NationStates Jolt Archive

It always amuses me when people respond to the question "Why is the current attitude of the world fairly anti American?" by suggesting that it is all to do with some kind of envy. Not for me thanks - America is fairly low down on the list of places i'd like to live, behind Canada, New Zealand and most of Northen Europe. However, the same people who do assert that it MUST be jealousy are also usually vocal in their criticism of Europe, despite the fact very very few of the people have actually even left their country of birth. Does this, then, suggest that all Americans who are critical of Europe are also secretly envious?

Of course they aren't. It is possible to dislike a country WITHOUT it being linked to envy. Please can those who can't understand any reason to criticise America other than jealousy try to broaden their minds - you are only confirming the stereotype that Americans are blindly patriotic and arrogant. No country conducts itself perfectly, not America, not any European countries and to deny this is and say 'How can anyone possibly hate perfect me? Why, it must be envy!' is just ignorance in the extreme.

It always amuses me when people respond to the question "Why is the current attitude of the world fairly anti American?" by suggesting that it is all to do with some kind of envy. Not for me thanks - America is fairly low down on the list of places i'd like to live, behind Canada, New Zealand and most of Northen Europe. However, the same people who do assert that it MUST be jealousy are also usually vocal in their criticism of Europe, despite the fact very very few of the people have actually even left their country of birth. Does this, then, suggest that all Americans who are critical of Europe are also secretly envious?

Of course they aren't. It is possible to dislike a country WITHOUT it being linked to envy. Please can those who can't understand any reason to criticise America other than jealousy try to broaden their minds - you are only confirming the stereotype that Americans are blindly patriotic and arrogant. No country conducts itself perfectly, not America, not any European countries and to deny this is and say 'How can anyone possibly hate perfect me? Why, it must be envy!' is just ignorance in the extreme.



We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.

It always amuses me when people respond to the question "Why is the current attitude of the world fairly anti American?" by suggesting that it is all to do with some kind of envy. Not for me thanks - America is fairly low down on the list of places i'd like to live, behind Canada, New Zealand and most of Northen Europe. However, the same people who do assert that it MUST be jealousy are also usually vocal in their criticism of Europe, despite the fact very very few of the people have actually even left their country of birth. Does this, then, suggest that all Americans who are critical of Europe are also secretly envious?

Of course they aren't. It is possible to dislike a country WITHOUT it being linked to envy. Please can those who can't understand any reason to criticise America other than jealousy try to broaden their minds - you are only confirming the stereotype that Americans are blindly patriotic and arrogant. No country conducts itself perfectly, not America, not any European countries and to deny this is and say 'How can anyone possibly hate perfect me? Why, it must be envy!' is just ignorance in the extreme.

The "you're just jealous" argument, best summed up in the phrase "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful," is just an ego defense mechanism. There may in fact be envy (both ways) but that's kinda irrelevant, and of course it's possible to dislike a country/person/thing without being 'jealous' of it.

http://www.aneki.com/quality.html

More material possessions does not equal better life.

"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful,"

lol, so true.

It's true, just to give one example, I wouldn't want to live in a country where you have to go down on your boss to get a couple of weeks' holiday. :rolleyes:

Criticism of foreign policy does not equate to a willingness to give up all hope of a 38-hour week and a month of paid holidays to be taken at one's discretion. Similarly, I doubt that many Americans ranting on about low European defence spending are secretly dreaming of 40-50% tax burdens.

"OMFG you're just jealous!" is such a moronic comeback.

"If anti Americans are jealous of America, are anti Europeans jealous of Europe?"

Probably. Is this a problem of some sort for you? :)

Acutally, there are a number of reasons why a few people around the globe are anti-American: envy, resentment, anger at having had their ass kicked, anger at the idea that America stands in their way of world domination, anger that America won't conform to their warped ideas about religion or politics or sex and any of a thousand other idiocies.

The list is long, and definitely not distinquished. :D

It's ALL ABOUT THE LOVE.

You do raise a good point. When people say Chinese people eat their own babies, is that because they're jealous and want to eat their children?

Hm, you've gotten me thinking..

(I'm never going to drop that thing about how we eat our children)

Acutally, there are a number of reasons why a few people around the globe are anti-American: envy, resentment, anger at having had their ass kicked, anger at the idea that America stands in their way of world domination, anger that America won't conform to their warped ideas about religion or politics or sex and any of a thousand other idiocies.

The list is long, and definitely not distinquished. :D

Because of course, everyone in the world is evil except you? ;)

It's ALL ABOUT THE LOVE.

You do raise a good point. When people say Chinese people eat their own babies, is that because they're jealous and want to eat their children?

Hm, you've gotten me thinking..

(I'm never going to drop that thing about how we eat our children)



I hear they're great with soy sauce :D

Hitler wanted to be a queer jew!!

We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.

WRONG!

Canada has you beat!

Top thirty countries

Norway
Sweden
Australia
Canada
Netherlands
Belgium
Iceland
United States
Japan
Republic of Ireland
Switzerland
United Kingdom
Finland
Austria
Luxembourg
France
Denmark
New Zealand
Germany
Spain
Italy
Israel
Hong Kong SAR (PRC)
Greece
Singapore
Portugal
Slovenia
South Korea
Barbados
Cyprus

It's ALL ABOUT THE LOVE.

You do raise a good point. When people say Chinese people eat their own babies, is that because they're jealous and want to eat their children?

Hm, you've gotten me thinking..

(I'm never going to drop that thing about how we eat our children)

I guess it all comes down to what spices you use? Some sweet&sour sauce, pepper, salt, rice and soy and I'll eat anyones baby! Even yours!

I hear they're great with soy sauce :D

I wouldn't know, I don't have any kids to eat...

Or at least, not anymore..

MUHAHAHAHAHA.

Because of course, everyone in the world is evil except you? ;)
Wow! Are you the only one who got it? You win the "Smartest of NS General" Award! Yayyy! :D

I wouldn't know, I don't have any kids to eat...

Or at least, not anymore..

MUHAHAHAHAHA.
Orphans are good, plus noone cares about orphans!

Boo yah I'll be critical about America - it doesn't mean I want to live there
- why would i? see below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4020523.stm
oh and I've lived in America before andd visited many different parts, and still would never ever want to live there again, or raise a family there.

Orphans are good, plus noone cares about orphans!

Huh, that's a good point. I think I'll fly over to Mongolia sometime next week...

I mean, no I won't. We don't eat babies.

Babies are cute little creatures that taste so yummy...

Mmmm... Baby...

Edit: I think eventually I'm going to get yelled at by someone.. We shall see :D

Huh, that's a good point. I think I'll fly over to Mongolia sometime next week...

I mean, no I won't. We don't eat babies.

Babies are cute little creatures that taste so yummy...

Mmmm... Baby...

Edit: I think eventually I'm going to get yelled at by someone.. We shall see :D
I don't see why I mean they would have to not understand the cultural difference in that it's normal for you. :D ;) ;)

I don't see why I mean they would have to not understand the cultural difference in that it's normal for you. :D ;) ;)

People are alread on my backs about being born here.

I mean seriously, just because I got married off the age of 6, had my frist child by 8, ate it, had another one at 9, ate it (and so forth), that doesn't make me any less of a human.

I mean really.

People are alread on my backs about being born here.

I mean seriously, just because I got married off the age of 6, had my frist child by 8, ate it, had another one at 9, ate it (and so forth), that doesn't make me any less of a human.

I mean really.
And since I be Irish I be been drunk since I be borned, I also be wearin green and be seein leprecons.

I think it depends on the country being hated. America is awesome, thus hating it could be a result of envy. Luxembourg is looking pretty sweet, too, so it's the same deal. Hating France, however, probably doesn't mean you're jealous of it, because France sucks in every way. Only fags like Johnny Depp move to France, and only after receiving massive bribes like supermodel wives. Entire countries, on the other hand, try to move to America.

And since I be Irish I be been drunk since I be borned, I also be wearin green and be seein leprecons.

HAHA. That's a good one. I mean who's ever heard of a sober irishman?

I may eat my children, but at least I'm decent and don't get drunk all the time.

:D.

I think it depends on the country being hated. America is awesome, thus hating it could be a result of envy. Luxembourg is looking pretty sweet, too, so it's the same deal. Hating France, however, probably doesn't mean you're jealous of it, because France sucks in every way. Only fags like Johnny Depp move to France, and only after receiving massive bribes like supermodel wives. Entire countries, on the other hand, try to move to America.

Have you ever being to France or Luxumbourg?

I think it depends on the country being hated. America is awesome, thus hating it could be a result of envy. Luxembourg is looking pretty sweet, too, so it's the same deal. Hating France, however, probably doesn't mean you're jealous of it, because France sucks in every way. Only fags like Johnny Depp move to France, and only after receiving massive bribes like supermodel wives. Entire countries, on the other hand, try to move to America.
If they're fags then why do they accept supermodel wives as bribes? :confused:
(I'm taking you serious, I don't know why.)

HAHA. That's a good one. I mean who's ever heard of a sober irishman?

I may eat my children, but at least I'm decent and don't get drunk all the time.

:D.
You admited it! It's all true!

Have you ever being to France or Luxumbourg?
or Sarcasmistan? (at least, I hope that was sarcastic :p )

Have you ever being to France or Luxumbourg?

Heh, no. :p Just Italy. I wouldn't want to go to France. You couldn't pay me enough... okay, that's a lie, but I wouldn't go unless you paid me enough. Luxembourg I wouldn't mind seeing, but I'm not going to pay to go there, either.

Entire countries, on the other hand, try to move to America.
Now that would be clever.

or Sarcasmistan? (at least, I hope that was sarcastic :p )

Yes, that was 90% sarcastic. But I do hate France. I hate France like a mother loves a child... unconditionally until cocaine becomes involved.

You admited it! It's all true!

Darn! You got me with your evil Irish drunk-leprechaun mind tricks!

I should've known better!

