more severe punishment than a quick lethal injection or jolt of electricity. This is on the provision, of course, that unless new evidence surfaces, the sentence cannot be repealed or overturned.

And before you bring up the "I shouldn't have to pay for them in prison" argument, consider just how much it costs to get a death sentenced pushed through, in legal fees and court time alone. Also, can you really put your taxes ahead of a human life - again, there is that small chance that the person isn't actually guilty, so it's not neccessarily a worthless life.

A really sad thing.

So if I understand you correctly. You want to restrict our freedom base on the action of a few?



Wouldn't you want restrictions on freedom? I do. That's why we have laws.


Edit: I agree with you a lot, so this was not meant to be sarcastic.

Wouldn't you want restrictions on freedom? I do. That's why we have laws.


Freedom /= crime. Laws are to protect people from crime, essentially, they stop people from violating others' freedom. Your rights begin where mine end and vice-versa. Laws with the express purpose of restricting freedom only occur in dictatorships. Now, let's get back on-topic, shall we?

Frankly I think these people deserve a quick screwdriver to the eye.

Damn...

Thats SO hot!

Damn...

Thats SO hot!

What is so hot?

What is so hot?


Sorry..I just have a twisted sense of humour....

Sorry..I just have a twisted sense of humour....

Oookkkk, I think I better call the FBI....

Oookkkk, I think I better call the FBI....


I AM the FBI.


Well....

Ive seen Silence of the Lambs, does that count?

I AM the FBI.


Well....

Ive seen Silence of the Lambs, does that count?

No, and yes I agree, Claire is hot.

No, and yes I agree, Claire is hot.


Great!

Whos Claire?

Great!

Whos Claire?

Dr. Hannibal Lector lover, or the FBI girl? Comon don't tell me you don't have well wet dreams about her. lol.

http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/98/180px-SOTLClariceLecter.jpg

Although it would not prevent all cases such as this, (and obviously have no impact when it is the parents who are the perps.) I think there is a strong argument for parents actively, directly teaching children about cyber predators and closely monitoring children’s and young teens’ internet use. These perverts prey on thirteen and fourteen year olds in one of the few areas where they can reach them with no adult supervision. I release such monitoring stinks from the perspective of privacy, but the risks are too high. These pedophiles are professional cons. It’s too easy for them to lure their young victims into their grasps.

Ok I agree that this is simply a bunch of sick-o's inflicting potential violence on the kiddies. Ones whom I'd like to reinstate a few midevil torture techniques to take care of. However, I am a civilized person, so I'm glad it's NOT me inflicting the punishment.

I suppose, though, I have a few questions for the parents (who in this respect could be just as irresponsible as their child!):

1) If your kid is 13 and already sending nude pictures of herself/himself to strangers over the internet, WHERE IN THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN (NOT) TEACHING HER/HIM?? WHAT ELSE HAS THIS CHILD BEEN DOING?!? ARE YOU GONNA BE THE PARENTS WITH A PREGNANT/std ridden 15 year old wondering WTF happened?!? (the answer is yes!) These are the same parents who have the JUVEE DELIQUENT KIDS and say Oh harry couldn't have done it - he's such a "nice" boy - meanwhile he's been beating up everyone in the neighborhood. HELLO, PARENTS, WAKE UP and SMELL THE COFFEE.

2) No, the dentist by far wasn't right, but obviously, the parents WERE NOT SUPERVISING THEIR CHILD or TEACHING THEIR CHILD of the following things:

a) Dignity
b) Morality
c) Chastity
d) Right and Wrong
e) Self PRIDE

and worst of all - the realities of the world and the fact that THERE ARE VERY VERY BAD PEOPLE OUT THERE and to be on guard for them.

3) No, you don't have to make your child terrified of everyone, but you CAN TEACH THEM TO BE SAFE. Teach them to think like a criminal. Kids don't have to be told everything - some Naiveness is ok, but seriously, TELL THEM THE TRUTH - you know, there are bad people on the internet who WANT to make you a VICTIM. WHO WANT TO HAVE YOU ENGAGE in things that aren't right....and you need to know that this is NOT something to take part in - just like you wouldn't rob a bank, you don't send people images of yourself or engage in this sort of behavior with or without MOM & DAD HOME.

