NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading an artical on the fight Spain has been giving over Gibraltar. Which is a colony of Britian. Who do you think should own it?

I was reading an artical on the fight Spain has been giving over Gibraltar. Which is a colony of Britian. Who do you think should own it?

Britain since the inhabitants of the island want to remain British

97% of people from Gibraltar want to be British.

I was reading an artical on the fight Spain has been giving over Gibraltar. Which is a colony of Britian. Who do you think should own it?

Dutch porn barons. I'd like to see those ex-pat Little Englanders deal with pornography, marijuana and prostitution and still keep their insane tea and crumpet fetishizing going.

97% of people from Gibraltar want to be British.

Exactly

Who should own Gibraltar?
England
Spain

England != UK

England != UK

Yeah I dont think we'll ever lose that image in the UK

I was reading an artical on the fight Spain has been giving over Gibraltar. Which is a colony of Britian. Who do you think should own it?Whoever Gibraltar want to govern them, and at present that is very definitely Britain. Not necessarily England (there are three countries in Britain, and four in the UK).

97% of people from Gibraltar want to be British.

And there ends the lesson.

When Spain is ready to give Ceuta, Melilla, and all those tiny islands off the African coast back to Morocco, then they can bring up the matter of Gibraltar.

EDIT: No, not the Canary Islands, Morocco has never occupied those, and they aren't tiny.

I'll say England, but it actually belongs to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland!

The people want to be a part of the UK, so they should stay a part of the UK. Period.

I agree, UK should remain over Gibraltar.

Having visted the tiny colony, and gotten to know the people. The vast majority want to remain British. And it is their call. And I support their decision.

Spain should have no say in the matter,

It comes down to what the Locals want, but if I had to pick, I'd give it back to the Spaniards. What does Britain need it for?

It comes down to what the Locals want, but if I had to pick, I'd give it back to the Spaniards. What does Britain need it for?
Control of the Mediterannean - Atlantic passage probably.

97% of people from Gibraltar want to be British.

I think the majority want's to stay UK, don't forget they receive lot's of cash from the UK (OK Spain would help them to after a give back to the original country). Last time it was not 97% but somewher in the 60% that wanted to stay UK. But the poll was taken in the heat of the US-UK invasion of Iraq.

Spain should have no say in the matter,
The UK neither

It comes down to what the Locals want, but if I had to pick, I'd give it back to the Spaniards. What does Britain need it for?

In which case you could argue, why do the Spanish want it back?

It should stay with Britain. The inhabitants want that to be the case. Spain's refusal to negotiate with the Moroccans over Ceuta and Melila, combined with the claims for Gibraltar is just hypocrisy.

In which case you could argue, why do the Spanish want it back?
Geography maybe?

Geography maybe?

That's probable but a potentially dangerous pretext. Suppose every country took the attitude that "geographically its ours so we should have it"?

That's probable but a potentially dangerous pretext. Suppose every country took the attitude that "geographically its ours so we should have it"?
:D
Like Ireland for example?

We need it as a place to repair our damaged nuclear ships now that we let those Indian types go, obviously! I don't think that Gibraltar is a serious geopolitical/military issue these days but there seems to still be a prestige over it - There are generations in both the UK and Spain that remember the arguments over the territory between the country & therefore would see control/continued control as a victory and the all-important votes/prestige.

I am a leftie democcrat type so I would be inclined to believe that if they don't want to live in Spain then they shouldn't have to. But equally, I think that if you took a referendum in the UK (sure the age bias would be obvious) I really don't think that we would want them to be our responsibility either - They contribute less than nothing & antagonise a serious country in our Regional sphere. Give them self-determination.

On a final point, I spent 2 days there & hated it. I wanted to be on holiday in a different culture and so on, but the atmosphere seemed almost film-esque: Like they were (rebel Soviets who had seen one Carry On film about "Good old flag waving Britain" and taken it to extremes just to prove how committed they were.
Come on, if you like England that much, then come & live here. If you want the Queen that much, then please take Her off our hands?

