NationStates Jolt Archive

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?

Do you want your women to fall in and come looking for vengeance?

This should go under thread of pasttimes Men hate doing in order to please women. :p


I never leave the toilet seat down. Ever. Unless it is 10 at night and I missed the toilet bowl.

Well for us it's just plain common sense. The house we bought has a really old toilet that we haven't replaced yet, and the underside of the seat has some really hideous old stains that not even bleach would take out.

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?

Because, occassionally, we need it down.

I think in most cases when it comes to bathroom useage, it is general knowledge that men are...slobs... Hell, some guys can even be inconsiderate to other men. I can't tell you how many times I've used a men's public restroom, and some dumb shmuck forgets to put the seat UP before taking a piss. I go in to take a #2 (tee hee), and there's a wet toilet seat...pisses me off

However, I see where you are coming from on a basis of gender equality. I think all this can be solved with some common courtesy and common sense.

Do you want your women to fall in and come looking for vengeance?

If I can tell that the seat is down and move it up, a woman can tell that the seat is up and move it down. If she is too absent-minded to check the first time, she will get a very quick object lesson, and will not forget to do so in the future.

Well for us it's just plain common sense. The house we bought has a really old toilet that we haven't replaced yet, and the underside of the seat has some really hideous old stains that not even bleach would take out.

You have a point there. Perhaps I will reconsidder my position.

If you stumble in at night to pee and forget to lift the seat, big deal, pee on the seat. If we stumble in at night and the seat's up, our ass is in the water. It's polite so we don't suffer. :D

But it's not something I'd be angry about.

I always put it down, and frankly, I really don't see the big deal in doing so. You might as well, since 1) You may have to sit down yourself, later, and 2)A female guest/lover may have to as well. Besides, to me, walking into a house and seeing someone's left the toilet seat up is a sign of them just being very, very lazy and generally thoughtless.

A few reasons:

1. As has already been pointed out, the undersides of toilet seats (and the tops of toilet bowls) tend to be pretty ugly.

2. As has also been pointed out, the experience of "crap, the seat's still down and I'm peeing" is significantly more pleasant than that of "crap, I just fell in the toilet."

3. If the toilet seat is gross, it is much easier to lift it with the toe of your shoe than it is to put it down with the toe of your shoe (unless you're particularly flexible).

4. Everyone needs it down at least sometimes. Only one gender ever needs it up.

I never leave the toilet seat down. Ever. Unless it is 10 at night and I missed the toilet bowl.In my friends home the Toilet is always down...he is a old time Gentleman...

and he has a good aim too... :D

sometimes his Girfriend sits on his piss...But she never-ever complains about him Leaving the seat Up. :D

I'm glad to see no one has yet used the "leave it like you found it" argument for putting the toilet seat down.

I never did see why the men have to put it down again, but I highly appreciate it. It's kind of annoying when my dad leaves the toilet seat up - especially when I really need to go pee.

Don't you guys sit on the toilet seat when you want to take a dump? We all gotta sit sometimes.

If you really can't be bothered to put it back down, don't put it up in the first place. Just aim properly, and it should be oh-kay. And if you pee on the seat, wipe it off and don't let anyone know.


But it's more aesthetic, in a sick twisted way. It looks better.

Honestly, even being a female, I used to think: What does it matter, up or down?

Then, on one fateful night (very, very late) I went to the bathroom and, in my half-asleep stupidity, I sat down without checking into the seat status. One would think that after so many years of practice a man could actually hit the inside of the toilet and not the rim. :eek:

I don't see the point. They don't lift it up for me.

As a male who grew up with alot of females around, I never lift the seat. I use it sitting down... even for a Number 1. Less complaints that way.

Do you want your women to fall in and come looking for vengeance?

The fact he even questioned it suggests he doesn't have one. ;)

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?

Oh. Oops. I missed that bit, somehow.

It's just chivalry. Like opening the door, helping the woman into her seat, asking HER on the date and not the other way around. That kind of thing.

