NationStates Jolt Archive

I dont know why people are so evil about guys who act like girls..i mean.......why is it FUNNY? WHY ARE YOU GIVING ME A WEIRD LOOK? LOL.

Seriously..I am not straight , I dont have to act masculine to attract women..I dont care about attracting women..why the hell cant i present myself however I want?

I think its a social prison.

no one laughs at a girl acting or dressing like a guy.

[/rant]

They find acting like a woman degrading, because they think being a woman is degrading.

We have this guy at my school that everyone knows is gay. He vehemently denies it, and his arguments are what make it hillarious.

He's chubby, emo, and talks like a valley girl. He has a LiveJournal and it seems that it's been made by a 21 year old anime fangirl who has way too much time on her hands and an illegal copy of Photoshop.

Then again he has a sister, so maybe we can absolve him of that LiveJournal's layout, but then again there's the fact that he even has one.

Because having a nation on NS is so fucking cool, otherwise. :rolleyes:

We have this guy at my school that everyone knows is gay. He vehemently denies it, and his arguments are what make it hillarious.

He's chubby, emo, and talks like a valley girl. He has a LiveJournal and it seems that it's been made by a 21 year old anime fangirl who has way too much time on her hands and an illegal copy of Photoshop.

Then again he has a sister, so maybe we can absolve him of that LiveJournal's layout, but then again there's the fact that he even has one.


see..you are the type of people who give me grief.

you assume assume assume..

guys should be allowed to be as fem as they want without being labelled as a homosexual..

that really pisses me off.

I wish people would just stop fucking judging , but thats never going to happen because stereotype is part of life. GAH. I will never be free.

There's nothing effeminate about being a geek who participates in a government simulation. Not only that but the demographics of NA show that we are overwhelmingly male, even if some of us happen to be metrosexuals.

Look at the demographics of LiveJournal. They are dominated by teenage girls, and the guys who have one don't make theirs light shades of blue, teal, and pink.


so what the hell is your point?

how does that make him gay?

Oh god. *sigh*

There's nothing effeminate about being a geek who participates in a government simulation. Not only that but the demographics of NA show that we are overwhelmingly male, even if some of us happen to be metrosexuals.

There's nothing cool about it either. It reaks of pathetic, be honest.

Look at the demographics of LiveJournal. They are dominated by teenage girls, and the guys who have one don't make theirs light shades of blue, teal, and pink.

Yeah, so? If you haven't noticed, this thread is asking why being "effiminate" irks you so much, that you need to think that you are above this person to such a degree that you can make fun of him for it, all the while having a nation on NS; the home of the terminally pathetic?

and than suggesting that he has to be gay..

I really dont get it. why are people so ignorant and moronic?

Theres straight crossdressers too, you know.

One's sexual orientation is not related to one's gender expression. Ta ta.

and anyways, i dont know why you are posting this on my thread, it seems like you just want to piss me off more. :mad:

I really dont get it. why are people so ignorant and moronic?

You answered your own question: because they're people.

He doesn't bother me. He's just there. I figured I'd bring it up because it might be pertinent to the thread.

I don't give him trouble, I just chuckle whenever he denies that he's effeminate/gay. He may not be gay, but it still tickles me.

How could you read the first post in this thread and think it was OK to post something making fun of someone you deem "effeminate"? Did you even read the first post? How does it become pertinent, when it is that action itself that is being questioned?

your input is that you also think its funny. Thank you! :)

anyways..fass..are you that guy that said you are a fem gay guy?

anyways..fass..are you that guy that said you are a fem gay guy?

No, I think that was Mesatecala.

I'm a not so fem, not so butch gay guy myself.

whoa..theres alot of gay guys here. =0

Frankly, I dont know what the hell i am at the moment. :headbang:

But i am afraid of the big bad world and the gender police that guards this society. I feel very uncomfortable at the moment.

whoa..theres alot of gay guys here. =0

Not really, and not enough, if you ask me.

Frankly, I dont know what the hell i am at the moment. :headbang:

There's no rush to determine it. There's not need to determine it, either.

But i am afraid of the big bad world and the gender police that guards this society.

They only have the amount of power over you that you allow them to have. Fuck them!

no one laughs at a girl acting or dressing like a guy.

[/rant]

Sure they do. I don't mean that any girl wearing pants will get laughed at... but it's not unusual for a girl who e.g. has short hair, dresses like a guy, does "guy" things etc, will be laughed at and called a tomboy or a lesbian.

I imagine it's much worse for effeminate guys, though.

People laugh at feminine guys because well, they are seen as wimps. I mean comon. You're suspose to be a GUY. Your suspose to love to wrestle, get messed up and be buff. Your suspose to play sport and be tough! Your not suspose to be a pansy. You can't change it. Its part of our mentaility. Its a part of who we are as men. From our knuckle dragging ansector. We were taught to be tough. We wern't tought to be well feminine. Thats just the truth. Now if you excuse me, time to go play tackle football.

It doesn't really bother me but I think what gay men fail to realise is that they over act, what they consider to be acting feminine comes across as acting like an attention seeking queen. Women don't act like gay men and gay men don't act like women, I think they are two completely different spheres. But generally gay men make me laugh when they are playing up the camp role so just carry on doing your thing guys.

Eh its just not natural, men aren't designed to be feminine.

*vomits*

Its pretty natural actually for men to have both feminine and masculine characteristics.

Some people are more extream one way or another, biology is not destiny. The women liberation movement has proven that.

I think some people have a weak sense of identity, and they need to laugh at others and belittle them so they can feel better about themselves and reinforce their own images of what they are supposed to be like. Its very selfish.

