NationStates Jolt Archive

Seriously, i believe in Ariel Sharon. I am 100% sure that he didnt wanted this, he had nothing to do with this. Also, 95% of the Israeli citizens agree that this was wrong.



Now they know how Palestinians feel about their own terrorists.

here (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/index.html)

Seriously, i believe in Ariel Sharon. I am 100% sure that he didnt wanted this, he had nothing to do with this. Also, 95% of the Israeli citizens agree that this was wrong.



Now they know how Palestinians feel about their own terrorists.

here (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/index.html)
Every race has terrorists. Some just have ALOT more!

Dude was probably a member of Kahane Chai or Kach. Kach has been around for some time. Kahane Chai is a less militant organization of the late Meir Kahane's followers. Neither organization is in favor of the Gaza pullout.

Sharon sharply condemned this. For goodness sakes he's just trying to withdraw from settlements and make the region more peaceful. This AWOL soldier who killed those people was nothing more then a terrorist.

Seriously, i believe in Ariel Sharon. I am 100% sure that he didnt wanted this, he had nothing to do with this. Also, 95% of the Israeli citizens agree that this was wrong.

Now they know how Palestinians feel about their own terrorists.

here (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/index.html)

Now I know you didn't say this... but surely random acts by a few individuals do not make the nation of their birth a terrorist country. It takes complicity in terrorism by government or organizations to create that status.

Just a cautionary statement for some who may want to flame Israel.

So what? Every nation has had terrorists in the past, and almost every nation has supported terrorists in some form at some point in history. I would say all, but what have countries like Monaco ever done?
While in this case it was bad, terrorism isn’t always a horrible thing. La Resistance and The Sons of Liberty are just two examples of "good" terrorism.

Terrorism by Jewish nationalists played a roll in the creation of Israel, so, you know, it's not like anyone's hands have been clean down there for a very long time.

Seriously, i believe in Ariel Sharon. I am 100% sure that he didnt wanted this, he had nothing to do with this. Also, 95% of the Israeli citizens agree that this was wrong.



Now they know how Palestinians feel about their own terrorists.

here (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/04/bus.shooting/index.html)

Personally, I consider bulldozing innocent civilians' homes and setting bombs in public locations to kill suspected militants who haven't even had a trial yet to be acts of terrorism too.

Israel has used methods that fit my definition of terrorism for quite some time.

Terrorism in this case is an evil thing (like with Al Qaeda) and is not needed. They are trying to pursue a peace process. A terrorist like this one did kill a Israeli Prime Minister in the past for pursueing peace.

Sharon sharply condemned this. For goodness sakes he's just trying to withdraw from settlements and make the region more peaceful. This AWOL soldier who killed those people was nothing more then a terrorist.
Not exactly true. He is pulling out of Gaza, but mostly becasue Israel can't absorb the 1.5 million Arabs in the strip, not because he wants peace. After all he is still pushing hard to rapidly expand many of the massive west bank settlements particularly around East Jeruselum which Israel illegally "annexed" in 1967. Gaza is of no real value, it is one of the most impoverished overcrowded areas on the planet, ownership of it was a enormous burden for Israel.

As far as the terrorist attack goes it was good the lunatic was stopped before he caused anymore carnage and only 4 people were killed. This kind of thing will probably be common for the next two weeks before the settlers are pulled out. There are lots of reports of people planning to commit mass suicide and other crazy acts of "resistance" against the pull out. Oh well hopefully the settlers only hurt themselves instead of the police and soldiers evacuating them or palestinian civilians.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/608418.html

Seems the BBC is focusing the story differently.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4746591.stm

Seems the BBC is focusing the story differently.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4746591.stm
All hail media bias!

Personally, I consider bulldozing innocent civilians' homes and setting bombs in public locations to kill suspected militants who haven't even had a trial yet to be acts of terrorism too.

Israel has used methods that fit my definition of terrorism for quite some time.

