NationStates Jolt Archive


Why Britain and Spain, but no further terrorist attacks in the US since 911??

Eutrusca
08-08-2005, 13:29
COMMENTARY: I have been wondering lately why, especially after the bombings in Britain, there have been no further terrorist attacks in the US. This article goes into depth about some of the possible reasons why the US seems to have been lucky since 9/11.


Why suicide attackers haven't hit U.S. again (http://www.military.com/earlybrief/0,,,00.html)


By Rick Hampson, USA TODAY

NEW YORK — After the bombings in London and Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt, the question that rivets America is one that has no sure answer: Why haven't Muslim militants executed another suicide terror attack on the U.S. home front?

If suicide bombers can strike daily in the Middle East and hit the capitals of Europe, why does 9/11 remain a spectacular exception?

There are theories about why the United States still hasn't had a homegrown attack like the ones last month in London. Suicide bombing isn't that easy. The USA isn't that vulnerable. American Muslims aren't that militant. Foreign terrorists aren't focused, not yet, on a domestic strike.

Over the past four years, Jeremiahs as varied as Dick Cheney and Osama bin Laden have said another attack is inevitable. It could come at any time, and it could come from within; homegrown suicide terrorists are notoriously difficult to identify before they strike.

Robert Pape, a University of Chicago political scientist who has studied suicide terrorists, says most are "walk-in volunteers who decide to do it only months beforehand. They're not long-term criminals you can track." He cites the July 7 London bombers: wage earners, family men, cricket fans and, apparently, suicides.

Contrary to popular stereotype, most are not poor, ill-educated, disturbed or disconnected. Suicide terrorists are men and women, young and old, rich and poor, educated and ignorant. If anything, they tend to be relatively well off and, to outward appearances, well adjusted. Mohamed Atta, ringleader in the Sept. 11 attacks, was a college graduate and the son of a lawyer.

"There is no accurate criminal profile for them. Anyone who tells you differently is trying to get on TV," says Mia Bloom, author of Dying to Kill, a study of suicide terror. "And if we had a profile, the terrorists would learn about it and use it against us."

The other explanations — not all reassuring and not all compatible — for why there's been no repeat of Sept. 11 include the following:

•Suicide terror takes a team. Such attacks in the Middle East usually are executed by a group that recruits the bomber, gets the explosives, builds the bomb, surveys the target and gets the bomber there undetected. Sometimes there's even a video crew.

But the USA lacks such a "suicide terrorist infrastructure," says Bloom, a University of Cincinnati political scientist. There's no cottage industry in "suicide belts," as in the West Bank, where such a package of wearable explosives goes for less than $200.

To the contrary, police in the New York City area visit chemical and demolition suppliers to ask about large purchases of explosives by new customers. Home Depot stores automatically tell authorities about any sale of more than 500 pounds of fertilizer, which can be used to make bombs.

•U.S. Muslims want the American dream, not jihad. The United States has assimilated immigrant Muslims more successfully than Western Europe, where there is a higher proportion of poor, alienated Muslims, according to Ahmed Bedier of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. American Muslims seem to have more of a stake in keeping peace.

"No one wants to attack their own people," Bedier says. "Muslims here see themselves as Americans more than Muslims in France see themselves as French."

Last week a council of leading American Muslim scholars issued an edict condemning those who commit terrorism in the name of Islam as "criminals, not 'martyrs.' "


Al-Qaeda attacks since 9/11
Type of attack Location Casualties Date
Car bomb Synagogue in Djerba, Tunisia Killed 21, including 14 Germans and 1 French citizen April 11, 2002
Car bomb Sheraton in Karachi, Pakistan Killed 14 May 8, 2002
Car bomb U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan Killed 12 local residents working for U.S. June 16, 2002
Car bomb Nightclub in Bali, Indonesia Killed 202, including 103 Australians Oct. 12, 2002
Car bomb Hotel near Mombasa, Kenya Killed 13, including 3 Israelis Nov. 28, 2002
Three car bombs Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Killed 34, including 8 Americans May 12, 2003
Car bombs Casablanca, Morocco Killed 31 May 16, 2003
Car bomb Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia Killed 15, including some Western tourists Aug. 5, 2003
Car bomb Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Killed 17 Arabs working with the U.S. Nov. 8, 2003
Two car bombs Synagogues in Istanbul Killed 25 Nov. 15, 2003
Two truck bombs British embassy in Istanbul Killed 31 Britons and Turks Nov. 20, 2003
Two truck bombs Targeted President Pervez Musharraf in Rawalpindi, Pakistan Killed 14 Dec. 25, 2003
Subway and bus bombs London transit system Killed 52 July 7, 2005

Source: List of confirmed attacks from Robert Pape, University of Chicago
Bloom, who has worked with the New Jersey Office of Counter-Terrorism, says the state's Arab and Muslim communities are "hotbeds of dissent. But they're not taking it to the next level. When a rabble-rouser comes to a mosque, he's met with a great deal of resistance. People in that community say (to the authorities), 'Please come get this person.' "

Example: Last August, police charged two Muslims — one the American son of an Egyptian man, the other an illegal immigrant from Pakistan — with conspiring to bomb the Herald Square subway station. The suspects came to the attention of the New York police intelligence unit through tips from Brooklyn's Islamic community.

