NationStates Jolt Archive

simple question: what is the reason behind your political or philisophical standpoint?
tell as much or little as you like...



me, i'm communist. the reason is i'm an idealist - always have been, its in my nature. i always think of should or could be, not what is.
i got set on the path of left-wing-ism by my parents, being ardent Labour supporters and ex-hippies - my dad was a big part of the anti-Vietnam student demonstrations in london in the late 60's :D
i lived as a spoilt rich kid as the parents' company did well until the Tory engineered recession of '92 (and hence harbour projected resentment against the tories for this). after that point we've lived the other side of the tracks, and thats helped me appreciate money isn't everything, and the pursuit and love of money, and especially power, is rotten.
i'm also a relatively emotional person... i feel strong compassion and empathy for others in a worse situation than myself - i've never really had a problem 'putting myself in the other person's shoes', unlike many people i know...
so couple all that with fantastical idealism and some hippie-esque philisophical thinking, and you end up with... me :) :)


so what about you?

simple question: what is the reason behind your political or philisophical standpoint?
tell as much or little as you like...



me, i'm communist. the reason is i'm an idealist - always have been, its in my nature. i always think of should or could be, not what is.
i got set on the path of left-wing-ism by my parents, being ardent Labour supporters and ex-hippies - my dad was a big part of the anti-Vietnam student demonstrations in london in the late 60's :D
i lived as a spoilt rich kid as the parents' company did well until the Tory engineered recession of '92 (and hence harbour projected resentment against the tories for this). after that point we've lived the other side of the tracks, and thats helped me appreciate money isn't everything, and the pursuit and love of money, and especially power, is rotten.
i'm also a relatively emotional person... i feel strong compassion and empathy for others in a worse situation than myself - i've never really had a problem 'putting myself in the other person's shoes', unlike many people i know...
so couple all that with fantastical idealism and some hippie-esque philisophical thinking, and you end up with... me :) :)


so what about you?

Wow, we're almost exactly alike in this sense... Except, my dad was never a hippie :p.

Parents had a giant impact on my becoming Christian.

Upbringing as a mildly bullied child left me quite sympathetic for all sorts of people - thus a little socialist.

Christian teachings of love, compassion and sharing left me more socialist.

Finding out that the world is unfair at a young age because I was naturally inquisitive made me even more socialist.

Christian doctrine and traditional Chinese values have left me morally quite conservative.

Being over sympathetic led to rebound, which means I'm less socialist than before and more selfish nowadays.

Wow, we're almost exactly alike in this sense... Except, my dad was never a hippie :p.
seperated at birth? ooooooooooooohhhhhhh :eek:
*waves arms wildly in a spooky fashion*

I'm liberal.

I'm incredibly emotional, much like you in fact. I cry all the time, it can get incredibly embarassing. I'm one of those people who cry at weddings, it's just, all that happiness..

I don't know how my parents really affected this. I bet my fathers a conservative. He's also a bigot. Maybe I'm who I am because I don't want to end up like my father. Womanising A-hole. My mother doesn't really care about politics, so she wasn't a great influence there.

I realise I'm not poor. I go to a great international school, I get cool digital stuff for my birthday and for christmas. But compared to my friends, we're not doing all that well financially. I can get quite jealous of my friends, how they don't have to worry about getting kicked out of school because your mother can't pay, about getting what they want, when they want it. I really hate the gap between the rich and the poor, which is probably another reason why I think the way I do.

simple question: what is the reason behind your political or philisophical standpoint?
tell as much or little as you like...



me, i'm communist. the reason is i'm an idealist - always have been, its in my nature. i always think of should or could be, not what is.
i got set on the path of left-wing-ism by my parents, being ardent Labour supporters and ex-hippies - my dad was a big part of the anti-Vietnam student demonstrations in london in the late 60's :D
i lived as a spoilt rich kid as the parents' company did well until the Tory engineered recession of '92 (and hence harbour projected resentment against the tories for this). after that point we've lived the other side of the tracks, and thats helped me appreciate money isn't everything, and the pursuit and love of money, and especially power, is rotten.
i'm also a relatively emotional person... i feel strong compassion and empathy for others in a worse situation than myself - i've never really had a problem 'putting myself in the other person's shoes', unlike many people i know...
so couple all that with fantastical idealism and some hippie-esque philisophical thinking, and you end up with... me :) :)


so what about you?

I'm as stubborn as they come, thanks to my old man. We grew up in a well off family and have stayed that way. I am a conservative because of the values instilled upon us by my parents. We were taught personal responsibilty and working for what you wanted and need. My parents were loaded, but the only things given to me were my basic needs (clothing, food, etc), sure I got toys as a kid but that's it.

When I was old enough I had to work hard to earn an allowance of $2 a week from my folks. When I was 14 I had to find a job in the summer on dads orders. I worked on a farming helping with the hay and whatnaught. When I was 16 I worked a full time job and still went to school. If I wanted wheels, I had to work and save for it.

When I graduated high school, my dad gave me 4 options. Get a job and work full time and pay rent, join the military, go to college and pay my own way through but live at home for free and have meals, or move out. I chose the military, and spent 8 years in the USMC, then went to college for 2 years.

I now have family of my own, am successful in my field (security), and hope to do for my children what my old man did. He is my hero. That is who I am, and I'd like to think that if he were around today, he'd be proud of how I and his other 5 sons turned out, thanks to him.

Maybe I'm who I am because I don't want to end up like my father. Womanising A-hole.

You can say asshole. Dickhead, even.

:D

I go to a great international school.

Which one?

...hope to do for my children what my old man did. He is my hero.

...Judging by your description, your dad wasn't all that great.

You can say asshole. Dickhead, even.

:D

Okay! Evil asshole with the whole second-life thing going on. You know I haven't seen him in ages, but he sends me monthly emails that are exactly the same as the ones he sends to my sister.

Which one?

We come from the CIS. The Chinese International School. We come from the East, we come from the West, we learn from each other and that way is best. You'll know us in our RED AND BLUE. THE CIS WILL ALWAYS HAVE A WELCOME FOR YOU.

Oh gosh, I loved that song. I can't believe they changed it. To something slow, with absolutely no rhythm whatsoever. At least this one was catchy and upbeat. Even if it did sound really quite stupid.

Okay! Evil asshole with the whole second-life thing going on. You know I haven't seen him in ages, but he sends me monthly emails that are exactly the same as the ones he sends to my sister.

Hmm. Sounds a lot like my dad...

...Judging by your description, your dad wasn't all that great.


How so?

For me, it had alot to do with my upbringing and where I lived. The people I lived around were generally liberal individuals, who grew up in arguably the most liberal state in the US; Massachusetts.

Hence...it seems only natural that I grew up to be a liberal-minded citizen.

Hmm. Sounds a lot like my dad...

People with evil fathers unite!

You'd think with such a strong Christian background, he'd have a little more love to give. Hah.

We come from the CIS. The Chinese International School. We come from the East, we come from the West, we learn from each other and that way is best. You'll know us in our RED AND BLUE. THE CIS WILL ALWAYS HAVE A WELCOME FOR YOU.

