NationStates Jolt Archive

I jsut got this from reading what some one wrote in the Roe v Wade thread. Christians, and other rightwing activists on this subject, can save thousands of lives, or how many "lives" are ended through abortion, a year by doing one simple thing: fighting for proper sex education and advocating the use of birth control, as well as not playing semantics games with "morning after pills."

Abstinence education, advocating abstinence and scare tactics to support abstinence without even the slightest real education, has not provided any sort of reduction in child births among teenagers. Therefore Christians should stop advocating scare tactics education and demand properly planned and educated sex education which inform teens of birth control methods and include the advocation of abstinence while leaving out the plane scare of the previous scare tactics (do we really need to see the pictures of various STDs for the 100th time? or do we really need to have women who were emotionally scarred by abortions to come in and tell sob stories?). Also they can do without the fighting against school nurse offices distributing condoms, who does that hurt? really? do you think a teenager, after being hit with a myriad of fire-side horror tales, is going to go to a corner store where some one might see them and pick up a box of condoms? The first step to fixing the problem is mixing the right amount of taboo with the right amount of freedom.

Another thing Christians could do without harassing is "morning after pills," which rightwing advocates do their damndest to directly relate to pills SPECIFICALLY for enducing abortions such as RU486. The truth of the matter is morning after pills are taken to flush out an egg (who the hell knows if its fertilized? I don't) after sex in case of some sort of emergency occurrence. But hell, even if you disagree with this and declare it almost-nearly-but-not-quite pre-first-week abortion, what would be the point of keeping it from being distributed at pharmacies, causing family stores like walmart to just not distribute it at all? Didn't people try that years ago? Oh yeah, Griswold v Connecticut. You can't go around (figuratively) screwing people over religious objection (which was the case in Griswold, damn them wives and wanting to have protection from having babies, blasphemy I say, blasphemy!).


Now all you Christians, start advocacy and websites to support REAL sex education and "morning after pills" to save thousands of innocent (semi-but-not-quite) lives!

Your entire premise is wrong.

Teen birth rates and teen abortions are down compared to what they were ten and fifteen years ago.

You either have to take everything you just said back, or find another reason why what you said they were doing wrong and is not working actually looks like it is working...I’ll assume that you will say it’s working in spite of everything they are doing ‘wrong.’

Please don't paint me with that brush. I have no problem with abortion in the first trimester, I enjoy the benifits of Canadian sex ed (which does include pictures of STD's, but also information such as success rates of various birth controls, relationships, etc.), and while I have read some negative things about some morning after pills and want more study on them, I do not disagree with them in principle. Oh, and I'm Presbryterian.
Not all Christians are right wing, I'm not. Not all Christians are anti-abortion. That's no more responsible than saying all American's are gun toting warmongers, it's true of some, maybe a majority (not being an American, I wouldn't know) and sometimes it may be the most vocal group, but please, don't address stuff like this to Christians or any other general group.

Marric']Please don't paint me with that brush. I have no problem with abortion in the first trimester, I enjoy the benifits of Canadian sex ed (which does include pictures of STD's, but also information such as success rates of various birth controls, relationships, etc.), and while I have read some negative things about some morning after pills and want more study on them, I do not disagree with them in principle. Oh, and I'm Presbryterian.
Not all Christians are right wing, I'm not. Not all Christians are anti-abortion. That's no more responsible than saying all American's are gun toting warmongers, it's true of some, maybe a majority (not being an American, I wouldn't know) and sometimes it may be the most vocal group, but please, don't address stuff like this to Christians or any other general group.
Let me add I am discussing America

Birth rates have fallen for teens overall in the 1990s as well as for unmarried teens since mid-decade; however, the proportion of births to teenagers that are to unmarried teens has continued to rise, from 14 percent in 1940 to 67 percent in 1990 and 79 percent in 2000. This is because very few teens are marrying today and the birth rate for married teens has dropped substantially.
its late and I don't pretend to wholly understand what they just said, but something increased
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/01facts/teenbirths.htm

its late and I don't pretend to wholly understand what they just said, but something increased
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/01facts/teenbirths.htm

That says that the teenage girls that get pregnant used to get married because of it, now they don't get married, but have the children out of wedlock. But the percentage of girls that get pregnant overall is declining, and has been, for about ten to fifteen years.

Yeah I'm getting tired of hearing these other people being grouped in with me and complaining about it.

From now on replace generic Christian with "Catholics and Evangelicals". That way we can stop having these people post over and over again about how they're not with us. Okay. We know. Stop spamming every divisive thread with your "Not I!" posts.

Onto the nub of the matter: I don't know about the Protestant sects, but Catholics admonish contraceptives like they admonish abortions, if to a lesser degree. The Church doesn't deal with the lesser of two evils, moral relativism cannot be allowed.

Onto the nub of the matter: I don't know about the Protestant sects, but Catholics admonish contraceptives like they admonish abortions, if to a lesser degree. The Church doesn't deal with the lesser of two evils, moral relativism cannot be allowed.
I am wholly aware of the Catholic church's stance on contraceptives, not that they openly advocate it without being asked first for their stance any more so as to not look like kooks

Yeah I'm getting tired of hearing these other people being grouped in with me and complaining about it.

