NationStates Jolt Archive

I support Bush and think that he has made the right decisions about Iraq so far. What I want to know is what you people think about Bush's policies in Iraq and why you think that way.

This belongs in General.

I support Bush and think that he has made the right decisions about Iraq so far. What I want to know is what you people think about Bush's policies in Iraq and why you think that way.


Uh... He's human?

Now, about Sudan ...

Or Zimbabwe; why not invade Mugabe? He tortures his own people, like Saddam; and Saddam had no links to WMD or Terrorists, so it became about saving the people.

Could it be Zimbabwe's lack of oil?

Or Venezuala? Chavez is building Socialism and Bush may go on a McCartyist crusade.

Wouldn't he go for Cuba first? I wonder if he knows the missles are gone...

Wouldn't he go for Cuba first? I wonder if he knows the missles are gone...

3 words, Bay of Pigs

Ah, not again....

OOC: He's too much of a flip flopper. One minute he's talking about the axis of evil, the next he doesn't want to invade North Korea. If he wants to make the US conquer evil he hould do so already. Otherwise, bring the morons who drink his cool-aid home, rather then have them do a half a--ed job.

IC: The Protectorate of Deep Core Nations has no official stance on Darth Texicus.

OOC: He's too much of a flip flopper. One minute he's talking about the axis of evil, the next he doesn't want to invade North Korea. If he wants to make the US conquer evil he hould do so already. Otherwise, bring the morons who drink his cool-aid home, rather then have them do a half a--ed job.

IC: The Protectorate of Deep Core Nations has no official stance on Darth Texicus.

The USA have never been out of a state of war since they entered Korea in the 50's. He won't invade NK, they're allies with China, and they'd destroy the USA in a nuclear war, which there is no doubt it would escalte into.

LOL. Dath Texicus.

He won't invade North Korea because he knows that they can fight back. The Iraqis on the other hand... hardly had an army left from sanctions and past wars.

The US would easily win a nuclear war with China. We've got more, and we can hit virtually anywhere in China, whereas they can only hit our west coast cities...

Okey Dokey then. I don't know where that came from, but.....

There would be no winners in an Nuclear war. And anyway there next target will be Iran

Bush only goes after places with oil knumbskulls.

There would be no winners in an Nuclear war. And anyway there next target will be Iran

That's completely untrue. All you have to do is achieve first strike, simeltaneously wiping out the nuclear capabilities of a hostile nation so that they cannot retaliate.

I believe we should strike now, while China is weak.

yes; but the point is, while in flight, it could be detected, a response would be sent forth; more missles; ensuring MAD

Bush is a good leader and doing a good job in the middle east.

Bush is a good leader and doing a good job in the middle east.
How much are they paying you?

I think Bush is jerking around the pro-life vote.

That's better than Kerry though, seeing as Bush needs pro-lifers and Kerry didn't.

I think we should focus on regaining China's rightful territory from pseudo-communist tyrants and get them off that island.

And we STILL haven't whacked the beard.

Bush is a good president for the most part... but a horrible at saying why he is doing what he does (which doesn't matter to me, since I like his decisions).

That's completely untrue. All you have to do is achieve first strike, simeltaneously wiping out the nuclear capabilities of a hostile nation so that they cannot retaliate.

I believe we should strike now, while China is weak.

I completely agree. We should kill me! We should kill the Chinese! We should kill all the expats that are currently occupying the wonderful country.

PS. everything Bush does annoys me. Everything. His views, his ignorance, his beliefe that he is the best.

I completely agree. We should kill me! We should kill the Chinese! We should kill all the expats that are currently occupying the wonderful country.

PS. everything Bush does annoys me. Everything. His views, his ignorance, his beliefe that he is the best.
Hey, if we kill everyone, there'll be no threat to my safety!

That's the philosphy behind the "war on terror."

Not everything Bush does/says is annoying. Sometimes he can be quite funny. Take this for example:
"As I said in my State of the Union address, liberty is not America's gift to the world. Liberty is God's gift to human -- to the human -- mankind."
-- Looking for and failing to find "humanity", Washington, D.C., Feb. 26, 2003

Hey, if we kill everyone, there'll be no threat to my safety!

That's the philosphy behind the "war on terror."

Not everything Bush does/says is annoying. Sometimes he can be quite funny. Take this for example:
"As I said in my State of the Union address, liberty is not America's gift to the world. Liberty is God's gift to human -- to the human -- mankind."
-- Looking for and failing to find "humanity", Washington, D.C., Feb. 26, 2003

Okay, fair enough./ He does say some funny thinkgs, but then I remember that he;s leading a great superpower, and it's not funny anymore. Just annoying. =P

IMO he's the worst leader of a first world country that we have seen in my lifetime (I'm 34). Vs American presidents, he's worse than Reagan. He's much worse than his dad, and he's not even playing the same sport as Clinton.

Iraq started out as an unjustified attack and has developed into a complete clusterfuck that we'll be paying for in money, lives and prestige for the next 10 years at least, our foreign relations are mostly terrible other than with the UK. His asinine 'Axis of Evil' statement caused the countries named to ally as much as they could and go for nuclear weaponry like their lives depended on it because, after all, they did. His religion mixing with his politics... his speeches where he sounds like he has a concussion... his views on abortion and scientific research... like dunno said there's simply nothing about him that doesn't annoy me. He makes the USA look buffoonish. I dunno... maybe we ARE buffoonish these days.

I would have loved to see him debate Saddam when he was challenged to do so.

Our problem is that the Democrats are terrible and won't take the fight to him because their hands are in the cookie jar, too. We really, really need a strong 3rd party with a plan for reform up in here.

Seriously though... I don't see anything about Bush that would make me think 'leader'. My question is, do conservatives support him because they actually like him, or do they support him just to spite us fancy-talkin' pinko libs on the coasts? I accept that we sometimes have to go conservative in our leadership. But can't we find a more intelligent conservative than that?

This is gonna end up being an ugly thread, isn't it? :D

Bush is a good president for the most part... but a horrible at saying why he is doing what he does (which doesn't matter to me, since I like his decisions).

He's horrible. Absolutely awful.

On the economy, he's lead the slowest recovery ever. The gap between the rich and the middle class is widening and yet more of the tax burden lies with the middle class. Deficits are out of control. He's yet to veto a single thing, and pork is unbelieveably rampant. Costs across the board have shot up, while the pay the average person takes home has dropped

The tone in washington is more divisive and partisan than ever. Petty political ploys portray veterans (Max Cleeland and John McCain,) as either unhinged or unAmerican.

He unable to articulate his points. He uses wedge issues as if they are the only issues and he surrounds himself by radical idealogues.

Worst President ever.

Bush is NOT the worst President ever (IMO, that honor will forever belong to Warren G. Harding)
That being said, I believe his domestic policy is a crock of crap. He approves virtually every single spending bill except those that may offend the Christian right.
And while I believe we should generally kick *** internationally, President Bush is far too comfortable with many regimes I hate. Like North Korea.


Of course, I still trust Bush over the radicals on the Loony Left.

The USA have never been out of a state of war since they entered Korea in the 50's.

ACtually, you can probably go back to say World War II?

He won't invade NK, they're allies with China, and they'd destroy the USA in a nuclear war, which there is no doubt it would escalte into.

And we can destroy both nations many times over whereas, China can barely hit the west coast. Yea, that's destroying the US alright! :rolleyes:

As for Bush, I like him though his immigration policies suck to high heaven.

Bush only goes after places with oil knumbskulls.

Funny. We're not in Iraq for the oil :rolleyes:

Bush is NOT the worst President ever (IMO, that honor will forever belong to Warren G. Harding)
That being said, I believe his domestic policy is a crock of crap. He approves virtually every single spending bill except those that may offend the Christian right.
And while I believe we should generally kick *** internationally, President Bush is far too comfortable with many regimes I hate. Like North Korea.


Of course, I still trust Bush over the radicals on the Loony Left.
You trust a man who says this?:
"In my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." - May 24, 2005

And if you don't think he believes in whatever he says, I refer you to this little gem:
"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right."
-- A believing Dubya showing belief in his beliefs, Rome, Italy, Jul. 22, 2001

He's horrible. Absolutely awful.

On the economy, he's lead the slowest recovery ever.

What the hell have you been smoking? We have the fastest growing economy not seen since the Reagan Administration. So I am going to call BS here because this is a totally false statement.

Deficits are out of control.

Deficits are shrinking :rolleyes:

He's yet to veto a single thing, and pork is unbelieveably rampant.

This I agree with but the Pork has been rampant even before the Bush Administration.

Wrst President ever.

That'll be Carter actually but that is a different thread.

Funny. We're not in Iraq for the oil :rolleyes:
No, we're in Iraq to kick over hornet's nests and genetically mutilate newborn Iraqis. Oh yeah, and a possible democracy is a nice side effect too, but the chances of it actually working, haha, well... not very good.

Considering that Bush is digging us a financial grave while waging perpetual war to satisfy the neocon agenda, he's no better than Warren G. Harding. Oh yeah, Bush did start the do-not-call list. I give him props for that, and that only.

Deficits are shrinking :rolleyes:
As opposed to the growing $7.8 trillion debt?

As opposed to the growing $7.8 trillion debt?

As opposed to fighting a war on a global scale?

You trust a man who says this?:
"In my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." - May 24, 2005

And if you don't think he believes in whatever he says, I refer you to this little gem:
"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right."
-- A believing Dubya showing belief in his beliefs, Rome, Italy, Jul. 22, 2001
In a sense. I don't see the problem with either of these statements, as I didn't see a problem with "I voted for it before I voted against it."

I still don't trust him to do what's best, but if it comes down between him and people like Moore/Dean/Fonda, I'll take Bush any day of the week.

As opposed to fighting a war on a global scale?
As opposed to what the fuck does that mean? Just because he's fighting a global perpetual war, doesn't mean he can spend as much money as he wants and get away with it. Gulf of Tonkin is over. You're gonna be sorry you supported this war--even if it does turn out relatively good--when America is using all of its resources just to pay off interest to Bush's spendthrifty megalomania.

As opposed to what the fuck does that mean? Just because he's fighting a global perpetual war, doesn't mean he can spend as much money as he wants and get away with it.

It takes money to run the war Achtung. Come on. You should know that.

Gulf of Tonkin is over.

Guess what? That was started by a Democrat and ended by a Republican.

You're gonna be sorry you supported this war--even if it does turn out relatively good--when America is using all of its resources just to pay off interest to Bush's spendthrifty megalomania.

We're already paying interest so what's your point?

In a sense. I don't see the problem with either of these statements, as I didn't see a problem with "I voted for it before I voted against it."First of all, that was taken way out of context as Kerry was saying that he voted for it--when there wasn't pork attatched--then voted against it--when there was pork attatched. Second, the election is over.

I think

that there are maggots

with more style, grace

and

substance

than will ever be found

in any part

of

the entire

Bush family tree.

It takes money to run the war Achtung. Come on. You should know that. I refer you here. (http://readythinkvote.com/vote_iraq_1.html) It may seem biased or made up, but I challenge you to go back to the sources and report a different finding. I guess reality is just biased against conservatives. :rolleyes:

Guess what? That was started by a Democrat and ended by a Republican.whoopee

We're already paying interest so what's your point?
On what basis can you say that? If we are paying off some of the interest, it's not nearly enough.

What the hell have you been smoking? We have the fastest growing economy not seen since the Reagan Administration. So I am going to call BS here because this is a totally false statement.

The economy is good, for the top few percent. "Fastest Growing" is a meaningless term, because you can point to a single indicator and make that claim



Deficits are shrinking :rolleyes:

Yes, deficits are shrinking...from the record levels Bush created. It's not hard to improve on something that's the worst ever.



This I agree with but the Pork has been rampant even before the Bush Administration.

This is exacerbated by Bush's inability to veto anything.



That'll be Carter actually but that is a different thread.

fair enough.

First of all, that was taken way out of context as Kerry was saying that he voted for it--when there wasn't pork attatched--then voted against it--when there was pork attatched. Second, the election is over.
Doesn't matter if the election over. It was still a stupid statement that normal people just don't understand and Kerry was blasted for it because of partisan differences.
Same thing with most of Bush's statements...plus, Bush has the unusual displeasure of having everything he has ever said recorded by the internet crowd so a few grammatically incorrect phrases can be picked out.

I think
that there are maggots
with more style, grace
and
substance
than will ever be found
in any part
of
the entire
Bush family tree.
That's not true at all. Bush's family is incredibly respectable, in a scary sense, as Prescott S. Bush continued to profit from the Nazis before WWII. He knew what they were doing, didn't like it, but his value of money was more important than doing what was right. Bush comes from a long line of respectable money worshippers, who bought their way into the highest educations and out of any hot water.

The economy is good, for the top few percent. "Fastest Growing" is a meaningless term, because you can point to a single indicator and make that claim

Bull! Everyone is benefiting. May seem like only the top few are because they are the one's that pay the most taxes and thus will get more money back due to the ACROSS THE BOARD TAX CUTS!

I'm really beginning to hate repeating myself.

Yes, deficits are shrinking...from the record levels Bush created. It's not hard to improve on something that's the worst ever.

Considering the deficit shrinkage was larger than expected. I'll take it.

This is exacerbated by Bush's inability to veto anything.

Again! Its been rampant for years. Long before Bush so you can't blame it all on him.

fair enough.

At least we agree there :p

Doesn't matter if the election over. It was still a stupid statement that normal people just don't understand and Kerry was blasted for it because of partisan differences.
Same thing with most of Bush's statements...plus, Bush has the unusual displeasure of having everything he has ever said recorded by the internet crowd so a few grammatically incorrect phrases can be picked out.
2,893 quotes are a few!? And only a fraction are grammatically incorrect. Many are facutally incorrect (My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific.), surprisingly candid, (It was amazing I won. I was running against peace and prosperity and incumbency.), incredibly incoherent (And so, in my State of the -- my State of the Union -- or state -- my speech to the -- nation, whatever you wanna call it, speech to the nation -- I asked Americans to give 4,000 years -- 4,000 hours over the next -- of the rest of your life -- of service to America. That's what I asked. I said 2 -- 4,000 hours.) And yet, you don't see the "liberal media" playing this stupid crap every day or, God forbid, during the campaign.

I support Bush and think that he has made the right decisions about Iraq so far. What I want to know is what you people think about Bush's policies in Iraq and why you think that way.
I supported Bush when he launched the attack against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Iraq was a colossal misjudgment on Bush's part, as was the decision to downsize the number of troops in Afghanistan to fight the war in Iraq.

After witnessing what is happening in Afghanistan, I no longer support the decision to be in Afghanistan.

Bush should have allowed the UN inspectors to finish their job in Iraq. I personally think that Bush didn't want the UN to finish the job because they were not finding any WMD, and that didn't fit Bush's plan to occupy Iraq and control that sector, partially for oil and partially for military bases.

Bush has zero credibility in my books as a result.

