NationStates Jolt Archive

What is it you are trying to "conserve"?

It can't be the environment. You guys are always first in line to decry global warming and the like.

It can't be money either, otherwise you'd be aghast at the amount of the US national debt and budget problems.

It can't be states rights, or you'd tell the federal government to go screw themselves on things like the energy bill, or medical marijuana, or the right to die.

So, I'm at a loss. What ARE you trying to "conserve"?

the old way. I dont why the hell its called conservative? You should be asking you have these political beliefs. because in that case its my faith.

This just screams flamebait. :rolleyes:
Mods, lock please?

What is it you are trying to "conserve"?

It can't be the environment. You guys are always first in line to decry global warming and the like.

It can't be money either, otherwise you'd be aghast at the amount of the US national debt and budget problems.

It can't be states rights, or you'd tell the federal government to go screw themselves on things like the energy bill, or medical marijuana, or the right to die.

So, I'm at a loss. What ARE you trying to "conserve"?
That depends on a lot of things. It depends on what aspect of politics you're talking about [ie, economics, social policies, etc etc] and it also depends who you're calling 'Conservatives" because today's Republicans are for the most part hardly deserving of the title.

Using the conventional American definition of 'conservative,' my best guess is that they're attempting to conserve religious and/or social traditions. Fifteen years ago, a conservative was someone who favored personal responsibility and states' rights. They were also generally pretty vocal about reducing the size of government, which is something they've done a pretty bad job of proving, now that they own all three branches of government.

Someone [I think it was P.J. O'Rourke] once said that the Republicans are the party that always tells us that government doesn't work; then they get elected and prove it.

EDIT: and I'm not locking because it strikes me as a perfectly legitimate question. I've very often wondered how the title came about myself.

What is it you are trying to "conserve"?

It can't be the environment. You guys are always first in line to decry global warming and the like.

It can't be money either, otherwise you'd be aghast at the amount of the US national debt and budget problems.

It can't be states rights, or you'd tell the federal government to go screw themselves on things like the energy bill, or medical marijuana, or the right to die.

So, I'm at a loss. What ARE you trying to "conserve"?

It's a case of making things conservative. As in backward, archaic, patriarchal, curtailing political and civil liberties so that there are no individuals, just lots of grey people. (Can anyone say John Major?)

That's the way it is in Britain anyway :-p

Your describing "conservation" not "conservative." A conservative does not have anything to do with conserving... it has to do with adhering to a cautious or traditional viewpoint.

Main Entry: con·ser·va·tion
Pronunciation: "kän(t)-s&r-'vA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin conservation-, conservatio, from conservare
1 : a careful preservation and protection of something; especially : planned management of a natural resource to prevent exploitation, destruction, or neglect
2 : the preservation of a physical quantity during transformations or reactions

Main Entry: con·ser·va·tive
Pronunciation: k&n-'s&r-v&-tiv
Function: noun
1 a : an adherent or advocate of political conservatism b capitalized : a member or supporter of a conservative political party
2 a : one who adheres to traditional methods or views b : a cautious or discreet person

This just screams flamebait. :rolleyes:
Mods, lock please?

Sensetive are we? C'mon, it's a legit question, asked in earnest. I really want to know, because every single thing any so called conservative says makes little sense to me, so I just want some insight into their perspective.

Someone [I think it was P.J. O'Rourke] once said that the Republicans are the party that always tells us that government doesn't work; then they get elected and prove it.
Gawd, I love PJ! :D

Yeah, Parliament of Whores was very humorous and informative. I was surprised at how angry it made me about farm subsidies.

Conservative, when used in normal conversation, means traditional and basic. To play a game conservatively means to do it the safe but simple way, to not take any risks.

Conservatives traditionally want to keep things the same. The original, one-dimensional political spectrum measures how much change you want.

<---Radical---Liberal---Moderate---Conservative---Reactionary--->

The further left, the more change you want. Reactionaries want to not only stop change, but go back to the way things were. Conservatives want to keep things as they are. Moderates want slow change, liberals want consistent change, and radicals want immediate change.

At least, that's a general description.

Conservative in later years came to mean someone who wants less government. Conservatives wanted less government involvement in business, while liberals wanted more regulation. This during the early 20th century. Liberals instituted many of the business legislation still in use, such as minimum wage and child labor laws.

Modern conservatives have elements of both. They want less involvement in business, but at the same time want the government to meddle in private life (social values and all that).

