NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently, $500,000 earmarked for kids and old people was used as start up money for the network. Now that Air America is up and running, they won't give the money back.
From the STORY (http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/331339p-283184c.html)
In its initial announcement, the DOI said it was probing allegations that program officials "approved significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various city agencies.

According to published reports, the allegations involve Charles Rosen, the founder of Gloria Wise who has stepped down as executive director, investing city contract funds in Air America Radio, the liberal talk radio network.

Evan Cohen, Air America's former chairman, had served as Gloria Wise's director of development."

WHOOO! Just as the DSM and Plame-Out "scandals" have been proven to be BS, here comes a scandal you libs can sink your teeth into.
GIVE THE MONEY BACK!

This is the statement from management at Air America. Notice they still haven't mentioned ANYTHING about repaying the money.

On MAY 24, 2004 the newly formed PIQUANT LLC acquired the principal assets of AIR AMERICA RADIO from the prior ownership entities. PIQUANT has owned and operated AIR AMERICA RADIO since that time. The company that had run AIR AMERICA RADIO till then no longer had anything to do with the network.

PIQUANT had no involvement whatsoever with funds from GLORIA WISE BOYS &GIRLS CLUB. PIQUANT neither received nor expended any of the sums that are the subject of the City's investigation of the CLUB.

PIQUANT is not being investigated by the City, which is investigating a transaction that took place before PIQUANT existed.
Piquant took over controlling interest in Air America therefore PIQUANT took over the DEBT incurred for the start up.

I think the decent thing to do would be to hold a fundraiser on the air to get the money repayed then. It shouldn't take too long, and I'm sure dedicated listeners would be happy to contribute. I wouldnt compare this to exposing the identity of of a secret agent though.

This story has been been going on for about a month. The investigation has been going on longer. The owners have known about this since they bought Air America.

Al, Randi, and Janeane have had ample time to start a fund raiser. If this was Limbaugh or Hannity, I doubt the Left would be so calm and restrained.

This story has been been going on for about a month. The investigation has been going on longer. The owners have known about this since they bought Air America.

Al, Randi, and Janeane have had ample time to start a fund raiser. If this was Limbaugh or Hannity, I doubt the Left would be so calm and restrained.

Well not having been in teh midst of discussions at Air Ameirca with Al and the Gang, I can't say what their positions on this are. Perhaps they wanted to do a fundraiser and weren't allowed, perhaps they didn't. Maybe they are fighting over who shoudl do what for who. It's really not their fault but if the future of their station is at stake then they should come up with some way to figure out a solution and paying the money back, 'cause is the right thing to do.

I can't speak for all liberals but, had it been Rush or Hannity working for a station that did this I would feel the same way. I would think the owners suck for what they did and hopefully the station would find a way to pay it back.

This has nothing to do with ideology. This is sickening.

Air America is run by greedy criminals. People like this know no ideology.

This story has been been going on for about a month. The investigation has been going on longer. The owners have known about this since they bought Air America.

Al, Randi, and Janeane have had ample time to start a fund raiser. If this was Limbaugh or Hannity, I doubt the Left would be so calm and restrained.
because limbaugh and hannity are soulless hacks

Ihatevacations']because limbaugh and hannity are soulless hacks

this makes so little sense, yet it explains so much.

This has nothing to do with ideology. This is sickening.

Air America is run by greedy criminals. People like this know no ideology.


this makes so little sense, yet explains so much.

I fail to see how Air America is at fault. They received money from this politician acting on behalf of the city. It's not up to them to see where the money is coming from if they think it's being given in good faith and they receive it in equally good faith.

If this politician did something wrong with the money, then it has to be on his head, not Air America. If the city then wants to recover its money they can sell their share, but Air America doesn't have to give it back (and probably has it all tied up anyway), unless it's proven they did something in bad faith.

this makes so little sense, yet explains so much.

this makes so little sense, yet explains so little.

I fail to see how Air America is at fault. They received money from this politician acting on behalf of the city. It's not up to them to see where the money is coming from if they think it's being given in good faith and they receive it in equally good faith.

If this politician did something wrong with the money, then it has to be on his head, not Air America. If the city then wants to recover its money they can sell their share, but Air America doesn't have to give it back (and probably has it all tied up anyway), unless it's proven they did something in bad faith.

Air America's chairman was also Gloria Wise's Director of Development. Gloria Wise is the nonprofit organization that illegally directed funds to Air America. Make sense?

Air America's chairman was also Gloria Wise's Director of Development. Gloria Wise is the nonprofit organization that illegally directed funds to Air America. Make sense?
Ooooh, I see. Then, if they did it, they should certainly be jailed. I don't know how the reparation of damage would work, since corporations are considered separate entities, and they have a new owner and all that.

WHOOO! Just as the DSM and Plame-Out "scandals" have been proven to be BS, here comes a scandal you libs can sink your teeth into.
GIVE THE MONEY BACK!

Can someone explain to me how the DSM and Plame scandals have proven to be "BS". It's genuine question. I know that both stories have disappeared lately, but I never saw anything that refuted either of them.

I don't know how the reparation of damage would work, since corporations are considered separate entities, and they have a new owner and all that.

PIQUANT became responsible for the debt when they took control of Air America.

Did some searching on this and found this article (uncouth as it is):

http://leatherpenguin.com/wordpress/?p=197

The questions posted by the blogger got me thinking...

*Puts on his conspiracy hat*

Mayhaps this whole thing was a setup from the get go to bog Air America down in scandal and lead to its closure.

*leaves*

Did some searching on this and found this article (uncouth as it is):

http://leatherpenguin.com/wordpress/?p=197

The questions posted by the blogger got me thinking...

*Puts on his conspiracy hat*

Mayhaps this whole thing was a setup from the get go to bog Air America down in scandal and lead to its closure.

*leaves*

Ah ha! It's the "vast right-wing conspiracy" doing it's thing again!

“Left-Wing radio network steals money from cute little kids and sick old people”
ROFLMAO

I hope those greedy scumbags get shut down. They claim that they're compassionate just because they're liberal, and that no conservatives are compassionate like this. Well, have any conservative radio stations taken money from sick kids and old people and not given it back?

I rest my case.

Ah ha! It's the "vast right-wing conspiracy" doing it's thing again!

Not totally unreasonable though. Peep this:

Evan Cohen, Air America's former chairman, had served as Gloria Wise's director of development."

Evan Cohen is a Republican from Guam.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/e/ev/evan_montvel_cohen.htm

Allegations were also raised about Cohen's previous ties to the Republican Party on Guam. Cohen dismissed concerns about his political past by saying he was a committed "progressive" and Republicans in Guam "are left of (Click link for more info and facts about Paul Wellstone) Paul Wellstone." Cohen had also previously told others that he was diagnosed with brain cancer in 2001 only to make a miraculous recovery and that spurred him to devote his life to liberal causes. (Click link for more info and facts about Mark Walsh) Mark Walsh, an co-investor and executive at Air America Radio, said he found Cohen's cancer recovery story impressive.