I'm sorry, but seriously, I wonder if the PARENTS EVER got truly involved in this child's life, more than superficially. Oh Wait.. that involves communication and talking to your children. Something it seems apparent that lots of these parents weren't doing with regard to their children.

5) I'll admit my solutions aren't perfect, but you know, my parents did a good job of all the above with me, and I think I turned out to be pretty street smart, defensive, and alert when it comes to things that most adults think are "common sense" - but that kids still need to be taught. It's for this reason, that I say if the parents did the suggestions above, then the criminals would wind up with NO or FEWER prey.

6) <<HUGS>> to all the kids who are the unwitting recipeints of this kind of activity and they never have their criminals caught. You don't have to be a victim - you can be a voice and stand up for those who are afraid to.

~my thoughts from the edge.

Dr. Hannibal Lector lover, or the FBI girl? Comon don't tell me you don't have well wet dreams about her. lol.

http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/98/180px-SOTLClariceLecter.jpg


Oh her...

You mean Agent Clarice Starling.

A.K.A actress Jodie Foster.

eh..shes do-able.

Ok I agree that this is simply a bunch of sick-o's inflicting potential violence on the kiddies. Ones whom I'd like to reinstate a few midevil torture techniques to take care of. However, I am a civilized person, so I'm glad it's NOT me inflicting the punishment.

I suppose, though, I have a few questions for the parents (who in this respect could be just as irresponsible as their child!):

1) If your kid is 13 and already sending nude pictures of herself/himself to strangers over the internet, WHERE IN THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN (NOT) TEACHING HER/HIM?? WHAT ELSE HAS THIS CHILD BEEN DOING?!? ARE YOU GONNA BE THE PARENTS WITH A PREGNANT/std ridden 15 year old wondering WTF happened?!? (the answer is yes!) These are the same parents who have the JUVEE DELIQUENT KIDS and say Oh harry couldn't have done it - he's such a "nice" boy - meanwhile he's been beating up everyone in the neighborhood. HELLO, PARENTS, WAKE UP and SMELL THE COFFEE.

2) No, the dentist by far wasn't right, but obviously, the parents WERE NOT SUPERVISING THEIR CHILD or TEACHING THEIR CHILD of the following things:

a) Dignity
b) Morality
c) Chastity
d) Right and Wrong
e) Self PRIDE

and worst of all - the realities of the world and the fact that THERE ARE VERY VERY BAD PEOPLE OUT THERE and to be on guard for them.

3) No, you don't have to make your child terrified of everyone, but you CAN TEACH THEM TO BE SAFE. Teach them to think like a criminal. Kids don't have to be told everything - some Naiveness is ok, but seriously, TELL THEM THE TRUTH - you know, there are bad people on the internet who WANT to make you a VICTIM. WHO WANT TO HAVE YOU ENGAGE in things that aren't right....and you need to know that this is NOT something to take part in - just like you wouldn't rob a bank, you don't send people images of yourself or engage in this sort of behavior with or without MOM & DAD HOME.

I'm sorry, but seriously, I wonder if the PARENTS EVER got truly involved in this child's life, more than superficially. Oh Wait.. that involves communication and talking to your children. Something it seems apparent that lots of these parents weren't doing with regard to their children.

5) I'll admit my solutions aren't perfect, but you know, my parents did a good job of all the above with me, and I think I turned out to be pretty street smart, defensive, and alert when it comes to things that most adults think are "common sense" - but that kids still need to be taught. It's for this reason, that I say if the parents did the suggestions above, then the criminals would wind up with NO or FEWER prey.

6) <<HUGS>> to all the kids who are the unwitting recipeints of this kind of activity and they never have their criminals caught. You don't have to be a victim - you can be a voice and stand up for those who are afraid to.

