NationStates Jolt Archive

Will the chinese army grow over and get bigger than the us army? as its geting closer to doing so!

Do you think so? I do. i messed this up, sorry! so if you want to vote a poll will be in the forums shortly!

:(
Do you think the chinese army will grow over the us army? I do!

Yes..i hope so..as long as they continue the same political path they are going..which is more humane and kinder to its people....and less communist..oh and as long as they maintain a good relationship with britain...:desperate smile:

well being irish I dont care! It will tell the americans they are not the strongest and it will get them to think they cant rule the world and enter any country like they do to ireland!

well being irish I dont care! It will tell the americans they are not the strongest and it will get them to think they cant rule the world and enter any country like they do to ireland!

americans do that?...

well being irish I dont care! It will tell the americans they are not the strongest and it will get them to think they cant rule the world and enter any country like they do to ireland!
:rolleyes:

Yes. Great justification. Though you should know that your only talking about the stupid among us Americans that don't even know that China's becoming stronger...or even care. So your arguing with a wall, pretty much.

Americans just push the Irish gov out of the way and abuse them! Taking what they want when ever they want it! It started with bush! just landing their army planes and demanding Petrol! Our P.M. is worse than blair when it comes to that!

Americans just push the Irish gov out of the way and abuse them! Taking what they want when ever they want it! It started with bush! just landing their army planes and demanding Petrol! Our P.M. is worse than blair when it comes to that!

oh...i didnt know that....

Big doesn't equal powerful. Saddam had the sixth largest military in the world, but it totally fell apart when attacked by superior quality technology. As long as the US can keep a technological and quality advantage over China, their military will never be more powerful. Bigger, perhaps, but neither more effective nor powerful.

In sheer numbers definatly, with their population the U.S. couldn't possibly hope to match their size. China is also progressing at a faster rate in technology, I think within the next decade or so there will be a very nasty stand off between the two. On a side note, I live in America and keep a reasonably close eye on the news, but I had no idea we invaded Ireland.

uh... do you mena 'better' cause righ now Chinas army IS bigger than the U.S. army, and their equipment is slowly catching up to America's. The next generation Chinese fighter will easily match the F/A-22 and depending on which of the next generation tank designs they o with the M1 Abrams place at the top is in serious jeopardy. China already has missiles easily capable of destroying U.S. mainstay of power, the Carrier. So as it stands, China's military is Bigger than AMerica's and in a few years they'll be better equipped too. Its only training that sets us apart now.

Big doesn't equal powerful. Saddam had the sixth largest military in the world, but it totally fell apart when attacked by superior quality technology. As long as the US can keep a technological and quality advantage over China, their military will never be more powerful. Bigger, perhaps, but neither more effective nor powerful.

yees...with any luck china will progress to fast...

China's military is getting smaller

http://www.iwar.org.uk/news-archive/2003/09-01.htm

"Former President Jiang Zemin, who heads China's Central Military Commission, announced the government plans to cut 200,000 troops from its force by the end the year 2005. That is in addition to a reduction of a half-million troops announced earlier this year. The newest cuts would bring the number of Chinese troop force below two million."

They are trying to make it more like the US military.. with better technology and less men.. but it is doubtful they'll reach that.

I would rather have a smaller, more advanced military with well trained trops.. then one that is huge with a bunch of poorly trained conscripts.

And besides, China is our economic partner. They attack us, they get ruined.

Americans just push the Irish gov out of the way and abuse them! Taking what they want when ever they want it! It started with bush! just landing their army planes and demanding Petrol! Our P.M. is worse than blair when it comes to that!


Excuse me? I am fairly up to date on world affairs but apparently I missed to pretty big news items
1. Ireland finding petrol in their country and
2. America invading Ireland.

now, interestingly whe applied to the nation of IRAQ your accusations make a wee tad more sense, but keep in mind that Iraq was ruled by an egotistical psychotic maniac dictator, Ireland on the other hand is ruled by Britain.

America invadeing ireland? I never said that!! I said america abuses us! uses us! our goverment!!

Americans just push the Irish gov out of the way and abuse them! Taking what they want when ever they want it! It started with bush! just landing their army planes and demanding Petrol! Our P.M. is worse than blair when it comes to that!
Meh, if it's not the English, it's gonna be the US or the Chinese. The countries that don't hold the stick get the short end.

, Ireland on the other hand is ruled by Britain.

And long may it continue :D ........ >.><.< ah.......um.. >.> <.< *scarpers*

English, .

Britain..
You mena Britain...England is not Britain...nor vise versa

Ireland is not ruled by britan! I think mr current affairs! your mixing ireland up with Norther Ireland!!

Britain..
You mena Britain...England is not Britain...nor vise versa
But it was England that originally occupied Ireland. Unification came later. If I remember correctly.

maybe I have but at least I never claimed that it was invaded by bloody americans for bloody petrol.

uh... do you mena 'better' cause righ now Chinas army IS bigger than the U.S. army, and their equipment is slowly catching up to America's. The next generation Chinese fighter will easily match the F/A-22 and depending on which of the next generation tank designs they o with the M1 Abrams place at the top is in serious jeopardy. China already has missiles easily capable of destroying U.S. mainstay of power, the Carrier. So as it stands, China's military is Bigger than AMerica's and in a few years they'll be better equipped too. Its only training that sets us apart now.

Precisely my point: As of 2000, the total active duty personnel of the People's Republic of China was 2,470,000, whereas the total active duty personnel for the United States as of 2000 was 1,365,800.
However, the US army is much better equipped than the Chinese army.

But when you think about it, the size of the military is proportional to the population of the country. China has a population (2001) of over 1 and a quarter billion, whereas the US has a population of just over a quarter of a billion. The US has a larger proportion of it's population in the military than China, but China has the bigger army.

Invaded? got you have lost your mind!!

The US refuels some aircraft and it's Black '47 all over again. Please, if you want to be mad at the US, be mad for something real like Irish-Americans funneling arms and money to the IRA. You have no friggin perspective! There are more people of Irish heritage in South Boston than Dublin. Get off the cross Mary ...we need the wood.


Americans just push the Irish gov out of the way and abuse them! Taking what they want when ever they want it! It started with bush! just landing their army planes and demanding Petrol! Our P.M. is worse than blair when it comes to that!

But it was England that originally occupied Ireland. Unification came later. If I remember correctly.

Maybe so, but to refer to us all as "English" is strictly speaking incorrect. I personally am English, but not all Britons are. And the Crowns of the British Isles are linked and unified, and as such the nation is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, NOT England, and to refer to it as such is wrong. England does not have dominance over any of the British Kingdoms, despite beign the largest. Thinking about it logically, Scotland is the "home" nation, if you will, as the Queen is descended from the Scottish Kings, NOT the English ones.

*Sorry, had to put that across.*

well being irish I dont care! It will tell the americans they are not the strongest and it will get them to think they cant rule the world and enter any country like they do to ireland!
We've occupied Ireland?

The US refuels some aircraft and it's Black '47 all over again. Please, if you want to be mad at the US, be mad for something real like Irish-Americans funneling arms and money to the IRA. You have no friggin perspective! There are more people of Irish heritage in South Boston than Dublin. Get off the cross Mary ...we need the wood.

Please, do you not read the news?
The IRA has said that it will be dumping all weapons, and is ending it's armed attempts to try and get what they want: they have resolved to use peaceful and diplomatic means to achieve democracy and their other goals.

America invadeing ireland? I never said that!! I said america abuses us! uses us! our goverment!!
Really? Have we threatened or otherwise coerced you? We're only taking what you're willing to give us.

How did this discussion go from, whether China can overtake the US militarily eventually...to the US attacking Ireland?!?!?

In either case, the US, unlike the Roman Empire, will stay intact, and will most likely absorb Canada over the next century, making it the biggest country in the world...with a bitchload of resources.

There is no doubt that China, will eventually become a great power...but as of now, USA, is the one SuperPower.

Although Russia is itching back for it's spot...which it can get, with enough reforms, like China. =)

Maybe so, but to refer to us all as "English" is strictly speaking incorrect. I personally am English, but not all Britons are. And the Crowns of the British Isles are linked and unified, and as such the nation is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, NOT England, and to refer to it as such is wrong. England does not have dominance over any of the British Kingdoms, despite beign the largest. Thinking about it logically, Scotland is the "home" nation, if you will, as the Queen is descended from the Scottish Kings, NOT the English ones.
:rolleyes: Dammit, people! Will you stop to read what I wrote? When did I refer to the British as English? My point was that at one time England (yes, England, because there was no UK yet) had the military power and occupied Ireland. Feel free to refute me if this is wrong.

