NationStates Jolt Archive

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!

NOTE: This is NOT a debate on intelligent design, so please do not allow it to de-evolve into that. I'm asking why you believe.

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!

People believe in god so they can have someone other to blame than themselves when they screw their lives up.

I look back on some of the things in my life and I KNOW there is someone up there looking out for me.

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!
I have said it before, and I will say it again:


It is my personal belief that human nature is to blame for religion. We all want simplicity-simple answers to life's big questions, like "What is right? What is wrong? What is good? What is bad? Why am I here? What is the meaning of life? Is there a meaning of life? What happens when we die? Does anything happen when we die?" We are curious creatures, and we want to find simple answers to every question we can possibly think of.

Most of us would rather have someone else provide answers for us than find the answer ourselves. We want someone else to guide us, morally, religiously, politically... entirely. We don't want to have to think for ourselves.

Some people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. They want to blame their bad behavior or lack of initiative in their life on a higher power. "I murdered him because God spoke to me and told me to do it!"

Some people are simply raised on a specific religion and don't think to defy it. They live their entire lives never once wavering from what they have been taught, and they live nice, pleasant lives where their faith in their religion never has to be brought to question. They will never know the incredibly satisfying feeling of finding their own answers, realizing your own beliefs. I pity them.

I look back on some of the things in my life and I KNOW there is someone up there looking out for me.
Lucky you.

The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

Lets, for the sake of argument, assume that the universe is infinite or at least close enough so as not to make a difference. As there are a limited number of variables to manipulate (different combinations of elements and such) an ordered and structured planet like earth was not possible but definite. It is an infinite system with a finite number of possibilites. So the earth was not a mistake, but it was created, more or less, randomly. This is why I belive that intelligent design is a flawed theory.

I think the reason others belive in God is that it is a terrifying thought that we have no purpose, no reason and the we could all be washed away in the blink of an eye with no consequences at all. Belief in a higher power lets people think that they are imporant in some sense and that should they be washed away that it would not be the end, but only the beggining of somthing better.

I look back on some of the things in my life and I KNOW there is someone up there looking out for me.

You think maybe with the entirety of creation to look out for, this putative figure might have a bit more on his hands than just you?

Religion = solipsism. Discuss.

"Why do we believe in God, or how to start a flame war"

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

Lack of intelligent design =/= mistake. The universe is as it is because this is the only way it could be, according to the laws of our reality. That is anything but a mistake.

Saying that you find the universe amazing and therefore it must have been generated by God is like looking at a rose and declaring that such beauty could only have come about through the work of magic pixies. It is an insult to both the power of your mind and the beauty of the flower.

You think maybe with the entirety of creation to look out for, this putative figure might have a bit more on his hands than just you?

Religion = solipsism. Discuss.

No. God has nothing better to do then to 'look-out' for him. And look out for you, and me and everyone else simultaneously, thankfully God is really, really good and multitasking :D

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!


What makes you think that the universe is perfect?

And back to the original question. Personally i do not believe in 'God'. But I think that most people believe in 'God' either because they find comfort in someone else looking out for them, or because it is a belief inherited from their parents.

No. God has nothing better to do then to 'look-out' for him. And look out for you, and me and everyone else simultaneously, thankfully God is really, really good and multitasking :D

Precisely my point. Rather than accepting that things are, by and large, random, and things don't necessarily happen for a reason, or at least any reason we could comprehend, lets not get into quantum physics, it's MUCH MUCH easier to think there's this white haired old guy up there directing our lives.

Hence, as i said, solipsism. The guy who runs the universe is ALSO RUNNING MY LIFE.

Pffffft.

I think religion is a natural adaptation that humans developed once they became intelligent enough to contemplate death, and infinite nothingness. I think its purpose is too motivate humans and give them a reason to keep living instead of quivering on the ground, dreading and bemoaning your inevitable demise and the infite blackness which is death.

Can you define by what you mean by god

Jesus's DAD ??

Or our creator ??

Precisely my point. Rather than accepting that things are, by and large, random, and things don't necessarily happen for a reason, or at least any reason we could comprehend, lets not get into quantum physics, it's MUCH MUCH easier to think there's this white haired old guy up there directing our lives.

Hence, as i said, solipsism. The guy who runs the universe is ALSO RUNNING MY LIFE.

Pffffft.


You point seems to be that you don't believe it could be true. Since it is unfathomable, there can't be a God. The exact same argument as the original poster's argument, but your unfathomable results in the conclusion of, no God, and his unfathomable results in there must be a God. Neither argument is more valid than the other. Neither is truer than the other.

will i am just going to keep it semple hope craets god's and religion's

You point seems to be that you don't believe it could be true. Since it is unfathomable, there can't be a God. The exact same argument as the original poster's argument, but your unfathomable results in the conclusion of, no God, and his unfathomable results in there must be a God. Neither argument is more valid than the other. Neither is truer than the other.

I didn't say the second part, actually. The first part, yeah, i don't believe it's true. The second part...no. I don't think the whole God thing is unfathomable at all. Basic psychology. Fear of the unknown coupled with an inability to accept meaninglessness. Or do you mean the universe is unfathomable? Yeah, ok, to a degree, although that will change with time.

I dunno, depends what definition of "God" you are using. If you are one of those freaky deaky "God is the universe" pantheist types, then, yeah, suppose it does exist. As in, the universe. If you are one of the monotheist, Abrahamic religion types, do me a favour, if you believe that, i have a bridge you can buy.