Oh gosh, I loved that song. I can't believe they changed it. To something slow, with absolutely no rhythm whatsoever. At least this one was catchy and upbeat. Even if it did sound really quite stupid.

NO WAY! What Year are you?? Telegram me! :D

How so?

1: Your parents had a lot of money, yet he made you pay rent.

2: He forced you to pay for college yourself, or find an alternative.

I'm not saying he's bad, but from what I gather, he wasn't that great, either.

People with evil fathers unite!

You'd think with such a strong Christian background, he'd have a little more love to give. Hah.

Actually, I wouldn't. See, where I come from, people with "strong christian backgrounds" are usually the bigots, rednecks, inbreds, intolerants, and general social cockroaches.

Not quite sure why I am an Anarchist, though I began to be interested in it around age 13 (to I ditched it for a couple of years later and recently rediscovered it).

My parent are both immigrants, both from Namibia they left either 1979 or 1980 due to a civil war (I think). Though they came over pretty poor, my dad had a medical degree so for all my life we weren't rich, but we were a long way off being poor. This has left me very sympathetic to the plight of immigrants.

My parents are Catholic and vaguely left wing economically (my mum more than my dad), thinking it is the moral duty of the well-off to help the poor. They are slightly morally permissive (my mum is pro-gay rights, partially due to her having one sister and one brother who are gay. I'm not sure about my dad, but I think he is similar. Though both of them were very "worried" about me, so they are probably slightly NIMBYish* also. Not sure about abortion though). They are also fairly socially authoritarian, they were a bit more strict than other parents I know, but not oppressive (I mean I was given chores I had to do, but I was aloud to say, think, read, watch whatever I wanted and associate with whomever I wanted. Within reason), I had a fairly happy childhood. Though my dislike of Thatcher comes straight from them through a little influence from my environment. At home I never heard a good word said about her, and she was not a popular person in my neighbourhood (Salford) either. Anyone know the rhyme wich begins "Here's Maggie Thatcher" with the palm presented and a stick woman drawn on?

Probably the root of my ideology comes from the fact I went to a Catholic school that was very strict. And though I never outright rebelled (I was never suspended or expelled, though I came close to it) I never really followed the rules, or did what I was told, or even learned what I was told to learn. As the head teacher remarked "He[Me] is doing well learning his own curriculum, if only he put the same effort into the school curriculum." I also never really mastered the whole 'respect for authority' thing either, frequently talking back to teachers when they said something I disagreed with (I was never rude to them though, always polite and courteous). Though the school tolerated me, since I never actually broke the rules, just bent them a lot (except for the smoking and drug one).


*NIMBY: Not In My Back Yard

Actually, I wouldn't. See, where I come from, people with "strong christian backgrounds" are usually the bigots, rednecks, inbreds, intolerants, and general social cockroaches.

Okay I get your point. My father's a bigot. He wouldn't let my sister get taught by a filipino teacher in pre-school, because he didn't like her accent. Or something evil like that. My mother never took him to parent-teacher confrences ever again.

You should meet my grandfather though. He is a Christian, and he is the nicest man ever. I start to tear thinking about him, I haven't seen him in nearly 10 years, we can't afford to. He's so sweet, he'll talk to anybody he sees, even if he knows where he's going, he'll stop and ask for directions and then talk about the weather and what not.

How my father is his son, I don't know.

Communist because Im not a selfish wanker
Revolutionary because Im not passive in the face of injustice

Okay I get your point. My father's a bigot. He wouldn't let my sister get taught by a filipino teacher in pre-school, because he didn't like her accent. Or something evil like that. My mother never took him to parent-teacher confrences ever again.

You should meet my grandfather though. He is a Christian, and he is the nicest man ever. I start to tear thinking about him, I haven't seen him in nearly 10 years, we can't afford to. He's so sweet, he'll talk to anybody he sees, even if he knows where he's going, he'll stop and ask for directions and then talk about the weather and what not.

How my father is his son, I don't know.

Yeah, your dad's a genuine dickhead. Sad thought, really... I feel for anyone who has shitty parents.

Yeah, your dad's a genuine dickhead. Sad thought, really... I feel for anyone who has shitty parents.

If you've got shitty parents and you know it and you're willing to change it, then your kids will be the happiest in the world. :)

Yeah, your dad's a genuine dickhead. Sad thought, really... I feel for anyone who has shitty parents.

I have a friend who used to speak japanese and do karate. His dad made him give them up- literally made him throaw away his books to take up more 'british' activities. I feel really sorry for the guy because in debates I frequently change his mind on issues but he says he respects his dad too much not to agree with him. Bullet in the head syndrome

Yeah, your dad's a genuine dickhead. Sad thought, really... I feel for anyone who has shitty parents.

Mm, very true.

However I do have a great mum, who taught me the difference between being a father and being a dad.

And I have great friends.

I have a friend who used to speak japanese and do karate. His dad made him give them up- literally made him throaw away his books to take up more 'british' activities. I feel really sorry for the guy because in debates I frequently change his mind on issues but he says he respects his dad too much not to agree with him. Bullet in the head syndrome

Japanese are very into respecting their elders. In some cases it's annoying, but it's definately special that people respect their parents so much that they won't mouth off to them.

Objective, realism-based Empiricism.

For me to represent an opinion which is overtly or covertly based on subjective feelings determined by background of race, religion, parenting, or environmental influences would be embarrassing because it inherently illegitimizes my opinion and casts me in a mold of mindless follower. I need no person to develop a mode of thought in ANY medium to be put in a group which I can choose from and join the group in following. Every cognitive view I hold is based on unbiased empirical observation, using statistical probabilities and historical precedent to determine frameworks of logical thought. As Mohandas Gandhi said, "The only devils in the world are the ones within each of us. That is where the battles must be fought." Unfortunately, the inability of independent thought among the vast majority of mankind leads toward group thought, which often leads toward delusions of preeminence, which leads toward the declaration and pursuit of enemies of the cause. The group itself is based on lies and misperceptions, fueled all the further by blind faith based on the need to belong to and believe in something. Reference to membership in a group as helping formed one's opinion axiomatically disqualified the pertinent opinion to irrelevance, having based itself on dogma rather than impartial interpretation of reality. Unfortunately, when groups themselves dominate general matters, objectivity becomes a pretense at best, and specific ideology becomes the norm.

Idealism is well natured, but when ideas and reality diverge, the pursuit of those ideals often continues, and the discrepancy therein can often lead to horrible outcomes, even with the original intention being well meant. Adherence to specific groups of thought laid down by others merely removes one's face, removes the individuality of one's voice, to be lost in a crowd in the belief that the voice strengthens that greater voice and legitimizes it, when in reality it merely is an attempt to bolster one's own belief of correctness to disguise inability to formulate and articulate wholly original, unbiased judgments.

1: Your parents had a lot of money, yet he made you pay rent.

2: He forced you to pay for college yourself, or find an alternative.

I'm not saying he's bad, but from what I gather, he wasn't that great, either.

I think his father was trying to make certain he was self reliant. It appears to have worked. Also he must have done something right because his son is still very fond of him.

Many people are not taught to appreciate what they have. Instead they take for granted what family and friends do for them. I think his father did a fine job.

This is not to say that there isn't other methods of parenting that wouldn't have had similar results.