Then, later, the US has the military power and they will do with Ireland as they please (if they think they should).

If tomorrow it's China that has the military power and feel they want to do something about Ireland, they will do it too.

And if Uganda comes after that, they will also abuse Ireland.

Understood now?

Now, if you can stop calling the US people Americans, then we'll be fine.

How did this discussion go from, whether China can overtake the US militarily eventually...to the US attacking Ireland?!?!?

In either case, the US, unlike the Roman Empire, will stay intact, and will most likely absorb Canada over the next century, making it the biggest country in the world...with a bitchload of resources.

There is no doubt that China, will eventually become a great power...but as of now, USA, is the one SuperPower.

Although Russia is itching back for it's spot...which it can get, with enough reforms, like China. =)
How the hell are we going to absorb Canada? They don't want to be US citizens, and we don't want to fight against an insurgency right on our northern border.

I never said invade!!!!! they take advantage of us!

Yeah, I think China already has more manpower in their military...its a matter of technology though. Besides, the US has nothing to fear from China, if they attacked us it would bring about the collapse of their economy.

As for this US invading Ireland thing...this is the first I have heard of it, I might believe we have secretly begun operations in the DPRK or Iran but not Ireland.

You need a subscription to Jane's there is nothing even close to the Raptor as an air superiority fighter, don't me wrong the Russians make some damn fine aircraft but even the vaunted MiG-35 (39 or 1.42) could really beat it. The Chinese Q-5 is no better then the venerable F-15. The type-90 tank is a joke still using steel armour while western tanks are using a 2nd generation chobham armor. (it's a toss up between the Challanger, M-1 and Leo 2 as for who's best if one is a "10" the others are 9.99 and 9.98.)
There are units in the PLA still issued bolt action rifles and the bulk of it's air force are outdated MiG copies. You also mentioned the threat to US carrier battle groups there is almost none from the Chinese as none of ther missles has near enough the range to pose a true threat, even the range on the much dreaded sunburn and super sunburn missles is vast less than carrier based in flight refueled strike aircraft.

uh... do you mena 'better' cause righ now Chinas army IS bigger than the U.S. army, and their equipment is slowly catching up to America's. The next generation Chinese fighter will easily match the F/A-22 and depending on which of the next generation tank designs they o with the M1 Abrams place at the top is in serious jeopardy. China already has missiles easily capable of destroying U.S. mainstay of power, the Carrier. So as it stands, China's military is Bigger than AMerica's and in a few years they'll be better equipped too. Its only training that sets us apart now.

How did this discussion go from, whether China can overtake the US militarily eventually...to the US attacking Ireland?!?!?

In either case, the US, unlike the Roman Empire, will stay intact, and will most likely absorb Canada over the next century, making it the biggest country in the world...with a bitchload of resources.

There is no doubt that China, will eventually become a great power...but as of now, USA, is the one SuperPower.

Although Russia is itching back for it's spot...which it can get, with enough reforms, like China. =)

Sorry to burst this nice little bubble you have in your head, deary, but even if the US did absorb Canada - which, by the way, it will never do - it still wouldn't be the largest country on the planet. Russia is the largest country on Earth, and unless the US decides to "absorb" - as you so wonderfully put it - Canada and most - if not all, and more - of South America, it will never be the biggest country on Earth.
And the US the world's only superpower? HELLO!
We may have a crappy PM, but Britain is still one of the richest nations on the planet, and holds sway over many foreign countries, as well as holding many dependencies. And we also have an amazing military: maybe not as strong in manpower as America's, but parts of it *cough SAS cough* are much better equipped than America's factions.
Also, think of all the other G8 nations: GB, Italy, France, Germany, RUSSIA, (USA) Canada and Japan. They are also EXCEEDINGLY wealthy.

To say that the US is the world's only superpower is not only ludicrous, it is also pig-headed, arrogant - if you are American, which I imagine you are - and is a completely uninformed opinion. Many nations idolise the US yes, but only because of her wealth, her democratic system and her supposed political freedoms. But remember, being the subject of admiration does not make you a superpower.

And just by the by, where does this whole "absorption of Canada" idea come from? Yes, there are some factions in Canada that wish for independence, but that doesn't mean that the US can exploit the political weakness and take Canada over, does it?

How the hell are we going to absorb Canada? They don't want to be US citizens, and we don't want to fight against an insurgency right on our northern border.

PRECISELY. Someone with an ounce of sense.

I never said invade!!!!! they take advantage of us!
You see what you started? It was only your run of the mill bullying until you brought this thread up. Now, the US is going to invade Ireland and it's all your fault.

I hope you're happy.

You see what you started? It was only your run of the mill bullying until you brought this thread up. Now, the US is going to invade Ireland and it's all your fault.

I hope you're happy.

You're funny, I like you. ;)

LoL very funny! I will get the irish army with their sticks ready to defend!

How did this discussion go from, whether China can overtake the US militarily eventually...to the US attacking Ireland?!?!?

In either case, the US, unlike the Roman Empire, will stay intact, and will most likely absorb Canada over the next century, making it the biggest country in the world...with a bitchload of resources.

There is no doubt that China, will eventually become a great power...but as of now, USA, is the one SuperPower.

Although Russia is itching back for it's spot...which it can get, with enough reforms, like China. =)

Nothing lasts forever, the one true fact in life is that everything ends. So too will the United States at some point.

Why would the United States "absorb" Canada? There is from what I hear no movement in Canada calling for the US to "absorb" it, any Canadians that want to be a US citizen can probably do so fairly easily and invading Canada would have cause American hatred on a massive global scale, it would prove once and for all that this isnt the country it used to be.

Russia is in poor shape, from what I hear the Russian mafia has taken a stranglehold on the nation, even selling off old Cold War era armaments as they feel because the Russian government cannot stop them.

China is a whole different story though, I hope it does become a world superpower for the simple reason that any US president will not be able to enter office with his own psychotic plans and execute them unchecked *COUGHBUSHCOUGHCOUGH*.

In either case, the US, unlike the Roman Empire, will stay intact...

How can you possibly tell? It is unlikely that any of today's nations will remain intact until the ending of the world: even now, some countries are splitting up: not last my own: the Scots and the Welsh and the Northern Irish want independence. And of course, NOTHING is permanent. Why are there seasons? (I know because of the world's revolution and orbit, but for the purpose of my point!) Because nothing lasts forever, and the US won't either. The US is just as liely to break up as all the others. In fact, because of it's size, and the location of it's capital - this is using official research into civilisations and the contention of citizens, this isn't something I've made up - the US is more liely to split into several pieces. The US is a big country, and it's capital isn't anywhere near it's centre, so it's more likely to have a great big chunk of the Western states break off into either one big country or several smaller ones.
And also, the US was never the one big mass that it is now, and it has only held it's present form since the '50's. If it never started off as one nation, then surely it was never meant to be that way?

How the hell are we going to absorb Canada? They don't want to be US citizens, and we don't want to fight against an insurgency right on our northern border.

You don't live in Canada now do you? Canadians would love to be part of the US, it's just that they hate Bush. They hate republicans as well....but it's mostly displaced anger from what i can tell.

Sorry to burst this nice little bubble you have in your head, deary, but even if the US did absorb Canada - which, by the way, it will never do - it still wouldn't be the largest country on the planet. Russia is the largest country on Earth, and unless the US decides to "absorb" - as you so wonderfully put it - Canada and most - if not all, and more - of South America, it will never be the biggest country on Earth.

Canada and the US combined are bigger then Russia..... Their approximiate territory would be 2.5 million km more then Russia.

And the US the world's only superpower? HELLO!
We may have a crappy PM, but Britain is still one of the richest nations on the planet, and holds sway over many foreign countries, as well as holding many dependencies.
Also, think of all the other G8 nations: GB, Italy, France, Germany, RUSSIA, (USA) Canada and Japan. They are also EXCEEDINGLY wealthy.

Economic Power does not mean SuperPower....the US has the worlds best military, and has the worlds biggest GDP. Thus they are the only Superpower.

To say that the US is the world's only superpower is not only ludicrous, it is also pig-headed, arrogant - if you are American, which I imagine you are - and is a completely uninformed opinion. Many nations idolise the US yes, but only because of her wealth, her democratic system and her supposed political freedoms. But remember, being the subject of admiration does not make you a superpower.

