NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: We're accustomed to the flatulance coming out of Hollyweird, but now it turns out that the San Joaquin Valley's exploding heifer population ( and no, I do not mean Jessica Simpson and Britteny Spears! ) is generating almost as big of a stench!


A Malodorous Fog (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/opinion/07sun4.html?th&emc=th)

Published: August 7, 2005
Here is an axiom for farmers and consumers: Crowding animals together in large numbers always leads to problems. It turns hog manure, for instance, from a source of fertility into toxic waste. It creates enormous opportunities for disease, which tends to be warded off by inappropriate use of antibiotics. And in central California, it turns dairies, which are environmentally benign on a small scale, into major sources of air pollution - perhaps as bad as automobiles.

One of the smoggiest places in the country is the San Joaquin Valley, where one-fifth of the country's dairy cattle live - some 2.5 million animals and still growing. Local environmentalists and some local legislators argue that cow emissions - which come mostly from the front end of the animal rather than the tailpipe - have gotten out of control. There is a growing call to impose new rules that would improve air quality. The best way to do this isn't completely clear. But few, if any, of the proposed solutions would be palatable to the dairy farmers.

The San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District estimates that at present each cow emits 19.3 pounds of pollutants a year in the form of gases from manure, from regurgitation and from flatulence. Defenders of the dairy farms - a large and powerful California industry - say that number is a wild overestimation. But behind the debate over the emissions measurements and their regulatory implications, there is a simple fact to contend with: the eye-stinging, nose-burning smell of cattle congestion in rural California.

We're accustomed to the flatulance coming out of Hollyweird

You know, I'd actually read this article, but I can't quite seem to get past this partisan hackery.

You know, I'd actually read this article, but I can't quite seem to get past this partisan hackery.
Huh? What "partisan hackery?" Neither the article nor the commentary has anything whatsoever to do with politics. You've weirded out on us. :eek:

You know what I'm talking about.

Uh so what is the point? Do we have to give all the cow's Beano so their gassey emissions don't kill us all?

Or rely on imports.

I mean Argentina lets their cattle graze throughout the countryside and they don't have a problem with this.

I think it might be time to seek some counseling on this whole Caliphobia thing of yours. It really isn't that healthy. I know, I know-you're from the south, you're not accustom to our new-fangled ways. But trust us-the camera does not in fact steal your soul, nor does it project the devil into your daughter.

Also, it would help you to remember that there are 35 million people in the state that is as large as some countries, and Hollywood is not even the biggest city contained within.

Now, I know-for the most part we do not make the homosexuals hide who they are to appease those with quesy senses of thier own sexuality-but really, I know what you've been told but gay isn't contagious. If you don't have a problem with constantly having to fend off women assaulting you as you go down the street then you won't have that problem with the gay population either.

Now, I realise that your fear might come from a degree of envy-we are the fifth largest economy in the world, our weather is temperate and our soil rich. We are a happy group of people and that can get the ire up of those unfortunate enough not to live here, but really-it's not our fault that your ancestors gave up so early on the march west. Just because they where quiters there is no need to heap your fears and insecurities on us.

Whoa, I don't think I would jump to all those conclusions. This state has a lot of problems, and I do not like hollywood celebrities (personally I think they are rich brats). But to make those conclusions based on a cow farting thread is quite a leap..

Our soil rich? What the heck? Well not in my area. And I live in Los Angeles.

You know what I'm talking about.
No, I honestly don't. This is actually one of the least political threads I have ever started on here. :)

Whoa, I don't think I would jump to all those conclusions. This state has a lot of problems, and I do not like hollywood celebrities (personally I think they are rich brats). But to make those conclusions based on a cow farting thread is quite a leap..

Our soil rich? What the heck? Well not in my area. And I live in Los Angeles.
Ah, the shallow end of the pool. I live in Northern California, where things grow at the merest suggestion that they might. You guys kept fuckin' up your water supply, we have a delta.

If the rest is repsonding to my post I might suggest re-reading it and take into consideration that the thread starter has made numerous attacks on California, alternatively wishing it sunk in the ocean or nuked by North Korea. Clearly this demonstrates a phobia.

Ah, the shallow end of the pool. I live in Northern California, where things grow at the merest suggestion that they might. You guys kept fuckin' up your water supply, we have a delta.

If the rest is repsonding to my post I might suggest re-reading it and take into consideration that the thread starter has made numerous attacks on California, alternatively wishing it sunk in the ocean or nuked by North Korea. Clearly this demonstrates a phobia.

Unfortunately for you guys, this area accounts for something like 80% of economic activity in California so we need the water. The San Fernando Valley is also one of the fastest growing in California.

Well that would be quite stupid as this state has a GDP of $1.5 trillion. Accounting for 1/10th of the US Economy.

I would like to get the thread starter's opinion whether he has a phobia or not. I'm not sure and haven't seen enough of his posts. If he does in fact have something against gay people, then yes I'll make issues.

COMMENTARY: We're accustomed to the flatulance coming out of Hollyweird,

Eutrusca - I'm no rocket scientist, but I think he's talking about this..

I would like to get the thread starter's opinion whether he has a phobia or not. I'm not sure and haven't seen enough of his posts. If he does in fact have something against gay people, then yes I'll make issues.
No, he doesn't. Eutrusca is liberal.

