NationStates Jolt Archive

The idea just amuses me. Don't think it will happen. No one has been convicted of treason for 100 years or so. And my favourite national newspaper has faced charges of treason on several ocassions (all of which were dropped).

I would hope it does happen.

... No one has been convicted of treason for 100 years or so.
Actually, William Joyce was convicted of treason in 1945.

And my favourite national newspaper has faced charges of treason on several ocassions (all of which were dropped).
I'm a bit curious... what newspaper are you talking about?

What are those charges based on?

What are those charges based on?
Here's an article from the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4130454.stm

If we are to believe Wikipedia, presently high treason in the UK 'comprises only conspiring to kill or cause bodily harm to the Sovereign; conspiring to kill the Sovereign's wife or eldest son; violating the Sovereign's wife, or the Sovereign's eldest unmarried daughter, or the Sovereign's eldest son's wife; levying war against the Sovereign in the United Kingdom; adhering to the Sovereign's enemies, giving them aid and comfort, anywhere; murdering the King's Chancellor, Treasurer (an office long vacant) or Justices; and attempting to hinder the succession under the Act of Settlement and the Acts of Union.'

Actually, William Joyce was convicted of treason in 1945.


I'm a bit curious... what newspaper are you talking about?Oh... I know something has happened with relation to treason for a long time, like execution. Nope, just found out that he was executed. Well, even 50 years is still a long time c_c.

The newspaper is the Guardian. It faced treason charges for printing an article for a referrundum on the aboltion of the monarchy. That case actually went to law lords ratehr than getting dropped. That's the only case I can find. Maybe it's the only one, and I'm just getting different articles about it confused.

the atricle - http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0,2763,408484,00.html
end of court case - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,985915,00.html

edit: charges were brought under the Treason Felony Act 1848.

That's inticement to violence at the most... I don't really see any ground for charges of treason whatsoever.

If those who tried to bomb London (or the people behind the bombings) are British citizens (which most of them are) they should be charged with treason.

That's inticement to violence at the most... I don't really see any ground for charges of treason whatsoever.
We have to know the details of their cases.

If those who tried to bomb London (or the people behind the bombings) are British citizens (which most of them are) they should be charged with treason.
It can fall within definition of 'levying war against the Sovereign in the United Kingdom', so it is possible.

From the definition posted, all they'd have to do, is profess their loyalty to any of the enemies of the Crown, Al-Queda, Osama, Al-Zawahari, and they're done.

From the definition posted, all they'd have to do, is profess their loyalty to any of the enemies of the Crown, Al-Queda, Osama, Al-Zawahari, and they're done.

Well, enemies of the Crown is not very specific, is it? I mean, in way you could use the term to describe anybody in the republican movement...

I think loyalty to an enemy of the Crown only counts if it is too a nation that Britain is at war with (or considers an enemy). Rebels and criminals apparently don't count. They're still a crime, but not high treason.

And I think the Islamic clerics are more likely to be tried for incitement to murder.

Don't they have any sort of "planning terrorist acts" category to charge suspects under in the UK?

Don't they have any sort of "planning terrorist acts" category to charge suspects under in the UK?

Yeah but it doesn't count people like Abu Hamza who simply encourage it.

My answer to this is, not on my watch. If this counts as treason then what next? I stand against the Iraq war, does this mean I am encouraging the insurgents there? If so, I'm in for life. (not hanging, 1998 amendment to the Treason Act abolished the Death penalty).

Thats what they are going to do straight away when Parliament resumes in September, everyone in there supports it now.

I think anyone who isn't English, or atleast Brittish (by several generations I might add) should be sent to a temporary holding place, alarmingly similar to Prison. Then we should take a month or so to observe every single one, analyse everything about them and their past. If they pass 100% let them in, but tag them and give them a curfew. If you have the smallest blip on your record, send you back to wherever it is you came from regardless of persecution or whatever. And don't let any more imigrants or refugee's in at all either, thats just stupid.