*vomits*

Its pretty natural actually for men to have both feminine and masculine characteristics.

Yea, tell THAT to Clint Eastwood, or tell THAT to Teddy Roosevelt.

I dont know why people are so evil about guys who act like girls..i mean.......why is it FUNNY? WHY ARE YOU GIVING ME A WEIRD LOOK? LOL.

Seriously..I am not straight , I dont have to act masculine to attract women..I dont care about attracting women..why the hell cant i present myself however I want?

I think its a social prison.

no one laughs at a girl acting or dressing like a guy.

[/rant]

Not every one laughs at guys who act or dressy girly. I'm a girl and given that most men I know don't dress well they do have a tendecy to label well dressed men. Rock on!

Eh its just not natural, men aren't designed to be feminine.

Men aren't designed. Period.

They only have the amount of power over you that you allow them to have. Fuck them!


I wouldnt care if I dont have to worry about money, my friend. I think finding a job is most difficult for...people like me. *sigh* But thanks for the advice, I do believe that I will stop caring what other thinks. I dont know. *shrugs* I reveal too much about myself here. :eek:

Men aren't designed. Period.

Yes we were. Men, and women are both designed, and while we have alot of things in common. There are a few things that seperates us.

I wouldnt care if I dont have to worry about money, my friend. I think finding a job is most difficult for...people like me. *sigh* But thanks for the advice, I do believe that I will stop caring what other thinks.

"People like you?" What is it that you want to do?

Yes we were. Men, and women are both designed, and while we have alot of things in common. There are a few things that seperates us.


we are not machines. :rolleyes:
seriously, there are more differences within sex, than between the sexes.

Yes we were. Men, and women are both designed, and while we have alot of things in common. There are a few things that seperates us.

No, we're not "designed." That's not how biology works. It isn't a designer. It has no intent. Also, it is no excuse for you to be a jerk to those who don't fit your stereotype.

I wouldnt care if I dont have to worry about money, my friend. I think finding a job is most difficult for...people like me. *sigh* But thanks for the advice, I do believe that I will stop caring what other thinks. I dont know. *shrugs* I reveal too much about myself here. :eek:

You know, the way you dress to a job interview is often the first impression you make on the person interviewing you. I mean if Guy A comes in with a nice suit, nice combed and cut hair, and just all around clean. Then Guy B comes in with messed up hair, stained T shirt and shorts, and hes dirty. I think we can safetly bet that Guy A would get the job over Guy B.

No, we're not "designed." That's not how biology works. It isn't a designer.

You do not believe in God or a higher being do ya?

You do not believe in God or a higher being do ya?

Of course I don't.

"People like you?" What is it that you want to do?


I want to do a job where i dont have to wear tie or a suit or anything thats gender specific. I feel more and more uncomfortable about being a "guy."

anyways, thats enough , people will not take my proposal/ resolution seriously if I claim to be so different. haha. My secret is out.

No, we're not "designed." That's not how biology works. It isn't a designer. It has no intent. Also, it is no excuse for you to be a jerk to those who don't fit your stereotype.

Hey, do I make fun of feminine guys. No, but do other people make fun of them, Yes. Do I like it, not really, but its a fact of life. I mean if your going to be out of the norm. You got to accept that you will draw attention to yourself.

You do not believe in God or a higher being do ya?

No he doesn't give a damn about the invisible wizard in the sky.

You know, the way you dress to a job interview is often the first impression you make on the person interviewing you. I mean if Guy A comes in with a nice suit, nice combed and cut hair, and just all around clean. Then Guy B comes in with messed up hair, stained T shirt and shorts, and hes dirty. I think we can safetly bet that Guy A would get the job over Guy B.


haha i know. :( But its not about that.

Of course I don't.

That explains it then.... You know, I can argue my point. Take a look at the male brain and female brain. EVEN that is diffrent. A male brain is neat and organized. You got your circles in one spot, and squares in another. However women brain are more disorganized. They got sqaures and circles everywhere. The circles and squares respsent stuff like motor skills, memory, left and right brain functions. etc.

Hey, do I make fun of feminine guys. No, but do other people make fun of them, Yes. Do I like it, not really, but its a fact of life. I mean if your going to be out of the norm. You got to accept that you will draw attention to yourself.

The culpability is still not with the one who is mocked, but with the ones who are mocking. All you're supplying are unbased teleological excuses for their behaviour, and I'm not buying them.

haha i know. :( But its not about that.

Just telling you the truth. If you want a job, your going to have to put on a suit.

The culpability is still not with the one who is mocked, but with the ones who are mocking. All you're supplying are unbased teleological excuses for their behaviour, and I'm not buying them.

Yea, ummm, you just made no sense there. I didn't mock him, and I'm just telling you how society works, don't blame me for how society turns out.

That explains it then....

Explains what?

You know, I can argue my point. Take a look at the male brain and female brain. EVEN that is diffrent. A male brain is neat and organized. You got your circles in one spot, and squares in another. However women brain are more disorganized. They got sqaures and circles everywhere. The circles and squares respsent stuff like motor skills, memory, left and right brain functions. etc.

I'm work in medicine, and that's also what I study, so I know a bit about neuroscience and neurology, and that whole paragraph is nonsense and has no connection to real neuroscience. It also still is not an excuse to treat people badly.

But men and women don't always fit neatly into their respective groups. A University of Cambridge study found that 17% of men have a 'female' empathising brain and 17% of women have a 'male' systemising brain.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/brain_sex.shtml

Yea, ummm, you just made no sense there. I didn't mock him, and I'm just telling you how society works, don't blame me for how society turns out.