God is the HAL 9000. Completely infallible in all aspects, but created by man. FischerSpooner is some crazy music.

The designer theory has it's flaws, I don't think there is a theologian who would disagree with this. And yet the theory of infinite universes (Which seems to be the counter argument here) also has it's flaws in that it assumes an awful lot, such as the fact there is an infinite number of universes. Surely this theory takes as big a leap of faith as the desinger argument? I've no doubt some will disagree, but for me, I know it is.
There is also the problem of defining God in the terms and language we use, perhaps it's just not possible. There is a Hermetic belief that God is the joining of opposites (Amongst many other things, this is just an example) I find if you try to understand Black and White coming together without making Grey, it starts you on the right road of thinking...like a Koan only a little more straightforward.

Can you define by what you mean by god

Jesus's DAD ??

Or our creator ??

I will be back later hopefully I can answer when I get a definition ;)

God is the HAL 9000. Completely infallible in all aspects, but created by man. FischerSpooner is some crazy music.


"Emerge" is a toon.

i am the tipe that thinks god is the uinverse all thoue i am going tourd a new understading of it i dot qiet got a caler picere of it yet but that is for me to grasp. but i am come to the understanding if there is a good it cout pusebley be space it's self it was here way before the universe.

I believe in god because religion gives me answers that make sense to me about questions not even science can answer. What happens when we die? All science says is that WE cease to exist and that OUR BODIES simply rot into plant food. Science is also the thing that says that nothing can cease to exist and that everything can only simply convert into something else, which contradicts the thing about death. Religion answers questions. So does Science. Both are absolutely imperfect. Why was there always matter? Why was everything once in a neat, tiny package? Why did it get all explody? Does science answer those questions. I accept that things can be random. I just believe that not everything is.

I believe that there is probably a God out there although I don't believe in the 'fate' crap. She probably created the universe and set it in motion so that things play out on it's own without much interference.

My reason for believing in a higher being is because I feel so insignificant in such a never-ending universe. There has to be an origin or a beginning to time and space, and I think someone greater than us played a part in it.

i have foud mouch in zen a nice but unqick blend of religion and scince and philosophy. but waht if in porfecion is porfection so every thing is porfect all reday there is noting to pefect so way not just be happy for liveing. just be

I believe in god because religion gives me answers that make sense to me about questions not even science can answer. What happens when we die? All science says is that WE cease to exist and that OUR BODIES simply rot into plant food. Science is also the thing that says that nothing can cease to exist and that everything can only simply convert into something else, which contradicts the thing about death. Religion answers questions. So does Science. Both are absolutely imperfect. Why was there always matter? Why was everything once in a neat, tiny package? Why did it get all explody? Does science answer those questions. I accept that things can be random. I just believe that not everything is.

I must agree, but I think it goes further. For all it's hopes and dreams science cannot explain quite alot, but yet it seems because a man in a white coat tells us something is true, it must infact be true.
Science cannot explain meaning, and yet it is something that we, as humans, comprehend with little or no training. IT cannot not be measured, yet still exists. This can be seen within the relationship between any two people, even complete strangers...we know whats going on, and yet it is not something that be notated by a mathmatician.

Just look around you. It's obvious.

Why do we believe in God?
I think it is a natural extension of man's ability to conceptualize, imagine, and find meaning in things. That is how we participate in the world around us, we human beings. Of all earth's creatures, imagination is ours to command and control. With it, we symbolize, theorize, mathematize and philosophize. We abstract parts of ourselves and assign them to objects apart from us.

What is it we are believing in, when we believe in god? It is something infinitely good, infinitely caring, infinitely grand. It is the unimaginable, the imagining that goes off the chart. There be dragons. Why should we believe in dragons? Because without them, this would be a very starchy life indeed.

Why do you?
I felt it once, that infinite caring.

What makes you think that the universe is perfect?

Lets see you build one then!

In addition to such a fine thread, I would like to say that the reason I believe in religion, well, my religion, is that all things happen for a reason, and there are many many things which humans shall never understand.

NOTE: This is NOT a debate on intelligent design, so please do not allow it to de-evolve into that. I'm asking why you believe.

Did anyone bother reading this before posting, by the way?

Lucky you.
Thank you.

Just look around you. It's obvious.
Yes. There is most definitely no "god". :p

*I seriously HATE the fact that I am always compelled to get involved in Religious threads.*

I personally don't know why anyone believes in God, other than to have someone to blame for all the crap that goes on in their lives - if someone already wrote that, I'm sorry: didn't read the full thread before replying!

God is the HAL 9000. Completely infallible in all aspects, but created by man. FischerSpooner is some crazy music.

Thankyou, someone who agrees with what I say: I try to tell people that, but they just call me jealous. Jealous? "Because I don't share in loving the Lord," they tell me. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, need a long hard think about that one.

Is there ever the possiblity that there just IS A GOD, or is that not a valid answer? Every time is say there is one, people ask me why I think so, I just do. I don't need reasons for everything I think. There isn't a reason for everything. Some things just are. It's hard to be a Christian these days when everywhere you turn there's some atheist missionary trying to convert you, but I am and I don't give a flying fuck what anyone says.

You think maybe with the entirety of creation to look out for, this putative figure might have a bit more on his hands than just you?

Religion = solipsism. Discuss.
I never said that I was the only one he looks after. HE makes time for eveyone who wishes to speak to him. even with the entirety of creation to look after... after all, you and I are part of his creation.