Bedier says an experience last month left him modestly optimistic about relations between Muslims and non-Muslims.

He stopped his car outside a house in Pinellas Park, Fla., that had a toilet in the front yard and a sign: "Koran flushing, 1 p.m."

Bedier, 31, a native of Egypt, asked the homeowner, Mike Allen, what he was trying to say. Allen invited him inside, where he complained that Muslim Americans were not condemning terrorism. Bedier went to his car, got his laptop, and showed Allen what his own group had done. After a long talk, they parted amicably. "He realized we have the same issue," Bedier says. "We're both against terrorism." Allen told the St. Petersburg Times that he had taken down the display because Bedier was "so nice."

Tom Ridge, the former Homeland Security secretary, points out, however, that it might not take a team: "You don't need too many committed to martyrdom to wreak havoc."

•The U.S. homeland is better protected. America has become a land scoured, probed, patrolled and fenced by a web of informers, computers, guards, spies, tape recorders, detectors, sensors, Jersey barriers, concrete planters and bomb-sniffing dogs. It may have nipped some plots in the bud and deterred others. "We look differently as a country now to the terrorists," Ridge says. "We have created security measures unlike the terrorists have seen before, and we continue to upgrade them."

In New York City, for instance, the police department has increased its counterterrorism squad from a few dozen officers to about a thousand. People who run parking garages, marinas and hunting stores routinely report anything unusual. Arabic, Pashto and Urdu-speakers, working with law enforcement authorities, monitor online chat and chatter on the airwaves.

"I don't want to give a sense of false security," says Pape, author of a new book on suicide terrorism, Dying to Win, "but right now we're doing pretty well."

•Al-Qaeda Central is dead. Since 9/11, the world's most notorious terrorist organization has lost its headquarters and training centers in Afghanistan. Most of its leaders are dead, in prison or on the run. Time and energy once devoted to elaborate terror attacks are spent staying alive and at large.

Al-Qaeda has become less of an organization and more of a movement, Pape says. Sometimes there's coordination among leaders, or among leaders and followers. Sometimes things percolate from the bottom up.

"The old centralized al-Qaeda is gone," agrees Bloom. "It's become more like a franchise operation."

But terrorists don't always need directions from the home office. Last week a screen at a news media briefing at New York City police headquarters bore a list of lessons learned from the London bombings. No. 1: "This Can Happen Here." As Commissioner Ray Kelly put it, "The recipe to make a bomb, unfortunately, is as available on the Internet as a recipe for meat loaf."

•Bin Laden is patiently planning another blockbuster. The man who brought down the World Trade Center likes to bide his time. If this is a struggle of centuries, as bin Laden has argued, what are four years? Eight years elapsed between attacks on the Trade Center. Ridge says that could explain why al-Qaeda hasn't struck again — "they're just not ready."

"That they would attack again soon after 9/11 was our expectation, not their expectation," Bloom adds. "If they wanted to send a guy into Wal-Mart with an AK-47, they could have a long time ago. But usually they wait until they can do something shocking, maybe three or four simultaneous attacks. You need time to do that."

Intelligence gathered after the invasion of Afghanistan stoked the U.S. government's fear of smaller suicide attacks on "soft" domestic targets such as shopping malls. By late 2003, however, information indicated a new focus on one spectacular plot.

The detonation of a radioactive or "dirty" bomb in a suitcase in Times Square would panic the entire metro area. In minutes, the years of seeming immunity would be forgotten.

•Muslim terrorists are focused on U.S. allies in Europe and U.S. troops in Iraq. In 2002-03, Australians and Europeans whose nations had troops in Afghanistan or Iraq became al-Qaeda's most frequent suicide attack targets. This was before the Madrid train bombings last year, and the attacks on the London transit system and the Egyptian resort last month.