I came from a large family. My parents worked hard and instilled a work ethic in us. I was taught to make my bed at age 3. I was washing dishes for the family by age 7. At age 10 I was doing the laundry along with numerous other chores. I appreciate my upbringing because I am not afraid of getting my hands dirty and this work ethic had helped my GPA stay high when I was in university. :D . Also my family was like a clan. When one family member was hurting we would rally around them.... well most of the time :)

I guess you could call me a libertarian/anarchist, although more of the idealist, talky variety, not the bomb throwing one. My parents are fiscally conservative, and maybe just a little social conservative (although my dad favors both abortion and the death penalty). Basically, growing up I was given a lot of freedom to think however I wanted, so I have a strong inclination to support freedom in as many forms as possible. I do recognize that some laws are needed (if we were good enough people for communism to work, we wouldn't need government in the first place), but I kinda leery of giving the government (or any group for that matter, i.e. religion and business) too much control over my life or the lives of others.

I'm liberal.

I'm incredibly emotional, much like you in fact. I cry all the time, it can get incredibly embarassing. I'm one of those people who cry at weddings, it's just, all that happiness..

I don't know how my parents really affected this. I bet my fathers a conservative. He's also a bigot. Maybe I'm who I am because I don't want to end up like my father. Womanising A-hole. My mother doesn't really care about politics, so she wasn't a great influence there.

i better just be glad that i've never been to a wedding - my control over my emotions is getting worse of late :p i've been to a wedding reception, but i was (we were all) so drunk i don't think it counts :D
i have, however, been to a number of friends' funerals over the last few years, and i do pretty much loose control at them :(
this may be why i value human life and deplore war, etc.
i also used to be a bit of a bully at (primary) school (though i was bullied myself, too) cos i was always bigger than the other kids - and now i'm a pacifist to put a lid on those destructive tendancies and not hurt anybody anymore.

i was also dyslexic and have always had to work harder than the other kids - showing me from a very early age that not everyone is equal in one way, but that we are all the same when it comes down to it - part of my socialist thinking. i had a friend who was more severely dyslexic than myself, and we always worked together. i think that helped me to appreciate that some people just need help and you can't just turn your back on them; and not knowing them is not an excuse not to help.




I realise I'm not poor. I go to a great international school, I get cool digital stuff for my birthday and for christmas. But compared to my friends, we're not doing all that well financially. I can get quite jealous of my friends, how they don't have to worry about getting kicked out of school because your mother can't pay, about getting what they want, when they want it. I really hate the gap between the rich and the poor, which is probably another reason why I think the way I do

yeah same here. for the last 10+ years i've seen my parents work themselves silly (7 days a week, 6am to 7-8pm every day, no holidays) to be able to afford to send me to a decent school - hence why i think education is so important (and my my NS nation spends 25%+ of expenditure on education;)) and i hate seeing them struggle to pay the fees & bills. i hate the fear and stress it causes. one of the reasons, i'm sure, why i shy away from stress in general and am looking for a laid-back lifestyle of some sort....
probably why i became a pothead :D

I believe in conservatism because I support a free market and i am compassionate about others, that is why I am anti-abortion. the only problem is, there is no true conservative party anywhere in the world, the british tories used to be quite near to it, but ever since john major they've become obsessed with "modernising" and have lost touch with true conservatives, and the republicans were actual conservaties under reagan and bush senior, but now bush junior has got in, hes more obsessed with foreign policy than home policy, yet he is still more of a conservative than michael howard or iian duncan smith will ever be.

Anyone know the rhyme wich begins "Here's Maggie Thatcher" with the palm presented and a stick woman drawn on?

ooh, no. do tell!

my hate of Thatcher stems originally from my parents, but also subsequently from finding out for myself about what she did in office (and i don't like what she did, to say the least)


Communist because Im not a selfish wanker
Revolutionary because Im not passive in the face of injustice
straight-up and to the point, i see, DHomme :p :D


If you've got shitty parents and you know it and you're willing to change it, then your kids will be the happiest in the world. :)
exactly - OHidunno and Pot, i hope you'll learn from your parents' mistakes.
exactly the reason why my own parents are so nice (especially my mum)

COnservative.

I have aspergers syndrome, (look it up if u dont kno it) simply it means, i have no so good social social skills, but HIGHLY intelligent.

When i was younger, i used to love people, of course i was different due to my condition, i would rather draw in a corner of the playground then play, and of course, because i was different, i was bullied untill i was 14.

Because i had this treatment and the schools never cared i thought bad of people, and i went to boarding school. A traditional boarding school,, where of course i was taught that everyone is free to get what they want, they just have to have the guts to get it.

Because of social clases, i have come over the social barrier, and my childhood turned my conservative (my dad ran off to mexico when i was 3 , just to add to the list of posters here who had crap dads , i have a step dad now)

im now 18, and ii have started my own company a year ago, i didnt go to college, i found it to easy, and in the last 10 months, ive earned £16,000 , not bad for an 18 year old,, and im about to hire a workforce!!!!

I dont like capatalism,, what it does to the planet but, its not gonna change for a while, i might as well become a bourgeosie whilst i still have the freedom to do so.

Sod everyone else, noone helped me when i was younger, y should i help anyone else exept me and my family? flawed logic yes, but, ah well.

While I don't know why I am of the particular political label that I am, I do know why I shifted to the socially-liberal sector.

It was a reaction to my previous position. I used to be rather authoritarian, when I was first getting in to politics. Then when I actually learned about Nazi Germany, learned about the fascist countries, and learned about the authoritarian attempts at communism, I started to think differently, and realize that the authoritarianism and the racism and all that didn't seem quite right. I actually met and befriended people who later turned out to be people that I believed deserved death. That made me think about what I believed.
It made me realize that I was supporting the ruthless, cold-blooded slaughter of millions of innocent people for things that were entirely outside their control.

After realizing that, I flipped to being socialy liberal.

I tend towards authoritarianism.
Part of this stems from my dislike of weakness(people are stupid and foolish those attributes make them weak) and I think that the best way to combat societal ills is to institute programs that force people to think in certain ways(not to crush free will but to crush stupidity). When I was in high-school I saw too many friends make bad choices and knew too many dick-heads who thought that sex, drugs and penis size were the highest virtues in life. These people do not think of the future and their parents in many cases do not or can not do the job that they need to. I believe that societal ills come from weakness and that to combat weakness we need control of the culture.

However, I am drifting more towards conservatism recently due to the fact that I am starting to get more respect for capitalist systems so long as they are properly regulated.

my dad ran off to mexico when i was 3 , just to add to the list of posters here who had crap dads , i have a step dad now

join the club, my dad married another woman when I was 4, i now live with a single parent, the funny side is, he lives in a 2 up 2 down terraced house and i live in a 3 bedroom detached with nearly an acre of land. talk about justice. and my mum still only earns £15k a year. oh and i go to a private school, the best in the area, i get that on a scholarship though. its a very ironic story, that he moved away to live with some woman and have 2 kids in a terraced house, and i live in a life of luxury compared to him. talk about a bad choice.

1: Your parents had a lot of money, yet he made you pay rent.

2: He forced you to pay for college yourself, or find an alternative.

