NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think the Ira will stick to its statement and disarm?
Disscuss this in the forums!

'Skeptical, but would like to see it work'

Eh, I'm American, uninformed about the IRA, and in any case I wouldn't know which way to think anyway. So I abstain.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0728/northpolitics2.html

Go here for news on the statement!

Oh how I hope so.

Whats the score on the IRA saying they want to be peaceful and then going back on their statement. Must be 4 or 5 times now

ish.

I think it was 3 times they ordered a cease fire and broke it!

How do people feel about the dismantling of fortifications and watch towers? Does anyone think it is too soon to be acting on the IRA statement?

Ya! When I heard that I was shocked!! Why do that? Waite for them to show some disarming! The brits will disarm and then the IRA would have a clear route to victory! I do hope the brits leave the island. But just not so soon!!

How do people feel about the dismantling of fortifications and watch towers? Does anyone think it is too soon to be acting on the IRA statement?
Probably, but if it encourages them to get on with it then it's ok i suppose.

I have absolutely no idea as to their sincerity, but a question keeps nagging me concerning their efforts--

Why was America "right" for fighting for their sovereignty, but the IRA are simply "terrorists"? Granted, we didn't go to England and blow up civilians, but ideologically, is there a difference? (Hoping to get some Euro opinions on this, as well as American).

" Brits" By Brits I mean the British

I have absolutely no idea as to their sincerity, but a question keeps nagging me concerning their efforts--

Why was America "right" for fighting for their sovereignty, but the IRA are simply "terrorists"? Granted, we didn't go to England and blow up civilians, but ideologically, is there a difference? (Hoping to get some Euro opinions on this, as well as American).

Thats is right! George Washington in america and Emon Devalera in ireland were considerd terrorists just like the Ira!!

I have absolutely no idea as to their sincerity, but a question keeps nagging me concerning their efforts--

Why was America "right" for fighting for their sovereignty, but the IRA are simply "terrorists"? Granted, we didn't go to England and blow up civilians, but ideologically, is there a difference? (Hoping to get some Euro opinions on this, as well as American).

The majority of northern ireland would rather have things remain the way they are so I suppose that would be one main difference

I have absolutely no idea as to their sincerity, but a question keeps nagging me concerning their efforts--

Why was America "right" for fighting for their sovereignty, but the IRA are simply "terrorists"? Granted, we didn't go to England and blow up civilians, but ideologically, is there a difference? (Hoping to get some Euro opinions on this, as well as American).
....because the IRA fought for their sovereignty and won...and then fought to have control over a group of people where the majority wanted to remain in the UK.

And they attacked civilians, weren't organised into a regular arm with uniform etc, and used car bombs etc.

Simple, really.

The majority of northern ireland would rather have things remain the way they are so I suppose that would be one main difference
Actually, I didn't know that, and it does make a difference. Though, are you sure about that? If it's true, then I'd consider them "terrorists" as well.
I'm not exactly on the up-n'-up on the issue, so I don't want to assume something I have no business judging.

I say, being a revolutionary American, that Britain should give Northern Ireland back to Ireland.

However, having not lived there, I cannot make a 'good' argument for either side, other than that I think that Ireland should have a right to their own island.

As far as them keeping their word of disarming: they've been bombing the British for, what, hundreds of years? So, I doubt they'll give up until they get what they want.

But, what do I know?

Actually, I didn't know that, and it does make a difference. Though, are you sure about that? If it's true, then I'd consider them "terrorists" as well.
I'm not exactly on the up-n'-up on the issue, so I don't want to assume something I have no business judging.

Last figures I saw showed 59% were in favour of the union

I say, being a revolutionary American, that Britain should give Northern Ireland back to Ireland.

However, having not lived there, I cannot make a 'good' argument for either side, other than that I think that Ireland should have a right to their own island.

As far as them keeping their word of disarming: they've been bombing the British for, what, hundreds of years? So, I doubt they'll give up until they get what they want.

But, what do I know?

Then by that logic give america back to the indians

If you support the union is that england or Ireland?