"The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending time investigating it." —George W. Bush, on the probe into how CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity was leaked, Washington D.C., July 18, 2005

"I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend." —George W. Bush, on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005

"I was going to say he's a piece of work, but that might not translate too well. Is that all right, if I call you a 'piece of work'?" —George W. Bush to Jean-Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg, Washington, D.C., June 20, 2005

"The relations with, uhh — Europe are important relations, and they've, uhh — because, we do share values. And, they're universal values, they're not American values or, you know — European values, they're universal values. And those values — uhh — being universal, ought to be applied everywhere." —George W. Bush, at a press conference with European Union dignitaries, Washington, D.C., June 20, 2005
"You see, not only did the attacks help accelerate a recession, the attacks reminded us that we are at war." —George W. Bush, on the Sept. 11 attacks, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005

"And the second way to defeat the terrorists is to spread freedom. You see, the best way to defeat a society that is — doesn't have hope, a society where people become so angry they're willing to become suiciders, is to spread freedom, is to spread democracy." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005
"It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word of — and the allegations — by people who were held in detention, people who hate America, people that had been trained in some instances to disassemble — that means not tell the truth." —George W. Bush, on an Amnesty International report on prisoner abuse at Guantanamo Bay, Washington, D.C., May 31, 2005 (Listen to audio)

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio)

"We discussed the way forward in Iraq, discussed the importance of a democracy in the greater Middle East in order to leave behind a peaceful tomorrow." —George W. Bush, Tbilisi, Georgia, May 10, 2005

"I think younger workers — first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government — promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2005

"It means your own money would grow better than that which the government can make it grow. And that's important." —George W. Bush, on what private accounts could do for Social Security funds, Falls Church, Va., April 29, 2005

"It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"We expect the states to show us whether or not we're achieving simple objectives — like literacy, literacy in math, the ability to read and write." —George W. Bush, on federal education requirements, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"He understands the need for a timely write of the constitution." —George W. Bush, on Prime Minister Iyad Allawi of Iraq, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"Well, we've made the decision to defeat the terrorists abroad so we don't have to face them here at home. And when you engage the terrorists abroad, it causes activity and action." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"But Iraq has — have got people there that are willing to kill, and they're hard-nosed killers. And we will work with the Iraqis to secure their future." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"We have enough coal to last for 250 years, yet coal also prevents an environmental challenge." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 20, 2005

"Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it." —George W. Bush, Kirtland, Ohio, April 15, 2005

"I'm going to spend a lot of time on Social Security. I enjoy it. I enjoy taking on the issue. I guess, it's the Mother in me." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005

"We look forward to analyzing and working with legislation that will make — it would hope — put a free press's mind at ease that you're not being denied information you shouldn't see." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 14, 2005

"I want to thank you for the importance that you've shown for education and literacy." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2005

"I understand there's a suspicion that we—we're too security-conscience." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005

"If they pre-decease or die early, there's an asset base to be able to pass on to a loved one." —George W. Bush, on Social Security money held in private accounts, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, March 30, 2005

"In this job you've got a lot on your plate on a regular basis; you don't have much time to sit around and wander, lonely, in the Oval Office, kind of asking different portraits, 'How do you think my standing will be?'" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005

"In terms of timetables, as quickly as possible — whatever that means." —George W. Bush, on his time frame for shoring up Social Security, Washington D.C., March 16, 2005

"I repeat, personal accounts do not permanently fix the solution." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005

"This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the table." —George W. Bush, Brussels, Belgium, Feb. 22, 2005

"If you're a younger person, you ought to be asking members of Congress and the United States Senate and the president what you intend to do about it. If you see a train wreck coming, you ought to be saying, what are you going to do about it, Mr. Congressman, or Madam Congressman?" —George W. Bush, Detroit, Mich., Feb. 8, 2005

Got a Bushism?
Send it to politicalhumor.guide@about.com

Email This Page to a Friend

"Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the — like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth is affected, it will help on the red." —George W. Bush, explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005

"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

"After all, Europe is America's closest ally." —George W. Bush, Mainz, Germany, Feb. 23, 2005

"I'm also mindful that man should never try to put words in God's mouth. I mean, we should never ascribe natural disasters or anything else to God. We are in no way, shape, or form should a human being, play God." —George W. Bush, ABC's 20/20, Washington D.C., Jan. 14, 2005

"I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your sacrifice." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005

"I speak plainly sometimes, but you've got to be mindful of the consequences of the words. So put that down. I don't know if you'd call that a confession, a regret, something." —George W. Bush, speaking to reporters, Washington, D.C., Jan. 14, 2005

"Who could have possibly envisioned an erection — an election in Iraq at this point in history?" —George W. Bush, at the white House, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005

"We need to apply 21st-century information technology to the health care field. We need to have our medical records put on the I.T." —George W. Bush, Collinsville, Ill., Jan. 5, 2005

"I believe we are called to do the hard work to make our communities and quality of life a better place." —George W. Bush, Collinsville, Ill., Jan. 5, 2005

"It's a time of sorrow and sadness when we lose a loss of life." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 21, 2004

"They can get in line like those who have been here legally and have been working to become a citizenship in a legal manner." —George W. Bush, on immigrant workers, Washington, D.C., Dec. 20, 2004

"And so during these holiday seasons, we thank our blessings." —George W. Bush, Fort Belvoir, Va., Dec. 10, 2004

"Justice ought to be fair." —George W. Bush, speaking at the White House Economic Conference, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2004

"The president and I also reaffirmed our determination to fight terror, to bring drug trafficking to bear, to bring justice to those who pollute our youth." —George W. Bush, speaking with Chilean President Ricardo Lagos, Santiago, Chile, Nov. 21, 2004

"We thought we were protected forever from trade policy or terrorist attacks because oceans protected us." —George W. Bush, speaking to business leaders at APEC Summit, Santiago, Chile, Nov. 20, 2004

"I always jest to people, the Oval Office is the kind of place where people stand outside, they're getting ready to come in and tell me what for, and they walk in and get overwhelmed in the atmosphere, and they say, man, you're looking pretty." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Nov. 4, 2004

"I have a record in office, as well. And all Americans have seen that record. September the 4th, 2001, I stood in the ruins of the Twin Towers. It's a day I will never forget." —George W. Bush, Marlton, New Jersey, Oct. 18, 2004

"After standing on the stage, after the debates, I made it very plain, we will not have an all-volunteer army. And yet, this week — we will have an all-volunteer army!" —George W. Bush, Daytona Beach, Fla., Oct. 16, 2004 (Watch video or listen to audio)

"I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004 (Watch video or listen to audio)

"The truth of that matter is, if you listen carefully, Saddam would still be in power if he were the president of the United States, and the world would be a lot better off." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"When a drug comes in from Canada, I wanna make sure it cures ya, not kill ya... I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And one — my worry is that it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all." —George W. Bush, referring to Sen. Kerry, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"I own a timber company? That's news to me. Need some wood?" —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges, years ago, said that the Constitution allowed slavery because of personal property rights. That's a personal opinion. That's not what the constitution says. The constitution of the United States says we're all — you know, it doesn't say that. It doesn't speak to the equality of America." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"The enemy understands a free Iraq will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred. That's why they're fighting so vociferously." —George W. Bush, first presidential debate, Coral Gables, Fla., Sept. 30, 2004

"You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way." —George W. Bush, first presidential debate, Coral Gables, Fla., Sept. 30, 2004

"I think it's very important for the American President to mean what he says. That's why I understand that the enemy could misread what I say. That's why I try to be as clearly I can." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"I saw a poll that said the right track/wrong track in Iraq was better than here in America. It's pretty darn strong. I mean, the people see a better future." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"I'm not the expert on how the Iraqi people think, because I live in America, where it's nice and safe and secure." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"It's the Afghan national army that went into Najaf and did the work there." —George W. Bush, referring to Iraqi troops during a joint press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"The CIA laid out several scenarios and said life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better, and they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like." —George W. Bush, New York City, Sept. 21, 2004

"Free societies are hopeful societies. And free societies will be allies against these hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 17, 2004

"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —George W. Bush, Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip or listen to audio)

"We will make sure our troops have all that is necessary to complete their missions. That's why I went to the Congress last September and proposed fundamental — supplemental funding, which is money for armor and body parts and ammunition and fuel." —George W. Bush, Erie, Pa., Sept. 4, 2004

"Had we to do it over again, we would look at the consequences of catastrophic success, being so successful so fast that an enemy that should have surrendered or been done in escaped and lived to fight another day." —George W. Bush, telling Time magazine that he underestimated the Iraqi resistance

"They've seen me make decisions, they've seen me under trying times, they've seen me weep, they've seen me laugh, they've seen me hug. And they know who I am, and I believe they're comfortable with the fact that they know I'm not going to shift principles or shift positions based upon polls and focus groups." —George W. Bush, interview with USA Today, Aug. 27, 2004

"I hope you leave here and walk out and say, 'What did he say?'" —George W. Bush, Beaverton, Oregon, Aug. 13, 2004

"So community colleges are accessible, they're available, they're affordable, and their curriculums don't get stuck. In other words, if there's a need for a certain kind of worker, I presume your curriculums evolved over time." —George W. Bush, Niceville, Fla., Aug. 10, 2004

"Let me put it to you bluntly. In a changing world, we want more people to have control over your own life." —George W. Bush, Annandale, Va, Aug. 9, 2004

"As you know, we don't have relationships with Iran. I mean, that's — ever since the late '70s, we have no contacts with them, and we've totally sanctioned them. In other words, there's no sanctions — you can't — we're out of sanctions." —George W. Bush, Annandale, Va, Aug. 9, 2004

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 (Watch video clip or listen to audio)

"Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a — you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip or listen to audio)

"I cut the taxes on everybody. I didn't cut them. The Congress cut them. I asked them to cut them." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004

"I wish I wasn't the war president. Who in the heck wants to be a war president? I don't." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004

"We stand for things." —George W. Bush, Davenport, Iowa, Aug. 5, 2004

'I don't know why you're talking about Sweden. They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.'' --George W. Bush, during an Oval Office meeting with Rep. Tom Lantos, as reported by the New York Times

"Give me a chance to be your president and America will be safer and stronger and better." —Still-President George W. Bush, Marquette, Michigan, July 13, 2004

"I mean, if you've ever been a governor of a state, you understand the vast potential of broadband technology, you understand how hard it is to make sure that physics, for example, is taught in every classroom in the state. It's difficult to do. It's, like, cost-prohibitive." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 24, 2004

"And I am an optimistic person. I guess if you want to try to find something to be pessimistic about, you can find it, no matter how hard you look, you know?" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 15, 2004

"I want to thank my friend, Senator Bill Frist, for joining us today. You're doing a heck of a job. You cut your teeth here, right? That's where you started practicing? That's good. He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004

"I'm honored to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen who had his hand cut off by Saddam Hussein." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 25, 2004

"Like you, I have been disgraced about what I've seen on TV that took place in prison." —George W. Bush, Parkersburg, West Virginia, May 13, 2004

"My job is to, like, think beyond the immediate." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 21, 2004

"They could still be hidden, like the 50 tons of mustard gas on a turkey farm." —George W. Bush, on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Washington, D.C. , April 13, 2004

"This has been tough weeks in that country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004

"Coalition forces have encountered serious violence in some areas of Iraq. Our military commanders report that this violence is being insticated by three groups." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004

"Obviously, I pray every day there's less casualty." —George W. Bush, Fort Hood, Texas, April 11, 2004

"We're still being challenged in Iraq and the reason why is a free Iraq will be a major defeat in the cause of freedom." —George W. Bush, Charlotte, N.C., April 5, 2004

"Earlier today, the Libyan government released Fathi Jahmi. She's a local government official who was imprisoned in 2002 for advocating free speech and democracy." —George W. Bush, citing Jahmi, who is a man, in a speech paying tribute to women reformers during International Women's Week, Washington, D.C., March 12, 2004

"The march to war hurt the economy. Laura reminded me a while ago that remember what was on the TV screens — she calls me, 'George W.' — 'George W.' I call her, 'First Lady.' No, anyway — she said, we said, march to war on our TV screen." —George W. Bush, Bay Shore, New York, Mar. 11, 2004
"God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear." —George W. Bush, Los Angeles, Calif., March 3, 2004

"Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 19, 2004

"Joe, I don't do nuance." —George W. Bush to Sen. Joseph Biden, as quoted in Time, Feb. 15, 2004

"The march to war affected the people's confidence. It's hard to make investment. See, if you're a small business owner or a large business owner and you're thinking about investing, you've got to be optimistic when you invest. Except when you're marching to war, it's not a very optimistic thought, is it? In other words, it's the opposite of optimistic when you're thinking you're going to war." —George W. Bush, Springfield, Mo., Feb. 9, 2004

"But the true strength of America is found in the hearts and souls of people like Travis, people who are willing to love their neighbor, just like they would like to love themselves." —George W. Bush, Springfield, Mo., Feb. 9, 2004

"In my judgment, when the United States says there will be serious consequences, and if there isn't serious consequences, it creates adverse consequences." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"There is no such thing necessarily in a dictatorial regime of iron-clad absolutely solid evidence. The evidence I had was the best possible evidence that he had a weapon." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been — some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started — but nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, affected the economy." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"We do know that Saddam Hussein had the intent and the capabilities to cause great harm. We know he was a great danger….What we don't know yet is what we thought and what the Iraqi Survey Group has found, and we want to look at that." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. Feb. 2, 2004

"My views are one that speaks to freedom." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"See, one of the interesting things in the Oval Office — I love to bring people into the Oval Office — right around the corner from here — and say, this is where I office, but I want you to know the office is always bigger than the person." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"More Muslims have died at the hands of killers than — I say more Muslims — a lot of Muslims have died — I don't know the exact count — at Istanbul. Look at these different places around the world where there's been tremendous death and destruction because killers kill." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004 (Listen to audio clip)

"Just remember it's the birds that's supposed to suffer, not the hunter." —George W. Bush, advising quail hunter and New Mexico Sen. Pete Domenici, Roswell, N.M., Jan. 22, 2004

"For diplomacy to be effective, words must be credible, and no one can now doubt the word of America." —George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 20, 2004

"I want to thank the astronauts who are with us, the courageous spacial entrepreneurs who set such a wonderful example for the young of our country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. Jan. 14, 2004

"I was a prisoner too, but for bad reasons." —George W. Bush, to Argentine President Nestor Kirchner, on being told that all but one of the Argentine delegates to a summit meeting were imprisoned during the military dictatorship, Monterrey, Mexico, Jan. 13, 2004


"One of the most meaningful things that's happened to me since I've been the governor — the president — governor — president. Oops. Ex-governor. I went to Bethesda Naval Hospital to give a fellow a Purple Heart, and at the same moment I watched him—get a Purple Heart for action in Iraq — and at that same — right after I gave him the Purple Heart, he was sworn in as a citizen of the United States — a Mexican citizen, now a United States citizen." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 9, 2004

"And if you're interested in the quality of education and you're paying attention to what you hear at Laclede, why don't you volunteer? Why don't you mentor a child how to read?" —George W. Bush, St. Louis, Mo., Jan. 5, 2004

"So thank you for reminding me about the importance of being a good mom and a great volunteer as well." —George W. Bush, St. Louis, Mos., Jan. 5, 2004

Funny. We're not in Iraq for the oil :rolleyes:
Actually the US is in Iraq for the oil, and I don't find it humourous at all.

What the hell have you been smoking? We have the fastest growing economy not seen since the Reagan Administration. So I am going to call BS here because this is a totally false statement.
You can prove this statement with some facts of course?

Deficits are shrinking :rolleyes:

Yup the deficits are shrinking alright :rolleyes:

http://readythinkvote.com/images/deficit_chart.gif

Maybe you are looking at the charts upside down??

Yup the deficits are shrinking alright :rolleyes:

http://readythinkvote.com/images/deficit_chart.gif

Maybe you are looking at the charts upside down??
While your statement is funny, deficits are shrinking as portion of total GDP.

2,893 quotes are a few!?
Yes. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush had spoken publicly 200 times per year. Even if each "speech" was only 100 sentences, that's about 20,000 possible quotes.

My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific
It's partially incorrect. America has been associating with Japan since the late 1800's. (1860's or 70's maybe?) We were the ones that opened the nation up to trade after sending a crapload of battleships into their harbors.
The US has been talking and trading with Japan since that time, with only some "minor" occurences.

It was amazing I won. I was running against peace and prosperity and incumbency
What's wrong with this statement? I agree with him. A testament to the skill of Karl Rove, to say the least.

And so, in my State of the -- my State of the Union -- or state -- my speech to the -- nation, whatever you wanna call it, speech to the nation -- I asked Americans to give 4,000 years -- 4,000 hours over the next -- of the rest of your life -- of service to America. That's what I asked. I said 2 -- 4,000 hours
Crap happens.

And yet, you don't see the "liberal media" playing this stupid crap every day or, God forbid, during the campaign.
It's a non-issue. I don't understand why anyone spends any time attacking a man's speech abilities. IMHO, policy decisions should be the focus of the President, not pandering the public. And there are plenty of decisions Bush has made that everyone can disagree with.

Yes. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush had spoken publicly 200 times per year. Even if each "speech" was only 100 sentences, that's about 20,000 possible quotes.So about every 7 sentences he says is worthy of nitice.


It's partially incorrect. America has been associating with Japan since the late 1800's. (1860's or 70's maybe?) We were the ones that opened the nation up to trade after sending a crapload of battleships into their harbors.
The US has been talking and trading with Japan since that time, with only some "minor" occurences. "minor" meaning them bombing the shit out of us, then us bombing the shit out of them.


What's wrong with this statement? I agree with him. A testament to the skill of Karl Rove, to say the least.
WTF!? read it a little more carefully. Is this how you read every opposing argument?

So about every 7 sentences he says is worthy of nitice.
Perhaps. I'd like to see someone do an actual statistical analysis on every public statement Bush has made since his election, but that's simply not feasible at the moment.

"minor" meaning them bombing the shit out of us, then us bombing the shit out of them.
Aye. Bombing tends to set back relationships a little bit.

WTF!? read it a little more carefully. Is this how you read every opposing argument?
Bush said
It was amazing I won. I was running against peace and prosperity and incumbency
and I agree. I don't see how the statement is noteworthy at all, except for people that are nostalgic for the Clinton years.

Aye. Bombing tends to set back relationships a little bit.Especially nuclear bombings, invasions and crippling of navies.


Bush said

and I agree. I don't see how the statement is noteworthy at all, except for people that are nostalgic for the Clinton years.
It's noteworthy because he was admitting to running against peace and prosperity, i.e. he is the antidote to the two.

Bull! Everyone is benefiting. May seem like only the top few are because they are the one's that pay the most taxes and thus will get more money back due to the ACROSS THE BOARD TAX CUTS!

Taxes are down, but takehome earnings from typical Americans are down. Expenses are up across the board from medical to energy, effecting small businesses (who are always those who create the most new decent jobs,) the most.

I'm really beginning to hate repeating myself.

Then how about you stop parroting right-wing spin?

Considering the deficit shrinkage was larger than expected. I'll take it.

Lowered expectations are the trademark of this administration.



Again! Its been rampant for years. Long before Bush so you can't blame it all on him.

I never said I blamed it all on him. I just think he is the most conspicuous collaborator. Did you actually look at any of the recent energy bill? Handouts to energy companies all over the place.



At least we agree there :p[/QUOTE]

We agree it belongs in another discussion. :D

Bush has been an under-acheiver all his life and he is a liar. Says he's been to war apparently.

Especially nuclear bombings, invasions and crippling of navies.

Aye. But a relationship between Japan and the US has been in place for quite some time, even back into the 1800's. A century and a half is incorrect, of course, but that is closer than half a century.

It's noteworthy because he was admitting to running against peace and prosperity, i.e. he is the antidote to the two
Appearnces can be deceiving. While some may believe that Bush is the end-all be-all to all of America's problems, making this statement ironic, many also believe the "peace and prosperity" of 2000 was bought at a heavy price, making Bush more attractive than Gore.
Bush is JUST implying that voters are generally stupid and easily manipulated. Which is true. So, I agree.

look at what i have started. it is kinda interesting.