Pape, who has charted the hundreds of suicide bombings worldwide since 1980, says al-Qaeda even put its current strategy in writing. In 2003, a Norwegian intelligence agency discovered what appeared to be an al-Qaeda planning document on a radical Islamic Web site. It said direct attacks on America would be insufficient to compel U.S. withdrawal from Iraq and recommended attacks on its European allies to get them to withdraw their forces — thereby increasing the burden on the United States. Specifically mentioned: Britain and Spain.

The other focus of suicide terrorism is Iraq. From a would-be martyr's perspective, what's better than killing a "crusader"?

The Iraq war, Pape argues, inflames al-Qaeda's real dispute with the West — the presence of "infidel" troops in Arabia. It's also an effective way to tie down the United States in an unpopular war — a view bin Laden himself expressed in a videotape released before the 2004 election.

Bin Laden's strategy effectively dovetails with the Bush administration's, which is to take the war on terrorism to the enemy by fighting over there instead of back here. Most suicide bombers in Iraq are not Iraqis, Pape says, suggesting that the war may be sucking up the supply of international suicide bombers.

But Pape and Bloom say that by inflaming Muslim sensibilities, the war will only create more suicide bombers. The war, Bloom says, is "less a flame drawing the moths than a chrysalis in which many more are being created."

•We've been lucky. Ridge speculated last year that the homeland's post-9/11 immunity from terror attack may simply have been luck.

Bloom says there has been luck — certain clues and leads. But she doesn't believe in luck "if it means that if there's another attack, we were just unlucky. If there's another attack, it means we messed up."

Contributing: Mimi Hall and Kevin Johnson in Washington
NERVUN
08-08-2005, 13:36
Personally I think it will come and that it will be another big one. When... now there is a question we would all like to know, along with where of course.
Laerod
08-08-2005, 13:37
I'm a bit scared that they'll try and hit one of the Stadiums in Germany during the World Cup... that might be the only good thing about getting a conservative government. Beckstein might actually manage to prevent something like that... :(
Eutrusca
08-08-2005, 13:39
I'm a bit scared that they'll try and hit one of the Stadiums in Germany during the World Cup... that might be the only good thing about getting a conservative government. Beckstein might actually manage to prevent something like that... :(
That would be their style, to do something like that. I hope you guys have your security gearing up for that.
Laerod
08-08-2005, 13:41
That would be their style, to do something like that. I hope you guys have your security gearing up for that.Security is tighter, but if fans can manage to smuggle fireworks into a stadium, who knows what else can make it in. I've seen a video after the London attacks where the terrorists were demonstrating their arsenal of explosives to "Conquest of Paradise". One of them was a soccerball...
Wurzelmania
08-08-2005, 13:42
Odds are they are waiting for a big one. They'll try to strip away weak allies and increase dangerous tensions in firm allies then make an overwhelming strike. Assuming of course that they don't feel they can succeed in their aims with smaller attacks.
77Seven77
08-08-2005, 13:43
"Why Britain and Spain, but no further terrorist attacks in the US since 911??"

Your joking right? How long do you think it took the FBI/US Goverment to come up with that plan eh? I'd give it anouther couple of years ;)

Seriously as someone said B4 - it will happen and it will be big and not nice at all! :(
Eutrusca
08-08-2005, 13:44
Security is tighter, but if fans can manage to smuggle fireworks into a stadium, who knows what else can make it in. I've seen a video after the London attacks where the terrorists were demonstrating their arsenal of explosives to "Conquest of Paradise". One of them was a soccerball...
Yeah. I heard about that. :(
Carnivorous Lickers
08-08-2005, 13:51
I have a sinking feeling there is something in the works for US soil on the scale of another 9/11.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Eutrusca
08-08-2005, 13:55
I have a sinking feeling there is something in the works for US soil on the scale of another 9/11.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
I sincerely hope you're wrong too! It would be just like Al Quida to allow lots of time to pass to lull us into a false sense of security, then hit us with something like a "dirty bomb" or simultaneous attacks in several different cities. :headbang:
Ifreann
08-08-2005, 14:02
I have a sinking feeling there is something in the works for US soil on the scale of another 9/11.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.


There almost definately is.but it'll most likely come when it's least expected,less security and preparedness.either that or during a huge world event thet'll be highly televised.I'm just happy Ireland isn't that involved in all this.
Dowap
08-08-2005, 14:06
It because of the high muslim population in Spain and Britain, and you need more fund to attack with terrorists born outside of the target nation. That and the patiotic education america gives it children.
Werteswandel
08-08-2005, 14:07
Bedier says an experience last month left him modestly optimistic about relations between Muslims and non-Muslims.

He stopped his car outside a house in Pinellas Park, Fla., that had a toilet in the front yard and a sign: "Koran flushing, 1 p.m."