It's like charisma. It gets you places.

i've thought about this in the past, although i get round the problem by putting both seat and lid down. that way no-matter which gender uses the bog they both have to lift something up. its a little bit more effort on all accounts for that little bit extra equality ;)


anyone remember my political toilet seat analogy thread? :D

Do you want your women to fall in and come looking for vengeance?
Considering how often it is claimed that women are smarter than men, you would think they would have learned to look where they are sitting by now.

I used to be nice about putting the seat down. That was until my roommate said she was training me. Now I never bother putting the seat down.

Considering how often it is claimed that women are smarter than men, you would think they would have learned to look where they are sitting by now.

Hear, hear!

I put the seat and the lid down, and I go crazy nuts when someone leaves the seat down but the lid up. It is nice to be able to use the toliet seat as a shelf when you are taking a shower and it wont shoot a fine mist of toilet bowl water on your toothbrush when you flush it.

Sanitary reasons, shut the seat and the lid so you won't have wonderful smells and toilet water all over the place.

For me, right now, I have a nice heated seat so I always leave it down anyway because it's the only way to get warm in that particular room during the winter (Japanese houses have NO insulation and NO central heating).

That, and if my fiancee ever did fall in, I wouldn't want her to come looking for me.

A few reasons:

1. As has already been pointed out, the undersides of toilet seats (and the tops of toilet bowls) tend to be pretty ugly.

2. As has also been pointed out, the experience of "crap, the seat's still down and I'm peeing" is significantly more pleasant than that of "crap, I just fell in the toilet."

3. If the toilet seat is gross, it is much easier to lift it with the toe of your shoe than it is to put it down with the toe of your shoe (unless you're particularly flexible).

4. Everyone needs it down at least sometimes. Only one gender ever needs it up.


Point conceeded.

Myself, I put seat and lid down before I flush. I don't care to brush my teeth with toilet water. :eek:

For me, right now, I have a nice heated seat so I always leave it down anyway because it's the only way to get warm in that particular room during the winter (Japanese houses have NO insulation and NO central heating).


I justhad this insane vision of someone crouched ona toilet seat, trying not to fall in, just to get warm.

I justhad this insane vision of someone crouched ona toilet seat, trying not to fall in, just to get warm.
Actually... that's not too far from the truth.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?

Probably from the very same place she found out that her having a headache right at bedtime was a direct result of my rude, inconsiderate and beastial behaivor by not taking care of her half of the toilet-seat swinging!

I actually leave it down because of my little girl. I dont want her to fall in. The wife well she is on her own. But only started paying attention when the little one was big enough to use it.

Do you want your women to fall in and come looking for vengeance?And I don't piss on the lid when she leaves it down. Your point?

Old Outhouse Rule: Look before you sit - unless you happen to like spider/snake bites. :eek:

I'm fairly good at aiming, so I've never felt the need to lift it up.

Liverbreath']Probably from the very same place she found out that her having a headache right at bedtime was a direct result of my rude, inconsiderate and beastial behaivor by not taking care of her half of the toilet-seat swinging!Hand her two asprin before bed (and before she claims "headache"...) :p :D

Because men CAN pee with the seat down if so inclined, and still do need it down to poo. Women are unable to use to use the toilet with the seat up for any excretionary capacity.

Because men CAN pee with the seat down if so inclined, and still do need it down to poo. Women are unable to use to use the toilet with the seat up for any excretionary capacity.Obviously you have never seen/used an Asian toilet....

However, some argue that the squat down toilets have their own advantages. By squatting down, women can strengthen their muscles around the hindquarters and this is said to contribute to prevention of urinary incontinence. Thus, some argue that it is probably the reason why this problem is found in lesser incidences than Western women. This is likely to remain controversial and a subject of much debate. http://www.worldtoilet.org/articles/articles_per_japanesetoilets.htm

Hand her two asprin before bed (and before she claims "headache"...) :p :D

hehe, nope, some battles are just not worth fighting. I happily complied, and silently altered the floor plan on, "her" new house. We now have two bathrooms in the master bedroom, and she has one less walk in.