I guess the wheel of nationstates comes back to the Bush threads again.

What I really think about bush? I dislike the man severely. I wouldn't have voted for him. In fact, talking in political compass terms, he is the polar opposite of everything I believe. He's a jingoist, I'm a pacifist. He's a moralist, I'm a deist who supports seperation of church and state. He's a hardcore capitalist, I'm a democratic socialist. He opposes Stem Cell research, I support it. He is pro-life, I am pro-choice. He thinks people need assault rifles, I disagree. He opposes Kyoto, I support it. He thinks Bolton is a good UN ambassador, whereas Bolton for me just conjures images of a large spanish bull in a fine Chinaware shop somewhere. He is pro death penalty, I am anti-death penalty. In his entire preisdency I have found myself in agreement with the man ONCE, and that is when he suggested we go to Mars. Of course he talked about that like once, then we hear nothing, but still.

I honestly can't be bogged down in a debate over Iraq and Bush that goes nowhere for 20 pages, so I'll just stick to my opinions methinks.

I guess the wheel of nationstates comes back to the Bush threads again.

What I really think about bush? I dislike the man severely. I wouldn't have voted for him. In fact, talking in political compass terms, he is the polar opposite of everything I believe. He's a jingoist, I'm a pacifist. He's a moralist, I'm a deist who supports seperation of church and state. He's a hardcore capitalist, I'm a democratic socialist. He opposes Stem Cell research, I support it. He is pro-life, I am pro-choice. He thinks people need assault rifles, I disagree. He opposes Kyoto, I support it. He thinks Bolton is a good UN ambassador, whereas Bolton for me just conjures images of a large spanish bull in a fine Chinaware shop somewhere. He is pro death penalty, I am anti-death penalty. In his entire preisdency I have found myself in agreement with the man ONCE, and that is when he suggested we go to Mars. Of course he talked about that like once, then we hear nothing, but still.

I honestly can't be bogged down in a debate over Iraq and Bush that goes nowhere for 20 pages, so I'll just stick to my opinions methinks.
Although I am not an American, I can agree with everything that you have stated, except that I am a bit more hard core on the war on Iraq, which I think is Bush's biggest mistake.

As far as Mars is concerned, it would be nice if he were to lead the expedition and it was leaving tomorrow.

The US would easily win a nuclear war with China. We've got more, and we can hit virtually anywhere in China, whereas they can only hit our west coast cities...

If you think anyone actually wins a nuclear war you must be really dumb.

I think you can make a convincing case that George W. Bush will be considered the worst president in American history. Future generations will scratch their head in wonderment that such an embarrassment was reelected.

While there is nothing I like more than a good Bush rant.....not this thread again??? Isn't there sometihing out there about copy cat threads?????
Won't somebody end the madness?

bush is probably americas biggest mistake

invading two countries in a row(afghanistan and iraq)...and now he wants to pick a fight with iran,syria and sudan

do you guys know that from the 22 members in the arab league.. bush is the only leader of any country throughout history to threaten over 50|% of the arab leagues members

libya,syria,yemen,sudan,somalia,palistine,morocco,lebanon,egypt,jordan,iraq,saudi arabia,qatar. all in 4 years

do you think that all of a sudden arabs and muslims juts decided to turn bad

its true that there are some fanatics, but that doesnt make arabs and muslims as terrorrists

...just stop the bulling dude...

americans werent liked throughout the world... there is no need to make them more not liked .....right???

:headbang: :mp5:

I think you can make a convincing case that George W. Bush will be considered the worst president in American history. Future generations will scratch their head in wonderment that such an embarrassment was reelected.

Indeed. To quote a great man, "In Europe, we’re just watching you, and going, “What are you doing?” "

Bush scares me a bit. Someone that stupid shouldn't have that much power, especially when he's surrounded by clever people who control him so efficiently.

We have some fantastic impressionists here (Rory Bremner, Jon Culshaw) who pull off Bush so well, which both enables people to make light of his low intelligence, but also highlight what a dangerous man he is.

I haven't heard a single thing from Bush that I agree with, he is my polar opposite. Which in itself isn't a problem for me, what is a problem is that his policies have an impact on other countries as well as his own. I don't like that we are being dragged down with you guys.

Actually the US is in Iraq for the oil, and I don't find it humourous at all.

No we are not in Iraq for oil CH! It is a rather known fact that we aren't. Stop spewing the idiotic propaganda because it ain't true.

Especially nuclear bombings, invasions and crippling of navies.

No nukes have been used! Yes we invaded 2 nations but now both nations are soveriegn again. And whose Navy are you talking about?

Edit: Sorry didn't know you were talking about the Pacific War! :D

It's noteworthy because he was admitting to running against peace and prosperity, i.e. he is the antidote to the two.

Talk about quoting out of context!

I can't write what really think President GW Bush. Its <censored>.

I think you can make a convincing case that George W. Bush will be considered the worst president in American history. Future generations will scratch their head in wonderment that such an embarrassment was reelected.

I disagree. I think he'll be rated somewhere in the middle of the pack. He has done some good things and he's done some bad things. He isn't the worst by far but he wasn't the best either.

Bush...is a guy..who does stuff.....Oh and my favorie!! :sniper: WAr! Okeee...that was bad..but uhhh..hes keeping the troops there too long..but then again if he leaves they will probably fall into a civil war. which is good because it will even out. The US had a civil war. look at us now.

No we are not in Iraq for oil CH! It is a rather known fact that we aren't. Stop spewing the idiotic propaganda because it ain't true.

If it is a known fact then there will be impartial evidence available to the public. And, for the record, "Bush says it's not about oil so it must be true" will not be considered impartial evidence! If you are so sure that it is a known fact, you must have seen this evidence, therefore you will be able to provide a source here and now, be it a web address, book ISBN and page reference, published report. Something.

The truth is we can never know what Bush and his friends really wanted to get out of it because we are not them (unless you are not telling us something very major about yourself!) but the fluctuating reasons announced by Bush as each one crumbles under scruitany, leads me to believe that the one reason he refuses to lean upon is a likely one.

If it is a known fact then there will be impartial evidence available to the public.

Yep, the evidence is in the fact that the price of oil is high, gas prices are still high ($2.20 per gallon here roughly), make up prices are also still up. Judging by the prices of everything, nope, it isn't about oil.

And, for the record, "Bush says it's not about oil so it must be true" will not be considered impartial evidence!

Read above statement. Apparently, economics is lost on ya.

If you are so sure that it is a known fact, you must have seen this evidence, therefore you will be able to provide a source here and now, be it a web address, book ISBN and page reference, published report. Something.

Yep, I have seen the evidence. Its called the prices of things that require oil to make.

The truth is we can never know what Bush and his friends really wanted to get out of it because we are not them (unless you are not telling us something very major about yourself!) but the fluctuating reasons announced by Bush as each one crumbles under scruitany, leads me to believe that the one reason he refuses to lean upon is a likely one.

I don't work for the government (at least not yet) but I've seen to much evidence that points AGAINST this being for oil. Economics for one. If this was for oil, the prices of products that are oil based are still up. If this was about oil, those prices would be down. If they were down, people will buy more of them and thus their profits will increase more than if they keep the prices higher than they are now. Since prices have actually gone UP and NOT DOWN, leads me to believe that this isn't about oil but of liberation of the Iraqi people and enforcing UN Resolutions and his violation of the UN Cease-fire.

Yep, the evidence is in the fact that the price of oil is high, gas prices are still high ($2.20 per gallon here roughly), make up prices are also still up. Judging by the prices of everything, nope, it isn't about oil.
Then how is the UK paying ~$5.64 per gallon? How is Germany paying $5.29 per gallon? How are the Netherlands paying ~$6.48 per gallon? Compared to the rest of the world, gas prices in the U.S. are low.

I support Bush and think that he has made the right decisions about Iraq so far. What I want to know is what you people think about Bush's policies in Iraq and why you think that way.
Actually anything I type here might be considered slander. So im going to say nothing at all, like mummy tought me.

Perhaps this will explain why the oil prices are so high

High Oil Prices: The War In Iraq Is To Blame (http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/16/opinion/edgault.html)

GENEVA Each day brings a new explanation for high oil prices. If it is not a new twist in the Yukos saga, it is a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. One day, it is low oil stocks in the United States; another, it is a threatened rebellion in the Niger Delta. And, amid all this, we are reminded repeatedly that it is all the fault of OPEC.
.
Yet, OPEC has increased its production by about three million barrels a day since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in an effort to curb the price spiral. OPEC's current output, more than 30 million barrels a day, is the highest since the late 1970s. At this level, supply exceeds anticipated consumption, even considering steep growth in demand in China and elsewhere. Global oil stocks expanded in recent months and are generally expected to return to normal levels by year-end. All other things equal, current oil supply would be more than adequate to drive prices downward.
.
Other factors prevent this from happening. If you want to pick a culprit, blame the occupation of Iraq. Sabotage and insecurity have prevented Iraqi oil production from recovering to pre-invasion levels. Attacks on Iraqi oil installations and repeated interruptions in exports make oil markets nervous and engender fear of a total loss of Iraq's current production of around two million barrels a day.
.
To be sure, real or perceived threats to oil production elsewhere, as well as refinery bottlenecks and hurricanes in the U.S., have contributed periodic support to oil prices. But without the Iraqi crisis and the tensions it has induced or enhanced throughout the Mideast, these events would not have been sufficient to keep prices at record levels. The possibility of sanctions on oil exports from Syria, Sudan and even Iran also contribute to the climate of market uncertainty.
.
Speculators, some of whom have profited handsomely from this year's price volatility, are focusing more on politico-military factors than on market fundamentals. In their eyes, the OPEC-led oversupply of the market has become irrelevant. They see the other side of the coin: that OPEC has moved closer to its production capacity. Today, OPEC's idle capacity, concentrated in Saudi Arabia, is just barely enough to replace Iraqi production in the event it is interrupted.
.
In late 1990 and early 1991, while Iraq occupied Kuwait, the world was left with even less idle capacity than is available today. But markets generally remained calm in the time around Desert Storm because they anticipated that Iraqi and Kuwaiti production would be restored later.
.
If today's idle capacity is insufficient to calm markets, is it because this time, in contrast to 1991, the U.S.-led coalition invaded and occupied Iraq? Is it because markets are increasingly alarmed at the pace of resistance to the occupation? Is it because traders have come to believe that there is no military solution to the conflict, and that the United States has no realistic exit strategy?
.
Meanwhile OPEC members have announced plans to increase their production capacities by about 350 thousand barrels a day before the end of 2004 and by at least a further five million a day by 2010.
.
OPEC might have achieved even higher production capacities already had it not been for sanctions imposed on some member countries. International oil companies were prohibited until recently from investing in Iraq by United Nations sanctions. American companies were restrained from investing in Libya, and continue to be prevented from investing in Iran, by U.S. legislation. Even the recent lifting of Libyan sanctions cannot lead immediately to an increase in production capacity; such investment requires years of planning and preparation.
.
Transitory "causes" of high oil prices are merely a distraction. It is clearly Iraq that stokes the present market conflagration. At the same time, the confrontational U.S. position vis-à-vis Iran and the carte blanche given by George W. Bush to Ariel Sharon have further heightened Mideast tensions and bolstered a fear of new attacks against energy-related targets throughout the region and beyond. The Bush administration's policies have indisputably raised anxiety over potential supply interruptions.
.
Major oil-consuming countries should now turn their attention to defusing the many sources of Mideast tension that are directly or indirectly sustaining current high oil prices.


You see? Even if was about oil, that wouldn't make the prices any lower since the circumstances don't allow for the oil production in Iraq to come back to the levels it was once at. So please, for all that is good and holyy, quit spouting the "It's not about oil, look at gas prices" line. It's really irritating and has no basis in reality or an intelligent discussion. Thank you.

I don't work for the government (at least not yet) but I've seen to much evidence that points AGAINST this being for oil. Economics for one. If this was for oil, the prices of products that are oil based are still up. If this was about oil, those prices would be down. If they were down, people will buy more of them and thus their profits will increase more than if they keep the prices higher than they are now. Since prices have actually gone UP and NOT DOWN, leads me to believe that this isn't about oil but of liberation of the Iraqi people and enforcing UN Resolutions and his violation of the UN Cease-fire.
Gas prices are down! Where is the money going? Perhaps this might explain it:
ExxonMobil reported record profits of $5 billion; Chevron, $1.6 billion; and Texaco, $833 million.

In the most recent study of profit per gallon, the American Petroleum Institute concluded that oil company profits amounted to an estimated 7.3 cents on each gallon sold

You see? Even if was about oil, that wouldn't make the prices any lower since the circumstances don't allow for the oil production in Iraq to come back to the levels it was once at. So please, for all that is good and holyy, quit spouting the "It's not about oil, look at gas prices" line. It's really irritating and has no basis in reality or an intelligent discussion. Thank you.
Well said.

if bush pis**s off china i will kill him before the nukes do!!! if he gets china nuking america and him nuking china, china will nuke americas allies, and i am not getting nuked cause of a stupid american that cant even eat pretzels properly!!!

if bush pis**s off china i will kill him before the nukes do!!! if he gets china nuking america and him nuking china, china will nuke americas allies, and i am not getting nuked cause of a stupid american that cant even eat pretzels properly!!!


:rolleyes:

if bush pis**s off china i will kill him before the nukes do!!! if he gets china nuking america and him nuking china, china will nuke americas allies, and I am not getting nuked cause of a stupid american that cant even eat pretzels properly!!!


Please shoosh! Bush already pissed off China long ago with the spy plane incident. Noone is going to nuke anyone else. The only ones getting radioactive are the Iraqis and the Afganis because of depleted uranium.

Yep, the evidence is in the fact that the price of oil is high, gas prices are still high ($2.20 per gallon here roughly), make up prices are also still up. Judging by the prices of everything, nope, it isn't about oil.

OMG, you're 12 aren't you? It's a very simple world you live in and it's very different from the one the rest of us inhabit.

Read above statement. Apparently, economics is lost on ya.

LOL! See, how these forum thingies work is that no one else sees what you've written until you post it. I couldn't read your first statement until you posted it and you posted the second statement in the same post!

Economics is far from lost on me, I understand it a lot better than you do, but you have no place saying that in the same post as the comment to which you refer! You really don't understand much, do you?

I believe we should strike now, while China is weak.


let us hope that you never have power beyond shift supervisor at the local drive through

Bush is far too Keynesian in his economic policies, which is what really matters. His prescription drug program was idiotic, as was his bail-out of the airlines after 9/11, and his failure to try to eliminate all kinds of stupid programs like that continue to waste American money, not to mention a plethora of other small programs and deals that weren't major news items.

The whole Iraq war thing isn't unexpected, every emperor needs his war, which is, like all wars America has entered since its revolution, fought for the sole purpose of taking money from taxpayers and the conquered to give it to the select few, usually war industries, but it looks like oil may have been involved in Iraq as well.

Any social policies he has enacted have been merely pandering to his base and nothing more.

Is he the worst president? NO WAY, that title would have to go to FDR with Wilson as a close second, but America hasn't had a good president since Coolidge, maybe Reagan so he's nothing new.

George W. Bush? I think he's a big government Leftie under the guise of a small government Rightie. Bush wouldn't know what a true Right-winger was if one...well...you get the idea, 'eh? No real surprise there.

if bush pis**s off china i will kill him before the nukes do!!!

Even in jest, you do know that it is illegal to make threats against a President's life, right?

And for the moonbats who are doomed to repeat the tired Michael Moore line of "it was for oil" than I have this to ask you: why? Why would we spend millions of dollars and risk thousands of soldiers' lives to take the place over when we could simply lift the sanctions against Saddam and buy it from him? Saddam Hussein would have jumped up and danced a little jig if he told him we wanted to start buying oil from him (he'd be able to use the profits to pump funds into his dead military and re-start his weapons programs). Honestly why?

Moreover, why the deception on Saddam's part? Why the years of being uncooperative with the Western world? Why did he kick out the inspectors? Why did he deny the inspectors access to sites and delay inspections? Why the thirteen years of defying the 'beloved' United Nations (a collection of tyrants, dictators, and sleezes from all across the world in desperate need of being dissolved)? Seventeen (eighteen?) UN resolutions passed and broken by Iraq. Why? On another level, Resolution 1441 gave him the time to turn over his weapons and reveal what he did or did not have. He refused to comply and faced the consequences as they were laid out in the resolution. Saddam got what was coming to him and now he sits in a jail cell, awaiting his trial by jury, and subsequent guilty sentence and impending execution. But hey, it must be good for him there. He continues to write his novels about Allah destroying the Western world, eat his muffins, and wipe his ass with his left hand all the while asking the guards to call him "President Hussein." Whatever works, I guess. :p

But, I expect, I'll recieve some answers here that mirror what I might find from the DU ("Bush is teh 3v1l!31354135!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and "becuase he's hitler!!!!one!!!! or perhaps "because all conservatives are facist nazis who hate everyone and want to take ov3r teh w0rld!!!!one!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!"). :rolleyes:

In terms of Japan and WWII as a side note:


Especially nuclear bombings

Entirely justified. We gave them a fair warning and they did not heed it. They paid the price for their lack of vision, as a certain Sith Lord might say.

, invasions

Needed to defeat Japan. An invasion of the home islands, however, would have cost us millions of lives.

and crippling of navies.