Tough luck, they are the only Superpower as of the moment so deal with it. And i am a full blooded Canadian. Toronto Native.

from Wiki "A superpower is a state with the ability to influence events or project power on a global scale. In modern terms, this may imply an entity with a huge economy, a large population, and strong armed forces, including air and space power and a considerable arsenal of weapons of mass destruction." Other then U.S., are there any other countries, that follow this criteria? thought not.

And just by the by, where does this whole "absorption of Canada" idea come from? Yes, there are some factions in Canada that wish for independence, but that doesn't mean that the US can exploit the political weakness and take Canada over, does it?

Ummm, the fact that Canada does want to be absorbed...plus politics will have some part. If Quebec ever got it's wish to seperate, Newfoundland and Alberta will soon follow, Then the rest will fall into place. But Quebec probably will never seperate, nonetheless Canadians do want to unify.

Nothing lasts forever, the one true fact in life is that everything ends. So too will the United States at some point.

Americans speak the same language, have same culture and same ideology, plus they are democratic...unless they get invaded and seperated, they will never divide willingly.

Why would the United States "absorb" Canada? There is from what I hear no movement in Canada calling for the US to "absorb" it, any Canadians that want to be a US citizen can probably do so fairly easily and invading Canada would have cause American hatred on a massive global scale, it would prove once and for all that this isnt the country it used to be.

As said before, there have been talks, that people would love to be part of it.

Russia is in poor shape, from what I hear the Russian mafia has taken a stranglehold on the nation, even selling off old Cold War era armaments as they feel because the Russian government cannot stop them.

I'm not so concerned about Russia, eventually they will get rid of their corruption problem, if they actually try.

China is a whole different story though, I hope it does become a world superpower for the simple reason that any US president will not be able to enter office with his own psychotic plans and execute them unchecked *COUGHBUSHCOUGHCOUGH*.

Yes, the great moronic Bush, who freed Iraq and is eliminating terrorism.



Anywho, i must be off......as always msg me, if you actually want to attempt to debate with me over this matter.

I've heard that before ....we'll see. They should be retrained so we could have the IRA vs Al Queade.


Please, do you not read the news?
The IRA has said that it will be dumping all weapons, and is ending it's armed attempts to try and get what they want: they have resolved to use peaceful and diplomatic means to achieve democracy and their other goals.

Maybe so, but to refer to us all as "English" is strictly speaking incorrect. I personally am English, but not all Britons are. And the Crowns of the British Isles are linked and unified, and as such the nation is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, NOT England, and to refer to it as such is wrong. England does not have dominance over any of the British Kingdoms, despite beign the largest. Thinking about it logically, Scotland is the "home" nation, if you will, as the Queen is descended from the Scottish Kings, NOT the English ones.

*Sorry, had to put that across.*

I didn't know that !!

We rule Britain then LooL

Seriously though no one actually rules over anyone as history shows we all stood our own ground way back before the romans but thats the past !



the Scots and the Welsh and the Northern Irish want independence

Most of the people I know would rather not split up from the island but be as a whole unit !

It's just a few crazy people ( no offence ) who want independance !


If China's army is growing bigger it looks like they are worried about something or preparing for something ??

Or maybe just want to be the greatest power ?

MuhOre->

Omg, you a canadian that has actually said all that!?! Wow, I am amazed...

Look guys, as he said, the USA is the only super power aloft right now. The UK is a global power, and a GREAT friend of the US ( A lot of US citizins hold the UK in very high esteem, but I don't know if the vice-versus is true.) but their economy and military isnt near equivalent of ours. (Even the SAS, who are damn fine, but we still have something just as good.. IE SEALS)

I'm not sure were I heard this but it was somehting like, the US spends more then the next 4 countrys down the line, combined, just for the military

That very grammaticaly incorrect statement proves that we are prob the only military super power :)

You don't live in Canada now do you? Canadians would love to be part of the US, it's just that they hate Bush. They hate republicans as well....but it's mostly displaced anger from what i can tell.



Canada and the US combined are bigger then Russia..... Their approximiate territory would be 2.5 million km more then Russia.



Economic Power does not mean SuperPower....the US has the worlds best military, and has the worlds biggest GDP. Thus they are the only Superpower.



Tough luck, they are the only Superpower as of the moment so deal with it. And i am a full blooded Canadian. Toronto Native.

from Wiki "A superpower is a state with the ability to influence events or project power on a global scale. In modern terms, this may imply an entity with a huge economy, a large population, and strong armed forces, including air and space power and a considerable arsenal of weapons of mass destruction." Other then U.S., are there any other countries, that follow this criteria? thought not.



Ummm, the fact that Canada does want to be absorbed...plus politics will have some part. If Quebec ever got it's wish to seperate, Newfoundland and Alberta will soon follow, Then the rest will fall into place. But Quebec probably will never seperate, nonetheless Canadians do want to unify.


Americans speak the same language, have same culture and same ideology, plus they are democratic...unless they get invaded and seperated, they will never divide willingly.



As said before, there have been talks, that people would love to be part of it.



I'm not so concerned about Russia, eventually they will get rid of their corruption problem, if they actually try.



Yes, the great moronic Bush, who freed Iraq and is eliminating terrorism.



Anywho, i must be off......as always msg me, if you actually want to attempt to debate with me over this matter.

Just because YOU personally want to be absorbed into the US doesn't mean that every other "full blooded, Toronto Native Canadian" does. I have family in Canada - a very distant branch that are descended from some of my family that were some of the first British emigrants - that DETEST the thought of being made to be American. And if you want to be American, why don't you go and live there and become a US citizen?
And the fact that the US speaks all one language doesn't mean that it won't split up. Canada speaks two languages: English and French-Canadian. Why does that mean it will split up? Many countries have more than one official language: Luxembourg uses Luxembourgian, French and German, and they show no signs of civil war, do they? No, thought not.

And yes there are countries that follow the Wikipedia superpower criteria: firstly, most of the G8 nations - why else would they all gang together??? - and many other wealthy nations. Just because the US has the largest GNP, and the largest - notably FAILING - space program doesn't mean it is the only superpower.

Misinformation on the size thing, sorry about that.

And "Canadians hate Republicans." Sorry, isn't the US a republic? Ooh, must have overlooked that one, mustn't you.

And the stuff about the Americans all having the same culture and ideology. WHAT? The US is one hell of a diverse nation, my friend. There are, as someone said earlier, more Irish in South Boston than in Dublin. There are also huge numbers of people of European descent. Thinking about it logically, the only people that can really call themselves US natives are the descendants of Native Americans - sometimes referred to by the rather derogatory term "red indians" (note that only 0.7% of US citizens are of American Indian and Inuit race combined, leaving 99.3% of US citizens that are the descendants of immigrants, or are immigrants themselves.) - and the people that are not descended from that culture are British and European: French, Spanish, Dutch. Most cities in Eastern America were founded by British, French or Dutch settlers. And also, think about the spread of religion. I never knew that Utah had seceded from the US. Because last time I looked, Utah was virtually unique - culturally - in all the US for having such a high concentration of followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Protestantism in the South East, Roman Catholicism around the borders. Mormons in Utah. And then mingled Protestantism and Catholicism predominance everywhere else. The US is immensely diverse. Saying the US is united by culture is like saying that Britain is united under Parliament. Both statements are quite untrue.
And, of course, with religious differences, come differences in ideology. Different religious groups and different races have different ideals and goals in life.

*Sorry about this, I sometimes have a lot to say.*

You don't live in Canada now do you? Canadians would love to be part of the US, it's just that they hate Bush. They hate republicans as well....but it's mostly displaced anger from what i can tell.



Canada and the US combined are bigger then Russia..... Their approximiate territory would be 2.5 million km more then Russia.



Economic Power does not mean SuperPower....the US has the worlds best military, and has the worlds biggest GDP. Thus they are the only Superpower.



Tough luck, they are the only Superpower as of the moment so deal with it. And i am a full blooded Canadian. Toronto Native.

from Wiki "A superpower is a state with the ability to influence events or project power on a global scale. In modern terms, this may imply an entity with a huge economy, a large population, and strong armed forces, including air and space power and a considerable arsenal of weapons of mass destruction." Other then U.S., are there any other countries, that follow this criteria? thought not.



Ummm, the fact that Canada does want to be absorbed...plus politics will have some part. If Quebec ever got it's wish to seperate, Newfoundland and Alberta will soon follow, Then the rest will fall into place. But Quebec probably will never seperate, nonetheless Canadians do want to unify.