From now on replace generic Christian with "Catholics and Evangelicals". That way we can stop having these people post over and over again about how they're not with us. Okay. We know. You can shut up now and stop spamming every divisive thread with your "Not I!" posts.

Onto the nub of the matter: I don't know about the Protestant sects, but Catholics admonish contraceptives like they admonish abortions, if to a lesser degree. The Church doesn't deal with the lesser of two evils, moral relativism cannot be allowed.

Well, you Christians sure don't make it easy on the rest of us with all your quirky peculiarities. Catholic, Evangelical - whatever. The people waving rubber fetuses on sticks on street corners. There. That one works for me a bit better.

So, people who wave rubber fetuses on sticks on street corners admonish contraceptives, do they? Might as well - it's not like they're getting asked out on dates much, what with the waving the rubber fetuses on sticks at people all day.

If you can't contribute intelligent debate, please can it.

Talk about trolling and flamebait.

Well, you Christians sure don't make it easy on the rest of us with all your quirky peculiarities. Catholic, Evangelical - whatever. The people waving rubber fetuses on sticks on street corners. There. That one works for me a bit better.

So, people who wave rubber fetuses on sticks on street corners admonish contraceptives, do they? Might as well - it's not like they're getting asked out on dates much, what with the waving the rubber fetuses on sticks at people all day.

Better that putting bombs on mass transit though, isn't it?

Personally, I can't wait until communism/islamicism wins. It will be great for everyone; and we will finally realize who the true enemy is.

Better that putting bombs on mass transit though, isn't it?

Personally, I can't wait until communism/islamicism wins. It will be great for everyone; and we will finally realize who the true enemy is.
women who show their ankles?

Ihatevacations']I jsut got this from reading what some one wrote in the Roe v Wade thread. Christians, and other rightwing activists on this subject, can save thousands of lives, or how many "lives" are ended through abortion, a year by doing one simple thing: fighting for proper sex education and advocating the use of birth control, as well as not playing semantics games with "morning after pills."

Abstinence education, advocating abstinence and scare tactics to support abstinence without even the slightest real education, has not provided any sort of reduction in child births among teenagers. Therefore Christians should stop advocating scare tactics education and demand properly planned and educated sex education which inform teens of birth control methods and include the advocation of abstinence while leaving out the plane scare of the previous scare tactics (do we really need to see the pictures of various STDs for the 100th time? or do we really need to have women who were emotionally scarred by abortions to come in and tell sob stories?). Also they can do without the fighting against school nurse offices distributing condoms, who does that hurt? really? do you think a teenager, after being hit with a myriad of fire-side horror tales, is going to go to a corner store where some one might see them and pick up a box of condoms? The first step to fixing the problem is mixing the right amount of taboo with the right amount of freedom.

Another thing Christians could do without harassing is "morning after pills," which rightwing advocates do their damndest to directly relate to pills SPECIFICALLY for enducing abortions such as RU486. The truth of the matter is morning after pills are taken to flush out an egg (who the hell knows if its fertilized? I don't) after sex in case of some sort of emergency occurrence. But hell, even if you disagree with this and declare it almost-nearly-but-not-quite pre-first-week abortion, what would be the point of keeping it from being distributed at pharmacies, causing family stores like walmart to just not distribute it at all? Didn't people try that years ago? Oh yeah, Griswold v Connecticut. You can't go around (figuratively) screwing people over religious objection (which was the case in Griswold, damn them wives and wanting to have protection from having babies, blasphemy I say, blasphemy!).


Now all you Christians, start advocacy and websites to support REAL sex education and "morning after pills" to save thousands of innocent (semi-but-not-quite) lives!

Your asking a bit much if you expect people to just give up their core beliefes . Christian or otherwise . As to taking the pragmatic approach , I have to say the majority of the population practices some form of birth control reguardless of religion . You have a group of fundementalist trying to preach a different view ( Christian fundementalist ) . They have every right to preach it as long as they allow dissent from those that do not share the same views . The information is out there for everyone , The problem is you can lead an idiot to have sex but you cant force them to use their brain .
religion wont change that .

Better that putting bombs on mass transit though, isn't it?

Personally, I can't wait until communism/islamicism wins. It will be great for everyone; and we will finally realize who the true enemy is.
wtf does that have to do with the rest of this thread?

I mean, seriously, can you contain your hatred of communism and islam to threads that at least deal with one or the other subject?

Also, communism and islam have nothing to do with each other.

And also, christians have blown up abortion clinics in the past, what is your point here?

Ihatevacations']as well as not playing semantics games with "morning after pills."

contraceptive = a measure that prevents conception. morning after pills do not prevent contraception - the kill an already concived human being and are there for abortive agents. there, the samantics game is over

contraceptive = a measure that prevents conception. morning after pills do not prevent contraception - the kill an already concived human being and are there for abortive agents. there, the samantics game is over
For one thing, morning after pills prevent conception as well as prevent implantation.
It cannot cause abortion, as abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Since pregnancy does not begin until implantation and morning after pills don't do anything at all to an already implanted zygote, it is not an abortive agent.