Bedier, 31, a native of Egypt, asked the homeowner, Mike Allen, what he was trying to say. Allen invited him inside, where he complained that Muslim Americans were not condemning terrorism. Bedier went to his car, got his laptop, and showed Allen what his own group had done. After a long talk, they parted amicably. "He realized we have the same issue," Bedier says. "We're both against terrorism." Allen told the St. Petersburg Times that he had taken down the display because Bedier was "so nice."
Let's not overlook this. It's amazing how much good can be done with a little bit of discussion, a little bit of education, a little bit of understanding.

I sincerely hope that the US doesn't get hit again, but I fear my hopes will be dashed. Perhaps, as with London, mitigation is the best we can hope.

It because of the high muslim population in Spain and Britain, and you need more fund to attack with terrorists born outside of the target nation. That and the patiotic education america gives it children.
Sorry, I don't buy that.
Willamena
08-08-2005, 14:08
Perhaps because the events are not related?
Hemingsoft
08-08-2005, 14:11
I'm thinking that everyone on the face of this planet is afraid of GWB, thus any more attacks on the US could end up in the entire middle east being nuked below sea level. As much as Osama is this fearless dude, he doesn't want to die, nor watch all his people die. Hey he might not be such a bad guy after all :confused:
Werteswandel
08-08-2005, 14:16
I'm thinking that everyone on the face of this planet is afraid of GWB, thus any more attacks on the US could end up in the entire middle east being nuked below sea level. As much as Osama is this fearless dude, he doesn't want to die, nor watch all his people die. Hey he might not be such a bad guy after all :confused:
Nah. Much as I dislike Bush, Bin Laden is on a whole different level of badness. Thing is, how much influence does he have now? What exactly is Al Qaeda?
New Hawii
08-08-2005, 14:18
I read that there are plans to leave America for a while, targetting it's allies in order to stop international support of the US, whilst planning something bigger for the them.
The Eastern-Coalition
08-08-2005, 14:24
What scares you more? Stupid terrorists who randomly blow stuff up just because they hate it? Or smart terrorists, who have a plan and a strategy to follow?

I hope the former scares you more, because we're dealing with the latter. You don't have to directly attack your enemy all the time to win a war. I wish certain people would realise that, because until they do terrorists are consistently going to have an advantage.
Ifreann
08-08-2005, 14:30
I read that there are plans to leave America for a while, targetting it's allies in order to stop international support of the US, whilst planning something bigger for the them.

That does make sense,wait until everyone is shouting at America to surrender then launch a massive attack against them.
Carnivorous Lickers
08-08-2005, 14:31
I sincerely hope you're wrong too! It would be just like Al Quida to allow lots of time to pass to lull us into a false sense of security, then hit us with something like a "dirty bomb" or simultaneous attacks in several different cities. :headbang:


I think they are well aware that Amercia can become complacent pretty quickly.

If anything, right now, we should be aggressively and tirelessy pursuing terrorists and those that support/harbor them, no matter where they are. As long as they exist, they should always be fleeing, hiding and on the defensive. And people that consider supporting them in any way should always be in fear as well.
Laitaine
08-08-2005, 14:36
Yeah, the big one will probably come again. Americans need to realize this, and we can't let our guard down. Americans have the tendecy to think that their government is protecting them, and then feel that they don't need to do anything. We need to keep our guard up. As for attacks on other parts of the world? They will probably continue to happen. I think we need to stop blaming Muslims or some other ethnic group and realize that some high-school-drop-out could hate America so much to do the same thing. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad, but if he joined up with other people he (or she) might be able to accomplish it.
Collumland
08-08-2005, 14:58
Until the we(the US) learn how to work our foreign policy for something other than just the benefit of us, we will be in this problem, as well as any other country that chooses to join us(Spain, Britain.....sorry guys).

Until we decide to stop mocking through the occupation of their Holy Lands, they will attack us till the death. Another attack on US soil? It's inevitable.

I don't know about Germany though. Haven't they been firmly against the Iraqi war since it's inception?
Froudland
08-08-2005, 15:01
I tend to agree that another big attack on America is brewing.

I find it ironic that in Bush's "War on Terror" speeches, he asserts that the terrorists hate US freedoms and democracy, and then he tackles the problem by systematically removing your freedoms and well, you never really had democracy.

It's interesting to hear how integrated American Muslims are in the US though, I'm knid of envious of that. Here we have done such a spectacular job of alienating immigrant cultures, we make immigrants live packed together in crappy areas of cities (that's when we grudgingly let them out of detention camps), we make them work shitty jobs and constantly deny them any involvement in the political system. We have politicians making speeches about what a bad thing multi-culturalism is and girls getting suspended from school for wearing the hijab. Not to mention the police growing fond of stopping and searching "at random" significantly more non-caucasions. We've totally got it wrong in Britain, it's appalling.

