NationStates Jolt Archive

To whom it may concern,

Since our troops and others are still in Iraq dying-dodging and over all trying to make a bad thing a tad better, why dont you get your gluteus maximus back in the White house and not leave there till they all get back home. The idea of taking a five week vacation during a war when our troops are on the edge 24/7 is just astonishing....

This former military vet thinks regardless whether you can get the job done on the ranch or not your troops would rather hear "Im not taking a vacation till my men/woman all get home." Thats a leader........

Old indian proverb: I want your actions to speak so loud I cant hear what your saying.

According to Camp David records, Bill Clinton took more vacations than any other president. I don't mind that he took them, it's his choice and he had a hard job, but it does bother me that the people complaining now didn't care about it then.

According to Camp David records, Bill Clinton took more vacations than any other president. I don't mind that he took them, it's his choice and he had a hard job, but it does bother me that the people complaining now didn't care about it then.

Comparing George to Bill probably isn't the best argument for who the better man is overall. I see a a lot of similarities actually.

But even if you compared Junior to Senior (still not the best comparison), Junior would come up a little short...

According to Camp David records, Bill Clinton took more vacations than any other president. I don't mind that he took them, it's his choice and he had a hard job, but it does bother me that the people complaining now didn't care about it then.
Actually that was just to Camp David, President Regan currently holds the record of most vacation days as president, but President Bush will surpass him sometime this month. Both Regan and Bush spent more time on their respective ranches than Clinton did at the presidental retreat at Camp David.

Not like anything gets done during Congress' summer recess anyway. Even if he was on the hill, he couldn't do anything. Let the man take a few weeks off.

Not like anything gets done during Congress' summer recess anyway. Even if he was on the hill, he couldn't do anything. Let the man take a few weeks off.

Ya. It's when he's at work that all the bad shit happens. Frankly, I'd be thrilled if he'd just stay in Crawford for the rest of his term.

To whom it may concern,

Since our troops and others are still in Iraq dying-dodging and over all trying to make a bad thing a tad better, why dont you get your gluteus maximus back in the White house and not leave there till they all get back home. The idea of taking a five week vacation during a war when our troops are on the edge 24/7 is just astonishing....

This former military vet thinks regardless whether you can get the job done on the ranch or not your troops would rather hear "Im not taking a vacation till my men/woman all get home." Thats a leader........

Old indian proverb: I want your actions to speak so loud I cant hear what your saying.

The vacation is little more than a change of atmosphere. He could run the entire world from the Western Whitehouse if he wanted to. Are you trying to argue that moving the operation for a few weeks and a couple of golf games will jeopardize the country? Or are you calling him selfish?

That's like me calling someone who joins the National Guard scholarship program unpatriotic because they're in it for the money.

Snip

That's because he wanted to be close to Monica. ;)

The vacation is little more than a change of atmosphere. He could run the entire world from the Western Whitehouse if he wanted to. Are you trying to argue that moving the operation for a few weeks and a couple of golf games will jeopardize the country? Or are you calling him selfish?

That's like me calling someone who joins the National Guard scholarship program unpatriotic because they're in it for the money.

Seriously, since when has leadership and charisma had anything to do with practicality and truth? The image of a leader taking a vacation (even a working vacation) in war time is a bad one. No matter what the truth is, it SOUNDS bad, and in politics image IS more important than substance.

Its stupid, its pointless, but that's politics. Frankly, considering the amount of flack the president takes for what he HAS done, I would think his loyal opposition would take kindly to a less active period on his part. But again, its politics, pure and simple.

As long as the issue is whether US Presidents take too much vacation, not just Bush, then fair enough. Most of the complaining is just politics as usual, no doubt the Republicans accused Clinton of dodging issues in Washinton too when he left town. Anyway, all our elected representatives are basically on vacation during recess.

I'd be irritated if I learned he wasn't working at all, but that's unlikely. The President's hideaways are equipped like a miniature Whitehouse, they just take their work with them.

The point that it doesn't look good in time of war is valid, though it could be equally argued that it gives the impression of confidence. Personally, I'd rather see him in DC for reasons others have mentioned.

More anti-Bush threads.. doesn't surprise me... he never takes vacations.. he like my dad is always on call. My dad works for the government. He is never on vacation. They may give him time off, but it takes one call. With the president he is still doing his job when on vacation. Some concepts are just difficult for simple minds to understand.

Like it or not, Bush has pushed more legsilation and other things then Clinton ever did... he deserves the vacation.

And then you anti-Bush people get what you want (him playing less of an active role), you get angry.. and then when he does, you still get angry? You are bitter, bitter people.

I'll just ask my dad to see how he feels like to be on call every day of the year even during his "vacation" days. Next time you people bitch and moan you better know what the hell you are talking about.

Snip

Now wouldn't it be great if we agreed more? :fluffle: <- Purely platonic love fluffle

Now wouldn't it be great if we agreed more? :fluffle:

I think we have too many conflicts.

