NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just thinking about the whole situation with terrorism today when i realised, the terrorism today isn't the same as it was 10 years ago. When groups like ETA, IRA, PLO etc. were in full effect they had objectives, to free thier countries through any means possible.

But what is the Al-Qeada's odjectives?? I don't know any of them, can some one shed some light on my query please. Are they just trying to kill the west because we are the west?? it can't be in the name of Allah as the majority of muslims seriously condem these attacks. So if anyone has any answers please let me know. thank you

I think their objective is too free the world from the *evil western civilisation*

1) to get the US and its "lapdogs (read current govts) out of their holy land (read the middle east)

2) Destroy israel and give them control of the land.

3) Get the people in their holy lands to only follow their holy book, and adhere to it.

4) Convert the rest of the world to their belief structure.

(i think)


(here: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terror-qaeda.html)
The principal stated aims of al-Qaeda are to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Bin Laden has also said that he wishes to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs.

Al Quaeda's objectives:

1) Isolate muslim nations from foreign aid.
2) Encourage islamist revolutions in muslim countries to overthrow the governments.
3) Unify the new islamist regimes under a caliph, perhaps Osama himself.
4) Use oil wealth and military force to expand territory controlled by new muslim caliphate.
5) Eventually spread muslim control to every nation and every continent.
6) Bring about the last day when Allah judges all men.

The problem is Al Qeada isn't really an organization like the IRA. Its more of an idea than any existing structure with a set hierarchy. Any group that proscribes to its ideals gets labelled as an extension of Al Qeada when it isn't really.

That's why you're not going to find anything like a goal that is expected of an organization. More likely a myriad different goals that could possibly conflict with one another.

So if anyone has any answers please let me know.either call 1-800-WHY-OSAMA...

or read his Video transcripts...

dont use the Medias middle-men (avoid distortions)...go to the source...go to The Man himself...

1) to get the US and its "lapdogs (read current govts) out of their holy land (read the middle east)

2) Destroy israel and give them control of the land.

3) Get the people in their holy lands to only follow their holy book, and adhere to it.

4) Convert the rest of the world to their belief structure.

(i think)


(here: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terror-qaeda.html)
Thanx, i knew 1 and 2, and to be honest id like to see the Palestinians in control of Isreal, destroying it is going a bit to far. Thanks for that though. Convert the rest of the world??? sounds a bit retarded, they must be taking a leaf out of Bush's book, lol.

Well you are right the very nature of terrorism has changed dramatically since 9/11, possible before then. Since the 1990's it was bound to happen. I am sure if you asked each and every terrorist their reasons they would all be different. Propaganda is a huge weapon for both sides.

The attitude in which the 'West' views the 'East' and vise versa must be changed, this isn't easy as in some cases it is centuries old. There is still an mist of the Muslim versus Christian. Its wrong. I wish it could be changed. Look at Northern Ireland. Fighting for more than 500 years (I'm including all of Ireland in that) and its only now the IRA have potentially agreed to lay down arms. Just the IRA mind, not all the splinter groups. Yes this can be viewed as historic, and it is but words and actions are two very different things. My point, which has been slightly side tracked is that to stop all this violence both sides need to want to come to the table and talk it thro. Can you see this happening in the near future?

If you're thinking about the possibility of negotiating with them then I don't think it could happen, they hate democracy and western civilisation.

1) to get the US and its "lapdogs (read current govts) out of their holy land (read the middle east)

2) Destroy israel and give them control of the land.

3) Get the people in their holy lands to only follow their holy book, and adhere to it.

4) Convert the rest of the world to their belief structure.

(i think)


(here: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/terror-qaeda.html)#1 is stated on the OBL video-Tapes
#2 Israel is clearly mentioned too.

#3 and #4 are Bushite propaganda.

I think their objective is too free the world from the *evil western civilisation*
Ah we are pritty evil though, i know i am.