:D
Like Ireland for example?

;)


They contribute less than nothing & antagonise a serious country in our Regional sphere.


They also cost us nothing.

Gilbraltar (and Northern Ireland for that matter!) is of no real use to Britain these days, and we don't really want it. It's just that although it'd be far easier to just hand it back over to Spain, the local population's desire should be respected...

Gilbraltar (and Northern Ireland for that matter!) is of no real use to Britain these days, and we don't really want it. It's just that although it'd be far easier to just hand it back over to Spain, the local population's desire should be respected...

God I hate the attitude that you should just cut off parts of the country that arent doing perfectly.

Listen guys.
If you want to keep Gibraltar and Northern Ireland, then we want Pommern, Posen and Eastern Prussia back. Danzig, Königsberg, Breslau, the whole deal.

Our claims have exactly the same moral validity.

God I hate the attitude that you should just cut off parts of the country that arent doing perfectly.

Why stop at Gibraltar and Ulster? Scotland, Wales, Warwickshire?

Gilbraltar (and Northern Ireland for that matter!) is of no real use to Britain these days, and we don't really want it. It's just that although it'd be far easier to just hand it back over to Spain, the local population's desire should be respected...
Well, apart from NI having the best education system in the UK, and producing a disproportinately high number of doctors, teachers, other professionals and artists, musicians etc.

Why stop at Gibraltar and Ulster? Scotland, Wales, Warwickshire?

Yeah exactly. One minute you're all for colonising the world, the next you want to get rid of everything because you're not getting loads out of it

Listen guys.
If you want to keep Gibraltar and Northern Ireland, then we want Pommern, Posen and Eastern Prussia back. Danzig, Königsberg, Breslau, the whole deal.

Our claims have exactly the same moral validity.
Well, what country do the majority of people in those areas want to be in?

Not forgetting that they were lost through war....these would be willingly given up during peace.

Listen guys.
If you want to keep Gibraltar and Northern Ireland, then we want Pommern, Posen and Eastern Prussia back. Danzig, Königsberg, Breslau, the whole deal.

Our claims have exactly the same moral validity.

My memory's a little hazy here but didn't you take that attitude once or twice before? :rolleyes:

Btw how about Alsace Lorraine?

Btw how about Alsace Lorraine?
Oh yeah! That too!

And if you really want to go down the road, then I can justify such a ridiculous claim too, just as well as you guys could with Gibraltar or NI.

My memory's a little hazy here but didn't you take that attitude once or twice before? :rolleyes:

Btw how about Alsace Lorraine?
George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.
Blackadder: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.

George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.
Blackadder: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.

A bit of simplification, but very amusing nonetheless. :)

I don't get this- what GAIN does Britain get by keeping that rock? It makes no political sense.

I don't get this- what GAIN does Britain get by keeping that rock? It makes no political sense.
It's strategic.

I don't get this- what GAIN does Britain get by keeping that rock? It makes no political sense.

well it give the U.K a say in the Mediterranean

if you would of asked that about N.I it would be because they are and want to be U.K citizens and thus we can never desert them no matter how much N.I is a headache

It's strategic.
But for what? The Atlantic? Britain HAS the Atlantic.
The Med? What use is the Med to them?
The Suez? This ain't the old days any more.

And its not as if Spain would suddenly turn around and cut Britain off from the Straits.

Out of sight, out of mind appears to be the watchword.

But for what? The Atlantic? Britain HAS the Atlantic.
The Med? What use is the Med to them?
The Suez? This ain't the old days any more.

And its not as if Spain would suddenly turn around and cut Britain off from the Straits.

Out of sight, out of mind appears to be the watchword.
Well, ok, it was strategic. That's why they wanted it in the first place. Now it's still a bit, but nothing like it was.