Look I agree with Bush maybe 60% of the time, but still I think what people are doing now is very unfair.

And that emoticon.. hahah.. i'm not sure if you would really do that.. lol

I think we have too many conflicts.

Look I agree with Bush maybe 60% of the time, but still I think what people are doing now is very unfair.

And that emoticon.. hahah.. i'm not sure if you would really do that.. lol

We can just leave social issues out of the conversation and have a big capitalist get-together. :p

We can just leave social issues out of the conversation and have a big capitalist get-together. :p

That's difficult.

Eh, social issues are where I'm probably the biggest activist... I can name some organizations I'm involved in. Ones that you would probably sharply disagree with.

That's difficult.

Eh, social issues are where I'm probably the biggest activist... I can name some organizations I'm involved in. Ones that you would probably sharply disagree with.

I'm not really strongly anti-homosexual marriage, more anti-abortion. Now I feel guilty for starting a threadjack. Let's stop before the mods come. :D

I'm not really strongly anti-homosexual marriage, more anti-abortion. Now I feel guilty for starting a threadjack. Let's stop before the mods come. :D

Ya.. but I was talking about homosexuality in general.

Anyways, back to the topic.

Bush's definition of vacation (so long as troops are in Iraq) should involve lots of sand. And I'm not talking about the beach.

More anti-Bush threads.. doesn't surprise me... he never takes vacations.. he like my dad is always on call. My dad works for the government. He is never on vacation. They may give him time off, but it takes one call. With the president he is still doing his job when on vacation. Some concepts are just difficult for simple minds to understand.

Like it or not, Bush has pushed more legsilation and other things then Clinton ever did... he deserves the vacation.

And then you anti-Bush people get what you want (him playing less of an active role), you get angry.. and then when he does, you still get angry? You are bitter, bitter people.

I'll just ask my dad to see how he feels like to be on call every day of the year even during his "vacation" days. Next time you people bitch and moan you better know what the hell you are talking about.

I think its you that dont know what your talking about.

Bush has taken more time off than any other president ever, and that includes Clinton....by a mile.

Please, tell me...what has Bush acheived that makes him deserve to take so many vacations?

I think its you that dont know what your talking about.

Bush has taken more time off than any other president ever, and that includes Clinton....by a mile.

Please, tell me...what has Bush acheived that makes him deserve to take so many vacations?

This is called a typical attack with no evidence. It is actually shown Clinton has taken more vacation time. You attack and you don't know what you are talking about! I'm not surprised.. I know most anti-Bush people don't know much.

Nice three line straw man against my response.

This is called a typical attack with no evidence. It is actually shown Clinton has taken more vacation time. You attack and you don't know what you are talking about! I'm not surprised.. I know most anti-Bush people don't know much.

Nice three line straw man against my response.


Fine. dodge the question I asked you.

I didnt expect you to actually have an answer anyway.

BTW...can you provide a link to your source?

In the meantime, you should read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080201703_pf.html

Fine. dodge the question I asked you.

I didnt expect you to actually have an answer anyway.

BTW...can you provide a link to your source?

Can you provide a link to anything you say? You don't have answers. You didn't have any in your pathetic response to me.

Can you provide a link to anything you say? You don't have answers. You didn't have any in your pathetic response to me.


look above sunshine.

Your turn.

look above sunshine.

Your turn.

*yawn*

Thanks for confirming the fact that you can't provide decent answers.

*yawn*

Thanks for confirming the fact that you can't provide decent answers.


oh..and heres another one:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/august01/2001-08-03-bush-vacation.htm

Lets see....thats two for me..and typical lack of useful knowledge from you.

Do you want to keep going, or do you want to actually attempt to answer the original question I asked you earlier?

oh..and heres another one:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/august01/2001-08-03-bush-vacation.htm

Lets see....thats two for me..and typical lack of useful knowledge from you.

Do you want to keep going, or do you want to actually attempt to answer the original question I asked you earlier?

"However, a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll of 1,015 people taken in April found that many don't take that view. Of those surveyed, 70% said Bush was working hard enough."

From your source. If you want to make yourself look more foolish, continue on providing sources without reading them. Oh please do.

Oh..and heres another.....this one is very interesting...you really ought to read this after you eat that crow your holding.

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html


So...in case your too busy believing everything Bush tells you to...this means that Bush is due to to have taken not only the longest vacation ever...but also..the most days away from the White House.

This is called a typical attack with no evidence. It is actually shown Clinton has taken more vacation time. You attack and you don't know what you are talking about! I'm not surprised.. I know most anti-Bush people don't know much.

My apologies about posting the whole bloody article, but I didn't want the link to die.

Bush begins 5-week retreat down in Texas

WACO, TEXAS -- President Bush is getting the kind of break most Americans can only dream of -- nearly five weeks away from the office, loaded with vacation time.

The president departed Tuesday for his longest stretch yet away from the White House, arriving at his Crawford ranch in the evening for a stretch of clearing brush, visiting with family and friends, and tending to some outside-the-Beltway politics. By historical standards, it is the longest presidential retreat in at least 36 years.