Impressing a victim with a neat story is the first step a conman uses to get a sucker to deal with him.

It isn't entirely impossible.

EDIT

I find the conspiracy theory very delicious. After all, this would discourage future venture capitalists and advertisers from investing in a liberal radio talk station if they get painted as cheats early in the race.

I hope those greedy scumbags get shut down. They claim that they're compassionate just because they're liberal, and that no conservatives are compassionate like this. Well, have any conservative radio stations taken money from sick kids and old people and not given it back?

I rest my case.

I'll point out again that at least one of the 'greedy scumbags' was a Republican.

The on air talent had nothing to do with setting up the business and it seems to be in the hands of the two guys who started it up.

This whole thread was set up to be flamebait. I suggest you read this site to learn how to discuss the matter more maturely.

http://www.tacitus.org/story/2004/6/22/111927/316

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/a/ai/air_america_radio.htm

It was reported that Cohen had unpaid business debts in Guam, although Cohen denies this.

Hmm...motive to cut and run, maybe?

The plot thickens...

This whole thread was set up to be flamebait.
No, actually it wasn't.

You'll notice very little flaming going on because the leftists here at NS are trying to ignore it. It's exactly what I expected them to do.

I find it interesting, and very amusing, to see how capricious their commitment to the poor and oppressed can be.

I think I have been proven correct when I wrote that if Hannity or Limbaugh were involved with this, people wouldn't be so calm and reticent about it.

Don't you find that a little disturbing or, at least, intriguing? Why?

So if you want to accuse me of anything, accuse me of setting up this thread as anti-flamebait.

Bourgeoisie kill Proletarian mothers to make ther little Proletarian babies cry exclusive.

I'm not shocked. And you all know what the decent thing to do really is, I'll be the one in red at the docks handing out the arms.

:mp5:

I guess the thing about this is, all we have now are allegations. If this did happen, that Cohen guy is a scumbag who should go to prison and the company should give the money back. Give them time to find out the truth and do the right thing, and if they don't then they deserve our scorn.

Frankly, that "if Rush or Hannity did this" sword cuts both ways and you know it. In that case, I'm sure there would be some right wingers on here saying that this was liberal media blowing things out of proportion etc. etc. etc.

It's just a crappy radio show that nobody listens to in the first place and which will most likely be out of business in a few months.

I guess the thing about this is, all we have now are allegations. If this did happen, that Cohen guy is a scumbag who should go to prison and the company should give the money back. Give them time to find out the truth and do the right thing, and if they don't then they deserve our scorn.

Frankly, that "if Rush or Hannity did this" sword cuts both ways and you know it. In that case, I'm sure there would be some right wingers on here saying that this was liberal media blowing things out of proportion etc. etc. etc.

It's just a crappy radio show that nobody listens to in the first place and which will most likely be out of business in a few months.
I doubt that a conservative radio show would ever find itself in this predicament. First, they have a marketable product. Advertisers will buy airtime on the conservative shows. Second, they typically start as local shows on one station. They syndicate after proving they are marketable.

Air America just wanted to start at the same level as Limbaugh and others, but they didn't have the product or the money. Too bad that the pols had to divert tax money to get them started; that should be a criminal offense. You can't blame the liberals for taking the money, though. They absolutely believe that they are entitled to spend our money as they see fit. Especially if it's tax revenue.

No, actually it wasn't.

You'll notice very little flaming going on because the leftists here at NS are trying to ignore it. It's exactly what I expected them to do.

I find it interesting, and very amusing, to see how capricious their commitment to the poor and oppressed can be.

I think I have been proven correct when I wrote that if Hannity or Limbaugh were involved with this, people wouldn't be so calm and reticent about it.

Don't you find that a little disturbing or, at least, intriguing? Why?

So if you want to accuse me of anything, accuse me of setting up this thread as anti-flamebait.


So what about responsding to the rest of his post then? Or do you not have a response.

And I'm betting that most people are avoiding this because of the thread title, which IS flamebait. Air America didn't "take away money" from anyone as if it was stolen. The article says it was invested in Air America. Also you seem to be saying that the on air talent had somethign to do with it.

I'm betting that my first couple of posts speak for most liberals as well, which could be another reason you aren't seeing this thread get a lot of attention.

ALso, you say that the DSM and Plame-Out was conclusively proven to be BS? Since when? ALso a question asked of you earlier which you avoided. It's not like it's off topic. You brought it up in your first post. You most certainly aren't looking for a rational debate on this. If you think that you are maybe you should learn how to express yoruself better.

Add you say there hasn't been much flaming in this thread. We're only on page two my friend and there has been a good amount of flaming and surprise surpprise it's mostly coming from the right-wingers.

Nihilist Krill - what the hell are you on?

Nihilist Krill - what the hell are you on?

I'm asserting the fact that the right and mainstream left in the US are not that different from each other in terms of ideology. And urging my comrades to redress this oversight in the only way open to them. By raising arms against the state. However I dont hold out much hope for success.

;)

I'm asserting the fact that the right and mainstream left in the US are not that different from each other in terms of ideology. And urging my comrades to redress this oversight in the only way open to them. By raising arms against the state. However I dont hold out much hope for success.

;)


oh okay - well a word of warning, advocating illegal activity will get you banned I think.

I think Air America is doomed to irrelevance and failure because there aren't as many liberals interested in one-sided liberal vitriol the way that there are conservatives interested in one-sided conservative vitriol. The Daily Show is a more popular option because it's funny and doesn't really beat its listeners over the head.

oh okay - well a word of warning, advocating illegal activity will get you banned I think.

ah but my legality is anothers illegality. etc.

Ah, the distinct odor of the Neoconservative echo chamber. That's right, you Friedman Fanatic, you Limbaugh Lunatic, you Hannity Huffer, you Coulter Cuckoo, you Sullivan Swiller -- keep repeating the horseshit until your brethren take it as fact.

Eric Alterman (www.whatliberalmedia.com) and many others have outed you already. Nobody's buying.

ah but my legality is anothers illegality. etc.

lol - that may be true, however, when it comes to whos idead of what is legal and illegal matters, I think the decision falls to the Mods. Just letting you know. If you don't care if you get banned, then more power to ya.

I think Air America is doomed to irrelevance and failure because there aren't as many liberals interested in one-sided liberal vitriol the way that there are conservatives interested in one-sided conservative vitriol. The Daily Show is a more popular option because it's funny and doesn't really beat its listeners over the head.

I think that air-america is doomed for other reasons.

First, the conservative programs that are so popular in our country--rush limbaugh, sean hannity, etc.--are programs extolling the virtues of conservatism, but they're not republican party mouthpieces. In other words, the hosts and formats advocate conservative ideals, not republican ideals. It's ideologically partisan, not party partisan like Air America is. For example, Sean Hannity is a fan of Democratic Senator and former Democratic Vice Presidential nominee Joseph Liberman, because they agree on certain issues that are important to Mr. Hannity + Hannity doesn't see him as a partisan lap-dog hack who just votes the party line over his conscience. Mr. Limbaugh has expressed reservation over endorsing candidates such as California Governor Schwartzenegger because of the Governor's liberal views on matters of social policy. Contrarily, you'll never, ever see or hear anything good said of any Republican, or anything bad said of anyone who calls themselves a Democrat, on Air America because the show is not about ideas; it's about party politics. This is a key difference because someone trying to convince you to their way of thinking is trying to inform you, but someone who is just a mouthpiece for a political party is trying to manipulate you.