What I was thinking is they should have a election to decide! If a county got more than like 55 or 60% then it could join ireland!

Well, im from N ireland, and i perosnlly want to remain part of britian, i dont want the euro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the IRA? ill belive it when i see it, untill then i dont beleive it.

Well, for America's revolution, we were revolting against a monarchy, and were being taxed unfairly (no taxation without representation.) I don't know much about the Ireland issue though, so I don't have much more to say.

Then by that logic give america back to the indians
:D :D :D :D

If you support the union is that england or Ireland?


What I was thinking is they should have a election to decide! If a county got more than like 55 or 60% then it could join ireland!

59% of the people of northern ireland would rather things stayed as they are. If you tried to force a change so big as uniting Ireland you would just end up with decades more violence

I say, being a revolutionary American, that Britain should give Northern Ireland back to Ireland.

And the Americas back to the natives....and, in fact, every area of land that was ever conquered back to who owned it properly.

Oh, and it wouldn't be 'giving it back', as it never took it from a united Irish state. No sovereign Irish state existed until 1921, and it never included the north.

And thats before you start looking into the fact that the UK is a democracy, and majority rules....the majority of people in NI want to remain in the UK.

Not to sound confrontational...just to help inform.


As an aside, its interesting to note the proportion of Catholics that support the union with GB, and the proportion of Protestants that support a united Ireland....just goes to show it isn't a Catholic vs. Protestant issue.

True!! Thank you for clearing that for me!

59% of the people of northern ireland would rather things stayed as they are. If you tried to force a change so big as uniting Ireland you would just end up with decades more violence
Yup, if you did it now, you would be throwing away the chance of a workable solution, and plunging the whole of Ireland into alot of violence.

And the Americas back to the natives....and, in fact, every area of land that was ever conquered back to who owned it properly.

Oh, and it wouldn't be 'giving it back', as it never took it from a united Irish state. No sovereign Irish state existed until 1921, and it never included the north.

And thats before you start looking into the fact that the UK is a democracy, and majority rules....the majority of people in NI want to remain in the UK.

Not to sound confrontational...just to help inform.


As an aside, its interesting to note the proportion of Catholics that support the union with GB, and the proportion of Protestants that support a united Ireland....just goes to show it isn't a Catholic vs. Protestant issue.

Sorry to crash your party but Ireland was around in the roman days! It may have been cavemen! (lol) But It was a 1 ireland! England should also give scotland and wales away!! (before you proclame something read an irish history book! thanks)

Sorry to crash your party but Ireland was around in the roman days! It may have been cavemen! (lol) But It was a 1 ireland! England should also give scotland and wales away!! (before you proclame something read an irish history book! thanks)

Nope until the 15th century Ireland was made up of many different kingdoms competing with eachother and over kingdoms

Sorry to crash your party but Ireland was around in the roman days! It may have been cavemen! (lol) But It was a 1 ireland! England should also give scotland and wales away!! (before you proclame something read an irish history book! thanks)


That will achieve what? england dosnt own these countrys, wales has the welsh assembly, scotland has its own parliament. England DOSNT have its own parliament, westminster is the BRITISH parliament, and might i ask how you justify breaking up the 4th most powerful country? brtain? the economy of an independent wales woudent last 5 years...... scotland could maybe survive, but a much worse standard of living.

I say keep britain.

Nope until the 15th century Ireland was made up of many different kingdoms competing with eachother and over kingdoms

YES!! It is true! Before britan took over after those kingdom their was a free 1 ireland! Im an irish history teacher in a school in cork city! I would know! wouldent i?

Sorry to crash your party but Ireland was around in the roman days! It may have been cavemen! (lol) But It was a 1 ireland! England should also give scotland and wales away!! (before to proclame something read an irish history book! thanks)
I suggest it is you who needs to read a history book.

Back in "Roman days", and right up until the British first established control over all of Ireland, it was divided into many warring clans and small kingdoms. Ireland was only ever united as the Kingdom of Ireland, and even then it was entirely under British control (Poyning's Law etc.) After that it merged with the Kingdom of Great Britain in 1801 to become part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

In 1921 26 of the 32 counties became independent as the Irish Free State, with 6 of them remaining in the UK as Northern Ireland. In 1927 the official name of the UK became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and in 1949 the IFS became the Republic of Ireland, removing the British Monarch as head of state.