Just a Curious Fact:

In Asia, some toilets are built in the ground instead of having a western style toilet bowl. It's basically a porcelain pot on the toilet floor. There are many pros and cons - and one of the cons is that a sleepy person could get their foot stuck there easily but there's no complaining about whether to leave the seat up or down.

Seat and Lid down, each time. My theory is irritate everyone. :D

Just a Curious Fact:

In Asia, some toilets are built in the ground instead of having a western style toilet bowl. It's basically a porcelain pot on the toilet floor. There are many pros and cons - and one of the cons is that a sleepy person could get their foot stuck there easily but there's no complaining about whether to leave the seat up or down.

I've experienced Asian toilets, and there are only cons to that arrangement. Those things make you wish you had a toilet seat to argue about.

Fool, you ever stagger into a dark bathroom in the middle of the night and plant your buttocks on a cold, probably urine-wet ring of porcelain with 30% more open diameter than the seat?
If you're lucky, it's just disgustingly uncomfortable. But usually your ass goes all the way into the toilet water. Hopefully, the selfish wretch who left the seat up remembered at least to flush, but anybody that insensitive is just as likely to be as clueless about the function of the lever on the tank as they are about the seat.
A man urinating with the seat down is just as bad, because even if you're a marksman, you are going to get urine on the seat, which is inconcsiderate both to women using the toilet and any man who has to take a dump.
All that aside, however, "chivalry" is in fact MORE than enough reason to put the seat down.
It's a very minor thing with very great consequences, like taking the trash out when asked instead of three days later, because whether or not a person does it is an excellent indicator of how considerate of others that person is overall.
I guess it boils down to whether or not one likes women and feels it's rewarding to do something nice for them.
I know I do.
Goesingthall

Logical reasoning through Mathematics.

All humans have at least two bathroom behaviors. The two main ones are eliminating liquid waste and eliminating solid waste.

Male urinating = seat up
Female urinating = seat down

Male defecating = seat down
Female defecating = seat down

Seat needs to be up 1 in four times, or 25% of the time... whilst it needs to be down 75% of the time.

This, of course, does not count in households inhabited solely by males. ;)

i've thought about this in the past, although i get round the problem by putting both seat and lid down. that way no-matter which gender uses the bog they both have to lift something up. its a little bit more effort on all accounts for that little bit extra equality ;)


anyone remember my political toilet seat analogy thread? :D

Putting the lid down ensures that various toiletries (toothbrushes, watches, etc) left in the bathroom don't inadvertantly go kersploosh, too.

Also: word of advice -- you want the lid down when you flush if your toothbrush is any closer than 6 ft from the commode. Airborne water particles and all that.

Logical reasoning through Mathematics.

All humans have at least two bathroom behaviors. The two main ones are eliminating liquid waste and eliminating solid waste.

Male urinating = seat up
Female urinating = seat down

Male defecating = seat down
Female defecating = seat down

Seat needs to be up 1 in four times, or 25% of the time... whilst it needs to be down 75% of the time.

This, of course, does not count in households inhabited solely by males. ;)


But ya know what? Male urinating can also be accomplished with the seat down. Option A: improve your goddamned aim - you've got a rod-shaped contraption, so use it. Option B: Sit down like we do, I'd argue it's more trouble to fuss with the seat than just sit down.

Even with improved aim, that's not always all that's necessary. Liquids do sometimes splash and splatter.

I just put both seat and lid down, it looks a lot better than a bowl of water. And everyone has to either pick up the lid, or pick up the lid and seat together, so we're all even ;)

Seat down, lid down. That's my philosophy.

A few reasons:

1. As has already been pointed out, the undersides of toilet seats (and the tops of toilet bowls) tend to be pretty ugly.
The inside of garbage bins is also pretty ugly, but it isn't such a classic complaint that females close the bins and males don't. This should be a personal decision based on the beauty of your particular toilet and the aethetics of the people involved.