I wouldn't like to live in the united states (not america it is a continent as well you know) as for huge numbers of your citizens it's crap

and now your turning the rest of the world into crap as well

I hate the united states as a country not americans (hell I hate more or less every country's government to some degree) but its right up there on my hate list just behind israel

Darn! You got me with your evil Irish drunk-leprechaun mind tricks!

I should've known better!
Heheheheheheheheheehehe, Oh be gosh and be gara! T'is good that ye have lost!

I wouldn't like to live in the united states (not america it is a continent as well you know) as for huge numbers of your citizens it's crap

and now your turning the rest of the world into crap as well

I hate the united states as a country not americans (hell I hate more or less every country's government to some degree) but its right up there on my hate list just behind israel

America isn't a continent, America is the United States. North America is a continent. America being an entire continent is a dirty myth propogated by the Canadian education system, alongside the "Canucks Burned Down the White House" myth.

We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.
Where are you getting your info from? The UN disagrees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index). Canada has been #1 for 9 of the past 15 years.

Heh, no. :p Just Italy. I wouldn't want to go to France. You couldn't pay me enough... okay, that's a lie, but I wouldn't go unless you paid me enough.
Why? France is a great tourist destination.

Heheheheheheheheheehehe, Oh be gosh and be gara! T'is good that ye have lost!

I hope you realise I tried by hardest to put everything stereotypically irish into that little statement. Except the mind tricks bit, you know, that was just me.

Anyways, my husband's pushing for me to go to bed. I may be his 6th concubine, and he may be 50 odd years older than me, but we still have to make babies so we can eat in 9 months.

That's us, always thinking of the future.

america is actually 2 continents

and canadians did burn down the white house

just as the british army was mainly beaten by the french rather then the americans (they were who we surrendered to)

Where are you getting your info from? The UN disagrees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index). Canada has been #1 for 9 of the past 15 years.

The Human Development Index isn't standard of living, it include it. Standard of living refers to GDP per capita. The CIA puts the United States at $40,100 and Canada at $31,500. We're also growing in GDP 2% faster than Canada. We're tied in literacy at 97%. Apparently the 2-3 years life expectancy Canada has on the U.S. outweighs the $8,600 GDP per capita the U.S. has on Canada. It IS the United Nations, so I guess I can understand why their system sucks. They can't get anything right. Anyway, point being, Rogolia was perfectly correct in saying our standard of living is higher than Canada, because it is... by a lot.

yeah the cia never gets anything wrong (what about the looming threat of grenada (a country with no military) or the fact they said britain got its independance in the 1890's (who the hell from!?!?))

Why? France is a great tourist destination.

For commies, maybe. Fuck France. I hope the Eiffel Tower falls over and kills 2500 people.

also GDP per capita doesn't work as its a mean average so you'll probably find that in canada the mean median and mode will be closer together while in the US will have some very rich people and many very poor people so it doesn't make that much sense

For commies, maybe. Fuck France. I hope the Eiffel Tower falls over and kills 2500 people.

*tuttut*

Keep saying things like that and just one day you might find your self being attacked by berets.

you do realise that france has a center government don't you

i'm a socialist and more shit happens to us in france then here (admitadly france is more to extremes so it has more right wing and more left wing then here in britain)

We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.

Really..perhaps you'd care to back that up with facts?
Canada has a higher quality of living..one of the best places in the world
to live in, according to the United Nations.
Here's the website.

http://************/bo6qf

Canada is 4th of the list, where the United States is 8th on the list.
So where did you get your facts from?

Anyway, point being, Rogolia was perfectly correct in saying our standard of living is higher than Canada, because it is... by a lot.

No it's not. The average Canadian lives better than the average American. We have no where near the poverty of the USA. Standard of living means how you live. Not what your GDP is.

I should also add that Canada leads the G8 in economic growth and has for a few years now.

*tuttut*

Keep saying things like that and just one day you might find your self being attacked by berets.

*Pumps shotgun* Bring 'em on. :D

*Pumps shotgun* Bring 'em on. :D

I was beginning to wonder when someone would actually read what I said :D

The Human Development Index isn't standard of living, it include it. Standard of living refers to GDP per capita. The CIA puts the United States at $40,100 and Canada at $31,500.
This is correct. Canada "merely" has a higher quality of life than the USA. Also remember that the American GDP per capita is driven up by all those overpaid Hollyweird celebrities, sportsmen and CEOs.

For commies, maybe. Fuck France. I hope the Eiffel Tower falls over and kills 2500 people.
Come on, explain yourself. Explain yourself or... or I'll say that 9/11 attacks were justified! (But you will probably agree with me.)

I was beginning to wonder when someone would actually read what I said :D

Well, I figured that so long as I didn't surrender, they would. Seems to be a theme of France's military history prior to and after Napoleon.

The Human Development Index isn't standard of living, it include it. Standard of living refers to GDP per capita. The CIA puts the United States at $40,100 and Canada at $31,500. We're also growing in GDP 2% faster than Canada. We're tied in literacy at 97%. Apparently the 2-3 years life expectancy Canada has on the U.S. outweighs the $8,600 GDP per capita the U.S. has on Canada. It IS the United Nations, so I guess I can understand why their system sucks. They can't get anything right. Anyway, point being, Rogolia was perfectly correct in saying our standard of living is higher than Canada, because it is... by a lot.

No, HDI (Human Development Index) includes life expectency, educational attainment, and adjusted real income.
http://************/bo6qf
But it's the CIA, so I can understand why their system sucks. I'd trust the UN before the CIA (Centra Idiot Agency) anyday. Anyway, point being, Rogolia was perfectly wrong in saying the US standard of living is higher than Canada, because it isn't... by a lot.
It's been consistently proven over and over and over again that Canada is a better country than the USA by far to live in. All impartial studies outside the USA seem to consistently place Canada ahead of the USA in the way its citizens live, and are treated by its government for their care and quality of life. In the USA, the military system is priority, wheras the health-care system of its citizens are not. In Canada, it's the other way around. I know which I prefer.

This is correct. Canada "merely" has a higher quality of life than the USA. Also remember that the American GDP per capita is driven up by all those overpaid Hollyweird celebrities, sportsmen and CEOs.

According to the UN. It seems wierd to me that a country with less than three years on another country in life expectancy wins out, despite having less than 80% of their GDP per capita and having a drastically smaller economy.

No, HDI (Human Development Index) includes life expectency, educational attainment, and adjusted real income.
http://************/bo6qf
But it's the CIA, so I can understand why their system sucks. I'd trust the UN before the CIA (Centra Idiot Agency) anyday. Anyway, point being, Rogolia was perfectly wrong in saying the US standard of living is higher than Canada, because it isn't... by a lot.
It's been consistently proven over and over and over again that Canada is a better country than the USA by far to live in. All impartial studies outside the USA seem to consistently place Canada ahead of the USA in the way its citizens live, and are treated by its government for their care and quality of life. In the USA, the military system is priority, wheras the health-care system of its citizens are not. In Canada, it's the other way around. I know which I prefer.

You're right, fuck numbers, to be truly impartial one must look at more subjective things. :rolleyes:

Besides, it doesn't matter whether the U.N. or the CIA is right, overall, the point is that standard of living, the term in economics, has nothing to do with how long you live, or with literacy.

Why are you people so obcessed with the standart of living? Im fully aware that the standart of living of MY country is well down the scale, and i still wouldnt trade it for any other country. Why?

Because i am a patriot. I love my country, i love my people. I love my history, my culture, the way we party, our sun, our beaches, the way our cities mix the new and the old, the way old people compliement me in the small vilages, without knowing me, i love the food, i love our women, our extravagant ways, i simply love the feel of my country. Its an irrepeatable sensation. I've been in countries richer than mine. They are nice, i wouldnt mind spending more time in them. But they aint the same, there are things that are amiss.

Jesus, there are more things to life than money!

COUNTRY WITH THE MOST BILLIONARES
Rank Country Number of billionaires
1 United States 269
2 Japan 29
3 Germany 28
4 Italy 17
5 Canada 16
6 Switzerland 15
7 France 15
8 Hong Kong 14
9 Mexico 13
10 United Kingdom 12
11 Russia 8
11 Saudi Arabia 8

COUNTRY WITH THE MOST COMPUTERS
Rank Country Number of computers
1 United States 164,100,000
2 Japan 49,900,000
3 Germany 30,600,000
4 United Kingdom 26,000,000
5 France 21,800,000
6 Italy 17,500,000
7 Canada 16,000,000
8 China 15,900,000
9 Australia 10,600,000
- South Korea 10,600,000


COUNTRIES THAT HAVE WON THE MOST MISS UNIVERSE TITLES
Rank Country Number of Miss Universe Titles
1 United States 7
2 Venezuela 4
2 Puerto Rico 4
4 Sweden 3
5 Trinidad and Tobago 2
5 Thailand 2
5 Philippines 2
5 India 2
5 Finland 2
5 Brazil 2

COUNTRY WITH MOST NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS
Rank Country Number of Laureates
1 United States 270
2 United Kingdom 101
3 Germany 76
4 France 49
5 Sweden 30
6 Switzerland 22
7 Netherlands 15
8 USSR 14
8 Italy 14
10 Denmark 13
11 Japan 12
12 Austria 11
13 Canada 10
14 Spain 6
14 Australia 6
16 Ireland 5
16 Israel 5
16 Poland 5
16 South Africa 5
16 Argentina 5
21 India 4

According to the UN. It seems wierd to me that a country with less than three years on another country in life expectancy wins out, despite having less than 80% of their GDP per capita and having a drastically smaller economy.

Perhaps its just overall quality, in the way the citizens are treated. Where you get healthcare before they check how much insurance you have. Where the military doesn't get carte blanche to the budget for whatever its whims are. Where life indeed seems to be more relaxed, peaceful, and overall healthy. Canadians don't stress about gays or gay marriages as they do in the states, marijuana possession isn't that big a deal, we have a government who sets persecription drug prices so people can afford them, those things add up.
It's amazing..you have busloads of American seniors that come up to Canada to purchase their prescription medicine. Speaks volumes.
Canada's not perfect, but it's not hard to find the reasons why it consistently ranks higher than the USA as a better place to live.