Why do I believe in telephones or Ethiopia or Jay Leno or Mt. Everest or licorice or God or anything else? Because it's there.

Oh what have I done...?

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds..."

Hence, as i said, solipsism. The guy who runs the universe is ALSO RUNNING MY LIFE.

Pffffft. Yeah, and also everyone else's. Therefore, not solipsism.

[snip]
It's hard to be a Christian these days when everywhere you turn there's some atheist missionary trying to convert you[...]

[snip]
It's hard to be an Atheist these days when everywhere you turn there's some Christian missionary trying to convert you[...]

I think that is true for both sides.

Is there ever the possiblity that there just IS A GOD, or is that not a valid answer? Every time is say there is one, people ask me why I think so, I just do. I don't need reasons for everything I think. There isn't a reason for everything. Some things just are. It's hard to be a Christian these days when everywhere you turn there's some atheist missionary trying to convert you, but I am and I don't give a flying fuck what anyone says.

Brava!

Standing up for what you believe in. Although I think that some things have NO reason, I believe that a belief in a Supreme Being does require some justification: just as not believing in said being does. I used to be a Christian, and I always felt as though there was something not quite right about the whole thing. Like, the Bible is the Christian Holy Book, although it was written by Roman Emperor Constantine wrote it - virtually himself - in Constantinopole in the 3rd Century AD. And, the Christian persecution of Wiccan worshippers - my Christian friend likes to call them "Devil Worshipping Witches." Some areas of Wiccan worship formed the basis of Christianity. For example, it has remarked that "Jesus" wasn't born until between January 1st and 6th. And yet, we celebrate Christmas on December 25th. Why? Wiccan Michaelmas was celebrated 6 days before the new year. Ooh, 25th December.

And there's a whole package of other shit about why I decided it was a load of nonsense - sorry Gourdland.

Why do I believe in telephones or Ethiopia or Jay Leno or Mt. Everest or licorice or God or anything else? Because it's there.
Exactly my point. We don't need a reason to believe in God, we can believe in whatever the hell we want to, we're Americans. And if I want to believe in a higher power I don't need some jackass atheist telling me I'm wrong. Funny how there are no telephonists who don't believe in telephones just because they want to be anti-establishment like ALL ATHEISTS ARE.

If I were God I wouldn't need a reason for people to believe in me, I'd just be like "Hey guys, it's me, God. If you want to believe in me, go ahead, otherwise screw you."

Funny how there are no telephonists who don't believe in telephones just because they want to be anti-establishment like ALL ATHEISTS ARE.
Err, that's a bit of a big assertion to make. All atheists are anti-establishment? There are atheists of all sorts. Some are anti-establishment, some aren't. But it's a bit silly to judge such a large and varied group of people based merely on their choice of religion or lack of it.

Err, that's a bit of a big assertion to make. All atheists are anti-establishment? There are atheists of all sorts. Some are anti-establishment, some aren't. But it's a bit silly to judge such a large and varied group of people based merely on their choice of religion or lack of it.
Like atheists judge us Christians? You don't know "broad stereotyping" until you hear some of the stuff atheists say about us. "All Christians are pro-life." "All Christians hate homosexuals." "All Christians voted for George Bush."... The list goes ON and ON. The fact is, religion or no, it's human nature to stereotype. It's our brain that catalogues something that happens, the immediate result, and keeps it there for any future instances. If you got robbed by some guy in a raggedy coat on 64th street, and you saw a guy in that SAME COAT walking by you, you'd probably get uneasy. Isn't that stereotyping? Does that make you a coatist because you hate that coat now? Actually, IT DOES.

Yes. There is most definitely no "god". :p

you're just fooling yourself, m'man. :)

Funny how there are no telephonists who don't believe in telephones just because they want to be anti-establishment like ALL ATHEISTS ARE.

Now that's not fair. I do not classify all religion as outdated...

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!

NOTE: This is NOT a debate on intelligent design, so please do not allow it to de-evolve into that. I'm asking why you believe.

I believe most people believe in god in one form or another for the following reasons...

1-To explain the unexplainable...science can explain many things, but people want to think there is a meaning for their lives, science cannot offer them these things.

2-Human beings, in general are lonely...wouldnt it give you a feeling of comfort to know there was an almighty watching over you and making sure nothing bad happened to you?

3-Religion is a thing of habit and society...think, if there was suddenly some major scientific development that prooved God(s) in whatever form never existed, many wars would have been fought for absolutely nothing, millions if not billions of people have died in the name of their gods, humans would not be so willing to go to war if the universal belief was that there was no afterlife, no reward for living a morale life and that once your dead thats it.

Exactly my point. We don't need a reason to believe in God, we can believe in whatever the hell we want to, we're Americans. And if I want to believe in a higher power I don't need some jackass atheist telling me I'm wrong. Funny how there are no telephonists who don't believe in telephones just because they want to be anti-establishment like ALL ATHEISTS ARE.

Er, RUDE. I am NOT an anti-establishmentarian, and never will I be. I believe that as soon as you introduce people that want to topple Government and *he says, grudgingly* religion, all you get is anarchy. And stating that ALL atheists are anti-establishmentarians is quite untrue. I don't like the way my country is run, but that doesn't make me an anti-establishmentarian. I don't want to throw my country and my fellow Britons into anarchy, and neither do all the other atheists that have seen past all the lies, and begin to understand that there is NO God.
I am perfectly tolerant of ALL religions, and even admire some people for following the religion that they follow, but I personally think that the only reason there are religions in the world today is because the people invented them to pass the time and have someone to blame all their troubles on. Sorry kids, it's the way I feel.