My personal attitude is "if you think it's ugly, and I don't, then talk to me about it. Otherwise, by default it's your job to fix it."
I don't assume anyone has to plant flowers in my garden just because I think that's aethetically more pleasing. I also wouldn't kick up the flowers if my girlfriend planed them (and I knew she was conciously planting them)


2. As has also been pointed out, the experience of "crap, the seat's still down and I'm peeing" is significantly more pleasant than that of "crap, I just fell in the toilet."
Sure is. But the experience of "crap, the room got cold" is significantly more plesant than that of "crap, I just walked into a door". Yet, somehow, we feel people are responsible enough to turn on the lights and/or check if the door is open first.

Maybe I'm weird, but I look at things before I sit down.


3. If the toilet seat is gross, it is much easier to lift it with the toe of your shoe than it is to put it down with the toe of your shoe (unless you're particularly flexible).

Why is it gross? And if it *is* gross, why aren't you cleaning it, so it is non-gross. When it's non-gross you can then lift it. I'm sorry, if it's an emergency, you might need to make an executive decision as to what to do. Either way, isn't the problem "who left the seat gross" rather than "who left the seat up"?


4. Everyone needs it down at least sometimes. Only one gender ever needs it up.

Sure. So we're talking about efficiency? I've worked out that the most efficient method, which involves the least number of toilet-seat-moves is to leave it in whatever state you last used it. If you need to lower it, then leave it lowered. If you need to lift it, leave it lifted. Most of the time it will remain lowered (as both genders need it down sometimes)

Fool, you ever stagger into a dark bathroom in the middle of the night and plant your buttocks on a cold, probably urine-wet ring of porcelain with 30% more open diameter than the seat?

No. I look before I sit down.

You ever walked into a door? I've ripped the nail off my finger from that, which was much more painful and annoying than the discomfort of sitting on a toilet without a seat. But I accept it was my fault for not turning the light on, and assuming the door was either in the open or closed position, rather than halfway. I didn't blame my housemates. I can take responsibility for my own door-opening actions.


If you're lucky, it's just disgustingly uncomfortable. But usually your ass goes all the way into the toilet water. Hopefully, the selfish wretch who left the seat up remembered at least to flush, but anybody that insensitive is just as likely to be as clueless about the function of the lever on the tank as they are about the seat.

Why do we assume the person who left the seat up was selfish? I'd argue it's selfish to expect people to leave the toilet in the state YOU like. This is where talking to people and explaining your wants and needs is important. If nobody asks me to put the seat down, I will leave it up. It's more convenient for me, and they have never expressed a desire for it to be any other way.
That's not selfish.


A man urinating with the seat down is just as bad, because even if you're a marksman, you are going to get urine on the seat, which is inconcsiderate both to women using the toilet and any man who has to take a dump.

EXACTLY!
And if you're the sort of person who will potentially not check if the seat is down before sitting, can I assume that you're the sort of person who will potentially not check if the seat is up before urinating?

But since you lower the seat, it's probably second-nature to check it's up before urinating. Just as it should be second-nature to check it's down before sitting.


All that aside, however, "chivalry" is in fact MORE than enough reason to put the seat down.

No, it's not enough reason. I wouldn't put the seat down from chivalry, I'm a modern guy, I believe that women are able and independent enough to adjust the angle of a toilet seat without my masculine help.
I will, however, put it down if requested, from politeness.


It's a very minor thing with very great consequences, like taking the trash out when asked instead of three days later, because whether or not a person does it is an excellent indicator of how considerate of others that person is overall.

Not every action is an indication of how considerate you are. I'll leave the trash, because I'm forgetful, and out-of-sight-out-of-mind plays a large part in my thinking. There is no intention to be tardy with it. That is not inconsiderate, that is just unthinking. There's a difference.

On the other hand, I've spent nights at the hospital so that a friend didn't have to wait alone. I've got out of bed at 2 in the morning and driven 40 minutes each way to fetch a friend from a party because her designated driver had been drinking.

You're going to judge how considerate I am because I forget to take out the garbage, or I don't consider putting down the toilet seat to be my great contribution to chivalry?