But I have to applaud the media and the government since the London bombings, they have been very responsible in emphasising how the acts were committed by extremists and how some Muslims were killed too etc. It's an improvement on after 9/11.
NovaCarpeDiem
08-08-2005, 15:02
I have a sinking feeling there is something in the works for US soil on the scale of another 9/11.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.I share your feeling. I also hope you're wrong. Although for a different reason -- I have a bet ;)

(Just kidding....)

~Envoy of the Nova~
Cheese Burrito
08-08-2005, 15:06
Until the we(the US) learn how to work our foreign policy for something other than just the benefit of us, we will be in this problem, as well as any other country that chooses to join us(Spain, Britain.....sorry guys).

Until we decide to stop mocking through the occupation of their Holy Lands, they will attack us till the death. Another attack on US soil? It's inevitable.

I don't know about Germany though. Haven't they been firmly against the Iraqi war since it's inception?

Terrorism has been going on long before the US was in any "Holy Land".
NovaCarpeDiem
08-08-2005, 15:07
Nah. Much as I dislike Bush, Bin Laden is on a whole different level of badness. Thing is, how much influence does he have now? What exactly is Al Qaeda?Al Qaeda is a loose disconnected network floating around somewhere out there. Its followers may not share a common leader or a sense of unity. They are not as large and menacing as we Americans seem to think, but more subtle than they seem. And yes, I did just call them “subtle”. They will use the age-old tactic of drawing the enemy into their own territory, then striking at the enemy’s. They’ll create a diversion somewhere out in Pakistan or Afghanistan, causing America to deploy much of its remaining defense. Then, guess where the attack will come from!

I hope the FBI is reading this so they will know what their enemy is planning.

~Envoy of the Nova~
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:08
Until the we(the US) learn how to work our foreign policy for something other than just the benefit of us, we will be in this problem, as well as any other country that chooses to join us(Spain, Britain.....sorry guys).

Until we decide to stop mocking through the occupation of their Holy Lands, they will attack us till the death. Another attack on US soil? It's inevitable.

I don't know about Germany though. Haven't they been firmly against the Iraqi war since it's inception?Like I said before, there's been a video of a soccer bomb. If they're not going to try and hit the World Cup, they most certainly want us to think they will. Just because Germany hasn't been involved in Iraq doesn't mean we're safe. We're still involved in Afghanistan and that's where Osama did his first Jihad.
ChuChulainn
08-08-2005, 15:10
Like I said before, there's been a video of a soccer bomb. If they're not going to try and hit the World Cup, they most certainly want us to think they will. Just because Germany hasn't been involved in Iraq doesn't mean we're safe. We're still involved in Afghanistan and that's where Osama did his first Jihad.

Are you saying you think they would try to use the ball in one of the games i.e. have it introduced into play
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:12
Are you saying you think they would try to use the ball in one of the games i.e. have it introduced into playNah. The explosive ball is a message. It's more symbolic than showing what they really will do. Remember, terrorism is about spreading fear and symbolic objects are more useful than realistic ones sometimes.
Von Witzleben
08-08-2005, 15:14
It's interesting to hear how integrated American Muslims are in the US though
Yeah.......kinda like Mohammed Atta and his merry men.

I'm knid of envious of that. Here we have done such a spectacular job of alienating immigrant cultures, we make immigrants live packed together in crappy areas of cities (that's when we grudgingly let them out of detention camps), we make them work shitty jobs and constantly deny them any involvement in the political system. We have politicians making speeches about what a bad thing multi-culturalism is and girls getting suspended from school for wearing the hijab. Not to mention the police growing fond of stopping and searching "at random" significantly more non-caucasions. We've totally got it wrong in Britain, it's appalling.

Yeah. It's all your fault. You force them to leave school without graduating. So you can force them to work shitty jobs. You don't integrate yourself enough into their culture. But theres hope. I heard that some British basic schools have banned the wolf and the 3 little pigglets from their classes. Cause pigs are unclean animals and the little muzzies could be offended by a story where pigs are portraid as something else.
Anyway, it's all your fault. They are the victims.
NovaCarpeDiem
08-08-2005, 15:16
Nah. The explosive ball is a message. It's more symbolic than showing what they really will do. Remember, terrorism is about spreading fear and symbolic objects are more useful than realistic ones sometimes.Yes, soccer ball as bomb would be a very strange plot indeed.

“And it’s into play! #18 has the ball and is heading straight for the other team’s goal! He secures it! He kicks it!”
*A loud BOOM is heard*
“The ball has exploded and #2 is demanding the red flag because it blew up his entire team.”