Those killed by Israel are known high-rankers in known terrorist organizations. Would you wait for bin Laden to have a trial, or would you rather see him dead, if he were in a location that would require a major firefight in a civilian area surrounded by people sympathetic to his cause? Instead, a single carefully aimed helicopter missile destroys a single car--the terrorist leader and his bodyguards. Besides, they are only "suspected" militants in the sense that they haven't been convicted by a court. Like the drunk guy behind the wheel at the accident, until convicted, is only "alleged" to have been under the influence at the scene. The Israelis, by necessity, have one of the world's best intelligence departments.

Those killed by Israel are known high-rankers in known terrorist organizations. Would you wait for bin Laden to have a trial, or would you rather see him dead, if he were in a location that would require a major firefight in a civilian area surrounded by people sympathetic to his cause? Instead, a single carefully aimed helicopter missile destroys a single car--the terrorist leader and his bodyguards. Besides, they are only "suspected" militants in the sense that they haven't been convicted by a court. Like the drunk guy behind the wheel at the accident, until convicted, is only "alleged" to have been under the influence at the scene. The Israelis, by necessity, have one of the world's best intelligence departments.
Good post.

Not exactly true. He is pulling out of Gaza, but mostly becasue Israel can't absorb the 1.5 million Arabs in the strip, not because he wants peace. After all he is still pushing hard to rapidly expand many of the massive west bank settlements particularly around East Jeruselum which Israel illegally "annexed" in 1967. Gaza is of no real value, it is one of the most impoverished overcrowded areas on the planet, ownership of it was a enormous burden for Israel.


That is an interpretation but I feel that the US government was the primary force in pushing Israel to withdraw. Israel has been attacked repeatably. They have a right to their own homeland. I do support withdrawl from settlements, but I also support the right for Israel to exist.

Yep. I do think terrorists don't need a trial, like Bin Laden. He should just be killed when we find him. Right on the spot.

The biggest difference I see between this and Palestinian suicide bombings is that I haven't heard about masses of people celebrating in the streets of Israel over this.

Those killed by Israel are known high-rankers in known terrorist organizations. Would you wait for bin Laden to have a trial, or would you rather see him dead, if he were in a location that would require a major firefight in a civilian area surrounded by people sympathetic to his cause? Instead, a single carefully aimed helicopter missile destroys a single car--the terrorist leader and his bodyguards. Besides, they are only "suspected" militants in the sense that they haven't been convicted by a court. Like the drunk guy behind the wheel at the accident, until convicted, is only "alleged" to have been under the influence at the scene. The Israelis, by necessity, have one of the world's best intelligence departments.

And what about the innocent people who have been accidentally killed during failed attempts to assassinate these militants? There have been a lot. More than the militants that have been assassinated. Even if you don't consider killing suspected criminals to be terrorism, what about the innocent men, women and children that happen to be nearby at the time?

These aren't soldiers. This isn't a war. Great effort has been spent to make sure that the world knows that terrorists are 'criminals' not 'soldiers'. Israel COULD capture them. If they can rocket blast an 80 year old blind and deaf man in a wheelchair during his morning prayer from an attack helicopter, I think they could have arrested him instead, don't you?

By the way, by no means should this suggest that I am siding with the Palestinians or the anti-Israel terrorists. Personally, I lost sympathy for both sides quite some time ago. You reap what you sow, and these two groups of people deserve eachother. The real crime is that they're killing eachother with financial aid from the rest of the world. Especially the U.S..

And what about the innocent people who have been accidentally killed during failed attempts to assassinate these militants? There have been a lot. More than the militants that have been assassinated. Even if you don't consider killing suspected criminals to be terrorism, what about the innocent men, women and children that happen to be nearby at the time?

These aren't soldiers. This isn't a war. Great effort has been spent to make sure that the world knows that terrorists are 'criminals' not 'soldiers'. Israel COULD capture them. If they can rocket blast an 80 year old blind and deaf man in a wheelchair during his morning prayer from an attack helicopter, I think they could have arrested him instead, don't you?