Justified, proper, and rather quite revenge for Pearl Harbor. I shed no tears for enemy soldiers who die in combat....whether they be British redcoats two hundred twenty nine years ago or Islamic terrorists today. You pick a fight with this nation; you get what's coming to you....and it usually involves meeting your maker....but that's another bucket of lobsters all together.....:)

No we are not in Iraq for oil CH! It is a rather known fact that we aren't. Stop spewing the idiotic propaganda because it ain't true.
As soon as I touch a nerve, it appears that you jump right into the old ad hominen attacks. I was going to reply at length about your continual denial regarding Bush's Iraq for oil campaign, but it appears that a few other posters have already set you straight. :)

Then how is the UK paying ~$5.64 per gallon? How is Germany paying $5.29 per gallon? How are the Netherlands paying ~$6.48 per gallon? Compared to the rest of the world, gas prices in the U.S. are low.

And take alook at some of their, shall we say, taxes? Also see what goes into their gasoline as well. That also goes towards the price of gasoline. Also, how many refineries do those places actualy have? How many do they have up and running? AGain, that goes into the price of gasoline.

Gas prices are down! Where is the money going? Perhaps this might explain it:

Why do I even bother. This doesn't prove your case that they are down. Seems like every day the price goes up some around here and its not only here that the price is going up.

Please shoosh! Bush already pissed off China long ago with the spy plane incident.

More like the other way around since it was a Chinese Jet that HIT the plane when it could've easily dodged it.

More like the other way around since it was a Chinese Jet that HIT the plane when it could've easily dodged it.

Really? Were you there? Are you a pilot? What was the visibility like? Couldn't the spy plane have easily dodged the chinese fighter jet? What was a spy plane doing snooping around China? Do you think that China has every right to send spy planes to check on what the US is up to without fear of being intercepted by the US? Where exactly did you get your information from, so as to make such a statement?

Really? Were you there? Are you a pilot? What was the visibility like? Couldn't the spy plane have easily dodged the chinese fighter jet? What was a spy plane doing snooping around China? Do you think that China has every right to send spy planes to check on what the US is up to without fear of being intercepted by the US? Where exactly did you get your information from, so as to make such a statement?

You really don't pay attention do you? No I guess you don't. You do know that the whole thing was investigated right?

You really don't pay attention do you? No I guess you don't. You do know that the whole thing was investigated right?

Okay so they investigated it. Where did you get your information? I don't sit over your shoulder all day looking at the information you do *cough*Fox*cough*. Care to answer the questions? Unless you can't...

Okay so they investigated it. Where did you get your information? I don't sit over your shoulder all day looking at the information you do *cough*Fox*cough*. Care to answer the questions? Unless you can't...

The results were widely reported on every network (and I still watch every network)

It is a known fact that our plane was bumped by the chinese fighter plane killing the chinese pilot! And I have to ask why a Chinese Fighter bumped our plane while it was over international waters. Now if it was in Chinese airspace, that'll be a different story but over international waters? (and that was in a cnn webpage article)

The results were widely reported on every network (and I still watch every network)

It is a known fact that our plane was bumped by the chinese fighter plane killing the chinese pilot! And I have to ask why a Chinese Fighter bumped our plane while it was over international waters. Now if it was in Chinese airspace, that'll be a different story but over international waters? (and that was in a cnn webpage article)


So the fighter pilot could have easily maneuvered out of the way but instead decided to hit the spy plane and caused his own death? Is that what you are saying?


...Chinese Jet that HIT the plane when it could've easily dodged it

Because I read that it was an accident. I also read that it was in international waters but I wouldn't want someone sending a spy plane to spy on my country either and if someone did I would support my country sending someone to scare them off (which is what I imagine China was trying to do because fighter jets are expensive and I doubt they sent him on A kamikazi mission). I guess you wouldn't back the US had that been what had gone down?

As soon as I touch a nerve, it appears that you jump right into the old ad hominen attacks.

Ad Hominem refers to a personal attack. Corneliu did not describe your personality or any details about you, therefore he's not making any ad hominem attacks.

So the fighter pilot could have easily maneuvered out of the way but instead decided to hit the spy plane and caused his own death? Is that what you are saying?

Because I read that it was an accident. I also read that it was in international waters but I wouldn't want someone sending a spy plane to spy on my country either and if someone did I would support my country sending someone to scare them off (which is what I imagine China was trying to do because fighter jets are expensive and I doubt they sent him on A kamikazi mission). I guess you wouldn't back the US had that been what had gone down?

It was an accident indeed. The Chinese sent a F-8 fighter to intercept the US EP-3 spy plane, but the fighter bumped into the EP-3 in the process and crashed.

It was an accident indeed. The Chinese sent a F-8 fighter to intercept the US EP-3 spy plane, but the fighter bumped into the EP-3 in the process and crashed.

Wong Wei. Hehe. :p

Ad Hominem refers to a personal attack. Corneliu did not describe your personality or any details about you, therefore he's not making any ad hominem attacks.
Two things to consider:

1. Corneliu suggested that I was "spewing idiotic propaganda", which fits the dictionary definition of an ad hominem:

ad hominem:

appealing to emotions: appealing to people's emotions and prejudices instead of their ability to think

2. Why are you so concerned about this matter, and/or why are you answering for Corneliu?

Two things to consider:

1. Corneliu suggested that I was "spewing idiotic propaganda", which fits the dictionary definition of an ad hominem:

Actually, no! I was saying that all liberals have been spewing the War of Oil propaganda and not just you! Therefor it isn't an ad hominem.

Actually, no! I was saying that all liberals have been spewing the War of Oil propaganda and not just you! Therefor it isn't an ad hominem.
And conservatives have been spewing War on Terror propaganda, not just you! :rolleyes:

And conservatives have been spewing War on Terror propaganda, not just you! :rolleyes:

I know that. But alwell. But you know what? Saddam did have ties to terror.

Two things to consider:

1. Corneliu suggested that I was "spewing idiotic propaganda", which fits the dictionary definition of an ad hominem:

ad hominem:

appealing to emotions: appealing to people's emotions and prejudices instead of their ability to think

2. Why are you so concerned about this matter, and/or why are you answering for Corneliu?


Actually, that didn't fall under the category of ad hominem. He was attacking your illogical, woe-is-us statement, not you.

I know that. But alwell. But you know what? Saddam did have ties to terror.

I'd like to see your references for this claim, since the 9/11 commission didn't find any.

I'd like to see your references for this claim, since the 9/11 commission didn't find any.

I'm guessing you are still thinking that I am referring to Al Qaeda?

Actually, no! I was saying that all liberals have been spewing the War of Oil propaganda and not just you! Therefor it isn't an ad hominem.
However when you throw in the word "idiotic", you tend to personalize the comment.

Nevertheless, consider these tidbits (there are many, many more):

U.S., U.K. Waged War on Iraq Because of Oil, Blair Adviser Says (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=ahJS35XsmXGg&refer=top_world_news)

The U.S. and U.K. went to war against Iraq because of the Middle East country's oil reserves, an adviser to British Prime Minister Tony Blair said.

Secret US plans for Iraq's oil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm)

The Bush administration made plans for war and for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attacks, sparking a policy battle between neo-cons and Big Oil, BBC's Newsnight has revealed.

Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis (http://www.sundayherald.com/print28285)

President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that 'Iraq remains a destabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East' and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US 'military intervention' is necessary.

If Iraq didn't have oil, Fallujah just would have been an Iraqi city that no-one in the western world would have ever known existed.

CH,

You never cease to amaze that you'll believe whatever is the exact opposite of the truth.

It is perfectly true that the primary reason the US is interested in the Persian Gulf area is oil, and it is perfectly true that people who think the US is the equivelant of old European Imperialist nations are simply...wrong.

I know that. But alwell. But you know what? Saddam did have ties to terror.
That's not why we invaded Iraq. I believe it was something along these lines:

Saddam Hussein has a history of mass murder. He possesses the weapons of mass murder. March 16, 2003

By Dick Cheney Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons, as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. inspectors have ended their search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in recent weeks, a U.S. intelligence official told CNN.

The United States is taking steps to determine how it received erroneous intelligence that deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was developing and stockpiling nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Wednesday.

So, we invade a country on "faulty intelligence" and say "oops." We still haven't taken any measures to find out how we got the "misinformation," but that doesn't matter, because enough people fell for other excuses, such as his nonexistent ties to Al Qaeda, that the mission was accomplished, that Saddam was a bad, bad man. And that Iraq was a bigger threat to Americans than North Korea.

Actually, that didn't fall under the category of ad hominem. He was attacking your illogical, woe-is-us statement, not you.
And now you are jumping into the fray saying that I am "illogical". Interesting to say the least.

And where do you get this "woe-is-us" sentiment? If I feel any sense of compassion, it is for the Bush sheepies who feel compelled to defend Bush's ideology.

Now all you have to do is prove that the statement that I made, that led to the ad hominem attack is in fact untrue, and "illogical". I wish you luck on your endeavour...you will need it. :)

That's not why we invaded Iraq. I believe it was something along these lines:







So, we invade a country on "faulty intelligence" and say "oops." We still haven't taken any measures to find out how we got the "misinformation," but that doesn't matter, because enough people fell for other excuses, such as his nonexistent ties to Al Qaeda, that the mission was accomplished, that Saddam was a bad, bad man. And that Iraq was a bigger threat to Americans than North Korea.

Oh Saddam had ties to AQ alright! Saddam talked to Bin Ladena nd told him to fuck off. That can be contrued by Cornyboy as ties to 9/11 and attacks on America.

Who was it that trained and armed AQ in the first place? FInd them and you find the real culprits.

And, yeah, where are the answers to how they got this "faulty intelligence" anyway? Haven't they figured out a way to sell this new set of lies to the American people yet? Maybe Rove is too busy working on covering his own ass at the moment and everyone else is lost without his manipulative genius.

I'd like to see your references for this claim, since the 9/11 commission didn't find any.
Remember, Corny's too suave to have to answer with facts. I think a few people have already established that.
*BEAUTIFUL plumage!*

I'm guessing you are still thinking that I am referring to Al Qaeda?
I'm guessing you AGAIN are dodging it with more republican switcheroo B.S.?

*thinks of the Patriot Act posts ...*

CH,

You never cease to amaze that you'll believe whatever is the exact opposite of the truth.
PrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOve it!
That's all anyone really asks that requires any real effort of you, ya know.

OMG, you're 12 aren't you? It's a very simple world you live in and it's very different from the one the rest of us inhabit.



LOL! See, how these forum thingies work is that no one else sees what you've written until you post it. I couldn't read your first statement until you posted it and you posted the second statement in the same post!

Economics is far from lost on me, I understand it a lot better than you do, but you have no place saying that in the same post as the comment to which you refer! You really don't understand much, do you?
C'mon, Corny just likes to get involved, be included! ;)

I can't write what really think President GW Bush. Its <censored>.
Maybe there's a link or two, or you can express it in song, interpretive dance, semaphore ....
maybe a whole production.

Did anyone see the musical The Producers? Remember "Springtime for Hitler"?

That's my view of Bush. A joke. Unfortunately, it's a joke packing nukes.

What do I think of a country who flouts international law to invade another? What do I think of a country that flagrantly abuses the human rights of war captives? Of a country that condones torture? Of a country that claims freedom and equality while constantly removing freedoms and legalising social inequalities?

Need I go on here?

CH,

You never cease to amaze that you'll believe whatever is the exact opposite of the truth.
Well Corny, perhaps one day you will amaze me by actually posting some "facts" to back up your opinions, but I realize that would be an overwhelming burden to you, and a damn near impossible feat.

If you don't have facts to support your argument, you will use personal attacks and when all else fails, you will just exit the thread. Your avoidance skills are impeccable. :rolleyes:

PrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOve it!
That's all anyone really asks that requires any real effort of you, ya know.
Frustrating huh?

Did anyone see the musical The Producers? Remember "Springtime for Hitler"?

That's my view of Bush. A joke. Unfortunately, it's a joke packing nukes.

What do I think of a country who flouts international law to invade another? What do I think of a country that flagrantly abuses the human rights of war captives? Of a country that condones torture? Of a country that claims freedom and equality while constantly removing freedoms and legalising social inequalities?

Need I go on here?

International law is nothing more than a bullshit attempt at controlling sovereign nations. There is no "international law", there is no "world government".

What rights do terrorists have? What's going on down in Guantanamo is not torture at all. How about we let loose all captives in Guantanamo? Where would they go? Back to Iraq, maybe, to cut off more infidels' heads and videotape it, put it on the internet?

Legalizing social inequalities? Hmmm....How so? Give me one example of this. Oh, wait, I'm sorry, you can't.

Well Corny, perhaps one day you will amaze me by actually posting some "facts" to back up your opinions, but I realize that would be an overwhelming burden to you, and a damn near impossible feat.

Oh excuse the fact that my facts come from those in the region and not those that are from the press.

If you don't have facts to support your argument,

Facts comes from those in the region.

Oh excuse the fact that my facts come from those in the region and not those that are from the press.

Facts comes from those in the region.
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case presented in Post # 115.

Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case presented in Post # 115.

SO are you telling me that I shouldn't listen to those that are actually IN THE DAMN REGION?

Did anyone see the musical The Producers? Remember "Springtime for Hitler"?

That's my view of Bush. A joke. Unfortunately, it's a joke packing nukes.

What do I think of a country who flouts international law to invade another? What do I think of a country that flagrantly abuses the human rights of war captives? Of a country that condones torture? Of a country that claims freedom and equality while constantly removing freedoms and legalising social inequalities?

Need I go on here?

Yea I know Saddam's Iraq was much like this err or are you talking about something else now LOL!!!

ffffff

SO are you telling me that I shouldn't listen to those that are actually IN THE DAMN REGION?
Listen all you like, but until they have been written into the history annals, or journalized is some official fashion, they are nothing but hearsay?

BTW, I was not just referring to your lack of evidence on this topic, I was speaking in general terms about most of your posts.

I think people confuse and forget what the ultimate goal of the terrorist is and that is jihad and to kill all the infidels , this is there motto this is what they use to recruit suicide bombers.

I now what everybody's thinking but im not naive enough to believe that America invaded Iraq for liberation reasons ,if that was the case there's countries in the world that are just as bad as iraq and the US does nothing but write letters to the u.n.

Conclusion we as individuals have to make a decision, based on the fact that world peace is out of the question , so do I want to be on the side of jihad, or the side that at minimum allows you to speak your mind , live life as i choose , worship a can of coke as my god without being stoned to death ,
for me the decision is easy.

I would rather take orders from Bush than Hamas.

Listen all you like, but until they have been written into the history annals, or journalized is some official fashion, they are nothing but hearsay?

Sorry but they are the best to get information from and what I'm hearing is the polar opposite of what your saying. I'll trust their word over yours because you have never gone to the region and they have.

BTW, I was not just referring to your lack of evidence on this topic, I was speaking in general terms about most of your posts.

Again, most of what I use are from sources more knowledgable than you. Sorry that they don't have a website for me to quote.

I suppose my only real problem with Bush is that he's a moron.

"They [the french] don't have a word for entrepreneur."

By the way, entrepreneur is a french word, for anyone who doesn't know.

I could just post a link to several of the stupid things he said, but I'll save you the time, and post several here.


"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."

"When I need a little advice about Saddam Hussein, I turn to country music."

"There ought to be limits to freedom." (a classic)

"The future will be better tomorrow."

"I've coined new words, like, misunderstanding and Hispanically."

And then, finally, this little gem:

"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning."

There. I thought they were funny until I realized that the man who said it also has control of the largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world. Then, I was very, very afraid.

Sorry but they are the best to get information from and what I'm hearing is the polar opposite of what your saying. I'll trust their word over yours because you have never gone to the region and they have.

Again, most of what I use are from sources more knowledgable than you. Sorry that they don't have a website for me to quote.
So in other words, you cannot post any kind of proof to back up your claims. That kinda narrows down your ability to debate the issues, but then I and several other posters have come to expect this posturing of yours.

Bush is an amoral ignorant megalomaiac. Intent on spreading "democracy" to oil bearing nations and destroying any semblance of civil rights here. I see him and his supporters as evidence of the decline of the educational system in this country.

what do i think about bush?...not a lot

Sorry but they are the best to get information from and what I'm hearing is the polar opposite of what your saying. I'll trust their word over yours because you have never gone to the region and they have.



Again, most of what I use are from sources more knowledgable than you. Sorry that they don't have a website for me to quote.

So what about all the people that you disagree with when it comes to U.S. politics that also live in the U.S.? Surely you can't dispute what they have to say since they live in the U.S.?

There are also conflicting reports from people who are in Iraq. People who actually LIVE in Iraq will disagree with you and those you are getting yoru hearsay from. People who served in teh armed forces and fought in Iraq have opinions that contradict yours and your Iraq -based sources. How can you disagree with them? This is why facts are important.

What do people really think about Bush?

what do people really think about a man who lied through his teeth in order to get us and Congress to initiate a war which, despite vainly costing over 25,000 lives and $185 billion, has actually made all of its original goals infinitely harder to achieve?

They reelected him.

Welcome to this modern world.

So in other words, you cannot post any kind of proof to back up your claims.

Why because what I"m using is information I receive from those that are on the fronts lines? Nice narrow view of your own! Do you only believe proof that are posted in links?

That kinda narrows down your ability to debate the issues, but then I and several other posters have come to expect this posturing of yours.