The main reason now is, as with NI, the majority of people there want to remain British.

You know, after the Battle of Agincourt, Henry V became the heir to the King of France and married the King of France's daughter. Henry died but his son, Henry VI, lived on to be King of France. However the French took advantage of the Wars of the Roses and so took back most of France. Calasis was lost in the 1550s.

However all British monarchs up until George III were be crowned as the King of France.

So, as long as we are in the business of reviving old borders, can we have France back? I say we have a referndum in France to see if they want to become a part of Britain.

:)

Well, ok, it was strategic. That's why they wanted it in the first place. Now it's still a bit, but nothing like it was.

The main reason now is, as with NI, the majority of people there want to remain British.

Yeah, i can see the justification for NI for sure- but Gibralter.... not exactly an economic powerhouse! It seems to merely run on its historical tradition of 'being British because its not Spanish'. The people have no pull in London, whereas NI do. is there any representative from there in London by the by?

Yeah, i can see the justification for NI for sure- but Gibralter.... not exactly an economic powerhouse! It seems to merely run on its historical tradition of 'being British because its not Spanish'. The people have no pull in London, whereas NI do. is there any representative from there in London by the by?
Don't think so...but the UK just says "let the people decide", which is democracy. And the people say stay British, so the UK will keep and defend it until they say "let's be Spanish".

Don't think so...but the UK just says "let the people decide", which is democracy. And the people say stay British, so the UK will keep and defend it until they say "let's be Spanish".
Fair enough.
;)

If Spain gets Gibraltar, then we Canadians should get Alaska and Greenland too.

What the hell are you all blabbering about? Gibraltar, Andalucie, and Morocco belong to Chellis!

(ten points for whoever remembers this)

Well, what country do the majority of people in those areas want to be in?

Not forgetting that they were lost through war....these would be willingly given up during peace.

Gibraltar to was lost to war. The people are now in favor of the UK but were not allways (until the late 1970's thety preferd to be Spanish, even with Franco).

Btw how about Alsace Lorraine?

What a Roastbeef Bush-joke you are :rolleyes: , people there are 100% for France, even the guys in my family that speak Alsacian are pro France.

You are all wrong!!!! I SHOULD OWN GIBRALTAR FOR GOD'S SAKE.

What a Roastbeef Bush-joke you are :rolleyes: , people there are 100% for France, even the guys in my family that speak Alsacian are pro France.

But it hasn't always been that way. While the region has been leaning more towards France than Germany for almost a century and a half (regardless of what Germans say, there was a reason it was given so much autonomy unlike say Schleswig or Bavaria), there are still a few in there who wish to return to Germany.

But it hasn't always been that way. While the region has been leaning more towards France than Germany for almost a century and a half (regardless of what Germans say, there was a reason it was given so much autonomy unlike say Schleswig or Bavaria), there are still a few in there who wish to return to Germany.

Like some Germans, Americans who wish to be French.One word:marginal.

BTW, my cousins even follow Alatian in school as first language now, don't think they have the same freedom with the French language (as a first language again like most of their time in history was) in Lousiana, heard that lot of people demand it.

I don't get this- what GAIN does Britain get by keeping that rock? It makes no political sense.

He who controls Gibraltar, controls the fastest entrance, and exclusive Atlantic access into the Mediterranean. Making such positioning extremely strategic.

Gibraltar, has many American and British military assets ported in Gibraltar; as well as a slew of hidden military assets horded away inside secret caverns under "The Rock", including aircraft, tanks, missiles and bombs. It's, for all purposes, the UK's "NORAD".

Given this, plus a majority populations desire to remain under the blanket of the United Kingdom; they should remain such.

The UK likes keeping it for strategic importance.

Spain wants it for strategic importance.

The UK's strategic importance + the locals will to remain such... Means the UK should have it.

Spain's want of strategic importance + wanting it against the will of the local populace.... Means they shouldn't