By the way, by no means should this suggest that I am siding with the Palestinians or the anti-Israel terrorists. Personally, I lost sympathy for both sides quite some time ago. You reap what you sow, and these two groups of people deserve eachother. The real crime is that they're killing eachother with financial aid from the rest of the world. Especially the U.S..
You want to try to walk into a city in the Palestinian territories and arrest a high ranking HAMAS leader? Good luck. It would be similar to the situation in the book/movie "Black Hawk Down". You'd end up fighting the whole city and you'd have to kill hundreds or perhaps thousands of civilians to get your troops back out alive.

All hail media bias!

Am I missing something? How was that article biased?

Am I missing something? How was that article biased?

The focus seems to be on the dead soldier killed by a mob and not the fact that he opened fire on a bus killing people beforehand.

The focus seems to be on the dead soldier killed by a mob and not the fact that he opened fire on a bus killing people beforehand.
Yeah I don't see how it is a "lynching" if the man had an assualt rifle and was in the process of reloading when he was killed by the mob. Aside from the headline though, the artilce did not seem to contain any flagrant bias.

Dude was probably a member of Kahane Chai or Kach. Kach has been around for some time. Kahane Chai is a less militant organization of the late Meir Kahane's followers. Neither organization is in favor of the Gaza pullout.
Change "probably" to definitely.

From the Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1123121934718):

The attacker was a resident of the West Bank settlement of Tapuah and was well known to police for his extremist views. He was a member of the outlawed ultra-Right-wing Kahane Chai party. An IDF soldier, Zadah had been tried in the past for refusing orders linked to the disengagment plan, and had been reported AWOL from the IDF 77 days ago - still in possession of his army-issued firearm. During his short army career he served time in military prison on two occasions.

He clearly wanted to sabotage the disengagement. Bloody bastard. As if Baruch Goldstein didn't do enough damage to Israel.

I am pissed off, BIG TIME pissed off. Four innocent people dead, two of them adolescent girls, and there's a dozen wounded. Most of them Druze and Christians, Arab minorities traditionally friendly, or at worst neutral, to Israel. AND he had the audacity to wear IDF uniform. although as far as the IDF is concerned he must have been thrown to jail. AND the fucked up timing- just when the country is so vulnerable and divided over the disengagement.

The damage done by this sick freak to Israel is simply beyond measure.

The only good thing I see in this story is the way the attacked people responded. They sure as hell have some real fighting spirit. The terrorist was killed before the police even had time to respond, as soon as his first magazine ran empty. One of the reasons why I admire the Druze so.

While in this case it was bad, terrorism isn’t always a horrible thing. La Resistance and The Sons of Liberty are just two examples of "good" terrorism.
I agree, though I believe that moral absolutist beliefs are required to share this opinion. Some of the most righteous terrorism IMO was the French resistance during WW2 and perhaps the ANC resistance to apartheid in the 1960s.

That said, I have revulsion towards all terrorism that targets civilians rather than the military targets.

Yep. I do think terrorists don't need a trial, like Bin Laden. He should just be killed when we find him. Right on the spot.
What about the right to a fair trial? Is that not a democratic right?
I fight against those who are against democratic rights, like christian fundamentalists and nazis.

That said, I wouldn't mind bin Laden getting shot if it was a case of that or let him go. But if he is captured, I say give him a trial.

You want to try to walk into a city in the Palestinian territories and arrest a high ranking HAMAS leader? Good luck. It would be similar to the situation in the book/movie "Black Hawk Down". You'd end up fighting the whole city and you'd have to kill hundreds or perhaps thousands of civilians to get your troops back out alive.

That is the situation the Israelis helped to create. They have made no effort to be anything but the Palestinian people's resident demon. Israel punishes them all for the actions of a small group of extremists and wonders why they act with solidarity.

I could have a lot more sympathy for the palestinian extremists if they actually WERE freedom fighters. But they aren't. They never were and they have demonstrated no interest in fighting for their freedom. Freedom fighters don't blow up city busses and malls.