~Envoy of the Nova~
Wurzelmania
08-08-2005, 15:17
I don't know about Germany though. Haven't they been firmly against the Iraqi war since it's inception?

Do you recall what happened at the Munich olympics? A bunch of dead Israelis.On the other hand Germany now has GS9 which is going to deter some terrorists.
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:18
Do you recall what happened at the Munich olympics? A bunch of dead Israelis.On the other hand Germany now has GS9 which is going to deter some terrorists.GSG-9, not GS9. I think the KSK is more of a deterrent. They've been hunting terrorists in Afghanistan for quite some time now.
Von Witzleben
08-08-2005, 15:21
GSG-9, not GS9. I think the KSK is more of a deterrent. They've been hunting terrorists in Afghanistan for quite some time now.
But it's not the KSK's job to do so in Germany. Thats what the GSG-9 is for.
NovaCarpeDiem
08-08-2005, 15:22
GSG-9, not GS9. I think the KSK is more of a deterrent. They've been hunting terrorists in Afghanistan for quite some time now.Oh, so something fighting in Afghanistan will do the best job of protecting Germany? That’s like saying that the U.S. forces in Japan will be the best at protecting their homeland. They won’t. The U.S. forces in the United States, on the other hand…. ;)

~Envoy of the Nova~
Von Witzleben
08-08-2005, 15:24
Oh, so something designed for Afghanistan will do the best job of protecting Germany?
The KSK wasn't designed for Afghanistan.
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:25
But it's not the KSK's job to do so in Germany. Thats what the GSG-9 is for.I know that. I just felt like adding that they were the ones that have been fighting in Afghanistan.
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:26
The KSK wasn't designed for Afghanistan.
Exactly. The KSK is the GSG-9 of the Bundeswehr, because the GSG-9 requires explicit permission of the local authorities for its activities.
NovaCarpeDiem
08-08-2005, 15:27
The KSK wasn't designed for Afghanistan. My mistake. "Something fighting in Afghanistan..."
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:29
My mistake. "Something fighting in Afghanistan..."Considering that's were the terrorist training camps really were, that isn't such a bad idea.
Von Witzleben
08-08-2005, 15:29
Exactly. The KSK is the GSG-9 of the Bundeswehr, because the GSG-9 requires explicit permission of the local authorities for its activities.
Actually the KSK is just a special forces unit like any other. While the GSG-9 operatives are police officers. I wonder if they are going to change their name now too. And as far as I know the GSG-9 doesn't operate outside of Germany anymore.
NovaCarpeDiem
08-08-2005, 15:32
Considering that's were the terrorist training camps really were, that isn't such a bad idea.I never said it was. :rolleyes:

~Envoy of the Nova~
Tarakaze
08-08-2005, 15:35
Perhaps because the events are not related?

Agreed. I'm personally of the opinion that the 7th of July attack on the tubes was to disrupt the G8 conference - did you see all those protesters on TV?
Laerod
08-08-2005, 15:37
Actually the KSK is just a special forces unit like any other. While the GSG-9 operatives are police officers. I wonder if they are going to change their name now too. And as far as I know the GSG-9 doesn't operate outside of Germany anymore.Um... actually, the reason the KSK was founded was because the GSG-9 is a police force and not part of the military and Germany didn't want to be dependent on allies for such a unit to intervene quickly. This was especially the case in the Congo, when the French and Belgians were the ones that rescued German civilians.
Von Witzleben
08-08-2005, 15:43
Um... actually, the reason the KSK was founded was because the GSG-9 is a police force and not part of the military and Germany didn't want to be dependent on allies for such a unit to intervene quickly. This was especially the case in the Congo, when the French and Belgians were the ones that rescued German civilians.
Ja. So? I just meant that the GSG-9 is a police force with all restrictions that come along. While the KSK is the armies special forces unit.
Eutrusca
08-08-2005, 15:52
Until the we(the US) learn how to work our foreign policy for something other than just the benefit of us, we will be in this problem, as well as any other country that chooses to join us(Spain, Britain.....sorry guys).