You know, I'd actually read this article, but I can't quite seem to get past this partisan hackery.
To be fair, I have to roll my eyes at most of the mindless, shallow consumerist crap that comes from "Hollyweird", but it's not political.

To be fair, I have to roll my eyes at most of the mindless, shallow consumerist crap that comes from "Hollyweird", but it's not political.

Oh you bet your booties it's political. Jane Fonda, the traitor - no doubt ascribed to California and Hollywood. (All TV and films are made in Hollywood! even though they aren't). All those actors involved with opposing the Iraq war (and thus are also traitors). Again, Hollyweird. Hollywood is the scapegoat of the film industry.

But if the rest of the world, and the country, didn't like 'em so much they wouldn't pay to watch the fucking movies, wouldn't watch the TV programming, and wouldn't endorse the entertainment/fashion industry as much. That won't happen, so really it's all a case of people biting the hand that feeds them.

No, he doesn't. Eutrusca is liberal.To the best of my knowledge, he is not a homophobe, but he is hardly liberal, and there are homophobic liberals.

To the best of my knowledge, he is not a homophobe, but he is hardly liberal, and there are homophobic liberals.

Yes, I believe this is a correct assessment. Although like you said, he's no liberal, in fact he's pretty right of the political spectrum, even if he tries to say he's a centrist, but he's not. He's as conservative as they come.

Yes, I believe this is a correct assessment. Although like you said, he's no liberal, in fact he's pretty right of the political spectrum, even if he tries to say he's a centrist, but he's not. He's as conservative as they come.



No....he's centrist if anything. Just because someone isn't radically left, it doesn't mean they are right-wing. As a far-right person, I think I would know my own kind.

No....he's centrist if anything. Just because someone isn't radically left, it doesn't mean they are right-wing. As a far-right person, I think I would know my own kind.

I remember him from when he first started on the forums, trust me he's a conservative. He has adapted over time to appear more in the middle as it appears important to him to be seen as moderate, but he's anything but. If you get on his bad side he has no problem flaming, flamebait etc.. but he's morphed from who he was when he first started on NS. He's a conservative pretending not to be. For those of us who have been around since he started know that.

I was still a moderator when he started, I seen tons of his posts, most certainly a conservative. I would say we have much more far right wingers on the forum.. but that doesn't make him a centrist..

I was still a moderator when he started, I seen tons of his posts, most certainly a conservative. I would say we have much more far right wingers on the forum.. but that doesn't make him a centrist..

What's with his political compass scores (both negative)?

Going by that, I'm conservative.. but I'm not.. I'm libertarian.. but then again I got some issues with the political compass test.

What's with his political compass scores (both negative)?

Going by that, I'm conservative.. but I'm not.. I'm libertarian.. but then again I got some issues with the political compass test.

Yeah, I don't go by those compass scores, I don't think they are accurate and lets face it, anyone can say anything they like about what their score was. They mean nothing to me. What people say it what I gage them on.

Yeah, I don't go by those compass scores, I don't think they are accurate and lets face it, anyone can say anything they like about what their score was. They mean nothing to me. What people say it what I gage them on.



I try not to put too much stock in a compass that changes depending on the mood I'm in when taking the test :D

Yeah, I don't go by those compass scores, I don't think they are accurate and lets face it, anyone can say anything they like about what their score was. They mean nothing to me. What people say it what I gage them on.

I never really seen him post too much about gay rights.. but I'm curious to what he thinks..

Yeah.. I know they aren't too accurate.. and i think posting here is more indicative.

Only Republican cows fart. Democratic cows internalize their gas and process it into hydrogen. This hydrogen is then used to power baby-killing machines. The waste products are then strained for stem-cells. These stem cells will someday find the cure for mad-cow disease. Which will result in more cow farts....

Way to turn an innocuous thread into an author-bashing contest. Ridiculous.

I remember him from when he first started on the forums, trust me he's a conservative. He has adapted over time to appear more in the middle as it appears important to him to be seen as moderate, but he's anything but. If you get on his bad side he has no problem flaming, flamebait etc.. but he's morphed from who he was when he first started on NS. He's a conservative pretending not to be. For those of us who have been around since he started know that.

I was still a moderator when he started, I seen tons of his posts, most certainly a conservative. I would say we have much more far right wingers on the forum.. but that doesn't make him a centrist..

Oh I understand. Kind of like Hillary (I'm not really a socialist) Clinton on the other end of the spectrum! Hmmm seems the leapord really can't change their spots after all. I must remember this revelation.

I never really seen him post too much about gay rights.. but I'm curious to what he thinks.. He believes that that sort of thing is private, I think. He seems really conservative in how he thinks his country should be run, but he's a libertarian, I think (and a very nice guy, btw).

Here's the big question--is the cow stench worse than the one coming out of the Governor's mansion right now?

And is Arnold going to run for re-election and take the chance that he gets his ass handed to him by someone like Angelides? His approval ratings are in the 30s, last time I saw.

Be fair, Hollywood generally does produce crap (I'm looking forward more to a Warhammer fan-film more than I am for any 'mainstream' films, it's that bad).