These two groups of people are fucked. And no amount of international aid and/or outrage will change that until they both agree to stop fucking eachother.

That said, I wouldn't mind bin Laden getting shot if it was a case of that or let him go. But if he is captured, I say give him a trial.
I agree, but probably for a different reason. If he's given a trial we can publicly list the charges against him. Show the whole world, even those who choose to see him as a hero rather than the bearded turd he really is, what attrocities he's commited, attempted to commit and had planned for the future. Then he gets to go to a prison where I'm sure he'll be real popular with gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood.

Israel has had former terrorist as prime ministers and terrorism figured into the strategy that brought isreal into being as a nation . To me Israel will always be in some way linked to terrorism either by or against them .

but of course you guys didnt think only Palestinians could be terrorist right ?

Personally, I consider bulldozing innocent civilians' homes and setting bombs in public locations to kill suspected militants who haven't even had a trial yet to be acts of terrorism too.

Israel has used methods that fit my definition of terrorism for quite some time.

I agree completely

Terrorism by Jewish nationalists played a roll in the creation of Israel, so, you know, it's not like anyone's hands have been clean down there for a very long time.Exactamente

Israel hands are full of Blood...

This incident changes nothing.

I just think peace in the middle-east and therefore the rest of the world who has ties there is a dream. It wont happen.

Not until Israel is utterly destroyed and maybe not even then, maybe then it will switch to what Hitler tried to do. The utter extermination of Jews. Course then who ?

No doubt the earth will never know peace, atleast not until after the humans have long since been removed by our own hands. Id give us about .000001% chances of evolving beyond this idiocy before it exterminates our race.

Anyhow, wont say more. much too nasty a subject with religion involved.

I just think peace in the middle-east and therefore the rest of the world who has ties there is a dream. It wont happen.

Not until Israel is utterly destroyed and maybe not even then, maybe then it will switch to what Hitler tried to do. The utter extermination of Jews. Course then who ?

No doubt the earth will never know peace, atleast not until after the humans have long since been removed by our own hands. Id give us about .000001% chances of evolving beyond this idiocy before it exterminates our race.

Anyhow, wont say more. much too nasty a subject with religion involved.

Dude you make me want to get drunk and blow my brains out .
You must be a trip at partys .

Israel bought the entire portion of land known as Gaza. Then the Arab nations around them thought it would be great fun to try to wipe them off the face of the earth. The ensuing wars (which the Arabs would like to forget because of the way in which and how badly they were beaten) left many people homeless. To cause the new Israeli government problems, those same governments refused to allow the homeless to immigrate into their countries, forcing them to stay in Israel. They became the group now attempting to gain a sovereign state of Palestine. While I do not hold those governments completely responsible, (Isreal made some, maybe more than some, bad decisions) but one of the biggest problems is the fact that no one in that region wants to recognize the Israeli state because they don't want it there. They want the land for themselves (or pretty much anybody but the Jews). As long as there is animosity at the international level, no one will be able to keep the people at the street level from doing stupid, violent things. Peace in the Middle-East is only possible if stupid people are kept from doing stupid things. That is a very slim chance.

Israel bought the entire portion of land known as Gaza.
They did?

They did?
Actually, I believe he is half correct, the Jewish immigrants purchased most of the Gaza strip land from the local Beduin population before the creation of the state, and it is a fact that most Gaza settlements stand in place of the Jewish towns wiped out by the Egyptian army in 1948.

Actually, I believe he is half correct, the Jewish immigrants purchased most of the Gaza strip land from the local Beduin population before the creation of the state, and it is a fact that most Gaza settlements stand in place of the Jewish towns wiped out by the Egyptian army in 1948.
Well okay. But I would point out that it doesn't matter what used to be where the settlements are. Point is that they are in an occupied territory and not in Israel, as defined in the various treaties.

Isreal is a crappy country in a crappy region, but I rather have then own Isreal then those A-Rabs.

Actually its not that crappy , Israelis have invented so much to the scientific and medical world, much more then most countries have in many many many years.