Interesting thread. I dont know if i can really comment, not being from the UK but much of Irish law has a basis in older Uk laws..so maybe i might through in my tuppence worth. The Cleric issue would not come under the definition of treason as, despite Bushs' retoric, the UK is not at war with terrorists. Therefore surely any prosecutions would come under the Anti-Terrorism laws (assisting, harboring etc) and prohibition against incitement to hatrid laws.

Certainly would be the case here(Ireland), good topic for debate though.

Thats what they are going to do straight away when Parliament resumes in September, everyone in there supports it now.

I think anyone who isn't English, or atleast Brittish (by several generations I might add) should be sent to a temporary holding place, alarmingly similar to Prison. Then we should take a month or so to observe every single one, analyse everything about them and their past. If they pass 100% let them in, but tag them and give them a curfew. If you have the smallest blip on your record, send you back to wherever it is you came from regardless of persecution or whatever. And don't let any more imigrants or refugee's in at all either, thats just stupid.

And while we're at it, shoot the jews.

The idea just amuses me. Don't think it will happen. No one has been convicted of treason for 100 years or so. And my favourite national newspaper has faced charges of treason on several ocassions (all of which were dropped).

Your favourite national newspaper?

Whats that then? The Sun? :PPPPP

But yeah, hang em high. :PPPP

Thats what they are going to do straight away when Parliament resumes in September, everyone in there supports it now.

I think anyone who isn't English, or atleast Brittish (by several generations I might add) should be sent to a temporary holding place, alarmingly similar to Prison. Then we should take a month or so to observe every single one, analyse everything about them and their past. If they pass 100% let them in, but tag them and give them a curfew. If you have the smallest blip on your record, send you back to wherever it is you came from regardless of persecution or whatever. And don't let any more imigrants or refugee's in at all either, thats just stupid.

Here Here! Could not have put it better myself!

And while we're at it, shoot the jews.


Well, if the Jews become a threat I wouldn't hesitate to ask for them to be locked up and checked thoroughly. But shooting would be wrong, just deportation for anyone not 100% safe.

I think loyalty to an enemy of the Crown only counts if it is too a nation that Britain is at war with (or considers an enemy). Rebels and criminals apparently don't count. They're still a crime, but not high treason.

...
The British law on treason does not have such requirements.

As to foreign pirates or robbers, who may happen to invade our coasts, without any open hostilities between their nation and our own, and without any commission from any prince or state at enmity with the crown of Great Britain, the giving the many assistance is also clearly treason; either in the light of adhering to the public enemies of the king and kingdom, or else in that of levying war against his majesty. And, most indisputably, the same acts of adherence or aid, which (when applied to foreign enemies) will constitute treason under this branch of the statute, will (when afforded to our own fellow-subjects in actual rebellion at home) amount to high treason under the description of levying war against the king.

It won't happen. The government has never had the guts to do anything that would really help solve the problems in this country. And even if they did, the criminals would just whine and hide behind European human rights law.

"The government has never had the guts to do anything that would really help solve the problems in this country."

I'm sure you meant THIS government ......

I'm sure you meant THIS government ......
To be honest I can't see any goverment, Labour or Conservative ever properly solving these problems. Whatever party governs, immigration will still be allowed and Europe will still have them by the balls. I can't really see any point in voting when it just gets these spineless cretins in.

To be honest I can't see any goverment, Labour or Conservative ever properly solving these problems. Whatever party governs, immigration will still be allowed and Europe will still have them by the balls. I can't really see any point in voting when it just gets these spineless cretins in.

So run yourself buddy. Maybe you can inspire a revival of spines in politics. 1000 pounds is all you need and if you really have the public mood you won't lose that either.

I think that they should be charged with treason. They claim to be British Citizens, yet they want to blow themselves up and de-stabilise our society. Do 'em for treason, says I!

Thats what they are going to do straight away when Parliament resumes in September, everyone in there supports it now.

I think anyone who isn't English, or atleast Brittish (by several generations I might add) should be sent to a temporary holding place, alarmingly similar to Prison. Then we should take a month or so to observe every single one, analyse everything about them and their past. If they pass 100% let them in, but tag them and give them a curfew. If you have the smallest blip on your record, send you back to wherever it is you came from regardless of persecution or whatever. And don't let any more imigrants or refugee's in at all either, thats just stupid.

