NationStates Jolt Archive

How come any time anyone starts any sort of thread about any sort of music genre, there are always trollers that show up and feel it necessary to say something to the effect of "Why don't you listen to some good music?"

I kind of get tired of always explaining to them that quality and genre are not related, and that I sample from lots of genres and honestly, probably have a better idea of "good music" than most people here.

But also, there's the idea that "good music" and "appealing music" are related, which is also wrong. In any art form (and music is an art form) there are often times really, really, really good artists who do not make art that appeals to very many (if any) people. Conversely, there are almost always shitty artists who make art that for some reason appeals to a ton of people (eh, Britney Spears is the easiest example).

Now, all of what I said in this thread is up for discussion, but the underlying theme of this thread is that appeal is a personal thing, and quality is not based on appeal, and I'm fucking tired of 12 year old trolls telling me that the good/bad music that appeals to me (for whatever reason) is bad music (just because it doesn't appeal to me). So quit telling people that the music they listen to sucks.

Yeah I understand what you mean, but also people shouldn't judge a song on the artist or band, I may not like most of say Good Charlotte's songs but there are a few that I do like...

Agreed.

Yea.

Here's the funniest thing to me though...

I once mentioned Trent Reznor as a good artist here on these forums (and still stand by that claim) even though some of the whole albums he put out have been pretty bad. Regardless, the 90s and even today, wouldn't be even CLOSE to the same on the music scene if it weren't for Trent Reznor. He fucking produced Marilyn Manson's album, Antichrist Superstar (you can't say the 90s throught today would be the same without Marilyn Manson, and Reznor didn't produce AS, we wouldn't've had Manson), among many other accomplishments.

Hmm, that all we had to say?

Hmm, that all we had to say?

*wonders who this was directed at*

Meh, why don't we open this up to a conversation about good artists (and why they're good).

Honestly, good and musical influence go hand in hand in my opinion. Trent Reznor (is the best modern example I can think of) is pretty much solely responsible for the sound of a lot of the alt-metal-ish music coming from the 90s and beyond.

Meh, why don't we open this up to a conversation about good artists (and why they're good).

Honestly, good and musical influence go hand in hand in my opinion. Trent Reznor (is the best modern example I can think of) is pretty much solely responsible for the sound of a lot of the alt-metal-ish music coming from the 90s and beyond.



Helmet? Faith No More?

Good job with the "and why they're good" part...

As much as I know about music, I don't know every detail about every poster's favorite band.

Well I actaully have never heard of Trent Reznor, but I might like him if i did... Oh wait, you said Marilyn Manson a few posts ago... I'm skeptical, but i'll look him up

Well I actaully have never heard of Trent Reznor, but I might like him if i did... Oh wait, you said Marilyn Manson a few posts ago... I'm skeptical, but i'll look him up
Nine Inch Nails is Trent Reznor. Trent Reznor is Nine Inch Nails. All the rest of the people you see playing with him in any videos or concerts have came and went and been substituted for other peons throughout the years. Since the beginning, Reznor wrote every part for every instrument, and played them all himself when recording the album...then got people to tour with him.

Right, got it now :D

And if you're looking for info on peoples fav. bands, mine is Relient K

Another example could be Dave Grohl. He drummed for Nirvana from 1990 until Cobain's suicide in 1994. Since then, he's primary focus has been guitarist and lead vocals for The Foo Fighters, but he's also worked on lots of side projects, including drumming for one of the Queens of the Stone Age albums, drumming for the Tenacious D album (and playing the role of Satan in their "Tribute" video), and some other projects.

I'm not sure whether he's even close to as influential as Reznor, but he has been dubbed "Best Drummer in the Universe" and on the Foo Fighters self titled debut, he played all the instruments in the album and recorded it pretty much entirely by himself with the exception of the song X-Static.

In my opinion, the most impressive part about Trent Reznor isn't what he says in his lyrics, it's the descriptiveness of his songs without vocals that shows his real talent. Ever heard "A Warm Place" by Nine Inch Nails? Once you hear that song, you'll know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

How come any time anyone starts any sort of thread about any sort of music genre, there are always trollers that show up and feel it necessary to say something to the effect of "Why don't you listen to some good music?"

I kind of get tired of always explaining to them that quality and genre are not related, and that I sample from lots of genres and honestly, probably have a better idea of "good music" than most people here.

But also, there's the idea that "good music" and "appealing music" are related, which is also wrong. In any art form (and music is an art form) there are often times really, really, really good artists who do not make art that appeals to very many (if any) people. Conversely, there are almost always shitty artists who make art that for some reason appeals to a ton of people (eh, Britney Spears is the easiest example).