Sorry for using information from the frontlines without links! NOT!

What do people really think about Bush?

what do people really think about a man who lied through his teeth in order to get us and Congress to initiate a war which, despite vainly costing over 25,000 lives and $185 billion, has actually made all of its original goals infinitely harder to achieve?

They reelected him.

Welcome to this modern world.

Now here is another lie. Bush! Did not lie! He had faulty intel that was given to him by:

The French
Russians
Polish
Italians
Germans
Brits
CIA
Military Intel (oxymoron)

What do people really think about Bush?

what do people really think about a man who lied through his teeth in order to get us and Congress to initiate a war which, despite vainly costing over 25,000 lives and $185 billion, has actually made all of its original goals infinitely harder to achieve?

They reelected him.

Welcome to this modern world.
Isn't it wonderful?

Now here is another lie. Bush! Did not lie! He had faulty intel that was given to him by:

The French
Russians
Polish
Italians
Germans
Brits
CIA
Military Intel (oxymoron)

actually the "brits" received their intel from MI5 who received theirs from the french...so we are not entirely to blame either.

Isn't it wonderful?


Yeah it's liek living in a fairy tale...





... where the monsters are ruling the kingdom and evil has overpowered good.



Nice way to completely gloss over my post Cornman. Don't have an adequate response to it? Looks like Canuck is right about you.

Now here is another lie. Bush! Did not lie! He had faulty intel that was given to him by:

The French
Russians
Polish
Italians
Germans
Brits
CIA
Military Intel (oxymoron)
Yes he did. He said "we will find out how we got this faulty intelligence." Did they? No. Because people were stupid enough to believe the other reasons we went in later and they didn't need to--other than to keep their word, but that's not important in the Bush Administration.

actually the "brits" received their intel from MI5 who received theirs from the french...so we are not entirely to blame either.

Good point :D

Good point :D

corneliu *dances*

that "knowledge" was gained from "the truth behind the war" by that man from channel 4...then again he works on channel 4 so i suppose the data isnt that reliable...channel 4 being the TV equivelent of the daily mail or even..the mirror

Yes he did. He said "we will find out how we got this faulty intelligence." Did they? No.

Actually, they somewhat did. Answer? No human intelligence from the ground. See what happens when you rely solely on technology? Now they're pumping more money into human intelligence.

Why because what I"m using is information I receive from those that are on the fronts lines? Nice narrow view of your own! Do you only believe proof that are posted in links?

Sorry for using information from the frontlines without links! NOT!
You are just spinning your wheels and going nowhere fast. I am definitely bookmarking this thread....your comments are priceless.

Attention ladies and gentlemen, Corneliu no longer has to prove his points regarding Iraq because he has a pipeline directly to the front lines, and we just have to believe everything he says. :rolleyes:

You are just spinning your wheels and going nowhere fast. I am definitely bookmarking this thread....your comments are priceless.

Attention ladies and gentlemen, Corneliu no longer has to prove his points regarding Iraq because he has a pipeline directly to the front lines, and we just have to believe everything he says. :rolleyes:

i have a pipeline to the front lines :D my coisen drives in the royal logistics..he sent me a tin of Bazra sand :)

You are just spinning your wheels and going nowhere fast. I am definitely bookmarking this thread....your comments are priceless.

Bookmark it all you want. I don't honestly care. I'm tired of repeating myself. You obviously bought what the liberals have spoonfed you so you are no longer capable of recognizing a truth when you see it.

Attention ladies and gentlemen, Corneliu no longer has to prove his points regarding Iraq because he has a pipeline directly to the front lines, and we just have to believe everything he says. :rolleyes:

Attention ladies and gentlemen, CH no longer capable of thinking for himself.

i have a pipeline to the front lines :D my coisen drives in the royal logistics..he sent me a tin of Bazra sand :)
Any oil under the sand? Just kidding. I hope he stays safe. :)

i have a pipeline to the front lines :D my coisen drives in the royal logistics..he sent me a tin of Bazra sand :)

Not bad. My dad has been keeping me appraised of what is going on over there. Can't wait for him to come home. Nine more days till he comes home :)

Bookmark it all you want. I don't honestly care. I'm tired of repeating myself. You obviously bought what the liberals have spoonfed you so you are no longer capable of recognizing a truth when you see it.
You obviously bought what all the neocons have spoonfed to you and you are no longer capable of recognizing the truth. We're in a gridlock here. I've seriously thought about the possibility that Bush is telling the full truth about the Iraq war, but after he's said shit like, I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.
-- Dubya steals a line from George Orwell, Washington, D.C., Jun. 18, 2002
or And so, in my State of the -- my State of the Union -- or state -- my speech to the -- nation, whatever you wanna call it, speech to the nation -- I asked Americans to give 4,000 years -- 4,000 hours over the next -- of the rest of your life -- of service to America. That's what I asked. I said 2 -- 4,000 hours.
--Bridgeport, Connecticut, Apr. 9, 2002 My respect and trust in the man diminished to a certain level that made me require the opinions of sources other than the White House and FOX News to verify the White House's intent. So now it's your turn to consider the fact that America may not actually be immune to corruption, unless a Democrat is in office.

Attention ladies and gentlemen, CH no longer capable of thinking for himself.
lol, are we the ones spewing the same rhetoric that comes out of Bush's mouth and virtually nothing else?

Not bad. My dad has been keeping me appraised of what is going on over there. Can't wait for him to come home. Nine more days till he comes home :)
So then you can sign up, right? After all, once your dad is back you can go. Actually I think you said you could've gone anyway, you just didn't want to do all the paperwork because you're so conserned about the trees, you communist, homo-loving pinko, tree hugging hippy! :p

You obviously bought what all the neocons have spoonfed to you and you are no longer capable of recognizing the truth.

Ohh no I didn't! Nice try though. I'm still capable of thinking for myself no matter what the liberals try to do to me.

We're in a gridlock here. I've seriously thought about the possibility that Bush is telling the full truth about the Iraq war, but after he's said shit like,
or My respect and trust in the man diminished to a certain level that made me require the opinions of sources other than the White House and FOX News to verify the White House's intent. So now it's your turn to consider the fact that America may not actually be immune to corruption, unless a Democrat is in office.

*yawns* You know what? The Intel was faulty. I've already stated the intel was faulty. Not that I believed it anyway. I didn't care. The Humanitarian reasons were enough for me to support the action.

lol, are we the ones spewing the same rhetoric that comes out of Bush's mouth and virtually nothing else?

Sorry but I decided long ago that Saddam needed to be removed from power. Long before 9/11 and long before this administration. Apparently Bill Clinton agreed becuase if you noticed, regime change became our priority under his administration.

So then you can sign up, right? After all, once your dad is back you can go. Actually I think you said you could've gone anyway, you just didn't want to do all the paperwork because you're so conserned about the trees, you communist, homo-loving pinko, tree hugging hippy! :p

Guess what? Do to a disability that I have, I am unable to go into the service.

ok lets see..
i support the troops not the war
im not for bush but he didnt annoy/piss me off this week so ill say he "ok"(for now) :P
i watched a cnn report about him wanting to teach creationism (sp?) in school.. since i dont know about it much ill say its stupid.. BUT if they taught it in history and nothing else i wouldnt care but if it was in bio.. id be *annoyed*..
anywho i cant believ ppl actualy re-elected him.. no good

So then you can sign up, right? After all, once your dad is back you can go. Actually I think you said you could've gone anyway, you just didn't want to do all the paperwork because you're so conserned about the trees, you communist, homo-loving pinko, tree hugging hippy! :p
can you say "scumbag"? leave him alone.

can you say "scumbag"? leave him alone.

Nice name calling and an Ad homin attack at that. Nice.

Ohh no I didn't! Nice try though. I'm still capable of thinking for myself no matter what the liberals try to do to me.
That's why you continuously repeat whatever the President says? Don't deny it. I've heard you use the line "they hate us for our freedoms," which is not true at all. You say the same shit Bush says and you know it.

can you say "scumbag"? leave him alone.
can you say "flaming"?

That's why you continuously repeat whatever the President says? Don't deny it. I've heard you use the line "they hate us for our freedoms," which is not true at all. You say the same shit Bush says and you know it.

Oh? Then why are they attacking us when we have done absolutely nothing to them outside of supporting Israel? Since when is supporting a nation a crime? Oh wait! Its not. If they have to be pissed at any nation, it should be Great Britain!

Sorry, but I do think for myself. Apparently the only ones who don't think for themselves are liberals and that is why they'll continue to lose elections.

Guess what? Do to a disability that I have, I am unable to go into the service.
Wait, I thought the sole reason you couldn't go was because your father was enlisted and you're his only son? Now you have a disability? Well, that may be true, I'll just take it as the truth because this is the third time through this, I'm tired of arguing and I have more important things to do. Like go to work. So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get ready for work.

Oh? Then why are they attacking us when we have done absolutely nothing to them outside of supporting Israel? Since when is supporting a nation a crime? Oh wait! Its not. If they have to be pissed at any nation, it should be Great Britain!
It's not just America they're mad at. It's the entire Western culture, and the icon of the West is America, thus Bush can get away with the "they hate our freedoms" line. Read Resurrecting Empire, you'll be enlightened then. :D

It's not just America they're mad at. It's the entire Western culture, and the icon of the West is America, thus Bush can get away with the "they hate our freedoms" line. Read Resurrecting Empire, you'll be enlightened then. :D

Sorry but we're not an empire :D

can you say "flaming"?
*sigh* ive been through this before..
1. you fliamed too
2. before i start shit with you.. tell me your views on gays, bush, war, and what ever else you'd like to tell me

Oh? Then why are they attacking us when we have done absolutely nothing to them outside of supporting Israel? Since when is supporting a nation a crime? Oh wait! Its not. If they have to be pissed at any nation, it should be Great Britain!

Sorry, but I do think for myself. Apparently the only ones who don't think for themselves are liberals and that is why they'll continue to lose elections.


support Isreal with arms and money, which is used to kill palestinians :rolleyes:
Its called state sponsored Terrorism. :rolleyes:
Lets not forget that the U.S supported Saddam in the Iran Iraq war.

The US would easily win a nuclear war with China. We've got more, and we can hit virtually anywhere in China, whereas they can only hit our west coast cities...

You're thinking of North Korea.... China is more than capable of hitting any part of the US coast... The DF-5A has a range of ~ 18,000 miles. More than enough to hit any city within the United States.

support Isreal with arms and money, which is used to kill palestinians :rolleyes:
Its called state sponsored Terrorism. :rolleyes:

Most of the time Israel is defending itself from the Palestinian terror groups. Can't blame them for defending themselves.

That's completely untrue. All you have to do is achieve first strike, simeltaneously wiping out the nuclear capabilities of a hostile nation so that they cannot retaliate.

I believe we should strike now, while China is weak.

First strike doesn't do shit, anymore than against us. It just gives more validreasons for the other side to strike back.

Nukes have no effect against hardened structures; nor effect submerged platforms.

This thread title should be changed to:

What do people really think about Bush and his apologists?

Bush supporters are wildly misinformed. (http://winningargument.blogspot.com/2004/10/bush-supporters-are-wildly-misinformed.html)

US Majority Still Believe in Iraq's WMD, al-Qaeda Ties (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0422-09.htm)

The impact of Bush linking 9/11 and Iraq (http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html)

And the beat goes on, for some....

Most of the time Israel is defending itself from the Palestinian terror groups. Can't blame them for defending themselves.
I suppose that you have someone on the front lines that can verify this? :rolleyes:

I suppose that you have someone on the front lines that can verify this? :rolleyes:

No! That is called news media. Notice the words most of the time as well.

:rolleyes: Most of the time Israel is defending itself from the Palestinian terror groups. Can't blame them for defending themselves.


well, the "freedom fighters in Iraq" are defending themselves from the U.S military. Cant blame them for defending themselves from being a victim of collateral damages.
And they are defending their lands from U.S occupation. So stop bitching.

Oh? Then why are they attacking us when we have done absolutely nothing to them outside of supporting Israel? Since when is supporting a nation a crime? Oh wait! Its not. If they have to be pissed at any nation, it should be Great Britain!

Sorry, but I do think for myself. Apparently the only ones who don't think for themselves are liberals and that is why they'll continue to lose elections.

Only supporting Israel is in itself wrong. They are not at all innocent in this matter. The conflict in itself would fill volumes.

Too much time is wasted over whom is to blame for this mess. Finding a solution should be the effort.

Fact remains the Palis have nothing more then a shit hole. They have nothing. Even water availability is questionable.

There has to be a feasible Palistine for the mess to end. They have to have something that can be built. They have to have something for the men to do. They have to have access to the great Mosque.

Now that Yassim and Yassir are out of the picture, the fight factor has reduced.

Israel is half heartily making an effort with the elimination of the settlements.

Fact is the US is probably the one country that can make a diffence.

Having talked to a few Palis when I was over there, I can tell you that they hope we will someday.

Not all Palis are terrorists and want to kill Israelis. Not all Israelis want peace......

Heck what we need to do is snatch the leaders of all factions, stip search them and lock them in a room until a solution is sorted out. :p

:rolleyes:


well, the "freedom fighters in Iraq" are defending themselves from the U.S military. Cant blame them for defending themselves from being a victim of collateral damages.
And they are defending their lands from U.S occupation. So stop bitching.

Yea too bad the keep mistaking the civilians for US soldiers.

and how many innocent people have Isreal killed? :rolleyes:

seriously this shit about U.S being all innocent and "they hate us because of our freedom" that is espoused by bullshit Bush is ignorant and insulting to our intelligence.

:rolleyes:


well, the "freedom fighters in Iraq" are defending themselves from the U.S military.

Sorry but I don't buy that arguement. If they were truly defending themselves then the insurgency would be more iraqi than foreigner. Since most of these "freedom fighters" (read as terrorists) are from Syria (not part of Iraq), Saudi Arabia (not part of Iraq) and other mid east nations (that are not part of iraq) means that this isn't about Iraqi freedom. Also, why hit civilian targets if your beef is with the US military? Seems to me they are trying to spark a three way civil war.

Cant blame them for defending themselves from being a victim of collateral damages.

And what have the Iraqi civilians done to them? You know. Those people that are on the receiving end of suicide attacks?

And they are defending their lands from U.S occupation. So stop bitching.

We're not even occupying them. In case you have forgot, soveriegnty has been restored to Iraq and has been for over a year so what occupation are you talking about?

and how many innocent people have Isreal killed? :rolleyes:

How many innocent people have the palestinians killed?

yeah, soveriegnty has been restored by a puppet government hahahaha.

I am not really defending the suicide bombers, you moron. But they are not that different from people who claim to bomb democracy into Iraq. What goes around, comes around. Terrorism is probably a fact of life, if you want to reduce terrorism, than stop invading countries , assiting dictators when it suits your nation's interest and occupying other countrie. *yes. even in the name of "democracy""

Bush is an warmonger, an idiot and a homophobic son of a B****.

There you go.

Only supporting Israel is in itself wrong.

Why is it wrong to support Israel?

They are not at all innocent in this matter. The conflict in itself would fill volumes.

I will agree with you here. Both sides are guilty in this manner. I applaud the fact that Israel is going to pull out of Gaza. I just hope they do that.

Too much time is wasted over whom is to blame for this mess. Finding a solution should be the effort.

Hopefully, that'll happen. It might already be happening with the tearing down of those settlements I keep hearing about.

Fact remains the Palis have nothing more then a shit hole. They have nothing. Even water availability is questionable.

That might soon be changing.

There has to be a feasible Palistine for the mess to end. They have to have something that can be built. They have to have something for the men to do. They have to have access to the great Mosque.

Agreed just like Israel should have access to the wailing wall I think its called?

Now that Yassim and Yassir are out of the picture, the fight factor has reduced.

Thank God/Allah

Israel is half heartily making an effort with the elimination of the settlements.

About time too!

Fact is the US is probably the one country that can make a diffence.

Agreed

Having talked to a few Palis when I was over there, I can tell you that they hope we will someday.

Can only hope and pray.

Not all Palis are terrorists and want to kill Israelis. Not all Israelis want peace......

Again, correct.

Heck what we need to do is snatch the leaders of all factions, stip search them and lock them in a room until a solution is sorted out. :p

Alcatraz for that? :p

yeah, soveriegnty has been restored by a puppet government hahahaha.

Sorry but we didn't elect it. The Iraqi People elected it. Oops! That blows the puppet theory out of the water.

I am not really defending the suicide bombers, you moron.

Nice ad homin.

But they are not that different from people who claim to bomb democracy into Iraq. What goes around, comes around.

Except when they kill civilians on purpose right?

Terrorism is probably a fact of life, if you want to reduce terrorism, than stop invading countries , assiting dictators when it suits your nation's interest and occupying other countrie. *yes. even in the name of "democracy""

Also change what they are teaching in their madrasses wouldn't hurt either.

*sigh*

Just because there was an election, it doesnt mean that its fair or open or democratic. They probably need the U.S to apporve the candidates before they can be put on the ballot.

And democracy has to be inspired from within, I dont think that it can be bombed into one.

I think ..that when desperate and POWERLESS people are angry, they do crazy things. The average U.S citizen doesnt need to blow themselves up, because the government can do their work for them, they have a big military a big econonmy and they can destroy anyone without blowing themselves up at the same time.

I think..also..that people wouldnt be recruited if there's no rational argument to destroy western people. When you eliminate the reasons , the recuritment process will come to a halt. Thats how you reduce terrorism.