If you're still not convinced that there is a difference, consider that conservative talk-show and other media programs have exploded in popularity over the last decade and 1/2, but the Republican-biased and very well-funded GOP-radio and GOP-TV programs were such tremendous failures that a lot of people reading this have probably never heard of those programs. For this reason alone, I expect Air America to at most fail completely and at least struggle along for the entire remainder of its existence.

Secondly, conservatives who tune into their conservative-based media programs overwhelmingly do so because of what they perceive as a liberal-media bias in the mainstream. (These statistics are a bit dated, but I know that in 1993, for example, a survey of radio television news reporters was taken-- 91% reported voting for Clinton, 5% reported voting for Perot, 3% reported voting for Bush). Conservatives who listen to these programs listen because they feel that the mainstream media is not covering the stories that they want to hear, or not covering the stories in ways that consider their views. Most liberals (I can't say ALL liberals, but most of them) feel that there isn't a biased in the mainstream media. Without discussing the merit of their arguments on this matter, if liberals believe that they're getting an honest, unbiased account of the news in the mainstream media, what incentive do they have to tune into a liberal radio program?

Lastly, the demographics that make large segments of liberals are not the groups that are inclined to listen to news radio to begin with.

p.s. Conservative programs have their party-biased hacks as well. I, personally, would put Tucker Carlson and Ann Coulter on that list.

This is from the Air America Site (http://www.airamericaradio.com/press/gloriawise)
The current owners of Air America Radio have no obligation to Progress Media‚s business activities. We are very disturbed that Air America Radio's good name could be associated with a reduction in services for young people, which is why we agreed months ago to fully compensate the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club as a result of this transaction.
What a bunch of clowns.
First off, they said they agreed to pay the money back. HAVE THEY?
I mean, clearly they haven't or they would have stated that up front but they've known about this for months and the charity had to be shut the down for lack of funding.
Why are they being so mealy mouthed about it? Why the lag time between word and action? TOO PATHETIC.
Another poster in this thread said that they were GOOB, I have to agree.

This is from the Air America Site (http://www.airamericaradio.com/press/gloriawise)

What a bunch of clowns.
First off, they said they agreed to pay the money back. HAVE THEY?
I mean, clearly they haven't or they would have stated that up front but they've known about this for months and the charity had to be shut the down for lack of funding.
Why are they being so mealy mouthed about it? Why the lag time between word and action? TOO PATHETIC.
Another poster in this thread said that they were GOOB, I have to agree.

They've always had funding problems. Maybe they just haven't paid it back yet because the money is already spent and they can't afford to do it right now.

From Air America Website:

"Statement from Air America Radio
Statement:
If the allegations of mismanagement and corruption at Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club are true, it is absolutely disgraceful.

As reported in the Wall Street Journal and the HBO Documentary, Left of the Dial‚ the company that the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club officials gave money to, Progress Media, has been defunct since May 2004. That company was run at the time by Evan Cohen who has not had any involvement in Air America Radio since May 2004.

The current owners of Air America Radio have no obligation to Progress Media‚s business activities. We are very disturbed that Air America Radio's good name could be associated with a reduction in services for young people, which is why we agreed months ago to fully compensate the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club as a result of this transaction.

We at Air America Radio strongly believe in the mission of Boys and Girls Clubs to provide a safe and nurturing place for young people to learn and grow. As a result, we recently allowed the same club, Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club, to use our name in a fundraising effort for a summer camp for children in their community.

The funding for Camp Air America was raised and collected entirely by the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club, and Air America promoted the camp on air and urged support for it. A link on our web site sent those interested in contributing to the camp to the Gloria Wise web site. Regrettably, the camp did not survive the closure of the Gloria Wise organization. We have offered any individuals who contributed to the camp as a result of Air America's promotion the option of a refund paid for by Air America Radio and the Club offered the alternative option of having their donation redirected to Kip's Bay Boys and Girls Club."

From the Boys and Girls club (which hasn't been shut down):

"Just say the words “summer camp” and memories of canoeing, campfires, swimming and best friends may instantly come to mind. Summer camp is an adventure unlike any other!

At Camp Air America, youngsters ages 8 through 12 years engage in exciting, full-filled activities from morning until nightfall! But camp is more than a fun adventure. At camp, children improve self-confidence and self-esteem, and they learn new social skills that stay with them for a lifetime.

Camp Air America is located on Lake Stahahe in the 46,000 wooded acres of Harriman State Park, providing Bronx youth with a near wilderness experience just 40 miles from New York City. "

The illegal activity was done by individuals no longer affiliated with either Air America or the Boys and Girls club. Not Al Franken. They appear to be completely open about the case and also doing things for the organization that you feel they've terrorized. What is your point?

Camp Air America
http://www.morningsedition.com
"The facts, the fury, the funny: Morning Sedition"

Morning Sedition will be helping to raise money for Camp Air America this June and July.

Morning Sedition airs every weekday morning on Air America (1190AM in New York) from 6-9.Hosted by Marc Maron and Mark Riley

Morning Sedition brings you the day's news, the progressive take on the day's news and some really funny comedy.

I wish people wouldn't use blogs as a source for news.

http://myspace-740.vo.llnwd.net/00009/04/71/9691740_m.gif

Look--here's the entire article. (I know I'm breaking fair use rules, but this seems to be the only way to defuse this stupid accusation.)
A Bronx congressman yesterday praised the smooth takeover of dozens of programs serving thousands of youngsters and seniors across the borough after the city yanked funding from two sponsoring agencies that have come under a cloud.

The nonprofit Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club and its affiliate Pathways for Youth found their city contracts, running into the millions of dollars, abruptly ended last month by the city Department of Investigation.

The city quickly brought in outside agencies on one-year contracts to run the programs, including the Jewish Association for Seniors for Aged and the Police Athletic League, with in-place workers kept on the job pending individual evaluations.

Rep. Joseph Crowley, who has secured more than $500,000 in federal funding for Gloria Wise programs in the the past few years, said he and his staff "have spent countless hours" working with the city, the Co-op City community where a number of the programs are based, other Bronx elected officials and the new contractors.

He praised the city for what he called "an apparently seamless transfer of contracts" that have kept all the programs up and running without interruption for an estimated 20,000 or so youngsters, handicapped individuals and seniors.

"What is paramount is that they are maintaining the programs," he said. "This is a work in progress."

Crowley (D-Bronx, Queens) said he was "totally shocked - shocked is an understatement" when news of the loss of funding first broke.

He said he and other elected officials are still in the dark over the exact nature of the probe.

In its initial announcement, the DOI said it was probing allegations that program officials "approved significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various city agencies."