Whether Eutrusca is a stinking right-winger, left-winger or fence-sitter isn't really at issue here, in fact, i'm no sure wha the issue is.

Way to turn an innocuous thread into an author-bashing contest. Ridiculous.
I agree. I've been reading some of the posts to this thread with a volitile mixture of increduility and total merriment! LOL! :D

Here's the big question--is the cow stench worse than the one coming out of the Governor's mansion right now?

And is Arnold going to run for re-election and take the chance that he gets his ass handed to him by someone like Angelides? His approval ratings are in the 30s, last time I saw.
No, I'm pretty sure he's done. But, in this respect I've been wrong before. Man I hope I'm not this time.

Whether Eutrusca is a stinking right-winger, left-winger or fence-sitter isn't really at issue here, in fact, i'm no sure wha the issue is.The issue is that animal farming is bad for the environment.
We can talk over some veggie burgers, if you'd like.

He believes that that sort of thing is private, I think. He seems really conservative in how he thinks his country should be run, but he's a libertarian, I think (and a very nice guy, btw).
Awwww! Thank you, sweet lady! You get a down-payment of cookies and a rain-check on anything you want ... anything! ESPECIALLY that! LOL! :D

The issue is that animal farming is bad for the environment.
We can talk over some veggie burgers, if you'd like.

Bleh, veggie burger stinks. But it is true that animal farming is not much good, especially in 'battery' conditions. Which is why I go free-range.

I would like to get the thread starter's opinion whether he has a phobia or not. I'm not sure and haven't seen enough of his posts. If he does in fact have something against gay people, then yes I'll make issues.
FOR THE RECORD: No, I have not myself seen any evidence per se of Eutrusca being homophobic, nor would I in seriousness imply that he is.

I was really just ribbing Eutrusca back as he makes fun of this state a lot. Ribbing, having fun at, playfully teasing. He usually refers to California as the 'Land of Fruits and Nuts' and that is what I based my text on. I was extrapolating in a pop-psychology (read:out of my ass) way what would be implied by someone who would hold that impression of a state as large and varied as ours, as well as parody one of his more infamous threads.

As far as the hijack, there wasn't much material on topic to go on so I don't feel too bad.

FOR THE RECORD: No, I have not myself seen any evidence per se of Eutrusca being homophobic, nor would I in seriousness imply that he is.

I was really just ribbing Eutrusca back as he makes fun of this state a lot. Ribbing, having fun at, playfully teasing. He usually refers to California as the 'Land of Fruits and Nuts' and that is what I based my text on. I was extrapolating in a pop-psychology (read:out of my ass) way what would be implied by someone who would hold that impression of a state as large and varied as ours, as well as parody one of his more infamous threads.

As far as the hijack, there wasn't much material on topic to go on so I don't feel too bad.
ROFLMFAO!!!!! You sir, are a true nut! LOL! :D

To the best of my knowledge, he is not a homophobe, but he is hardly liberal, and there are homophobic liberals.
Yes, I believe this is a correct assessment. Although like you said, he's no liberal, in fact he's pretty right of the political spectrum, even if he tries to say he's a centrist, but he's not. He's as conservative as they come.
I really can't remember him expressing many particularly conservative opinions, ever. His political compass score also suggests liberalism.

No....he's centrist if anything. Just because someone isn't radically left, it doesn't mean they are right-wing. As a far-right person, I think I would know my own kind.
What, you're a self-proclaimed socialist and yet you are "far-right"?

I remember him from when he first started on the forums, trust me he's a conservative. He has adapted over time to appear more in the middle as it appears important to him to be seen as moderate, but he's anything but.
I also remember Eutrusca from the early part of his membership, his psycho troll days. He flamed liberals a lot (and he is still not above flaming people sometimes) for supporting Kerry. But still, I find it hard to believe that the same person that we now know was behind those old posts.

Just because he supports the Bush foreign policy, doesn't make him an arch-rightist, and I see no reason for him to hide it if he is. How do you figure him conservative when he is pro-sex education spending, against governent intervention in social freedom, pro-choice, pro-regulation of business and pro-religious freedom? You seem to be so vehemently opposed to his position on the issue of Iraq that in your eyes, everything else he says is negated.

Liverbreath']Oh I understand. Kind of like Hillary (I'm not really a socialist) Clinton on the other end of the spectrum! Hmmm seems the leapord really can't change their spots after all. I must remember this revelation.
According to libertarians, both major parties are socialist. :rolleyes:

I really can't remember him expressing many particularly conservative opinions, ever. His political compass score also suggests liberalism.


What, you're a self-proclaimed socialist and yet you are "far-right"?


I also remember Eutrusca from the early part of his membership, his psycho troll days. He flamed liberals a lot (and he is still not above flaming people sometimes) for supporting Kerry. But still, I find it hard to believe that the same person that we now know was behind those old posts.

Just because he supports the Bush foreign policy, doesn't make him an arch-rightist, and I see no reason for him to hide it if he is. How do you figure him conservative when he is pro-sex education spending, against governent intervention in social freedom, pro-choice, pro-regulation of business and pro-religious freedom? You seem to be so vehemently opposed to his position on the issue of Iraq that in your eyes, everything else he says is negated.


According to libertarians, both major parties are socialist. :rolleyes:



Most people here would call me far-right because of my social policies.