I guess it boils down to whether or not one likes women and feels it's rewarding to do something nice for them.
I know I do.
Goesingthall

Lovely.
I like women, and feel it's rewarding to do something nice for them.

That's why, if either of the girls who live in my shared house ever request it of me, I'll put down the seat. Neither ever have.
I once had this discussion with my girlfriend, who laughed and said "I don't care, I'm able to put the seat down myself"

so....

if any girl tells me off for not putting down the toilet seat, without previously discussing what the default state of the toilet shall be, I'll let her have it.
She has just as much right to assume that the "right" thing is to put the seat down, as I have to assume that the "right" thing is that women should do the cooking.

If I'm chivalrous, it's because I choose to be, not because I'll get in trouble otherwise. Anyone who puts the seat down because they will get yelled at should perhaps consider how it would work if the roles were reversed.

The wife just said (and I quote): You men could all just learn to aim and solve everybodies problem.

i've thought about this in the past, although i get round the problem by putting both seat and lid down. that way no-matter which gender uses the bog they both have to lift something up. its a little bit more effort on all accounts for that little bit extra equality ;)


anyone remember my political toilet seat analogy thread? :D

*Pats on back*

Well done sir, you interpret the politics of the toilet the same way I do.

Have a doughnut.

The wife just said (and I quote): We men could all just learn to aim and solve everybodies problem.

minor hijack -- Hail Big Jim P! Congrats and good to see ya still haunting General. /end hijack

I agree with Pure Metal but i do not know his little story.

The wife just said (and I quote): You men could all just learn to aim and solve everybodies problem.
It's not that simple, depending how tall you are and how coherent the beam is, the cross section of the toilet bowl with the seat down might just not be enough! Also, depending on the urgency of the situation, careful aim may not be an option! In these situations, having the seat up can make a world of difference.

Of course I don't really think that missing the target is a big deal as long as you wipe up afterwards - you don't want to get urine on your skin because the ph isn't right and it can make you itch, but otherwise urine is quite sterile so it's not a major sanitary concern.

I'm forced by my dog's drinking desires to operate the whole lid/seat apparatice each time, both ways. After seeing some of the things he's eaten, I'm not too concerned about him drinking relatively clean toilet bowl water. I just don't want to take the chance that he'll lick my face afterwards.

Of course I don't really think that missing the target is a big deal as long as you wipe up afterwards - you don't want to get urine on your skin because the ph isn't right and it can make you itch, but otherwise urine is quite sterile so it's not a major sanitary concern.

EEEEWWW!!! First of all, how do you know so much about pee? Second (of all), I'm not so sure that it necessarily follows that sterility upon exit equals sanitary OKness.

I always leave it down, though I get complaints about piss on the seat...

EEEEWWW!!! First of all, how do you know so much about pee? Second (of all), I'm not so sure that it necessarily follows that sterility upon exit equals sanitary OKness.

Why wouldn't it? Urine is, indeed, essentially sterile upon exit. Obviously, if you leave it lying around at room temperature, microorganisms will get in it and make it icky (and stinky), but if it's wiped up promptly, what's the problem?

OK, I'm back. Decorum says I can't tell you where I just was, but I can say that I was fairly self conscious about the whole process.

Why wouldn't it? Urine is, indeed, essentially sterile upon exit. Obviously, if you leave it lying around at room temperature, microorganisms will get in it and make it icky (and stinky), but if it's wiped up promptly, what's the problem?

True, and I'll give you the point for the fact that there's nothing wrong with pee. I think my taken-aback-edness to Quorom's comment was the interesting defense of seat-peeing versus seat-lifting. I mean if I had the option of lifting the seat or wiping up pee, I'd probably choose lifting the seat.

If my aim was that far off that lifting the seat didn't help the situation, I'd probably just sit down and cut my losses.

EEEEWWW!!! First of all, how do you know so much about pee? Second (of all), I'm not so sure that it necessarily follows that sterility upon exit equals sanitary OKness.
Well, you're right that you don't want pools of liquid sitting around - that doesn't seem sanitary, but as I understand it, a pool of urine would breed less bacteria than a pool of tap water.