Yeah, Parliament of Whores was very humorous and informative. I was surprised at how angry it made me about farm subsidies.
Now, imagine how quickly those red states would turn a darker shade should the Republicans get "conservative" on farm aid! :p :p :p

But then, god help us, they might turn blue. Nothing gained, if ya know what I mean. ;)

Aye

In the UK, especially under a Thatcherite Government, Conservatism was very much about maximising the economy and making people not reliant upon the State...unlike the situation we are now faced with under a Blairite Government.

Modern Conservatism involves the small-scaling of Government, especially at local levels and the removal of bureaucracy throughout, with the Government supporting social efforts such as the NHS, social welfare, etc - but not to the extent we have now.

The funniest thing that I find about Conservatives in the UK (and I'm one myself) is that Michael Howard was frontlining the fact that he wanted to put back the Matrons into the wards to get the hospitals clean when it was Thatcher who removed them in the first place...

Oh the irony

What is it you are trying to "conserve"?

the mistakes of the past

Conservative seems to be code for 'reactionary'.

This just screams flamebait. :rolleyes:
Mods, lock please?
"Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!!"

EDIT: Ya know, this thread is fairly articulate, actually. Not much flame at all.

What is it you are trying to "conserve"?

It can't be the environment. You guys are always first in line to decry global warming and the like.

It can't be money either, otherwise you'd be aghast at the amount of the US national debt and budget problems.

It can't be states rights, or you'd tell the federal government to go screw themselves on things like the energy bill, or medical marijuana, or the right to die.

So, I'm at a loss. What ARE you trying to "conserve"?

Conservative: Political ideology of limited change. "Conserving" the old methods, so to speak...

So nyah...

I like to think I have a conservative streak, so I guess I better have a stab at this.

To me, a conservative wants to preserve or bring back certain things. To a large extent, it's a "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy.

In my case, I wish to see more self reliance and more self governing. Paradoxically (as it goes against what most conservatives think) that means I think capitalism is useless. I don't see the need for nations to do anything but trade with eachother. I'm a big proponent of a UN (minus the current security council), because such a thing can make us concentrate on trading and the exchange of ideas, instead of dropping bombs & embargo's on eachother. I don't think it's my nation's responsibility to meddle in Iraq, or to supply arms and intel to Turkey so they can destroy 3500 Kurdish settlements and townships. My country's arms and military know-how should be in the hands of my population. I trust them to decide whether it's worthwhile to sell shit so others can kill off their own populations.

I'm dead against expansionist policies. We've gotten ahead in the world without resorting to imperialism fine. If we're having financial problems, the only sustainable solutions are education, research, innovation and hard work. Empires and hegemonies are nothing but trouble and internal brutalisation of dissidents anyway.

I think it should be up to local communities to decide if they want pension funds and healthcare. I think workers should co-own the facilities they work in. It breeds respect and dedication.

Self reliance & autonomy, basically...

I've yet to meet a conservative politican. They all seem to be advocating change, they just support different views on what the nation should become.

What is it you are trying to "conserve"?

It can't be the environment. You guys are always first in line to decry global warming and the like.

It can't be money either, otherwise you'd be aghast at the amount of the US national debt and budget problems.

It can't be states rights, or you'd tell the federal government to go screw themselves on things like the energy bill, or medical , or the right to die.

So, I'm at a loss. What ARE you trying to "conserve"?

We are trying to "conserve" the society as it exists today and in the past. We are trying to "conserve our Jeudeo-Christian values upon which we were founded. We are trying to adhear strickly to the Constitution and the morals and guidelines which it represents. We are trying to save our Republic. How you may ask? We are against tyrrany by minority as we are seeing by the Dems in Congress now that they are out of power. We are against judicial tyranny, the most blatent examples of judicial tyranny can be seen in the 9th Circut Court of Appeals were activist judges are constantly overturning legislation the people have voted in favor of because it goes against their liberal viewpoint. We are against the ACLU becomming the 4th branch of government. We are against the flood of illegals comming into this nation. We are in support of saving our ure. We are in favor of supporting the unborn. We are in favor of punishing criminals. We are in favor of true freedom of speech, not the liberal version where they silence conservatives by throwing pies at them (ex: what they did to Ann Coulter). We are against affirmative action and government handouts and wealth redistrubution, because we believe in the American dream that anyone can succeed upon their own merits. Best example? Andrew Carnigee (spl?). We are in support of our military and are patriotic. You say we are against the enviroment? Not all of us. Rush Limbaugh? Yes he is, but personally I think he's a moron. I'm one of the most right-wing people on this forum, yet I support protecting the enviroment. Please stop using generalizations, you wouldn't like it if we did it to you, so don't do it to us. You say we are against saving money? HA! Look at F.D.R. and L.B.J. and then look at Bush and Regan and tell me who spent more, and who did more good with what was spent. Look at the debt under Clinton. It was insane. I support fiscal responsibility, but until welfare and government handouts are stopped, the debt will never be under control. Besides, all nations have debt because modern economics has industrialized nations using debt trading, I forget the exact term for it, but look it up, its right there. States rights are still there, otherwise how would Vermont be able to do homo-unions? Besides, States rights in the form you are reffering to ended after the Civil War. It didn't work out, its a thing of the past.