~my thoughts from the edge.
well said

Thanks Merkiness. It just drives me crazy how we all get angry at the criminals (rightly so) but then seem to "gloss over" the parental responsibility here as not being part of the problem.

I guess I just think if we're not a part of the solution, we're a part of the problem.

Second, I would consider a life of solitary, with no reading material, TV, radio and extremely limted human contact, a far more severe punishment than a quick lethal injection or jolt of electricity. This is on the provision, of course, that unless new evidence surfaces, the sentence cannot be repealed or overturned.

Long periods of solitary confinement drive inmates insane - if they weren't before - and more insanse if they were already. If it were very far into the sentence, even if new evidence surfaced, the chances that you could let such a person back out on the streets are *extremely* low.

1) If your kid is 13 and already sending nude pictures of herself/himself to strangers over the internet, WHERE IN THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN?

Thank you. My sentiments exactly... metaphorically speaking, parents let their kids play on the freeway, then the world has a stroke when one gets hit by a car. People need to start realizing that letting your kid go online alone without supervision is just like letting them roam the streets alone and unsupervised.

And because .0001% of internet users are sickos, and a contingent of parents can't be arsed to pay attention to what their kids are doing, that means eventually there is gonna be more and more government restriction on the net which will fuck things up for everybody. Because that's how things work... if a few people can't handle a freedom then eventually nobody gets that freedom.

Like I said, too subtle am I.

be sarcastic or sarcastic be not, there is no subtle.
[/yoda]

We need to re-think the sentencing options for these animals. It's a common belief that severe sentences, and I'm thinking life in prison and death sentence here, don't deter determined criminals.

I don't see it in this case - would that dentist have risked his life for this perversion? These are cold, calculating people, I'll bet if they do the math weighing some "fun" against the electric chair they'll make the right decision. Even if it cuts the occurrence down by a significant percentage, is it worth it?


When I was a child, I had a friend whose stepfather (when she was 3 years old) raped her and beat her so badly she was in a complete body cast for 8 months. He got 5 years and was out in 2.

Please describe how you would kill them in gory detail, please.
No.

....And because .0001% of internet users are sickos, and a contingent of parents can't be arsed to pay attention to what their kids are doing, .......if a few people can't handle a freedom then eventually nobody gets that freedom.

Thats exactly what i was thinking.if we could we should target the source of the problem,the sickos using the internet.but i don't think that's possible,and won't be until we know what it is that makes people sick and how to help them properly before they go after children.the only other solution i can think of is to supervise children on the internet until they are old enough to take care of themselves in that sense.

something ive noticed is that some parents arent really able to use computers that well themselves,so they have no idea what their child might be doing.whenever something goes wrong with the computer in my house i have to fix it.for the love of god noone else can even use the printer!parents have to learn how you can be safe on the internet before they can teach their children about it,you cant teach what you dont know.

Oh come on, perversion like this is nothing out of the ordinary.

Isn't that right, Eutrusca?

No. Well said.

something ive noticed is that some parents arent really able to use computers that well themselves,so they have no idea what their child might be doing.whenever something goes wrong with the computer in my house i have to fix it.for the love of god noone else can even use the printer!parents have to learn how you can be safe on the internet before they can teach their children about it,you cant teach what you dont know.

That's true.. maybe 'can't be arsed' was a bit too strong and a bit overgeneralizing on my part ;)

Though I'm sure there are parents out there too who see the computer as a babysitter... who don't really care too much as long as the kid is quiet and isn't bothering them. I think thats probably where these particular cases mostly come from.

It strikes me that a kid who is parented well, but has parents who lack the technical knowledge to know the nuts and bolts of what they're up to on the computer, probably would have enough common sense and self-respect to avoid predators. Plus such parents would know from their actions if they're hiding something.

I think there eventually will be a way to track nutcases like this. After all, we caught that nutcase... tracking technology is getting better all the time, and most of these predators aren't really computer people either. Of course, we'll never run out of nutcases so the best that can be done is to watch the kids and try and get these guys reported before they can successfully commit an act like this.