I believe most people believe in god in one form or another for the following reasons...

1-To explain the unexplainable...science can explain many things, but people want to think there is a meaning for their lives, science cannot offer them these things.

2-Human beings, in general are lonely...wouldnt it give you a feeling of comfort to know there was an almighty watching over you and making sure nothing bad happened to you?

3-Religion is a thing of habit and society...think, if there was suddenly some major scientific development that prooved God(s) in whatever form never existed, many wars would have been fought for absolutely nothing, millions if not billions of people have died in the name of their gods, humans would not be so willing to go to war if the universal belief was that there was no afterlife, no reward for living a morale life and that once your dead thats it.

My last post didnt communicate properly, it was formed fairly poorly and not in the way to offer reasons but more blurbs of reasoning...I think it still proves what I meant but if anyone would like me to clarify I would be happy.

People believe in god so they can have someone other to blame than themselves when they screw their lives up.

Not me. At the core of my beleif is the idea that we are each responsible for our own lifes, if I make a wrong decission then it is my responsibility, if somebody else makes a descission that negatively affects me then it becomes my responsibility to sort it out for myself. This extends to helping others where possible.
As for why I beleve in God, I'm not entirely sure. I can easily comprehend a Universe that was not created by God, and in all actual fact I'm not entirely sure how God fits into the Universe.
I don't beleive in an afterlife so I'm not looking for imortallity through God.
I don't beleive there's an overall grand purpose to life, the universe, and everything but I do beleive a life can be purposefull.
I also don't beleve God pysically intervenes into our world, so I'm not looking for a quick fix through God.

So why do I beleive? I'm not sure, but I do :D

you're just fooling yourself, m'man. :)
*Tries to remain composed, fails*


READ MY FRIGGIN' SIGNATURE OR LOCATION, YOU IDIOT! I'M NOT A MAN!


WTF do I have to do to avoid the assumption that I am male? :mad:

1-To explain the unexplainable...science can explain many things, but people want to think there is a meaning for their lives, science cannot offer them these things.

2-Human beings, in general are lonely...wouldnt it give you a feeling of comfort to know there was an almighty watching over you and making sure nothing bad happened to you?

3-Religion is a thing of habit and society...think, if there was suddenly some major scientific development that prooved God(s) in whatever form never existed, many wars would have been fought for absolutely nothing, millions if not billions of people have died in the name of their gods, humans would not be so willing to go to war if the universal belief was that there was no afterlife, no reward for living a morale life and that once your dead thats it.

Thank you for your susinct explanation of why you think humanity still believes in God.

I was begining to wonder why so few people actually read my original post and responded without inflamation.

*Tries to remain composed, fails*


READ MY FRIGGIN' SIGNATURE OR LOCATION, YOU IDIOT! I'M NOT A MAN!


WTF do I have to do to avoid the assumption that I am male? :mad:

Are you sure that you're not male? I think that you're male.

People believe in "God" because I say they shouldn't, and people have a tendency to do the opposite of what I say. :D

(I mean, they didn't nuke Iraq, did they?)

Thank you for your susinct explanation of why you think humanity still believes in God.

I was begining to wonder why so few people actually read my original post and responded without inflamation.
I responded on the first page. Nobody replied to my post.

Like atheists judge us Christians? You don't know "broad stereotyping" until you hear some of the stuff atheists say about us.
If you are stating that all atheists do that, isn't that a stereotype of the same sort of which you disapprove? If you aren't, well, never mind then.

I am well aware that there are some hateful atheists. But it isn't like every atheist is the same as those who hate all Christians.

A similar case would be if I decided that I was going to disapprove of all Christians because there are some very vocal people within it who preach hate and broad stereotypes about others.
To me, neither of those make much sense.

I believe in God because God is.

I responded on the first page. Nobody replied to my post.

I'm sorry sweety. Are you feeling left out? :(

I'm sorry sweety. Are you feeling left out? :(

Whoo, don't patronise her!

Whoo, don't patronise her!

What are you? Her girlfriend? :eek: ;)

What are you? Her girlfriend? :eek: ;)

Ha, aren't you a riot.

No, but there really is no need to be so patronising towards her. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's less of a person than you. :mad:

NOTE

I see now that I have made a mistake; trying to create a civil and logical religious thread. Human nature prevails once again.

I leave this abomination to its death...

I thank all of you for your time...

/NOTE

I know he's out there because I've felt him in my life. Simple as that.

i could really care les about realigon i say fok realigon its all fake its all a bunch of BS. :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :headbang:

If you are stating that all atheists do that, isn't that a stereotype of the same sort of which you disapprove? If you aren't, well, never mind then.

I am well aware that there are some hateful atheists. But it isn't like every atheist is the same as those who hate all Christians.

A similar case would be if I decided that I was going to disapprove of all Christians because there are some very vocal people within it who preach hate and broad stereotypes about others.
To me, neither of those make much sense.

hmm, I remember reading somewhere that there are two distinct types of atheists...the more aggressive, want to trash other religions kind and then the more passive, I believe in what I believe and you believe in what you believe kind..