The August getaway is Bush's 49th trip to his ranch since taking office and the 319th day that Bush has spent, entirely or partially, in Crawford -- nearly 20 percent of his presidency to date, according to Mark Knoller, a CBS Radio reporter known for keeping better records of the president's travel than the White House itself. Weekends and holidays at Camp David or at his parents' compound in Kennebunkport, Maine, bump up the proportion of Bush's time away from Washington even further.

His long vacations are more than a curiosity: They play into diametrically opposite arguments about this leadership style. To critics and late-night comics, they symbolize a lackadaisical approach to the world's most important day job, an impression bolstered by Bush's two-hour midday exercise sessions and his disinclination to work nights or weekends. The more vociferous among Bush's foes have noted that he spent a month at the ranch shortly before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, when critics assert he should have been more attentive to warning signs.

To Bush and his advisers, that criticism fundamentally misunderstands his Texas sojourns. Those who think he does not remain in command, aides say, do not understand the modern presidency or Bush's own work habits. At the ranch, White House officials say, Bush continues to receive daily national security briefings, sign documents, hold teleconferences with aides and military commanders, and meet with foreign leaders. And from the president's point of view, the long Texas stints are the best way to clear his mind and reconnect with everyday America.

"I'm looking forward to getting down there and just kind of settling in," he told reporters from Texas newspapers during a roundtable interview at the White House on Monday. "I'll be doing a lot of work. On the other hand, I'll also be kind of making sure my Texas roots run deep."

"Spending time outside of Washington always gives the president a fresh perspective of what's on the minds of the American people," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said last week. "It's a time, really, for him to shed the coat and tie and meet with folks out in the heartland and hear what's on their minds."

Just as Bush has made these August trips a regular feature of his presidency, so, too, have Democrats made a tradition of needling him about them. This year, opposition politicians are tying his departure from Washington to the CIA leak case that has swept up his top adviser, Karl Rove.

"The White House stonewalling operation is moving to Crawford for the dog days of summer, but they can't hide from the legitimate questions dogging the president and his refusal to keep his promise and fire Karl Rove," said Josh Earnest, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee.

Presidents have often sought refuge from the pressures of Washington and from life in the White House, which Harry Truman called the crown jewel of the American prison system. Richard Nixon favored Key Biscayne, Fla. Bush's father preferred Maine. Bill Clinton, lacking a home of his own, borrowed a house on Martha's Vineyard, except for two years when political adviser Dick Morris nudged him into going to Jackson, Wyo., before his reelection because it polled better.

Until now, probably no modern president was a more famous vacationer than Ronald Reagan, who loved spending time at his ranch in Santa Barbara, Calif. According to an Associated Press count, Reagan spent all or part of 335 days in Santa Barbara over his eight-year presidency -- a total that Bush will surpass this month in Crawford with 3½ years left in his second term.

"The Oval Office is wherever the president of the United States is," said Kenneth Duberstein, who was Reagan's last White House chief of staff. "With the communications being what they are, the president can communicate instantly with whomever he wants anywhere in the world."

Bush will not return to the White House until after Labor Day, but his staff has peppered his schedule with events to dispel any impression that he is not on duty. He will visit at least seven states, mostly with quick day trips, including New Mexico, where he plans to sign energy legislation into law.

At some point, Bush said, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will visit for consultations. "I have a busy couple of weeks down there," Bush said.

But he will make time for fun, or at least his idea of it. Bush rarely takes the type of vacation one would consider exotic -- or, to some, even appealing. His notion of relaxation is chopping cedar on his ranch or mountain biking through rough terrain, all in 100-degree-plus temperatures in dusty Texas where crickets are known to roast on the summer pavement. He seems to relish the idea of exposing aides and reporters to the hothouse environment.

"I just checked in with the house -- it's about 100 degrees," he told reporters Monday. "But no matter how hot it gets, I enjoy spending time in Texas."

Sorry, Bush is the vacationing king when it comes to modern presidents.

Oh..and heres another.....this one is very interesting...you really ought to read this after you eat that crow your holding.

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20031001.html

Again thanks for supporting my own opinion:

"Although to be fair, much of this time is classified as a "working vacation.""

My apologies about posting the whole bloody article, but I didn't want the link to die.



Sorry, Bush is the vacationing king when it comes to modern presidents.

He also has ONE of the hardest jobs in the country. So please stop being so simple minded.

Again thanks for supporting my own opinion:

"Although to be fair, much of this time is classified as a "working vacation.""


Supporting your opinion??

Did you even read that?

It clearly outlines that Bush has taken more time away fro the White House than Clinton...wich..if you can remember..was your whole arguement!

What kind of idiotic spin are you trying to believe?

Ive backed up my claims...now you should try to have the nerve to do the same.

Go on..put your money where your mouth is...if you can.

Supporting your opinion??

Did you even read that?