I made perfect sense. You're trying to use some sort of idea of "design" to excuse the maltreatment of people.

For example, studies have found that women tend to be better at empathising and men are generally better at systemising. In other words, men are often more adept at discovering the rules that govern a system. They like to get deeply involved in activities such as car repair, computing or building up an extensive music collection.



tend means..not absolute. umm kay? stop imposing your gender stereotype on me! I dont have to fucking change, the society needs to change !

Seriously, i dont need your advice. You are just telling me to suck it up, I know that option quite well!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/brain_sex.shtml

Explains what?



I'm work in medicine, and that's also what I study, so I know a bit about neuroscience and neurology, and that whole paragraph is nonsense and has no connection to real neuroscience. It also still is not an excuse to treat people badly.

jeez, I swear I am going to have an aneurysm

Look, BIOLOGICALLY we are diffrent. Hell even our bodies are diffrent. Us men don't have the hour glass shape that women do. We develope more testastrone than women. We have balls. I am telling you, men and women are diffrent biologically. I mean if we wern't then how come, we all don't have big jugs, the hour glass shape and vaginas?????

I'm open, friendly and male and for some reason in Britain that is deemed a bad thing. :rolleyes:

jeez, I swear I am going to have an aneurysm

Look, BIOLOGICALLY we are diffrent. Hell even our bodies are diffrent. Us men don't have the hour glass shape that women do. We develope more testastrone than women. We have balls. I am telling you, men and women are diffrent biologically.

Yes. And so what?

I mean if we wern't then how come, we all don't have big jugs, the hour glass shape and vaginas?????

Again I say, so what? How is that an excuse to treat people who don't fit a stereotype badly?

For example, studies have found that women tend to be better at empathising and men are generally better at systemising. In other words, men are often more adept at discovering the rules that govern a system. They like to get deeply involved in activities such as car repair, computing or building up an extensive music collection.



tend means..not absolute. umm kay? stop imposing your gender stereotype on me! I dont have to fucking change, the society needs to change !

Seriously, i dont need your advice. You are just telling me to suck it up, I know that option quite well!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/brain_sex.shtml

Well your right, I am telling you to suck it up. See this is how I find liberals funny. You people, you freakin hypocrites. I mean earlier today in the ban smoking debate. It was "ohhh we got to ban smoking, we got to make the person conform to the masses." And yet here you are saying that the masses should conform to you. Wow.... I'm glad I'm not a democrat anymore. Wow...

who the hell is suggesting that men and women are not different? I am saying tha the difference between men and women are not significant enough to assume and impose behaviour on people based on their gential!

There are also differences between different men.. guess what, we are all different. And the sooner you realise that, the sooner people dont need to suffer for your ignorance.

Yes. And so what?



Again I say, so what? How is that an excuse to treat people who don't fit a stereotype badly?

And once again, I say NO, and once again, I say but that hows society works. Get over it.

Well your right, I am telling you to suck it up. See this is how I find liberals funny. You people, you freakin hypocrites. I mean earlier today in the ban smoking debate. It was "ohhh we got to ban smoking, we got to make the person conform to the masses." And yet here you are saying that the masses should conform to you. Wow.... I'm glad I'm not a democrat anymore. Wow...

That is completely irrelevant to the discussion here. Nobody cares about your US-centric diatribes about "democrats" and "liberals".

who the hell is suggesting that men and women are not different? I am saying tha the difference between men and women are not significant enough to assume and impose behaviour on people based on their gential!

There are also differences between different men.. guess what, we are all different. And the sooner you realise that, the sooner people dont need to suffer for your ignorance.

Hey personal choice buddy. You choose to be feminie, so its your cross to bear. I won't throw the stone at you, but I won't exactly try to prevent you from dealing with the consequences of your action. You choose to be feminine, so deal with it.

And once again, I say NO, and once again, I say but that hows society works. Get over it.


I happen to think that smoking should not be banned , if you want to die, its none of my freaking business.

And see...you are using the word "liberal" because you dont have an argument.

Thats whats wrong with close minded people..they attack people by putting a label on them..oh hes a liberal, hes a pansy, hes gay..as if that is supposed to increase the legitimacy of your argument.

And once again, I say NO, and once again, I say but that hows society works. Get over it.

No, I won't. If that is how society "works," then it is broken and needs to be fixed. There are no excuses for treating people badly because they do not conform to a patriarchal gender norm.

No, I won't. If that is how society "works," then it is broken and needs to be fixed. There are no excuses for treating people badly because they do not conform to a paternalistic gender norm.

Well good luck trying to change it in High School buddy. Because the way society is set up. Its going to take another few more Millenium to change.

Hey personal choice buddy. You choose to be feminie, so its your cross to bear. I won't throw the stone at you, but I won't exactly try to prevent you from dealing with the consequences of your action. You choose to be feminine, so deal with it.


whatever. I have never expected your help to begin with.

I happen to think that smoking should not be banned , if you want to die, its none of my freaking business.

And see...you are using the word "liberal" because you dont have an argument.

Thats whats wrong with close minded people..they attack people by putting a label on them..oh hes a liberal, hes a pansy, hes gay..as if that is supposed to increase the legitimacy of your argument.

I use the term liberal because this is how most of them act. You want the whole society to conform to your views, to your ideology, to the way you dress, just because of your own personal action. Well get over it. To work in this society you are going to have to go with the flow. If you want to dress like a woman. Fine, go ahead, but be prepare to deal with the consquences, and don't come crying saying that its unfair. Because guess what, ITS YOUR CHOICE TO DO THIS!

Again I say, so what? How is that an excuse to treat people who don't fit a stereotype badly?