Bleh, veggie burger stinks. But it is true that animal farming is not much good, especially in 'battery' conditions. Which is why I go free-range.
Yes, free range! But veggie burgers are good too! As are real beef burgers... mmm food.

Most people here would call me far-right because of my social policies.
Those are superficial. It's all about the economics.

Here's the big question--is the cow stench worse than the one coming out of the Governor's mansion right now?

And is Arnold going to run for re-election and take the chance that he gets his ass handed to him by someone like Angelides? His approval ratings are in the 30s, last time I saw.

Nope, he's not done. The Governor is doing a great job. And his approval ratings are much higher then that. Trust me. He won't get his ass handed to him. The dems will get their asses handed to them.

I really can't remember him expressing many particularly conservative opinions, ever. His political compass score also suggests liberalism.

Political compass is not accurate and can be misleading.



I also remember Eutrusca from the early part of his membership, his psycho troll days. He flamed liberals a lot (and he is still not above flaming people sometimes) for supporting Kerry. But still, I find it hard to believe that the same person that we now know was behind those old posts.

On this you make valid points. He has seemed to come around from those first days, when I was a moderator he drove me nuts. I use to always try to warn him without actually giving him any official warnings. I never really liked being all official..lol. However, I have seen many sides of Eutrusca, and they often contradict each other. So, I guess perhaps we may never really know who the real Eutrusca is. Perhaps that is the way he likes it. I don't know. However, I'm no longer a moderator any more hehe so it's also not my problem anymore. :)

Nope, he's not done. The Governor is doing a great job. And his approval ratings are much higher then that. Trust me. He won't get his ass handed to him. The dems will get their asses handed to them.

Now that the L.A. Times editorial staff must submit their work directly to the publisher insead of their own editors they are likely to be handed much more than just their asses. People are going to be amazed at how many vote according to who the paper supports.

Nope, he's not done. The Governor is doing a great job. And his approval ratings are much higher then that. Trust me. He won't get his ass handed to him. The dems will get their asses handed to them.
I just want everyone to see this: It's all southern California's fault, okay? Them-blame them. Sheesh...

Liverbreath']People are going to be amazed at how many vote according to who the paper supports.

LA times subscribership is way down.

I just want everyone to see this: It's all southern California's fault, okay? Them-blame them. Sheesh...

I never said that. :rolleyes:

LA times subscribership is way down.

800,000 now?

Political compass is not accurate and can be misleading.

It indicates most people's views accurately. For example, if someone one this forum has a score of -6.88, -7.12 I can correctly guess most of their positions. Of course there are always exceptions, such as me, Roach-Busters, Drunk Commies and Eutrusca.

Bleh, veggie burger stinks. But it is true that animal farming is not much good, especially in 'battery' conditions. Which is why I go free-range.Most free-range beef comes from South America, where rain forests are being clearcut to plant grass for the cows. Rainforest soil and grass don't get along, and the land is barren in a few years.
There are quite literally hundreds of different types of meat-free burgers. I fed my family some this weekend, and no one was the wiser. These are people who keep half a cow in their basement freezer. Trust me, you'd like veggie burgers if you gave them the chance.

Nope, he's not done. The Governor is doing a great job. And his approval ratings are much higher then that. Trust me. He won't get his ass handed to him. The dems will get their asses handed to them.
A great job? I lived in California until a month and a half ago, and he never did a great job. He didn't completely suck at first, but he made some major political miscalculations when he tried to break the nurses and the firefighters unions, going after them as special interests. It's one thing to go after prison guards--it's another to go after people who are considered, rightly so in my opinion, heroes. And as of a month ago, his approval rating was hovering around 35%. If he can't get his initiatives through this fall, he may not even run for re-election.

A great job? I lived in California until a month and a half ago, and he never did a great job. He didn't completely suck at first, but he made some major political miscalculations when he tried to break the nurses and the firefighters unions, going after them as special interests. It's one thing to go after prison guards--it's another to go after people who are considered, rightly so in my opinion, heroes. And as of a month ago, his approval rating was hovering around 35%. If he can't get his initiatives through this fall, he may not even run for re-election.

Bullshit. He is doing a great job and passed a lot of good. His approval rating is around 55%. Leftists. :rolleyes: And you use the typical "he's going after the teachers, nurses" tagline done by the hugely unpopular democrats in this state. Arnold will be able to win the election because the idiotic dems in this state have screwed things up enough.

Liverbreath']Now that the L.A. Times editorial staff must submit their work directly to the publisher insead of their own editors they are likely to be handed much more than just their asses. People are going to be amazed at how many vote according to who the paper supports.
If that was the case, then Arnold would never have won the special election two years ago---the LA Times was all over his ass with the groping story (a story I know to have factual basis because I know a woman who had to deal with him).

Most free-range beef comes from South America, where rain forests are being clearcut to plant grass for the cows. Rainforest soil and grass don't get along, and the land is barren in a few years.
There are quite literally hundreds of different types of meat-free burgers. I fed my family some this weekend, and no one was the wiser. These are people who keep half a cow in their basement freezer. Trust me, you'd like veggie burgers if you gave them the chance.

Had some bad experiences I'm afraid. I do Buy British on the whole though which isn't so bad. But yeah, I know veggie is the better option, I just don't go out of my way.