In any case, as long as you mop up the big splashes, I think the urine probably makes the seat cleaner and more sanitary by wiping off oils that come from peoples bums! That's just my guess though. :D

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?


Well, unless your toilet is sparling clean the that particular part of the toilet isn't always the cleanist. Men only put up the seat when they need to pee-any guy I knows actually sits when they are eh doing the other bit sits down. Its not very comfortable to sit on the toilet when the seat is up.
in short 3 out of 4 times the seats needs to be down, why leave it up?!

Well, unless your toilet is sparling clean the that particular part of the toilet isn't always the cleanist. Men only put up the seat when they need to pee-any guy I knows actually sits when they are eh doing the other bit sits down. Its not very comfortable to sit on the toilet when the seat is up.
in short 3 out of 4 times the seats needs to be down, why leave it up?!
Ahh, but you're working on the assumption that #1 and #2 happen with equal frequency. My own experience is that #1 happens about twice as often as #2 so the seat needs to be down only roughly 2 out of 3 times. Of course your point still stands, but it's important to be precise about these things! :D

Ahh, but you're working on the assumption that #1 and #2 happen with equal frequency. My own experience is that #1 happens about twice as often as #2 so the seat needs to be down only roughly 2 out of 3 times. Of course your point still stands, but it's important to be precise about these things! :D



Of course your point still stands
Terrible pun!

Women who wonder why men cant aim, have a dim knowledge of the penis.

Ladies...its not a firehose...those are always flexible when not in use.
The Johnson...can be a bit erm...rigid..and not always easily pointed in a downwards angle.

See: Morningwood.

Also, women cannot know of the infamous "Y" piss.

The trick guys, is the first time, your GF/wife complains about you leaving the seat up....make her pee in the yard...afterwards, she'll be grateful to be allowed to use a toilet.

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?

Simple. Nobody should put it up in the first place, you simply should sit down.

Heres how I look at it. You wome have arms and hands. (well MOST of yall do.) Theres soap and running water nearby. You put your own damn toilet seat down. Stop being a wimp and touch the toilet seat and put it down.

Considering the two facts that
A) Putting down a toilet seat is simply disgusting, especially if putting it up in the first place isn't necessary and
B) No man can aim, so it's not only the toilet seat that is going to be disgusting,
I still hold my opinion : SIT DOWN!

However, if for some reason you are physically not able to sit down, there's the simple rule that you leave a place the way you found it....

Why should men put the seat down?
Easy.
A rational human being (like you) would put the seat down if the benefit of putting the seat down outweigh the costs of putting the seat down.
If you feel that the cost (ie the force you use to actually put down the seat, as well as the opportunity cost foregone by not being able to do other things in those 5 seconds or so) outweighs the benefit (ie not being yelled at, being considered a nicer person), then you leave the seat up. Otherwise you put it down.

And that's the Economics of taking a Shit.

Really, anyone who complains about the position of the toilet seat is not worth the effort.

Also: word of advice -- you want the lid down when you flush if your toothbrush is any closer than 6 ft from the commode. Airborne water particles and all that.
eww.... great now i'm going to be paranoid about airborne particles floating around whenever i flush the toilet and breathe...


*Pats on back*

Well done sir, you interpret the politics of the toilet the same way I do.

Have a doughnut.
w00t!
*chows down*

I agree with Pure Metal but i do not know his little story.
it was an odd and semi-serious analogy relating the way in which one leaves the toilet after use (lid/seat up/down) to political standpoint. i think LP remembered it as being on par with TIN's most random posts :p
i could try and find the thread...

Easy.
A rational human being (like you) would put the seat down if the benefit of putting the seat down outweigh the costs of putting the seat down.
If you feel that the cost (ie the force you use to actually put down the seat, as well as the opportunity cost foregone by not being able to do other things in those 5 seconds or so) outweighs the benefit (ie not being yelled at, being considered a nicer person), then you leave the seat up. Otherwise you put it down.

And that's the Economics of taking a Shit.