It clearly outlines that Bush has taken more time away fro the White House than Clinton...wich..if you can remember..was your whole arguement!

What kind of idiotic spin are you trying to believe?

Ive backed up my claims...now you should try to have the nerve to do the same.

Go on..put your money where your mouth is...if you can.

You fucking read it. You've been posting so many articles you aren't bothering reading them. For one that article was some opinion written in 2003. and secondly, what can be classified as working vacation and not? The president whenever he goes on vacation is working. You are the one believeing idiotic spin.. and you yourself backed up my own claims (70% of Americans think he is working hard enough). You should shut up and stop wtih your annoying dribble. But then again you anti-Bush people are so ignorant you can't even recognize the facts. Bush has passed far more legislation (whether you agree with it or not) then Clinton ever did.

He also has ONE of the hardest jobs in the country. So please stop being so simple minded.
Simple minded? YOU were the one saying the President Clinton vacationed more than anyone else. I was just correcting your information. Personally, with today's world, I don't care where the bloody hell Bush is as I know he's connected.

You however took that correct to be an attack on the president when I did not state any attack, just that he will take the most vacation days of any modern president.

Try to actually read, it's just this little thing we do, ne?

You fucking read it. You've been posting so many articles you aren't bothering reading them. For one that article was some opinion written in 2003. and secondly, what can be classified as working vacation and not? The president whenever he goes on vacation is working. You are the one believeing idiotic spin.. and you yourself backed up my own claims (70% of Americans think he is working hard enough). You should shut up and stop wtih your annoying dribble. But then again you anti-Bush people are so ignorant you can't even recognize the facts. Bush has passed far more legislation (whether you agree with it or not) then Clinton ever did.


Thats not the issue....The issue was you.

You claimed that Clinton was the vacation King.

I claimed it was Bush...and then proved it.

That was the basis of the arguement..also, I asked you to tell me what Bush has done to earn himself such a lengthy vacation....a question wuch you have not had the balls to answer.

You however took that correct to be an attack on the president when I did not state any attack, just that he will take the most vacation days of any modern president.

Try to actually read, it's just this little thing we do, ne?

Here we go again with the rantings and blabbering... not really anything of the facts. Continue sounding like Michael Moore, and maybe in a few years you can tell me what a working vacation is. Not a vacation at all.

Hey Backwoods, you didn't prove squat because counting vacation time is subjective. And if you got off your idiotic biases, you would realize I did answer.

Hey Backwoods, you didn't prove squat because counting vacation time is subjective. And if you got off your idiotic biases, you would realize I did answer.


Now Im officially calling you a coward, and also a fool.

I gave my side of the argument, and proivided credible sources to back them up.

All you have done is insult me, wich up until now, I had not done.

If you cant back up your misguided beliefs, or at least make the attempt..then you shouldnt keep blowing so much smoke.

Now Im officially calling you a coward, and also a fool.

I gave my side of the argument, and proivided credible sources to back them up.

All you have done is insult me, wich up until now, I had not done.

If you cant back up your misguided beliefs, or at least make the attempt..then you shouldnt keep blowing so much smoke.

You learn how to type, and you shut up about your misguided beliefs. You are the fool, and you are the coward. You're also an inflammatory tool of the left. You are the one blowing smoke.

Here we go again with the rantings and blabbering... not really anything of the facts. Continue sounding like Michael Moore, and maybe in a few years you can tell me what a working vacation is. Not a vacation at all.
I love you, you keep attacking an attack that isn't even THERE.

The fact is, working or not, Bush has spent the most amount of time away from the White House on vacation. This is a fact and nothing you scream about will change the fact. Whether or not he deserves it, whether or not he needs it, or whether or not it is a working vacation, is besides the point. I do not comment on it because I have no opinion on the matter. But he HAS (or will at the end of this one) have taken the most days off.

And you never did prove your own point. If Clinton took the most vacation time, non-working now please, back that assesment up. If you cannot, please stop attacking, especially as you're attacking nothing.

You end up looking very, very silly.

You learn how to type, and you shut up about your misguided beliefs. You are the fool, and you are the coward. You're also an inflammatory tool of the left. You are the one blowing smoke.


and yet, unlike you...Im willing to attempt to prove what I say...all you can do is insult those you cant get the better of.

and yet, unlike you...Im willing to attempt to prove what I say...all you can do is insult those you cant get the better of.

I used your own sources against you fool.

I used your own sources against you fool.


No..you ranted and screamed bloody murder, and even right now, have backed away from every challenge given to you within the last few hours.

You do not back up your claims
You insult, instead of debate.
You claim victory, when all you have done is refuse to engae in a battle of wits.

You are a typical sheep, who does not wish to do thier own thinking, and uses the same rhetoric over and over, when actual logic fails you.

Why you even bother to engage in debates, is beyond me, as you have yet to try to prove any of your ideals.

You learn how to type, and you shut up about your misguided beliefs. You are the fool, and you are the coward. You're also an inflammatory tool of the left. You are the one blowing smoke.