It all has to do with that 'team alpha male'; straight guys thinking that if a guy is either gay and/or feminine, they're letting down 'team alpha' - the kind of juvenile bullshit they would have done in primary school of 'boys are better than girls'.

Its a known fact that men have massive ego's and are crap at communication, hence the reason they're beating their chest, and dragging their knuckles along the ground, hoping that a girl will pick them up like a long lost puppy and look after them - hence the reason why straight men tend to pick female companions that have the same values as their mother; as the joke goes, a man is weaned off their mother then onto a girlfriend.

As for me, I'm not masculine, I can't stand sports, don't understand cars and such, as for the bullcrap about 'men being able to understand maps better than women' - that has to be the biggest load of bollocks; I can't even locate north, let alone try to follow a map and orient my location to the map ;)

You could say i do.

i am gonig to bed, this is pointless. Nice meeting you, Fass.

Well good luck trying to change it in High School buddy. Because the way society is set up. Its going to take another few more Millenium to change.

Not all societies are like yours, fortunately. The simple way to change this hurtful behaviour in people is to not condone it. It worked with racism, it worked with misogyny, it is working in matters of sexual orientation, and it will work with matters of gender. The thing that does not work is accepting it and excusing it.

It takes time to change societal attitudes, but it has been done before.

It all has to do with that 'team alpha male'; straight guys thinking that if a guy is either gay and/or feminine, they're letting down 'team alpha' - the kind of juvenile bullshit they would have done in primary school of 'boys are better than girls'.

Its a known fact that men have massive ego's and are crap at communication, hence the reason they're beating their chest, and dragging their knuckles along the ground, hoping that a girl will pick them up like a long lost puppy and look after them - hence the reason why straight men tend to pick female companions that have the same values as their mother; as the joke goes, a man is weaned off their mother then onto a girlfriend.

As for me, I'm not masculine, I can't stand sports, don't understand cars and such, as for the bullcrap about 'men being able to understand maps better than women' - that has to be the biggest load of bollocks; I can't even locate north, let alone try to follow a map and orient my location to the map ;)

First of all, not all straight men who dress like men are primal apes that you so well put. I have alot of men who are straight, dress straight, and yet they are smart, well dress, and they know how to charm a woman like the young Howard Hughes. (Look him up). We all don't look for girls who will treat us like a puppy. Many of us like myself would prefer an equal partner. I myself want a woman who is smart, good looking, can hold a converstaiton, and yet can have fun at the same time. I believe I have found that woman. While I do not play sports, I don't get cars myself, and I have a GPS monitor in my car. I am intresting in airplanes, I love to watch films like "The Aviaitor" and I really love shows like the one Bob Vila has, and I just like to work with my hands. So you see a guy can be masuline, and he doesn't have to be a knuckle dragging ape that you accuse us to be in your paragraph.

I use the term liberal because this is how most of them act. You want the whole society to conform to your views, to your ideology, to the way you dress, just because of your own personal action. Well get over it. To work in this society you are going to have to go with the flow. If you want to dress like a woman. Fine, go ahead, but be prepare to deal with the consquences, and don't come crying saying that its unfair. Because guess what, ITS YOUR CHOICE TO DO THIS!

Such luck the civil rights and women's movements in your country didn't heed such horrible advice as yours.

Not all societies are like yours, fortunately. The simple way to change this hurtful behaviour in people is to not condone it. It worked with racism, it worked with misogyny, it is working in matters of sexual orientation, and it will work with matters of gender. The thing that does not work is accepting it and excusing it.

Eh racisim still exist, misogyny still exist, and as far as sexual orientation, ehh, lets just say the Gay Pride thing isn't exactly helping things in that department. And THAT still exist. Soo that whole paragraph is pretty much flawed.


It takes time to change societal attitudes, but it has been done before.

Yea but it won't change in your lifetime, or the grandchildren lifetime.

Such luck the civil rights and women's movements in your country didn't heed such horrible advice as yours.

Actually most hippies and women grew up and learn to work within the system. Ever hear of Ben and Jerry Ice cream? Yep Ben and Jerry were hippies. But they grew up, became successful business men and hey, they worked within the system to become a success. Some women went back to be successful mothers, such as my own. Others went on a path of self destruction *coughJaneFondacough* While other women became career women. All working within the system. Do you see how it works young Luke?

i am gonig to bed, this is pointless. Nice meeting you, Fass.

Discovering the frustration and futility that are the hallmarks of General forum debate, are you? Almost everyone figures it out sooner or later. Some of us move on to something else, some of us continue for our own reasons, and some of us get so upset by the ordeal that we lash out. Or we choose multiple options. Good luck with whichever you end up choosing, and I'd advise you to stick with the UN forum if you want to debate policy issues.

Eh racisim still exist, misogyny still exist, and as far as sexual orientation, ehh, lets just say the Gay Pride thing isn't exactly helping things in that department. And THAT still exist. Soo that whole paragraph is pretty much flawed.

So? Complete elimination can never be attained. That does not mean that minimising the effects of the things mentioned isn't worth while. Women can vote. Black people aren't slaves. Gay people can get married in several countries. Just because there remain vestiges of the oppression of yore, doesn't mean that society hasn't changed, and for the better.

Yea but it won't change in your lifetime, or the grandchildren lifetime.

I have patience. Making the world a better place to live in isn't something over night. Slavery took hundereds of years to abolish in the Western world, but it eventuelly happened. I think the struggle was more than worth it.