Also known as reasons why some women just can't keep a man. Personally, I typically put the seat down AND close the lid because of the bacterial issues raised by Katganistan. However, I'm sure some female is going to be offended eventually (I live in a college with communal bathrooms, so it's hard to say) because she has to then lift the lid up.

Truth or not ladies?

At the end of the day I interpret it as such:

It is easier for the woman if the toilet seat is down. Therefore, from her perspective, it is easier to nag and bitch and moan and men until they put it down for her, than for her to put the seat down herself (all things being equal and disregarding toilets where the underside of the seat does not get clean - which IMHO, is sloppy housekeeping, which may or may not fall into the woman's domain). In other words: women nag men because it's easier for them. That's the economic reality.

Of course, me being gay defeats most of that, but as I said - I have a tendency to put both seat and lid down anyway.

As far as 'chivalry' goes, I consider that to have gone the way of the dodo once the concept of gender equality was brought in. If both genders are equal, the theory goes, then neither gender has a right to expect preferential treatment in any aspect of life. This generally holds for more social interactions, such as opening doors and picking up the tab, but I suppose it can apply to the toilet seat too.

I consider that in a shared bathroom, people have the right to expect:

1) A clean bowl
2) No piss on the toilet seat/surrounding environs

Regardless of the gender of the last user of the said toilet.

This does not, I hasten to add, prevent any man from *choosing* to put the toilet seat down out of politeness should he choose to. I simply state that I do not feel women have the right to automatically *expect* a man to do so. Were I straight and *not* a compulsive putter down of both seat and lid, I would probably put the lid down if asked by my girlfriend or significant other.

It is easier for the woman if the toilet seat is down. Therefore, from her perspective, it is easier to nag and bitch and moan and men until they put it down for her, than for her to put the seat down herself (all things being equal and disregarding toilets where the underside of the seat does not get clean - which IMHO, is sloppy housekeeping, which may or may not fall into the woman's domain). In other words: women nag men because it's easier for them. That's the economic reality.
That is a very good interpretation, because it raises Coase's Theorem and Property Rights in regard to this particular negative externality.
Taking a Leak is a form of market failure.
Dr. Becker (http://home.uchicago.edu/~gbecker/) would be so proud of me right now...

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?
In my home, we close the LID of the toilet when we are done. Both women and men do this. We do this because flushing with the lid open will sometimes throw particles of water and human waste out of the toilet bowl, and the idea of flinging Number Two all over our toothbrushes grosses us out.

As it is impossible to put down the lid without also putting down the seat, a man who raises the seat must lower it after he is finished. It's got nothing to do with "chivalry," since a man only has to lower the seat if he was the one who raised it in the first place. It's a simple case of returning the toilet to the condition in which you found it, much like how men must "chivalrously" flush the toilet after they use it instead of expecting a woman to flush it for him whenever she wants to use the toilet.

Yes, yes, yes... but is it really worth whingeing about? Meh, maybe I'm fortunate in having only dated / lived with girls who couldn't care less.

it's just a whole lot more pleasant to have the rim and the lid down, it looks nicer and stops your bathroom smelling quite so bad

it's just a whole lot more pleasant to have the rim and the lid down, it looks nicer and stops your bathroom smelling quite so bad

Yes - but the point is that women bitch about the SEAT, not the LID...

In general, anyway, so bathroom aesthetics doesn't really come into it.

Yes - but the point is that women bitch about the SEAT, not the LID...

In general, anyway, so bathroom aesthetics doesn't really come into it.
not all women do, i don't

I'm glad to see no one has yet used the "leave it like you found it" argument for putting the toilet seat down.

At my house there are six males and one female, so this argument falls apart in my case. Heck, I think my mothers used to even put it back up. Downside was that as a child, we would have to clean the bottom of the lid too.

At my house there are six males and one female, so this argument falls apart in my case. Heck, I think my mothers used to even put it back up. Downside was that as a child, we would have to clean the bottom of the lid too.
My aunt and uncle came up with a related solution to this issue: they decided that whoever cleaned the bathroom most recently gets to decide what position the seat gets left in. So if he cleaned the bathroom most recently then he gets to insist she put the seat UP when she is done, and he gets to leave it up when he is finished. And if she cleaned most recently, he's got to put the seat down for her.