Have you guys heard of a site.. I think its called www.pervertedjustice.com? I can't view it here to make sure cause I'm at work and I don't want to generate any flags on the firewall. But there are people there who pose as underage kids and expose nutjobs who try and hit on them. They post their pictures, their conversations, and any other info they can get about them and try and set up meetings so they can get them arrested... its a great idea. The more these people get exposed to public scrutiny, the more they'll stay out of chatrooms and away from kids.

I want people to be more aware of this sort of thing. Parents need to stop being afraid or content with ignorance when it comes to the internet. Not violating privacy...but knowing what their kid is up to, and warning them of the dangers. An add campaign recently aired a commercial showing a girl on a swing...she swings and swings, but finally the swing comes back down without the girl. It says, "Rebecca met a friend on the internet and agreed to meet him. He wasn't a friend after all." My nieces asked me about this (they're 11) and we had a long talk about meeting people in chat rooms, and not sneaking off to meet them in RL. We also talked about people who wanted to get sexually explicit with them (it had happened). I told them that if they ever had any questions about sex, they could ask me. They didn't have to go online. They were uncomfortable with the topic at that point, but they seemed to understand why talking to strangers who you know nothing about is dangerous. I hope they remember that.

Exactly why I loooooove the death penalty. In the words of Pastor Richards, "Shall I send 'em to hell, Maurice?"

Back in the day people used to be put against a wall and killed for things like this. WHERE DID THOSE DAYS GO?

The first place I'd look is in the archives of the ACLU.

Back in the day people used to be put against a wall and killed for things like this. WHERE DID THOSE DAYS GO?
Oh please. Child abuse happened a lot in the 'good old days' and no one said boo. No one wanted to know about it. It happened in homes, in churches, in schools...and everyone kept quiet about it.

Thanks Merkiness. It just drives me crazy how we all get angry at the criminals (rightly so) but then seem to "gloss over" the parental responsibility here as not being part of the problem.

I guess I just think if we're not a part of the solution, we're a part of the problem.

I don't get it. It is the parents fault that our justice system doesn't keep these people off the streets? It is the parents fault that our criminal justice system allows criminals the means in which to prey on children? Your logic or lack of it makes me believe that the problem lies directly in line with those that take a position that it is not the criminals fault. Maybe if these cirminal appeasers and advocates were locked up with them, we could begin to see some change?

Oh please. Child abuse happened a lot in the 'good old days' and no one said boo. No one wanted to know about it. It happened in homes, in churches, in schools...and everyone kept quiet about it.

I'd sure like to see some sort of evidence to support that claim. It seems awful convinent to make an allegation against people without a shread of evidence other than, "it was done in secret", and "no one wanted to know." That just plain lame. You make it sound as if people didn't care for their kids until you had some. Being one of the sharper individuals here Sinuhue, I would expect something better than this from you.

We need to re-think the sentencing options for these animals. It's a common belief that severe sentences, and I'm thinking life in prison and death sentence here, don't deter determined criminals.

I don't see it in this case - would that dentist have risked his life for this perversion? These are cold, calculating people, I'll bet if they do the math weighing some "fun" against the electric chair they'll make the right decision. Even if it cuts the occurrence down by a significant percentage, is it worth it?
The only thing that keeps me from agreeing wholeheartedly about mandatory death sentences for child molesters is that they will be less inclined to leave witnesses. In other words, the victims will turn up dead more often.

Liverbreath']I'd sure like to see some sort of evidence to support that claim. It seems awful convinent to make an allegation against people without a shread of evidence other than, "it was done in secret", and "no one wanted to know." That just plain lame. You make it sound as if people didn't care for their kids until you had some. Being one of the sharper individuals here Sinuhue, I would expect something better than this from you. Simple logic works here. It happens now - rarely, but it does happen. Why wouldn't it happen back then? There's no reason it wasn't exactly the same back then, no change in human behaviour.