Now, all of what I said in this thread is up for discussion, but the underlying theme of this thread is that appeal is a personal thing, and quality is not based on appeal, and I'm fucking tired of 12 year old trolls telling me that the good/bad music that appeals to me (for whatever reason) is bad music (just because it doesn't appeal to me). So quit telling people that the music they listen to sucks.
There's really a quite simple answer.

RAPCORE SUCKS! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9337403)

Korn's retarded, for being whining goths. Their lead singer sucks because he keeps FAILING at suicide attempts. And they suck so bad, that they're a goth band, who broke up because a member became a born-again. Lame.

I thought the Jay-Z\Linkin Park cross-over was good. But it smelled too much like, "Aerosmith and Run DMC." In other words, it was stenched with money, and we'll likely look back and think it was retarded.

As for Limp Bizkit, I believe the deathmetal band, Anal ****, said it best, with their song, "Limp Bizkit Thinks They're Black But They're Just Gay."

Yes. Anal **** is horrible. But the title of that one song makes up for it 1000%.

Helmet? Faith No More?

Al Jourgensen? Steve Albini?

There's really a quite simple answer.

RAPCORE SUCKS!

Korn's retarded, for being whining goths. Their lead singer sucks because he keeps FAILING at suicide attempts. And they suck so bad, that they're a goth band, who broke up because a member became a born-again. Lame.

I thought the Jay-Z\Linkin Park cross-over was good. But it smelled too much like, "Aerosmith and Run DMC." In other words, it was stenched with money, and we'll likely look back and think it was retarded.

As for Limp Bizkit, I believe the deathmetal band, Anal ****, said it best, with their song, "Limp Bizkit Thinks They're Black But They're Just Gay."

Yes. Anal **** is horrible. But the title of that one song makes up for it 1000%.
Too bad this thread isn't about anything you just mentioned. Go away troller. Whoever said any of the bands you mentioned were good anyway? I'm not even going to discuss their quality, but mostly because you say "I thought..." and musical quality has less to do with opinion than you think.

And by the way, I'm glad you completely ignored one of my comments. I mean, does "genre and quality aren't related" just go straight through your head?

In my opinion, the most impressive part about Trent Reznor isn't what he says in his lyrics, it's the descriptiveness of his songs without vocals that shows his real talent. Ever heard "A Warm Place" by Nine Inch Nails? Once you hear that song, you'll know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
In addition to "A Warm Place," another example is "The Frail"

Well. I may be a lot different than anyone else. I listen to the most interesting mix of music.

Some of the stuff i listen to:
311
Aerosmith
Linkin Park
Metalica
Ozzy Ozborne
Disturbed
3 Doors Down
Creed
Louis Armstrong
Glenn Miller


So yeah. I like about anything. Although i'm not too interested in what they call "pop" and i'm don't like country at all.

You people all need to listen to some good music for a change.

I listen to:

Nelly Furtado
Beck
Coldplay
Michael Jackson
Eminem
Jennifer Lopez
Linkin Park
Blink 182
Barenaked Ladies

...different from the rest of yous...

I listen to:

Nelly Furtado
Beck
Coldplay
Michael Jackson
Eminem
Jennifer Lopez
Linkin Park
Blink 182
Barenaked Ladies

...different from the rest of yous...
strange indeed but I can probably beat it, though Jennifer Lopez throws off my chances. Nelly Furtado is good, she has a unique voice, she does a couple appearances in rap songs and makes them better: Jurassic 5 "Thin Line" and Ms Jade and Timbaland "Ching Ching"

I listen to:

Nelly Furtado
Beck
Coldplay
Michael Jackson
Eminem
Jennifer Lopez
Linkin Park
Blink 182
Barenaked Ladies

...different from the rest of yous...

Yes, very different, you're more normal :D

So what's the deal with quality? I personally can't stand pop bands that get formed by TV shows. The same goes for solo artists that are made under the same conditions... It's an inherent bias I have, but I personally don't feel that this is quality music.

Musical tastes are entirely subjective.

Bands such as The Sex Pistols could barely play thier instruments, and yet, have become legendary, while musicians such as Al DiMeola are virtuosos, but are not widely known.

So musical ability has little to do with it.

