NationStates Jolt Archive

FORT A.P. HILL, Va., July 31 - President George W. Bush delivered a pep talk on Sunday to thousands of Boy Scouts, urging them not to waver after four tragic deaths and a rash of heat-related illnesses cast a pall over their camping "Jamboree."

"The men you lost were models of good citizenship ... And you Scouts honor them by living up to the ideals of the scouting they served," Bush told an estimated crowd of 50,000 Boy Scouts, Scout leaders and visitors.

The president twice postponed his visit to the Scout gathering, which at times had the air of a U.S. Army recruitment drive.

Men in black "Army" T-shirts coached young boys to chant "OO-rah" like soldiers. A giant "ARMY" hot-air balloon bobbed overhead.

Bush said the Boy Scouts "understand that freedom must be defended," and touted what he called the "armies of liberation." The Army has fallen behind its recruiting goals amid the Iraq war.

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/jamboree.jpg
--reuters

FORT A.P. HILL, Va., July 31 - President George W. Bush delivered a pep talk on Sunday to thousands of Boy Scouts, urging them not to waver after four tragic deaths and a rash of heat-related illnesses cast a pall over their camping "Jamboree."

"The men you lost were models of good citizenship ... And you Scouts honor them by living up to the ideals of the scouting they served," Bush told an estimated crowd of 50,000 Boy Scouts, Scout leaders and visitors.

The president twice postponed his visit to the Scout gathering, which at times had the air of a U.S. Army recruitment drive.

Men in black "Army" T-shirts coached young boys to chant "OO-rah" like soldiers. A giant "ARMY" hot-air balloon bobbed overhead.

Bush said the Boy Scouts "understand that freedom must be defended," and touted what he called the "armies of liberation." The Army has fallen behind its recruiting goals amid the Iraq war.

http://www.antiwar.com/photos/jamboree.jpg
--reuters

WHAT!!! He did WHAT!?! :mad:

The BSA is not his soldier pool!

Why are you surprised?

The Scouts have always been highly desired by the military.

When I became an Eagle Scout; I remember getting a few recruitment calls.....

The Scouts have always been highly desired by the military.

When I became an Eagle Scout; I remember getting a few recruitment calls.....Children should not be targeted by the Recruiters...

tell you kids to be aware on their way to school...tell them to be aware of the smiling man on the brand new silver Mercedes asking you to call him(cos he might want you to embrace his sex and drugs life)...and also tell them to be aware of the smiling man on the brand new black Humpvee asking you to call him(cos he might want you to embrace his wars and death life).

I know...they are charming...and they are good salesmen...still ask your parents and family advice.

Why are you surprised?

The Scouts have always been highly desired by the military.

When I became an Eagle Scout; I remember getting a few recruitment calls.....

I know I shouldn't be surprised. I'm just angry that he'd use the deaths at the Jamboree to try and recruit young people to his "cause".

im in scouts so not cool and he was using subliminasl messages yvan eht nioj

I know I shouldn't be surprised. I'm just angry that he'd use the deaths at the Jamboree to try and recruit young people to his "cause".

doubtless many of them will join the call of freedom... Bush didn't need to advertise it.

WHAT!!! He did WHAT!?! :mad:

The BSA is not his soldier pool!

The Scouts have always been quasi-military: uniforms, saluting, gun practice, etc. That was part of their appeal when I was a scout. In fact, our Scoutmaster was also a lieutenant in the Army Corps of Engineers. He often came to our weekly meetings in his army uniform. The Scouts probably had a lot to do with me joining the Air Force right out of high school.

Well...at least Singapore is different, we don't go around recruiting Boy Scouts here for the army....but then considering everyone has to serve the army when they reach 21...it makes no difference.


But its disgraceful to see Bush using that to recruit Boy Scouts....maybe his army is running out.....

Well...at least Singapore is different, we don't go around recruiting Boy Scouts here for the army....but then considering everyone has to serve the army when they reach 21...it makes no difference.