Just a little about why I like it here. Europe is cool too though!

Perhaps its just overall quality, in the way the citizens are treated. Where you get healthcare before they check how much insurance you have. Where the military doesn't get carte blanche to the budget for whatever its whims are. Where life indeed seems to be more relaxed, peaceful, and overall healthy. Canadians don't stress about gays or gay marriages as they do in the states, <a href='http://www.consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=89' target='_blank'>marijuana</a> possession isn't that big a deal, we have a government who sets persecription drug prices so people can afford them, those things add up.
It's amazing..you have busloads of American seniors that come up to Canada to purchase their prescription medicine. Speaks volumes.
Canada's not perfect, but it's not hard to find the reasons why it consistently ranks higher than the USA as a better place to live.


In other words, it depends whether you want to compare nations objectively or subjectively.

It always amuses me when people respond to the question "Why is the current attitude of the world fairly anti American?" by suggesting that it is all to do with some kind of envy. Not for me thanks - America is fairly low down on the list of places i'd like to live, behind Canada, New Zealand and most of Northen Europe. However, the same people who do assert that it MUST be jealousy are also usually vocal in their criticism of Europe, despite the fact very very few of the people have actually even left their country of birth. Does this, then, suggest that all Americans who are critical of Europe are also secretly envious?

Of course they aren't. It is possible to dislike a country WITHOUT it being linked to envy. Please can those who can't understand any reason to criticise America other than jealousy try to broaden their minds - you are only confirming the stereotype that Americans are blindly patriotic and arrogant. No country conducts itself perfectly, not America, not any European countries and to deny this is and say 'How can anyone possibly hate perfect me? Why, it must be envy!' is just ignorance in the extreme.

So what country are you from? If I had to take a wild guess I'd say you are some kind of A-rab with hate for Western Civilization Since you dislike America Canda and Northern Europe assuming Northern Europe includeds England and Germany

According to the UN. It seems wierd to me that a country with less than three years on another country in life expectancy wins out, despite having less than 80% of their GDP per capita and having a drastically smaller economy.
The UN probably counted things like public health care, transport and numerous other such services that are availible to Canadians.

America is TWO continents.

North America and South America...

The United States of America simply shares a part of it's name with the continent that it is in.

For example : "The Congo" is not the same as "The Democratic Republic of Congo" and "South Africa" is a country in the continent "Africa". Or in the US "Washington" is a different place to "Washington DC". It would be incorrect to refer to "Washington DC" as "Washington"

In common language when people say 'America' people do tend to recognise the term as refering to the United states of America but this incorrect as the correct name is The United States of America.

Look at the top of your dollar bill. Does it say "America" or "The United States of America" if you look at the signiture on the bottom left of the face side you will see the persons title is "Treasurer of the United States". Your president is known as the "President of The Unites States of America". Your postal service also has "U" and "S" in the name. Your Armed forces are called the "US Air Force" and the "US Navy" A ship in the Navy is called the "USS whatever" where USS stands for United States Ship - do you see "America" anywhere in the title.

A·mer·i·ca ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-mr-k)

The United States.
also the A·mer·i·cas (-kz). The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America

Only means both when plural. Single means the U.S. I rest my case.

America is TWO continents.

North America and South America...

The United States of America simply shares a part of it's name with the continent that it is in.

For example : "The Congo" is not the same as "The Democratic Republic of Congo" and "South Africa" is a country in the continent "Africa". Or in the US "Washington" is a different place to "Washington DC". It would be incorrect to refer to "Washington DC" as "Washington"

In common language when people say 'America' people do tend to recognise the term as refering to the United states of America but this incorrect as the correct name is The United States of America.

Look at the top of your dollar bill. Does it say "America" or "The United States of America" if you look at the signiture on the bottom left of the face side you will see the persons title is "Treasurer of the United States". Your president is known as the "President of The Unites States of America". Your postal service also has "U" and "S" in the name. Your Armed forces are called the "US Air Force" and the "US Navy" A ship in the Navy is called the "USS whatever" where USS stands for United States Ship - do you see "America" anywhere in the title.
I think you need a xanax, partner. Its called America when people call it America, and The United States of America when people call it The United States of America. Ever heard of the song "America, the Beautiful?" relax a bit.

[QUOTE=Sick Dreams]COUNTRY WITH THE MOST BILLIONARES
Rank Country Number of billionaires
1 United States 269
5 Canada 16

COUNTRY WITH THE MOST COMPUTERS
Rank Country Number of computers
1 United States 164,100,000
7 Canada 16,000,000

COUNTRIES THAT HAVE WON THE MOST MISS UNIVERSE TITLES
Rank Country Number of Miss Universe Titles
1 United States 7

COUNTRY WITH MOST NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS
Rank Country Number of Laureates
1 United States 270
13 Canada 10
>>

Excellent..thanks for those stats:
Here's few more...

Crime: Murders with firearms (per capita)
8. United States 0.02 per 1000 people
20. Canada 0.00 per 1000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

Military: Expenditures - Dollar figure (per capita)
2. United States $1253.49 per person
29. Canada $298.78 per person

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig_cap

Crime: Murders (per capita)
24. United States 0.04 per 1000 people
44. Canada 0.01 per 1000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

Crime: Rapes
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

You're right, fuck numbers, to be truly impartial one must look at more subjective things. :rolleyes:

Besides, it doesn't matter whether the U.N. or the CIA is right, overall, the point is that standard of living, the term in economics, has nothing to do with how long you live, or with literacy.

Sure, there's lies, damned lies, and statistics. :gundge:

Well, it may not matter whether the UN or CidiotA is right, overall, more and more studies seem to favour that Canada has the better standard of living. If you wish to get down to the nitty-gritty, by all means.

We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.

Which is a concept relative to the cost of living; if you get paid 2 x the amount, but it costs 3x the amount to live, are you really actually better off?

Relative to the amount I get paid each week, I'm pretty confident that relative to the cost of living, I have a higher standard of living than many Americans.

Excellent..thanks for those stats:
Here's few more...

Crime: Murders with firearms (per capita)
8. United States 0.02 per 1000 people
20. Canada 0.00 per 1000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

You posted the stats on murder AND murder with guns? Couldn't find enough stuff that Canada beat the U.S. on so you had to be redundant?

Military: Expenditures - Dollar figure (per capita)
2. United States $1253.49 per person
29. Canada $298.78 per person

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig_cap


That's a bad thing? I'd rather an over funded military than an under funded one.


Crime: Rapes
1. United States 89,110 (1999) 295,734,134
3. Canada 24,049 (2000) 32,805,041

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

Also known as:

Rape (per capita)

United States: .0301%
Canada: .0733%

My God, was that a fucking retarded statistic to post. You never were very good at math, were you?

The proper name for America is The United States of America, or the USA in abbreviated form. America is a lazy term, slang much like ain't. It's accepted, but not proper usage. Hell, why not shorten it more, we could call it 'merica.
Everyone would know what we were talkign about when we said 'merica.
Or heck, just "States".
The United States of America, or USA for short, shares the continent of North America with its bigger and friendlier neighbour to the north, Canada, and it's warmer and more relaxed neighbour to the south, Mexico.
Any 'mericans in disagreement with that? ;)

I don't trust the UN. It has nations with veto power. Only a few nations there hold any real power. Way too central. Plus, it's corrupt. Any group of nations that puts dictators in charge of human and political rights isn't exactly all there.The US should just quit the UN and withhold all funding to and from there. I just don't trust it. Plus, all polls and statistics are a bit biased.

So whats all that about the US and why does your military not have "America" in the title? And if the correct name is "America" then why does it not say that on your Currency? USA?

If the country was "America" only then North and South America would refer to places in the United States.

The correct name is "The United States of America" which is often abbreviated to USA ot The US. How often do you see it abbreviated to "A"

Jesus titty-fucking Christ, neither name is more correct, they're fucking synonymous, they're fucking interchangeable, you were wrong, just drop it and save yourself from looking like an ass. Please.

So whats all that about the US and why does your military not have "America" in the title? And if the correct name is "America" then why does it not say that on your Currency? USA?

If the country was "America" only then North and South America would refer to places in the United States.

The correct name is "The United States of America" which is often abbreviated to USA ot The US. How often do you see it abbreviated to "A"

ugh. Officially it's the United States of America, that's the name of our country. The United States is as correct as just America. They're both abreviated to mean the USA. When someone wishes to refer to a continent, they use the direction, North America, or South America (sure Central America if they're so inclined) however when America is said, it refers to the USA. Unless otherwise stated. think of it with the pronoun rules. So stop nitpicking.

So whats all that about the US and why does your military not have "America" in the title? And if the correct name is "America" then why does it not say that on your Currency? USA?

If the country was "America" only then North and South America would refer to places in the United States.

The correct name is "The United States of America" which is often abbreviated to USA ot The US. How often do you see it abbreviated to "A"

Yeah but what do you call people who come from the United States?

You posted the stats on murder AND murder with guns? Couldn't find enough stuff that Canada beat the U.S. on so you had to be redundant?

Yeah, it's called lax gun laws, and the NRA. You can murder somone without a gun..but hey, I'm glad I could point that out to you.

That's a bad thing? I'd rather an over funded military than an under funded one.

Yes it is. Can we say warmonger? I knew we could.

Also known as:

Rape (per capita)

United States: .0301%
Canada: .0733%

My God, was that a fucking retarded statistic to post. You never were very good at math, were you?

My math is fine.
Here's the numbers :
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

No, it just shows that Canada has it's share of problems too. But hey, unlike some 'merica glorifers who seem to think they're fucking god's gift to the fiucking world and can't get their head out of their asses long enough to realize how much of a putz they're showing themselves to be, I understand we have our share of problems too, and was pointing that out. Because, only in the States, would having hte most Miss Universe titles be considered to be an asset. Guess you can never have enough bubble-headed bleach blondes.