My point, which has been slightly side tracked is that to stop all this violence both sides need to want to come to the table and talk it thro. Can you see this happening in the near future?
No, and thats a shame because that is what needs to be done. See what happend when satans daughter, aka Maggie Thatcher, took up th "we will not negotiate with terrorists" stance with the IRA, they only stepped up thier bombing campaign in England, and tried to blow her up in Brighton, obviously this stance does not work.

#1 is stated on the OBL video-Tapes
#2 Israel is clearly mentioned too.

#3 and #4 are Bushite propaganda.


errr... well i thought they opposed the other sects (for want of a better word) in the muslim faith... and they definantly oppose non muslims being in the holy land, so i read that as they want to get everyone there to follow their belief structure - and expand it to the rest of the world eventually...

But what is the Al-Qeada's odjectives?? I don't know any of them, can some one shed some light on my query please. Are they just trying to kill the west because we are the west?? it can't be in the name of Allah as the majority of muslims seriously condem these attacks. So if anyone has any answers please let me know. thank you

The objectives of the radical Muslims are as follows:
1. Get all westerners and non-Muslims out of all Muslim lands.
2. The total destruction of Israel.
3. World domination by Muslims.

Fortunately, not all Muslims agree with these objectives.

errr... well i thought they opposed the other sects (for want of a better word) in the muslim faith... and they definantly oppose non muslims being in the holy land, so i read that as they want to get everyone there to follow their belief structure - and expand it to the rest of the world eventually...
every religion thing they are the true faith...and most religions want to "convert" every single soul the their religion...

But religions do not go to war with you to "convert" you...

You cannot convert a marine after you shot him in the Face.

AQ struggle is to get out the occupying armies(and Puppet Govs)...not to "convert" the Armies.

GO! AL QUAEDA GO!---sponsored by u.s.a. [money], and c.i.a. [training]....

every religion thing they are the true faith...and most religions want to "convert" every single soul the their religion...

But religions do not go to war with you to "convert" you...

You cannot convert a marine after you shot him in the Face.

AQ struggle is to get out the occupying armies(and Puppet Govs)...not to "convert" the Armies.
They don't aim to convert the armies right away. They know this is impossible. Their plan is to convert everyone slowly by gaining control over Muslim nations and then gradually annexing more territory until they control the whole world.

GO! AL QUAEDA GO!---sponsored by u.s.a. [money], and c.i.a. [training]....
What the hell is the matter with you? Nato, including the USA helped bomb your enemies, and now you're rabidly anti-American to the point that you make yourself look like a fool by rooting for a criminal organization that gives Islam a bad name.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Their plan is to convert everyone slowly by gaining control over Muslim nations .gain control over Muslim nations?...How ????

gain control over Muslim nations?...How ????
By removing military and other assistance they get from western nations like the USA, then using Al Quaeda sympathizers to start popular uprisings to remove the current regimes and replace them with Islamist regimes loyal to Al Quaeda. Kind of like what the Mullahs did in Iran, only on a much wider scale.

Im convinsed that the terrorist arnt even Religous and just use it as a way to get new recruits that actually believe that if they kill themselves they will go to paradise. The terrorist just want to cause chaos in the world, no nation is truly safe they will find anything you do wrong and attack. They attacked the US just because American troops stood "holy soil". :sniper: = terrorist worst enemy.

Kind of like what the Mullahs did in Iran.most the Arab Dictators are US "friends"...

the People of Iran overthrew that Sadistic Dictator (shah) and the murder+torture CIA/mossad trained Police (SAVAK)...and installed the most democratic system in the ME (Israel is less of a Democracy..cos it uses apharteid-like techniques to disallow the full weight of Muslim vote)

Iran was already a great Democracy before we installed the murderous Shah.