According to published reports, the allegations involve Charles Rosen, the founder of Gloria Wise who has stepped down as executive director, investing city contract funds in Air America Radio, the liberal talk radio network.

Evan Cohen, Air America's former chairman, had served as Gloria Wise's director of development.
There are two mentions of Air America Radio in the article, and they only refer to the fact that the two people accused of wrongdoing formerly had an affiliation with the company. That's a far cry from "Air America steals money from kids."

But then again, the right-wing hacks around here don't care about that. They're all bullshit, all the time, which is to be expected, since that's all they've got.

And by the way--to everyone who figured Air America would go belly-up in a couple of months, they're over 65 stations now and in some markets, are beating the right-wing competition, including Limbaugh. So much for being DOA. :rolleyes:

p.s. Conservative programs have their party-biased hacks as well. I, personally, would put Tucker Carlson and Ann Coulter on that list.
I feel I must give credit where it's due--Ann Coulter got something right the other night on Hannity and Colmes. She was talking to Brent Bozell and said of the Roberts nomination that Bush should have gone even more conservative because--and I'm quoting here--"We've got the media now." Ann, when you're right, you're right. It doesn't happen often, but I have to take my hat off to you when you do it.

I feel I must give credit where it's due--Ann Coulter got something right the other night on Hannity and Colmes. She was talking to Brent Bozell and said of the Roberts nomination that Bush should have gone even more conservative because--and I'm quoting here--"We've got the media now." Ann, when you're right, you're right. It doesn't happen often, but I have to take my hat off to you when you do it.
I think I hear the unmistakable sound of an elephant backing off.

I wish people wouldn't use blogs as a source for news.

AMEN

I feel I must give credit where it's due--Ann Coulter got something right the other night on Hannity and Colmes. She was talking to Brent Bozell and said of the Roberts nomination that Bush should have gone even more conservative because--and I'm quoting here--"We've got the media now." Ann, when you're right, you're right. It doesn't happen often, but I have to take my hat off to you when you do it.

Don't get me wrong... hacks can be correct, be they conservative, liberal, or bananas. But that doesn't change that they're hacks and therefore uncredible.

I just wish there was more backbone to this false story. It's fun to inform the misinformed.

This just keeps getting better and better.

It might begin to look something like:
Tax free donations to Gloria Wise wind up funding Air America or paying Al Franken's $1 million/yr. salary.
Notice that Al "Transparency" Franken hasn't said anything. That's probably the smart thing to do at this point. Al's hip deep in this, don't want to build the prosecutions case for them, right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This just keeps getting better and better.

It might begin to look something like:
Tax free donations to Gloria Wise wind up funding Air America or paying Al Franken's $1 million/yr. salary.
Notice that Al "Transparency" Franken hasn't said anything. That's probably the smart thing to do at this point. Al's hip deep in this, don't want to build the prosecutions case for them, right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Although I have not bothered to look for a Franken quote, may I ask you why he needs to give one? AA has spokespeople and it is their job to do that, and they have in the articles that have been posted above.

I will agree with you tangently that the pay these guys are getting is extreme considering that the station is in a financial crisis. However, the accusations you are making, that AA is inherently evil and that Franken is some greedy Jew who likes to steal from children, are ridiculous.

I will agree with you tangently that the pay these guys are getting is extreme considering that the station is in a financial crisis. However, the accusations you are making, that AA is inherently evil and that Franken is some greedy Jew who likes to steal from children, are ridiculous.

Just want to set the record straight, YOU are the only one who has brought Al Franken's ethnicity into this thread.
I've never once referred to his ethnicity, implicitly or explicitly, because it's completely irrelevant.

This just keeps getting better and better.

It might begin to look something like:
Tax free donations to Gloria Wise wind up funding Air America or paying Al Franken's $1 million/yr. salary.
Notice that Al "Transparency" Franken hasn't said anything. That's probably the smart thing to do at this point. Al's hip deep in this, don't want to build the prosecutions case for them, right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Way to avoid every point made against you in this thread. How is this Al Franken's responsibility at all? Also, how do you know that he hasn't spoken about this? Am I to believe that you listen to his show? And if you're getting all your views from Right Wing bloggers (I assume your information comes from bloggers because all the things which you have said seem to come almost verbatim from the few bloggers I've found which are interested in this) what sort of credibility are you going after? Any at all?
Air America has been utterly transparent about this. Air America is raising money for the club. There seems to be an investigation into the two individuals involved in the "scandal." What is your argument?

Although I have not bothered to look for a Franken quote, may I ask you why he needs to give one? AA has spokespeople and it is their job to do that, and they have in the articles that have been posted above.

I will agree with you tangently that the pay these guys are getting is extreme considering that the station is in a financial crisis. However, the accusations you are making, that AA is inherently evil and that Franken is some greedy Jew who likes to steal from children, are ridiculous.
Except that the "station" isn't in crisis in the least. Air America Radio is doing quite well financially and in the ratings in the markets where they're competing. They've been on the air for what--a year? and they're neck and neck with Limbaugh in more than one market, and he's been on for more than ten years. What more do you want from them?

Just want to set the record straight, YOU are the only one who has brought Al Franken's ethnicity into this thread.
I've never once referred to his ethnicity, implicitly or explicitly, because it's completely irrelevant.

Yes, it is offensive to make disgraceful and baseless accusations against people.

Have you learned anything from my little exercise?

It's a little something something we call "trolling" - makes a guy wanna smack a guy upside the head

Why aren't you all investigating all of this yourselves? Why do I have to answer 30-40 questions you are all throwing at me. Why don't you go find your own answers?

You keep asking about proof that DSM and Plame-Out are BS. Here it is:

Valerie Plame wasn't undercover at the time she was outed. NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED. The news media (CBSNBCABCNYT, AP, Reuters, etc.) filed an amicus brief on behalf of the 2 reporters and they stated in that brief NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITTED because Plame wasn't undercover and hadn't been for more than 5 years. Why is that so hard to understand?
Her pompous wind bag of a husband wrote an op-ed about his trip to Niger for the NYT wherein he stated the story he was sent to investigate was false. When he testified before the Senate-UNDER OATH-he said the opposite. He said in his book that his wife had nothing to dso woth sending him there. It turns out she did. He has 0 credibility now, yet you people cling to this story like it's your wooby blanket. LET IT GO!

The Downing Street MEMO. Not even a letter! It was a semi-official NOTE from some guy who was telling Blair,"Hey this is what I heard." The fact that another MEMO from the same time stated the exact opposite completely escapes your superior intellects and fact finding capabilities. I am very disappointed such brilliance has been sidetracked by such meaningless interoffice correspondence. LET IT GO! Free your minds to cure cancer or AIDS. PLEASE?! We need you focused.

One of my intellectual betters said that I was getting all of my info from 'right wing blogs'. I have been but apparently they are the only ones interested in this story. I see CNN picked up on it yesterday but that's about it beyond the story I quoted in my first post and some minor NYC rags.