I have yet to meet one of us who denounces someones religion simply because they feel the need too...I think most atheists arent out to hate any other religion and might only debate anothers religion if asked too or if they felt the need to.

NOTE

I see now that I have made a mistake; trying to create a civil and logical religious thread. Human nature prevails once again.

I leave this abomination to its death...

I thank all of you for your time...

/NOTE

It is IMPOSSIBLE to create a civil and logical relgious thread - it will always end in an arguement (admittedly, it isn't normally about trying to stop someone being a patronising chauvinist, but hey) but don't beat yourself up about it. Sorry, but that's life.

Sorry if I caused the thread to become bad: not intentional.

i could really care les about realigon i say fok realigon its all fake its all a bunch of BS.

Nice first post. Next time, try to proofread your entry before posting it. You'll look more respectable and reputable.

i could really care les about realigon i say fok realigon its all fake its all a bunch of BS. :sniper: :mp5: :gundge: :headbang:
Oh yeah, you really SHOWED US. Now because of all the smilies you used, I'm more inclined to believe in your statement. Way to go, champ .

Oh yeah, you really SHOWED US. Now because of all the smilies you used, I'm more inclined to believe in your statement. Way to go, champ .

You're funny. I like you. ;)

*Tries to remain composed, fails*


READ MY FRIGGIN' SIGNATURE OR LOCATION, YOU IDIOT! I'M NOT A MAN!


WTF do I have to do to avoid the assumption that I am male? :mad:
errr maybe he meant Ma'am?

If you are stating that all atheists do that, isn't that a stereotype of the same sort of which you disapprove? If you aren't, well, never mind then.

I am well aware that there are some hateful atheists. But it isn't like every atheist is the same as those who hate all Christians.

A similar case would be if I decided that I was going to disapprove of all Christians because there are some very vocal people within it who preach hate and broad stereotypes about others.
To me, neither of those make much sense.
Whoops! I didn't know I was in the presence of the "STEREOTYPE POLICE". So you're saying there are atheists who hate religion? Well, it proves my point. I KNOW athesits who hate Christianity, so according to the people that I KNOW, it's not a stereotype. I don't know a single atheist who likes Christianity. So based on my PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, all atheists hate Christianity.

In all seriousness though, I don't hate atheists. I just hate the stereotypical ones that I know that hate Christianity. I don't think you should EVER hate someone based on their religious choices. It's really stupid.

errr maybe he meant Ma'am?
He said "m'man", which would most likely be a contraction for the words "my" and "man".

Ha, aren't you a riot.

No, but there really is no need to be so patronising towards her. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's less of a person than you. :mad:
Thank you, Little India! *Smiles.*

Why do we believe in God?

Because we want to believe. Our faith in God helps us thru hard times, and the Bible provides a simple answer to the general mysteries of life, such as "How did we get here?." Also, attending church and participating in church activities builds ones sense of community, brotherhood, and friendship. Unfortunately, religion has often been used as a tool of hate, violence, and prejudice.

Whoops! I didn't know I was in the presence of the "STEREOTYPE POLICE". So you're saying there are atheists who hate religion? Well, it proves my point. I KNOW athesits who hate Christianity, so according to the people that I KNOW, it's not a stereotype. I don't know a single atheist who likes Christianity. So based on my PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, all atheists hate Christianity.

In all seriousness though, I don't hate athesits. I just hate the stereotypical ones that I know that hate Christianity. I don't think you should EVER hate someone based on their religious choices. It's really stupid.

I really like you.

But you are wrong. Whilst I don't think that there is any basis of truth in any of Christianity's teaching, I respect Christians for having and following a religion. Not all atheists are evil church-burning arseholes you know.

Thank you, Little India! *Smiles.*

;)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to create a civil and logical relgious thread - it will always end in an arguement (admittedly, it isn't normally about trying to stop someone being a patronising chauvinist, but hey) but don't beat yourself up about it. Sorry, but that's life.

Sorry if I caused the thread to become bad: not intentional.logical religious discussions are possible as long as one side isn't screaming for proof.

Such as theological differences (the differences between Islam/Hindu/Shinto/Christianity)
Definitions on Religious Works (define and interpretations of various verses.)

and all threads can be civil.


@ Zotona... then he's blind. ;)

logical religious discussions are possible as long as one side isn't screaming for proof.

Such as theological differences (the differences between Islam/Hindu/Shinto/Christianity)
Definitions on Religious Works (define and interpretations of various verses.)

and all threads can be civil.


@ Zotona... then he's blind. ;)

Yes, but with something that is so important to a large proportion of people, it is easy for a discussion to become heated.

And to have a discussion on religion wouldn't be much of a discussion if you excluded theological differences and definitions on religious works. *Sorry*

After all, whilst this thread started off sticking to it's original description, it moved on pretty quickly.

I really like you.

But you are wrong. Whilst I don't think that there is any basis of truth in any of Christianity's teaching, I respect Christians for having and following a religion. Not all atheists are evil church-burning arseholes you know.
Yeah, I know they aren't all that bad, but my personal experiences have led me to judge atheists to be like that. I believe that we should all use our personal experiences to judge people, as a matter of fact, most of us already DO. Atheists will judge Christians based on Jerry Falwell and Christians will judge atheists based on goths and anarchists.

Ha, aren't you a riot.