But what is the Al-Qeada's odjectives?? I don't know any of them, can some one shed some light on my query please. Are they just trying to kill the west because we are the west?? it can't be in the name of Allah as the majority of muslims seriously condem these attacks. So if anyone has any answers please let me know. thank youWell, Osama bin Laden turned anti-American during the Gulf War when the "infidels" set foot in Saudi Arabia. What Al Qaeda wants is to rid the Middle East of Western influence, politically, economically, and culturally.
The goal after that is to spread Islam across the world as the only religion.

most the Arab Dictators are US "friends"...

the People of Iran overthrew that Sadistic Dictator (shah) and the murder+torture CIA/mossad trained Police (SAVAK)...and installed the most democratic system in the ME (Israel is less of a Democracy..cos it uses apharteid-like techniques to disallow the full weight of Muslim vote)

Iran was already a great Democracy before we installed the murderous Shah.
I'm not arguing whether the current or past regimes in the muslim world are legitimate or not. I'm talking about Al Quaeda's strategy.

Look at Saudi Arabia. Al Quaeda doesn't like the Saud family, but can't act against them since they have US made weapons and had US troops available to protect them. Al Quaeda forces a weakening of the ties between US and Saud. Then Saud is weakened because of this lack of US support. Next Al Quaeda operatives begin conducting terrorism in the kingdom. This drives more westerners out and inspires some latent radicals to start working towards a revolution against the now weakened Saudi government.

What makes you think they'll stop with Saudi Arabia?

Well, Osama bin Laden turned anti-American during the Gulf War when the "infidels" set foot in Saudi Arabia. What Al Qaeda wants is to rid the Middle East of Western influence, politically, economically, and culturally.
The goal after that is to spread Islam across the world as the only religion.the Goal of Islam is to spread as in any other religion...

But AQ is not there for that...AQ are not Preachers they are warriors...

AQ and Islam are not the same thing...

probably most AQ are Muslim...but not all muslims are AQ.

most the Arab Dictators are US "friends"...

the People of Iran overthrew that Sadistic Dictator (shah) and the murder+torture CIA/mossad trained Police (SAVAK)...and installed the most democratic system in the ME (Israel is less of a Democracy..cos it uses apharteid-like techniques to disallow the full weight of Muslim vote)

Iran was already a great Democracy before we installed the murderous Shah.Iran is less of a democracy than Israel. You can't vote for whom you'd like in Iran, because the council decides who gets to run for office.

the Goal of Islam is to spread as in any other religion...

But AQ is not there for that...AQ are not Preachers they are warriors...
Can religion not be spread by the sword? If Al Quaeda takes over a nation that contains Muslims and other religions it will impose a strict and repressive form of Sharia. Non-muslims will face severe discrimination and lack of security. Keeping your family from becomming dirt poor, keeping your sons from being beaten in the streets, and keeping your daughters from being married off against their will is a pretty strong set of motivating factors for converting.

Look at Saudi Arabia. Al Quaeda doesn't like the Saud family,AQ does not like most Arab Dictators including Saud's and Saddam.

If AQ got their hands on them...they would set a quik military-style court and execute them.

the Goal of Islam is to spread as in any other religion...

But AQ is not there for that...AQ are not Preachers they are warriors...

AQ and Islam are not the same thing...

probably most AQ are Muslim...but not all muslims are AQ.Ah, yes, but AQ wants to spread Islam by force. Trust me, if you listen to the militant preachers in the streets, they'll tell you that that's exactly what they have planned. This variant includes the eradication of all other religions. The "Caliph of Cologne" that got extradited to Turkey for treason preached turning Germany into a Caliphate when he was here.

Can religion not be spread by the sword? Of course...

killing people is not a good way to convert them.

Ah, yes, but AQ wants to spread Islam by force. Trust me.I'm trying

AQ does not like most Arab Dictators including Saud's and Saddam.

If AQ got their hands on them...they would set a quik military-style court and execute them.
And replace them with an Islamist government that holds the same social and religious views as Osama Bin Laden.

Of course...

killing people is not a good way to convert them.
Forcing them to live as third-class citizens because of their religion is.

Ah, yes, but AQ wants to spread Islam by force. Trust me, if you listen to the militant preachers in the streets, they'll tell you that that's exactly what they have planned. This variant includes the eradication of all other religions. The "Caliph of Cologne" that got extradited to Turkey for treason preached turning Germany into a Caliphate when he was here.AQ and those Preachers are 2 different things.

they are both Muslims...but they are not the same.