Whats crap to you, may be my favorite band, and vice versa, so who is anyone to say whats truly good and what isnt?

what amazes me about this forum is the huge proportion of fans of rock from the 70s and 80s, goth rock, prog rock stuff and all the other sub-genres. id say about 75% of the people here are into queen, led zeppelin, pink floyd, evanesance, NIN, etc etc.
im in the other 25% because i really cant stand the stuff mentioned above, im an indie kid. i also find it amazing how people my age can be so into bands which their mums and dads were into, it just wouldnt seem cool to me, id much rather like a band which is part of my generation.

what amazes me about this forum is the huge proportion of fans of rock from the 70s and 80s, goth rock, prog rock stuff and all the other sub-genres. id say about 75% of the people here are into queen, led zeppelin, pink floyd, evanesance, NIN, etc etc.
im in the other 25% because i really cant stand the stuff mentioned above, im an indie kid. i also find it amazing how people my age can be so into bands which their mums and dads were into, it just wouldnt seem cool to me, id much rather like a band which is part of my generation.


In that case I would say your missing out on a lot of great music all becuase you think you should be listening to music that is current.

Listen to music becuase youve heard it and like it, when it was written is meaningless.

Another example could be Dave Grohl. He drummed for Nirvana from 1990 until Cobain's suicide in 1994. Since then, he's primary focus has been guitarist and lead vocals for The Foo Fighters, but he's also worked on lots of side projects, including drumming for one of the Queens of the Stone Age albums, drumming for the Tenacious D album (and playing the role of Satan in their "Tribute" video), and some other projects.

I'm not sure whether he's even close to as influential as Reznor, but he has been dubbed "Best Drummer in the Universe" and on the Foo Fighters self titled debut, he played all the instruments in the album and recorded it pretty much entirely by himself with the exception of the song X-Static.

Yep, Dave Grohl is awesome.

In that case I would say your missing out on a lot of great music all becuase you think you should be listening to music that is current.

Listen to music becuase youve heard it and like it, when it was written is meaningless.

well i dont mind the beatles, and 80s indie is good (joy division/NO, the smiths, echo and the bunnymen etc) but other than that old music says nothing to me. i think when it was written has a huge effect, im surprised you dispute this. something written this year is going to be instantly more up to date and in tune with the feel of the times than something written in the past. also if you are into new music then you get lots of fresh tracks, not the same old ones going round and round on repeat, which surely must get a bit boring?

In that case I would say your missing out on a lot of great music all becuase you think you should be listening to music that is current.

Listen to music becuase youve heard it and like it, when it was written is meaningless.

^ Agreed.

well i dont mind the beatles, and 80s indie is good (joy division/NO, the smiths, echo and the bunnymen etc) but other than that old music says nothing to me. i think when it was written has a huge effect, im surprised you dispute this. something written this year is going to be instantly more up to date and in tune with the feel of the times than something written in the past. also if you are into new music then you get lots of fresh tracks, not the same old ones going round and round on repeat, which surely must get a bit boring?



A good song is a good song, regardless of when it was written.

If you think that only the new stuff is good, then your making yourself miss out on a lot of really good music out there.
Open your mind a little bit...just becuase its not "indie" rock, doesnt mean its not good music.

As for older music not being "in touch" with whats going on today, I refer you to a few Bob Dylan tunes, that apply perfectly to todays political scenes.
(Im not a fan of Dylan, mind you..but his lyrics were genius.)

Music is like food.
You never know what you like unless you try it.

A good song is a good song, regardless of when it was written.

If you think that only the new stuff is good, then your making yourself miss out on a lot of really good music out there.
Open your mind a little bit...just becuase its not "indie" rock, doesnt mean its not good music.

As for older music not being "in touch" with whats going on today, I refer you to a few Bob Dylan tunes, that apply perfectly to todays political scenes.
(Im not a fan of Dylan, mind you..but his lyrics were genius.)

Music is like food.
You never know what you like unless you try it.


look, i thought this thread was complaining about people who say 'listen to some good music'? because this is what i feel you are doing to me, just not rudely, more highbrow trolling.

back to your arguments.

ive already said i like some older stuff, its just the majority of music i listen to is very recent indie.

and its not like ive never heard anything except whatevers new, its just that the majority of older rock ive listened too i havent liked, it just seems overblown, show offy, ego boosting stuff to me, and thats not what i think music should be about. this is why i dont listen to it, because id rather listen to four or five songs, rather than one extremely long guitar solo in the same amount of time.

look, i thought this thread was complaining about people who say 'listen to some good music'? because this is what i feel you are doing to me, just not rudely, more highbrow trolling.

back to your arguments.

ive already said i like some older stuff, its just the majority of music i listen to is very recent indie.

and its not like ive never heard anything except whatevers new, its just that the majority of older rock ive listened too i havent liked, it just seems overblown, show offy, ego boosting stuff to me, and thats not what i think music should be about. this is why i dont listen to it, because id rather listen to four or five songs, rather than one extremely long guitar solo in the same amount of time.