I study Modern History at Queens University Belfast, I don't need to be told to go and learn history.

Then by that logic give america back to the indians

Yeah, give it all back to us

-CFH

YES!! It is true! Before britan took over after those kingdom their was a free 1 ireland! Im an irish history teacher in a school in cork city! I would know! wouldent i?
I would also like to think that if you were a History teacher you would know how to spell "Britain".

YES!! It is true! Before britan took over after those kingdom their was a free 1 ireland! Im an irish history teacher in a school in cork city! I would know! wouldent i?

Lies are all to easily exposed you know

Edit: Damm you already beat me to it Nadkor

That will achieve what? england dosnt own these countrys, wales has the welsh assembly, scotland has its own parliament. England DOSNT have its own parliament, westminster is the BRITISH parliament, and might i ask how you justify breaking up the 4th most powerful country? brtain? the economy of an independent wales woudent last 5 years...... scotland could maybe survive, but a much worse standard of living.

I say keep britain.

WOW! ok I was just stateing that!! Wales and scotland are owned by britan! which is based by and in england.

Speaking as 'a British person' I think we'd be perfectly happy letting Northern Ireland go to Ireland, thinking it would stop the fighting, and it would give our nation a shorter name. The problem with that is, people in Northern Ireland would rather be part of the United Kingdom. If so, and they want to be treated as UK citizens, we can't exactly abandon them to the Republic of Ireland. I think there have been polls in the past which show Northern Ireland would prefer staying in the UK.

I know this is off-topic, but there was some talk of giving Gibraltar back to Spain, even though the people in Gibraltar would prefer to remain British. Can't see it happening. Surely in matters like this the opinion of the people who live there is what counts the most.

I would also like to think that if you were a History teacher you would know how to spell "Britain".

Sorry that while typing I MISSED a letter.

i do believe the IRA this time, as the previous ceasefire statements have been issued with conditions. this is an unconditional, frank statement, which basically says enough is enough. its a huge step forward in the history of the british isles. lets hope that sinn fein will crack down on anyone breaking the ceasefire.

Speaking as 'a British person' I think we'd be perfectly happy letting Northern Ireland go to Ireland, thinking it would stop the fighting, and it would give our nation a shorter name. The problem with that is, people in Northern Ireland would rather be part of the United Kingdom. If so, and they want to be treated as UK citizens, we can't exactly abandon them to the Republic of Ireland. I think there have been polls in the past which show Northern Ireland would prefer staying in the UK.

I know this is off-topic, but there was some talk of giving Gibraltar back to Spain, even though the people in Gibraltar would prefer to remain British. Can't see it happening. Surely in matters like this the opinion of the people who live there is what counts the most.

I agree with that , for years spain has whinged at us for gibralter (though they own several small port like this in africa and france, hypocrites) but gibralter has allways wanted to be with us....... and it should be so.

Speaking as 'a British person' I think we'd be perfectly happy letting Northern Ireland go to Ireland, thinking it would stop the fighting,
That's the thing....it would only make the fighting worse.

That's the thing....it would only make the fighting worse.

But it wouldnt affect British people in that situation is the meaning i think

I agree with that , for years spain has whinged at us for gibralter (though they own several small port like this in africa and france, hypocrites) but gibralter has allways wanted to be with us....... and it should be so.

Also argentine with the falklins!!

But it wouldnt affect British people in that situation is the meaning i think
ah...."Paddys on Paddys is alright innit"...seems like a typical British response, no?

Did fuck all when Belfast was getting the fuck bombed out of it, but as soon as it hit London they were all about getting it stopped.

ah...."Paddys on Paddys is alright innit"...seems like a typical British response, no?

Did fuck all when Belfast was getting the fuck bombed out of it, but as soon as it hit London they were all about getting it stopped.

100% true!

I think it was 3 times they ordered a cease fire and broke it!