Liverbreath']I'd sure like to see some sort of evidence to support that claim. It seems awful convinent to make an allegation against people without a shread of evidence other than, "it was done in secret", and "no one wanted to know." That just plain lame. You make it sound as if people didn't care for their kids until you had some. Being one of the sharper individuals here Sinuhue, I would expect something better than this from you.
Save your breath. You want stats? Take a look at the victims who have come forward as adults...because no one wanted to hear from children. It had nothing to do about not caring for your own kids, and everything to do with the culture of "what is done in someone else's home is not my business" and "children should be seen not heard". The point is, sexual abuse is not a new phenemenom, and in fact, we deal with it much better than we used to. People are aware. They don't care about 'violating the sanctity of the home" if they know abuse is going on...they call the authorities. Kids are taught about child abuse, improper touching, and how to tell. I don't know what the hell you read into my quote, but you can take your 'expectations of something better' and eat them.

Residential school abuse ( http://www.lcc.gc.ca/research_project/ica/pubs/besrep/toc-en.asp)

Cases that have been settled ( http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex3.htm)

Sexual abuse in the Catholic Church ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_scandal)

No one gave a flying shit about these kids being abused...because no one believed them, or heard about it. So they grew up with the shame and had to deal with it only once they reaached adulthood. Hopefully our system works better now.

I am totally against the death penalty,...except in the case of child molesters.

Liverbreath']I'd sure like to see some sort of evidence to support that claim. It seems awful convinent to make an allegation against people without a shread of evidence other than, "it was done in secret", and "no one wanted to know." That just plain lame. You make it sound as if people didn't care for their kids until you had some. Being one of the sharper individuals here Sinuhue, I would expect something better than this from you.

Child abuse happened in my family before the internet. My grandmother had to help see her niece through it because the niece's mother simply didn't want to hear about it and called her own daughter a liar, despite the daughter giving graphic descriptions of what her father had done to her, and showing where the condoms were buried.

Hospitals have been seeing girls come in pregnant at 13 with their own father's child for generations in backwoods GA.

There are documented cases of child predators attacking and raping children, even in the good old days - spend some time going through old court records.

It isn't that people don't or didn't care for their kids - it's that some don't and didn't. Some people are predators, plain and simple, and those types of people have existed as long as people have.

Liverbreath']I don't get it. It is the parents fault that our justice system doesn't keep these people off the streets? It is the parents fault that our criminal justice system allows criminals the means in which to prey on children? Your logic or lack of it makes me believe that the problem lies directly in line with those that take a position that it is not the criminals fault. Maybe if these cirminal appeasers and advocates were locked up with them, we could begin to see some change?

So because it's not the parents job to apprehend criminals, that means its reasonable for them to allow their kids to run all over the place unsupervised? That's kinda like saying, my car has airbags.. that means I don't have to drive responsibly or look out for other drivers because it's Ford's responsibility, in the form of its designed airbags, to keep me safe.

Hey, going by that logic, I can just get out of my car, leave the engine running with the keys in the ignition and get all indignant and self-righteous if someone steals it. After all, society should be protecting me from car thieves, right? Not my responsibility.

More seriously, yeah, I'd love to see predators completly off the streets and off the internet. But it ain't gonna happen despite the best efforts of the police. And like any risks that can't be completly erased from society, you have to show some common sense and keep your eye open for them.

Thats just fucked up

Hmmmmmmmmm.

The cracks of democracy...

All this ridiculous crap happens when people get "freedom". In fact, they are stuck fast in immorality and disgust.

Sexual things like this have been around for thousands of years. Namely Rome/Greece and even in Japan during the edo(sp?) period .

I can garuntee you that EVERY country has people like this, it's just that ours is catching them :p

I don't understand why there aren't more vigilantes and underground vigilante organizations actively hunting and killing these humans. It's not like any decent jury would give them much time if they're arrested.

Sorry..I just have a twisted sense of humour....

Twisted... screwdriver... clever play of words or just a delightful coincidence?

It happens all the time, the mods dont do anything probably because its rarely outright sexual (though it often involves mutilation of the genital region), its mostly about inflicting massive amounts of pain to people. Its typical of these threads about child molesters. It didnt happen in this one, and thats commendable.Links. I want links.