Let me give you a direct example...Me and Bush..we both Christian...

But I would be very offended if you try to associate me to that Chimp.

Well, Osama bin Laden turned anti-American during the Gulf War when the "infidels" set foot in Saudi Arabia.
And it really wasn't too much just as they got there, because he understood that they had to free Kuwait from Saddam. It was after they had accomplished that and they decided to stay in bases in Arabia that Osama declared his war against the US.

I'm tryingTry harder :D
Anyway, I'm not saying Al Qaeda is representative for Islam, but it is representative for the militant elements that want to cover the world in Islam. The first goals right now though are kicking the Westerners out of the holy land. The "zionists" are targets too, should they succeed, Israel is next. I've talked to an Israeli friend of mine on this and he knows Arab terrorism a bit better. They don't plan on winning this war in their life time. They plan on wearing us down. Generations of relentless terrorism is not something I look forward to, and that's what they're playing at. As crass as this may sound, that's exactly what they're after.

Of course...

killing people is not a good way to convert them.
Tell that to the Conquistadores!

Generations of relentless terrorism is not something I look forward to.Im not looking forward to that...Im going to be on neutral land...

Not in Israel, Not in the USA.

AQ and those Preachers are 2 different things.

they are both Muslims...but they are not the same.

Let me give you a direct example...Me and Bush..we both Christian...

But I would be very offended if you try to associate me to that Chimp.
Those hate preachers are to Al Qaeda as Ann Coulter would be to a slightly more rabid Christian George Bush. I'm talking about the preachers that condone what AQ is doing. And there's a couple of those in Britain, Germany, France and probably even in Mosques in the US. And they're all over the place in islamic countries. These are the theologists of Al Qaeda and are the ones that either directly or indirectly prepare youths for AQ's jihad. Not all of them are directly associated with Al Qaeda, but some are, especially the ones that run Quran Schools with the purpose of breeding the next generation of Mujahedeen.

Im not looking forward to that...Im going to be on neutral land...

Not in Israel, Not in the USA.Eventually, the war will spread everywhere. Extremism is one of the biggest threats to world peace in the future, especially with the population boom in islamic countries. We need to do something about it besides bombing dictators that "wanted to kill our daddies".

Tell that to the Conquistadores!
South America is 80% Catholic...
South America is 80% European.

Europe did not convert the native Americans...they "replaced" them (extermination)

South America is 80% Catholic...
South America is 80% European.

Europe did not convert the native Americans...they "replaced" them (extermination)Unlike the English settlers, the Spaniards actually intermarried a lot with the indigenous tribes. Argentina is considered pretty much the only country there that's "white"...

Im not looking forward to that...Im going to be on neutral land...

Not in Israel, Not in the USA.
According to the view of Islam embraced by Al Quaeda there is no neutral ground. Currently there is only Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb. Al Quaeda wants the whole world to be Dar al Islam.

South America is 80% Catholic...
South America is 80% European.

Europe did not convert the native Americans...they "replaced" them (extermination)
There are still remaining pockets of Natives in Central America. Even they have incorporated Catholicism into their beleifs because to reject Catholicism was to be killed. They converted at the point of a sword.

South America is 80% Catholic...
South America is 80% European.

Europe did not convert the native Americans...they "replaced" them (extermination)
They forced converted them when they took control of a region. Extermination came later, as natives were victims of disease, overwork, or just plain murder. At least they went to heaven, eh?

Each country is quite diverse. Most people in Chile and Argentina are of direct European descent, but most people in Bolivia are natives. In Central America, Mexico and northern South America most people have mixed blood, and in some regions there a lot of people of African descent.

Curiously, Catholicism is still most prevalent through the native population, but Protestantism has been making some inroads.