Also, 4 cells does not constitute a human being.

And also, christians have blown up abortion clinics in the past, what is your point here?

they blew them up where there wern't people in them (atleast the Catholics did) they just destroyed the instuments of death, not the killers. from a moral standpoint - what wrong with that?

contraceptive = a measure that prevents conception. morning after pills do not prevent contraception - the kill an already concived human being and are there for abortive agents. there, the samantics game is over
wrong, it is a PRESUMED consumed human being, you can't prove that conception has or hasn't or WON'T happen, it is just an extra precaution. Your trying to liken it to abortion pills, which it isn't by itself without omnipotent knowledge of the action of every single sperm

Ihatevacations']women who show their ankles?

It's a worrying trend.

It's a worrying trend.
that reminds me, how long did the victorian era last, would like to know how long it takes the attractive middle eastern women to get into some better clothes, the unattractive ones can too if they REALLY must

and morning after pills don't do anything at all to an already implanted zygote, it is not an abortive agent.

first off, either way that isn't a contraceptive. seccond, from what I've been told (by doctors) most will kill an implanted baby in the early stages of pregnancy

Also, 4 cells does not constitute a human being.

to you

the reason we don't is quite simple. the goal isn't to reduce teen pregnancy, although that would be nice. it's to support abstinance. just as much emotional damage is done through pre-marital sex as through unwanted pregnancies.

Ihatevacations']wrong, it is a PRESUMED consumed human being, you can't prove that conception has or hasn't or WON'T happen, it is just an extra precaution. Your trying to liken it to abortion pills, which it isn't by itself without omnipotent knowledge of the action of every single sperm

so if it hasn't been concived it does nothing, if it has the baby is killed.........how does that prevent conception and not preform abortion again?

the reason we don't is quite simple. the goal isn't to reduce teen pregnancy, although that would be nice. it's to support abstinance. just as much emotional damage is done through pre-marital sex as through unwanted pregnancies.
i'd like to see some scientific proof of that ludicrous theory. how is POST marital sex any less traumatizing than premarital? what is with this magic barrier I keep hearing about called marriage, it apparently prevents all evil done to people once it is

so if it hasn't been concived it does nothing, if it has the baby is killed.........how does that prevent conception and not preform abortion again?
go look up some facts then I might bother getting back to you

wtf does that have to do with the rest of this thread?

I mean, seriously, can you contain your hatred of communism and islam to threads that at least deal with one or the other subject?

Also, communism and islam have nothing to do with each other.

And also, christians have blown up abortion clinics in the past, what is your point here?

My point is that christianty is irrelevant. It is a dying belief, and frankly does little these days, so complaining about it is somewhat self-serving.

You can't say the same for islam: It is growing, and harbours beliefs that are antithetical to the establishment of a true secular society. Moreover it is protesting this dislocation through random terrorist attacks with increasing frequency.

I am well aware of the abortion clinic thing. But let's face it, it is not the same at all. Those people are nutters, and are not supported at all by the general community.

(Communism I just threw in because I don't like it; but all communist countries are execptionally prudish, you have to admit that.)

Ihatevacations']that reminds me, how long did the victorian era last, would like to know how long it takes the attractive middle eastern women to get into some better clothes, the unattractive ones can too if they REALLY must

Good point. The new burkah should be designed by victoria secret. I am sure that is what allah would want.

If you can't contribute intelligent debate, please can it.

Talk about trolling and flamebait.

I thought this was a thread on how Christians can save more lives, not a thread on trolling and flamebait. Why would I want to 'talk about trolling and flamebait'?

Anyway, it should be fairly clear that what I was contributing, in lieu of intelligent debate, was a bit of barbed wit. Consider that my statement, instead of some emotional chest-thumping, dispassionate deconstruction, or theological maunderings. If you think I make unnecessary light of the topic-at-hand, rest assured, there are more than enough crumpled-browed posters to more than offset what small brief guffaw I might have displeased thine countenance with, m'lord.

Come along now, Toro! Back to the Troll-cave!

*hops into Trollmobile with Boy Flamer as theme music swirls up*

Damn straight I'm your lord.

[QUOTE=Lacadaemon]My point is that christianty is irrelevant. It is a dying belief, and frankly does little these days, so complaining about it is somewhat self-serving.

You can't say the same for islam: It is growing, and harbours beliefs that are antithetical to the establishment of a true secular society. Moreover it is protesting this dislocation through random terrorist attacks with increasing frequency.
:cool:
"Don't underestimate Catholics, Pagan. Christian history is a history of conflict.
We've built ourselves into the mightiest religion by way of mountains of corpses and rivers of blood left by inquisitions and the suppression of heathens."
"The Vatican ist the Earthly agent of YAHWEH! You Pagan bastards vill never defeat us!! So, Allah Aqbar!" :sniper:
-"Crossfire" by Kohta Hirano