It indicates most people's views accurately. For example, if someone one this forum has a score of -6.88, -7.12 I can correctly guess most of their positions. Of course there are always exceptions, such as me, Roach-Busters, Drunk Commies and Eutrusca.

I think any of those tests you take on social or economic issues are not accurate in scale of a "score" because it gives a one size fits all to any given score. Thus the chance for it being inaccurate is actually statistically quite high.

If that was the case, then Arnold would never have won the special election two years ago---the LA Times was all over his ass with the groping story (a story I know to have factual basis because I know a woman who had to deal with him).

The story was BS like everything else coming out of your mouth...

I never said that. :rolleyes:
I'm just sayin'-in NorCal even the for the Republicans up here the honeymoon is over-
http://www.economist.com/images/20050806/CUS908.gif
Source (http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4254621)
“FANTASTIC” remains the governor of California's favourite word. So is Arnold Schwarzenegger smoking something other than his customary cigar? His approval ratings have plummeted from the stratospheric to the dismal.
So if you in SoCal for some reason are still feeling the love, if he gets re-elected it's you guys. I just want the other states to know where that comes from when they are scratching their heads trying to figure out what the hell we where thinking.

Bullshit. He is doing a great job and passed a lot of good. His approval rating is around 55%. Leftists. :rolleyes:
Let's see. According to a Field Poll (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/21/MNG56DBUNC1.DTL) from late June of this year:Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger suddenly ranks among the most unpopular governors in modern California history, as residents grow increasingly unhappy about the action hero-turned-politician's budget plans and his call for a special election, according to a new Field Poll.

Less than a third -- 31 percent -- of the state's adults approve of the job the governor is doing in Sacramento, down from 54 percent in February. The numbers are only slightly better among registered voters, 37 percent of whom are happy with Schwarzenegger's performance and 53 percent dissatisfied.
Feel stupid yet? :rolleyes:

I'm just sayin'-in NorCal even the for the Republicans up here the honeymoon is over-

So if you in SoCal for some reason are still feeling the love, if he gets re-elected it's you guys. I just want the other states to know where that comes from when they are scratching their heads trying to figure out what the hell we where thinking.

I always questions poll for BS. The governor has done a lot of good, and I think he will defy these arbitrary polls (where was the poll taken exactly I must wonder?).

Let's see. According to a Field Poll (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/21/MNG56DBUNC1.DTL) from late June of this year:
Feel stupid yet? :rolleyes:

SFGate? You must be the biggest moron of the year for me to believe that poll.

You must be the biggest moron of the year

Personal attacks not required!

Personal attacks not required!

If he can stop fielding inadequate BS polls, then I'll make the case on why I think Arnold would easily win in an re-election bid.

why? Because the democrats in this state are too retarded to field someone good enough.

If he can stop fielding inadequate BS polls, then I'll make the case on why I think Arnold would easily win in an re-election bid.

why? Because the democrats in this state are too retarded to field someone good enough.

Then say that. :)

Calling people names usually only weakens an argument. ;)

I think any of those tests you take on social or economic issues are not accurate in scale of a "score" because it gives a one size fits all to any given score. Thus the chance for it being inaccurate is actually statistically quite high.
What do you mean?

The story was BS like everything else coming out of your mouth...
That's flamebait.

That's flamebait.

Hey don't worry.. after it is nazz we are talking about here.. he is very consistent at least.. always spewing the same old, same old..

Most free-range beef comes from South America, where rain forests are being clearcut to plant grass for the cows. Rainforest soil and grass don't get along, and the land is barren in a few years.
There are quite literally hundreds of different types of meat-free burgers. I fed my family some this weekend, and no one was the wiser. These are people who keep half a cow in their basement freezer. Trust me, you'd like veggie burgers if you gave them the chance.
Can I try your buger, babie? :D

Had some bad experiences I'm afraid. I do Buy British on the whole though which isn't so bad. But yeah, I know veggie is the better option, I just don't go out of my way.Cows in the UK were fed grain imported from Ethiopia during the worst famine in recorded history. People were starving to death on the streets, and the UK was buying up the grain to feed cows.

Anyways to move away from that thread hijacking back to cows..

Can I try your buger, babie? :D

Most free range beef in Argentina is in the Pampas area, and that area was grasslands.. not jungle..

http://www.argentour.com/images/gaucho3.jpg

http://www.chagala.com/ibla/argentina/pampas.jpeg

That's what basically it looks like.. I would always love to go back to Argentina one of these days...

Can I try your buger, babie? :D

See? SEE? RIGHT-WING NUTJOB, THIS PROVES IT!11!!!

/hijack

I do find it interesting how the topic went from cow farts to Eutrusca's position in the political spectrum.

Bullshit. He is doing a great job and passed a lot of good. His approval rating is around 55%. Leftists. :rolleyes:
And then, presented with two seperate polls, one from The Economist-

I always questions poll for BS. The governor has done a lot of good, and I think he will defy these arbitrary polls (where was the poll taken exactly I must wonder?).

Sure, polls are all fine and dandy when you just pull them out of thin air, but when you actually conduct them-well then they are suspect...