Now back to the thread. Why haven't they given the money back yet? What was Al's role in all of this? I'd like to know but apparently that's too much for the great minds to ponder. He is the marquee shithead at that place, seems like he'd have something to say about it don't you all think? He's been there from the get go right? What does Al know and when did Al know it?

Why aren't you all investigating all of this yourselves? Why do I have to answer 30-40 questions you are all throwing at me. Why don't you go find your own answers?

You keep asking about proof that DSM and Plame-Out are BS. Here it is:

Valerie Plame wasn't undercover at the time she was outed. NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED. The news media (CBSNBCABCNYT, AP, Reuters, etc.) filed an amicus brief on behalf of the 2 reporters and they stated in that brief NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITTED because Plame wasn't undercover and hadn't been for more than 5 years. Why is that so hard to understand?
Her pompous wind bag of a husband wrote an op-ed about his trip to Niger for the NYT wherein he stated the story he was sent to investigate was false. When he testified before the Senate-UNDER OATH-he said the opposite. He said in his book that his wife had nothing to dso woth sending him there. It turns out she did. He has 0 credibility now, yet you people cling to this story like it's your wooby blanket. LET IT GO!

The Downing Street MEMO. Not even a letter! It was a semi-official NOTE from some guy who was telling Blair,"Hey this is what I heard." The fact that another MEMO from the same time stated the exact opposite completely escapes your superior intellects and fact finding capabilities. I am very disappointed such brilliance has been sidetracked by such meaningless interoffice correspondence. LET IT GO! Free your minds to cure cancer or AIDS. PLEASE?! We need you focused.

One of my intellectual betters said that I was getting all of my info from 'right wing blogs'. I have been but apparently they are the only ones interested in this story. I see CNN picked up on it yesterday but that's about it beyond the story I quoted in my first post and some minor NYC rags.

Now back to the thread. Why haven't they given the money back yet? What was Al's role in all of this? I'd like to know but apparently that's too much for the great minds to ponder. He is the marquee shithead at that place, seems like he'd have something to say about it don't you all think? He's been there from the get go right? What does Al know and when did Al know it?

So you aren't going to offer proof, just more talking points from your favorite right wing blogospheres? Okay - that settles everything then, the on-going investigation into the Plame-Out and DSM should just be dropped since you figured it all out already.

Re: Air America and Al franken - Why are you so anxious to pin this on Al? Why are you asking us what Al's part in this is? Why aren't you investigating all of this yourself? Why do we have to answer 30-40 questions you are throwing at us? Why don't you go find your own answers?

You want proof? Try Google and type in - plame amicus brief.

Then, after you've noticed that all the media orgs that have been hyping this non story knew that it was a non story to begin with, you might not be so dismissive about blogs.

I'm not trying to pin this on anyone. Al Franken has an opinion on everything, why doesn't he have an opinion on this story?

Those issues are hardly settled yet. For everything you find saying that she wasn't undercover, you find another one saying that she was. So I wouldn't be so damn sure of that. She did work for a CIA front company and several people have already acknowledged that she was what they call a "Non-Official Cover", which means that she was not with the diplomatic service and was trained to disavow any connection with the government if caught.

The part about her sending her husband (a veteran diplomat, not to mention a lifelong republican up to this point) to Iraq in a sinister plot to undermine the war effort is without any evidence and ludicrous.

You want proof? Try Google and type in - plame amicus brief.

Then, after you've noticed that all the media orgs that have been hyping this non story knew that it was a non story to begin with, you might not be so dismissive about blogs.

I'm not trying to pin this on anyone. Al Franken has an opinion on everything, why doesn't he have an opinion on this story?


LOL - you are a card! how did I hijack your thread? That would be like me starting a thread titled "Cheese, natures silent killer" and posting an article about it then going on about how Bush is a proven liar and capitalism proven to be a failure, but you cannot respond to that... only talk about cheese.

Air America has already said they would pay back the money. Why should they do it on your timeline? That kinda money sure is easy to come by isn't it? :rolleyes: WHy should Al Franken make a public statement about something that he had no hand in? You really are reaching here.

And why was Judith Miller put in jail if there is no basis to the Plame story? You really need to come back to reality - we need your intellect that seems to have gone missing to help solve world hunger and the AIDS problem.

Those issues are hardly settled yet. For everything you find saying that she wasn't undercover, you find another one saying that she was. So I wouldn't be so damn sure of that. She did work for a CIA front company and several people have already acknowledged that she was what they call a "Non-Official Cover", which means that she was not with the diplomatic service and was trained to disavow any connection with the government if caught.
She was outed TWICE! I swear, you people demand proof and then when it's given, you want more.
HERE IS MORE:
The amicus brief says that the first time she was outed in the mid-1990's by a Russian spy.
The second time she was accidentally outed by the CIA. They, the Media,(the people who filed the brief on behalf of the reporters Miller and Cooper) quote from a Bill Gertz article that states that some classified documents were being routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana and "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."
Don't you get it yet? The Media KNEW ALL OF THIS AND THEY STILL TRIED TO PIN IT ON ROVE! THE MEDIA LIED TO YOU! They've made you look like idiots for believing them. How does that make you feel?
The part about her sending her husband (a veteran diplomat, not to mention a lifelong republican up to this point) to Iraq in a sinister plot to undermine the war effort is without any evidence and ludicrous.
You have no clue what you're talking about do you? Just move on. He implied he was sent by VP Cheney and said his wife had nothing to do with it. Documents have since been uncovered stating that his wife was lobbying for him exclusively to go. He's a clown, a fraud, a liar. You do yourself a disservice by implying anything else.

She was outed TWICE! I swear, you people demand proof and then when it's given, you want more.
HERE IS MORE:
The amicus brief says that the first time she was outed in the mid-1990's by a Russian spy.
The second time she was accidentally outed by the CIA. They, the Media,(the people who filed the brief on behalf of the reporters Miller and Cooper) quote from a Bill Gertz article that states that some classified documents were being routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana and "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."
Don't you get it yet? The Media KNEW ALL OF THIS AND THEY STILL TRIED TO PIN IT ON ROVE! THE MEDIA LIED TO YOU! They've made you look like idiots for believing them. How does that make you feel?


Not really. It's still illegal to out an undercover agent, even if it weren't the first time that it happened.

By the way, I have tried to be reasonable here but you are a total blowhard and the kind of people that give right wing douchebags a bad name. You are also an astonishing brand of hypocrite who thinks that Rove should get off the hook because he outed an undercover agent who had accidentally been outed 15 years ago, but Al Franken should have to answer because an investor is his business did something illegal once. Basically, you are a disgusting human being and not worthy of a debate at all.

Air America has already said they would pay back the money. Why should they do it on your timeline?
How about because the charity foundation is shut down for lack of funding?How about because it's the charities money and they want it back? It's an investment right? They haven't paid them back and they never will. The money is gone. Air America is on its last legs and they won't have to pay back a dime once Piquant goes belly up.

WHy should Al Franken make a public statement about something that he had no hand in? You really are reaching here
Who says he had nothing to do with it? Has that been established? If it has, give me some proof. He's been there from the start.