I'm not saying he's bad, but from what I gather, he wasn't that great, either.


You didn't read my post. He never made any of us pay rent while we were still in High School. Only after graduation did he require it. I think that is rather generous, where could you rent an apartment in 1972 for $10 a month with board, laundry included? They had money because he worked in a truly brutal job for 35 years 5 days a week, 12 hours a day (5am-5pm), and saved where he could. He was generous as hell to his grandkids after he retired.

He was the first generation of Americans born to immigrants (one of 11 kids). They were living in Hell's Kitchen in utter poverty. His parents wanted their kids to do better, and they did, through hard work. My dad served in the island campaigns of WWII and that helped shape his world view. He taught us the value of hard work and setting goals for ourselves. Mom and Dad were married at 18 before he got sent off to fight after bootcamp, and they were married for 45 years until he died. He was a good, god-fearing man. He showed his six sons love (hugs, supporting us when we needed it, and occasional smacks to the butt when we really screwed up), sure he went to the bar after work for a beer or two with the boys from work, but he ALWAYS came home at six, he wasn't afraid to show his love for mom in front of us either (I remember them slow dancing to Frank in the parlor after supper on Sundays). That man busted his ass, and he didn't want his boys to go through life thinking that the world owed them a damn thing.

Why would we kids just get a free ride through life? If he would have paid our way through college, would we really have appreciated our gift? I didn't have to pay for my schooling as Uncle Sam took care of that later. I can say my Dad was a GREAT man from when my first son was born. To see my Dad hold my boy, and have a tear in his eye (which was the only time I ever saw him cry), I could tell he was was finally satisfied with his life. That he was free to be the grandpa now, which he did well. After he passed in 87, his estate was settled and it turned out he bought all of his grandkids Savings Bonds (enough to get them through college). I was truly blessed to have him in my life.

Crap, now I'm getting teary eyed like a lib! :(

I was raised a Christian, and gave my life to Christ when I was 7.

In our house, we were taught that every person should be responsible for his own actions and that everyone should earn his own way in life.

Jesus taught forgiveness, kindness, taught us to give to him who has not. So I give to people... but I don't think it's government's place to do the giving for us... Jesus taught INDIVIDUALS to give, not governments... so to me, the whole "Jesus as socialist" thing is BS. We should be able to choose whom we give our money to as opposed to being stolen from by our government and watching them waste it or give it away arbitrarily to people we don't know.

I too am an idealist, sort of, and here are mine:

a)The best economies are those based on the principles of free enterprise, where entrepreneurialism is rewarded. When entrepreneurs prosper, business booms, and that means jobs for Average Joe, better products for consumers, and investment opportunities for those who want to make their dollar go further. Abe was right: you cannot help the poor by bringing down the rich, because the money of the rich allows the poor to have jobs. Also, if you hurt business, you hurt jobs and thus, the hard workers. So while we can't let the Enrons of the world hold sway, I think it's important to do everything possible to allow business to prosper. And the biggest way to do that is to keep taxes low.

b)We shouldn't say we're champions for freedom and then thumb our noses at our armed forces when they're in a country trying to free oppressed people... if we really value freedom, we should help others attain it.

c)The government needs money to run, so some taxes are necessary, but money should be appropriated only for what is necessary.... because every tax dollar taken out of our paychecks is one less dollar we earn that we get to spend on ourselves. Every dollar taken brings financial freedom down a notch. Pork should be trimmed in a big way. If you want $2 million for lights on your state's (Virginia, for instance) trails, should someone in Nevada have to cough up dough to help pay for it? No. So take the issue to your state, so your state can pay for it.

d)People at local/county/state levels of government are generally best at determining the needs/requirements of their constituents... not the federal government.

e)Communism/socialism are a blight on the world, rewarding sloth and punishing success... they force economic equality at the expense of economic freedom -- one comes at the expense of the other, since people are not equally adept at making money -- which I wholly disagree with. The government should support those who can't support themselves.... and maybe a month or two for those recently losing their jobs. We need to curb the welfare state, and to do that we need to kick the people off who enjoy watching TV while the rest of us slave away 40 hours per week to pay for their food.

f)Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

Life - The US government has an obligation to keep me safe. If I am dead, I cannot enjoy the following two things.

Liberty - The US government has an obligation to respect my proprietary rights, financial freedom, ability to move, ability to vote, etc.

Pursuit of happiness - The US government has an obligation to respect my right to buy what I wish, work where I wish, start a business if I want to, sleep under the stars if I feel like it (so long as it's not on private property -- hehe), eat frozen pizza every day, etc.

So long as I do not break laws or otherwise harm others, my actions should be protected by the guarantees of liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

g)Abortion is wrong, except maybe in the case of rape/incest or the mother's life being endangered by delivery, but women have the right to choose what to do with their bodies. Killing abortion doctors is at least equally wrong as killing an innocent fetus, and is despicable. "Oh, here, I hate the fact that you don't respect the life of your fetus... learn from my example as I blow up this abortion clinic..."

h)The owner of a business should be able to do with his investment what he pleases, within reason:
If he employs people, he should pay and treat them fairly. I hate unions, but I know that they were needed 75 years ago because owners treated their workers like crap. That can't happen anymore. That said, the owner should be able to run his business without a union trying to tell him how to do it.

blarg

This is all assuming I actually do think. HA!

Nah ... I dunno ... never thought about it. Dad was a Nixon Republican, died when I was 16. Mom is a liberal, but doesn't vote and we never really talk politics.

I'm a socialist libertarian (you figure that one out) who leans so far left I'm practially bent. I like to call it "common sense". Although I do get a real laugh out of people who actually believe they can change someone just by legislating it ... you know ... like all those Republicans who want to just wish gay away.

At heart I'm a revolutionary, but I just don't have the resources. If I ever win the lotto, though ... watch out!

if we really value freedom, we should help others attain it.


Even if they didn't ask for it? That's just nuts. :p

Nice one Frang, you sound well grounded.

I'm a Libertarian for a number of reasons (capital "L" because I'm a member of the national party, not because I'm an extremist).

As a teen, I was very, very liberal. Since I was raised in an uberconservative household, there was bound to be a rebellious backlash. I had a strong dislike for institutions, authority and religion. I wasn't into politics enough to have any real understanding of where I really stood. Either way, I dropped out of high school at 16, got my GED over the summer and enrolled in college while my friends were still attaining their HSD's. I was in a hurry to do something else (anything else, really) other than participate daily in a mind-numbing public high school where the curriculum was well below my level. I had switched schools where previously I was earning college credit via AP classes, and my new school didn't even have honors courses. :rolleyes: )

While I was attending college, I lived with my ex-fiance in the Tampa gehtto.
Life was very rough for us, to say the least. For several years we had direct experience living at the "bottom" of the American barrel. I saw what welfare provided most families with-- Top of the line groceries, ghetto kids dressed in amazingly expensive clothing and footwear, nice cars and stereos but shitty houses. Clearly, while we suffered with eating beans and rice for the week and sweating rent (while attending college to better our lives and others), there was a segment of the population abusing the good will of taxpayers.