And then, presented with two seperate polls, one from The Economist-



Sure, polls are all fine and dandy when you just pull them out of thin air, but when you actually conduct them-well then they are suspect...

I don't buy into those polls (even supposed well conducted ones). Man the left wing rhetoric smells worse then cow farts.

Now stop with the thread hijacking and get back to the topic.

What do you mean?

What I mean by "one size fits all" is if you score in a certain range, sure it might tell you for example that they may have conservative views. For example, perhaps they're "pro-life" but what it doesn't and can't tell you is whether the person is at the low scale of "pro-life but live and let live" or if they are the "go blow up an abortion clinic" type. Does that make more sense?

SFGate? You must be the biggest moron of the year for me to believe that poll.
It's a poll done by the Field Company and reported on by the San Francisco Chronicle, as well as the AP, the San Jose Mercury News, and dozens of other news outlets. Dude, don't get your drawers in a twist just because your illusions are shattered on occasion.

And by the way--if you knew the slightest thing about San Francisco, you'd know that the Chronicle is not a liberal paper--it's a corporate paper, run by the Hearst company. They're the home of Debra Saunders, for crying out loud.

As to the Arnold allegation--here's the story I know, and I got it from people directly involved in it. First hand accounts. In 1977, a little-known bodybuilder named Arnold Schwarzenegger was the bad guy in an episode of the tv cop show The Streets of San Francisco, starring Karl Malden. This episode was filmed at Anchor Brewing in San Francisco, at the old brewery on 8th Street, and if you watch the episode, you can see the owner, Fritz Maytag, and a couple of the people who worked with him in the background of one of the scenes.

Arnold filmed there for two days, and one of the women who still works there told me and others who worked there that while Arnold was in the brewery, she locked herself away in the office, after her first encounter with him, basically because he was all over her. I'm not going to give her name here because she's never gone public with the story and it's not my place to out someone who's never outed herself. I worked at Anchor Brewing for about nine months, until I left San Francisco for south Florida two months ago.

I don't buy into those polls (even supposed well conducted ones). Man the left wing rhetoric smells worse then cow farts.


Unless it's a made up number from a made up poll, right? Because this was you before the mountain of evidence, no?

Bullshit. He is doing a great job and passed a lot of good. His approval rating is around 55%. Leftists.

I mean, why would you state this unless you believed in the number or the 'poll'? Just a little honesty, that's all I'm asking for.

It's a poll done by the Field Company and reported on by the San Francisco Chronicle, as well as the AP, the San Jose Mercury News, and dozens of other news outlets. Dude, don't get your drawers in a twist just because your illusions are shattered on occasion.

how about we walk away from this before it turns into an argument? I'm going to show my voice in the election. I've seen numerous polls proven wrong in the last few years to not believe them anymore.

First hand accounts. In 1977, a little-known bodybuilder named Arnold Schwarzenegger was the bad guy in an episode of the tv cop show The Streets of San Francisco, starring Karl Malden. This episode was filmed at Anchor Brewing in San Francisco, at the old brewery on 8th Street, and if you watch the episode, you can see the owner, Fritz Maytag, and a couple of the people who worked with him in the background of one of the scenes.

You could be easily inflating and exaggerating it all. Also it is funny it came out a few days before the recall election.

I personally think you have an issue with credibility. I've noticed this since I got here (especially when you tried to make me a single issue voter).

Most free range beef in Argentina is in the Pampas area, and that area was grasslands.. not jungle..

I'm not saying that all S American beef is raised on clear-cut rain forests, just that the demand for beef is so high that they ran out of grassland and started destroying the environment.

I'm not saying that all S American beef is raised on clear-cut rain forests, just that the demand for beef is so high that they ran out of grassland and started destroying the environment.

Well not so the case in Argentina, and Argentina is the biggest consumer in South America. To not count them would be a great miscalculation.

Well not so the case in Argentina, and Argentina is the biggest consumer in South America. To not count them would be a great miscalculation.The fact that there is more demand than the land that is actually suitable for raising cows can meet means that more and more rainforest is destroyed every year, as the soil in the old clear-cut ares becomes barren.

The fact that there is more demand than the land that is actually suitable for raising cows can meet means that more and more rainforest is destroyed every year, as the soil in the old clear-cut ares becomes barren.

Yes but you are not counting Argentina, which is the largest producer in south America. I do recognize the abhorrent problems in Brazil... but you have to look at the entire picture. There is plenty of available land in Argentina.

See? SEE? RIGHT-WING NUTJOB, THIS PROVES IT!11!!!
ROFLMAO!!! Hahahahahaha! :D

Yes but you are not counting Argentina, which is the largest producer in south America. I do recognize the abhorrent problems in Brazil... but you have to look at the entire picture. There is plenty of available land in Argentina.The fact is that world consumption of beef is higher than what could be met using sustainable farming practises. If you buy Argentinian beef, someone else has to buy Brazilian.

The fact is that world consumption of beef is higher than what could be met using sustainable farming practises. If you buy Argentinian beef, someone else has to buy Brazilian.

Not if Argentina increase production. Unfortunately 80-85% of Argentina's beef is consumed internally. Argentina has huge potential.. far greater then Brazil.