Sorry but I don't buy that arguement. If they were truly defending themselves then the insurgency would be more iraqi than foreigner. Since most of these "freedom fighters" (read as terrorists) are from Syria (not part of Iraq), Saudi Arabia (not part of Iraq) and other mid east nations (that are not part of iraq) means that this isn't about Iraqi freedom. Also, why hit civilian targets if your beef is with the US military? Seems to me they are trying to spark a three way civil war.


Where did you get this information? I heard a general himself say on the radio that the majority of the insurgent fighters are actually most likely from Iraq. If you don't like second hand information that cannot be verified then don't do it yoruself. I'll actually provide a link to a news source that backs me up:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2005/06/12/iraq_insurgents_seeking_political_role/


The bulk of Iraq's insurgents are believed to be homegrown fighters, predominantly loyalists of ousted dictator Saddam Hussein or soldiers from Iraq's disbanded Saddam-era army. Foreign Sunni Arab extremists like al-Zarqawi are believed responsible for the bulk of the country's suicide bombings and are opposed to the presence of U.S. forces in the region and the assumption of power by a Shiite-dominated government.


See there? Looks like the foreign fighters are the ones blowing up civilians.

*sigh*

Just because there was an election, it doesnt mean that its fair or open or democratic. They probably need the U.S to apporve the candidates before they can be put on the ballot.

Actually, I think it was called fair and open. So no. Iraq isn't a puppet state. Nice try though. And no. They didn't need our approval for the candidates before they were placed on the ballet.

And democracy has to be inspired from within, I dont think that it can be bombed into one.

Then I guess you missed those millions of people voting then when they voted for the representatives? Braving drive by shootings, I.E.D.s and other vicious methods of executing death and destruction?

I think..also..that people wouldnt be recruited if there's no rational argument to destroy western people. When you eliminate the reasons , the recuritment process will come to a halt. Thats how you reduce terrorism.

When you teach to hate a certain group of people, anyone that says we can help you kill this group of people, your going to sign up. What we need to do is get the middle east to redo the madrasses and begin arresting clerics that teach hate and extremism. That'll be a start to ending this mess.

and how many innocent people have Isreal killed? :rolleyes:

seriously this shit about U.S being all innocent and "they hate us because of our freedom" that is espoused by bullshit Bush is ignorant and insulting to our intelligence.

Those figures are rather hard to estimate. When you play the global politics game, everybody is an innocent civilian. Even if they are a fighter and just happened to be without their weapon.

Are the Israli casualties(ecluding the young and the old) really innocent? Espeically, when you have manditory army service and can be called up if needed?

Sorry but there isn't just one side that is more evil then the other.

Some palistinian actions I read/saw on the news when I was over there.

* Two boys (8 and 10) were found in a cave with their throats slit.

* A sniper shot a 6-8 month old and didn't try to shoot the mother.

* The pizza shop bomb. Women with kids and strollers.

* The girls night club bomb.

There is much more that goes on then the news agencies tell you. A nice little trick you don't hear about with those rock throwing kids you see all the time. Sometimes there is a gunmen hiding in the bunch of kids. When they get close enough, he pops up and starts shooting.

Again, neither side is more innocent then the other.

See there? Looks like the foreign fighters are the ones blowing up civilians.

Yea I can belive that. Too many of those Fedayien Sadaam bastards went missing on the invasion.

The suicide bombers are most probably foreign. It takes time to "create" one and you really can't set that up too easily if you have police and soldiers sniffing around all the time.

*sigh*

Just because there was an election, it doesnt mean that its fair or open or democratic. They probably need the U.S to apporve the candidates before they can be put on the ballot.

Need a source for that, or it's just tinfoil-hat.


And democracy has to be inspired from within, I dont think that it can be bombed into one.


Iraq once had a democracy-but the democratically elected government was killed in a coup during the bad-old-days of the Cold War (circa 1950's), the Coup was partially sponsored by the USSR, and had the support of Abdel Nassir's "Pan Islamic League". The Ba'ath party mocked 'elections' every year. Is it possible that if you remove the boot, the victim might actually get to his feet?




I think ..that when desperate and POWERLESS people are angry, they do crazy things. The average U.S citizen doesnt need to blow themselves up, because the government can do their work for them, they have a big military a big econonmy and they can destroy anyone without blowing themselves up at the same time.

Faulty logic. We have that ability, because our Government is, in a very real sense, more afraid of what me might do if they cracked down-to include the Military itself (Unlike much of the world, it is a hard deal, finding American troops that will use live ammunition on their own people. Other people, sure, but not their own.)
Even our Kook 'militia' nuts targeted Government buildings rather than shopping-malls, school buses, and neighbourhoods.


I think..also..that people wouldnt be recruited if there's no rational argument to destroy western people. When you eliminate the reasons , the recuritment process will come to a halt. Thats how you reduce terrorism.

You have to start with people who operate under western, post-renaissance/age-of-reason "Rational Thought" first. One of the things seeing the Third World in person teaches, is that things are that bad, because of the culture of the people living there. The Oppressed argument might have some validity-if the bombers were Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza. It's empty rhetoric when they're coming from Islamist states like Syria and Saudi Arabia, with 'good' educations, and access to heavy weapons.
Infrastructure in those countries isn't decaying hold-over from the Colonial period because the places are poor, it's that they are poor, because they let the infrastructure rot. similarly, suicide bombers from good families and militants aren't inspired by their own pain, but by strong faith and belief in a Heretical form of Islam.

Iraq once had a democracy-but the democratically elected government was killed in a coup during the bad-old-days of the Cold War (circa 1950's), the Coup was partially sponsored by the USSR, and had the support of Abdel Nassir's "Pan Islamic League". The Ba'ath party mocked 'elections' every year. Is it possible that if you remove the boot, the victim might actually get to his feet?



you think the U.S will ever remove the boot? The fact that they are now relying on Iran to train the Iraqis soliders tell me that Iraq will not improve that much. And the fact that i think deomcracy cannot be rushed into. It will take sometimes , much longer than the U.S would like for Iraq to be "normal" again.



Faulty logic. We have that ability, because our Government is, in a very real sense, more afraid of what me might do if they cracked down-to include the Military itself (Unlike much of the world, it is a hard deal, finding American troops that will use live ammunition on their own people. Other people, sure, but not their own.)
Even our Kook 'militia' nuts targeted Government buildings rather than shopping-malls, school buses, and neighbourhoods.



I dont understand this.




You have to start with people who operate under western, post-renaissance/age-of-reason "Rational Thought" first. One of the things seeing the Third World in person teaches, is that things are that bad, because of the culture of the people living there. The Oppressed argument might have some validity-if the bombers were Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza. It's empty rhetoric when they're coming from Islamist states like Syria and Saudi Arabia, with 'good' educations, and access to heavy weapons.
Infrastructure in those countries isn't decaying hold-over from the Colonial period because the places are poor, it's that they are poor, because they let the infrastructure rot. similarly, suicide bombers from good families and militants aren't inspired by their own pain, but by strong faith and belief in a Heretical form of Islam.

I am not inclined to believe that an educated person with relative wealth will blow themselves up soley for faith. U.S occupation in the middle east has something to do with and the other reasons I have already talked about from above, someone has made a study:






Suicide terrorism is rising around the world, but the most common explanations do not help us understand why. Religious fanaticism does not explain why the world leader in suicide terrorism is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a group that adheres to a Marxist/Leninist ideology, while existing psychological explanations have been contradicted by the widening range of socio-economic backgrounds of suicide terrorists. To advance our understanding of this growing phenomenon, this study collects the universe of suicide terrorist attacks worldwide from 1980 to 2001, 188 in all. In contrast to the existing explanations, this study shows that suicide terrorism follows a strategic logic, one specifically designed to coerce modern liberal democracies to make significant territorial concessions. Moreover, over the past two decades, suicide terrorism has been rising largely because terrorists have learned that it pays. Suicide terrorists sought to compel American and French military forces to abandon Lebanon in 1983, Israeli forces to leave Lebanon in 1985, Israeli forces to quit the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in 1994 and 1995, the Sri Lankan government to create an independent Tamil state from 1990 on, and the Turkish government to grant autonomy to the Kurds in the late 1990s. In all but the case of Turkey, the terrorist political cause made more gains after the resort to suicide operations than it had before. Thus, Western democracies should pursue policies that teach terrorists that the lesson of the 1980s and 1990s no longer holds, policies which in practice may have more to do with improving homeland security than with offensive military action. - Pape

you think the U.S will ever remove the boot? The fact that they are now relying on Iran to train the Iraqis soliders tell me that Iraq will not improve that much. And the fact that i think deomcracy cannot be rushed into. It will take sometimes , much longer than the U.S would like for Iraq to be "normal" again.

Yes we will. The days of colonies are over. The americans don't want to see our soldiers simply occupying a land for the hell of it.

Iraq is going to take time to build up. People here understand that and few think we are leaving anytime soon.


I am not inclined to believe that an educated person with relative wealth will blow themselves up soley for faith. U.S occupation in the middle east has something to do with and the other reasons I have already talked about from above, someone has made a study:

Actually there were many educated Palistinian suicide bombers. They were educated but didn't have a future. The "faith" part is a factor because the guys that work them to that state basically spell out a picture that life will be better in the afterlife.

If they had money, the probably wouldn't stay in Iraq.

all i would like to say is because of mr bush's decisions in iraq my countries capital city was bombed our prime minister has just pacified the ira who the american goverment funded and now they have found us a new threat well thank you mr bush from the residents of great britain how would you like it if britain funded al-queida :mad: :mad: :( :(

Frustrating huh?
Well, i always have Commando2 and Urantia II to compare Corny too .. at least (at times) Corny has a sense of humour. That's why i'm not QUITE as shrill with Corny as others ....

Still sad though ....

Oh excuse the fact that my facts come from those in the region and not those that are from the press.



Facts comes from those in the region.
Yearp, and the *Theocracy* of Straughn is located in the *REGION* ModZero, a medieval dukedom of T'aint. I read the forum for my region too - seems a bit less serious or due strenuous debate though.
;)

SO are you telling me that I shouldn't listen to those that are actually IN THE DAMN REGION?
....Rush Limbaugh exclusive broadcast contract with said *REGION*....
oh, integrity, we hardly knew ye ...

Sorry but I don't buy that arguement. If they were truly defending themselves then the insurgency would be more iraqi than foreigner. Since most of these "freedom fighters" (read as terrorists) are from Syria (not part of Iraq), Saudi Arabia (not part of Iraq) and other mid east nations (that are not part of iraq) means that this isn't about Iraqi freedom. Also, why hit civilian targets if your beef is with the US military? Seems to me they are trying to spark a three way civil war.
Prove that the majority of insurgents are not Iraqis. You can't because it is not true.

And what have the Iraqi civilians done to them? You know. Those people that are on the receiving end of suicide attacks?
I think the message that the insurgents are trying to pass on to fellow Iraqis is to stay away from occupation forces or they might get hurt.

We're not even occupying them. In case you have forgot, soveriegnty has been restored to Iraq and has been for over a year so what occupation are you talking about?
The US isn't "occupying" Iraq? Sovereignity has been restored? You believe the stuff you are typing? I don't because it is pure BS:

Long-term military presence planned (http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/040323-enduring-bases.htm)

Now U.S. engineers are focusing on constructing 14 "enduring bases," long-term encampments for the thousands of American troops expected to serve in Iraq for at least two years. The bases also would be key outposts for Bush administration policy advisers.

I think the message that the insurgents are trying to pass on to fellow Iraqis is to stay away from occupation forces or they might get hurt.

The only thing its doing is pissing off the civilians and turning them AGAINST the insurgency.

The US isn't "occupying" Iraq? Sovereignity has been restored? You believe the stuff you are typing? I don't because it is pure BS:[

You still spouting your pure BS?

Long-term military presence planned (http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/040323-enduring-bases.htm)

Now U.S. engineers are focusing on constructing 14 "enduring bases," long-term encampments for the thousands of American troops expected to serve in Iraq for at least two years. The bases also would be key outposts for Bush administration policy advisers.

And yet the Pentagon is planning on pulling out in the middle of next year! Yea that's right! Target date to begin the pull out is middle of next year.

Well, i always have Commando2 and Urantia II to compare Corny too .. at least (at times) Corny has a sense of humour. That's why i'm not QUITE as shrill with Corny as others ....

Still sad though ....
Yes it is extremely sad trying to parade opinion as "fact". :(

Yes it is extremely sad trying to parade opinion as "fact". :(

You have room to talk considering what you just posted.

The only thing its doing is pissing off the civilians and turning them AGAINST the insurgency.
Yet the insurgency is gaining in strength:

Cashed-up insurgents gain strength (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/22/1098316857610.html?from=storylhs)

You still spouting your pure BS?
Still waiting for you to prove that the insurgency is mostly from outside Iraq. Oops you can't. I invite you to prove the contrary to what I have posted.

Try this on for size:

TROUBLE IN THE WEST (http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=710865): According to the London-based think tank, the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), the insurgency in Iraq gains strength from the lawlessness of western Iraq: "Militarily, it's a security vacuum." According to a piece in the Los Angeles Times this week, much of western Iraq's Al Anbar province has been simply given over to the insurgency. "[Commanders] can't use the word, but we're withdrawing," said one U.S. military official. "Slowly, that's what we're doing."

And yet the Pentagon is planning on pulling out in the middle of next year! Yea that's right! Target date to begin the pull out is middle of next year.
Yeah sure they are. You don't follow domestic news?

Bush rejects timetable to pull out of Iraq (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/06/24/bush.iraq/)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush struck back Friday against growing calls to schedule a U.S. pullout from Iraq, vowing there would be no timetable to withdraw troops.

Perhaps those "front line" sources of yours in Iraq should tell Bush what is going on so that he won't look like an idiot by making the above kind of statements?

You have room to talk considering what you just posted.
Where are YOUR "facts" that refute anything that I have posted? You don't have any, or you are too lazy to do the work?

He's a good guy that's generally misunderstood and this translates to others as stupidity.

Does everyone have me on ignore? I already posted links that show that the US itself claims that the majority of insurgents are from iraq and that the ones blowing up civilians are the foreign fighters. I guess I made Corneliu look like a fool too many times for him to try to refute me anymore.

Does everyone have me on ignore? I already posted links that show that the US itself claims that the majority of insurgents are from iraq and that the ones blowing up civilians are the foreign fighters. I guess I made Corneliu look like a fool too many times for him to try to refute me anymore.
Not on ignore here. I saw your post of the article from the Boston Globe and it does an excellent job of dispelling the Cornmyth post. :)

Where are YOUR "facts" that refute anything that I have posted?

My facts come from those that are inside the theater of operations. My facts come from those I have talked to that have been inside said theater of operations. They are a tad more accurate picture than what the press is reporting.

You don't have any, or you are too lazy to do the work?

I have them CH but unfortunately they don't have a website for me to quote.

Any oil under the sand? Just kidding. I hope he stays safe. :)

well he said that if he gets injured then he gets more money, so he isnt going to report his in growing toenail until its bleeding..apart from that i am sure he will be quite safe

and corneliu i hope your dad doesnt have to wait any longer to come home..he is in the USAF isnt he?

Yet the insurgency is gaining in strength:



Tonnes of places have been reporting its weakening, i suppose it depends on what your opinion of the original war was

I support Bush and think that he has made the right decisions about Iraq so far. What I want to know is what you people think about Bush's policies in Iraq and why you think that way.

I think he was looking for an excuse to invade Iraq all along and 9/11 was good enough for him. Of course, if he had been looking for an excuse to invade Switzerland, I think 9/11 would have been good enough for him, too. :rolleyes:

and how many innocent people have Isreal killed? :rolleyes:

seriously this shit about U.S being all innocent and "they hate us because of our freedom" that is espoused by bullshit Bush is ignorant and insulting to our intelligence.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1106487810349_11?s_name=&no_ads=

"We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology," said the speaker. "Anyone who tries to help set up this system is part of it."


Sounds like they hate freedom.

Canada City'][
Sounds like they hate freedom.

No, they hate democracy. Freedom is a seperate concept.

No, they hate democracy. Freedom is a seperate concept.

So you're defending a al Qaeda leader?

Canada City']So you're defending a al Qaeda leader?

Yes, I am an evil scummy raghead with unshakeable faith in the rightness of Al-Quai'eda's holy work. Die heathen!

what I reallythink about President Bush is he is frickin hilarious. He cracks great jokes.

Yes, I am an evil scummy raghead with unshakeable faith in the rightness of Al-Quai'eda's holy work. Die heathen!
[cynicism] Do you deny it? then you're guilty. [/cynicizm]
But you are defending them.

and corneliu i hope your dad doesnt have to wait any longer to come home..he is in the USAF isnt he?

Yep :)

Roughly 8 days till he's home :)

[cynicism] Do you deny it? then you're guilty. [/cynicizm]
But you are defending them.

Actually I'm not. I hold them in the contempt I hold any terrorist whether they have official sanction or not. I also however put the effort into understanding them which leads me into conflict with people who don't.

In this case I pointed out to Canada City that by his evidence these terrorists do not 'hate our freedom' but instead hate our democracy. You can have freedom without democracy, and then again you can have slavery with it.

My facts come from those that are inside the theater of operations. My facts come from those I have talked to that have been inside said theater of operations. They are a tad more accurate picture than what the press is reporting.
You do not really expect people to believe this gobbledygook stuff? If their were facts relating to Iraq that were newsworthy you can bet that it would be reported, especially if it was of the positive variety that you have been trying to peddle.