Americans speak the same language, have same culture and same ideology, plus they are democratic...unless they get invaded and seperated, they will never divide willingly.



As said before, there have been talks, that people would love to be part of it.



I'm not so concerned about Russia, eventually they will get rid of their corruption problem, if they actually try.



Yes, the great moronic Bush, who freed Iraq and is eliminating terrorism.



Anywho, i must be off......as always msg me, if you actually want to attempt to debate with me over this matter.

You don't live in Canada now do you? Canadians would love to be part of the US, it's just that they hate Bush. They hate republicans as well....but it's mostly displaced anger from what i can tell.

I understand that Canada is up to its ears in debt, why would the United States want to take this on? Not only that but there is a significant independence movement in Quebec and one growing in BC, Canada is falling apart at the seams...I suppose there are plenty of Canadians who might want to enter the union, but we are two seperate nations with very seperate issues.

Canada and the US combined are bigger then Russia..... Their approximiate territory would be 2.5 million km more then Russia.

Land wise, I am pretty sure your right...the USSR before it broke up with all those damn stans, Belarus, the Ukraine and everywhere else it held might have been larger then US + Canada combined land-wise, but I think as is today, US+Canada would be larger.

Economic Power does not mean SuperPower....the US has the worlds best military, and has the worlds biggest GDP. Thus they are the only Superpower.

I agree, its well known and accepted throughout the world that the United States is the only remaining Superpower..the United Kingdom may be influential and be a world player but that does not make them another world power.

Quote:
To say that the US is the world's only superpower is not only ludicrous, it is also pig-headed, arrogant - if you are American, which I imagine you are - and is a completely uninformed opinion. Many nations idolise the US yes, but only because of her wealth, her democratic system and her supposed political freedoms. But remember, being the subject of admiration does not make you a superpower.



Tough luck, they are the only Superpower as of the moment so deal with it. And i am a full blooded Canadian. Toronto Native.

And I imagine you are a Briton, wishing for things to be different than they really are...but sooner or later you need to wake up, the United Kingdom is not currently a world superpower. One thing both our nations have in common (UK & US) is poor leadership, take comfort in that if you must.

Americans speak the same language, have same culture and same ideology, plus they are democratic...unless they get invaded and seperated, they will never divide willingly.

I never said we would divide willingly, I am saying that to think the United States will exist forever is almost idiotic...the ideal of people wanting to live in a free and democratic nation will most likely never die out however.

As said before, there have been talks, that people would love to be part of it.

I've gotten the distinct impression from alot of Canadian people that I have met that there exists alot of hatred towards the United States in Canada as with around the rest of the world...I doubt there is a significant movement for unifying our nations inside of Canada or this issue would be much more talked about.

Yes, the great moronic Bush, who freed Iraq and is eliminating terrorism.



Anywho, i must be off......as always msg me, if you actually want to attempt to debate with me over this matter.

Yes, the great moronic Bush who lead Americans to slaughter for NO reason whatsoever...you claim to free the Iraqi people, havent you heard though? There are talks of the United States leaving Iraq already, the region is in chaos and we who were supposably there to free the Iraqi people are going to abandon them in their true time of need that we created...

Yes, the great moronic Bush who pissed away record amounts of assets that lead to record defecits.

Yes, the great moronic Bush who is hated worldwide and scoffed at by a large portion of his own community as either a mental retard or a psychopath.

That very grammaticaly incorrect statement proves that we are prob the only military super power :)

Yes, the US probably is the BEST military superpower, but not the only. And it isn't the worls's only Superpower.

*Jesus Christ, how many times do I have to say that!?*

Yes, the US probably is the BEST military superpower, but not the only. And it isn't the worls's only Superpower.

*Jesus Christ, how many times do I have to say that!?*

More times even though, it is an inaccurate statement.

The United States is the world's only superpower at the moment. It is a rather known fact even though your trying to deny it.

I can see that you, Kertua, also spent a long time structuring your post above.

Brava!

The U.S. speaks two languages...

English and Spanish
Ingles y Espanol...

C'mon...let's get it right at least...

The U.S. speaks two languages...

English and Spanish
Ingles y Espanol...

C'mon...let's get it right at least...

This is true...in my region of the US (southwest), being bi-lingual and speaking both spanish and english is a huge benefit and almost required to obtain any sort of meaningful employment.

I'm not sure its this way in most other regions of the United States, however I believe Spanish is the official second language of the US and the CIA world factbook lists about 11.0% of the population speaks it as a main language.

The United States is the world's only superpower at the moment. It is a rather known fact even though your trying to deny it. :rolleyes: Semantics aside... you do realize that a full-scale war involving any two nations with nuclear capability would be devastating?

:rolleyes: Semantics aside... you do realize that a full-scale war involving any two nations with nuclear capability would be devastating?

Correct. Why do you think in 1962 the USSR and the USA didn't start shooting at eachother. The USA drew a line in the proverbial sand and the USSR didn't cross it because they knew that they would be destroyed along with the US.

OK Corneliu... Well China has nuclear capability. That implies the power to cause massive devastation to the US if they so choose to.

OK Corneliu... Well China has nuclear capability. That implies the power to cause massive devastation to the US if they so choose to.

And can you show me where I said anything different? Having nukes doesn't make you a superpower C6. China can't project their military overseas. They don't have that capacity. The US does. Britain can on a limited scale but the US can do it nearly overnight.

The United States is literally the world's only super power since the collapse of the USSR.

Dude I grew up on the US/Canada border (Buffalo NY) and I mightas well be the same country. Many people crossborde commute and shop. As far north as Toronto (God I love Toronto) the Greenback spends side by side with the Looney( ok with exchange more like the Twoony ;) ) and you can spend the Monopoly Money our freinds to the North print as far as Ohio and nobody bats an eye. Culture differences I have more in common with Jerry Canuck than the Hicks I live with here in Kansas City. God Bless Don Cherry, Hockey Night in Canada, TIM HORTON'S DOUGHNUTS, Labatt's in short brown bottles purchased from the "Beer Store" (OLB), CFNY, The X etc....I could literaly do this for hours wether or not people know it the US and Canada ARE the same country in all but law...(We think of you as one of the "blue states" ;) )




I understand that Canada is up to its ears in debt, why would the United States want to take this on? Not only that but there is a significant independence movement in Quebec and one growing in BC, Canada is falling apart at the seams...I suppose there are plenty of Canadians who might want to enter the union, but we are two seperate nations with very seperate issues.



Land wise, I am pretty sure your right...the USSR before it broke up with all those damn stans, Belarus, the Ukraine and everywhere else it held might have been larger then US + Canada combined land-wise, but I think as is today, US+Canada would be larger.



I agree, its well known and accepted throughout the world that the United States is the only remaining Superpower..the United Kingdom may be influential and be a world player but that does not make them another world power.



And I imagine you are a Briton, wishing for things to be different than they really are...but sooner or later you need to wake up, the United Kingdom is not currently a world superpower. One thing both our nations have in common (UK & US) is poor leadership, take comfort in that if you must.



I never said we would divide willingly, I am saying that to think the United States will exist forever is almost idiotic...the ideal of people wanting to live in a free and democratic nation will most likely never die out however.



I've gotten the distinct impression from alot of Canadian people that I have met that there exists alot of hatred towards the United States in Canada as with around the rest of the world...I doubt there is a significant movement for unifying our nations inside of Canada or this issue would be much more talked about.



Yes, the great moronic Bush who lead Americans to slaughter for NO reason whatsoever...you claim to free the Iraqi people, havent you heard though? There are talks of the United States leaving Iraq already, the region is in chaos and we who were supposably there to free the Iraqi people are going to abandon them in their true time of need that we created...

Yes, the great moronic Bush who pissed away record amounts of assets that lead to record defecits.

Yes, the great moronic Bush who is hated worldwide and scoffed at by a large portion of his own community as either a mental retard or a psychopath.

China already has a bigger army than the US, but not a better army. And anyways, army size between the two is irrelevant, the US knows that if a conflict occurs with China it will be a naval conflict not a land war. The US would basically blockade the Chinese coast using a combination of aircraft carriers and land bases (Okinawa, Guam, the Phillipines, Taiwan, etc.) and starve the PRC for resources. Perhaps with some strategic bombing mixed in as well. (remember what the sicilian said in the film "The Princess Bride," never start a land war in Asia.)