So, you're not going to admit you were wrong, even when clearly confronted with it? Backwoods calmly provided the links to back himself up, and all you have done is insult him without producing anything credible or even making the pretense of continuing to argue your point.

You know, for someone so quick to run crying to the mods, you sure are pretty free with the insults. You excercise the height of hypocrisy when you accuse others of blowing smoke when all I'm hearing from you is the dry smoker's hack of ad hominem attacks.

In fact, such blantant hate mongering and hypocrisy deeply offends me. Maybe I should go to the mods?

I used your own sources against you fool.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/jusenkyoguide/6338392_f5e8b9a016.jpg

Fools

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation.

Fools

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation.


BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Tell me you didnt just try to make your point with a quote from FOX!!

Your so sad...Im done with you.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Tell me you didnt just try to make your point with a quote from FOX!!

Your so sad...Im done with you.

Look at your own sources.. CBS.. some dude in hollywood (op/ed section).. you might as well quoted michael moore..

Funny I provide citations and you just toss it. Maybe you should get over your own dumb biases, you sad basketcase.

Look at your own sources.. CBS.. some dude in hollywood (op/ed section).. you might as well quoted michael moore..

Funny I provide citations and you just toss it. Maybe you should get over your own dumb biases, you sad basketcase.


Sigh...

I admit it..Im a sucker for flamebait...

Lets see....I quoted:
USA Today.
The Washington Post.
and, Yahoo.com.

You quoted Fox News.

Whos sources were biased again?

I own thee.

Fools

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office — but that estimation included weekends at Camp David, a common practice for presidents. Without those days figured in, Bush actually spent 13 percent of his time on vacation.

You realize that the Fox/Moore quote only addresses the first few months of President Bush's term. Whereas the links Backwoods provided have a much longer scope. So, in fact, they couldn't have been drawn from Moore.

See what I did there? I actually addressed the content of your post and your link. Now you try it.

Sigh...

I admit it..Im a sucker for flamebait...

Lets see....I quoted:
USA Today.
The Washington Post.
and, Yahoo.com.

You quoted Fox News.

Whos sources were biased again?

I own thee.

Blah blah blah.. learn how to spell. Then get back to me. I quoted one that did all the equations and was actually from a later source. You quoted ones that seem to think that Camp David time was counted as vacation. For one, you aren't look at the facts that simply isn't true.

You quoted an Op/ed article and CBS.

Maybe if you weren't so anti-Bush, you would see that i'm right.

Sigh...

I admit it..Im a sucker for flamebait...

Lets see....I quoted:
USA Today.
The Washington Post.
and, Yahoo.com.

You quoted Fox News.

Whos sources were biased again?

I own thee.

The biasedness of the sources has nothing to do with it. Fox's link doesn't even address anything beyond the first few months Bush was in office. So it doesn't even apply. Apples and oranges.

You realize that the Fox/Moore quote only addresses the first few months of President Bush's term. Whereas the links Backwoods provided have a much longer scope. So, in fact, they couldn't have been drawn from Moore.

See what I did there? I actually addressed the content of your post and your link. Now you try it.

Hey Mr. I didn't read the article...

That article is from: Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Look at your own sources.. CBS.. some dude in hollywood (op/ed section).. you might as well quoted michael moore..

Funny I provide citations and you just toss it. Maybe you should get over your own dumb biases, you sad basketcase.

Hmm, Washington Post, a well respected and noted journal of record with a researched news story vaild in 2005 using impechable sources vs a Fox News editoral, written not about presidental vacation days or in 2005, but to refute a claim made in 2004 about events prior to 2001.

And, of course, does not back up your orginal claim that President Clinton took the most vacation days.

Hmm, Washington Post, a well respected and noted journal of record with a researched news story vaild in 2005 using impechable sources vs a Fox News editoral, written not about presidental vacation days or in 2005, but to refute a claim made in 2004 about events prior to 2001.

And, of course, does not back up your orginal claim that President Clinton took the most vacation days.

The Washington Post is well respected and noted? Hahahahah... give me a break. Impechable sources?

Again vacation days are not a objective measure. So really, your "impechable" (SIC!) source isn't all that it stacks up to be. Bush is always on working vacation when he gets vacation. Also I brought up the point of how much Bush has actually done in office..

Maybe if you anti-Bush people were not so blind, then maybe you would see the point I'm trying to get across.

Hmm, Washington Post, a well respected and noted journal of record with a researched news story vaild in 2005 using impechable sources vs a Fox News editoral, written not about presidental vacation days or in 2005, but to refute a claim made in 2004 about events prior to 2001.

And, of course, does not back up your orginal claim that President Clinton took the most vacation days.


I know...its as if Ol' Mes just doesnt want to admit he/shes wrong.

Hey Mr. I didn't read the article...

That article is from: Tuesday, June 29, 2004

Here's the exact quote from the article, "For instance, in one often-showed clip, Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation 42 percent of the time during his first several months in office ." [emphasis mine]

Ow, that's gotta hurt.