I've been busted for a pot roach in my lifetime, so I found out firsthand how rediculous the insane "war" on drugs is. You can legally get wasted on booze, but a little pot that's never killed anyone in history resulted in 6 months probation, drug tests and group therapy? :rolleyes:

I started a business years ago and found out firsthand that I was truly on my own as a self-employed individual. I get taxed to the max, but if the world should come crashing down on me, the government wouldn't be willing to help me out, despite the fact that I've paid plenty into the system. I'm not greedy at all because I'm not rich by any means. To ask me for anything but to be a good citizen is rediculous.

I'll stop here, because I could go on all day about the reasons why I think the way I do.

You can legally get wasted on booze, but a little pot that's never killed anyone in history resulted in 6 months probation, drug tests and group therapy? :rolleyes:


Ugh ... no kiddin'. Obnoxious, ain't it? Friend of mine got busted with 1/2 a joint .... a misdemeanor in Texas. He got probation and a fine and now he can't teach anywhere in Texas because of the drug conviction.

Stupid stupid stupid.

Either way, I dropped out of high school at 16, got my GED over the summer and enrolled in college while my friends were still attaining their HSD's.

You can legally get wasted on booze, but a little pot that's never killed anyone in history resulted in 6 months probation, drug tests and group therapy?

I thought if you dropped out of school at 16 you couldn't get your GED until after you were scheduled to complete HS? What would be the point of sticking around 2 more years when you could just quit, then pick up your GED over the summer? Maybe Florida is just that screwed up?

You can legally get wasted on booze, but just not in public, it's called Public Intoxication, and they will arrest you if they get complaints.

I think of myself now as left of center.

My father was from the upper class and was a generally right wing conservative, and my mother had a lower class background and was more left wing and labour supporting. However they both had a moderating effect on each other. My mother moved more to the right, but was still left wing and would vote for labour. My father moved more to the left, but was still mainly right wing, though he would vote for the liberal democrats more.

In early life I was very much conservative, but then when I got into my early teens I became interested in communism, and became a strong supporter of the ideology. I was very much an idealist then, drawn by the dream of a world where people where equal, where no one suffered. My mother, who had even been a member of the communist party when she was at university in France, did not strongly oppose my new beliefs, though she did often try and tell me the flaws that she had seen in the communist ideal, and in its practise, in the time she had been a believer in communism. However between the ages of about 12-16 I was still a strong supporter of communism. But, around the age of 16 I started to see the flaws in Communism, in some of the theory, and in some of the awful atrocities that have occurred in practise when Communism has been attempted by nations. So I eventually let go of my support of Communism, and I see now the help I got from my mother to see the flaws there are in Communism.

Now , with my communist days long gone, I am as I said left of center I would say. I still support some left wing economic policies, like the welfare state, but I would say that I overall support a capitalist system, as long as there are good workers rights. In social policy I consider myself to be moderate, neither liberal nor authoritarian, as in some areas like free speech I am very liberal, but in other areas I am more authoritarian, such as with laws for strong drugs like crack.

I have found the different backgrounds of my parents to be very useful and illuminating in life, and thus I have a lot of respect for both the lower and the upper class. My family are not rich, (even if my extended family are), in fact we are quite poor really. The death of my father when I was 11, as well as the death of many member of my extended family and friends around the same time showed me that people can fall on hard times not just because they are "lazy", but for many other reasons as well, and thus I believe that the idea that all people that are poor deserve to be poor is deeply flawed. My mother has been very hard working, and put a lot of time and effort into her work, something which I respect her for.

In the last year I have also gained new respect for Tony Blair, and I do believe that overall he has been a good prime minister. I opposed the Iraq war from the early days, though now I do not think the troops should leave until Iraq is stable, and has a reasonable police and military that can manage. I am not as opposed to "New" Labour as I used to be.

In religious terms I am still very much a doubter, and could probably be best classified as agnostic. However I am have a lot of respect for religions, and I believe them to be generally a force for good. I have an interest in many, from the Catholicism of my parents, to the ideas of Taoism that are behind the martial art of Hsing I Chuan that I practise. I have recently enjoyed reading books my both the late Pope John Paul 2nd, and the Dalai Lama.

I also got from my parents a love of learning, and particularly from my father a deep interest in History. My interest in history also leads to my belief that people should spend more time looking back at history, to help inform the present, and see where humans have made progress, and where they have made mistakes, and thus help guide us in future decisions.

I also believes very strongly that the environment you live in, and the situation and events that occur in your life, have a very large influence or your ideas and beliefs.

My parents were loaded, but the only things given to me were my basic needs (clothing, food, etc), sure I got toys as a kid but that's it.

When I was old enough I had to work hard to earn an allowance of $2 a week from my folks. When I was 14 I had to find a job in the summer on dads orders.

*snip*
Guys, do you think that the typical conservative glorification of discomfort and pain, is the product of repressed sadomasochism? ;)

You can legally get wasted on booze, but just not in public, it's called Public Intoxication, and they will arrest you if they get complaints.

Aye ... but you can't legally have even a small amount of personal use marijuana in your home, but you can have a gallon of bourbon and some assault rifles.

Now that makes perfect sense.

Ugh ... no kiddin'. Obnoxious, ain't it? Friend of mine got busted with 1/2 a joint .... a misdemeanor in Texas. He got probation and a fine and now he can't teach anywhere in Texas because of the drug conviction.

Stupid stupid stupid.

The secret is DON'T BRING YOUR POT OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. Seriously, what is so hard about doing your thing at home? If I were a cop and pulled some guy over and saw a half burned marihuana cigarette, I'd throw the book at them, just like I would for booze or whatever drug they had. The car is a dangerous thing, the last thing we need on the road is another dangerous driver. Now if your friend was just walking down the street, that is a different story, the cop should just give you a $50 fine, stomp on the roach, and your on your way.

I understand people do what they want to, and I have no problem there, just when it could possibly kill me or someone else on the road, that's where I get tough.

The secret is DON'T BRING YOUR POT OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. Seriously, what is so hard about doing your thing at home? If I were a cop and pulled some guy over and saw a half burned marihuana cigarette, I'd throw the book at them, just like I would for booze or whatever drug they had. The car is a dangerous thing, the last thing we need on the road is another dangerous driver. Now if your friend was just walking down the street, that is a different story, the cop should just give you a $50 fine, stomp on the roach, and your on your way.

Agreed, pot should be as legal as alcohol. People drive bad enough without chemical influence.

My friend was busted in his home. He wasn't out anywhere. A neighbor saw him light up a joint from across the street and called a cop.

Personally, I think the neighbor should be publicly hanged. That kind of gestapo shit is just plain wrong. It has no place in a free society.

Ugh ... no kiddin'. Obnoxious, ain't it? Friend of mine got busted with 1/2 a joint .... a misdemeanor in Texas. He got probation and a fine and now he can't teach anywhere in Texas because of the drug conviction.

Stupid stupid stupid.
He can't teach now because he got busted with a tiny bit of pot?
Oh yeah, that's stupid alright.

I thought if you dropped out of school at 16 you couldn't get your GED until after you were scheduled to complete HS? What would be the point of sticking around 2 more years when you could just quit, then pick up your GED over the summer? Maybe Florida is just that screwed up?
I'm 28, so it's been a very long time (maybe the laws have changed).
I had no problem attaining my GED at all. I think the state considered this a great way to save a lot of money on dropouts. :D

With the "No Child Left Behind" standard though, I'm sure changed the rules a bit since then.