No, but there really is no need to be so patronising towards her. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's less of a person than you. :mad:


That's true; she's less of a person than me because she's athiest! :eek:








Ok, now back to reality. I actually noticed after I had written my original post that she is female, but was too lazy to go back and cut the "m'man", simply because it is an abbreviation for "my man", but it's an expression that I'll use toward women as well because it's just slang. From that point on, I was just having fun pushing everyone's buttons. It was dumb, and I apologize if offense was taken.

That's true; she's less of a person than me because she's athiest! :eek:








Ok, now back to reality. I actually noticed after I had written my original post that she is female, but was too lazy to go back and cut the "m'man", simply because it is an abbreviation for "my man", but it's an expression that I'll use toward women as well because it's just slang. From that point on, I was just having fun pushing everyone's buttons. It was dumb, and I apologize if offense was taken.

Apology accepted, and hope you will accept mine. I just don't like it when people treat females differently because of what body parts they have (even though I'm a man)

That's true; she's less of a person than me because she's athiest! :eek:

Ok, now back to reality. I actually noticed after I had written my original post that she is female, but was too lazy to go back and cut the "m'man", simply because it is an abbreviation for "my man", but it's an expression that I'll use toward women as well because it's just slang. From that point on, I was just having fun pushing everyone's buttons. It was dumb, and I apologize if offense was taken.
Not really, I just get tired of being assumed male time and time again.

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!

NOTE: This is NOT a debate on intelligent design, so please do not allow it to de-evolve into that. I'm asking why you believe.
because the universe is complex you are saying that there must be a being so complex that it's uncapable for humans to believe in, just to make something as complex as is now?
also, with the huge amount of other universes(possibly infinite), one of the eventually would have had our constants making it a universe just like the one we are in.
and even if there's only one(very hard to believe) then we would only be able to realise how complex it is in a universe that is like this, which is very rare, but most of the time it might not of happen and nothing would be able to realise how rare it was in that time.
and even though it's rare, there still is the chance that it would happen. anything that could happen is rare, so no matter what would have happened, the outcome would have been rare, even if it's just a universe without life but somehow strange matter took over and proscesses similiar to fire happened (something with an effect, not proscess) all over or something. it would still be immensly complex. life isn't any different to any other chemical reaction.

Whoops! I didn't know I was in the presence of the "STEREOTYPE POLICE". So you're saying there are atheists who hate religion? Well, it proves my point. I KNOW athesits who hate Christianity, so according to the people that I KNOW, it's not a stereotype. I don't know a single atheist who likes Christianity. So based on my PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, all atheists hate Christianity.

In all seriousness though, I don't hate atheists. I just hate the stereotypical ones that I know that hate Christianity. I don't think you should EVER hate someone based on their religious choices. It's really stupid.

I am an atheist, I dont "like" christianity but then again I dont hate it.

There you go, I just blew your mind huh?

Not really, I just get tired of being assumed male time and time again.

Zotona
Forum Boredom




Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: FEMALE; USA
Posts: 1,964

you probably shouldn't have done that then

In response to the original post . . .

Humans believe in God because for most, it seems natural. We've always believed in some sort of higher being.

Religion makes most people's lives happier and easier. At least according to the following source, and thousands of others if you take the time to google it.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=435412&page=1

The best thing is is that it doesn't matter which religion you belong to.

because the universe is complex you are saying that there must be a being so complex that it's uncapable for humans to believe in, just to make something as complex as is now?
also, with the huge amount of other universes(possibly infinite), one of the eventually would have had our constants making it a universe just like the one we are in.
and even if there's only one(very hard to believe) then we would only be able to realise how complex it is in a universe that is like this, which is very rare, but most of the time it might not of happen and nothing would be able to realise how rare it was in that time.
That's all fine and good, but there IS only one universe. Hence the term UNIverse. Uni meaning singular or one. There are 2nd and 4th dimensions, and that's pretty much it as far as parallels go. Think about it, the universe is infinite. There can only be ONE infinity. You can't fit other infinities in one infinity that is already occupied by another infinity. The universe is never ending, and therefore you only need one to take up all available space.

you probably shouldn't have done that then
:rolleyes: I can't even word my frustration right now.

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!

NOTE: This is NOT a debate on intelligent design, so please do not allow it to de-evolve into that. I'm asking why you believe.

I believe in God for many of the reasons you mentioned, however, I also believe in God on the basis of seeing His interaction with humanity, that while not scientifically verifyible, has been very real in my personal experience. Of course the foundation of my faith is still scripture.

That's all fine and good, but there IS only one universe. Hence the term UNIverse. Uni meaning singular or one. There are 2nd and 4th dimensions, and that's pretty much it as far as parallels go.

It's never been proved, either way, that there is more than one universe. Don't forget that only a few centuries ago we thought the world was flat and that the solar system revolved around us.

But how does the quantity of universes alter whether or not God exists?? :confused:

"I believe that there is probably a God out there although I don't believe in the 'fate' crap. She probably created the universe and set it in motion so that things play out on it's own without much interference."

Whoa hold up, she?

It's never been proved, either way, that there is more than one universe. Don't forget that only a few centuries ago we thought the world was flat and that the solar system revolved around us.

But how does the quantity of universes alter whether or not God exists?? :confused:
My point is that the universe, being infinite, uses up all available space. There can only be one infinity.

"I believe that there is probably a God out there although I don't believe in the 'fate' crap. She probably created the universe and set it in motion so that things play out on it's own without much interference."