The proper name for America is The United States of America, or the USA in abbreviated form. America is a lazy term, slang much like ain't. It's accepted, but not proper usage. Hell, why not shorten it more, we could call it 'merica.
Everyone would know what we were talkign about when we said 'merica.
Or heck, just "States".
The United States of America, or USA for short, shares the continent of North America with its bigger and friendlier neighbour to the north, Canada, and it's warmer and more relaxed neighbour to the south, Mexico.
Any 'mericans in disagreement with that? ;)

It's not slang, really, at least not according to basic dictionaries. If it were, dictionary.com and the like would note that, as they do with all other slang words. It's just a shorter way to write "The Best Country In the World." North America is a continent. So is South America. America, on the other hand, is not. The Americas are two continents. What's so complicated?

Heh, no. :p Just Italy. I wouldn't want to go to France. You couldn't pay me enough... okay, that's a lie, but I wouldn't go unless you paid me enough. Luxembourg I wouldn't mind seeing, but I'm not going to pay to go there, either.
Sooo glad about it: one less moron talking loud, making dorky comments and behaving like a conqueror in the streets of my beloved city! Thanks a lot, that's a measure of sanitation! :p

[QUOTE=Sick Dreams]COUNTRY WITH THE MOST BILLIONARES
Rank Country Number of billionaires
1 United States 269
5 Canada 16

COUNTRY WITH THE MOST COMPUTERS
Rank Country Number of computers
1 United States 164,100,000
7 Canada 16,000,000

COUNTRIES THAT HAVE WON THE MOST MISS UNIVERSE TITLES
Rank Country Number of Miss Universe Titles
1 United States 7

COUNTRY WITH MOST NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS
Rank Country Number of Laureates
1 United States 270
13 Canada 10
>>

Excellent..thanks for those stats:
Here's few more...

Crime: Murders with firearms (per capita)
8. United States 0.02 per 1000 people
20. Canada 0.00 per 1000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

Military: Expenditures - Dollar figure (per capita)
2. United States $1253.49 per person
29. Canada $298.78 per person

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig_cap

Crime: Murders (per capita)
24. United States 0.04 per 1000 people
44. Canada 0.01 per 1000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

Crime: Rapes
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap

Then theres this.

Proportion of people in international Crime Victims Survey 2000 who say police do a good job in controlling crime in their area.

Amount
1. United States 89%
2. Canada 87%



Proportions in International Crime Victims Survey 2000 reporting that they feel safe walking in the dark.

Amount
1. United States 82%
2. Canada 82%


Proportions in International Crime Victims Survey 2000 who feel they can report crimes to police - perception.

Amount
1. United States 52%
2. Canada 48%

Proportions in International Crime Victims Survey 2000 reporting that they feel only a small risk of burglary.

Amount
1. United States 78%
2. Canada 66%

Yeah but what do you call people who come from the United States?
USians! ;) :D

Rape (per capita)

United States: .0301%
Canada: .0733%

My God, was that a fucking retarded statistic to post. You never were very good at math, were you?[/QUOTE]

and no, I posted the original numbers..so fucking post something different than what I posted, asshole. Are you fucking retarded? This is what I posted, not per capita.

My math is fine.
Here's the numbers :
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

Don't EVER put something down as posted by me, when it's something totally different. I listed total rapes, not per capita, asshole. So don't be changing what I said for your argument.

Moron. :sniper:

[QUOTE=Flynnfx]

Then theres this.

Proportion of people in international Crime Victims Survey 2000 who say police do a good job in controlling crime in their area.

Amount
1. United States 89%
2. Canada 87%



Proportions in International Crime Victims Survey 2000 reporting that they feel safe walking in the dark.

Amount
1. United States 82%
2. Canada 82%


Proportions in International Crime Victims Survey 2000 who feel they can report crimes to police - perception.

Amount
1. United States 52%
2. Canada 48%

Proportions in International Crime Victims Survey 2000 reporting that they feel only a small risk of burglary.

Amount
1. United States 78%
2. Canada 66%


What's the website for these stats?

Rape (per capita)

United States: .0301%
Canada: .0733%

My God, was that a fucking retarded statistic to post. You never were very good at math, were you?
and no, I posted the original numbers..so fucking post something different than what I posted, asshole. Are you fucking retarded? This is what I posted, not per capita.

My math is fine.
Here's the numbers :
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

Don't EVER put something down as posted by me, when it's something totally different. I listed total rapes, not per capita, asshole. So don't be changing what I said for your argument.

Moron. :sniper:
(Grabs fire extinguisher and gets ready)

My math is fine.
Here's the numbers :
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

No, it just shows that Canada has it's share of problems too. But hey, unlike some 'merica glorifers who seem to think they're fucking god's gift to the fiucking world and can't get their head out of their asses long enough to realize how much of a putz they're showing themselves to be, I understand we have our share of problems too, and was pointing that out. Because, only in the States, would having hte most Miss Universe titles be considered to be an asset. Guess you can never have enough bubble-headed bleach blondes.

Shut the fuck up, don't even try to pretend that was intentional. You didn't even think to make sure Canada was better off on rape per capita, you fucked up. After quoting four things Canada sucked at, there was no reason to show one more, especially since that still left the score 5 to 3 with the U.S. on top, and that's giving you the redundant double-use of murder counts, and the stupid military spending stats. You should have gotten different stats, buddy.

(Grabs fire extinguisher and gets ready)

That had more flames per sentence than I've seen in a while, topped off with a death threat flame. Impressive and offensive at the same time.

It's not slang, really, at least not according to basic dictionaries. If it were, dictionary.com and the like would note that, as they do with all other slang words. It's just a shorter way to right "The Best Country In the World." North America is a continent. So is South America. America, on the other hand, is not. The Americas are two continents. What's so complicated?

You know if you're gonna troll, at least make sure it's a good one. "The Best Country in the World"..wow, thanks for the laugh.
By the way, when you post "right", make sure it's the right "write", eh?

and no, I posted the original numbers..so fucking post something different than what I posted, asshole. Are you fucking retarded? This is what I posted, not per capita.

My math is fine.
Here's the numbers :
1. United States 89,110 (1999)
3. Canada 24,049 (2000)

Don't EVER put something down as posted by me, when it's something totally different. I listed total rapes, not per capita, asshole. So don't be changing what I said for your argument.

Moron. :sniper:

Are you an idiot? I was making the point that you accidently posted something Canada was worse than the U.S. on without knowing it, I didn't post those numbers as yours, I quoted your numbers and then showed you how they looked per capita. Fuck.

[QUOTE=Sick Dreams]


What's the website for these stats?
Here it is! (http://www.nationmaster.com/index.php)

Shut the fuck up, don't even try to pretend that was intentional. You didn't even think to make sure Canada was better off on rape per capita, you fucked up. After quoting four things Canada sucked at, there was no reason to show one more, especially since that still left the score 5 to 3 with the U.S. on top, and that's giving you the redundant double-use of murder counts, and the stupid military spending stats. You should have gotten different stats, buddy.

There's no fuck-up, it's just one more attempt an some "patriot" flag-waving 'merica saying his country is grea,t no matter what. It's 'mericans like you who are the perfect example of why the us is so hated. Stupid military spending. Yeah, stupid. Spend billions on stealth aircraft, but our seniors are crossing the border to buy their prescription drugs in Canada. Yeah, that makes sense.
Murder by gun, and total murders isn't redundant at all. It shows just how fucking trigger happy the states are with its lax gun laws, just about anyone can get their own uzi. There's no different stats. And ther's no fuck-up in the stats. Per capita, Canada has more rapes. Total rapes - The US has over 60,000 more rapes a year. There's no different stats.

You know if you're gonna troll, at least make sure it's a good one. "The Best Country in the World"..wow, thanks for the laugh.
By the way, when you post "right", make sure it's the right "write", eh?
Wow, don't make me grammar check all of your posts this thread. It was a typo, buddy. By the way, it's: "You know, if you're gonna troll," not, "You know if you're gonna troll." I may not know if I'm gonna troll. Also, you are treating "troll" as a verb here. So you should have said, "If you're going to troll, troll well," or, "If you're going to be a troll, be a good one." Don't fucking mock typos, you prick.

There's no fuck-up, it's just one more attempt an some "patriot" flag-waving 'merica saying his country is grea,t no matter what. It's 'mericans like you who are the perfect example of why the us is so hated. Stupid military spending. Yeah, stupid. Spend billions on stealth aircraft, but our seniors are crossing the border to buy their prescription drugs in Canada. Yeah, that makes sense.
Murder by gun, and total murders isn't redundant at all. It shows just how fucking trigger happy the states are with its lax gun laws, just about anyone can get their own uzi. There's no different stats. And ther's no fuck-up in the stats. Per capita, Canada has more rapes. Total rapes - The US has over 60,000 more rapes a year. There's no different stats.

And before I get jumped on by the numbers, that was a typos..over 50,000 rapes more per year.

There's no fuck-up, it's just one more attempt an some "patriot" flag-waving 'merica saying his country is grea,t no matter what. It's 'mericans like you who are the perfect example of why the us is so hated. Stupid military spending. Yeah, stupid. Spend billions on stealth aircraft, but our seniors are crossing the border to <a href='http://www.consumeralertsystem.com/cas/zx-hclick.php?hid=334' target='_blank'>buy</a> their prescription drugs in Canada. Yeah, that makes sense.
Murder by gun, and total murders isn't redundant at all. It shows just how fucking trigger happy the states are with its lax gun laws, just about anyone can get their own uzi. There's no different stats. And ther's no fuck-up in the stats. Per capita, Canada has more rapes.

I'm not certain, but I don't remember canuck gun control laws being much tighter than American ones. We're just naturally more violence-prone.