Anyone know the rhyme wich begins "Here's Maggie Thatcher" with the palm presented and a stick woman drawn on?
ooh, no. do tell!


OK, bear with me, the rhyme also requires gestures (and drawings :eek: )so is a lot easier to show then tell.

First draw something like this (http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2913/maggie4dg.jpg) (Maggie Thatcher) on one hand and this (http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/8968/maggie28tr.jpg) on the other.

Now hold out the with Maggie on and say

Here's Maggie Thatcher, (then move your hand up quickly, as if throwing a ball in the air)
Throw her up then catch her (err, pretend to cath her, then rub your hand together)
Squish, squash, squish, squash(open and present your hand with the squiggle on)
Here's Maggie Thatcher

:D

(Well it was funnier when I was about 7.)

Aye ... but you can't legally have even a small amount of personal use marijuana in your home, but you can have a gallon of bourbon and some assault rifles.

Now that makes perfect sense.

Who is going to know that you have that grass if you don't advertise it? Assault rifles? Well, if they are illegal, expect the ATF at your door.

Agreed, pot should be as legal as alcohol. People drive bad enough without chemical influence.

My friend was busted in his home. He wasn't out anywhere. A neighbor saw him light up a joint from across the street and called a cop.

Personally, I think the neighbor should be publicly hanged. That kind of gestapo shit is just plain wrong. It has no place in a free society.

Texas is screwed up then. The cop was allowed into the house just for that? Wow. I can't believe they could do that from just a nosey neighbor. Too bad he wasn't able to just hide it when they showed up.

Yeah the neighbor should be in trouble if they made other claims then just the pot to get the cops into that house.

Agreed, pot should be as legal as alcohol. People drive bad enough without chemical influence.



Yes it should be absolutely legal, with the same restrictions as booze. The government would make a killing (like they do already from liquor and cigs taxes). I know they made it illegal way back when for rascist reason at best, it's time to wake up. Seniors have enough trouble paying for pain meds and such, for $10 they could have an appetite, help sleeping, and less pain.

I'm as straight as Hank Hill nowadays, but in my youth I had tried the marihuana, and never did fall into that "refer madness" trap.

b)We shouldn't say we're champions for freedom and then thumb our noses at our armed forces when they're in a country trying to free oppressed people... if we really value freedom, we should help others attain it.
I agree with this, but I'm sorry to inform you that you're a hypocrite. Why not apply this noble principle to domestic affairs. If we really value prosperity and quality of life, we should help others attain it.

frangland, i agree 100% with you

Guys, do you think that the typical conservative glorification of discomfort and pain, is the product of repressed sadomasochism? ;)


How in anyway is that discomfort or pain. At 14 I was working 5 hours a day, building my muscles (which I later found out helps in the chick department ;) ), getting paid .50 cents an hour which was alot for a kid back then. He didn't want us just loafing around all summer. But guess what? When I turned 16 and got my license, I had enough saved up for a used sports car. I was 16 and driving a 1963 Stingray coupe (yeah the one with the split window and FI). Which I still have in storage.

I was able to have an awesome teenage experience. I had good times after I got done by noon. I could actually afford dates and gas. No S&M there. I'm sure if you actually had to do some real work in your life, you'd see things in a similar way.

I'm Green because I believe in the socialist ideals of equality and fairness as well as in a healthy environment. The reason for this is that my parents brought me up in an environment in which I learned to ignore ethnic characteristics to judge people and concern myself with the person's character. I also went to a very international school, grew up speaking two languages fluently, in a classroom in which I had equal amounts of German and English speaking students.
My dad was pretty much my moral role model, teaching me to respect others. I had several different religious classes, protestant, catholic, and jewish, since my parents wanted to broaden my view (my German mom was orthodox athiest and my American dad was protestant).
Scouting pretty much influenced my respect for the environment. I enjoyed the out of doors and I want to keep them preserved for future generations. I also find irresponsible and unsustainable exploitation of natural resources as "unfair" and "unjust".

How in anyway is that discomfort or pain. At 14 I was working 5 hours a day, building my muscles (which I later found out helps in the chick department ;) ), getting paid .50 cents an hour which was alot for a kid back then. He didn't want us just loafing around all summer. But guess what? When I turned 16 and got my license, I had enough saved up for a used sports car. I was 16 and driving a 1963 Stingray coupe (yeah the one with the split window and FI). Which I still have in storage.

I was able to have an awesome teenage experience. I had good times after I got done by noon. I could actually afford dates and gas. No S&M there. I'm sure if you actually had to do some real work in your life, you'd see things in a similar way.
Couldn't agree more with you. If I had children, they'd be brought up much like yourself.
There's a huge difference between having a safetynet and using it.

That said, I'm probably something as absurd as a semi conservative anarchist. I have no tolerance for people who doesn't try to carry their own weight.
I have many years of experience with poverty and social outcasts, and I pretty much think our societies are failures in this respect.
I don't see how capitalism can possibly work for people in general.
I haven't seen democracy working for people in general.

So really, I'm all for participatory economy. It's the only thing I know of that could concievably work for the general population, and that's pretty much what makes me an anarchist. Not that I consider myself one, but I don't mind the label either.

Oddly, I don't seem to get along with most of the anarchist kids at all :p

I'm Aspergers, which no doubt colours a lot of my opinions. After spending years being treated as somehow flawed and inferior by schools, parents and other kids I found that the only way to get rid of all the self-hatred and negative self-esteem was to turn it outwards. Now I know that I am Human Mark X and you are all Mark IVs! HA!

That little piece of Nietzchean insanity aside, I still don't really fall into any easily defined pockets. This is probably because I haven't read enough books on philosophy, so I can't make easy references. But based on what little I have read and supported by info from my hardcore philosophy degree friends, I'm basically a Platonic monarchist.

If you've ever read Aldous Huxley's books Island and Brave New World you'll have seen his ideas of, in that order, Utopia and Dystopia. I, however, believe that Aldous Huxley was a dick.

I regard the former work as the most hateful hell mankind could possibly devise, awash with sappy eyed, luddite anti-humanism, while the latter paints a world were human Being is freed from the dreadful purposelessness, loneliness and prejudice of the modern world.

Indeed, the perfection of the Brave New society can best be demonstrated in it's acceptance of the deviance of the protagonist and the recognition that such deviance could one day be the key to overcoming problems the society would otherwise be unequipped to deal with. This results in his placement in an environment with other such free thinkers, where their ideas can be shared and expanded upon. In the Island any deviance from the accepted norm is treated simply as a disease and the 'sufferer' ostracised or reprogrammed.

I'm sure you can put together the links between paragraph one and two yourselves.

Couldn't agree more with you. If I had children, they'd be brought up much like yourself.
There's a huge difference between having a safetynet and using it.