Whoa hold up, she?
That's right! If there is one single omnipotent being, she has to be female. :p

"I believe that there is probably a God out there although I don't believe in the 'fate' crap. She probably created the universe and set it in motion so that things play out on it's own without much interference."

Whoa hold up, she?

Some people believe that the Supreme Being is female, not male. For example, in Wiccan Worship, whilst there are both a God and a Goddess, the God could not exist without the Goddess, as it was her that gave birth to him. Equally, the universe could not exist without the God, as he created it.
It's quite complicated, as the God impregnates the Goddess, dies, She gives birth to a new God, and it continues in one long cycle.

Is there ever the possiblity that there just IS A GOD, or is that not a valid answer? Every time is say there is one, people ask me why I think so, I just do. I don't need reasons for everything I think. There isn't a reason for everything. Some things just are. It's hard to be a Christian these days when everywhere you turn there's some atheist missionary trying to convert you, but I am and I don't give a flying fuck what anyone says.

A Christian complaining about missionaries, that's rich. People of all religions should be glad to have others around who will question them and test their faith.

Of course the possiblity of God exists. But isn't it also possible that we evolved from single celled organisms or that aliens created us from clones, or that this is all just a figment of your imagination. If there is no reason to believe that something exists then I don't. It's that simple. The idea that you would go out of your way to believe in something when there is no evidence to support it baffles me. You said you don't need a reason for everything. What else do you believe in when there is no reason to do so?

Atheists will judge Christians based on Jerry Falwell and Christians will judge atheists based on goths and anarchists.

I know Christian Goths and I am a Christian Anarchist. Let's not be so quick on this.

I know Christian Goths and I am a Christian Anarchist. Let's not be so quick on this.
F'real.

A Christian complaining about missionaries, that's rich. People of all religions should be glad to have others around who will question them and test their faith.

Of course the possiblity of God exists. But isn't it also possible that we evolved from single celled organisms or that aliens created us from clones, or that this is all just a figment of your imagination. If there is no reason to believe that something exists then I don't. It's that simple. The idea that you would go out of your way to believe in something when there is no evidence to support it baffles me. You said you don't need a reason for everything. What else do you believe in when there is no reason to do so?
Trees. I don't HAVE to believe in trees. I could believe air is made by water fairies or some other nonsense, but I just feel like believing trees make air. There's no reason to believe that they are real, I could just as easily say there is no tree and there wouldn't be any trees as far as I'm concerned. It's like in the Matrix with the spoon, if he believes that the spoon is there, it is, but if he doesn't, it is not. Why would he care if the spoon existed? Because he feels like it.

An interesting thought has crossed my mind recently. Our studies of early man have shown that ever since we first began to congregate together, to begin to create the foundations of society, we have put faith in things beyond our control in the hands of higher beings, "gods" if you will. As our societies evolved however, so did our understanding of the world around us. Through many centuries and great strife, it would seem that humanity now had diffiniative explanations of why the world acts the way it does.

The question is, if we now understand our world, that it is merely another part of the universe, why believe in God? Would it not be logical to abandon these now-outdated ideals for proven fact?

The answer is not as easy as it seems...

I believe in God...through science. Physics, chemistry, genetics...they are all His tools. I've done research on our universe (a practice in futility I might add), and have learned that our little Earth is not even a speck in the grand scheme of things. The universe is, quite possibly, infinite. I cannot believe that something that is so perfect as a universe, with countless stars and planets, wonders beyond imagination, could've been...a mistake. Something so ordered as this needs something, a higher inteligence, beyond even our universe, something beyond our plane of existence. Something so vast needed a creative mind to bring it to life.

I know why I believe in God...But why do you? If you do not, why do you think others do?

Thank you!

NOTE: This is NOT a debate on intelligent design, so please do not allow it to de-evolve into that. I'm asking why you believe.


Religion is a meme; a piece of information that, like genes, uses humans (life, organisms whatever) to replicate itself.

Genes are information that are 'written' in DNA and which code for and hence cause their own replication and hence continuation, we are (in a Dawkins-esque fashion) simply the products of the genes and their vehicles for reproduction of themselves.

Religion is information that, in a similar way, is passed from generation to generation by humans - not biologically but through speech, tradition, culture, writing etc. It is perfectly suited to this, because there is nothing people would like more than to believe that there is someone out there looking out for them and who has created them and who loves them, and that their life is not meaningless. Religion is thus a highly successful meme that will never die, will probably never be out-competed by science and which has evolved independently in every known culture in the same way that the 'camera eye' has evolved at least six times in seperate families of animals: simply because it is a brilliant design for sight that survives well because it works.

It's all about information replicating itself. That's all life is in the end, information fighting entropy by reproducing itself. This is really a fascinating subject...

Some people believe that the Supreme Being is female, not male. For example, in Wiccan Worship, whilst there are both a God and a Goddess, the God could not exist without the Goddess, as it was her that gave birth to him. Equally, the universe could not exist without the God, as he created it.
It's quite complicated, as the God impregnates the Goddess, dies, She gives birth to a new God, and it continues in one long cycle.

*Hmm, quoting myself. Is this the onset of a mental problem?*

The one thing you have to ask yourself, if you believe in a Supreme Being, is: Why is it so difficult to believe that that Being is female? Since the very beginnings of religion, the Deity has been male, except in Wiccan worship, where both sexes hold equal rank.
But if you are a religious person, you have always known it to be a GOD. Catholicism doesn't allow the ordination of female priests

*Have they approved that yet?*

and in most religions, females are shunned. Why? Because - and this I read somewhere, this is not entirely my view - the male world - which was, when many religions began, the dominant sex - saw the power of females and tried to conceal it with a male deity.