Did I describe enough for you?

Now I'm going to bed, goodnight all.

Sensetive are we? C'mon, it's a legit question, asked in earnest. I really want to know, because every single thing any so called conservative says makes little sense to me, so I just want some insight into their perspective.
As with any politically ideologically oriented group, "conservatives" are primarily interested in being in power. This is why the definitions of terms like "liberal," "conservative," "socialist," "libertarian" and other political buzzwords has been so fluid over the years.

As one Clintonite said to another as they saw a flight of F-15s fly over right after his first election, "Just look at those instruments of war!" The reply was, "Yeah, but now they're our instruments of war!"

Words mean exactly what the person using them wants them to mean.

Were trying mostly to conserve good old fashioned values, so the future generation will have something to fall back on, when all the self centred liberal crap they build their lives on falls to bits around them.

Words mean exactly what the person using them wants them to mean.
Thank you for the perfect invite, Eutrusca! Let me find something incredibly juicy just for this...Ah, there're so many good ones!

"It was amazing I won. I was running against peace and prosperity and incumbency. "
-- GWB with Swedish Prime Minister Goran Persson, Gothenberg, Sweden, Jun. 14, 2001

"They act out of hatred. We don't seek revenge. We seek justice out of love."
-- GWB, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Aug. 29, 2002 So using your logic here, Bush thinks love = 70+ cruise missiles followed by an invasion of 150,000 men with hundreds of M-1 and M-2 tanks/personnel carriers. Scary.

And finally,
"I'm the master of low expectations."
-- You said it, Dubya, aboard Air Force One, Jun. 4, 2003

Were trying mostly to conserve good old fashioned values, so the future generation will have something to fall back on, when all the self centred liberal crap they build their lives on falls to bits around them.
Good old fashioned values such as:
Slavery!!!
Blind Christian arrogance!!
Worship of God and money!!!
Witch killing!!
Commie killing!!!
Wife beating!!!
Arrogance once more!!!
No restriction on child labor or corporations!!!
Segregation!!!!
And once those pesky liberals have all aborted themselves, you can reinstate segregation and have daily lynching parties!!!

Good old fashioned values such as:
Respect for individuals, instead of Slavery!!!
Self reliance and respect for individualism, instead of Blind Christian arrogance!!
Autonomy and limited, small scale collectivism, instead of the Worship of God and money!!!
Self governing and a fair and equal justice system, instead of Witch killing!!
Self governing and a fair and equal justice system, instead of Commie killing!!!
The right to self defence and gun ownership, instead of Wife beating!!!
Respect and non-interferrance, instead of Arrogance once more!!!
Locally controlled and owned businesses, instead of corporate shite resulting in No restriction on child labor or corporations!!!
Autonomy, smallscale collectivism, non-interference, instead of Segregation!!!!
And once those pesky liberals realize it's what they always wanted, execpt for the superheavy weight government and corporate subsidising, they'll be wellcome to join in, or make their own communities!!!

[QUOTE=Achtung 45]Good old fashioned values such as:
Slavery!!!

Slavery was a necessary evil to provide a labour force, it had nothing to do with values.
Indeed the only reason slavery became out of date and unpopular was because it was no longer nescessary due to the industrial revolution that meant machines could replace people.
Slavery hasnt gone out either, despite what you dont want to believe, it has only taken a new format, that of sex slaves.
Not as many I admit, but slavery never the less.

arrogance!!

Theres plenty of that still around. :rolleyes:
Worship of God and money!!!

Theres nothing wrong with worshipping God, alot of people see nothing old fashioned about it, and are you seriously suggesting the worship of money is an old fashioned value? In this day and age? The height of capitalism!

Witch killing!!

A good thing, as witches are Satans whores.


Commie killing!!!

Now your being ridiculous.


Wife beating!!!

Thats always happenned, and is still happenning now.
Theres also husband beating, and child beating which is usually carried out by the wife.


No restriction on child labor or corporations!!!

Like the modern day sweat shops in SEAsia?


Segregation!!!!

Thats coming back in a new form, class according to intellect.

And once those pesky liberals have all aborted themselves, you can reinstate segregation and have daily lynching parties!!!

Yeeeerrrrrrrrrrhhhharrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! :) pass the bible and ammo!
Sorry but your being ridiculous, so I responded in kind. :)