And why was Judith Miller put in jail if there is no basis to the Plame story?
Ever hear of contempt of court. She won't reveal her sources and that's all it takes when you defy a court order. The source she's protecting isn't Rove because he's already signed a release stating she could tell everything she knows about their converstion.

How about because the charity foundation is shut down for lack of funding?How about because it's the charities money and they want it back? It's an investment right? They haven't paid them back and they never will. The money is gone. Air America is on its last legs and they won't have to pay back a dime once Piquant goes belly up.

Who says he had nothing to do with it? Has that been established? If it has, give me some proof. He's been there from the start.


Ever hear of contempt of court. She won't reveal her sources and that's all it takes when you defy a court order. The source she's protecting isn't Rove because he's already signed a release stating she could tell everything she knows about their converstion.


lol OMG the last poster was right - you aren't worthy of debate. But since I'm stubborn I'll continue anyway. I'm sorry that you are so full of hate for Al Franken who has no part of this. If he did have a part in it why isn't his name mentioned in ANYTHING connected with this 'story'? I don't need to give you proof that Al Franken had no part in it (although the lack of his name beign mentioned should be proof enough *I win* ), YOU need to give proof that he did. Your opinion isn't proof. Link him to it with FACTS (ever hear of those?). You cant? Geez, go figure.

So this Judith Miller is now jailed for contempt of court for not revealing her source for something that noone ever did wrong? I like to smoke a little pot every once in a while too man, but everything in moderation.

How about because the charity foundation is shut down for lack of funding?How about because it's the charities money and they want it back? It's an investment right? They haven't paid them back and they never will. The money is gone. Air America is on its last legs and they won't have to pay back a dime once Piquant goes belly up.


Who says he had nothing to do with it? Has that been established? If it has, give me some proof. He's been there from the start.


Ever hear of contempt of court. She won't reveal her sources and that's all it takes when you defy a court order. The source she's protecting isn't Rove because he's already signed a release stating she could tell everything she knows about their converstion.

The charity was not shut down. Understand? You can go to their website which I provided a link to. The charity is also working with Air America. Why would they be working with a company that has so horrendously wronged them?
Is the issue about Plame? Is that what you wanted to talk about when you started a thread about Air America? Because that is not how you approach a topic on Plame. Plame wasn't undercover when she was outed so Air America stole money. That's what I'm getting from you here and it makes my head hurt.
I don't think I'm your intellectual superior but you are saying rather dumb things.

So this Judith Miller is now jailed for contempt of court for not revealing her source for something that noone ever did wrong? I like to smoke a little pot every once in a while too man, but everything in moderation.Do you know what a Grand Jury is?

Just in case you don't-Grand Juries aren't court trials. They are hearings meant to determine if there should be a trial. They subpoena people to appear before them and tell what they know and then decide if, based upon the evidence gathered, there should be any indictments.

Judith Miller won't divulge her sources so she's in contempt of court.
Does that clear things up for you? An apology would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. After all, you are soooo much smarter than me.

I really have nothing against Al, I just want him to make a statement. That's all. You're turning my lighthearted jokes into my having some sort of vendetta against the man.

Hmmm--unwillingness to listen to anything beyond his own long-since-discredited talking points and a short post history. I think I smell either a formerly-deleted troll or a puppet here.

Do you know what a Grand Jury is?

Just in case you don't-Grand Juries aren't court trials. They are hearings meant to determine if there should be a trial. They subpoena people to appear before them and tell what they know and then decide if, based upon the evidence gathered, there should be any indictments.

Judith Miller won't divulge her sources so she's in contempt of court.
Does that clear things up for you? An apology would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. After all, you are soooo much smarter than me.

I really have nothing against Al, I just want him to make a statement. That's all. You're turning my lighthearted jokes into my having some sort of vendetta against the man.
What would he say that would make you feel better? A better question though, is why would he say anything? There is no story here because it is a problem currently being solved. The bad guy (Evan Cohen) in this is being investigated. The bad guy is not Al Franken. And if Air America is in such a bad position financially, why would a charity organization have lent them the money in the first place? I think I read it either in this thread or in another article that loaning money to an organization that had no hopes of even turning a profit over the next two years isn't exactly the smartest investment. Could it be that they loaned the money on good faith because they wanted their organization connected to the ideas presented on Air America. In my opinion, they didn't make such a bad choice after all. The issue is being resolved.

Hmmm--unwillingness to listen to anything beyond his own long-since-discredited talking points and a short post history. I think I smell either a formerly-deleted troll or a puppet here.
He's also weirdly hung up on everyone acting smarter than him. All I've done is Google things. If that's what it takes to be smart then... uh... wow.

By the way, folks--it might help you to understand this "story" (and I'm using the scare tactics intentionally) if you realize that the DoI, cited in the original news piece that I quoted in its entirety on page 2 or thereabouts, has absolutely no information available about this so-called investigation, not even the basic confirmation that there's an investigation going on. In short, the DoI has not confirmed that there's an investigation, and in fact, there's no mention in any of the news stories thus far that even hints that they've been asked about it.

To say this is thin is to give it unwarranted credit for existing in the first place.

Now I'm not saying that Cohen, et al, aren't being investigated for wrongdoing--they may be--but there's no confirmation of that in any of these "stories." This is rumor and innuendo mixed in with a healthy dose of bullshit, and anyone with a half-decent detector ought to be able to see through it at first glance. That Southaustin has not is indicative of his/her blind ideology at play, assuming that he/she isn't just a troll looking to start some shit.

By the way, folks--it might help you to understand this "story" (and I'm using the scare tactics intentionally) if you realize that the DoI, cited in the original news piece that I quoted in its entirety on page 2 or thereabouts, has absolutely no information available about this so-called investigation, not even the basic confirmation that there's an investigation going on. In short, the DoI has not confirmed that there's an investigation, and in fact, there's no mention in any of the news stories thus far that even hints that they've been asked about it.

To say this is thin is to give it unwarranted credit for existing in the first place.

Now I'm not saying that Cohen, et al, aren't being investigated for wrongdoing--they may be--but there's no confirmation of that in any of these "stories." This is rumor and innuendo mixed in with a healthy dose of bullshit, and anyone with a half-decent detector ought to be able to see through it at first glance. That Southaustin has not is indicative of his/her blind ideology at play, assuming that he/she isn't just a troll looking to start some shit.

This from the NY DAILY NEWS STORY (http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/331339p-283184c.html) I put up in post #1
In its initial announcement, the DOI said it was probing allegations that program officials "approved significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various city agencies."

You are so ridiculous. All of you. You pull things out of thin air, accuse me of having some sort of grudge against Al Franken). I refute your lame ass arguments and you continue to obfuscate the issues. Presenting you with cold hard facts isn't enough because your minds are closed. The world is one way and this story doesn't fit that plot line so you all have to invent lies to make it so. This story is getting attention now and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's as amusing as it is pathetic-VERY. HAHAHAHA

The article makes two claims about the DoI investigation, neither of which it backs up. Can we have a DoI spokesperson's name, perhaps? And about those "published accounts"--where exactly were they published? How credible is the source of those published accounts?