I remember you now....

We've had this discussion before, you and I.

Firstly, whoever said I was talking about Rock, and no other genre of music?

Secondly, Im not trying to patronize you, but if you take that from my posts, I cant help that.

Im simply attempting to break through, what I feel, are some limitations that you have set for yourself, as far as musical tastes go.
Theres so many other genres you should explore, other than Radiohead, and that stuff. If thats what you truly love, thats cool, but check out some Miles Davis, or some Herbie Hancock, or some Muddy Waters...the list is endless.
The best thing about music, is that theres so much of it.
No one says you have to like Buttrock, long hair and spandex..cheese is cheese..but then again..one mans cheese...
Just dont pidgeon-hole yourself.

Then there's the musical whacko like me who enjoys music from the Radioheads, Placebos, Massive Attacks, Portisheads - all the way the list to Dimmu Borgir, Emperor, Anaal Nathrakh, and other blasphemosly delicious styles of ultra-satanic black metal. Not to mention some Bluegrass (no band names, but most of the random bluegrass I hear I enjoy) and Classical Guitar works from Segovia, Tarrega, and some Brazillian composers. I'm a musical nutcase. I play classical guitar as well.

Wewt.

I remember you now....

We've had this discussion before, you and I.

Firstly, whoever said I was talking about Rock, and no other genre of music?

Secondly, Im not trying to patronize you, but if you take that from my posts, I cant help that.

Im simply attempting to break through, what I feel, are some limitations that you have set for yourself, as far as musical tastes go.
Theres so many other genres you should explore, other than Radiohead, and that stuff. If thats what you truly love, thats cool, but check out some Miles Davis, or some Herbie Hancock, or some Muddy Waters...the list is endless.
The best thing about music, is that theres so much of it.
No one says you have to like Buttrock, long hair and spandex..cheese is cheese..but then again..one mans cheese...
Just dont pidgeon-hole yourself.

were you in the rock frontman thread? i remember going round in circles with saderji and someone else...must have been you.

i assumed you were talking about rock (in the broadest terms), if you are not then im sorry. obviously you like a bit of jazz/blues too.

as i said, its not that ive decided i dont like this stuff without listening to it. remember that indie is a very large genre that will cover the same different sounds as the rest of music (probably excepting urban). maybe if you think im missing out (which i may be), the same may be true for you. i get the impression (stop me if im wrong) that you listen mainly to music from the past?

Then there's the musical whacko like me who enjoys music from the Radioheads, Placebos, Massive Attacks, Portisheads - all the way the list to Dimmu Borgir, Emperor, Anaal Nathrakh, and other blasphemosly delicious styles of ultra-satanic black metal. Not to mention some Bluegrass (no band names, but most of the random bluegrass I hear I enjoy) and Classical Guitar works from Segovia, Tarrega, and some Brazillian composers. I'm a musical nutcase. I play classical guitar as well.

Wewt.

Hehehe. Being a musical nutcase is the best way. :)

were you in the rock frontman thread? i remember going round in circles with saderji and someone else...must have been you.

i assumed you were talking about rock (in the broadest terms), if you are not then im sorry. obviously you like a bit of jazz/blues too.

as i said, its not that ive decided i dont like this stuff without listening to it. remember that indie is a very large genre that will cover the same different sounds as the rest of music (probably excepting urban). maybe if you think im missing out (which i may be), the same may be true for you. i get the impression (stop me if im wrong) that you listen mainly to music from the past?


Oh no, not at all.
I would say that the majority of what I listen to is music from the past, but its a slim majority at that.
Rock, metal, jazz, blues, classical, a tiny bit of country, (Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson),
Everything from Bach to The Shins, to Black Sabbath....you get the idea.
Im a musician as well, so I try to keep abreast of what some of the local music scene is doing as well.
Theres stuff I like from every genre there is, I think.

Oh no, not at all.
I would say that the majority of what I listen to is music from the past, but its a slim majority at that.
Rock, metal, jazz, blues, classical, a tiny bit of country, (Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson),
Everything from Bach to The Shins, to Black Sabbath....you get the idea.
Im a musician as well, so I try to keep abreast of what some of the local music scene is doing as well.
Theres stuff I like from every genre there is, I think.


a musician eh? what do you play? im a guitarist.

(i must go now, but i will check later)

a musician eh? what do you play? im a guitarist.

(i must go now, but i will check later)


Im a singer, and I play rythmn guitar....cant solo for crap.

Im a singer, and I play rythmn guitar....cant solo for crap.

i cant solo either. and i also cant sing.

(ok really going now)