GO! AL QUAEDA GO!---sponsored by u.s.a. [money], and c.i.a. [training]....
well u have got the taste of your own medicine and IT HURTS!!!! suffice to say serbia was bombed by u.s.a. in 99.and never by a muslim country .and i was in that war and know you war-crimes that have gone completely unpunished!,maybe some of those soldiers are in iraq now who knows?!... if i had to choose between u.s.a. and osama bin laden i would take my chances with osama as with him i at least know where i stand...but the with american double-standards policy u never know wtf the devil is up to and i fought albanian terrorists trained by c.i.a. too, but that didnt help them ............. :sniper: lol......

gain control over Muslim nations?...How ????

They want their "brand" of Islam in all Muslim nations and all Muslim nations under Sharia Law. They intend to do this by first getting all the non-Muslims out and converting the people left in those countries to their brand of Islam by any means possible.

According to the view of Islam embraced by Al Quaeda there is no neutral ground.the only sides that do not accept the concept of Neutrality are the Sith and the Bushites.

Of course...

killing people is not a good way to convert them.

Convert or die is a pretty good motivator for people to convert. Those that don't convert are eliminated and that has a tendency to reduce the opposition.

There are still remaining pockets of Natives in Central America. Even they have incorporated Catholicism into their beleifs because to reject Catholicism was to be killed. They converted at the point of a sword.They have not truly converted...their souls have not converted...

I went to Titicaca Lake....and personally saw the "catholic" celebrations...they were only Catholic in disguise...in reality they were Natives celebrating their "Pachamama" God. (which i don't mind)

Its like when Kurd villegers used to have a Picture of Saddam in their Family room...It does not mean their hearts love Saddam.

Im not looking forward to that...Im going to be on neutral land...

Not in Israel, Not in the USA.

There will be no "neutral land."

There will be no "neutral land."If you believe either the Bush or the Sith...there is no possible neutrality...

But the Sith are fiction...and Bush is a Chimp.

Convert or die is a pretty good motivator for people to convert. Those that don't convert are eliminated and that has a tendency to reduce the opposition.Like I said you can always fake conversion and Practice you chosen religion...Until an opportunity for REVOLUTION comes...and it will come.

Do not give away your weapons...No matter what peace they promise you...If they are planning to keep their promises..you will never need to use them.

I wish all weapons would vanish...but I know the reality of human nature...so I am not going to hold my breath for that one.

To be honest, I think you might as well ask what John Wayne Gacy's motives were. I know that their justifications involve installing an Islamic government with Sharia law and all that business, but to the extent that any of them have any critical faculties I don't see how they think they can do that.

I think the upshot is this: bin Laden and other guys like him made a living and got to kill some people for Allah during the war in Afghanistan. When the war was over they had nothing to do. A lot of them had been doing what they were doing since they were kids and didn't know anything else. others, like bin Laden, could probably have gone home and lived in luxury but after a decade of fighting for truth justice and the Islamic way I would guess that sounded pretty boring. So they found new ways to come up with cash and new people to kill. If they stopped killing people and blowing things up, the money stopped flowing. Along the way they managed to pick up impressionable youth who, for various reasons, saw an opportunity. The chance to belong to a group, be powerful and feared, and live a life of adventure and danger is attractive to a lot of young men. It's the same impulse that drives american kids into gangs and the army.

So basically, their genuine goal is to keep doing what they're doing for as long as they can.

I think their objective is too free the world from the *evil western civilisation*


Thats crap, they want the US out of the middle east, Osama bin Laden has himself said "if it is western freedom and democracy we hate then why do we not attack sweeden"

No, they have very specific goals, they use Islam as a weapon that turns normal people into fanatics, bin Laden himself isnt all that a devout muslim (he was born into a fuck off rich Saudi family and educated partially in the west) he just makes out like he is to recruit more pawns.

AlQuaeda plan is to convert everyone slowly by gaining control over Muslim nations .gain control over Muslim nations?...How ????
They want their "brand" of Islam in all Muslim nations and all Muslim nations under Sharia Law. They intend to do this by first getting all the non-Muslims out and converting the people left in those countries to their brand of Islam by any means possible.AlQuaeda has their own Brand of Islam now?