As for the claim that the PRC maintains a missile that can sink a carrier, this is true, but the missile would have to get through the various redundant defense layers that aircraft carriers have, AEGIS ships, aircraft carried interceptor missiles, jamming, CIWS guns, CIWS lasers (currently in development) and other things.

As to the Chinese developing a tank equal to the M1, so what? The M1 is twenty+ years old. And the F22 is a cold war era design. Chinese technology is not racing so fast as to reach comparable levels to the US anytime soon. Beyond that the concept of a US Chinese confrontation is simply put, amusing.

Dude I grew up on the US/Canada border (Buffalo NY) and I mightas well be the same country. Many people crossborde commute and shop. As far north as Toronto (God I love Toronto) the Greenback spends side by side with the Looney( ok with exchange more like the Twoony ;) ) and you can spend the Monopoly Money our freinds to the North print as far as Ohio and nobody bats an eye. Culture differences I have more in common with Jerry Canuck than the Hicks I live with here in Kansas City. God Bless Don Cherry, Hockey Night in Canada, TIM HORTON'S DOUGHNUTS, Labatt's in short brown bottles purchased from the "Beer Store" (OLB), CFNY, The X etc....I could literaly do this for hours wether or not people know it the US and Canada ARE the same country in all but law...(We think of you as one of the "blue states" ;) )

Different regions of the US are differently connected to other regions of the world...no doubt that the US Great Lakes region is fairly close with the Ontatio region of Canada, and up in Washington State and Oregon the culture is much like that of BC...but here in mundane southern Colorado, I have little in common with most Canadians other then the fact that I am anti-Bush. The culture here represents most of a Spanish heritage, does that mean Mexico will become the 51st state? not hardly.

News Flash .....it is Mexico is completly dependant on the US for trade economic support etc. Look at the numbers of Mexican in the US Mexico is as much of a de facto state as Canada (Except it's a swing state not like Canada :p )



Different regions of the US are differently connected to other regions of the world...no doubt that the US Great Lakes region is fairly close with the Ontatio region of Canada, and up in Washington State and Oregon the culture is much like that of BC...but here in mundane southern Colorado, I have little in common with most Canadians other then the fact that I am anti-Bush. The culture here represents most of a Spanish heritage, does that mean Mexico will become the 51st state? not hardly.

Americans just push the Irish gov out of the way and abuse them! Taking what they want when ever they want it! It started with bush! just landing their army planes and demanding Petrol! Our P.M. is worse than blair when it comes to that!
A-HA! I found the image-response to this!

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4127/11225712684809or.jpg

Is that kid wearing a MOOBY the COW shirt? Does Kevin Smith know about this blatant piracy?

A-HA! I found the image-response to this!

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4127/11225712684809or.jpg

A-HA! I found the image-response to this!

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/4127/11225712684809or.jpg

That is so true.
I didn't vote for Blair.

As to the Chinese developing a tank equal to the M1, so what? The M1 is twenty+ years old. And the F22 is a cold war era design. Chinese technology is not racing so fast as to reach comparable levels to the US anytime soon. Beyond that the concept of a US Chinese confrontation is simply put, amusing.
Um... Yes, the basic concepts and designs are Cold War era, but apparantly there's a blind eye turned towards the components of these weapon systems. The M1A2, while built and designed on the basis of the older M1A1, is still a drastically much more potent machine with better fire control and armour systems; the F/A-22 on the other hand, while its basic airframe design was devised more than ten years ago (though it has changed over the years), includes components and capabilities that are virtually unseen in the early 90s. With China, while their technology is still far off from the Americans, one must remember that getting the technology on the same level as the Americans is less important than devising new equipment and ways to employ them to effectively threaten the American forces in the theatre.

Loved the pic! it was very funny!

PLEASE the Chinese are still using STEEL armor for their tanks they have nothing to protect like Chobham and nothing to to pierce it.
Look at the Q-5 VS the F22 no comparison it would take literally squadrons to bring one down and the Chinese have no effective anti stealth or / stealth of there own.


Um... Yes, the basic concepts and designs are Cold War era, but apparantly there's a blind eye turned towards the components of these weapon systems. The M1A2, while built and designed on the basis of the older M1A1, is still a drastically much more potent machine with better fire control and armour systems; the F/A-22 on the other hand, while its basic airframe design was devised more than ten years ago (though it has changed over the years), includes components and capabilities that are virtually unseen in the early 90s. With China, while their technology is still far off from the Americans, one must remember that getting the technology on the same level as the Americans is less important than devising new equipment and ways to employ them to effectively threaten the American forces in the theatre.

PLEASE the Chinese are still using STEEL armor for their tanks they have nothing to protect like Chobham and nothing to to pierce it.


Hence they are upgrading. There was a Congress report claiming probably parity in a decade or so technologiclly.

I can promise you as an American that I have never beaten gas out of Ireland.

PLEASE the Chinese are still using STEEL armor for their tanks they have nothing to protect like Chobham and nothing to to pierce it.
I am eagerly awaiting for the sources supporting your highly questionable claim with doubtful anticipation.

Look at the Q-5 VS the F22 no comparison it would take literally squadrons to bring one down and the Chinese have no effective anti stealth or / stealth of there own.
...and what's your point in comparing a ground attack aircraft to an air superiority aircraft?

Will the chinese army grow over and get bigger than the us army? as its geting closer to doing so!

Do you think so? I do. i messed this up, sorry! so if you want to vote a poll will be in the forums shortly!


It's been bigger than the US army baka.

Ok, Chobham armor can't be cast, it has to be manufactured in "sheets" look at any Chinese tank... cast turret You can learn more here . (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-90_prc.htm) http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90ii-5-s.jpg See the rounded edges on the turret? NO CHOBAM. Also it has add on reactive armor, no need for that with Chobam.


Ok apples to apples the J-10 to F-22 both countrie's air superiority fighter. J-10 has excellent proformance and payload and is probably as manuverable as a F-15. It is also slab sided and has the radar profile of a humpback whale. Easily engaged BVR and killed by the stealthy F-22.

I am eagerly awaiting for the sources supporting your highly questionable claim with doubtful anticipation.


...and what's your point in comparing a ground attack aircraft to an air superiority aircraft?

The Chinese military will grow much bigger than the US'. They are already now, with twice the amount of soldiers and the largest Air Force in the world.

Now, does that mean their military will become better than that of the US? Not even close. Even with the outdated designs for US tanks and aircraft, they are at the forefront of the world. With superior training, military tactics, and technology, the US remains the strongest force in the world, and will retain that status for a while to come. Through bases in Japan, South Korea, and even Russia, a Chinese spearhead into any of its democratic neighbors would be blunted. Their military installations and cities would be flattened by continuous airstrikes, and their soldiers would be undersupplied, without proper training and weapons. They would not have the naval support or modern air force needed for a proper defense, let alone an assault.

The only threat the PRC is to the US is through its nuclear capabilities. And should they resort to that, the response will not leave much of a China remaining.

Ok, Chobham armor can't be cast, it has to be manufactured in "sheets" look at any Chinese tank... cast turret You can learn more here . (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-90_prc.htm) http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90ii-5-s.jpg See the rounded edges on the turret? NO CHOBAM. Also it has add on reactive armor, no need for that with Chobam.

Wow, I never knew that the only alternative to the Chobham armouring system is steel armour. I was also not aware that you can automatically judge whether a tank has steel or composite armour by looking at a small (almost too small) photo from FAS. Maybe they removed the Chobham armouring from the M1A2 TUSK so that they can put on the ERA blocks :rolleyes:

It is also slab sided and has the radar profile of a humpback whale. Easily engaged BVR and killed by the stealthy F-22.
Ah, wrong aircraft you picked for your example last post. Hmm, I would be surprised if they managed to get a humpback whale in the air, get a radar to scan it, and then compare its signature to those of the J-10. The point is, it'd doubtful that we know much information about possible stealthy features applied on the J-10, and let's not be too quick to make judgements.

The Chinese military will grow much bigger than the US'. They are already now, with twice the amount of soldiers and the largest Air Force in the world.

Now, does that mean their military will become better than that of the US? Not even close. Even with the outdated designs for US tanks and aircraft, they are at the forefront of the world. With superior training, military tactics, and technology, the US remains the strongest force in the world, and will retain that status for a while to come. Through bases in Japan, South Korea, and even Russia, a Chinese spearhead into any of its democratic neighbors would be blunted. Their military installations and cities would be flattened by continuous airstrikes, and their soldiers would be undersupplied, without proper training and weapons. They would not have the naval support or modern air force needed for a proper defense, let alone an assault.