Nope: they never themselves referred to it as a 'ceasefire' - they term used was 'temporary cessation of miliatary activities'.

ah...."Paddys on Paddys is alright innit"...seems like a typical British response, no?

Did fuck all when Belfast was getting the fuck bombed out of it, but as soon as it hit London they were all about getting it stopped.

Thats how humans work, 25 people were killed by a suicide mober in iraq today, noone will remember , 50 odd british get killed in london, it will be rembered for decades.

9/11 , 3000 americans killed, will allways be remembered, far more civilians have been killed in iraq "collateral damage"

Nope: they never themselves referred to it as a 'ceasefire' - they term used was 'temporary cessation of miliatary activities'.

Just rolls off the tongue doesnt it. Wish they would give a definition along with the phrase

ah...."Paddys on Paddys is alright innit"...seems like a typical British response, no?

Did fuck all when Belfast was getting the fuck bombed out of it, but as soon as it hit London they were all about getting it stopped.

100% true! oh who cared until it hit london!! then the British Gov. bombed a depertment store in dublin because they were geting hit and we irish were not! Our P.M. is investigating now! 20 years after it happened! :mad:

If it happens, I think it will be a big step forward.

I would also like to think that if you were a History teacher you would know how to spell "Britain".

"YES!! It is true! Before britan took over after those kingdom their was a free 1 ireland! Im an irish history teacher in a school in cork city! I would know! wouldent i?"

Nevermind the difference between 'their' and 'there', the correct way to spell 'wouldn't', and how to avoid using constructions which make no sense like 'those kingdom'. If you actually are a history teacher in Cork, then I weep for the state of Eire's education system.

100% true! oh who cared until it hit london!! then the British Gov. bombed a depertment store in dublin because they were geting hit and we irish were not! Our P.M. is investigating now! 20 years after it happened! :mad:
You're referring to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

Thanks for that!! sorry I cant type very good! If you are to keep insulting me please leave!!

Also argentine with the falklins!!

A history teacher that doesn't know how to spell 'Argentinia' or 'the Falklands/La Malvinas'. My credibility is stretched to breaking point here.

You're referring to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?
Yes I am

Thanks for that!! sorry I cant type very good! If you are to keep insulting me please leave!!

Admit it: you aren't actually a history teacher in Cork, are you?

i'm also a bit skeptical about the disarming of the ira but i'm hoping it does happen and lasts. i hope that ALL paramilitary activity stops in northern ireland.

i'm also a bit skeptical about the disarming of the ira but i'm hoping it does happen and last. i hope that ALL paramilitary activity stops in northern ireland.

Yeah but the loyalist paramilitaries are making too much of a profit to even think of stopping.

A history teacher that doesn't know how to spell 'Argentinia' or 'the Falklands/La Malvinas'. My credibility is stretched to breaking point here.

Please STOP!!!!!! Sorry I cant type!! stop insulting me!!

As far as I see it, the ball is in the DUP's court now. We shall see whether they dig their heels in here or not. Even if they do whole-heartedly embrace this new move and don't themselves add their own set of conditions for approving it, we are still likely to experience the ongoing tension between the UVF and the LVF, to say nothing of the splinter groups such as the CIRA and the RIRA.

Yes I am
You will notice that not substantial evidence has ever been found that the British Government was involved in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

Thanks for that!! sorry I cant type very good! If you are to keep insulting me please leave!!

Actually you dont type very well. Damm i'm starting to sound like my mum. Used to get yelled at for saying chocolate with a belfast accent

i'm also a bit skeptical about the disarming of the ira but i'm hoping it does happen and lasts. i hope that ALL paramilitary activity stops in northern ireland.
Out of interest...as someone from 'the South' how would you feel about NI joining the Republic and the pressure on the Irish economy (because NI is shit) and securuty forces (with the inevitable rise in Loyalist violence)?

Please STOP!!!!!! Sorry I cant type!! stop insulting me!!

I can accept that you can't type, and that is no real fault. However, as I say, I have very little credulity when it comes to your claims to being a history teacher.