I know...its as if Ol' Mes just doesnt want to admit he/shes wrong.

I can't lose against an army of ignorance.

Gymoor, read the article again.

I can't lose against an army of ignorance.

Gymoor, read the article again.


Oh, dont be so hard on yourself.

You seem to be doing just fine at losing.

Oh, dont be so hard on yourself.

You seem to be doing just fine at losing.

Oh no. Fuck no. I don't lose. You are the one losing. I'll smash your opinion to pieces and guess what? I already have. If you can't distinguish between working vacation, I hope you never hold a job in your life.

The biasedness of the sources has nothing to do with it. Fox's link doesn't even address anything beyond the first few months Bush was in office. So it doesn't even apply. Apples and oranges.


My point about biasedness was in retort to Mes' accusations of my so-called biasedness.

I was pointing out the irony, that she (I think its a she) was quoting Fox News.

I can't lose against an army of ignorance.

Gymoor, read the article again.

I just did. There's no way you can possibly argue that the article addresses anything beyond the President's first few months in office.

No. I'm a "he".. again maybe your thoughts aren't in a logical setting..

I just did. There's no way you can possibly argue that the article addresses anything beyond the President's first few months in office.

You quoted Moore's belief. Interesting.

This former military vet thinks regardless whether you can get the job done on the ranch or not your troops would rather hear "Im not taking a vacation till my men/woman all get home." Thats a leader........

I wish Bush would have taken a formal vacation (read: resignation) after his first day in office, but I suppose after his term is up would be good too... :(

Oh no. Fuck no. I don't lose. You are the one losing. I'll smash your opinion to pieces and guess what? I already have. If you can't distinguish between working vacation, I hope you never hold a job in your life.

Backwoods isn't even arguing about the definition of working vacation. He has one point and one point only: That Bush is taking more vacation time (working or non-) than Clinton. This is irrefutable. So, why are you even arguing about it still, and why are you constantly trying to shift the argument?

You're not helping yourself with this foolish stance. I find people who are able to admit when they are clearly wrong to be much more credible, but apparently you were raised by a different standard.

Oh no. Fuck no. I don't lose. You are the one losing. I'll smash your opinion to pieces and guess what? I already have. If you can't distinguish between working vacation, I hope you never hold a job in your life.


Ok...one last time.

Do you remember our original arguement?

You claimed that Clinton had taken the most vacation days.
I said it was Bush.
After wich, I gave you three sources, USA Today, The Washington Post, and Yahoo.com, to prove that not only has Bush taken off more days than Clinton...but he has also taken the longest vacation, (or will at the end of his current one).

You gave a quote from Fox News, that attempted to refute Micheal Moores film.
However, even that article was only referring to Bush's first few months in office.

If this were a debate, in wich one side would clearly win, by a non-partisan judge..I would be kicking your ass, as you have done nothing to prove your claims about Clinton.
The only point you have made is about "Working Vacations" wixh, perhaps you assume Clinton never took?

Admit defeat.

You're not helping yourself with this foolish stance. I fond people who are able to admit when they are clearly wrong to be much more credible, but apparently you were raised by a different standard.

Foolish stance? What fucking foolish stance? I don't take foolish stances. I'm not fond of people who misuse sources and lie about what a vacation day is or not.

I don't think any of you should have jobs if you don't know what a working vacation is.

Mr Backwoods. You can't kick my ass because your argument is too damn weak.

Foolish stance? What fucking foolish stance? I don't take foolish stances. I'm not fond of people who misuse sources and lie about what a vacation day is or not.

I don't think any of you should have jobs if you don't know what a working vacation is.

Mr Backwoods. You can't kick my ass because your argument is too damn weak.


Thusly, you show your obvious immaturity, and I withdraw from this "debate".
I must sleep, and am tired of making you look foolish to everyone who reads this thread.

To whom it may concern,

Since our troops and others are still in Iraq dying-dodging and over all trying to make a bad thing a tad better, why dont you get your gluteus maximus back in the White house and not leave there till they all get back home. The idea of taking a five week vacation during a war when our troops are on the edge 24/7 is just astonishing....

This former military vet thinks regardless whether you can get the job done on the ranch or not your troops would rather hear "Im not taking a vacation till my men/woman all get home." Thats a leader........

Old indian proverb: I want your actions to speak so loud I cant hear what your saying.
Every vacation the President of the United States takes is a "working vacation," and bears little or no resemblance to vacations you or I might take. One does not simply make sure all the White House lights are out, the doors are locked, and all the water is turned off, then leave.

A bit of an apology:

I would like to apologize to everyone but anger got intertwined with my posting when it shouldn't of. I have a bit of a personal problem (more like issue) with several of my friends. Now this is about a very deep issue and these people have decided to betray my trust. I am also not up this late typically. It is 4AM here. The reason for this is I have been talking with one of my friends and I'm very upset. I'm not about to go into details about what happened, but is very serious and has to do with people who I thought I trusted.