The only threat the PRC is to the US is through its nuclear capabilities. And should they resort to that, the response will not leave much of a China remaining.


According o the CIA the army is downsizing but raising the tech/training levels. As I already said an estimated 10 years before military parity might be established. Also, their space programme is a lot more ambitious and well driven.

According o the CIA the army is downsizing but raising the tech/training levels. As I already said an estimated 10 years before military parity might be established. Also, their space programme is a lot more ambitious and well driven.

I believe that a small yet highly trained, specialized military is superior to a larger, disorganized force. It has been proven many times over in history that numbers do not equate into victory.

As for their space program...I'm not exactly sure how that would apply to warfare except for satellite recon, faster communications, and ballistic missiles. All of which have insane costs and which the US far excels in.

I believe that a small yet highly trained, specialized military is superior to a larger, disorganized force. It has been proven many times over in history that numbers do not equate into victory.

As for their space program...I'm not exactly sure how that would apply to warfare except for satellite recon, faster communications, and ballistic missiles. All of which have insane costs and which the US far excels in.

Dumbass.

The Chinese are catching up in terms of tech. Understand?

Space programmes can allow you to k/o enemy satellites, not to mention the potential to actuallycreate useful space travel.

Kincking it back to the Canada thing, it's more likely then you might think- if the Quebec seperatists get their way then the other terrotries(sp) may just decide to join the US- and it's likely the US gov, would be happy for this to happen as Canadians are already pretty wealthy so wouldn't present a drain on resources (like mejico) and would probably present a boost to the US economy,

Btw as a Brit, I understand America is the only remaining superpower- it's the only nation that can present power anywhere throughout the globe, and it militarily and economically dwarfs the UK. Britain, France, Germany etc are great powers- still important, just not as so.

PS; China's not the only emerging superpower, India could have a crack as well if at ever got it's act together. Of course the worst thing for America would be if Russia (ex-communist) China (still supposedly communist) and India (practically communist) joined together in some grand alliance. :sniper:

PS; China's not the only emerging superpower, India could have a crack as well if at ever got it's act together. Of course the worst thing for America would be if Russia (ex-communist) China (still supposedly communist) and India (practically communist) joined together in some grand alliance. :sniper:snipped original post

India's not likely to join with China. They've had problems with each other in the past. Also India's pretty friendly with the USA.

Dumbass.

The Chinese are catching up in terms of tech. Understand?

Space programmes can allow you to k/o enemy satellites, not to mention the potential to actuallycreate useful space travel.

...did you just say space travel? And you're calling me a dumbass?

The Chinese lack enough funds to provide for their billion and a half people, let alone provide for space travel. They may be catching up technologically, but it is not enough to reach the US' current standing for a while. Not to mention the amount of funds being poured into National Defense research by the US government.

I think before you start talking about underfunded, underdeveloped nations shooting down US satellites and traveling through space like something out of Star Trek, pick up a book and do some damned reading, fast.

Next time you have the urge to start talking about China becoming more powerful than the US, consider that as of now, the United States is the only nation today that can project its power on any location on Earth, both on the ground, in the air, and in the sea. With hostilities in Iraq and the threat of terrorism, the US will only increase in power. China currently has only the possibility as evolving into a major economic power, and there are more than enough scenarios that can ruin that for them. War with the United States is probably the first on the list. Understand?

First. Imagine the economic advantages available from workable space travel. Whoever figures it out could buy their own planet. Even if the Chinese don't, there are obvious advantages to creating it's own satellite network.

I never mentioned Star Trek or anything like it (as much as I'm a fan of Battlefleet Gothic...) but a well-run space programme is a definite Good Thing from China's perspective.

Second. China is indeed evolving into a powerful economy, that economy will fuel it's military, capisce?

America is the only superpower NOW. That's a given. Basing arguments off it is entirely pointless however. It will not go for China without a really good reason.

First. Imagine the economic advantages available from workable space travel. Whoever figures it out could buy their own planet. Even if the Chinese don't, there are obvious advantages to creating it's own satellite network.

I never mentioned Star Trek or anything like it (as much as I'm a fan of Battlefleet Gothic...) but a well-run space programme is a definite Good Thing from China's perspective.

Second. China is indeed evolving into a powerful economy, that economy will fuel it's military, capisce?

America is the only superpower NOW. That's a given. Basing arguments off it is entirely pointless however. It will not go for China without a really good reason.

It is developing. It is far from developed. Once it has become developed, then it will begin to fuel its military. By then, what new technologies will the US have at its disposal?

A space program can help, but the idea of space travel as a viable military option is so incredibly distant, I'm just surprised it was mentioned. The US currently has the strongest space initiative in the world, and NASA's chief engineers are still reasonably unsure about whether or not the shuttle Discovery currently in orbit can safely re-enter the atmosphere. When a piece of falling foam can cause such a catastrophe, I think it’s suffice to say that space-traveling technology is a ways off without some kind of super high demand for progress (such as during the Space Race with the US and Soviets).

And can you show me where I said anything different? Having nukes doesn't make you a superpower C6. China can't project their military overseas. They don't have that capacity.And I sure am thankfull for that, let me tell you.
Since the fall of Communism in Russia, China has slowly but steadily been increasing in their power.

Ok the reactive armor added to the SKIRTS is a responce to urban warfare an environment tanks are poorly suited to and it prevent a mobility kill by an RPG to the tracks. The M-1's speed advantage being nullified in a crowded street. Notice they didn't put it on the turret or glacias (sp) plate because it wasn't needed.http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/ct-90f.JPG this a MUCH larger version of what I posted earlier and you can clearly see it is a welded steel turret and hull CLEARLY not Chobham.

Now look at the rudder/GIANT FRIGGIN RADAR REFLECTOR on the J-10http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/j-10-Image12.jpg it has a 90 degree verticle rudder with active radar and it just SCREAMS look at my enormous radar profile. Oh and smartass you can calculate radar profile mathmaticly eliminating the need to sling load and fly said humpback.





Wow, I never knew that the only alternative to the Chobham armouring system is steel armour. I was also not aware that you can automatically judge whether a tank has steel or composite armour by looking at a small (almost too small) photo from FAS. Maybe they removed the Chobham armouring from the M1A2 TUSK so that they can put on the ERA blocks :rolleyes:


Ah, wrong aircraft you picked for your example last post. Hmm, I would be surprised if they managed to get a humpback whale in the air, get a radar to scan it, and then compare its signature to those of the J-10. The point is, it'd doubtful that we know much information about possible stealthy features applied on the J-10, and let's not be too quick to make judgements.

Bring the Cardinal Boras around and prepare the starboard lance batteries to fire! (Love dat Gothic :) )




First. Imagine the economic advantages available from workable space travel. Whoever figures it out could buy their own planet. Even if the Chinese don't, there are obvious advantages to creating it's own satellite network.

I never mentioned Star Trek or anything like it (as much as I'm a fan of Battlefleet Gothic...) but a well-run space programme is a definite Good Thing from China's perspective.

Second. China is indeed evolving into a powerful economy, that economy will fuel it's military, capisce?

America is the only superpower NOW. That's a given. Basing arguments off it is entirely pointless however. It will not go for China without a really good reason.

with russian and chinas military cooperation ever increasing the china will catch up with u.s.a. very soon.

you can clearly see it is a welded steel turret and hull CLEARLY not Chobham.
...yeah, and so the Leopard 2's armour is also made of steel just because it doesn't have Chobham?

Now look at the rudder/GIANT FRIGGIN RADAR REFLECTOR on the J-10http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/j-10-Image12.jpg it has a 90 degree verticle rudder with active radar and it just SCREAMS look at my enormous radar profile.
I'm far from an expert in regards to radar signatures and while I do acknowledge that the J-10's design might not be the stealthiest of all, I still find such claim that the basic design of the J-10 cannot have a small radar signautre at all to be doubtful. After all, they had done it with the Eurofighter, correct?

Oh and smartass you can calculate radar profile mathmaticly eliminating the need to sling load and fly said humpback.
Calm down. I was merely exhibiting the fact that you cannot assume the capability of something and be so sure of it when the thing is still, in actuality, under a virtual cloud of secrecy (it may not seems to be, but in actuality you'll find otherwise with just about any matters related with the PLA).