Actually most hippies and women grew up and learn to work within the system. Ever hear of Ben and Jerry Ice cream? Yep Ben and Jerry were hippies. But they grew up, became successful business men and hey, they worked within the system to become a success. Some women went back to be successful mothers, such as my own. Others went on a path of self destruction *coughJaneFondacough* While other women became career women. All working within the system. Do you see how it works young Luke?

Do you see today's system being what it used to be? Are blacks still unable to vote? Are women chained to the stove? No. The system has changed, and it will change.

Do you see today's system being what it used to be? Are blacks still unable to vote? Are women chained to the stove? No. The system has changed, and it will change.

Have you seen HOW LONG it takes to accomplish this? It didn't happen over night. Hell it wasn't till the 70s that blacks could vote without fear. and they were freed back in the mid 1800's. You fail to grasp at the concept of time. Alot of blacks went into the sytem of the government to change. You also fail to get that. Some did radical things like Malcom X. While other decide that a slow progressive change by working in the system is better. I tend to believe in the ladder.

Have you seen HOW LONG it takes to accomplish this? It didn't happen over night. Hell it wasn't till the 70s that blacks could vote without fear. and they were freed back in the mid 1800's. You fail to grasp at the concept of time. Alot of blacks went into the sytem of the government to change. You also fail to get that. Some did radical things like Malcom X. While other decide that a slow progressive change by working in the system is better. I tend to believe in the ladder.

And you seem to fail to realise that it was a struggle that took place. So what if it took time? Does not make the struggle any less important. The only way of certainly not changing things is to sit on your ass and accept them. Fortunately, there are and have been people who don't.

Before we go on. Lets get a few things straight. The thread starter CHOOSE to be feminine. No one told him to be feminine. Thereforth by his choice he must suffer the consequences. I mean if I go into my job tomorrow wearing a speedo, I must be ready to deal with the consequences. Thats all I'm arguing here. Also, there are diffrent defention of Civil liberties and social liberties.

Civil Liberties is The basic human or civil rights of the individual. Such as the right to vote, or the right to get a job, or to hold public office. Heres another defenintion. Freedoms that protect the individual from arbitrary government interference (as with the freedom of speech and movement).

Now lets look at Social liberity. (or social rights) Rights such as freedom of expression, education. Social rights and Civil rights are two diffrent things. So while I may not agree with the feminine guy here. I do respect his right to dress the way he does. All I am saying is that he better prepare for the consequences.

I'm open, friendly and male and for some reason in Britain that is deemed a bad thing. :rolleyes:

because that makes you odd in britain. Come to spain everyone's like that :)

Before we go on. Lets get a few things straight. The thread starter CHOOSE to be feminine. No one told him to be feminine. Thereforth by his choice he must suffer the consequences. I mean if I go into my job tomorrow wearing a speedo, I must be ready to deal with the consequences. Thats all I'm arguing here. Also, there are diffrent defention of Civil liberties and social liberties.

Civil Liberties is The basic human or civil rights of the individual. Such as the right to vote, or the right to get a job, or to hold public office. Heres another defenintion. Freedoms that protect the individual from arbitrary government interference (as with the freedom of speech and movement).

Now lets look at Social liberity. (or social rights) Rights such as freedom of expression, education. Social rights and Civil rights are two diffrent things. So while I may not agree with the feminine guy here. I do respect his right to dress the way he does. All I am saying is that he better prepare for the consequences.

And those consequences are vile, unethical, base and unnecessary, and will be fought against.

And those consequences are vile, unethical, base and unnecessary, and will be fought against.

You know, I really don't see how black liberation has any bearings on a guy who wants to dress up in a dress. The blacks were slaves, they were beaten, and till the mid sevenities they were discriminated against. None of that has happened to feminine, gays (ok well maybe a little), or cross dressing guy. So I don't think comparing what blacks went through to this is a fair comparison.

You know, I really don't see how black liberation has any bearings on a guy who wants to dress up in a dress. The blacks were slaves, they were beaten, and till the mid sevenities they were discriminated against. None of that has happened to feminine, gays (ok well maybe a little), or cross dressing guy. So I don't think comparing what blacks went through to this is a fair comparison.

It was an example of society changing and certain behaviours (beating blacks, owning them, killing gay people, oppressing women) becoming taboo and widely held as wrong. It was not a comparison.

Still, the fact that the consequences for "genderbending" people are wrong, and should not be tolerated, stands.

It was an example of society changing and certain behaviours (beating blacks, owning them, killing gay people, oppressing women) becoming taboo and widely held as wrong. It was not a comparison.

Still, the fact that the consequences for "genderbending" people are wrong, and should not be tolerated, stands.

So you just want to shelter society huh? Have you read the "Are kids becoming wimps." thread lately?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=435860

I think as a society we are becoming wimps. Instead of letting people just do their own things (I'm a libertarian), we just try to dictate what everyone does through the government. If this trends contiune, 1984 will become very real, very soon.

I don't discriminate against people who don't fit with the Gender stereotype, although I willingly admit that it is easier for me to accept girls behaving according to the Masculine stereotype than guys to the opposite. It's a little...odd at first impression, but that's due to the whole way in which the large majority of people are socialised in Western society, influenced by such gender stereotypes. If I met a guy that acted largely more feminine than usual, I would most likely give them a few strange looks. But, if I got to know them and they were a nice person, then I would have absolutely no problem. Just takes a slight period of time for my active conciousness to kick in over the socialised ideas that I've grown up with for the last 18 years in the UK. :)

So you just want to shelter society huh?

What does that even mean? I want to make society better, and having people not have to fear "consequences" for doing nothing that hurts anyone else is a step in the right direction.

Have you read the "Are kids becoming wimps." thread lately?