Interesting...

and its Osama who told you that?....because he sure did not say he was creating a different brand of Islam...unless you mean its some secret conspiracy.

and its Osama who told you that?....because he sure did not say he was creating a different brand of Islam...unless you mean its some secret conspiracy.
There are dozens of brands of Islam. That of bin Laden, the Taliban (and, interestingly, the official one of Saudi Arabia) is Wahabbism, a "fundamentalist" sect with focuses on the very legalistic aspects of the religion.

the only sides that do not accept the concept of Neutrality are the Sith and the Bushites.
Closed mind much?

To be honest, I think you might as well ask what John Wayne Gacy's motives were. I know that their justifications involve installing an Islamic government with Sharia law and all that business, but to the extent that any of them have any critical faculties I don't see how they think they can do that.

I think the upshot is this: bin Laden and other guys like him made a living and got to kill some people for Allah during the war in Afghanistan. When the war was over they had nothing to do. A lot of them had been doing what they were doing since they were kids and didn't know anything else. others, like bin Laden, could probably have gone home and lived in luxury but after a decade of fighting for truth justice and the Islamic way I would guess that sounded pretty boring. So they found new ways to come up with cash and new people to kill. If they stopped killing people and blowing things up, the money stopped flowing. Along the way they managed to pick up impressionable youth who, for various reasons, saw an opportunity. The chance to belong to a group, be powerful and feared, and live a life of adventure and danger is attractive to a lot of young men. It's the same impulse that drives american kids into gangs and the army.

So basically, their genuine goal is to keep doing what they're doing for as long as they can.
Every veteran foot soldier I ve ever met...and I have met a lot!!
They all want the war to end and go home.

By veteran I mean who have killed in war and seen blood of either side.

and I invite Eutrusca to add a comment about that.

There are dozens of brands of Islam. That of bin Laden, the Taliban (and, interestingly, the official one of Saudi Arabia) is Wahabbism, a "fundamentalist" sect with focuses on the very legalistic aspects of the religion.I can tell rite away that you dont know much about Islam.

even if do know little myself.

Every veteran foot soldier I ve ever met...and I have met a lot!!
They all want the war to end and go home.

By veteran I mean who have killed in war and seen blood of either side.

and I invite Eutrusca to add a comment about that.
Well, be that as it may, I didn't really intend to say that Al-Qaeda was like the army. But I have known a lot of young men going into the military who couldn't wait to get into combat, or at least get to be across the world carrying a gun.


EDIT: as for bin Laden and the Muhjadeein (sp?), I'm sure there were soldiers fighting in that war who were ready to go home. But there are always a few hardcore who go back for second tours or eventually end up fighting as mercenaries in some troubled part of the world.

I was just thinking about the whole situation with terrorism today when i realised, the terrorism today isn't the same as it was 10 years ago. When groups like ETA, IRA, PLO etc. were in full effect they had objectives, to free thier countries through any means possible.

But what is the Al-Qeada's odjectives?? I don't know any of them, can some one shed some light on my query please. Are they just trying to kill the west because we are the west?? it can't be in the name of Allah as the majority of muslims seriously condem these attacks. So if anyone has any answers please let me know. thank you
All the Islamist terrorists have the same objective they've always had: kill the infidel until we get out of the way of the New Caliphate.

Every veteran foot soldier I ve ever met...and I have met a lot!!
They all want the war to end and go home.

By veteran I mean who have killed in war and seen blood of either side.

and I invite Eutrusca to add a comment about that.
Every soldier or veteran I have ever met, and I think that probably includes just a few more than you have, always wants any war to end, especially after they've had a taste of "real" combat. Almost all soldiers in a democracy would prefer to deter war by their readiness, and end any combat as soon as is humanly possible. After all, they have the most to lose if it continues.

All the Islamist terrorists have the same objective they've always had: kill the infidel until we get out of the way of the New Caliphate.
Wow, with such insights into the motivations of 'all the Islamist terrorists', why aren't you on the payroll of the CIA? :rolleyes:

Every veteran foot soldier I ve ever met...and I have met a lot!!
They all want the war to end and go home.