Leo2's I'm sure you know what they look like use a very similar armor to Chobham (a laminate also but with a slighty different make up) hence the "boxy" look ....the latest generation (and perhaps last) of MBT's Challanger, Abrams, Le Clerc, Leo 2 and the Merkava all use a system of laminate armor that gives the vehicle an angular look. (the Merkava also uses spaced and reactive armor the mix of armor may be to keep costs down but all laminate seem to be the way to go based on info from the gulf) Older Soviet style tanks have smaller cast or welded turrets and seem to go by the theory if they can't hit your turret they can't penetrate it. The Chinese T-90 has a large steel turret to house it's electronics ....Look see who sell the most tanks by export? The Russians sell a ton because they are simple and relable and CHEAP, the West (US,UK, BDR) sell the best tanks but mucho dinero, China sells very few, why?

This is moot because strong light plastic laminates will replace metal based laminates soon so no more MBT's when you can have a heavy wheeled vehicle with better speed and the same protection.

Look don't listen to me read up on it, the Chinese are hyping the crap out of their new toy to get export sales ...the spent a ton on r&d and don't have much to show (yet) and want to recoup by sell some to the 3rd world. (Good friggin luck I say F-16's are going cheap and the SU-27/37 Mig-29 are simply better pound for pound than any other non-stealth enabled fighter. I would say IF stealth weren't a factor the SU-37 would own the sky)


...yeah, and so the Leopard 2's armour is also made of steel just because it doesn't have Chobham?


I'm far from an expert in regards to radar signatures and while I do acknowledge that the J-10's design might not be the stealthiest of all, I still find such claim that the basic design of the J-10 cannot have a small radar signautre at all to be doubtful. After all, they had done it with the Eurofighter, correct?


Calm down. I was merely exhibiting the fact that you cannot assume the capability of something and be so sure of it when the thing is still, in actuality, under a virtual cloud of secrecy (it may not seems to be, but in actuality you'll find otherwise with just about any matters related with the PLA).

Look see who sell the most tanks by export? The Russians sell a ton because they are simple and relable and CHEAP, the West (US,UK, BDR) sell the best tanks but mucho dinero, China sells very few, why?

China is building up its military, hence they want more tanks, hence they aren't going to part with the ones they build. Russia is desperate for money and would sell the Kremlin if it could. Just one possible explanation.

We've occupied Ireland?
Yeah. Didn't you hear? Idaho ran out of potatoes. :rolleyes:

How the hell are we going to absorb Canada? They don't want to be US citizens, and we don't want to fight against an insurgency right on our northern border.
LOL! Why the hell would we WANT it anyway? Nuffin' but moose, geese and mice. :D

LOL! Why the hell would we WANT it anyway? Nuffin' but moose, geese and mice. :D

Just watch a session of the Canadian Parliament on CSPAN and you'll know why we don't want it. I've never seen so many crazy people in the same room!

with russian and chinas military cooperation ever increasing the china will catch up with u.s.a. very soon.
Wishfull thinking on your part pal. Russia's new fighter for export, the JF-17 is still only considered about 80% as effective as newer models of the F-16. The USA has a considerable lead over both Russia and China in weapons technology.

I know it kills you to know that the USA has military superiority and is likely to maintain it for some time, that's what makes this post all the sweeter.

China is building up its military, hence they want more tanks, hence they aren't going to part with the ones they build. Russia is desperate for money and would sell the Kremlin if it could. Just one possible explanation.
China would gladly sell all the military hardware they can. The profits would be plowed back into more factories and weapons R&D. Selling Tanks means China could build more and better tanks.

the chinese might have more troops in number but then thats what our army is technologicly over powering dont quote me but in vietnam we killed 4 times as many as we lost and soon before you know it well have cyborgs or andriods mowing down the opposition even if it is the chinese and ill have you know we fought china in the korean war and thats why there is north and south korea cuz china dun like us on there border! thats majorly why i dont think china really shouldnt worry about N Korea and there nukes

Will the chinese army grow over and get bigger than the us army? as its geting closer to doing so!

Do you think so? I do. i messed this up, sorry! so if you want to vote a poll will be in the forums shortly!

Are you kidding? The People's Liberation Army is already by far the largest army in the world.

Russia's new fighter for export, the JF-17 is still only considered about 80% as effective as newer models of the F-16.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder

That project (when it was called the MiG-33) was rejected years ago by the Russian Air Force(or at that point, the Soviet Air Force) . It got picked up by China and Pakistan, to be developed jointly as the J-9. Russia isn't exporting this fighter.

My god am I growing sick and tired of these kinds of discussions.
Unlike some other times, I'll just throw in my 2 cents, and then maybe respond here or there:

1) The Chinese military is already much larger than the US military.

2) Although I'm Chinese, and love how my own race is rising, I'm frankly quite worried just how the Chinese government will handle their new found power in the long run. IMO, they won't go around conquering the world just yet. (China didn't last 5,000 years by being stupid...all the time.) I'd much rather have the US and China work together, than any major standoff, between the two.

3) I'll only say that the US military is better because it's been combat tested time and time again in recent years, and has always pulled through.

4) Neither the US, or China should fight for oil, or Taiwan. The US, and China are linked very closely in economic terms, and any action would suck for both sides.

5) The Chinese military is definitely growing in sophistication, and it is definitely NOT a bloated army of poorly trained conscripts any more. Whether or not it will be able to surpass the US military is entirely up in the air, and NO ONE will have any idea unless the two actually fight each other. Any time I read, “Oh US military would walk all over China.” Or vice versa, should be ignored, because they honestly can’t say for sure.


(For the record, I haven't read through all the posts in this thread. So, yeah, take that bit of info, and apply it however...)

Just watch a session of the Canadian Parliament on CSPAN and you'll know why we don't want it. I've never seen so many crazy people in the same room!
ROFL! Not even in the US Senate? Wow! I need to watch that! :D

You people should read some of the recent books by Tom Clancy. In the Bear and the Dragon, China invades Russia because of new gold and oil sources found in Siberia. The Russians of course need the money. Russia deals with problems such as the mafia, and debt. The U.S and Britain help Russia out by sending troops. The U.S uses technology such as bunker busters to destroy fortified bridges in China. Its an interesting book. Technology is definately the U.S advantage. Oh and it tells what happens to the Chinese nukes..

To be honest I'm surprised nobody has used this smiley :headbang:
As a side note the US recruitment rate has dropped so much that recruiters have had to lower their quotas just to make it look like they are still doing their jobs. The US PLANS to leave Iraq but we'll have to wait and see if it actually happens. The way Bush is talking about other countries ( ie. accusing them of helping terrorists) I will not be surprised if Bush decided that a draft is needed. Yes, I know that Bush "promised" that he would not have a draft but lets face it, it's his last term and both the house and the senate are republican controlled. I'm not saying that he will impose a draft I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised. In regards to the whole US/Canada thing, nobody can accurately predict the future (the news weather people for example); Canada MIGHT split apart, Washington MIGHT become 2 different states, and China MIGHT catch up with the US. The question is, how far will the US have advanced in the time it takes China to catch up with where the US is now.

ROFL! Not even in the US Senate? Wow! I need to watch that! :D

Picture 200+ madmen screaming and yelling at each other in both English and French about the validity of yesterday's weather forecast, all while an interpretter frantically translates it into sign language (in case deaf people are watching) in exaggerated, sweeping hand motions.

I never thought Canada was too different from the US until I witnessed this.

You people should read some of the recent books by Tom Clancy. In the Bear and the Dragon, China invades Russia because of new gold and oil sources found in Siberia. The Russians of course need the money. Russia deals with problems such as the mafia, and debt. The U.S and Britain help Russia out by sending troops. The U.S uses technology such as bunker busters to destroy fortified bridges in China. Its an interesting book. Technology is definately the U.S advantage. Oh and it tells what happens to the Chinese nukes..

And you believe Clancy for your military news...

Wishfull thinking on your part pal. Russia's new fighter for export, the JF-17 is still only considered about 80% as effective as newer models of the F-16. The USA has a considerable lead over both Russia and China in weapons technology.

I know it kills you to know that the USA has military superiority and is likely to maintain it for some time, that's what makes this post all the sweeter.
hahaha the the russia has and china too SU-35flankers [su-33s have suprised kitty hawk man if it was for real it -kaboooom] that are superior than any other non-stealthy plane in this world and f-16 thats cool plane but MiG- 29 is better yet alone the Suhois,,,,russian aircraft industry has suprised many who predicted its death in mid 90s.....i am not for killling of any kind do u know how it is to kill a man???probably not. so shut the fu# up u stupid idiot....i said usa has superiority now but not for very long!.

hahaha the the russia has and china too SU-35flankers [su-33s have suprised kitty hawk man if it was for real it -kaboooom] that are superior than any other non-stealthy plane in this world and f-16 thats cool plane but MiG- 29 is better yet alone the Suhois,,,,russian aircraft industry has suprised many who predicted its death in mid 90s.....i am not for killling of any kind do u know how it is to kill a man???probably not. so shut the fu# up u stupid idiot....i said usa has superiority now but not for very long!.