I think it is a bit naive of you to expect anyone here to believe that you have a direct pipeline to what is going on in Iraq, and if you did, you sure as hell wouldn't have clearance to post it on this forum. Your father may be serving in Iraq, but that is one man's opinions. I have seen many conflicting statements here on NS from other Iraq war vets, so nice try.

I have them CH but unfortunately they don't have a website for me to quote.
If anything that you had was significant than it would be reported. You don't so you can't back up your claims.

BTW, I stated before, that not only do you not present "facts" regarding the Iraq situation, you cannot or will not post "facts" on a wide variety of other opinions that you have presented here on NS as "fact".

Hearsay is inadmissable in a court of law and a NS debate.

You do not really expect people to believe this gobbledygook stuff?

Believe what you will. I really don't care. Sorry that I actually listen to those that have more experience with what is going on then a vast majority of members on these boards. Sorry that I listen to them more than I do the press when I want real news from the region. Sorry that I have a better understanding of this conflict than most people.

If their were facts relating to Iraq that were newsworthy you can bet that it would be reported, especially if it was of the positive variety that you have been trying to peddle.

Then how come no one is reporting the fact that schools are open? The Fact that the Iraqi Army is getting stronger every day? The fact that the insurgency is weakening despite what the press is saying (no one listens to generals that are in the region apparently)?

I think it is a bit naive of you to expect anyone here to believe that you have a direct pipeline to what is going on in Iraq, and if you did, you sure as hell wouldn't have clearance to post it on this forum.

My so called pipeline is those that are in the region from my local military base. I listen to what they say because they were there and you are not. I don't care if you were against the war but do try to listen to those that were there. Have you ever seen the look on a child's face when they walked into a newly referbished school? Ever seen a look on a child's face when they entered school for the first time? I have talked to those that have CH. It brought them joy to see those kids faces. I am posting the unclassified things that I have heard about. Somethings are classified yes. Even I don't know classified information. If I did, then I would have to report it to the the Military JAG people because that would've been a breach of the UCMJ and National Security Laws.

Your father may be serving in Iraq, but that is one man's opinions. I have seen many conflicting statements here on NS from other Iraq war vets, so nice try.

And I bet that most of those were against this in the first place. However, that doesn't bely the fact that things are getting better inside the nation. No amount of spinning by the Liberals can undo that. Yes there are still problems, I won't deny that, but the fact remains that it is getting better whether you like it or not.

If anything that you had was significant than it would be reported. You don't so you can't back up your claims.

News Flash: If it bleeds it leads! That is the Press Corp motto. People don't want to hear the good news coming out of Iraq even though Good news does slip into an occassional news story. Those of us with people overseas do hear about all the good we are doing. I will probably hear even more good news when my father finally comes home.

BTW, I stated before, that not only do you not present "facts" regarding the Iraq situation, you cannot or will not post "facts" on a wide variety of other opinions that you have presented here on NS as "fact".

Why when this board is to the left of center? No amount of evidence will ever convince anyone. I post facts all the time! The problem is I get slammed because it doesn't conform to the lefts opinion on many issues. That is the problem with this world today. If you are not of a certain political stripe, you are immediately labeled and rediculed. I've seen it enough times on these boards that I am going to take a more neutral opinion. A Reasonable arguement is always made but for some reason, reasonable arguements aren't welcomed by either side of the political spectrum.

Hearsay is inadmissable in a court of law and a NS debate.

Every thing is technically hearsay since we are learning about through other means than what we are reading in the paper or seeing on the news.

What I'm not getting is how we can spend millions of dollars in Iraq to rebuild the place, when there are places in the US that need rebuilt. Earlier this summer I went to Orange Beach, Alabama, where Hurricane Ivan hit last September. It had been 10 months since it hit and there were piles of debris along the road....STILL! Not only is it a mess, but should another hurricane like Ivan, I shudder to think what all that flying debris would do. I personally think Bush needs to spend more money helping AMERICA, not another country were we have oil intrests.

very good question and heres a good answer Bush knows what hes doing and. If people didnt like him why did he get voted again last election

Tonnes of places have been reporting its weakening, i suppose it depends on what your opinion of the original war was
Perhaps the number of casualties (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm) will give some idea?

For the first 3 days of August (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties_current.htm), there have been 27 US troops killed.

Perhaps the number of casualties (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm) will give some idea?

For the first 3 days of August (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties_current.htm), there have been 27 US troops killed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64058-2005Mar1.html
http://www.dod.mil/news/Mar2005/20050308_119.html
http://www.tristatenews.com/printer_4869.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64058-2005Mar1.html
http://www.dod.mil/news/Mar2005/20050308_119.html
http://www.tristatenews.com/printer_4869.stm
Yes, Corny, I saw those web sites, but one month does not a war make. March 2005 was one of the better months for US troops when only 36 died in combat, but since then, the numbers have shot up to 52, 79, 77, 50, and 27 (3 days in August).

Yes, Corny, I saw those web sites, but one month does not a war make. March 2005 was one of the better months for US troops when only 36 died in combat, but since then, the numbers have shot up to 52, 79, 77, 50, and 27 (3 days in August).

And most of those by roadside bombs or operations directed against the insurgency.

Ok now that we have that history out of the way, the insurgency is weakening and will continue to weaken.

BTW: Way to ignore the General in Iraq. Once again, you fail to listen to those that have more information than you do :rolleyes:

And most of those by roadside bombs or operations directed against the insurgency.

Ok now that we have that history out of the way, the insurgency is weakening and will continue to weaken.

BTW: Way to ignore the General in Iraq. Once again, you fail to listen to those that have more information than you do :rolleyes:
Okay, let's see what the General has to say:

Wednesday, March 2, 2005;

Gen. John P. Abizaid, commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, said yesterday that the strength of the Iraqi insurgency is waning as a result of momentum from elections

The frame from the Times

June 24, 2005:

The top American commander for the Middle East said Thursday that the insurgency in Iraq had not diminished, seeming to contradict statements by Vice President Dick Cheney in recent days that the insurgents were in their "last throes."

Though he declined during his Congressional testimony to comment directly on Mr. Cheney's statements, the commander, Gen. John P. Abizaid, said that more foreign fighters were coming into Iraq and that the insurgency's "overall strength is about the same" as it was six months ago. "There's a lot of work to be done against the insurgency," he added.

That, of course, makes it seem as if the foreign fighters are additive (they're coming in and the strength remains the same, not they're coming in, yet the strength remains the same.)

From March to June, a contradiction of his own words.

Like I stated earlier, one month does not a war make.

*Snip*

The insurgency is waning yes. There may be a tick up in violence but that is because of.........Anyone? Anyone at all?

THE CONSTITUTION THAT IS ABOUT TO BE DONE AND VOTED ON

We saw the same tick up in violence prior to the elections as well and it didn't deter people from going to the polls.

Why would they do this now? Because they don't want to see the new constitution ratified because that means they have lost the fight in Iraq. Makes no difference to me. They are losing anyway. They know that if the Constitution gets ratified that all of their efforts have failed.

Interesting logic actually and actually a good strategy from their POV but attacking civilians is not a good way to get the people on your side. Just the opposite in fact is occuring.

The US would easily win a nuclear war with China. We've got more, and we can hit virtually anywhere in China, whereas they can only hit our west coast cities...
No one can win a nuclear war, even if the US "won" it would have cost millions of dead and anyone responsible for the war would be put to trial, no one is insane oneugh to do that.

The insurgency is waning yes. There may be a tick up in violence but that is because of.........Anyone? Anyone at all?

THE CONSTITUTION THAT IS ABOUT TO BE DONE AND VOTED ON

We saw the same tick up in violence prior to the elections as well and it didn't deter people from going to the polls.

Why would they do this now? Because they don't want to see the new constitution ratified because that means they have lost the fight in Iraq. Makes no difference to me. They are losing anyway. They know that if the Constitution gets ratified that all of their efforts have failed.

Interesting logic actually and actually a good strategy from their POV but attacking civilians is not a good way to get the people on your side. Just the opposite in fact is occuring.

It's really hard to say the terorrists are losing this war. They're kamikazes! killing them doesn't make any difference, they're martyrs anyway

It's really hard to say the terorrists are losing this war. They're kamikazes! killing them doesn't make any difference, they're martyrs anyway

True. Won't argue with that but the fact is that they are there to destabilize the nation into a civil war and that isn't happening. So in that regards, they are losing and when the Constitution goes to ratification and if it passes, they are effectively dealt a loss because they didnt prevent it from happening.

And I bet that most of those were against this in the first place. However, that doesn't bely the fact that things are getting better inside the nation. No amount of spinning by the Liberals can undo that. Yes there are still problems, I won't deny that, but the fact remains that it is getting better whether you like it or not.
How about a glimpse of what some of the regional experts say?

Unintended Consequences (http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20050728/cm_thenation/20050815forum)

Rosen: Equally worrying, Iraq has convinced many Muslims around the world that the United States, and perhaps the West, is their enemy. It has made the "clash of civilizations," a previously absurd and baseless theory, closer to a reality. It has united Islamist movements around the world with a common bond of feeling oppressed at the hands of the United States and its allies. In Falluja, I found men fighting in honor of slain Palestinian leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin. In Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda fighters who killed foreign workers have named their group after Falluja. And even in Mogadishu, Somalia, there are now shops named in honor of Hamas and Falluja.

Telhami: No one in Washington would have imagined that with all the human and financial costs of the war, the United States would find itself supporting a government headed by an Islamist, Mr. Jaafari, whose power is dependent on the blessing of a most influential clergyman, Ayatollah Sistani--a government that has close ties to Iran and that would conclude a military agreement with Tehran for the training of Iraqi forces, even as nearly 140,000 US troops remained on Iraqi soil. Nor would they have imagined the broader strategic consequences of the war to which Helena alluded: that Iraq would become the new breeding ground for Al Qaeda and for those who share its aims and methods; that in the Middle East and in much of the world, the United States would be perceived to be weaker in the short term than it was before the war; that its leverage vis-à-vis states like Iran and North Korea would have been reduced because US forces are stretched too thin in Iraq; and that because of the difficulties in Iraq, the United States would need others in the international community more, including governments it is trying to influence, such as those in Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

Cobban: The war has obviously pushed more people in the region further into the anti-American camp. This includes many of the area's democrats and moderates--the kind of people who would previously have been prepared to give Washington a chance.

Cole: Helena is correct that the Iraq War has propelled negative feelings toward the United States--not just in the immediate region but throughout the Muslim world. Between the summer of 2002 and spring of 2003, the number of Indonesians who viewed the US favorably fell from 61 percent to 15 percent, according to the Pew Research Center. Although Muslims already faulted the United States for lack of evenhandedness on the Arab-Israeli dispute, in recent years their estimation of the US has plummeted. According to Zogby, from summer 2002 to summer 2004, those who viewed the US favorably in Egypt fell from 15 to 2 percent. And respondents generally believed that Iraqis were worse off under American occupation.

A long time ago, I suggested that you should look at the bigger picture. You see from the above comments, that this is not just about a war in Iraq. It is about the Muslim world, and the consequences of US involvement in the Middle East.

If anyone is doing any "spinning" here, that would be you.

And "democracy" is the goal?

Draft Iraqi constitution elevates role of Islam
Proposal may erode women's rights in marriage, divorce, inheritance (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8714527/)

Yeah....it's getting better all the time. :rolleyes:

*snip*

Dude, you really have no clue as to how wars are fought do you? Of course there's going to be consequences. Anyone who doesn't think that is a fool. I knew there would be unexpected consequences going in. So no. no spinning here.

And "democracy" is the goal?

Draft Iraqi constitution elevates role of Islam
Proposal may erode women's rights in marriage, divorce, inheritance (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8714527/)

Yeah....it's getting better all the time. :rolleyes:

Notice the word MAY! Doesn't mean it will erode the rights. And yes, I did hear about the elevation of islam in their constitution. We'll have to wait and see what the constitution actually says before I can form a more valid opinion of it.

Dude, you really have no clue as to how wars are fought do you?
And just how are wars fought O Enlightened One? I patiently await the reply. :D

Of course there's going to be consequences. Anyone who doesn't think that is a fool. I knew there would be unexpected consequences going in. So no. no spinning here.
Consequences that should never have happened?

More Missing Intelligence (http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030707&s=dreyfuss)

But an even bigger intelligence scandal is waiting in the wings: the fact that members of the Administration failed to produce an intelligence evaluation of what Iraq might look like after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Instead, they ignored fears expressed by analysts at the Central Intelligence Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the State Department who predicted that postwar Iraq would be chaotic, violent and ungovernable, and that Iraqis would greet the occupying armies with firearms, not flowers.

Not surprisingly, perhaps, it turns out that the same people are responsible for both. According to current and former US intelligence analysts and government officials, the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans funneled information, unchallenged, from Ahmad Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress (INC) to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, who in turn passed it on to the White House, suggesting that Iraqis would welcome the American invaders.
I guess the CIA, DIA, and SD were right and Ahmad Chalabi was wrong.

Those are major consequences?

Notice the word MAY! Doesn't mean it will erode the rights. And yes, I did hear about the elevation of islam in their constitution. We'll have to wait and see what the constitution actually says before I can form a more valid opinion of it.
The fact that it is written in draft proposal must have the hackals of the US Admins standing straight up?

CH,

You do realize that intelligence in war is not an exact science right? There is always going to be something wrong with it regardless.

Yes they did great us with open arms. The Kurds most assuredly did as did most of the Shia in the south. Why I remember that a village offered to sacrifice a goat and through a party for the troops that liberated them from Saddam's rule but they had to turn them down because they were moving towards baghdad. The town mayor understood and wished them luck.

As for the Constitution, I'll have to read it before I can comment on it and render an opinion.

CH,

You do realize that intelligence in war is not an exact science right? There is always going to be something wrong with it regardless.

Yes they did great us with open arms. The Kurds most assuredly did as did most of the Shia in the south. Why I remember that a village offered to sacrifice a goat and through a party for the troops that liberated them from Saddam's rule but they had to turn them down because they were moving towards baghdad. The town mayor understood and wished them luck.

As for the Constitution, I'll have to read it before I can comment on it and render an opinion.
Yeah, it appears that a lot of intelligence was AWOL starting with George W. Bush

Here is a tidy article that tends to dispel your rose coloured glasses view of the situation in Iraq:

Iraq looks a lot like Vietnam. (http://gnn.tv/articles/205/Deja_Vu_in_Iraq)

Don't let the web site title prevent you from reading the story.

Yeah, it appears that a lot of intelligence was AWOL starting with George W. Bush

I'm not even going to go there. If your implying Bush was AWOL, the answer is no he isn't and the election is over so I'm not even going to discuss that.

Here is a tidy article that tends to dispel your rose coloured glasses view of the situation in Iraq:

Iraq looks a lot like Vietnam. (http://gnn.tv/articles/205/Deja_Vu_in_Iraq)

Don't let the web site title prevent you from reading the story.

Sorry but Iraq is nothing like Vietnam!

he runs with the population control- control population peoples

I'm not even going to go there. If your implying Bush was AWOL, the answer is no he isn't and the election is over so I'm not even going to discuss that.
I meant that the intelligence was AWOL. :rolleyes:

Sorry but Iraq is nothing like Vietnam!
According to this vet it is and he describes the similarities but you didn't bother to read it huh?

I served a tour of duty in Vietnam in 1970-71 and returned in the late 1980s for the first of several prolonged visits. Based on my experience, Iraq today looks more and more like the Vietnam I knew firsthand as an army intelligence officer more than three decades ago.

Strategy and Tactics

First, there are the obvious strategic and tactical similarities. American troops are fighting a guerrilla war in Iraq. The terrain is difficult, and the insurgents know it better than we do. The enemy attacks at a time and place of its own choosing, avoiding troop concentrations where U.S. firepower can be brought to bear.......

Iraq’s Tet Offensive?

In this regard, the April 2004 insurrection in Iraq could well have a political impact on the Bush administration similar to the impact of the 1968 Tet offensive on the Johnson administration. The Tet offensive exposed the consistently positive U.S. message in Vietnam to be a lie. In turn, the savage attacks of Iraqi insurgents almost 40 years later dealt a heavy blow to the credibility of the Bush administration. In both cases, events on the ground suggested that the U.S. government, not only was not in control, but didn’t have a plan.

Wars of Choice

Vietnam and Iraq were both wars of choice. And they are also similar in that deceit and misrepresentation was employed by the U.S. government, first to engage U.S. forces and then to keep them there. President Bush took us to war on the grounds that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and had ties to al Qaeda. No weapons of mass destruction have been found and no ties to al Qaeda have been discovered. We were also told our troops would be greeted with open arms and flowers, which didn’t last long, and that Iraqi oil would pay for most of the reconstruction. Now told we’re in Iraq to nurture democratic self-government, political reconstruction is also going badly.

In retrospect, it is clear we had no idea what we were getting into when we marched into Vietnam, and the same appears true in Iraq. In reference to Vietnam, President Johnson pledged in April 1965: “We will not withdraw, either openly or under the cloak of a meaningless agreement.” Four decades later, President Bush pledged: “We’ve got to stay the course and we will stay the course” in Iraq.

I have removed many paragraphs but the gist is there.

I meant that the intelligence was AWOL. :rolleyes:

Bush is intelligent wether you want to believe that or not so his intel isn't AWOL. Also, CIA was using intel from foriegn services as well as those gathered by electronic means. I always say that the best intel is intel gathered from intel agents on the ground and not gathered via satellite.