But its disgraceful to see Bush using that to recruit Boy Scouts....maybe his army is running out.....

Maybe we can threaten scouts with a good caning if they don't join the army. ;)

Maybe we can threaten scouts with a good caning if they don't join the army. ;)caning is reserved for Vandals and other criminals.. and I think they have a minimum age like 13 or something...

either way Its their country...they can choose how to enforce their laws...

Maybe we can threaten scouts with a good caning if they don't join the army. ;)


LOL.....Don't give them ideas.

Hitler Youth was Hitlers young, private pool of future soldiers, maybe Bush wants to make the Bush You- I mean, Boy Scouts, be his fanatical soldiers for when he declares himself dictator. And then they can finally ditch the Fluer de Lis (sp?) and start using the Death's Head emblem.

Hitler Youth was Hitlers young, private pool of future soldiers, maybe Bush wants to make the Bush You- I mean, Boy Scouts, be his fanatical soldiers for when he declares himself dictator. And then they can finally ditch the Fluer de Lis (sp?) and start using the Death's Head emblem.


You may want to lay off of that bong for a while!

The Scouts Jamboree is partially funded by the military budget because it IS a recruiting situation. All scout activities sponsored and paid for by the military (including the on base hosting of activities) are recruiting activities.

All of this was planned long before the tragic events occurred. There is nothing wrong with it.

Hitler Youth was Hitlers young, private pool of future soldiers, maybe Bush wants to make the Bush You- I mean, Boy Scouts, be his fanatical soldiers for when he declares himself dictator. And then they can finally ditch the Fluer de Lis (sp?) and start using the Death's Head emblem.


AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA...that is just so wrong.

May I have an actual link to this story please because I bet there is more to this story than meets the eye.

May I have an actual link to this story please because I bet there is more to this story than meets the eye.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N31457321.htm

WHAT!!! He did WHAT!?! :mad:

The BSA is not his soldier pool!

Oh yeah? His lips make noises like it is. Or will be.

Oh yeah? His lips make noises like it is. Or will be.


Well it won't be his personally but whomever in his family or close personal circle of business partners are able to purchase a 4 to 8 year stay in the White House next.

The army teaching the chants is normal... they [military] often help the scouts with skills. Wilderness Survival, Hiking, Camping, Rifle/Shotgun, First Aid, Emergency Prepardness... the Troop I was in had alot of "Military" personnel helping with events, and guess what, most members of my troop didn't enter the military.

The only difference on this Jamboree and past ones that I went to was the tragic deaths and the Presidential Speech.

In fact, our Scoutmaster was also a lieutenant in the Army Corps of Engineers. He often came to our weekly meetings in his army uniform. The Scouts probably had a lot to do with me joining the Air Force right out of high school.they probably had a lot to do with you joining the military...indeed.

I know I shouldn't be surprised. I'm just angry that he'd use the deaths at the Jamboree to try and recruit young people to his "cause".

Er... use the deaths at the Jamboree? Do you really think that he only decided to recruit after the disaster?

To the extreme leftists on this forum: Get over your paranoia. We're not turning the US into a theocracy or a military state. You've lost your entertainment value, now you're just annoying us.

you're just annoying us.good :D

Hitler Youth was Hitlers young, private pool of future soldiers, maybe Bush wants to make the Bush You- I mean, Boy Scouts, be his fanatical soldiers for when he declares himself dictator. And then they can finally ditch the Fluer de Lis (sp?) and start using the Death's Head emblem.That is a pretty crappy comparison, considering that after he was in power, Hitler made attending the HJ, BDM, and Pimpfen MANDATORY. You didn't have a choice. And the Death's Head was only worn by the SS-Concentration Camp guards or German Hussars from before the World Wars.