Post the links in a new topic in "Moderation".

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Long periods of solitary confinement drive inmates insane - if they weren't before - and more insanse if they were already. If it were very far into the sentence, even if new evidence surfaced, the chances that you could let such a person back out on the streets are *extremely* low.
Well, low is a better chance than putting a corpse back on to the street. Besides, what if the new evidence surfaces early in the sentence? Say, a serial paedophile takes a new victim after the prime suspect has alreadt been imprisoned?

Liverbreath']I don't get it. It is the parents fault that our justice system doesn't keep these people off the streets? It is the parents fault that our criminal justice system allows criminals the means in which to prey on children? Your logic or lack of it makes me believe that the problem lies directly in line with those that take a position that it is not the criminals fault. Maybe if these cirminal appeasers and advocates were locked up with them, we could begin to see some change?

No, Liversbreath - I totally agree that it is the criminal's fault and that the justice system isn't helping to protect our children.

HOWEVER, My point was that in alot of these cases - specifically that of the 13 year old girl sending nude pictures to the dentist - THE PARENTS were irresponsible as well. They obviously aren't teaching their children what they need to be taught - and in that respect, the parents are contributing to their child's victimization.

(edit) A good example would be as a parent - you teach your child to look both ways before crossing the street so they don't get hit by a car, right?

Likewise - you teach your child you don't do this on the internet (or anywhere else) because it can leave you open to being hurt, raped, killed, or otherwise victimized. If you don't, when the car (erm... preditor) comes along and hits the kid, don't act like you're all shocked.

Let me repeat - YES, THIS IS TOTALLY THE CRIMINAL's FAULT. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR BY ANYONE. THE JUSTICE SYSTEM SHOULD DO MORE TO PROTECT US. However, Parents can't act like it's not their responsibility too. If the parents aren't contributing to the education and the "scare factor" for their children, then they too are contributing to the criminal's possible victim pool.

Liverbreath']I don't get it. It is the parents fault that our justice system doesn't keep these people off the streets? It is the parents fault that our criminal justice system allows criminals the means in which to prey on children? Your logic or lack of it makes me believe that the problem lies directly in line with those that take a position that it is not the criminals fault. Maybe if these cirminal appeasers and advocates were locked up with them, we could begin to see some change?
Of course it’s the criminals fault. They deserve to rot for the rest of their lives. But, the fact is these sickos are out there. It’s not a 13 year old’s responsibility to independently make all the judgements necessary to keep themselves safe. That’s the parents’ job. When people have children they become responsible for their safety. That responsibility doesn’t end when the child hits 12. Parents have an obligation to set limits that permit children and young teens the freedom to grow while allowing for the fact that they don’t have adult judgement and can’t avoid all potential dangers without guidance and occasionally hearing ‘no’. Allowing a 13 year old full reign on the internet would be like allowing a 10 year old top pick out what to eat at every meal or a five year old to wander around any street they chose. Children can’t raise themselves; they shouldn’t have to.

But on such a frequent basis and so openly? Also, those places wouldn't let those animals out of jail after serving a short time, like we see in news all the time.
Well trading one's children was common enough in Moses' time for the Old Testament to include guidelines on the right and proper way of going about it. As for raping children, seeing as how the Old Testament suggests that it is permissable to copulate with slaves provided they are scourged afterwards, seeing as no mention of minimum age is given, given the propensity for people to marry young and considering Moses told the Israelites to 'keep all the virgin girl children' for themselves....well I dont think too much further explanation is needed or desirable, and that's without mentioning the rather 'generous' and 'righteous' offer Lot made to his fellow urbanites.

I suggest in the days of the Old Testament when people were not even free to wear garments of mixed cloth, sexual assault (including against children) and trading in one's own off-spring were not only done openly, but also implicitly sanctioned in scripture.

Back in the day people used to be put against a wall and killed for things like this. WHERE DID THOSE DAYS GO?

Back in the day men who wanted to do shit like this would just marry a 10 year old and everyone would be happy, well, except the girl.

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