No, because, frankly, the title speaks volumes of what sort of crappy thread it probably is.

I think as a society we are becoming wimps.

I'm not part of your society, so I have no opinion on that. Also, I see nothing wimpish in treating people with respect and dignity, and not tolerating discrimination and abuse.

Instead of letting people just do their own things (I'm a libertarian), we just try to dictate what everyone does through the government. If this trends contiune, 1984 will become very real, very soon.

I have yet to mention forcing anything through the government. Societal values can be changed without legislative changes, but if there is a law that discriminates, it should of course be abolished.

Real men dont act like women, and real women dont act like men.
Of course both sexes have the same qualitys of courage etc but if a man runs he's condemned by his peers as a coward, if a woman runs shes a victim.

What does that even mean? I want to make society better, and having people not have to fear "consequences" for doing nothing that hurts anyone else is a step in the right direction.

What it means is that we are so obessed with accepting everyone, and sitting around the camp fire singing camp songs its disgusting. We are not a freakin Barney espisode for christ sakes. I don't want our society to be a freakin Barney espisode. I think that if people choose to do a certain act. Then they should deal with the consequences. And the fact that you don't want them to experience the conquences makes me wonder if you want a nanny state government.



No, because, frankly, the title speaks volumes of what sort of crappy thread it probably is.

Its actually a pretty good thread. Its about how kids today are having parents that sue over every little scrape and bruise. When I grew up, I hurt myself all the time, and I turned out fine. See this is what I am getting at. You can't just make everything all soft and fluffy. You got to let people get hurt every once in a while. Because if they don't then they become sheltered and they become like Paris Hilton. Do you really want a society full of Paris Hilton?



I'm not part of your society, so I have no opinion on that. Also, I see nothing wimpish in treating people with respect and dignity, and not tolerating discrimination and abuse.

Umm if you are in the United States, yea you are part of the society. What my wimpish comment was directed towards was trying to prevent people from accepting the consequences of their action.


I have yet to mention forcing anything through the government. Societal values can be changed without legislative changes, but if there is a law that discriminates, it should of course be abolished.

I agree.

What it means is that we are so obessed with accepting everyone, and sitting around the camp fire singing camp songs its disgusting.

I see nothing wrong with that. I don't like camp songs, so I don't participate, but I'm big on acceptence and tolerance of things that do not hurt others against their will. Be it legalising pot smoking, or society having nothing to do with what people do in their bedrooms, or euthanasia, or whatever.

We are not a freakin Barney espisode for christ sakes. I don't want our society to be a freakin Barney espisode. I think that if people choose to do a certain act. Then they should deal with the consequences. And the fact that you don't want them to experience the conquences makes me wonder if you want a nanny state government.

I want to do away with the wrong consequences all together. Degrading of others is nothing that should be accepted. Degrading behavior from others is nothing I will stand for.

Its actually a pretty good thread. Its about how kids today are having parents that sue over every little scrape and bruise.

My society is not built to be litigious in the way the US seems to be, so I can't relate to that.

When I grew up, I hurt myself all the time, and I turned out fine. See this is what I am getting at. You can't just make everything all soft and fluffy. You got to let people get hurt every once in a while. Because if they don't then they become sheltered and they become like Paris Hilton. Do you really want a society full of Paris Hilton?

I want a society full of people who accept eachother's differences and do not ostracise those who are "different".

Umm if you are in the United States, yea you are part of the society.

I'm not from or in the US. That's why it says "Sweden" in the location field below my forum name.

What my wimpish comment was directed towards was trying to prevent people from accepting the consequences of their action.

The "consequences" in the case we are discussing are wrong, and accepting what is wrong is, you guessed it, wrong.

Actually most hippies and women grew up and learn to work within the system. Ever hear of Ben and Jerry Ice cream? Yep Ben and Jerry were hippies. But they grew up, became successful business men and hey, they worked within the system to become a success.

I think the term you are looking for is "sold out." Ben and Jerry sold out their hippy beliefs in order to become successful. They haven't really changed a thing, they just abandoned their old beliefs, bought into the system and became successful ice cream makers.

Some women went back to be successful mothers, such as my own. Others went on a path of self destruction *coughJaneFondacough*

Hmm, yes. I understand Jane Fonda's quality of life is aweful, apparently she is only "very rich" not "mega rich."

While other women became career women. All working within the system. Do you see how it works young Luke?

Your just talking about people who abandoned their old beliefs and bought into the dominant way of life to improve their own quality of life.

This is meaningless within the context of the thread.

Real men dont act like women, and real women dont act like men.

I call bollocks, ducky.

I call bollocks, ducky.

Shows how little you know.

I dont know why people are so evil about guys who act like girls..i mean.......why is it FUNNY? WHY ARE YOU GIVING ME A WEIRD LOOK? LOL.

Seriously..I am not straight , I dont have to act masculine to attract women..I dont care about attracting women..why the hell cant i present myself however I want?

I think its a social prison.

no one laughs at a girl acting or dressing like a guy.

[/rant]
Ha! You think YOU'VE got it bad? Try being an old dude who won't roll over and play dead for idiots who think you should be like their friggin' dad or grandad! :headbang:

What it means is that we are so obessed with accepting everyone, and sitting around the camp fire singing camp songs its disgusting. We are not a freakin Barney espisode for christ sakes. I don't want our society to be a freakin Barney espisode. I think that if people choose to do a certain act. Then they should deal with the consequences. And the fact that you don't want them to experience the conquences makes me wonder if you want a nanny state government.

I agree! We're not a barney episode, and I wouldn't like my life to become one. I also think that people choose to do a certain act and that they should deal with the consequences.