Anyway, the BSA officially is non-military. There's military style saluting, flag ceremonies, uniforms, why even the red and white troop flags resemble the banners held aloft by US Cavalry. But to prove that it's not military, summer camps prohibit wearing camouflage clothing. :D (Which is incredibly pointless in Europe since about 60-80% of the boy scouts are military dependents)

To the extreme leftists on this forum: Get over your paranoia. We're not turning the US into a theocracy or a military state. You've lost your entertainment value, now you're just annoying us.


Then I'd say it's Miller Time! :D

To the extreme leftists on this forum: Get over your paranoia. We're not turning the US into a theocracy or a military state. You've lost your entertainment value, now you're just annoying us.
Ah, Neo R, always around for a good laugh...:D

Well it won't be his personally but whomever in his family or close personal circle of business partners are able to purchase a 4 to 8 year stay in the White House next.


Maybe Cheney, then at least Helen Thomas whould finally do us all a favor and check out from sucking on a revolver. :p

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N31457321.htm

ok now the actual reuter article.

To the extreme leftists on this forum: Get over your paranoia. We're not turning the US into a theocracy or a military state. You've lost your entertainment value, now you're just annoying us.
Good maybe you will realize we are not about to have our rights trampled by you forcing your morals and beliefs on us

To the extreme leftists on this forum: Get over your paranoia. We're not turning the US into a theocracy or a military state. You've lost your entertainment value, now you're just annoying us.

Really? We're annoying you? I'm so sorry.

And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't following me. When our glorious leader mentions his mission from God, when we consider the Ten Commandments appropriate material to sit in our supposedly non-religious courthouses, when a judge can issue an order that a father not expose his child to "non mainstream religions," when the US is one of the last remaining Western nations where the right to an abortion is seriously challenged, when 43 out of 43 of the US's presidents have been open Christians, with 42 of them being Protestant, when we won't support AIDS initiatives that support condoms over abstinence, when we fill our schools with abstinence only crap instead of actual sex education, when Janet Jackson showing her breast on national television can turn the nation upside-down, when it's A-Okay for a game to be about killling and robbing people but if you have sex you are an Adult Only game practically banned from stores, when you have a famous conservative pundit get on NATIONAL TELEVISION and say of the Middle East "We should invade their countries and convert their people to Christianity," when moralistic censorship is around every corner, when the nation sees no problem with denying gays equal rights as straights, then we'll have theocracy.

Oh wait... :rolleyes:

Oh wait... :rolleyes:Nah. Theocracy would be when they don't bother letting us elect the Grand Poobah...

Good maybe you will realize we are not about to have our rights trampled by you forcing your morals and beliefs on us

i don't consider myself a follower of bush and even _I_ think this is a bit of a stretch to say that boy scouts is a recruiting tool for the military.

i don't consider myself a follower of bush and even _I_ think this is a bit of a stretch to say that boy scouts is a recruiting tool for the military.It's not, but the military certainly likes having scouts enter it's services. There's a couple incentives I heard of...

Really? We're annoying you? I'm so sorry.

And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't following me. When our glorious leader mentions his mission from God, when we consider the Ten Commandments appropriate material to sit in our supposedly non-religious courthouses, when a judge can issue an order that a father not expose his child to "non mainstream religions," when the US is one of the last remaining Western nations where the right to an abortion is seriously challenged, when 43 out of 43 of the US's presidents have been open Christians, with 42 of them being Protestant, when we won't support AIDS initiatives that support condoms over abstinence, when we fill our schools with abstinence only crap instead of actual sex education, when Janet Jackson showing her breast on national television can turn the nation upside-down, when it's A-Okay for a game to be about killling and robbing people but if you have sex you are an Adult Only game practically banned from stores, when you have a famous conservative pundit get on NATIONAL TELEVISION and say of the Middle East "We should invade their countries and convert their people to Christianity," when moralistic censorship is around every corner, when the nation sees no problem with denying gays equal rights as straights, then we'll have theocracy.

Oh wait... :rolleyes:

Well, if this is what it takes to make a theocracy, what are you complaining about? Seems to me we've had a theocracy all along. We certainly haven't gotten any more conservative since 1776.