Until we decide to stop mocking through the occupation of their Holy Lands, they will attack us till the death. Another attack on US soil? It's inevitable.
Unadulterated politically correct bullshit! This sort of crap only gives encouragement to the terrorists; they figure that any nation stupid enough to believe this horseshit is stupid enough to open the door to terrorists and say, "Oh, you're a protected minority, come on it!" Jesus. I can't friggin' believe how totally gullible and nieve some people can be.
The Bay of Biscay
08-08-2005, 16:04
Unadulterated politically correct bullshit! This sort of crap only gives encouragement to the terrorists; they figure that any nation stupid enough to believe this horseshit is stupid enough to open the door to terrorists and say, "Oh, you're a protected minority, come on it!" Jesus. I can't friggin' believe how totally gullible and nieve some people can be.
Amen my brother. Can I give you a hug?
Jah Bootie
08-08-2005, 16:31
I think it's because Bush is such a tough guy and talks about "bringing it on" and whatnot. They are terrified!
Letila
08-08-2005, 17:44
I've heard this theory that the US itself was involved in the 9-11 attack.
Ianarabia
08-08-2005, 17:49
Unadulterated politically correct bullshit! This sort of crap only gives encouragement to the terrorists; they figure that any nation stupid enough to believe this horseshit is stupid enough to open the door to terrorists and say, "Oh, you're a protected minority, come on it!" Jesus. I can't friggin' believe how totally gullible and nieve some people can be.

Oh Eutrusca you make yourself seem so educated time and again.

If the statement was wrong then why has Germany not been attacked, or Frane or any of the countries that opposed the war. That list in your first post was a list that al qaeda said would be the countries that would be attacked for helping the US...shocker they have.

We know why they attacked us and the thinking world knows the real reason why they have been attacking the US of A. Unfortuantly your mentality seems to be "they attack us, it's there fault, we must attack them ugg...where is my club"

Sorry the US I'm sure has been very lucky and of course some security measures have of course meant the end to some civil liberties like the patriot act. But hey that's what you've got guns for to stop any attack on your civil liberties. :rolleyes:
Warrigal
08-08-2005, 18:32
You're missing the obvious answer: Bush's neo-con administration only needed one major terrorist attack on US soil to facilitate their grab for totalitarian power. ;)
Achtung 45
08-08-2005, 18:33
You're missing the obvious answer: Bush's neo-con administration only needed one major terrorist attack on US soil to facilitate their grab for totalitarian power. ;)
That's why I find it particularly interesting as to how well 9/11 worked out to their advantage.
Aldranin
08-08-2005, 18:41
The terrorists don't want more countries pissed off at them. If they attacked again, Bush would inevitably butcher them, then turn around and butcher a neighboring country with inhabitants that looked like them - just in case. Which is totally cool with me. Thus they'd have both Americans pissed at them for the initial attack AND the neighboring country pissed at them for dragging them into the mess.

Just wait, as soon as we get some pussy that thinks too hard in office, we'll start getting attacked again. As long as we have borderline-crazy, massively vengeful people in office that will kick major ass in the event that we are attacked, the terrorists won't think it's worth it to piss us off again.
Gymoor II The Return
08-08-2005, 19:04
The terrorists don't want more countries pissed off at them. If they attacked again, Bush would inevitably butcher them, -snip-

With what army?

Nice original post, by the way Eutrusca. It makes points that everyone can Identify with. Instread of saying something like "America hasn't been attacked because of the steadfastness of George W," it brings up the fact that there are many factors that involve strategy on both sides. Osama/Al qaeda/The terrorist "franchises" are very likely biding their time. It also makes the point that Osama and Bush likely are working under the same idea of "fighting them there rather than here."

In a very real way, Al Qaeda or any other "franchises" have no need to attack us in the US. Having the US come to them in the Middle East is more costly to the US in both money and regional relations. Why mess with a strategy that is working?

So yes, there are lots of factors, many of which have nothing to do with American policy at all. Others have everything to do with it. The problem is, and people on my side of the political equation are guilty of it too, the tendency to cherry pick. To find the evidence that appeals to one the most and turn a blind eye to all else.

This is why I think the political climate in America is so horrible right now. Only one set of ideas is being acted on, and that will lead to inevitable problems.
Sunsilver
08-08-2005, 19:31
Good Post Gymoor.....

Imagine what it would be like if our land mass so nicely protected by 2 huge oceans was located somehow smack in the middle of Europe? I thank my lucky stars we got this strip of dirt when dealing with this situation.


But....


It doesnt get us out of the water completely in my opinion we will be hit again in a big way or it will be GB... an easier target considering geography. Thoose idiots who say "LOOK we havent been attacked since 9/11 whopeeee we got em on the run" should consider we were attacked on our soil before 9/11 so when it happens again it will be that big of a suprise.

Regardless whether anyone thinks were prepared now doesnt change the fact they get free kills in Iraq so whats the hurry? How about just making America pay out the ass in Iraq for the next 40 years?
Swimmingpool
08-08-2005, 19:57
Contrary to popular stereotype, most are not poor, ill-educated, disturbed or disconnected.
...
The United States has assimilated immigrant Muslims more successfully than Western Europe, where there is a higher proportion of poor, alienated Muslims,
That article was excellent. But can you explain this apparent contradiction?
Ianarabia
08-08-2005, 20:05
That article was excellent. But can you explain this apparent contradiction?