Now I'm deeply sorry I took it out on you and hopefully I'll get some hours of sleep (as I do live in Los Angeles).

Every vacation the President of the United States takes is a "working vacation," and bears little or no resemblance to vacations you or I might take. One does not simply make sure all the White House lights are out, the doors are locked, and all the water is turned off, then leave.

Oops. *scraps presidential campaign plans*

No. I'm a "he".. again maybe your thoughts aren't in a logical setting..



You quoted Moore's belief. Interesting.

Yes, I quoted Moore's belief, which was refuted Fox. Fox quoted Moore's belief as well. What's your point. Surely any suspicion you might level at me would also then apply to Fox, correct?

But neither Moore's original assertion nor the refutation thereof has to do with anything beyond the first few months of Bush's term. Correct? So, let's say Fox is 100% correct on this one. That still does nothing to show how Bush's vacation record (working or non,) proceeded after that point. Nor have you provided any numbers about Clinton in any time frame. Therefore we have no complete numbers on Bush and no numbers at all on Clinton.

Oops. *scraps presidential campaign plans*
How very wise of you. :D

Personally, I wouldn't take the damned job if my life depended upon it! :p

The Washington Post is well respected and noted? Hahahahah... give me a break. Impechable sources?

Again vacation days are not a objective measure. So really, your "impechable" (SIC!) source isn't all that it stacks up to be. Bush is always on working vacation when he gets vacation. Also I brought up the point of how much Bush has actually done in office..

Maybe if you anti-Bush people were not so blind, then maybe you would see the point I'm trying to get across.

1. Attacking a source because you don't LIKE it is not a debate method, it is sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALA!"

2. If you are stating here that vacation days are not an objective measure (which I'm not sure WHAT you want as a measure), then, once again, where the hell is YOUR statement that Clinton took the most.

3. The article in question states that MOST of Bush's vacation days are working, but not all. But if you use this mesure, then you must also agree that previous presidents were also on working vacations, again, invalidating your point that we're talking about.

4. I don't care what Bush has done in office. I don't care what Bush has NOT done in office. The fact that we are talking about is that President George W Bush has spent the most time on vacation of any modern presidency, working or not (and yes sir, I DO know what a working vacation is. I am working, and I'm working in Japan, I get less time off then you do probably (and have always done so, even in the US).

Clinton had 8 years of vacation time

3. The article in question states that MOST of Bush's vacation days are working, but not all. But if you use this mesure, then you must also agree that previous presidents were also on working vacations, again, invalidating your point that we're talking about.


Please read my last post.. apparently you can't take an apology.

Every vacation the President of the United States takes is a "working vacation," and bears little or no resemblance to vacations you or I might take. One does not simply make sure all the White House lights are out, the doors are locked, and all the water is turned off, then leave.
You know, now I have the oddest mental image of presidents throughout history leaving notes for the milkmen to stop for a week or so and asking the post office to hold all their mail...

Thanks, Eutrusca, it's going to take me a while to get rid of that. ;)

Okay, let take this from another angle. The proposition has benn put forward that these are working vacations and that in this informational era, physically being in Washington is no longer required. So, then why are we supporting the capital at taxpayer's expense? How about all politicians stay in their district/state/ranch and save a fortune in upkeep and travel expenses? Is there a value to meeting in one place face to face?

Discuss.

Please read my last post.. apparently you can't take an apology.

I hadn't read that before I posted as I started my posted then got called away from my machine.

Clinton had 8 years of vacation time

Thank you for playing.

I could just as easily state that Bush has never done an honest day's work in his life.

I could say that your mother wears combat boots.

I could say that the moon is made of the finest greek feta, made from the milk of a sapient space goat.

None of which is supported by anything.

Again, thanks for playing.

Nothing is proved either by liberal biased papers with an agenda to perform. Can you name anything productive that Clinton signed while in office that has lead to the betterment of American Lives? Let’s name two of the negatives shall we

1) Tax increases, that ushered in the recession of 2000-2002
2) NAFTA

The only positive thing I can think of was that he got some young woman to give him a blow job. Damn that is hard work

Two of the things Bush signed into law that helps Americans

1) Increased Child tax credit for families in the Low Income Bracket
2) Tax Cuts that has created jobs. According to the BLS, Bureau Labor Statistics, We have 142 million Household jobs, this is the number as of March 2005. When Bush took office in 2001 there was 138 million. Believe that counts as jobs created eh? Oh and the best part the average wage an American makes is $16.12 an hr too. Damn sucks to be in such poverty.

Think of it this way,

If you want Bush to stay in the White House, then every damn Senator and House member should not be taking their vacation either. You all whine because you think Bush is some maniac dictator, luckily for us our Country requires Congress to be in session for anything to be done. So if people want to bitch about Bush taking vacations then bitch because the Congress takes them as well. Get on the phone and tell your congress people to get their asses back to the hill and get to work getting our friends and family home.