By veteran I mean who have killed in war and seen blood of either side.

and I invite Eutrusca to add a comment about that.

Every veteran of every war wants the war to end so they can go home. Most also want to win the war. So, there is nothing new about your statement.

Wow, with such insights into the motivations of 'all the Islamist terrorists', why aren't you on the payroll of the CIA? :rolleyes:

Are you trying to be a troll or are you just trying to be annoying?

Every soldier or veteran I have ever met, and I think that probably includes just a few more than you have, always wants any war to end, especially after they've had a taste of "real" combat. Almost all soldiers in a democracy would prefer to deter war by their readiness, and end any combat as soon as is humanly possible. After all, they have the most to lose if it continues.thanks for answering the call.

and I think that probably includes just a few more than you have.true true :D

thats why I asked your first hand knowledge.

every religion thing they are the true faith...and most religions want to "convert" every single soul the their religion...

But religions do not go to war with you to "convert" you...

You cannot convert a marine after you shot him in the Face.

AQ struggle is to get out the occupying armies(and Puppet Govs)...not to "convert" the Armies.

Conversion by the Sword. You need to read up on your islamic history and philosophy. In Jihad (and we've known this since the 1100's) if the holy warrior kills you, you get the short-ticket to heaven. He's doing you a favour.
This is part of the disconnect between western-oriented thinking and Radical Islam-"Convert or Die" isn't it- you convert just as easily dead, as alive under the doctrines of Jihad. Surviving is possibly worse-Dhimmitude is akin to Apartheid without the "Separate but equal" clause.

This is also what makes it permissible to bomb a schoolbus, or a shopping mall, as long as you have a Fatwa of Jihad against the people there, and since the Holy Warrior is also going to go to heaven for fighting and dying for the cause, (a better neighbourhood, but still heaven) suicide bombing is an acceptable technique even when better methods are available.

Well, be that as it may, I didn't really intend to say that Al-Qaeda was like the army. But I have known a lot of young men going into the military who couldn't wait to get into combat, or at least get to be across the world carrying a gun.


EDIT: as for bin Laden and the Muhjadeein (sp?), I'm sure there were soldiers fighting in that war who were ready to go home. But there are always a few hardcore who go back for second tours or eventually end up fighting as mercenaries in some troubled part of the world.

It's a truism that Mercs who only fight for money are pretty shoddy soldiers-the industry (hollywood movies aside) doesn't pay that much more than construction, and definitely doesn't pay what your average freelance trooper is worth given the risks he's taking (Exempt from Geneva protections, distant land, hated and despised, and no diplomatic cover.)

Mercs that are good at it, generally are fighting for more than money, but may be impatient with the Political or diplomatic process, or are actually 'regulars' conducting missions on behalf of a government that can't afford (diplomatic reasons) to be openly involved...
(American Volunteers in Rhodesia, CIA sponsored mercs in Angola and Uganda, Cuban mercs in the same places... the "Flying Tigers" American Volunteer Group in China circa 1939/41...)

In the case of the Afghan Muj in the '80s it was a combination of religious fervor, and a (to them) real understanding of what would happen to the Islamic World if the Soviets became more than a regional annoyance. Mecca under a Red Star would become secularized, and the Soviet record in the Stans wasn't viewed positively by most of the muslim community in neighbouring countries.

Conversion by the Sword. You need to read up on your islamic history and philosophy. In Jihad (and we've known this since the 1100's) if the holy warrior kills you, you get the short-ticket to heaven. He's doing you a favour.#1 This has been denied a number of times by our resident Muslims like Keruvalia...This is part of the disconnect between western-oriented thinking and Radical Islam-#2 Our Western Warriors have never worried for religious consideration when it was time to kill the enemies...and killed we have...millions... again and again...sometime we used Religion pretexts...sometime territorial pretexts...sometimes we didn't even bother to spell a pretexts.