Honestly. We need it up, you need it down. We (men) want it to be up--we put it up. You (women) want it to be down, what's stopping you from reaching out and putting it down?

Sure, it's the chivalrous thing to do, a nice favor to the other half of the population that most men still feel a certain degree of duty to give preferential treatment to... I mean, I'm the kind of guy who gives up his seat to a girl or a woman, holds a door, carries an umbrella, hauls a suitcase... flips the toilet seat... but the value or lack of value of chivalry isn't the question here.

It's this: where do women get the idea that it is rude, inconsidderate, and beastial for us to not take care of your half of the toilet-seat swinging for you?


Dude - I don't know about your house, but in mine it has nothing to do with the woman - In fact I'm usually the one yelling at her to put the cover down - so the dogs don't drink from the toilet.

I usually put the seat and cover down. That way, both genders have to do some work to get at the toilet. It's equal that way.

My aunt and uncle came up with a related solution to this issue: they decided that whoever cleaned the bathroom most recently gets to decide what position the seat gets left in. So if he cleaned the bathroom most recently then he gets to insist she put the seat UP when she is done, and he gets to leave it up when he is finished. And if she cleaned most recently, he's got to put the seat down for her.
But why even give a damn? yeesh.

I don't see what the big deal is it its not like it takes a great deal of time or effort to move the toilet seat

Why leave the toilet seat down? Chances are that the next user could be a man.

General question :

Why can't men simply sit down?

Several people raised the issue of women 'falling in' when the seat's up and it's dark and said that this is worse than peeing when the seat's down. Biologically speaking women have better night-vision because they have more rods (or is it cones?) in their eyeballs so really they should be helping us. :p

Really, anyone who complains about the position of the toilet seat is not worth the effort.
Quoted for truth.

I've never come across this problem., but I do think it's a bit whiny. I liked the point earlier about the door. If you aren't watching and you run into it, don't blame your spouse for closing it. Feminists claim that women have equal rights, but they seem to want to be able to keep their benefits. Change your toilet lid by yourself, I don't complain for the computer to be logged on to my account in case I go on.

Because then we wouldn't be men!

Ah yes.... erm... no, doesn't make sense, somehow :confused:

General question :

Why can't men simply sit down?
Because then we wouldn't be men!

But why even give a damn? yeesh.
Different things matter to different people. Some people end up fighting over toilet seats. My parents never have, but they do fight over dirty socks and whether to place them on the floor or in a hamper...no other dirty laundry is an issue, mind you, just the socks. My lover and I have no issues with our toilet seat, but we do squabble over the correct place to store bread (breadbox or fridge). Pretty much all sane couples end up having some little nit-picky long-running tug-o-wars over something or another.

General question : Why can't men simply sit down?

Please pardon the euphamisims here, but:

Most of us don't think shoving our wankers under the rim to pee is particularly fun. It may work for tots, but I'm a big boy now and it just don't fit good unless you have a commercial "long" john with split front seat to sit on. :eek:

If you weren't aware, men don't have to pee when they poo, so even then we can keep johnny safe from unplesant under-seat growths in a small round residential bowl.

Like I said, "Old outhouse rule: Unless you like spider/snake bites, look before you sit." :p

I've often wondered why (some) women make such a big deal out of leaving the toilet seat up. I mean, do they creep into the lav backwards, and then fall in, like some bizarre parody of a scene from Alien?

As I posted in #71, there is simply a question regarding property rights.

Unless you want to make a law that will alienate 50% of the population, you have to answer this question:
Does the Woman have the right to maximise her Utility at expense of the man, or does the Man have the right to maximise his Utility at the expense of the Woman?

And I actually do sit down. I openly admit it - brainwashing by my mum when I was a wee ( :D ) boy did the job.

Maybe the seat should be left at a 45 degree angle? :p