Listen, dipshit--your attacks on this story are unwarranted, and it's not my fault that you've got your head so far up your ass with left-wing hatred to notice. I will, however, not hesitate to smack you in the head with reality even though you may refuse to acknowledge it.

And not to get too far off the beaten path, but your earlier comments about the Plame outing case--and it is a criminal case--and the Downing Street Minutes show just how far from reality you're willing to venture. So please, spare me your pathetic attempts to tie Air America Radio to an investigation that you can't even confirm is ongoing.

She was outed TWICE! I swear, you people demand proof and then when it's given, you want more.
HERE IS MORE:
The amicus brief says that the first time she was outed in the mid-1990's by a Russian spy.


And that Russian spy has a talk show and told the world? The fact that the information while known by someone has no bearing on her still being under-cover or not because it was not openly known and she wasn't spying against Russians or Russian interests. If anyone there knew who would they have told?


The second time she was accidentally outed by the CIA. They, the Media,(the people who filed the brief on behalf of the reporters Miller and Cooper) quote from a Bill Gertz article that states that some classified documents were being routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana and "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."
Don't you get it yet? The Media KNEW ALL OF THIS AND THEY STILL TRIED TO PIN IT ON ROVE! THE MEDIA LIED TO YOU! They've made you look like idiots for believing them. How does that make you feel?


Actually it says they may have read the briefs. But again, who the heck do you think they told? It's not like there is some hive mind where they communicate all this information. And do you think Karl Rove knew anyone of this when he leaked the information to Cooper?


You have no clue what you're talking about do you? Just move on. He implied he was sent by VP Cheney and said his wife had nothing to do with it. Documents have since been uncovered stating that his wife was lobbying for him exclusively to go. He's a clown, a fraud, a liar. You do yourself a disservice by implying anything else.


Actually no, he stated rather clearly that he was sent there by the CIA after Cheney's office sent questions to the CIA about the Uranium in Niger. Maybe you should read this (http://mediamatters.org/items/200507140001#20050715)?


In order to defend Rove's mention of "Wilson's wife" to Cooper, the RNC sought to demonstrate that Rove had reason to believe that Cooper would falsely report that Cheney sent Wilson on the Niger trip, and that Rove needed to set the record straight by telling Cooper that Plame had actually authorized the trip, as Rove's lawyer has claimed. In an attempt to suggest that public statements made by Wilson had led Cooper to believe that Cheney authorized the trip, the RNC misrepresented a July 6, 2003, op-ed by Wilson in The New York Times and distorted a remark from Wilson in an August 3, 2003, interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer -- made after Rove discussed Plame with Cooper and therefore could not have been a basis for Rove's purported concern -- to assert that "Wilson falsely claimed that it was Vice President Cheney who sent him to Niger."

The RNC cited Wilson's Times op-ed as evidence that he claimed Cheney sent him to Niger. But the op-ed actually noted that it was "agency officials" from the CIA who "asked if I would travel to Niger" to answer questions Cheney's office had about a particular intelligence report:

In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake -- a form of lightly processed ore -- by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office.

The RNC then distorted Wilson's appearance on CNN's Late Edition by excluding a crucial portion of his remarks in which he noted that "it's absolutely true" that Cheney was unaware that Wilson was traveling to Niger and reiterated that the "CIA, at the operational level, made a determination" to send Wilson to answer a "serious question" posed by Cheney's office.

Additionally, Rove's conversation with Cooper took place on July 11, 2003 -- more than three weeks before Wilson's CNN appearance -- so it is chronologically impossible for Rove to have been refuting a statement that Wilson hadn't made yet, as Salon.com has pointed out.

From the RNC talking points:

Joe Wilson: "What They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby's Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ..." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/3/03)


But I'm sure those facts won't matter to you either.


Naginah

This from the NY DAILY NEWS STORY (http://www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/331339p-283184c.html) I put up in post #1


You are so ridiculous. All of you. You pull things out of thin air, accuse me of having some sort of grudge against Al Franken). I refute your lame ass arguments and you continue to obfuscate the issues. Presenting you with cold hard facts isn't enough because your minds are closed. The world is one way and this story doesn't fit that plot line so you all have to invent lies to make it so. This story is getting attention now and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's as amusing as it is pathetic-VERY. HAHAHAHA

We've made various points to disprove you and your "light hearted" comments. What evidence do you have that Air America is not providing money to the charity? By viewing both websites you can easily see that Air America is providing money to the charity. Also, how are we supposed to take your comments as "light hearted"? Please, read your thread topic and tell me in what way we are supposed to take anything you say to support such a belligerent statement as "light hearted". You raise more questions about your ability to understand the topic you chose to write about each time you post. Please.

Actually I was wrong. It seems the camp has been closed down.
https://www.news12.com/BX/topstories/article?id=148556
Gloria Wise Community Center closes but its programs live on


Play the video (07/25/05) The Bronx - The Gloria Wise Community Center may have closed but other organizations are working to keep some of the center’s programs alive.

The Jewish Association for Services for the Ages (JASA) is extending its community involvement by taking over Gloria Wise’s senior programs and the handicapped adult association program.

The Gloria Wise Community Center offered programs for Bronx residents ranging from early pre-school age to the more mature senior citizen

The center was closed after an investigation revealed it made inappropriate transactions and falsified documents.

This makes no mention of Air America and actually leans to the center itself making inappropriate money transactions. Funny.

I just reread that post and this guy actually talks about this like "The Media" is this monolithic entity. Jesus christ. Far too much time has been spent arguing with this joker.

Hey Right Wingers! Look over there! A commie is getting a blow job!*

*there, that should keep them distracted enough to not post idiotic and easily refuted stories.

Oh, and the Plame case is over and no one told me? Jeez. I think someone should tell special prosecutor Fitzgerald that he's wasting the tax payer's money. Man, the Republican run CIA and the Republican run Justice Dept. sure are working hard to nail false charges on a Republican or five. God, how can you conservatives support them throwing your money away like that?

Hey Right Wingers! Look over there! A commie is getting a blow job!*

*there, that should keep them distracted enough to not post idiotic and easily refuted stories.

I wonder what he had to promise her...


Oh, and the Plame case is over and no one told me? Jeez. I think someone should tell special prosecutor Fitzgerald that he's wasting the tax payer's money. Man, the Republican run CIA and the Republican run Justice Dept. sure are working hard to nail false charges on a Republican or five. God, how can you conservatives support them throwing your money away like that?

Interesting to see a Justice Dept. and CIA that aren't totally consumed with making the President look good,(at the expense of doing their jobs) isn't it? It's called having 'clean' agencies that aren't just footsoldiers for the ruling party. Maybe someday, you Leftists will figure out that you don't have to cover for every one of your own corrupt officials by abusing National Command Authority.

Nah. Nevergonnahappen.

I wonder what he had to promise her...