Yup, I just had a bit of an issue with a certain poster here who thought my father wasn't a good man. It was people like him who built this nation into the great nation it is today. At the age of 10 he dropped out of school to work as a butchers assistant in Hell's Kitchen NY to help out the family. He lived with his mom and dad and 10 siblings in a two bedroom apartment in a slumlords building. At 12 he got a job as a runner for a construction company, he worked construction till Pearl Harbor when he was 18 married my mom, he quit and enlisted into the Marines with his one older brother.

5 others joined the Navy (like the Sullivans). Before he left for the Pacific in 43 he left my mom at home with a baby on the way. He served in 4 different island campaigns including Iwo, as a rifleman and had been a flamethrower in Saipan. He was critically injured on the 20th day on Iwo (sucking chest injury), spent the remainder of the war in Hospital.

He came home to an almost 2 year old boy, and a loving wife. The old neighborhood wasn't for him anymore, so he packed up his little family and moved to Allentown, PA to work in the steel industry (Bethleham Steel). He got a job in the blast furnace area, after a year of hard work and his war record he was made day foreman of the department. He spent his whole adult life working for them until he retired. He taught us a penny saved is a penny earned.

Too many people today don't plan ahead. It's sad.

I just don't think authority is justified and I don't see why we need government or capitalism. To me, anarchism just makes more sense then other political theories.

I just don't think authority is justified and I don't see why we need government or capitalism. To me, anarchism just makes more sense then other political theories.


Should people be able to run around and just commit random murders?

I just don't think authority is justified and I don't see why we need government or capitalism. To me, anarchism just makes more sense then other political theories.

We need government to protect people from themselves, and we don't need capitalism, but it's the only system that works. Plus, I like earning more for the more effort I put in.

straight-up and to the point, i see, DHomme :p :D

I could elaborate for you if you like....

Should people be able to run around and just commit random murders?

Or we could contruct a strawman and dance around it.

why do you think the way you do?
Because I'm fuckin' Metal :cool:

Yup, I just had a bit of an issue with a certain poster here who thought my father wasn't a good man.
<Snip>
Too many people today don't plan ahead. It's sad.
I know. That's partly why I felt I had to say something. And honestly, your father sounds like a man after my own head. I was a working class kid as well, and I still am really.
Unlike your father I have only myself to support, but like him, I spend my money with care.

I much prefer to live on the cheap, travel a lot and not work more than I think I have to. I save up for my own future, because I have no faith that my country will be able to provide for me. Equally, I don't really see why it should. In the world we live in, I feel no need to get ahead. I'd rather have freedom. My personal pension plan is to buy an island with some mates. Regardless of whether I'll be able to or not, I will have the money :)

I can't stress how satisfying it is to be able to rely on oneself. Doubly so when you're a teenager. You might have to work, but you'll gain more than just money. You'll get self respect. You'll know that all the shit your friends have, they wouldn't have if it wasn't for mommy and daddy. And you'll likely have more money than your friends.
Sure it's shit when your friends get mad on your behalf, because you have to pay rent. But you'll also be damn proud you're capable of doing it.
Incidentially, it usually keeps you out of trouble (though it didn't help me that way... But I was a moron and a hothead). I bet all the students having trouble managing their time, would be a lot better off if they'd had any experience doing it, before they're suddenly forced to.

Because I'm fuckin' Metal :cool:

Berzerker?

*snip



I have to agree with ya, when you can live a satisfying life, and you have a security blanket, life just feels so much better.

You have a good head on your shoulders, keep it up. ;)

Or we could contruct a strawman and dance around it.


Or we could pelt the local butcher shop with skunk parts. Your point?

simple question: what is the reason behind your political or philisophical standpoint?
tell as much or little as you like...


so what about you?

I'm what i am because of my childhood, education and life experience
. I think that is with everybody.

I was brought up by liberal, former-hippies in a middle class town in North Yorkshire. I owe a lot of my values and ideals to them although they never directly implanted any religious or political views in me. They encouraged me to think about things for myself, they answered me when I asked them outright what they thought, but always emphasised that they were only opinions and I should figure my own opinions out for myself.

So I turned out politically left of centre, spiritually unorthodox and philosophically liberal.

I'm also a very sensitive person and embrace that fact. Every society needs both fighters and carers, otherwise it crumbles. I scoff at suggestions that everyone should strive to be stronger (i.e. emoptionally detatched). I have the ability to empathise with others, so I'm a very compassionate person and have a strong sense of idealism coupled with practicality. I see what's wrong with the world, acknowledge it and want to change it by working from what we've got.

I know I got all of this from my parents, teachers and peers, and totally love and respect them for letting me develop into the person I am without forcing me into a pre-defined copy of one person's ideal!

My friend was busted in his home. He wasn't out anywhere. A neighbor saw him light up a joint from across the street and called a cop.

Personally, I think the neighbor should be publicly hanged. That kind of gestapo shit is just plain wrong. It has no place in a free society.
wtf!? what an asshole! mind his own fucking business i say :mad:
jesus tittyfucking christ :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



Here's Maggie Thatcher, (then move your hand up quickly, as if throwing a ball in the air)
Throw her up then catch her (err, pretend to cath her, then rub your hand together)
Squish, squash, squish, squash(open and present your hand with the squiggle on)
Here's Maggie Thatcher

:D

(Well it was funnier when I was about 7.)
lol well.... kinda glad i never heard that one :p ;)





its interesting reading the stories and thinking behind some of the more right-wing posters here (i'm looking at you two, The Similized world and Cheese Burrito). i'd like to go off on a tangent and discuss the evident fundamental differences in right- and left-wing thinking (from what i can see from these posts)... but i'm too tired right now. maybe tomorrow

I was brought up by liberal, former-hippies in a middle class town in North Yorkshire. I owe a lot of my values and ideals to them although they never directly implanted any religious or political views in me. They encouraged me to think about things for myself, they answered me when I asked them outright what they thought, but always emphasised that they were only opinions and I should figure my own opinions out for myself.

So I turned out politically left of centre, spiritually unorthodox and philosophically liberal.

I'm also a very sensitive person and embrace that fact. Every society needs both fighters and carers, otherwise it crumbles. I scoff at suggestions that everyone should strive to be stronger (i.e. emoptionally detatched). I have the ability to empathise with others, so I'm a very compassionate person and have a strong sense of idealism coupled with practicality. I see what's wrong with the world, acknowledge it and want to change it by working from what we've got.

I know I got all of this from my parents and totally love and respect them for letting me develope into the person I am without forcing me into a mould!
wow - you and me both buddy... one and the same... and i mean exactly the same :)

thats the thing i've always liked best (for want of a different word) about my parents - they have always respected both my individuality and my opinions. like you, they have never forced an opinion down my throat or forced me to do certain things, like go to church. however they always said if i chose to start going to church they would respect that decision and help me out in any way they could (ie drive me there as a kid ;))
i've always been an equal to them - never "just a kid" or whatever, and that has fostered a mutual respect between us that lasts to this day, thankfully; and not to mention a deep love and admiration on my part.

its interesting reading the stories and thinking behind some of the more right-wing posters here (i'm looking at you two, The Similized world and Cheese Burrito). i'd like to go off on a tangent and discuss the evident fundamental differences in right- and left-wing thinking (from what i can see from these posts)... but i'm too tired right now. maybe tomorrow
Hah! I feel so misunderstood... As usual :p
I'm both extremely right & left wing. I completely agree that chaos and anarchy has nothing to do with eachother. There's no more corelation than there is between (mis)representative democracy and chaos. Quite possibly less in my opinion.