Its funny how terrified and bitter people with no faith at all are so threatened by people that do have faith.

i don't consider myself a follower of bush and even _I_ think this is a bit of a stretch to say that boy scouts is a recruiting tool for the military.

You know how it all started?

Robert Baden-Powell with his book 'scouting for boys'. Scouting was a military term for spying out the land and the enemy. Reconnisance in other words. All the skill it teaches - hiking, pioneering, mapreading, stealth, general survival tecniques, shooting (except the pansy UK ones these days, it sucks). All military skill.

I go to an Air Scout group and we learn all that plus how to fly an aircraft (I get to go parachuting with them too, rockage).

It's designed to provide the army with skilled recruits.

Its funny how terrified and bitter people with no faith at all are so threatened by people that do have faith.

Given that they dislike the idea of the constitution being pissed on...

yvan eht nioj

nice simpsons reference there :D

To the extreme leftists on this forum: Get over your paranoia. We're not turning the US into a theocracy or a military state. You've lost your entertainment value, now you're just annoying us.

That's ok sweetie,

If we can annoy you, then we did our job.

Well then again, there isn't much effort to do that. :D

Given that they dislike the idea of the constitution being pissed on...


continue...

That's ok sweetie,

If we can annoy you, then we did our job.

Well then again, there isn't much effort to do that. :D


You need to get a better job then. You arent challenging yourself anymore.

It's designed to provide the army with skilled recruits.

It's a little more then just that.

continue...Guys, knock it off or start a new thread. This is about the Shrub, scouting, and army recruitment, not Neo R and theocracies.

You need to get a better job then. You arent challenging yourself anymore.

True, then again I might find angry women interesting. ;)

Guys, knock it off or start a new thread. This is about the Shrub, scouting, and army recruitment, not Neo R and theocracies.


what're you, Laemod now?

You're making a serious statement and calling President Bush a name?

It's not, but the military certainly likes having scouts enter it's services. There's a couple incentives I heard of...

Even more incentives if you join after achieving a certain rank in Civil Air Patrol. Not to mention a promotion after basic training at the same time :D

what're you, Laemod now?

You're making a serious statement and calling President Bush a name?Meh, how could I make a serious statement about him. But honestly, it's kind of disappointing for this thread to deteriorate like this. :(

Even more incentives if you join after achieving a certain rank in Civil Air Patrol. Not to mention a promotion after basic training at the same time :DYou just can't get enough CAP, can you? :p

That is a pretty crappy comparison, considering that after he was in power, Hitler made attending the HJ, BDM, and Pimpfen MANDATORY. You didn't have a choice. And the Death's Head was only worn by the SS-Concentration Camp guards or German Hussars from before the World Wars.

Anyway, the BSA officially is non-military. There's military style saluting, flag ceremonies, uniforms, why even the red and white troop flags resemble the banners held aloft by US Cavalry. But to prove that it's not military, summer camps prohibit wearing camouflage clothing. :D (Which is incredibly pointless in Europe since about 60-80% of the boy scouts are military dependents)

It is supposed to be a crappy comparison. Seriously.

Meh, how could I make a serious statement about him. But honestly, it's kind of disappointing for this thread to deteriorate like this. :(

It was a pathetic turd to begin with.

It was a pathetic turd to begin with.I guess we'll never know what it could have developed into... :p

You just can't get enough CAP, can you? :p

Well.... I was a Cadel Lieutenant Colonel in the program! Not including all the positions I've held in the program so no I can't :D

Gotta plug it when I can :)

I wonder what this says about Bush's self-image, and his image presentation management. Like the now infamous aircraft carrier visit, the recent Fort Bragg visit and the troop visits in Iraq on holidays, the military rally represents one of Bush's favorite venues.

The office of the president is itself filled with inconsistency, a civilian military leader. Most of our presidents have served in the military before gaining office, military credentials are seen as almost essential to the office.