Except here's where we disagree. You, by the way you're giving this argument, seem to feel that the consequences should be negative to the person, even if you don't engage in "the consequences" yourself. I think the consequences should be that they are treated exactly the same as every other person.


Tell me, what do you feel the consequences of a person who does not conform to a gender norm should be? What justification do you have for not wanting to ensure that everyone has the chance at an equal quality of life even if they don't conform to the norms?

because that makes you odd in britain. Come to spain everyone's like that :)

Yeah that's why many of my friends are not English. Hell I only ever had one Englsih girl friend and then I married an Italian.

English girls can't communicate.

...

Tell me, what do you feel the consequences of a person who does not conform to a gender norm should be? What justification do you have for not wanting to ensure that everyone has the chance at an equal quality of life even if they don't conform to the norms?


Hmmm, aren't we supposed to make a circle around the 'oddity' person and then peck their eyes out? Oh wait, no, that's what we are supposed to do if we are chicken hatchlings... Rip their throats out? No, wolves... Hold their head underwater until they drown? No, ducklings... Bash their heads in with a rock? No, chimps... I forget.

Hmmm, aren't we supposed to make a circle around the 'oddity' person and then peck their eyes out? Oh wait, no, that's what we are supposed to do if we are chicken hatchlings... Rip their throats out? No, wolves... Hold their head underwater until they drown? No, ducklings... Bash their heads in with a rock? No, chimps... I forget.

Evidently, to prove our superiority, we humans must do all of these, at precisely the same time.

Ha! You think YOU'VE got it bad? Try being an old dude who won't roll over and play dead for idiots who think you should be like their friggin' dad or grandad! :headbang:

Look you've got nothing to contribute! Just because you've more experience have seen more happen and have lived through more does not give you the right to butt in old man... :D

it looks like this poster needs to call the waaaaaaaaaambulance.

I dont know why people are so evil about guys who act like girls..i mean.......why is it FUNNY? WHY ARE YOU GIVING ME A WEIRD LOOK? LOL.

Seriously..I am not straight , I dont have to act masculine to attract women..I dont care about attracting women..why the hell cant i present myself however I want?

I think its a social prison.

no one laughs at a girl acting or dressing like a guy.

[/rant]

Because if a guy trys to talk like a woman it produces one of the worst sounds next to nails on a chalk board. Anyway, I thought dressing like a woman was meant to be funny anyway? You can't be a good drag queen if you take yourself seriously.

Shows how little you know.

Try getting out into the real world.

Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
Cause it's okay to be a boy

But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
Because you think being a girl is degrading - What it feels like for a Girl (Madonna)

I discriminate against people who DO fit the gender stereotype...or any stereotype at all -- especially if they're TRYING!

They find acting like a woman degrading, because they think being a woman is degrading.

The socially constructed gender of "woman" is degrading if you ask me. We need to move beyond this social construct.

The socially constructed gender of "woman" is degrading if you ask me. We need to move beyond this social construct.

Social constructivism is a crock.

The socially constructed gender of "woman" is degrading if you ask me. We need to move beyond this social construct.


I can see your point, what do you have most problem with when it comes to the social construction of women?

Guys that act like woman are just.... just..... Its just not right

Guys that act like woman are just.... just..... Its just not right

:D Hi, pleased to meet you! I'm not right!

:D Hi, pleased to meet you! I'm not right!
Pleased to meet you too... :D

its not right..but thats okay. :)

There's nothing wrong with being a feminine guy, seeing as I am one.

It's because of the stupid Jesus-lovers that we have this problem. However, when the revolution finally takes hold then all of them will be dead.

That will be a fun time, indeed.



Kill all of the Christians.

Nope as it would be moronic and a waste of time. Live and let live.

Kill all of the Christians.


NO. Please dont speak on behalf of femme bois if you want to speak like that.

NO. Please dont speak on behalf of femme bois if you want to speak like that.

I speak on behalf of myself. o_o

Bois? I hate that word... x_X

Sorry, I just don't like shortening or changing words like that, something about it irks me...

hehe. :)

I speak on behalf of myself. o_o

Bois? I hate that word... x_X

Sorry, I just don't like shortening or changing words like that, something about it irks me...

'Bois' isn't as annoying as making anime faces in a debate.

'Bois' isn't as annoying as making anime faces in a debate.

Fuck you, you Catholic. I've seen your homophobic garbage on here before.

Also of note, anime is pretty interesting, as long as you know what shows to watch and are able to download new ones from Japan. In particular, Gankutsuou is a very excellent show, which also happens to have a boy disguised as a girl being one of the characters. But I digress, back to the main topic.

I am an anime fan as a matter of fact.

I've seen your Christophobic garbage as well.

Perhaps we could make this conversation more civil? I mean without all those f-bombs and "kill all Christians" stuff.

I am an anime fan as a matter of fact.

I've seen your Christophobic garbage as well.

Perhaps we could make this conversation more civil? I mean without all those f-bombs and "kill all Christians" stuff.

Meh, alright.

But I still stand by my point that Christians are evil.

I assumed many things of others because of the stereotypes I grew up with. I have found many times they are false. I believe it is far better to deal with people on an individual basis. This is not to say I don't find myself falling back and using stereotypes to make decisions on occassion. I think we all do to some extent. I for one am not proud of it.

As one of my teachers long ago said... When we ASSUME it makes an ASS out of U and ME. LOL... I do not believe the saying originated with him...but I like it.