Not if Argentina increase production. Unfortunately 80-85% of Argentina's beef is consumed internally. Argentina has huge potential.. far greater then Brazil.Argentina could not supply the world with beef unless we all reduced our consumption; if that happened, I'd be happy. If Argentina were to try and meet current demands so that no more rain forest would need to be cleared to raise beef in Brazil, it would create a situation in Argentina as bad as what is going on in Brazil. Over crowding of animals in and of itself is bad for the environment. That is what this thread was about in the first place, was it not?
Let's not force Argentina to become a wee Southern California.
Eat some soy, for god's sake.

Argentina could not supply the world with beef unless we all reduced our consumption; if that happened, I'd be happy. If Argentina were to try and meet current demands so that no more rain forest would need to be cleared to raise beef in Brazil, it would create a situation in Argentina as bad as what is going on in Brazil. Over crowding of animals in and of itself is bad for the environment. That is what this thread was about in the first place, was it not?
Let's not force Argentina to become a wee Southern California.
Eat some soy, for god's sake.

I never said Argentina could supply the entire world with beef. It could most certainly become a world leading exporter however if it were to focus on that. Argentina isn't as bad as Brazil, because mainly grasslands encompass it. It doesn't have to clear land. Furthermore, Argentina is the 8th largest country in the world (I think, I'll double check that). It has more then enough space. In fact there are so few in the pampas regions this is a good thing. I'm not going to become a vegan. So no. I'll continue to eat beef.

so both sides overstate the problems or lack of problems. whats new?

anyway I heard about a dairy farm on NPR a while back that completely contained all the cow methane but I can't find a link to the sotry anywhere. The neightbors didn't have to smell anything. they also had padding for the cattles feet. I thought that was pretty far out. I was so proud. They sold or used teh methane for fuel. can't remember but they were savign or makign money from it.

I never said Argentina could supply the entire world with beef. It could most certainly become a world leading exporter however if it were to focus on that. Argentina isn't as bad as Brazil, because mainly grasslands encompass it. It doesn't have to clear land. Furthermore, Argentina is the 8th largest country in the world (I think, I'll double check that). It has more then enough space. In fact there are so few in the pampas regions this is a good thing. I'm not going to become a vegan. So no. I'll continue to eat beef.I never said that anyone should become a vegan. When did this debate become about your eating habits? Or mine, for that matter?
I am a vegan, yes, but I don't think that everyone should be. I feel the need to be, because the world population as a whole consumes too much meat, and it is destroying the environment. As far as I'm concerned, irresponsible farming practises should be banned worldwide, and if that were to happen, the supply of meat and animal byproducts would decrease significantly. We cannot continue to depleat the world's natural resources for the sake of steak.
I would eat meat, but someone else already ate my fair share.

Hitler was a Vegan, swear to Godwin.

I never said that anyone should become a vegan. When did this debate become about your eating habits? Or mine, for that matter?
I am a vegan, yes, but I don't think that everyone should be. I feel the need to be, because the world population as a whole consumes too much meat, and it is destroying the environment. As far as I'm concerned, irresbonsible farming practises should be banned worldwide, and if that were to happen, the supply of meat and animal byproducts would decresae significantly. We cannot continue to depleat the world's natural resources for the sake of steak.
I would eat meat, but someone else already ate my fair share.

You said eat "soy" to people here. I'm not changing my eating habits. I will continue to consume meat because I don't think I would be healthy enough without it. It destroys the environment? You realize that these big agricultural farms also destroy the environment? Take Brazil for example.. most land has been cleared for agriculture. So please don't go blaming meat for all the problems. That's just a big fat lie. You need to get your views right. Argentinian beef for example is based on responsible farming practices, and they consume the most beef per capita in the world.

Take China.. overplanting degraded soil so badly it is useless.

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread.. might be a bit off topic, not having to do with cattle but..



System Unveiled that Changes Hog Waste into Clean Water

"There, that's pig water," Lloyd proclaimed as he held up the bottle and tipped it back for a thirst-quenching chug.

Lloyd's demonstration Friday wasn't designed to gross people out, but to show just how confident he is in his system that purports to purify the kind of putrid, waste-filled water currently dumped into so-called hog lagoons across North Carolina.

The pilot system developed by Lloyd at Little Creek Hog Farms cleans out three hog houses four times a day, churning out potable water within six hours that is recycled again to water the hogs. The solid waste strained from the water is mixed with high-carbon cotton plant remnants to make compost.

The $150,000 system developed with help from a state environmental grant is completely closed, with pipes running from flushing tanks through the houses and into purifying tanks.

http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=7793


I read about this months ago, but haven't heard much about it since. I hope it doesn't get puched aside because it costs more. If it works as is said, it's definatly worth it.
--------------------------------------------
The fact is, these factory farms generate millions of tons of untreated waste every year in the form of hog feces and urine. Most farms pipe the waste from the hog houses into open-air pits, or so-called "lagoons," measuring several acres across, and then siphon off the liquids to spray onto nearby fields. This primitive and wholly inadequate method of disposing of hog waste is dangerous to the environment and to public health.

http://www.selcga.org/Cases/act_hogs_background.shtml

This is one disgusting topic, if you Americans insist on your 99c beefburgers what do you expect?

Eat organic meat, don't be afraid to pay for good food.
Eat local food, from local farmers, cuts down on pollution and keeps your farming neighbours in jobs, and that keeps the countryside pleasant and productive.