Hmm dude, we only know about the F-22 and JSF. I'm sure we have other more technologically advanced fighters on the drawing table as we speak. I doubt it very much that Russia and China can close the technological gap very quickly, if ever.

Hmm dude, we only know about the F-22 and JSF. I'm sure we have other more technologically advanced fighters on the drawing table as we speak. I doubt it very much that Russia and China can close the technological gap very quickly, if ever.If they detain a few more american spy planes... you never know. :D

If they detain a few more american spy planes... you never know. :D

Hopefully the next spy plane they hold will be on the receiving end of a US missile strike to destroy the plane. If that isn't possible, then rig the plane to explode. That can easily be done.

But will the pilot be able to detonate in time? Or will he able to escape if he does?

Hmm dude, we only know about the F-22 and JSF. I'm sure we have other more technologically advanced fighters on the drawing table as we speak. I doubt it very much that Russia and China can close the technological gap very quickly, if ever..hm ok well i have been criticised for not giving links here many times but here is a nice site for u some of this planes did fly some have been only tested in wind tunnels and some are concepts ...the site is done by a Slovak Matej Furda -i dont think u speak slovakian so here are his posts in english so u can understand...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread108082/pg1.........and my favourite...http://www.flymig.com/aircraft/Su-47/10.htm

.hm ok well i have been criticised for not giving links here many times but here is a nice site for u some of this planes did fly some have been only tested in wind tunnels and some are concepts ...the site is done by a Slovak Matej Furda -i dont think u speak slovakian so here are his posts in english so u can understand...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread108082/pg1.........and my favourite...http://www.flymig.com/aircraft/Su-47/10.htm

I guess you didn't understand me.

We have other more technologically advanced fighters, bombers, etc on the board. This will allow us to keep our technological edge. Doesn't matter what they put up. Odds are, we have something to counter it thus rendering whatever advanced design they have with a more advanced design.

I guess you didn't understand me.

We have other more technologically advanced fighters, bombers, etc on the board. This will allow us to keep our technological edge. Doesn't matter what they put up. Odds are, we have something to counter it thus rendering whatever advanced design they have with a more advanced design.
i am saying they will catch you up,and stop ignoring 9/10 of the planets educated population! the edge as you say will get eroded and already more or less is,even stealth fighters you say are detecteble by unmanned air vehicles high in atmosphere with strong meteorological! radars that mesure the air particles turbulense not reflections from object so your fighter would have to go at speed of 50 km/h to stay undetected...

Until China builds a legitmate blue-water navy, they will never rival the U.S. in terms of military superiority.

Period.

The Greeks knew it, the Spanish knew it, the British knew it, the U.S. fought Japan over it, and now the U.S. knows it.

China has a long way to go...and the U.S. sure as hell won't be standing still waiting for China to catch up.

Until China builds a legitmate blue-water navy, they will never rival the U.S. in terms of military superiority.

Period.

The Greeks knew it, the Spanish knew it, the British knew it, the U.S. fought Japan over it, and now the U.S. knows it.

China has a long way to go...and the U.S. sure as hell won't be standing still waiting for China to catch up. and when has the american navy had a new aircraft carear-not for a long time ,its getting old and its very visible from space and a ramjet missile thousands of kilometers away flying low can destroy it together with a bunch of airplanes!! for advanced army aircraft carears are easy targets!

and when has the american navy had a new aircraft carear-not for a long time ,its getting old and its very visible from space and a ramjet missile thousands of kilometers away flying low can destroy it together with a bunch of airplanes!! for advanced army aircraft carears are easy targets!

Our Carriers are anything but easy targets dude. And for your information, the USS Ronald Reagan was recently commissioned and we're expected to get a couple of more (and more advanced no less) carriers. Not to mention the carriers escort ships are also highly advanced. And it'll take more than one missile to sink an Aircraft carrier.

Didn't we have this debate already somewhere else on these forums?

Dude the USS Ronald Reagan CVN76 is just over a year old and USS GH Bush is under construction! It would take a nuke to sink it. It is proctected by an entire battle group. Nothing short of a theatre balistic missle could touch it. Even the highly vaunted Sunburn and Sunburn II are long enough ranged to hit it. The strike aircraft midair refuel so they could hit damn near any place in the world from San Deigo harbor ....news flash carriers carry tanker aircraft.



and when has the american navy had a new aircraft carear-not for a long time ,its getting old and its very visible from space and a ramjet missile thousands of kilometers away flying low can destroy it together with a bunch of airplanes!! for advanced army aircraft carears are easy targets!

Delator speaks the truth. Anyone want to name the country with the largest naval presence in the East China Sea?

That's right. It's the United States.

with russian and chinas military cooperation ever increasing the china will catch up with u.s.a. very soon.

... Russia and China hate each other. There were numerous border clashes with between the two throughout the Cold War and I think the government of the former USSR closed diplomatic channels with Beijing. Their relations have thawed, to be sure, but just because they're now practicing joint miliatry excersizes doesn't mean the Russians will share tech with the Chinese.

Besides, currently most of China's military is equipped with adaptions of Soviet tanks, planes, and ships, which were pretty shoddy to begin with because they were meant to be cheap and easily produced in large quantities. There are a couple new designs entering service with their military, but it all still lags behind the the US in terms of technology.

Don't forget that while China is bridging the gap, the US is still advancing. The F/A-22 and F-35 fighters are gonna hit the production lines in the next year or two, and a replacement for the M-1 Abrams is being developed (won't be produced until 2010 at the earliest, tho). You've got a replacement for the M-16 rifle on the drawing board, a replacement for the M-2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicle has seen limited deployment in Iraq, and it's proven to be effective, and a couple stealth warships under development or under construction. Yes, China is catching up, but I don't think they'll reach technological parity with the US for another 10 or 20 years, at least.

1. yes, I thought they'd been bigger than use for a while

2. Who cares? Bigger is one thing, better is another thing entirely.

-Tomás

and when has the american navy had a new aircraft carear-not for a long time ,its getting old and its very visible from space and a ramjet missile thousands of kilometers away flying low can destroy it together with a bunch of airplanes!! for advanced army aircraft carears are easy targets!

... dude... just... no

The Ronald Reagan was the first of a new class of carriers that we comissioned about a year ago, the George HW Bush is nearing completion, and we've got another 2 or 3 of the class under construction or planned to be started soon.

And a bunch of planes can destroy one? Please, the carriers are the core of our fleet, you rarely see one sailing without at least 20 escort vessels accompanying it. The missile would have to go through all of the anti-missile systems on ALL of the ships, not just the carrier, and a bunch of planes would have to get through all the AA on the ships and the carrier's fighter complement (even the old Nimitz class carriers carry more aircraft than many countries have in their entire air forces).

They are about twice as big if I am not mistaken.

... dude... just... no

The Ronald Reagan was the first of a new class of carriers that we comissioned about a year ago, the George HW Bush is nearing completion, and we've got another 2 or 3 of the class under construction or planned to be started soon.

Slightly inaccurate. The next 2 Carriers are going to be of the new class but the Reagan and Bush are both Nimitz class supercarriers. CVN 78 and 79 will be of the new class of carrier. The USS Ronald Reagan is in service whereas the USS George H.W. Bush is due to be commissioned in 2009 :D

And a bunch of planes can destroy one? Please, the carriers are the core of our fleet, you rarely see one sailing without at least 20 escort vessels accompanying it. The missile would have to go through all of the anti-missile systems on ALL of the ships, not just the carrier, and a bunch of planes would have to get through all the AA on the ships and the carrier's fighter complement (even the old Nimitz class carriers carry more aircraft than many countries have in their entire air forces).

This here is accurate!

I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed this out or not, but China's army is already bigger than that of the United States. It has the largest army in the world. Now as far as technological stuff goes, well that's another story for now anyway.

It's already bigger :D

Will it get more powerful? I don't think so. But it may grow close to as powerful, and that is still almost as bad.

If it takes over a few countries, then we'd be screwed.