Total rapes - The US has over 60,000 more rapes a year. There's no different stats.

No shit, and well it should, considering we have ten times your population.

Man, I wish I had some popcorn!

There's no fuck-up, it's just one more attempt an some "patriot" flag-waving 'merica saying his country is grea,t no matter what. It's 'mericans like you who are the perfect example of why the us is so hated. Stupid military spending. Yeah, stupid. Spend billions on stealth aircraft, but our seniors are crossing the border to buy their prescription drugs in Canada. Yeah, that makes sense.
Murder by gun, and total murders isn't redundant at all. It shows just how fucking trigger happy the states are with its lax gun laws, just about anyone can get their own uzi. There's no different stats. And ther's no fuck-up in the stats. Per capita, Canada has more rapes. Total rapes - The US has over 60,000 more rapes a year. There's no different stats.

I guess you forget it's that military spending that keeps the US and Canada safe today (you don't have to spend money because we're protecting you from everything), ended two World Wars, liberated Kuwait, ended the Cold War, freed Afghanistan from an oppressive theocracy, and is in the process of transitioning Iraq to democracy.

Chances are, if the US wasn't here, you'd have been taken over by Japan, the USSR, or Germany in WWII. They invaded our Alaska, and without our defense spending would have gone farther than the Aleutians.

Guess what...the criminals are going to get the guns regardless of a ban! Allowing people to own guns reduces crime because criminals aren't going to fuck around as much if they can get their heads blown off by a 70 year old woman.

Per capita is more important than total number. In a bigger country, there will be more crime as a net number because there are more people. If you have a higher per capita rate, then if size of the two countries are equal you would in fact have more crimes as a total.

Canada's population in only 11% of the US's, so there will only 11% as many crimes if the per capita rates are equal.

"Rape" was a poor stat to use to show Canada is better than the US as stats have to be per population.

It is also a poor indicator as Rape is a very poorly reported crime, with reporting rates varying by large degrees across different cultures with women being much more reluctant to report rape in conservative cultures.

BTW - has anyone managed to find an official government site that refers to the USA as "America"? The first three i found said "United States" only.

I'd love to see the stats to support that... rape reported less in conservative cultures... wow. Besides, I hope you're not trying to imply that the rape statistics in the U.S. are so off do to lack of reporting and so precise in Canada that the U.S. could actually have as many or more rapes per capita.

Wow, don't make me grammar check all of your posts this thread. It was a typo, buddy. By the way, it's: "You know, if you're gonna troll," not, "You know if you're gonna troll." I may not know if I'm gonna troll. Also, you are treating "troll" as a verb here. So you should have said, "If you're going to troll, troll well," or, "If you're going to be a troll, be a good one." Don't fucking mock typos, you prick.
You're not only a troll, you're a pathetic troll :rolleyes:

You're not only a troll, you're a pathetic troll :rolleyes:

LOL! How so? I'm not the one that started the petty grammar-checking.

Nevermind, I get it. You disagree with me, therefore I'm the pathetic one.

Confirm, meaning they already thought that going into the study, meaning they consciously or subconsciously wanted it to turn out that way. I'm not going to check the validity of the remainder of your sources, but I suspect a similar outcome.
That's rather paranoid. You would have to look at their methods.

Besides, it doesn't matter whether the U.N. or the CIA is right, overall, the point is that standard of living, the term in economics, has nothing to do with how long you live, or with literacy.
I'd say that public health care has rather a lot to do with economics.

And I think it is rather rich of you to admonish people for being insufficiently objective when you say
For commies, maybe. Fuck France. I hope the Eiffel Tower falls over and kills 2500 people.
:rolleyes:

I guess you forget it's that military spending that keeps the US and Canada safe today (you don't have to spend money because we're protecting you from everything), ended two World Wars, liberated Kuwait, ended the Cold War, freed Afghanistan from an oppressive theocracy, and is in the process of transitioning Iraq to democracy.

Chances are, if the US wasn't here, you'd have been taken over by Japan, the USSR, or Germany in WWII. They invaded our Alaska, and without our defense spending would have gone farther than the Aleutians.

I call bullshit on everything in bold.

Guess what...the criminals are going to get the guns regardless of a ban! Allowing people to own guns reduces crime because criminals aren't going to fuck around as much if they can get their heads blown off by a 70 year old woman.

There has been no correlation observed between gun control and crime rate one way or the other.

It has been observed, though, thatn in stricter gun-control period, the crime rate was lower. (In the US)

Per capita is more important than total number. In a bigger country, there will be more crime as a net number because there are more people. If you have a higher per capita rate, then if size of the two countries are equal you would in fact have more crimes as a total.

Canada's population in only 11% of the US's, so there will only 11% as many crimes if the per capita rates are equal.
Crime rate per capita is lower in Canada than the US. Either Gun-related or not. In fact, it seems the only crime that is higher (per capita) in Canada is rape.

Which I am not proud of, mind you.

These are the first 4 google kicked out. I'm not saying they are foolproof studies but i think given the nature of the crime an entirely accurate study would be hard to find.

Which was exactly my point. You can't accurately judge where rape is reported less because - guess what? - it's not reported. So anyone that would try to say otherwise - and attempt find statistics to back that up - obviously has a bias before the fact. Which is quite apparently the case in your quote:

"Sex-assault counselors say that research showing rural women at high risk of rape--and low likelihood of reporting it--confirm their impression that conservative rural societies stifle talk about the topic."

Confirm, meaning they already thought that going into the study, meaning they consciously or subconsciously wanted it to turn out that way. I'm not going to check the validity of the remainder of your sources, but I suspect a similar outcome.

Which was exactly my point. You can't accurately judge where rape is reported less because - guess what? - it's not reported. So anyone that would try to say otherwise - and attempt find statistics to back that up - obviously has a bias before the fact. Which is quite apparently the case in your quote:



Confirm, meaning they already thought that going into the study, meaning they consciously or subconsciously wanted it to turn out that way. I'm not going to check the validity of the remainder of your sources, but I suspect a similar outcome.

You asked for stats, i showed you stats.

"All Stats Are Invalid" id not a proper arguement if you asked for them in the first place.

Still waiting on the government link

EDIT: btw the study was inteperted by the people who wrote the article, not researched by them. the CDC had similar findings it seems.

I guess you forget it's that military spending that [snip] ended the Cold War, freed Afghanistan from an oppressive theocracy, and is in the process of transitioning Iraq to democracy.

Aehm, yep, right :rolleyes:

Cold war ended because the eastern block economically imploded. That was partly due to an excessive arms race, but had other reasons as well. Especially as the end of the CW didn't origin in the Soviet Union, but in their satellite states.

Afghanistan is in no way a free secure country. The US couldn't give a toss when the taliban were in power. Human rights over there? Don't care! Blowing up Budha statues that belong to the UN world heritage? Don't care! Osama might hide there and we need to be seen to take some action after that intelligence disaster that helped make 9/11 possible? Let's bomb the bastards!
What have we now? Increase in heroin production, tyrannical warlords ruling and the US having lost interest, after deciding to ...

... go for the Oil. True, Sadam was an evil tyrant and someone should have toppeled the guy - but when Iraq was invaded it was not the right time, nor the right excuse. Iraq is in no way a democracy and it won't be one for a long time (at least not what we understand a democracy to be). The best we can hope for at the moment is a type of democracy like Iran and that's where it's heading to. In the meantime, Iraq became a top spot for breeding terrorist (which it wasn't before - Sadam was too careful then to let armed militia run around) and is on the brink of a civil war. Well done!

I call bullshit on everything in bold.

If the United States was not here, would Canada be able to defend itself against the aggressions of a well equipped and mobilized military power?

Who was it that defeated Japan, and defeated Germany with the help of its Allies, and ensured the creation of democratic regimes and the suppression of fascism in those countries?

The United States pursued an arms race that bankrupted the USSR, and gave us leverage to pressure Gorbachev to loosen Communist control, with the end result being the destruction of the world's greatest opponent of freedom.

Afghanistan is better than it was under the Taliban by a long shot, although the future is yet to be seen.
There has been no correlation observed between gun control and crime rate one way or the other.

If gun control has no effect on crime, then why regulate the right to possess them?


It has been observed, though, thatn in stricter gun-control period, the crime rate was lower. (In the US)

Not really, because at most only 10-20% of violent crime is commited with guns, and the biggest were commited with illegal firearms.

Crime rate per capita is lower in Canada than the US. Either Gun-related or not. In fact, it seems the only crime that is higher (per capita) in Canada is rape.
Which I am not proud of, mind you.

It probably has to do with more effective policing than anything, but I can't tell since data seems to be hard to find.

You asked for stats, i showed you stats.

"All Stats Are Invalid" id not a proper arguement if you asked for them in the first place.

Still waiting on the government link

EDIT: btw the study was inteperted by the people who wrote the article, not researched by them. the CDC had similar findings it seems.

All stats aren't invalid, but most stats reported by parties with a premature bias towards a subjects - which anyone who would attempt to conduct a project that figured out whether rapes were more likely to be reported in more liberal cultures would obviously have - are massively off. Especially considering the fact that the stats being recorded are being recorded on things that were never officially reported or proved. It's like proving to a sibling that they never said something - it's not possible without a recording of the entire history of things they've said.

One thought on the original post:

If I was envious of the USA in any respect, I would go and live there. The fact that I'm still a happy European ought to prove that I'm not jealous on anything you guys over there have. I visited once, saw that I was better of in the old world, and selected my country of choice over here.

And yet, I do have my problems with the way the USA behaves internationally and treats some of its citizens.

You know...before anyone becomes anti-American you should really get to know people. Not Hollywood. Not the rich people. You should get to know the everyday people who have families and friends and enjoy a nice family party with the beer and BBQ Chicken. I mean, sure, you could hate a government, but how can you hate a country when you don't know them?