So what if you find out that one of your parents wasn't British, (it could happen, one of your grandparents might have been adopted or something), and you where sent to this camp. Are you saying that you've never downloaded an MP3, stolen, used any sort of aggression etc?

I'm not even going to go into how stupid and unworkable an idea that is.

"High treason constituted a serious threat to the stability or continuity of the state. It included attempts to kill the king, the queen, or the heir apparent or to restrain their liberty; to counterfeit coinage or the royal seal; and to wage war against the kingdom."

I'd consider the recent terrorist acts and the actions of those who support them as an act of war against the kingdom.

Well, if the Jews become a threat I wouldn't hesitate to ask for them to be locked up and checked thoroughly. But shooting would be wrong, just deportation for anyone not 100% safe.

Oh dear. Someone doesn't have a sense of sarcasm. :rolleyes:

Oh dear. Someone doesn't have a sense of sarcasm. :rolleyes:

Thank goodness! Someone realised it. :fluffle:

"High treason constituted a serious threat to the stability or continuity of the state. It included attempts to kill the king, the queen, or the heir apparent or to restrain their liberty; to counterfeit coinage or the royal seal; and to wage war against the kingdom."

I'd consider the recent terrorist acts and the actions of those who support them as an act of war against the kingdom.

Especially since they tried to claim POW status, thereby believing that they are at war/trying to start one.

There are too many agents of terrorism in Britain, and it's high time that justice is served to them.

Oh dear. Someone doesn't have a sense of sarcasm. :rolleyes:


I find it somewhat difficult to pick up on sarcasm when it is typed...Oh well.

So what if you find out that one of your parents wasn't British, (it could happen, one of your grandparents might have been adopted or something), and you where sent to this camp.

As much as I have already researched my family tree extensively and know that my family is English for as far back as I can trace, I must consider the hypothetical situation that one is not. In which case, if my idea was in action I would happily co-operate with the police or whoever in order to;
a) Clear my name,
b) & keep this little old island of ours safe.

Are you saying that you've never downloaded an MP3, stolen, used any sort of aggression etc?

I have certainly never stolen anything at all, and I am concerned at the insinuation that you assume everyone has. With regard to MP3's, no I have not. Atleast, no in the sense of using Kazaa or Limewire or such. I prefer to buy the CD, and only use MP3's when I have either uploaded them from a CD or they are made legally available by the band.<edit> Oh and agression? I've been in shouting matches and arguments if they count, but I try to the best of my ability to never start one, I'm very passive with people insulting me. Also, that is not to say I have never been in a fight, but I have never started a fight, I'm just there to defend myself.</edit>

I'm not even going to go into how stupid and unworkable an idea that is.

Please do, in times like this we need everyones idea's to pool togethor in order to keep safe.


The government has never had the guts to do anything that would really help solve the problems in this country

Up until recently I would have agreed, but they have started to make some positive changes now. Deporting muslim clerics (sp?) and hopefully other prominent muslim figures in the UK.

Pabli

Thats what they are going to do straight away when Parliament resumes in September, everyone in there supports it now.

I think anyone who isn't English, or atleast Brittish (by several generations I might add) should be sent to a temporary holding place, alarmingly similar to Prison. Then we should take a month or so to observe every single one, analyse everything about them and their past. If they pass 100% let them in, but tag them and give them a curfew. If you have the smallest blip on your record, send you back to wherever it is you came from regardless of persecution or whatever. And don't let any more imigrants or refugee's in at all either, thats just stupid.

This is pretty fucking stupid. I'd be straight off to a detention camp and so would a great deal of the population. I suspect the NHS would cease to function, well more so than normally. This is the kind of BNP crap that makes this country so backwards some of the time.

I'm sure someone once told me "your opponant has lost the argument when they need to resort to foul language and name calling"...

I'm quite happy to debate with you when you come back and do so without swearing and throwing insults at me.