Don't expect any close shaves with anyone from Mensa.This is yet another grand standing thread, to support a political view point.
Gymoor II The Return
08-08-2005, 20:07
Don't expect any close shaves with anyone from Mensa.This is yet another grand standing thread, to support a political view point.

That's a little knee-jerk. The article presented was actually quite thoughtful and wasn't monochromatically "Rah Rah America," either. This is from someone who usually disagrees strongly with Eutrusca.
Magnificent Germania
08-08-2005, 20:09
If the statement was wrong then why has Germany not been attacked, or Frane or any of the countries that opposed the war. That list in your first post was a list that al qaeda said would be the countries that would be attacked for helping the US...shocker they have.

Islamic fanatics have tried to bomb both Germany and France. And there has been a lot of plans that have been stopped.
Ianarabia
08-08-2005, 20:16
That's a little knee-jerk. The article presented was actually quite thoughtful and wasn't monochromatically "Rah Rah America," either. This is from someone who usually disagrees strongly with Eutrusca.

Really I admit I have not been around here long, but even a considered article is just waiting to be used for some sort of political view point...as you certainly not monocrhromtically (still not convinced that's a word ;) ) American but as far as I'm concern every thread by Eutrusca is on it's way to some sort of right wing rah rah rah rant. I hpe I'm wrong but hmmm lets give it just a little more time.
Sick Dreams
08-08-2005, 20:24
Your joking right? How long do you think it took the FBI/US Goverment to come up with that plan eh? I'd give it anouther couple of years ;)
(
PLEASE tell me your joking!?
Gymoor II The Return
08-08-2005, 20:34
Really I admit I have not been around here long, but even a considered article is just waiting to be used for some sort of political view point...as you certainly not monocrhromtically (still not convinced that's a word ;) ) American but as far as I'm concern every thread by Eutrusca is on it's way to some sort of right wing rah rah rah rant. I hpe I'm wrong but hmmm lets give it just a little more time.

But that's the very problem many on the right seem to have: Dismissing evidence, no matter how compelling, just because of the source. Granted, I'll usually dismiss something if it strikes me as unabashedly one-sided in the first paragraph, but I see that as more not wasting my time. On the other hand, I've been forced to swallow bile and agree with something O'Reilly has said (though I can't remember what it was at the moment :D )

Yeah, this will evolve into inevitable flame-bait as the many tribes of trolls descend from their caves. It's not as if the original artical was your usual Whittier-type post though.
Americai
09-08-2005, 20:17
I've heard this theory that the US itself was involved in the 9-11 attack.
It wasn't involved likely. Its just the US has cultured terrorism for a long time due to its ties with Mossad and the way it hunted members of the Neo-patriot movement.

That theory is out there, but the grain of truth is that the US government uses scare tactics to erode Constitutional freedoms. The biggest being the patriot act.
Accumulatia
09-08-2005, 20:47
Al-Qaeda has become less of an organization and more of a movement,.........

10 years ago they said "Al-Qaeda has become less of a movement and more of an organisation", and as movement remains in any form, the potential for attacks will remain aswell.

Hence why the next phaze to the "War on Terror" is to seek out the "root causes" of terrorism.
Accumulatia
09-08-2005, 21:06
That theory is out there, but the grain of truth is that the US government uses scare tactics to erode Constitutional freedoms. The biggest being the patriot act.


There is also the fact that Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld are both Neo-cons, with links to Henry Kissinger.
The similarities in strategy to Viet Nam are in fact quite apparent. Both the Viet Cong and the forces in question in Iraq and Afghanistan were intially supplied arms by the U.S.
What brought the U.S into the Viet Nam War (although War was never declared) was the danger that the forces they earlier supplied could actually take power. This act of freedom would send out the worng kind of messages to surrounding nations and must therefore be stopped.

Then in similar circumstances in that Iraq had previously being supplied with arms by the U.S. to maintain a balance with neighbouring Iran. But then when it looks like these arms have come to an end, and Hans Blix is a month or so from proving it, this would of been the perfect sign for any militant groups of Iraq to take power from the militarily decrepit Hussien.

Beter to enduce a regime change yourself and have some say, than to let loose which ever faction would be strong enough to take power for themselves. Possibly factions from Saudi Arabia funding these regimes.

This is sensical behaviour from the U.S. if you ask me, only it doen't exactly uphold the "freedom" slant George W. Bush gave the crusade.