Yet at the same time, dressing in military uniform while in office is frowned upon. Bush earlier made that mistake when he showed up on the deck of the carrier in a military flight suit. Presidents wear civilian clothes, not military fatigues, after the euphoria of the "mission acomplished" speech had passed, questions were raised about why the president was photographed wearing a military uniform earlier that day.

Its not quite a seperation of powers issue, more like a seperation of duties and mindset. It makes people uncomfortable to think that they have a military junta in power. Wartime savvy is seen as good, warlike mindset is negotiable, but presidents don't do well when posing for the camera in uniform. Think about Dukakis, Kerry's "Reporting for duty" speech, and such.

The point is this; presidents walk a fine line between being supportive and understanding of our nations military situation, and using the military as their vehical to power. They are the highest military authority in our army, but at the same time they ARE civilians.

What people are commenting about in this thread is that the line may have been crossed again by George W. Bush in "using the Scout Jamboree to install a nationalistic fervor in children and promoting militirism." However innocent his actions may seem to some, others find his methods disturbing, this conversation (flamefest) speaks to that.

I guess we'll never know what it could have developed into... :p

I've seen enough of OceanDrive's threads in my time to tell you that they don't develop into anything. They just kind of sit on the first page until people run out of flaws to point out in his reasoning. That can take quite awhile, though.

I've seen enough of OceanDrive's threads in my time to tell you that they don't develop into anything. They just kind of sit on the first page until people run out of flaws to point out in his reasoning. That can take quite awhile, though.Well, he did pick on a pretty interesting issue. The BSA officially proclaims itself as a non-military organization. This kind of event puts that into question.

May I have an actual link to this story please because I bet there is more to this story than meets the eye.sooo...

did you find what you were looking for? :D

Some of you guys see a conspiracy under every rock. Any idea how many speeches the guy gives in a year? It is custom to show sympathy in the event of a disaster, a trip to the site is a bonus if schedule permits. It is custom to get some political points by showing compassion. Every leader does it. Even European ones.

It's normal, the world won't end. As Freud said, "sometimes a penis is just a penis". It's just a speech. Implications of Hitler Youth are just hysteria, get a life.

Well, he did pick on a pretty interesting issue. The BSA officially proclaims itself as a non-military organization. This kind of event puts that into question.True.

BTW...don't pay attention to CopiosaScotia and CarnivorousLickers they don't have good enough debate skills...so they are just Trolling around and Kidnapping the Thread...

They are not worted of our time.

*shrug*

I personally would prefer soldiers in our army that were boy scouts. I was in cub scouts once. Real fucking annoying. Though I can see how some things they taught us would be better used in the army.

You know what I just found interesting?

Look at this statement, It's a fantastic sight to look out on more than 30,000 young men wearing the uniform of the Boy Scouts. then look at this picture: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/images/20050731_p073105pm-0224jpg-515h.html

it reminds me soooo much of this (http://faculty-web.at.northwestern.edu/art-history/werckmeister/April_6_1999/Nuremberg1.jpg)

You know how it all started?

Robert Baden-Powell with his book 'scouting for boys'. Scouting was a military term for spying out the land and the enemy. Reconnisance in other words. All the skill it teaches - hiking, pioneering, mapreading, stealth, general survival tecniques, shooting (except the pansy UK ones these days, it sucks). All military skill.

I go to an Air Scout group and we learn all that plus how to fly an aircraft (I get to go parachuting with them too, rockage).

It's designed to provide the army with skilled recruits.


The last thing Baden-Powell wanted was to recruit people into the military. At the time he set up the Scouts, most European countries already had paramilitary youth organizations (often run with the help of the military) which promoted nationalism and militarism. Baden-Powell copied some of the features of these groups (e.g. uniforms, salutes and camping trips) because he knew that they were what appealed to boys but he tried to combine them with a philosophy that was internationalist and peaceful. He must be turning in his grave now.

You know what I just found interesting?