This is also what makes... suicide bombing an acceptable technique even when better methods are available.#3 AQ did not invent suicide or Kamikaze techniques...

no murder technique should be acceptable...but War is about developing new and better ways to murder the "enemy".

It's a truism that Mercs who only fight for money are pretty shoddy soldiers-the industry (hollywood movies aside) doesn't pay that much more than construction, and definitely doesn't pay what your average freelance trooper is worth given the risks he's taking (Exempt from Geneva protections, distant land, hated and despised, and no diplomatic cover.)

Mercs that are good at it, generally are fighting for more than money, but may be impatient with the Political or diplomatic process, or are actually 'regulars' conducting missions on behalf of a government that can't afford (diplomatic reasons) to be openly involved...
(American Volunteers in Rhodesia, CIA sponsored mercs in Angola and Uganda, Cuban mercs in the same places... the "Flying Tigers" American Volunteer Group in China circa 1939/41...)

In the case of the Afghan Muj in the '80s it was a combination of religious fervor, and a (to them) real understanding of what would happen to the Islamic World if the Soviets became more than a regional annoyance. Mecca under a Red Star would become secularized, and the Soviet record in the Stans wasn't viewed positively by most of the muslim community in neighbouring countries.

I guess what I'm saying is, after the Soviets left Afghanistan all that religious fervor and righteous anger had to go somewhere. After you've saved the world, it's not exactly easy to go back to tending your farm or whatever it is you did back home. So you find a way to remain a superhero. Hence al-Qaeda.

Al-Qeada's public goal is not chaos, domination, or even conversion. They're doing the same thing they were when they were the US's dogs against the USSR. They're resisting visibly. The whole point is to bring the suffering of war and conquest into view of the masses. Democratic governments care about public approval, so public outrage towards rising death tolls can change foreign policy.

As much as I hate George Bush and think something has to be done to stop the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), I certainly cannot condone any tactic that involves of increasing the suffering of innocents. Bin Laden and Bush are both extremists who don't care who they hurt.

I said this was Al-Qeada's public objective. Bin Laden may be an extremist murderer, but he's not stupid. He has to see that his tactics are backfiring and his actions are rallying more support to Bush's cause. I'm not going to claim that I know about some conspiracy to manufacture public support for war, but I wonder if Bin Laden isn't still on the CIA payroll. Not a claim; just a theory.

This has been denied a number of times by our resident Muslims like Kar...(sp?) our Western Warriors have never worried for religious consideration when it was time to kill the enemies...and killed we have...millions... again and again...sometime we used Religion pretexts...sometime territorial pretexts...sometimes we didn't even bother to spell a pretexts.
they did not invend suicide or Kamikaze techniques...

no murder technique should be acceptable...but War is about developing new and better ways to murder the "enemy".

No, War is the final extension of badly done diplomacy, it's politics. From the point of view of a Warrior, it's screaming and bleeding and dying, mostly. As for worrying about religious considerations-I've never met a Vet who didn't believe in Some kind of god. I've met Athiests in uniform-but they're usually REMFs, and almost universally inexperienced. That buzzing goes past your ear, you start praying, and when you're tring to hold your buddy's guts in, you get LOTS closer to god-first name basis, you might say.
As for Jihadi history and Philosophy-remember that you're about as likely to run into a Radical Muslim Extremist here, as you are to meet a high ranking black man at a KKK rally, or an American Nazi at a meeting of the NAACP-serving as a delegate. The guys blowing up themselves and their neighbours in the Middle East are adherents to a particular Heresy of Islam. Asking Katganistan or one of the Muslims here about that Heresy is like asking a Catholic about LDS doctrines.

I think their objective is too free the world from the *evil western civilisation*
Damn im 5 hours too late.>.<
To free the World from the Evil Western Idiologies

But what is the Al-Qeada's odjectives??
Turn Saudi Arabia into a Theocracy.
Expel the US from the Middle East.
Create some more theocracies.
Preferrably get rid of Israel (although I've never heard a statement from them about this)
Finish by creating a few more theocracies.