You know, now I have the oddest mental image of presidents throughout history leaving notes for the milkmen to stop for a week or so and asking the post office to hold all their mail...

Thanks, Eutrusca, it's going to take me a while to get rid of that. ;)
Actually, that's not too much of a stretch for presidents up to about the time of the "robber barons." Many of the mundane details of managing the White House were actually performed by the Presidents themselves. As the Nation began to move into the industrial revolution, things began to change, with labor in the White House becoming more removed and specialized as did labor in general.

A bit of an apology:

I would like to apologize to everyone but anger got intertwined with my posting when it shouldn't of. I have a bit of a personal problem (more like issue) with several of my friends. Now this is about a very deep issue and these people have decided to betray my trust. I am also not up this late typically. It is 4AM here. The reason for this is I have been talking with one of my friends and I'm very upset. I'm not about to go into details about what happened, but is very serious and has to do with people who I thought I trusted.

Now I'm deeply sorry I took it out on you and hopefully I'll get some hours of sleep (as I do live in Los Angeles).

We rely on everyone to not lash out their problems in this site, and to act responsibly. Saying that there is a specific problem that made you do it won't give you any sort of lenience. Thankfully, this was resolved by all of the parties involved. Continue on.

~The Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Nationstates Forum Moderator~

Well im not sure how Clinton got involved from my intial post and in many instances he had just as many issues as Bush does. My point is how could anyone take a break knowing they personally have sent troops to possibly die for there country?

I couldnt do it.......

Now i understand that really anything can be done from the ranch rather than the White house in this time and age. Im sure the troops would like to know in some small way that there president is roughing it for them symbolically and as a example to the world on how he feels about them.

But hey thats just me....

We rely on everyone to not lash out their problems in this site, and to act responsibly. Saying that there is a specific problem that made you do it won't give you any sort of lenience. Thankfully, this was resolved by all of the parties involved. Continue on.

~The Modified Freedom Forces of Euroslavia
Nationstates Forum Moderator~

Maybe so, but I was being honest about what happened and I'll take full responsibility.

If you want Bush to stay in the White House, then every damn Senator and House member should not be taking their vacation either. You all whine because you think Bush is some maniac dictator, luckily for us our Country requires Congress to be in session for anything to be done.

No it doesnt.
In fact Bush just appointed a certain new Supreme Court Justice while Congress was out of session.
Does that seem at all coincedental to you, or was that just an example of how our country works?

If hes not a dictator, why wouldnt he wait for Congress to vote on it?

Cause maybe they would choose not to appoint a man with only 2 years of judicial experise, a mere "Associates Degree" of being on a bench, let alone the highest court in the land?

So if people want to bitch about Bush taking vacations then bitch because the Congress takes them as well. Get on the phone and tell your congress people to get their asses back to the hill and get to work getting our friends and family home.

Sure.
Everyone needs a vacation from time to time.
However, I dont think anyone needs over 166 days off in one year, let alone a vacation of an entire month.
Especially when theres a war going on that HE started.

He can yell "stay the course!" down in Crawford for an entire month while his approval rating slips down to 38%, and more soldiers die everyday.
If hes not a tyrant, or a dictator, what kind of man is he?

Nothing is proved either by liberal biased papers with an agenda to perform. Can you name anything productive that Clinton signed while in office that has lead to the betterment of American Lives? Let’s name two of the negatives shall we

1) Tax increases, that ushered in the recession of 2000-2002
2) NAFTA

The only positive thing I can think of was that he got some young woman to give him a blow job. Damn that is hard work

Two of the things Bush signed into law that helps Americans

1) Increased Child tax credit for families in the Low Income Bracket
2) Tax Cuts that has created jobs. According to the BLS, Bureau Labor Statistics, We have 142 million Household jobs, this is the number as of March 2005. When Bush took office in 2001 there was 138 million. Believe that counts as jobs created eh? Oh and the best part the average wage an American makes is $16.12 an hr too. Damn sucks to be in such poverty.

Think of it this way,

If you want Bush to stay in the White House, then every damn Senator and House member should not be taking their vacation either. You all whine because you think Bush is some maniac dictator, luckily for us our Country requires Congress to be in session for anything to be done. So if people want to bitch about Bush taking vacations then bitch because the Congress takes them as well. Get on the phone and tell your congress people to get their asses back to the hill and get to work getting our friends and family home.

Please, for the love of god, would you use correct grammar? Where has the subjunctive gone?

No it doesnt.
In fact Bush just appointed a certain new Supreme Court Justice while Congress was out of session.
Does that seem at all coincedental to you, or was that just an example of how our country works?

If hes not a dictator, why wouldnt he wait for Congress to vote on it?

Cause maybe they would choose not to appoint a man with only 2 years of judicial experise, a mere "Associates Degree" of being on a bench, let alone the highest court in the land?


He also appointed the UN Ambassador without congress' approval. Sounds unconstitutional to me.

He also appointed the UN Ambassador without congress' approval. Sounds unconstitutional to me.


or at the very least.....dubious.