This is one disgusting topic, if you Americans insist on your 99c beefburgers what do you expect?


Living in America, I find that stereotype a bit insulting. Not all of us eat 99c hamburgers..

Living in America, I find that stereotype a bit insulting. Not all of us eat 99c hamburgers..

I typically pay over a dollar for my burgers. But I am fabulously rich.

Living in America, I find that stereotype a bit insulting. Not all of us eat 99c hamburgers..
Didn't say you all did, did I?
We have plenty of fat, ignorant burger munchers over here in Blighty, but we're still behind America.
All I'm saying is lead by example.

Didn't say you all did, did I?
We have plenty of fat, ignorant burger munchers over here in Blighty, but we're still behind America.
All I'm saying is lead by example.

Many European countries have plenty, if not more issues with obesity.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002208999_obese16.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2005/03/15/2002208917.gif

Those numbers are just plain depressing.

Depressing indeed: -

Obesity is especially acute in Mediterranean countries, underscoring concerns that people in the southern region are turning away from the traditional diet of fish, fruits and vegetables to fast food high in fat and refined carbohydrates.

The Mediterranean diet is supposed to be one of the healthiest in the world, but it appears the mighty burger and french fries is taking over here too.

... don't be afraid to pay for good food.
What if it's not a matter of fear, but a matter of finance? :p

Many European countries have plenty, if not more issues with obesity.
Those numbers are just plain depressing.It says "men" and "women". What are the figures for children?

Depressing indeed: -

Obesity is especially acute in Mediterranean countries, underscoring concerns that people in the southern region are turning away from the traditional diet of fish, fruits and vegetables to fast food high in fat and refined carbohydrates.

The Mediterranean diet is supposed to be one of the healthiest in the world, but it appears the mighty burger and french fries is taking over here too.

Germany is a mediterranean country? I think it is quite a leap to blame american fastfood chains on this.. afterall.. aren't sales for McDonalds in Europe slumping?

You said eat "soy" to people here.I did. Eating soy does not make you vegan. Eating soy makes you an eater of soy.

I'm not changing my eating habits. I will continue to consume meat because I don't think I would be healthy enough without it. I never told you to stop eating meat. Now go eat some soy.


It destroys the environment? You realize that these big agricultural farms also destroy the environment?A huge portion of all the grain grown in the world is fed to cows. A cow will consume 8 times as many calories as will be derived from its meat in its life.


So please don't go blaming meat for all the problems.No, I'm gon keep doing that.


That's just a big fat lie. You need to get your views right. Argentinian beef for example is based on responsible farming practices, and they consume the most beef per capita in the world.I have yet to criticize Argentinian farming practises. Consuming the most beef per capita in the world is a bad idea, just fyi.

Take China. overplanting degraded soil so badly it is useless.And how many people did all that land feed? Over-population and irresponsible farming (out of necessity) is what depleated the soil nutrients there. Growing plants is not bad for farm land.

I never told you to stop eating meat. Now go eat some soy.

How about?

No.


A huge portion of all the grain grown in the world is fed to cows. A cow will consume 8 times as many calories as will be derived from its meat in its life.


That's what makes meat very tasty and guess what? I need the calories from meat. I can't live like a vegan.


I have yet to criticize Argentinian farming practises. Consuming the most beef per capita in the world is a bad idea, just fyi.

Is a bad idea? Really? You don't know what you're talking about. Argentina has a good life expectancy and a generally healthy population.

And how many people did all that land feed? Over-population and irresponsible farming (out of necessity) is what depleated the soil nutrients there. Growing plants is not bad for farm land.

Damn vegans... over planting depletes soil.

You know what I'm talking about.
I got the idea he was talking about shitty movies myself.

A great job? I lived in California until a month and a half ago, and he never did a great job. He didn't completely suck at first, but he made some major political miscalculations when he tried to break the nurses and the firefighters unions, going after them as special interests. It's one thing to go after prison guards--it's another to go after people who are considered, rightly so in my opinion, heroes. And as of a month ago, his approval rating was hovering around 35%. If he can't get his initiatives through this fall, he may not even run for re-election.
Why the fuck would he go after the nurse's union? I could see going after the teacher's union, although until it's taken care of at the national level he couldn't really do much, but going after the nurses union is just friggin stupid. That's one of the less corrupt and more fair unions out there.

That's what makes meat very tasty and guess what? I need the calories from meat. I can't live like a vegan.Yes,yes you can. You are able to. You don't want to.


Is a bad idea? Really? You don't know what you're talking about. Argentina has a good life expectancy and a generally healthy population.And they would be healthier and live longer if they didn't eat meat.


Damn vegans... over planting depletes soil.And, as I said, cows are fed most of the world's grain. We need to over plant to be able to feed the human population but only because the calories in the grain are inefficiently transfered to humans by way of feeding 8 calories to a cow a getting one back when you eat it.
If we did not raise livestock, we could feed the world's population using less land for agriculture and more sustainable farming practises.

And they would be healthier and live longer if they didn't eat meat.
This is pretty much unproven. The only realy way to quantify it would be to take a bunch of twin sets and make it so their diets were the only major physical difference that occured in their lives.