However, it should be noted that all men and women are EQUALS, and are to be treated as such. Remember that life cannot exist without one of each.

*Hmm, quoting myself. Is this the onset of a mental problem?*

The one thing you have to ask yourself, if you believe in a Supreme Being, is: Why is it so difficult to believe that that Being is female? Since the very beginnings of religion, the Deity has been male, except in Wiccan worship, where both sexes hold equal rank.
But if you are a religious person, you have always known it to be a GOD. Catholicism doesn't allow the ordination of female priests

*Have they approved that yet?*

and in most religions, females are shunned. Why? Because - and this I read somewhere, this is not entirely my view - the male world - which was, when many religions began, the dominant sex - saw the power of females and tried to conceal it with a male deity.

However, it should be noted that all men and women are EQUALS, and are to be treated as such. Remember that life cannot exist without one of each.


But... if it's a supreme being, why does it have to be either male or female? Surely it's non-human, non-mammalian, and hence sexless? I would have thought so anyway...

But... if it's a supreme being, why does it have to be either male or female? Surely it's non-human, non-mammalian, and hence sexless? I would have thought so anyway...
Lizards have sexes. It could be a lizard.

But... if it's a supreme being, why does it have to be either male or female? Surely it's non-human, non-mammalian, and hence sexless? I would have thought so anyway...
Simply put, it depends on each individual's religion/spiritual beliefs rather or not a god is male/female.

Simply put, it depends on each individual's religion/spiritual beliefs rather or not a god is male/female.

Took the words right out of my mouth: it depends on the individual's personal spiritual beliefs.

Brava ;)

Lizards have sexes. It could be a lizard.

Sorry, confused again. Please explain.

I'm an atheist (of the non-Christian-hating variety), and my reason is quite simple: Occam's razor, i.e. believing the simplest explanation for any phenomenon that fits with the information given.

In the case of God: either there's a highly complex world out there, that we don't fully understand, that we don't know where it came from and for which we don't see a point - OR there's a highly complex world out there, that we don't fully understand, that we don't know where it came from and for which we don't see a point PLUS a highly complex God figure that we don't fully understand, that we don't know where it came from and for which we don't see a point. Why add the extra complexity? I only believe what I see reason to believe.

Go on, shoot me down.

Trees. I don't HAVE to believe in trees. I could believe air is made by water fairies or some other nonsense, but I just feel like believing trees make air. There's no reason to believe that they are real, I could just as easily say there is no tree and there wouldn't be any trees as far as I'm concerned. It's like in the Matrix with the spoon, if he believes that the spoon is there, it is, but if he doesn't, it is not. Why would he care if the spoon existed? Because he feels like it.

Of course you dont HAVE to believe in trees. But you can see trees and touch them, and if you wanted to you could even hug them. These are reasons to believe in their existence. In fact if you tried to not believe in the existence of trees I bet you would have a real hard time doing it.

There are things that might not exist that still have reasons to believe that they do. A lot of people would say God is one of those things. I personally can't think of a good reason to believe God exists, so I don't believe he does. Maybe when people ask you why you believe in God they are actually hoping for an answer that might improve their understanding of the subject.

Anyway, I'm going now.

Back tomorrow.

Sorry, confused again. Please explain.


I wrongly implied that only mammals have sexes. Lizards are reptiles and have sexes.

I wrongly implied that only mammals have sexes. Lizards are reptiles and have sexes.

Oh, right, I understand now. Thanks for clearing that one up.

The one thing you have to ask yourself, if you believe in a Supreme Being, is: Why is it so difficult to believe that that Being is female? Since the very beginnings of religion, the Deity has been male, except in Wiccan worship, where both sexes hold equal rank.
But if you are a religious person, you have always known it to be a GOD. Catholicism doesn't allow the ordination of female priests

However, it should be noted that all men and women are EQUALS, and are to be treated as such. Remember that life cannot exist without one of each.

Hinduism is the worlds oldest existing religion and its main God (Brahman) is gender neutral. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

That's right! If there is one single omnipotent being, she has to be female.

That's right! Because only a female could screw things up like it is now. I forgot what comic that was. :p

I am what could be considered an Atheist, but im not so sure, I absolutely dont believe in a god, devil or anything else higher planer. Definition of Atheist and Agnostic both lead towards being open to the idea of a god. Can someone help me out with whatever the definition is for someone who doesn't even consider it to be possible?

I dont know how to put this into words as to why i dont believe in god, I was born into a (debatable nowadays) Christian nation England, i grew up watching christians, sheikh's, muslims, jews all religious folk living their lives and talking about their belief's and it never clicked with me. I view it as a kind of ancient almost tradition that humans have not been able to shake away.

Im 22 years old, i know alot will say im too young to really comment, or i will be stereotyped into the category of "Young Atheist head full of science blah blah" but i have never once felt anything divine, ive never wondered about Heaven and Hell.. ive lived my life, I have fallen in love, ive hated, ive felt everything that emotions can provide but never attributed it to anything other than chemical reactions in my body.

If someone came up to me and absolutely proved to me god existed, showed me concrete evidence.. i still dont think i would have faith.. or believe.. i would just know he exists. ok cool, get on with it, another fact of life