Said anything with a northern accent back then and u got hit! lol

Actually you dont type very well. Damm i'm starting to sound like my mum. Used to get yelled at for saying chocolate with a belfast accent
Chaclit?

Chaclit?

Got it in one. Its not my fault i live in the Shankhill-By-The-Sea :p

Actually you dont type very well. Damm i'm starting to sound like my mum. Used to get yelled at for saying chocolate with a belfast accent

In these days of widespread promotion of the Scots-Irish tongue is it now actually acceptable to use constructions like 'go you down there' or phrases such as plastic beg'?

Yeah but the loyalist paramilitaries are making too much of a profit to even think of stopping.

then maybe it shouldn't be THEIR decision for them to stop. i don't really like the idea of any paramilitary group

You will notice that not substantial evidence has ever been found that the British Government was involved in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

true! But the P.M. seems to think so as well do I!! they are actually still investigating! it killed a good few people! even if we found out it was britian WHAT COULD WE DO?? send the irish army and we would lose in a few days!

In these days of widespread promotion of the Scots-Irish tongue is it now actually acceptable to use constructions like 'go you down there' or phrases such as [i]plastic beg'?

Yeah but I dont really buy into the whole Ulster-Scots idea. If i can read it perfectly well without training its just not a different language

grampus/nadkor:

just a thought, but this person may be dislexic.

then maybe it shouldn't be THEIR decision for them to stop. i don't really like the idea of any paramilitary group

How do you suggest we stop them?

Got it in one. Its not my fault i live in the Shankhill-By-The-Sea :p
Costa Del Belfast?

Costa Del Belfast?

Bingo

How do you suggest we stop them?

Put them all on an island and let them fight it out amongst themselves.

Put them all on an island and let them fight it out amongst themselves.

We could broadcast it and make millions :eek:

How do you suggest we stop them?

i have no idea

Put them all on an island and let them fight it out amongst themselves.
Is that not what's been happening? :confused:

Bingo
Ach I love it really. It's a nice enough place to live.

We could broadcast it and make millions :eek:

Do you know the answer to the Irish question?

Phone now and win £££'s!

Tel: 02890 16901969

Do you know the answer to the Irish question?

Phone now and win £££'s!

Tel: 02890 16901969

I wonder if Michael Moore would phone in since he seems to think he has it right

Is that not what's been happening? :confused:

Uh-huh. That was my point.

I wonder if Michael Moore would phone in since he seems to think he has it right

What's his take on the whole sordid affair?

What's his take on the whole sordid affair?
He blames America. And guns.

What's his take on the whole sordid affair?

Basically he came to Ireland to get in touch with his Irish heritage and the local Sinn Fein were happy enough to take him out to dinner but when they were driving back to the hotel some Orangemen marched past and he got the Sinn Fein perspective on things and how it intimidated everyone. So to cut a long story short Protestants are the problem in his opinion. Mostly because he never talked to any protestants about the issue

Basically he came to Ireland to get in touch with his Irish heritage and the local Sinn Fein were happy enough to take him out to dinner but when they were driving back to the hotel some Orangemen marched past and he got the Sinn Fein perspective on things and how it intimidated everyone. So to cut a long story short Protestants are the problem in his opinion. Mostly because he never talked to any protestants about the issue

Ah. I am all to sadly familiar with that position adopted by people given guided tours by SF.

EDIT: ...but hey, if it weren't for that we wouldn't have so many Basques working in the Post Office here.

I have one question, why now? Does anybody find the timing of their statement suspicious? Could the recent bombings have anything to do with it? While England is focusing all their attention on the terrorists they pop up with this/ I don't trust them , i think they are up to something, i just don;t know what!

Could the recent bombings have anything to do with it? While England is focusing all their attention on the terrorists they pop up with this/ I don't trust them , i think they are up to something, i just don;t know what!

If anything the announcement has been delayed because of the brouhaha in London. It seems that the IRA were waiting for a slow news day so that their statement could could centre stage in the media.

I have one question, why now? Does anybody find the timing of their statement suspicious?
I find everything the PIRA does suspicious