My teacher told me that I couldn't hate a person until I knew them. Therefore, I can't hate any country. Sure, the news is feeding me with the sterotype that all Muslims want us dead, but does that let me hate them? No. I want to get to know them. I want to understand everyone. So, why do people yell at America when the people here have less to say in International Relations than some people think?

And what about us who fear the crime rate and actually raise good children and who have good role-models who realize that Americans can be arrogant and try to change that? I dunno, stuff like anti-americans anger me. How can you hate an entire country when you haven't lived and understood the majority of people who live normal, boring, everyday lives?

well - i made the statement, i backed it up with stats from the CDC.

you deny the statement and back your position up with nothing.


still waiting for the government site...

Aehm, yep, right :rolleyes:

Cold war ended because the eastern block economically imploded. That was partly due to an excessive arms race, but had other reasons as well. Especially as the end of the CW didn't origin in the Soviet Union, but in their satellite states.

Afghanistan is in no way a free secure country. The US couldn't give a toss when the taliban were in power. Human rights over there? Don't care! Blowing up Budha statues that belong to the UN world heritage? Don't care! Osama might hide there and we need to be seen to take some action after that intelligence disaster that helped make 9/11 possible? Let's bomb the bastards!
What have we now? Increase in heroin production, tyrannical warlords ruling and the US having lost interest, after deciding to ...

... go for the Oil. True, Sadam was an evil tyrant and someone should have toppeled the guy - but when Iraq was invaded it was not the right time, nor the right excuse. Iraq is in no way a democracy and it won't be one for a long time (at least not what we understand a democracy to be). The best we can hope for at the moment is a type of democracy like Iran and that's where it's heading to. In the meantime, Iraq became a top spot for breeding terrorist (which it wasn't before - Sadam was too careful then to let armed militia run around) and is on the brink of a civil war. Well done!

The Eastern Bloc economically imploded because we challenged them to an arms race. Their economy was stagnant, and couldn't afford the spending like we could. Eventually, it consumed so much of their economy and budget that they collapsed from the strain. That enabled us to pressure them in to reforms which started the ripple effect culminating in the end of the USSR in 1991.

I didn't say secure, but it is making progress in freedom and human rights that were unthinkable in the past. Those abuses by the Taliban were ignored by the United States, a fact which I regret deeply and feel was a mistake. That doesn't mean we've given up, and it will take more than 4 years to see the outcome of Afghanistan.

Iraq is a transitional democracy. They had elections which were UN certified and ensured to be as fair as possible. Much of Iraq is stable, and the economy and infrastructure are reviving. They are nowhere near a civil war, or there would be more violence all over the country. Ironically, the biggest reason for opposing the war was the coverup surrounding the cheap oil stolen from Iraqis by the corrupt oil for food program.

That being said, if I knew what I do now in 2002, I wouldn't have supported Iraq. However, it's too late for that and we have to focus on getting the job done and the troops home.

You know...before anyone becomes anti-American you should really get to know people. Not Hollywood. Not the rich people. You should get to know the everyday people who have families and friends and enjoy a nice family party with the beer and BBQ Chicken. I mean, sure, you could hate a government, but how can you hate a country when you don't know them?

My teacher told me that I couldn't hate a person until I knew them. Therefore, I can't hate any country. Sure, the news is feeding me with the sterotype that all Muslims want us dead, but does that let me hate them? No. I want to get to know them. I want to understand everyone. So, why do people yell at America when the people here have less to say in International Relations than some people think.

And what about us who fear the crime rate and actually raise good children and who have good role-models who realize that Americans can be arrogant and try to change that? I dunno, stuff like anti-americans anger me. How can you hate an entire country when you haven't lived and understood the majority of people who live normal, boring, everyday lives?

You may not believe me, but I don't think there really is anything like "Anti-Americanism", except for very extreme cases. and those are singular individuals mostly.

People do resent American politics, but nobody but extremists actually resent your way of live or culture.
I have the impression that anti-american is just a nice catch-phrase to silence opposition and to sell off disagreement with European governments as being something personal and actively aggressive against theUS.

If the United States was not here, would Canada be able to defend itself against the aggressions of a well equipped and mobilized military power?
If the US were not here with their military juggernaut, maybe France would be in a bottle. Maybe Japan would be located in the center of Africa. There is no way to know the outcome of this "what if" scenario. Besides, you seem to think that we have zero miliatary personnel. In a pinch, we could pull all our troops that are involved in UN and NATO actions and defend our country from any looming threat.

Who was it that defeated Japan, and defeated Germany with the help of its Allies, and ensured the creation of democratic regimes and the suppression of fascism in those countries?

Canada!
The UK!
Russia!
Spain!
hell, Australia!

it was a bloody collective effort. YOU didn't do nothing like "saving our asses". Quit revising history to give you a bigger role.

The United States pursued an arms race that bankrupted the USSR, and gave us leverage to pressure Gorbachev to loosen Communist control, with the end result being the destruction of the world's greatest opponent of freedom.
As previously stated, the arms race was one of many factors. It was even the determining one.

Afghanistan is better than it was under the Taliban by a long shot, although the future is yet to be seen.
Hardly...


If gun control has no effect on crime, then why regulate the right to possess them?

I couldn't care less either way. It just that your argument is fallcious and must pointed as such.


Not really, because at most only 10-20% of violent crime is commited with guns, and the biggest were commited with illegal firearms.
Source please?

In fact it may have to do with the way your statistical bureau define violent crime. I know Canada and the US use different method to determine these things.



It probably has to do with more effective policing than anything, but I can't tell since data seems to be hard to find.
It was posted in that very thread!

Hardly hard to find. Do a google search for pete's sake.

You may not believe me, but I don't think there really is anything like "Anti-Americanism", except for very extreme cases. and those are singular individuals mostly.

People do resent American politics, but nobody but extremists actually resent your way of live or culture.
I have the impression that anti-american is just a nice catch-phrase to silence opposition and to sell off disagreement with European governments as being something personal and actively aggressive against theUS.

Well...I didn't understand that...I'm pretty simple-minded. But, if I understood it correctly from what I could gather...thanks. It's nice to know my Irish Brother and other people from around the world understand that some things are stereotyped and extreme.

Well...I didn't understand that...I'm pretty simple-minded. But, if I understood it correctly from what I could gather...thanks. It's nice to know my Irish Brother and other people from around the world understand that some things are stereotyped and extreme.

What I was trying to say is, there is no such thing as Anti-Americanism. That word has been used in the USA to explain the resentment in the rest of the world when the USA attacked Iraq. The fact that people don't agree with politics and aggression doesn't mean they "hate" the country, on the contrary. In most of Europe, the feeling was rather that it is important to let a friend know he's making a mistake, and get a slap in the face in return. And then having to watch that old friend making the mistake despite best efforts to try and talk reason to him...
So, yes, politically, there is a lot of resentment. Personally, there is none.

What I was trying to say is, there is no such thing as Anti-Americanism. That word has been used in the USA to explain the resentment in the rest of the world when the USA attacked Iraq. The fact that people don't agree with politics and aggression doesn't mean they "hate" the country, on the contrary. In most of Europe, the feeling was rather that it is important to let a friend know he's making a mistake, and get a slap in the face in return. And then having to watch that old friend making the mistake despite best efforts to try and talk reason to him...
So, yes, politically, there is a lot of resentment. Personally, there is none.

Well, I'd have to agree with you there. Americans would definately hate to hear that...oops!...they're making a mistake. Actually, I read in a newspaper article that "the difference between America and other countries is that we admit our mistakes." This made me laugh pretty hard. And I guess we totally admitted that we were wrong when we invaded Iraq for Weapons of Mass Destruction? Nope...as I seem to see it...we said that it was a good thing because Saddam needed to be pushed out anyway...

Anyway, even if I wasn't American I'd be angry at the politics. Even so, hating American Government and hating the American People is completely different. Some people, that I've seen, can't seem to differentiate that fact. Sadly, it's the extremeists that seem to set the mindsets of the majority.

Sadly, it's the extremeists that seem to set the mindsets of the majority.

Unless you're an illiterate, trigger-happy, uninsured, Cristian fundamentalist, anti-abortionist, pro-death penalty, either working three jobs or completely overpaid for one job where you don't do any work at all redneck who never left the country and thinks Mexico is the capital of Canada, unless all those stereotypes fit you, you might agree that extremists are a small minority. But they tend to be loud, very loud...

If the US were not here with their military juggernaut, maybe France would be in a bottle. Maybe Japan would be located in the center of Africa. There is no way to know the outcome of this "what if" scenario. Besides, you seem to think that we have zero miliatary personnel. In a pinch, we could pull all our troops that are involved in UN and NATO actions and defend our country from any looming threat.

The Canadian military has about 80,000 active troops. Against a large nation, you'd be hard pressed to hold them off for long without assistance. That being said, you could mobilize more, but you'd be very vulnerable for a while.

Canada!
The UK!
Russia!
Spain!
hell, Australia!

it was a bloody collective effort. YOU didn't do nothing like "saving our asses". Quit revising history to give you a bigger role.

Those countries were part of the Allied effort, but a lot of them didn't contribute much. The big powers were the UK (including Australia/Canada), the US, and Russia. The US army mobilized 8 million plus troops, produced countless amounts of equipment and machinery and supplied its Allies with tons of vital aid. It's not revisionism, just recognizing how vital our role was to the war effort in the Pacific. I never belittled the contributions of the other Allies, but in the Pacific the bulk of the combat was undertaken by US troops while the efforts in Europe were predominantly British until 1942 or 43, and they were also predominant in North Africa. The Russians provided the final blow at Stalingrad and helped bring the War in Germany to a faster end.


As previously stated, the arms race was one of many factors. It was even the determining one.

Yes, but it was enough to tip the scale. We needed to push the USSR to collapse, and the arms race gave us the leverage to do it.

Hardly...

Well, a lot of opportunity has opened for women, education is recovering, and a murderous theocracy is gone. That's at least some impovement.


I couldn't care less either way. It just that your argument is fallcious and must pointed as such.