*snip*

And according to other vets, it isn't.

I won't say Bush is an idiot, he does have Karl Rove after all. But I will say I truly believe his "kind" I say his kind, because I don't think it's just him, are truly very dangerous men, who could give a rats ass about freedom, it's just a way to sell their agenda to the public. Thankfully he's only got a few years left and he's gone forever! I suppose they could elect a worse one in 2008, but I doubt it. I would hope that the majority of Americans have learned their lesson with Bush, and most polls as of late would support they have. I hope and even believe you might see a much more moderate president be elected in 2008. That is assuming the Republicans win the White House again, which is also not a given. However to me, he's a very dangerous man with an agenda. It scares the crap out of me in fact.

Of course, this is my opinion and some may not share it. Which is their right.

Yes we will. The days of colonies are over. The americans don't want to see our soldiers simply occupying a land for the hell of it.

Iraq is going to take time to build up. People here understand that and few think we are leaving anytime soon.



You do know that there are other ways to colonize a country without making them into actual colonies right?

My facts come from those that are inside the theater of operations. My facts come from those I have talked to that have been inside said theater of operations. They are a tad more accurate picture than what the press is reporting.



I have them CH but unfortunately they don't have a website for me to quote.
NOTHING in the vastness of the internet?/?????
??????????
???????????
????????

:eek:
.....?????

*ack*

"The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending time investigating it." —George W. Bush, on the probe into how CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity was leaked, Washington D.C., July 18, 2005

"I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend." —George W. Bush, on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005

"I was going to say he's a piece of work, but that might not translate too well. Is that all right, if I call you a 'piece of work'?" —George W. Bush to Jean-Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg, Washington, D.C., June 20, 2005

"The relations with, uhh — Europe are important relations, and they've, uhh — because, we do share values. And, they're universal values, they're not American values or, you know — European values, they're universal values. And those values — uhh — being universal, ought to be applied everywhere." —George W. Bush, at a press conference with European Union dignitaries, Washington, D.C., June 20, 2005
"You see, not only did the attacks help accelerate a recession, the attacks reminded us that we are at war." —George W. Bush, on the Sept. 11 attacks, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005

"And the second way to defeat the terrorists is to spread freedom. You see, the best way to defeat a society that is — doesn't have hope, a society where people become so angry they're willing to become suiciders, is to spread freedom, is to spread democracy." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 8, 2005
"It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word of — and the allegations — by people who were held in detention, people who hate America, people that had been trained in some instances to disassemble — that means not tell the truth." —George W. Bush, on an Amnesty International report on prisoner abuse at Guantanamo Bay, Washington, D.C., May 31, 2005 (Listen to audio)

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio)

"We discussed the way forward in Iraq, discussed the importance of a democracy in the greater Middle East in order to leave behind a peaceful tomorrow." —George W. Bush, Tbilisi, Georgia, May 10, 2005

"I think younger workers — first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government — promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2005

"It means your own money would grow better than that which the government can make it grow. And that's important." —George W. Bush, on what private accounts could do for Social Security funds, Falls Church, Va., April 29, 2005

"It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"We expect the states to show us whether or not we're achieving simple objectives — like literacy, literacy in math, the ability to read and write." —George W. Bush, on federal education requirements, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"He understands the need for a timely write of the constitution." —George W. Bush, on Prime Minister Iyad Allawi of Iraq, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"Well, we've made the decision to defeat the terrorists abroad so we don't have to face them here at home. And when you engage the terrorists abroad, it causes activity and action." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"But Iraq has — have got people there that are willing to kill, and they're hard-nosed killers. And we will work with the Iraqis to secure their future." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

"We have enough coal to last for 250 years, yet coal also prevents an environmental challenge." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 20, 2005

"Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it." —George W. Bush, Kirtland, Ohio, April 15, 2005

"I'm going to spend a lot of time on Social Security. I enjoy it. I enjoy taking on the issue. I guess, it's the Mother in me." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005

"We look forward to analyzing and working with legislation that will make — it would hope — put a free press's mind at ease that you're not being denied information you shouldn't see." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 14, 2005

"I want to thank you for the importance that you've shown for education and literacy." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2005

"I understand there's a suspicion that we—we're too security-conscience." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005

"If they pre-decease or die early, there's an asset base to be able to pass on to a loved one." —George W. Bush, on Social Security money held in private accounts, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, March 30, 2005

"In this job you've got a lot on your plate on a regular basis; you don't have much time to sit around and wander, lonely, in the Oval Office, kind of asking different portraits, 'How do you think my standing will be?'" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005

"In terms of timetables, as quickly as possible — whatever that means." —George W. Bush, on his time frame for shoring up Social Security, Washington D.C., March 16, 2005

"I repeat, personal accounts do not permanently fix the solution." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 16, 2005

"This notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the table." —George W. Bush, Brussels, Belgium, Feb. 22, 2005

"If you're a younger person, you ought to be asking members of Congress and the United States Senate and the president what you intend to do about it. If you see a train wreck coming, you ought to be saying, what are you going to do about it, Mr. Congressman, or Madam Congressman?" —George W. Bush, Detroit, Mich., Feb. 8, 2005

Got a Bushism?
Send it to politicalhumor.guide@about.com

Email This Page to a Friend

"Because the — all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those — changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be — or closer delivered to what has been promised. Does that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a series of things that cause the — like, for example, benefits are calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate — the benefits will rise based upon inflation, as opposed to wage increases. There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the promised benefits grow, if those — if that growth is affected, it will help on the red." —George W. Bush, explaining his plan to save Social Security, Tampa, Fla., Feb. 4, 2005

"You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —George W. Bush, to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

"After all, Europe is America's closest ally." —George W. Bush, Mainz, Germany, Feb. 23, 2005

"I'm also mindful that man should never try to put words in God's mouth. I mean, we should never ascribe natural disasters or anything else to God. We are in no way, shape, or form should a human being, play God." —George W. Bush, ABC's 20/20, Washington D.C., Jan. 14, 2005

"I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your sacrifice." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005

"I speak plainly sometimes, but you've got to be mindful of the consequences of the words. So put that down. I don't know if you'd call that a confession, a regret, something." —George W. Bush, speaking to reporters, Washington, D.C., Jan. 14, 2005

"Who could have possibly envisioned an erection — an election in Iraq at this point in history?" —George W. Bush, at the white House, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005

"We need to apply 21st-century information technology to the health care field. We need to have our medical records put on the I.T." —George W. Bush, Collinsville, Ill., Jan. 5, 2005

"I believe we are called to do the hard work to make our communities and quality of life a better place." —George W. Bush, Collinsville, Ill., Jan. 5, 2005

"It's a time of sorrow and sadness when we lose a loss of life." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 21, 2004

"They can get in line like those who have been here legally and have been working to become a citizenship in a legal manner." —George W. Bush, on immigrant workers, Washington, D.C., Dec. 20, 2004

"And so during these holiday seasons, we thank our blessings." —George W. Bush, Fort Belvoir, Va., Dec. 10, 2004

"Justice ought to be fair." —George W. Bush, speaking at the White House Economic Conference, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2004

"The president and I also reaffirmed our determination to fight terror, to bring drug trafficking to bear, to bring justice to those who pollute our youth." —George W. Bush, speaking with Chilean President Ricardo Lagos, Santiago, Chile, Nov. 21, 2004

"We thought we were protected forever from trade policy or terrorist attacks because oceans protected us." —George W. Bush, speaking to business leaders at APEC Summit, Santiago, Chile, Nov. 20, 2004

"I always jest to people, the Oval Office is the kind of place where people stand outside, they're getting ready to come in and tell me what for, and they walk in and get overwhelmed in the atmosphere, and they say, man, you're looking pretty." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Nov. 4, 2004

"I have a record in office, as well. And all Americans have seen that record. September the 4th, 2001, I stood in the ruins of the Twin Towers. It's a day I will never forget." —George W. Bush, Marlton, New Jersey, Oct. 18, 2004

"After standing on the stage, after the debates, I made it very plain, we will not have an all-volunteer army. And yet, this week — we will have an all-volunteer army!" —George W. Bush, Daytona Beach, Fla., Oct. 16, 2004 (Watch video or listen to audio)

"I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004 (Watch video or listen to audio)

"The truth of that matter is, if you listen carefully, Saddam would still be in power if he were the president of the United States, and the world would be a lot better off." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"When a drug comes in from Canada, I wanna make sure it cures ya, not kill ya... I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you. And one — my worry is that it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent thought there was weapons there." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"Let me see where to start here. First, the National Journal named Senator Kennedy the most liberal senator of all." —George W. Bush, referring to Sen. Kerry, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"I own a timber company? That's news to me. Need some wood?" —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"Another example would be the Dred Scott case, which is where judges, years ago, said that the Constitution allowed slavery because of personal property rights. That's a personal opinion. That's not what the constitution says. The constitution of the United States says we're all — you know, it doesn't say that. It doesn't speak to the equality of America." —George W. Bush, second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

"The enemy understands a free Iraq will be a major defeat in their ideology of hatred. That's why they're fighting so vociferously." —George W. Bush, first presidential debate, Coral Gables, Fla., Sept. 30, 2004

"You know, it's hard work to try to love her as best as I can, knowing full well that the decision I made caused her loved one to be in harm's way." —George W. Bush, first presidential debate, Coral Gables, Fla., Sept. 30, 2004

"I think it's very important for the American President to mean what he says. That's why I understand that the enemy could misread what I say. That's why I try to be as clearly I can." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"I saw a poll that said the right track/wrong track in Iraq was better than here in America. It's pretty darn strong. I mean, the people see a better future." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"I'm not the expert on how the Iraqi people think, because I live in America, where it's nice and safe and secure." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"It's the Afghan national army that went into Najaf and did the work there." —George W. Bush, referring to Iraqi troops during a joint press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, Washington, D.C., Sept. 23, 2004

"The CIA laid out several scenarios and said life could be lousy, life could be OK, life could be better, and they were just guessing as to what the conditions might be like." —George W. Bush, New York City, Sept. 21, 2004

"Free societies are hopeful societies. And free societies will be allies against these hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 17, 2004

"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —George W. Bush, Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip or listen to audio)

"We will make sure our troops have all that is necessary to complete their missions. That's why I went to the Congress last September and proposed fundamental — supplemental funding, which is money for armor and body parts and ammunition and fuel." —George W. Bush, Erie, Pa., Sept. 4, 2004

"Had we to do it over again, we would look at the consequences of catastrophic success, being so successful so fast that an enemy that should have surrendered or been done in escaped and lived to fight another day." —George W. Bush, telling Time magazine that he underestimated the Iraqi resistance

"They've seen me make decisions, they've seen me under trying times, they've seen me weep, they've seen me laugh, they've seen me hug. And they know who I am, and I believe they're comfortable with the fact that they know I'm not going to shift principles or shift positions based upon polls and focus groups." —George W. Bush, interview with USA Today, Aug. 27, 2004

"I hope you leave here and walk out and say, 'What did he say?'" —George W. Bush, Beaverton, Oregon, Aug. 13, 2004

"So community colleges are accessible, they're available, they're affordable, and their curriculums don't get stuck. In other words, if there's a need for a certain kind of worker, I presume your curriculums evolved over time." —George W. Bush, Niceville, Fla., Aug. 10, 2004

"Let me put it to you bluntly. In a changing world, we want more people to have control over your own life." —George W. Bush, Annandale, Va, Aug. 9, 2004

"As you know, we don't have relationships with Iran. I mean, that's — ever since the late '70s, we have no contacts with them, and we've totally sanctioned them. In other words, there's no sanctions — you can't — we're out of sanctions." —George W. Bush, Annandale, Va, Aug. 9, 2004

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 (Watch video clip or listen to audio)

"Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a — you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip or listen to audio)

"I cut the taxes on everybody. I didn't cut them. The Congress cut them. I asked them to cut them." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004

"I wish I wasn't the war president. Who in the heck wants to be a war president? I don't." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004

"We stand for things." —George W. Bush, Davenport, Iowa, Aug. 5, 2004

'I don't know why you're talking about Sweden. They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.'' --George W. Bush, during an Oval Office meeting with Rep. Tom Lantos, as reported by the New York Times

"Give me a chance to be your president and America will be safer and stronger and better." —Still-President George W. Bush, Marquette, Michigan, July 13, 2004

"I mean, if you've ever been a governor of a state, you understand the vast potential of broadband technology, you understand how hard it is to make sure that physics, for example, is taught in every classroom in the state. It's difficult to do. It's, like, cost-prohibitive." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 24, 2004

"And I am an optimistic person. I guess if you want to try to find something to be pessimistic about, you can find it, no matter how hard you look, you know?" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 15, 2004

"I want to thank my friend, Senator Bill Frist, for joining us today. You're doing a heck of a job. You cut your teeth here, right? That's where you started practicing? That's good. He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004

"I'm honored to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen who had his hand cut off by Saddam Hussein." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 25, 2004

"Like you, I have been disgraced about what I've seen on TV that took place in prison." —George W. Bush, Parkersburg, West Virginia, May 13, 2004

"My job is to, like, think beyond the immediate." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 21, 2004

"They could still be hidden, like the 50 tons of mustard gas on a turkey farm." —George W. Bush, on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Washington, D.C. , April 13, 2004

"This has been tough weeks in that country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004

"Coalition forces have encountered serious violence in some areas of Iraq. Our military commanders report that this violence is being insticated by three groups." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004

"Obviously, I pray every day there's less casualty." —George W. Bush, Fort Hood, Texas, April 11, 2004

"We're still being challenged in Iraq and the reason why is a free Iraq will be a major defeat in the cause of freedom." —George W. Bush, Charlotte, N.C., April 5, 2004

"Earlier today, the Libyan government released Fathi Jahmi. She's a local government official who was imprisoned in 2002 for advocating free speech and democracy." —George W. Bush, citing Jahmi, who is a man, in a speech paying tribute to women reformers during International Women's Week, Washington, D.C., March 12, 2004

"The march to war hurt the economy. Laura reminded me a while ago that remember what was on the TV screens — she calls me, 'George W.' — 'George W.' I call her, 'First Lady.' No, anyway — she said, we said, march to war on our TV screen." —George W. Bush, Bay Shore, New York, Mar. 11, 2004
"God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear." —George W. Bush, Los Angeles, Calif., March 3, 2004

"Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 19, 2004

"Joe, I don't do nuance." —George W. Bush to Sen. Joseph Biden, as quoted in Time, Feb. 15, 2004

"The march to war affected the people's confidence. It's hard to make investment. See, if you're a small business owner or a large business owner and you're thinking about investing, you've got to be optimistic when you invest. Except when you're marching to war, it's not a very optimistic thought, is it? In other words, it's the opposite of optimistic when you're thinking you're going to war." —George W. Bush, Springfield, Mo., Feb. 9, 2004

"But the true strength of America is found in the hearts and souls of people like Travis, people who are willing to love their neighbor, just like they would like to love themselves." —George W. Bush, Springfield, Mo., Feb. 9, 2004

"In my judgment, when the United States says there will be serious consequences, and if there isn't serious consequences, it creates adverse consequences." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"There is no such thing necessarily in a dictatorial regime of iron-clad absolutely solid evidence. The evidence I had was the best possible evidence that he had a weapon." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been — some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started — but nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, affected the economy." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"We do know that Saddam Hussein had the intent and the capabilities to cause great harm. We know he was a great danger….What we don't know yet is what we thought and what the Iraqi Survey Group has found, and we want to look at that." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. Feb. 2, 2004

"My views are one that speaks to freedom." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"See, one of the interesting things in the Oval Office — I love to bring people into the Oval Office — right around the corner from here — and say, this is where I office, but I want you to know the office is always bigger than the person." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"More Muslims have died at the hands of killers than — I say more Muslims — a lot of Muslims have died — I don't know the exact count — at Istanbul. Look at these different places around the world where there's been tremendous death and destruction because killers kill." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004 (Listen to audio clip)

"Just remember it's the birds that's supposed to suffer, not the hunter." —George W. Bush, advising quail hunter and New Mexico Sen. Pete Domenici, Roswell, N.M., Jan. 22, 2004

"For diplomacy to be effective, words must be credible, and no one can now doubt the word of America." —George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 20, 2004

"I want to thank the astronauts who are with us, the courageous spacial entrepreneurs who set such a wonderful example for the young of our country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C. Jan. 14, 2004

"I was a prisoner too, but for bad reasons." —George W. Bush, to Argentine President Nestor Kirchner, on being told that all but one of the Argentine delegates to a summit meeting were imprisoned during the military dictatorship, Monterrey, Mexico, Jan. 13, 2004


"One of the most meaningful things that's happened to me since I've been the governor — the president — governor — president. Oops. Ex-governor. I went to Bethesda Naval Hospital to give a fellow a Purple Heart, and at the same moment I watched him—get a Purple Heart for action in Iraq — and at that same — right after I gave him the Purple Heart, he was sworn in as a citizen of the United States — a Mexican citizen, now a United States citizen." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 9, 2004

"And if you're interested in the quality of education and you're paying attention to what you hear at Laclede, why don't you volunteer? Why don't you mentor a child how to read?" —George W. Bush, St. Louis, Mo., Jan. 5, 2004

"So thank you for reminding me about the importance of being a good mom and a great volunteer as well." —George W. Bush, St. Louis, Mos., Jan. 5, 2004
jesus thats huge