It seems to me that if you are attracted to women you would not be attrackted to a woman that dresses and acts like a man. And if you were attracted to men you would not be attracted to a man who acts like a woman. If I were a gay woman I would likely not date a butch as being in a relationship with someone who so closely resembled a man would give me some doubts as to my homosexuality. Pretty much the same if I were a gay guy who was dating a very fem boy. I don't think this qualifies as descrimination on my part so much as confusion. So if you are gay and your boyfreind is girly or your girlfreind is butch I'd like to ask why?

and i would ask why not.

Well just that if you find femininity attractive would'ntit make more sense to date actual females? And iof you find masculinity attractive why not date males? I find femininity to be attractive so i date females rather than trying to find males who are feminine. Which seems to me to be the practical way to approach things. If I were attracted to males I assume I'd find the most masculine one I could. (Yes there are gay guys who are'nt effeminate they make sense to me as do lipstick lesbians. My buddy Amanda is hotter than your GF. Deal.)

no. Some, not alot, but some people appreciate femininty in men and maculinity in women.

Besides, theres more about a person that his or her femininity

They find acting like a woman degrading, because they think being a woman is degrading.

Pofoundly and sadly true. Homophobia and sexism are long standing bed fellows

Fuck you, you Catholic. I've seen your homophobic garbage on here before.

Ah the voice of pc reason and open mindedness again.

Try getting out into the real world.

Your weird world you mean. :rolleyes:

Meh, alright.
But I still stand by my point that Christians are evil.

Your truly one messed up puppy then, if you believe that.
Do you think all muslims are evil too?

Nope, don't discriminate. That wouuld be having double standards, as I have been known to cross-dress.

btw. I'm hetero.

Nope, don't discriminate. That wouuld be having double standards, as I have been known to cross-dress.
btw. I'm hetero.

Who hasnt?
One of the most terrifying things you can run into is a rugby league team out on the town, drunk and dressed as women.

Who hasnt?

I could mention a very long list of people I know who never have and never will.

One of the most terrifying things you can run into is a rugby league team out on the town, drunk and dressed as women.

Haven't tried that.

I Have tried being hit on by an aquaintence who didn't recognice me once when I TGed a night on town, though. That was quite funny.

Besides, theres more about a person that his or her femininity

I was just wondering about this in relation to this post.

But men and women don't always fit neatly into their respective groups. A University of Cambridge study found that 17% of men have a 'female' empathising brain and 17% of women have a 'male' systemising brain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/brain_sex.shtml

Would not a man or womens femininity/masculinity be on of the main defining points of who that person is? We have all been told not to judge, someone on skin colour or religion or sex as they are superficial differences.
Then would not the make-up of the brain be a defining point. Whether someone is an empathiser or a systemiser would play a very large role in their lifes?
Anyone?

[QUOTE=Lovfro]I could mention a very long list of people I know who never have and never will.

Tell them to loosen up them, its fun for a laugh, thats all.

Haven't tried that.

My cousins rugby league team did, they really went all the way too, with their girlfriends doing incredible makeup jobs on some of them, that would have fooled the drunkest average male, until they glanced at the bulging muscles and hairy legs, not to mention the big ugly square jaws on some of the forwards.
Some of them even took hand bags, and used them to give hard slaps to any starers on the bus or to ones while walking through town on the pub crawl, even the biker pub on Hunter st thought it was a laugh, when we went in for a round with them. It was one of the most amusing nights of my life.

I Have tried being hit on by an aquaintence who didn't recognice me once when I TGed a night on town, though. That was quite funny.

I know its just for a laugh and to get a reaction, I dont take it seriously.

I dont know why people are so evil about guys who act like girls..i mean.......why is it FUNNY? WHY ARE YOU GIVING ME A WEIRD LOOK? LOL.

Seriously..I am not straight , I dont have to act masculine to attract women..I dont care about attracting women..why the hell cant i present myself however I want?

I think its a social prison.

no one laughs at a girl acting or dressing like a guy.

[/rant]Why should anyone care what your sexuality is, and why should you care what others think about your sexuality is, and most importantly, why do you think that anyone gives a rat ass what you do with your privates? Why is it only gays who think that everyone should care about and respect their sexuality? Shaddap about it.

Why is it only gays who think that everyone should care about and respect their sexuality? Shaddap about it.
He's not saying that you or anyone else should care about his sexual preferences; he's speaking of how his mannerisms conform to typical ideas of femininity in our culture, and how he is often made uncomfortable and disrespected because of them. The main issue of this topic isn't even about sexuality.

in a perfect world people could like whatever sex they like, and dress whatever way they feel. But unfortunatly this is not a perfect world, and there are a lot of homophobs who deserve to die. I'm not gay btw but I have friends who are so any homophobic comments and i will bite your nadgers off.

I was just wondering about this in relation to this post.



Would not a man or womens femininity/masculinity be on of the main defining points of who that person is? We have all been told not to judge, someone on skin colour or religion or sex as they are superficial differences.
Then would not the make-up of the brain be a defining point. Whether someone is an empathiser or a systemiser would play a very large role in their lifes?
Anyone?

Yes it would, so does the way you are bought up.

He's not saying that you or anyone else should care about his sexual preferences; he's speaking of how his mannerisms conform to typical ideas of femininity in our culture, and how he is often made uncomfortable and disrespected because of them. The main issue of this topic isn't even about sexuality.


Thank you.

I have a gay friend who completely acts like a girl... and I have a transsexual guy friend that I embarrassingly still sometimes refer to as "she", and I have a transsexual girl friend who I met when she was already a girl, so I don't have that problem... and I know lots of lesbians and bisexual girls. I have a gay ex-friend who ignores me now, too.

Umm, so, no I don't.

I am a fairly feminine guy, so no I do not.