But why bring it up if you don't care? I was responding to the previous poster's extremely anti-American insult about our second amendment right, and demonstrating the illogic of their position.



Source please?
In fact it may have to do with the way your statistical bureau define violent crime. I know Canada and the US use different method to determine these things.

http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%20Crime.htm

It depends; I think the previous comment about the rural crime being underreported is true because crime is overall higher in those regions, and police are less common. Furthermore, there are different standards, so a comparison is difficult to make.

well - i made the statement, i backed it up with stats from the CDC.

you deny the statement and back your position up with nothing.


still waiting for the government site...

If well-reasoned logic is "nothing" to you, fine. Poorly collected statistics on immeasurable things are nothing to me, so I'm just combating nothing with nothing.

And it still doesn't matter whether there is a government site that uses the word America, anyway, because the fact remains that dictionaries think you're a moron, and that they say the titles are interchangeable, and that you're wrong.

You know...before anyone becomes anti-American you should really get to know people. Not Hollywood. Not the rich people. You should get to know the everyday people who have families and friends and enjoy a nice family party with the beer and BBQ Chicken. I mean, sure, you could hate a government, but how can you hate a country when you don't know them?

My teacher told me that I couldn't hate a person until I knew them. Therefore, I can't hate any country. Sure, the news is feeding me with the sterotype that all Muslims want us dead, but does that let me hate them? No. I want to get to know them. I want to understand everyone. So, why do people yell at America when the people here have less to say in International Relations than some people think?

And what about us who fear the crime rate and actually raise good children and who have good role-models who realize that Americans can be arrogant and try to change that? I dunno, stuff like anti-americans anger me. How can you hate an entire country when you haven't lived and understood the majority of people who live normal, boring, everyday lives?



it's just like the many people who hate people from iraq, take for instance the london bombings, when that happened i am ashamed to say someone or some group attacked many Auckland Mosques (forgive any spelling mistakes im only young) as if the people here in New Zealand had anything to do with the London bombings??!! We all live in democracies (or so we think) meaning we have a say in who holds power in our country and who runs it, allowing a 'man' (i am using the term litely b/c i dont knw how someone could do what he has done) like Bush to run a country must reflect on its people? I'm not saying blind hate against America is all rite but to those who voted for him, or not against him the blame for the deaths of countless human being lay at your feet, this, along with some other issues, is why i won't live in america and why i use the term (albeit litely) 'i hate americans'

If well-reasoned logic is "nothing" to you, fine. Poorly collected statistics on immeasurable things are nothing to me, so I'm just combating nothing with nothing.

And it still doesn't matter whether there is a government site that uses the word America, anyway, because the fact remains that dictionaries think you're a moron, and that they say the titles are interchangeable, and that you're wrong.

How do you know they are poorly collected? As i said - you asked for statistics and I gave them to you - theyre from a government agency if it helps.

And the fact is that the US government does not call the US "America". In the embassy and state department sites the word "America" does not even appear. On the CIA one they only use the word "America" to refer to the continent and not even to the United States - which they call "United States". On the Canada page of the CIA site they show The United States on the map as "United States". Look - I'm just going with your government here.


Regarding the WW1 and WW2 I admit that the US played a vital role in ending both wars but they were far from the only people there (dispite Hollywood lies). In both cases The US arrived pretty late on the scene only after attacks against the US. WW1 could probably have been won without the US (although it would have taken much longer). WW2 would probably not have been won by the allies without the US, but then D-Day would have been impossible if Britain had fallen, and the Pacific would have been a very different storey without ANZAC troops (Australia and New Zealand - who per population put out more troops than almost any other country) who fought the Japanese to some of their first defeats or the Chinese Communists who were also fighting Japan. Or Russia who finally worked out Hitler was a prick. I am not up on Canadian history so do not know where they fought but along with all countried that were with the allied forces their contribution made a difference.
It really was a team effort and i think that if any of the countries involved had not put in their share the outcomes would not be what they are.

ironicly im going to quote ol' Honest Abe roughly cos im no memory box 'to truly know a person, give him power'- America, as a leading country in the developed world has acted terribly in the past, im not ignoring the good they have done but frankly its not enough, Nuclear testing in the pacific resulting in 'jelly-babies' the countless wars they have instigated and somehow profited from. And the issue of its indigenous peoples! petes sake! the words 'land of freedom' come to mind, the arcane laws that allowed some pompous explorer to go to another land wave a flag on a high point thereby claiming it for his country is just tht, ARCANE! i was at a seminar re: the treaty of Waitangi being enshrined in a constitution (newzealands so-called funding document) and Moana Jackson was telling us about a case where a group of indigenous peoples form Australia flew to France hired a boat and rowed to the shores of england waved their aboriginal flag on a high point and then as aboriginal custom dictated proceeded to the beach and handed out gifts(it just so happened that the poeple they were handing out gifts to were australians on holiday in england) eventually they were arrested for disturbing the peace, in court the judge said what they were doing was 'preposterous' and they replied 'exactly our point' --i hope its been a learning experience :P

^^ When claiming a land for your country it helps to have a bigger army than the guys already there.

Yeah - The US, Australia, NZ and many others have a lot to answer for for what they did to the people already there.

How do you know they are poorly collected? As i said - you asked for statistics and I gave them to you - theyre from a government agency if it helps.

And the fact is that the US government does not call the US "America". In the embassy and state department sites the word "America" does not even appear. On the CIA one they only use the word "America" to refer to the continent and not even to the United States - which they call "United States". On the Canada page of the CIA site they show The United States on the map as "United States". Look - I'm just going with your government here.


Regarding the WW1 and WW2 I admit that the US played a vital role in ending both wars but they were far from the only people there (dispite Hollywood lies). In both cases The US arrived pretty late on the scene only after attacks against the US. WW1 could probably have been won without the US (although it would have taken much longer). WW2 would probably not have been won by the allies without the US, but then D-Day would have been impossible if Britain had fallen, and the Pacific would have been a very different storey without ANZAC troops (Australia and New Zealand - who per population put out more troops than almost any other country) who fought the Japanese to some of their first defeats or the Chinese Communists who were also fighting Japan. Or Russia who finally worked out Hitler was a prick. I am not up on Canadian history so do not know where they fought but along with all countried that were with the allied forces their contribution made a difference.
It really was a team effort and i think that if any of the countries involved had not put in their share the outcomes would not be what they are.



not surprisingly i agree with fourX we did send ,in proportion to our pop, alot of people, i remember doing a study on the Battle of Britain and this book was so detailed it went rite down to recording the number of peoples in the RAF to 1 palestinian and 1 Jamaican, Niue also sent many of its men, more in proportion to its population than many other countries, i think we sent (i am part Niuean) over 100 men, and only a handful came back, i better get off to skool, i was meant only to wag (bunk/playing hooky?) the 1st pd

For all the talk about the US military defending Canada... what nation would attack Canada anyway, if they could?

We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.

Errm, depends on your definition of higher standard of living. For example both New Zealand and Canada have lower polution levels than the US. Both are "First world" countries with good health systems, democratic goverments and - most improtantly - both have a better awareness of the rest of the world. Also in Canada and NZ you are much less likly to be shot (especially on the South Island of NZ, I've lived there and to be frank you are more likly to be struck by a golf ball than be shot) and personally I would say that a country where you are less likly to be shot has a higher standard of "living". Oh and America has rather more in the way of junk food than either of the other two countries and with more than 20% of the population classed as "seriously obese" I would say that NZ (seriously obese people = <2% and Canada <10%) and Canada are rather better on this front too.

Need I go on?

^^ When claiming a land for your country it helps to have a bigger army than the guys already there.

Yeah - The US, Australia, NZ and many others have a lot to answer for for what they did to the people already there.

i can say proudly though that many colonise dpeoples have achieved something no coloniser could, they/we have become bi-cultural, but only just, many colonised peoples are not being taught their native tongue as a result of the 'colonised mentality' languages and precious knowledge is not being passed on to the younger generation b/c the elders deem it unnecesary in a 'white' society, colonisers have more than they knw to account for,

For all the talk about the US military defending Canada... what nation would attack Canada anyway, if they could?

This is a very good point - If countries like you then they will not attack you.

i can say proudly though that many colonise dpeoples have achieved something no coloniser could, they/we have become bi-cultural, but only just, many colonised peoples are not being taught their native tongue as a result of the 'colonised mentality' languages and precious knowledge is not being passed on to the younger generation b/c the elders deem it unnecesary in a 'white' society, colonisers have more than they knw to account for,

Well thats certainly a point, although not entirly accurate. Afterall during the days of the Empire, many British public school chaps were brought up knowing more about India or Africa than their own nation. To an extent this has continued, but has shown more as a rise in multi-cultural cities and other societies.

We have a higher standard of living than NZ and Canada.
I can't speak for Canada having never been there but NZ certainly has a higher standard of living then the UK, it has a small popultaion of citizens which instantly makes it easier to govern, it's people live in the cleanest most environmentally stunning surrounding I have ever witnessed, they stay out of international disputes and therefore have little need for a profesional army so a substancial amount of government spending goes towards welfare and education, they enjoy all the benefits of a stable economy, infact about the only draw back of living in New Zealand is that you're cut off from almost every other continent in the world.... maybe not such a bad thing after all?!
As for America, well I admit, I have been acused of being anti American in the past, I've been there, more then once and in many ways enjoyed my trip but the idea of being jealous of such a nation is laughable. England (my home country) has many if not all of the qualities that America possess' such as an international cosmopolitain society, beautiful diverse landscape, a democratic government (though that is debatable on both sides of the Atlantic), but I'm afraid America is lacking the enthusiasm to see beyong it's boarders, it's true that geographically the continent of north America is short on very few attributes but guys you need to start to see beyond that!! There are foreign territories with foreign languages, there are places in the world where nutters don't roam the streets with M16's that they bought from their local corner shop, exotic foods and cultures and stunning man and women which you'll never meet within the confines of your local taco bell!! Lose some weight, stop watching naff comedies, in fact switch off the T.V, impeach George Bush and find your way to the nearest passport agency and you'll soon find the rest of the world might start offering you a little more credibility!!