Look at this statement, then look at this picture: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/images/20050731_p073105pm-0224jpg-515h.html

it reminds me soooo much of this (http://faculty-web.at.northwestern.edu/art-history/werckmeister/April_6_1999/Nuremberg1.jpg)

....And they thought I was ridiculous when I made that comparison earlier! Thanks for putting in the photos, it adds credibility! Good job!

You know what I just found interesting?

Look at this statement, then look at this picture: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/images/20050731_p073105pm-0224jpg-515h.html

it reminds me soooo much of this (http://faculty-web.at.northwestern.edu/art-history/werckmeister/April_6_1999/Nuremberg1.jpg)

This is the part where I wonder if you've ever been to a rock concert.

This is the part where I wonder if you've ever been to a rock concert.


No-you and I arent skilled enough debaters to continue on this turd. Uh-thread.

If we happened to agree with the original poster and toadies, however, we'd all be backslapping buddies now, regardless of our skills.

Let not pretend skill to debate in here is a measure of one's worth, on the OP scale. Its really wether or not you fall in step with his views.
If you dont, there is no tolerance what so ever.

And then, just read the original post. Its a deliberate deception.

Let not pretend skill to debate in here is a measure of one's worth, on the OP scale. Its really wether or not you fall in step with his views.
If you dont, there is no tolerance what so ever.

OP is original poster, right? I keep seeing the abbreviation, but I can't say I'm certain of what it means.

OP is original poster, right? I keep seeing the abbreviation, but I can't say I'm certain of what it means.

Yes. OP means Original Poster.

OP is original poster, right? I keep seeing the abbreviation, but I can't say I'm certain of what it means.


Yes sir-sorry about that. See ? We lack all the proper skills to post our opinions here!! Once we fall in step and agree everything President Bush does is an evil selfish conspiracy, we will have arrived and be valid.
*sarcastic*

Yes sir-sorry about that. See ? We lack all the proper skills to post our opinions here!! Once we fall in step and agree everything President Bush does is an evil selfish conspiracy, we will have arrived and be valid.
*sacastic*

Pretty much an accurate statement.

Pretty much an accurate statement.

You know its sad, but true.

Off the topic, sorry, but:
How is your father doing, by the way? I know he had orders that may put him back in harm's way.

You know its sad, but true.

Off the topic, sorry, but:
How is your father doing, by the way? I know he had orders that may put him back in harm's way.

August 13th is the day he's due home. So far, he's doing fine. Now counting down the days till he gets home! :)

August 13th is the day he's due home. So far, he's doing fine. Now counting down the days till he gets home! :)


Thats good news! My continued good wishes. And tell him "Thanks." There are many many people here that are both proud of him and grateful for his service and sacrafice.

Yes sir-sorry about that.

Not your fault at all. I guess I just haven't been around here since before that expression came into use. Thanks for the clarification.

August 13th is the day he's due home. So far, he's doing fine. Now counting down the days till he gets home! :)


And am I correct to anticipate there will be quite a celebration?

Thats good news! My continued good wishes. And tell him "Thanks." There are many many people here that are both proud of him and grateful for his service and sacrafice.

I'll let him know that :)

And am I correct to anticipate there will be quite a celebration?

Probably not as big a celebration. Mostly just me and mom welcoming him home. Though I'll probably have an american flag in my hand :D

Probably not as big a celebration. Mostly just me and mom welcoming him home. Though I'll probably have an american flag in my hand :D

I'm sure he'll be more than happy with that.

Souts was created by an British ex army officer (Robert Baden-Powell) and had elements of basic soldiermanship. However it does not have a military focus. I was in cub scouts as as kid and it was all about camping and "fun" things. The militaristic stuff is just to provide people with a feeling of membership... you would have to struggle to compare it to military drill or discipline.

None the less whatever its focus it is a childrens organisations and children should not be the focus of military recruiting at such a young age. Then again it is Bush so we should be glad he didn't hand out guns and arrest the ethic scouts for being terriosts...

Ahh the joy of not being American.