The anarchy=chaos dribble is either just flaimbait or mis/un-informed. Quite on par with most of the annoying hippie I-don't-wanna-pay-my-own-way self proclaimed anarchist teenage wankers.

Anyway, I'd love to have a debate about it. If you promise not to bait, I'll promise not to breath flames :p

simple question: what is the reason behind your political or philisophical standpoint?
tell as much or little as you like...



me, i'm communist. the reason is i'm an idealist - always have been, its in my nature. i always think of should or could be, not what is.
i got set on the path of left-wing-ism by my parents, being ardent Labour supporters and ex-hippies - my dad was a big part of the anti-Vietnam student demonstrations in london in the late 60's :D
i lived as a spoilt rich kid as the parents' company did well until the Tory engineered recession of '92 (and hence harbour projected resentment against the tories for this). after that point we've lived the other side of the tracks, and thats helped me appreciate money isn't everything, and the pursuit and love of money, and especially power, is rotten.
i'm also a relatively emotional person... i feel strong compassion and empathy for others in a worse situation than myself - i've never really had a problem 'putting myself in the other person's shoes', unlike many people i know...
so couple all that with fantastical idealism and some hippie-esque philisophical thinking, and you end up with... me :) :)


so what about you?

I used to be a Leftist, but then, I grew up. Seriously. bitter experience and seeing how Government really functions, and how mass-'solutions' work when they're applied (and the tendency for Law to be made based on freak incidents rather than reason or logic) pretty much terminated my belief that power should be more centralized, while seeing how people behave when they don't think they're being watched pretty much soured my belief that the angelic natures necessary for Communism were present in sufficient quantity to allow it to function with human beings. What put the final nails in the coffin for me, was being sent to a War-zone by a War Protestor under an International banner and a Blue Helmet, then being forbidden to shoot back when engaged by the local thugs. You haven't lived until you've worked crowd control on a violent mob with only three bullets, hoping the M-16 looks intimidating enough to keep the crowd from rushing you, or when you're under sniper-attack in a UN compound and the shooters are the same fuckers who you're there to 'protect'.

There is also the small flaw of "Once you've made everyone equal, how do you keep them that way?" which leads into the whole Animal Farm scenario-those who keep everyone else 'equal' are, by definition, more 'equal' than everyone else. Power does corrupt. it also attracts those that are easily corrupted. like flies to shit, or rotting corpses.

At the old age of 32, I have come to the conclusion that Government is not a panacea, it's a necessary evil, impossible to be rid of, but needing the sharpest restraints one can devise, because like a vicious animal, it might be useful for protecting from other animals, but it will bite you and maul you the first opportunity it can-and not because it is malicious, but because, like so many things, it is only as intelligent as its stupidest member, only as honourable as the 'average'. government always sinks to the lowest level it can in order to find the 'average'.

The most dangerous thing you can have, even more dangerous than a crooked official, is an Idealist in charge, one with a 'vision' for everyone else.
Naturally, Idealists and Crooks are the major components of Government. keeping them at one another's throats is key to letting us peasants get on with our lives-as long as the two don't unite in any meaningful way, the rest of us are safe from them.

I think this way because I am a twisted, sick bastard.

I don't even know...

Well I was always on the left. I was a communist in my early teens, but when I started studying Economics I moved away from that to a more Social Democratic Point, although various Green Parties are also very good.
Probably because an actual Communist state is just not feasible.

I've also been kind of sceptical of the Americans for as long as I can remember. Maybe it was when I learned that Germany had been at war with them once...who knows?
September 11 and Bush's "with us or against us" speech did it though.

I don't even know...

Well I was always on the left. I was a communist in my early teens, but when I started studying Economics I moved away from that to a more Social Democratic Point, although various Green Parties are also very good.
Probably because an actual Communist state is just not feasible.

Yeah, humans are too selfish on mass and politicains too corrupt to make communism a viable option.

Here in Britain we have a reasonable choice of parties to vote for, although the main two are almost identical and both slightly right of centre. But there are the Liberal Democrats and Green Party who sit on the left, without being even close to communist. People are starting to realise that the Lib Dems are becomming a party worth voting for, for a long time they were seen as a wasted vote. I'm involved in campaigning for a change in the system so that a party actually gets a number of MPs proportionate to the number of votes they recieved, not regional seat won. It's complicated, but basically Labour won the election with only 36% of the votes, but have over half the seats in parliment, many people here see that as unfair.

The system doesn't represent the votes basically, but at least we have more choice than Americans.

I've also been kind of sceptical of the Americans for as long as I can remember. Maybe it was when I learned that Germany had been at war with them once...who knows?
September 11 and Bush's "with us or against us" speech did it though.

Yeah, me too. When I was about 14 I realised how US politicians are all businessmen first and foremost, caring more about the power and profit for their corporations than doing the right thing for the people they lead. Once I found out just how incestuous it is my mind was made up about it. You have companies funding politicians who sit on the board of directors and those at the top choose their administration based on who runs which company and which company gave most money during the election. I see it as a dangerous thing to have people running the show who are endebted to corporations, especially those that are responsible for the destruction of the environment and those who don't know the meaning of corporate social responsibility.

Capitalism may have its place in our society, but that level of interconnectedness clearly isn't a good thing for the majority of people. Not when you look at how factually undemocratic the most capitalist country in the world is!

I am economically Right Wing and Socially Left Wing. Why?

Well, I am economically right wing because a free market based economy is the most efficient. A more efficient economy means less money is wasted and therefore the people as a whole are richer. Generally when business is taken over by the state, there is no longer much incentive to make money or make difficult decisions, because the government knows it would be either politically unviable to let the organisation go out of business (ie. coal, steel etc) because of lost jobs or morally unviable (ie. healthcare etc.). I accept that without proper regulation a free market will eventually develop monopolies and tacit ogligarchies, but with adequate regulation this will not happen.

Socially left wing. Well, I strongly believe in the rule of law, and also of the right of the citizens of a nation to do whatever they want so long as doing so doesnt cause harm to other citizens. I think that the recent stance that my (British) government has taken on the war on terror has been sensationalist and spurred on largely by panic and the need to be seen to be doing something. I dont see terrorism as a major threat to society (no more than murderers, rapists etc) and I also dont believe that introducing ID Cards and GPS boxes in cars will actually prevent terrorism or anything much.

I'm also quite staunchly patriotic, and pro-science. Again, science has suffered a lot from sensationalist headlines and policies from parties like the Greens, who seem to base their hatred of anything technological on nothing much really. I believe in balancing the benefits of wealth with the benefits of clean air and the environment, and I dont think that they are mutually exclusive. I like to think of myself as a pragmatist rather than a dreamer or a utopian. Of course, I want to work towards a better world - but a better world that we can actually see, not a better world in my head.

Yeah, humans are too selfish on mass and politicains too corrupt to make communism a viable option.

in the now, yes. but in the future could this not change and communism be a viable option? human nature is malleable and all that...
(but once again, this is a matter for another thread)