There are foreign territories with foreign languages, there are places in the world where nutters don't roam the streets with M16's that they bought from their local corner shop, exotic foods and cultures and stunning man and women which you'll never meet within the confines of your local taco bell!! Lose some weight, stop watching naff comedies, in fact switch off the T.V, impeach George Bush and find your way to the nearest passport agency and you'll soon find the rest of the world might start offering you a little more credibility!!
I know you said you've been here before, but what you wrote above certainly makes me wonder if that's true! WTF has led you to believe that "nutters ... roam the streets with M16's that they bought from their local corner store?" And any large metropolitan area in the US, and not a few smaller ones, can offer just about every sort of cuisine you can imagine.

If this is a display of the sort of "credibility" we can expect if we impeach our President ( who, btw, hasn't done anything which would justify impeachment ), then I for one want no part of it! Jeeze! You're either blind, have a hidden agenda, or are just about two sandwitches short of a picnic!

Before commenting, I would like to offer a poem by Bertolt Brecht (pardon my unfortunate translation from a sadly waning memory):

Over my desk there hangs
A Japanese mask
Of some divinity.

I study the bulging eyes
And the swollen veins
Of the forehead,

And I realise how very
strenuous it is to hate.

Americans are no better and no worse than other peoples; to my mind only an imbecile would hate another person, much less a whole nation. To be jealous of another nation seems to me the result of ignorance. The USA has both benefitted and suffered from its break with Great Britain. That Americans find their country to be better than other lands is the product of a number of elements: a) gross ignorance (or a will to stupidity), b) a constant and shameless propaganda that preaches an 'intimate' connection between the creator and the USA, c) an historical accident that allowed Americans to conquer a very large part of North America at the expense of the indigenous population and the ability to exploit to an unprecedented level the resources of the land. The benefits are obvious: relatively high living standard for most (but not all) citizens, a relatively modern infrastructure, and an almost endless supply of food. The disadvantages are less evident, but they include: a) a growing chasm between the very rich and the so-called middle and working classes, b) an enormous chasm between the so-called conservatives and the so-called liberals that seems to have destroy rational political discourse, c) a general unwillingness to recognise the values of other cultures. Despite the claims of the religious right, materialism is alive and well in the USA; keeping up with the neighbors is the national pasttime. Is it any wonder that some Americans might think that other nations are jealous of them? One could cite the benefits of living in another country (national health insurance, free education, a shorter working day, longer vacations, etc.). But since they do not exist in the USA (to my knowledge), their value to the quality of life is discounted. The solution: sending young Americans abroad for a real education. Any takers? ;)

Any large metropolitan area in the US, and not a few smaller ones, can offer just about every sort of cuisine you can imagine.

If this is a display of the sort of "credibility" we can expect if we impeach our President ( who, btw, hasn't done anything which would justify impeachment ), then I for one want no part of it! Jeeze! You're either blind, have a hidden agenda, or are just about two sandwitches short of a picnic!

One: the food you get in America is bland to say the least. I have lived in Cleveland and in New York, and travelled extensively within the US, and to be frank, the best "foreign" food I ever ate was in Boston, and that was at an Italian restaurant where they made their own pizzas rather than thawed them. If you want Mexican you are stuck with Taco Bell or nothing, and their food is not exactly the best representation of Mexican food I have ever come across. There are amoeba on Saturn who can cook better non-American food than the average American restaurant.

Two: Bush is a megalomaniac with a head full of air and an inclination to get people killed. Oh and he is one hell of a hypocrite. The sooner he is kicked out and replaced with a more liberal, clear headed thinker who values life, not just American but all, the better for the entire world.

I hate the united states as a country not americans (hell I hate more or less every country's government to some degree) but its right up there on my hate list just behind israel[
Israel is in effect America's 51st state, they even speak English with an American accent which is pretty damn tedious.

One: the food you get in America is bland to say the least. I have lived in Cleveland and in New York, and travelled extensively within the US, and to be frank, the best "foreign" food I ever ate was in Boston, and that was at an Italian restaurant where they made their own pizzas rather than thawed them. If you want Mexican you are stuck with Taco Bell or nothing, and their food is not exactly the best representation of Mexican food I have ever come across. There are amoeba on Saturn who can cook better non-American food than the average American restaurant.
Now I know you're blowing smoke out your ass. There are at least ten great Mexican restauarants within a fifteen-minute drive of where I live, most of them run by recent arrivals from Mexico. There are Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Greek, Korean, Italian, Indian and many other ethnic restaurants within this same area, all of them run by recent arrivals from their own nations. And I live in the middle of the North Carolina Piedmont!

I don't know who guided you on your "tour" around the US, but they had their head up their ass when they did it.

There are amoeba on Saturn who can cook better non-American food than the average American restaurant.That would have been hilarious if you hadn't stolen it from Blackadder... :rolleyes:

That would have been hilarious if you hadn't stolen it from Blackadder... :rolleyes:

Blackadder the Fourth, Captain Cook to be exact, said by Edmund of Baldicks cooking. It was merely a useful phrase to illustrate my point.

I am not anti-European. There is just a segement of the European population that I think are arrogant self-rightous punks. Often enough on these boards and others I see muliple people from other countris slandering my own and telling us that we need to do things their way. We do things our way. We do not go about telling Europe that they are a backwards uncultured people. Or if we do it is because we get sick of heraring them say much the same about us. We do things differently here. I like it that way. If I did'nt I would simply move.
The diference is that I think in general most Americans are happy beating to the tune of a different drummer and we like it that way. Honestly I think that America has done more for Europe than Europe has done for America. I don't gloat over it or use it through some reasoning to say you guys need to be like us. But I'mmore that willing to point it out when you guys start looking down your noses at us. I don't like say, socialism, and I'm pretty load about opposing it in my own country. I don't condemn the vast sections of Europe that feel diferently that's their choicce.
Mostly there's a long list of generally nice things that the US has done for Europe and a short one of what Europe has done for us. So I see little ethical highground in the European community telling the US how they should act.

We do things our way. We do not go about telling Europe that they are a backwards uncultured people.

As a European, I can honestly say that I've been told countless times how Europe should change and what is wrong with Europe on this same forum...


The diference is that I think in general most Americans are happy beating to the tune of a different drummer and we like it that way. Honestly I think that America has done more for Europe than Europe has done for America. I don't gloat over it or use it through some reasoning to say you guys need to be like us. But I'mmore that willing to point it out when you guys start looking down your noses at us. I don't like say, socialism, and I'm pretty load about opposing it in my own country. I don't condemn the vast sections of Europe that feel diferently that's their choicce.
Mostly there's a long list of generally nice things that the US has done for Europe and a short one of what Europe has done for us. So I see little ethical highground in the European community telling the US how they should act.

I'm not going into comparing lists, but in my humble opinion, no country on this globe owes another one anything at all.
And you've just proven that my impression stated here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9400882&postcount=114) is unfortunately still correct...

I am not anti-European. There is just a segement of the European population that I think are arrogant self-rightous punks. Often enough on these boards and others I see muliple people from other countris slandering my own and telling us that we need to do things their way. We do things our way. We do not go about telling Europe that they are a backwards uncultured people. Or if we do it is because we get sick of heraring them say much the same about us. We do things differently here. I like it that way. If I did'nt I would simply move.
So is that coming when it becomes obvious that eroding your civil liberties does *nothing* to stop terrorists, whatcha gonna do?

The diference is that I think in general most Americans are happy beating to the tune of a different drummer and we like it that way. Honestly I think that America has done more for Europe than Europe has done for America.

Like showing up two years late for both world wars?

I don't gloat over it or use it through some reasoning to say you guys need to be like us.

I can see why.
But I'mmore that willing to point it out when you guys start looking down your noses at us.
Yes, you're right, we do need to be more like you, we should all ignore the important issues until they bite us in the ass.
For important issues read: two dead space shuttles, more dead Americans from space travel than from any other country. Let's contunue farming out construction of equipment required to keep people alive to the lowest tender. Cos of course that gets you the best job, not just the cheapest.
I don't like say, socialism, and I'm pretty load about opposing it in my own country. I don't condemn the vast sections of Europe that feel diferently that's their choicce.
How magnanimous, we're allowed to be socialist, but voice an opinion against the almighty U.S. Empire and we should be shot?
Mostly there's a long list of generally nice things that the US has done for Europe and a short one of what Europe has done for us.
I'd like to see this long list. Maybe you only think your country has done nice things. Mostly what we remeber in Europe is Theatre Europe where the whole of western Eurpoe was used as a potential battlefield by an uncaring U.S. government as they tried to develop new ways of "winning a nuclear war" (oxymoron if ever I heard one) against the U.S.S.R.

Not that going to war on the same side as the U.S. seems any safer. Do the U.S. press publicise the "blue-on-blue" incidents that meant in both Gulf Wars the UK sustained greater losses from their allies than from their enemy?

In the U.K. we have a lot of experience with terrorists, namely the I.R.A. and where did they get most of their funding from? Oh that's right the United States. Don't you think that's a "favour" we could have done without?

So I see little ethical highground in the European community telling the US how they should act.
Oh of course it's all about the ethical highground, we're in a war of ideology. Ethnically cleansing the world of all non-democratic, non-capitalist regiemes. I'm tired of anti-British sentiment from yanks cos Tony Blair seems to have no backbone and went to war with them. I'm also tired of anti-continental setiment from yanks because other countries in Europe were brave enough to stand up and say, "this is a bad idea."

How's that exit strategy coming? It's gotta be a bit tricky, cos if you stay much longer then the insurgents will find ways to attack the mainland U.S. but if you leave without imposing a stable democracy, you'll have achieved precisely squat apart from giving your arms industry something to do for a while.