Interesting to see a Justice Dept. and CIA that aren't totally consumed with making the President look good,(at the expense of doing their jobs) isn't it? It's called having 'clean' agencies that aren't just footsoldiers for the ruling party. Maybe someday, you Leftists will figure out that you don't have to cover for every one of your own corrupt officials by abusing National Command Authority.

Nah. Nevergonnahappen.

Lol. Why do all Right Wingers argue like this? It's never about them. Their mistakes and corruption never matter, since there's always someone somewhere to blame.

But, I guess since you affirm that the CIA and Justice Dept are clean, then you must be of the belief that there is something to the Plame case.

I just reread that post and this guy actually talks about this like "The Media" is this monolithic entity. Jesus christ. Far too much time has been spent arguing with this joker.
Even though I haven't been posting in this thread I have been following it--I still kinda feel like there's a fishhook in my cheek...

Even though I haven't been posting in this thread I have been following it--I still kinda feel like there's a fishhook in my cheek...
The car accident effect claims yet another victim. :D

And by the way--to everyone who figured Air America would go belly-up in a couple of months, they're over 65 stations now and in some markets, are beating the right-wing competition, including Limbaugh. So much for being DOA. :rolleyes:
That's actually a good thing for all talk radio. It keeps the Dems from trying to bring back the "Fair Use" rules that plagued free speech in the '70s.

By the way, folks--it might help you to understand this "story" (and I'm using the scare tactics intentionally) if you realize that the DoI, cited in the original news piece that I quoted in its entirety on page 2 or thereabouts, has absolutely no information available about this so-called investigation, not even the basic confirmation that there's an investigation going on. In short, the DoI has not confirmed that there's an investigation, and in fact, there's no mention in any of the news stories thus far that even hints that they've been asked about it

To say this is thin is to give it unwarranted credit for existing in the first place

Now I'm not saying that Cohen, et al, aren't being investigated for wrongdoing--they may be--but there's no confirmation of that in any of these "stories." This is rumor and innuendo mixed in with a healthy dose of bullshit, and anyone with a half-decent detector ought to be able to see through it at first glance. That Southaustin has not is indicative of his/her blind ideology at play, assuming that he/she isn't just a troll looking to start some shit.
Here is a link to the New York City Dept. of Investigation (http://www.nyc.com/go.aspx?bkurl=%2fgovernment%2fthe_department_of_investigation.aspx&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nyc.gov%2fhtml%2fdoi%2fhome.html&s=11&n=Department+of+Investigation&sn=Department+of+Investigation) from June 24, 2005 stating that Gloria Wise has been determined to be 'Non Responsible Vendors'.
From the press release:
Today, it is announced that the Department of Youth and Community Development (DYCD), has sent a letter to the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club, Inc., and its affiliate, the Pathways for Youth Boys & Girls Club, stating that the Bronx-based not-for-profits have been determined to be Non-Responsible City contractors in connection with several recently submitted contract proposals. In these letters, DYCD said its respective Non-Responsibility determinations were based on an on-going investigation by the New York City Department of Investigation concerning allegations that, among other things, officials of Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club approved significant inappropriate transactions and falsified documents that were submitted to various City agencies.
The problem in this whole thing is this:
A $480,000 LOAN was made to Air America Radio: Charles Rosen-the Director of the Gloria Wise Club & Evan Cohen (at that time Chairman of Air America Radio/Progress Media) was on the board of the Gloria Wise Club as well.
Progress Media was bought out by Piquant LLC in May 2004. Piquant LLC is owned by Anita and Sheldon Drobny. This is where things get interesting:

Anita and Sheldon Drobny ALSO OWNED PROGRESS MEDIA. This may be a case of something called 'fraudulent transfer'. EXAMPLE: Mr. A owes a lot of money to Bank C. To get out from under that debt (and keep the money owed), Mr. A sells his company to his friend Mr. B for $1. The Drobny's, the owners of both Progress Media and Piquant, 2 separate entities, sold their company to themselves in order to not pay back the original investors and to get out from under the creditors and investors of Progress Media.

The Drobny's were convicted by the IRS in 1986 for filing a fraudulent tax return in 1979. They set up a tax shelter (research and Development into aloe vera) and claimed losses so that they wouldn't have to pay income tax on them. It seems that no research or development into aloe vera was actually done.

It just keeps on getting better and better.

Here is a link to the New York City Dept. of Investigation (http://www.nyc.com/go.aspx?bkurl=%2fgovernment%2fthe_department_of_investigation.aspx&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.nyc.gov%2fhtml%2fdoi%2fhome.html&s=11&n=Department+of+Investigation&sn=Department+of+Investigation) from June 24, 2005 stating that Gloria Wise has been determined to be 'Non Responsible Vendors'.
From the press release:

The problem in this whole thing is this:
A $480,000 LOAN was made to Air America Radio: Charles Rosen-the Director of the Gloria Wise Club & Evan Cohen (at that time Chairman of Air America Radio/Progress Media) was on the board of the Gloria Wise Club as well.
Progress Media was bought out by Piquant LLC in May 2004. Piquant LLC is owned by Anita and Sheldon Drobny. This is where things get interesting:

Anita and Sheldon Drobny ALSO OWNED PROGRESS MEDIA. This may be a case of something called 'fraudulent transfer'. EXAMPLE: Mr. A owes a lot of money to Bank C. To get out from under that debt (and keep the money owed), Mr. A sells his company to his friend Mr. B for $1. The Drobny's, the owners of both Progress Media and Piquant, 2 separate entities, sold their company to themselves in order to not pay back the original investors and to get out from under the creditors and investors of Progress Media.

The Drobny's were convicted by the IRS in 1986 for filing a fraudulent tax return in 1979. They set up a tax shelter (research and Development into aloe vera) and claimed losses so that they wouldn't have to pay income tax on them. It seems that no research or development into aloe vera was actually done.

It just keeps on getting better and better.

Congratulations! You've posted a detail from a blog's link I posted in post #21!

THANK YOU FRIEND!
Isn't it great that we can work together and piece together the sordid details of this whole pathetic scam.
I still haven't heard anything from Al on this.
You'd think that such a tireless defender of the poor and downtrodden would have said something by now.

LOOK! UP IN THE SKY! IT'S MR. TRANSPARENCY!
No wait. It was just a bird. Oh, Mr. Transparency, where are you when we need you?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

This is a comprehensive assessment of this story to this point from the NEW YORK SUN (http://www.nysun.com/article/17846)

I admit I was wrong in my earlier posts. The sum of money that was loaned was $800,000 and not $480,000. Apparently Mr. Cohen, who was a board member of the Gloria Wise Clubs, viewed it as a personal ATM/health insurance plan.
One of the best deals around since he never withdrew his own money and never had to pay an insurance premium.
I wonder if any of those Alzheimers patients had the same insurance plan?

"The current owners of Air America Radio have no obligation to Progress Media's business activities," the statement read. "We are very disturbed that Air America Radio's good name could be associated with a reduction in services for young people, which is why we agreed months ago to fully compensate the Gloria Wise Boys & Girls Club as a result of this transaction." Like I have posted before, Sheldon and Anita Drobny, who owned and Progress Media and currently own the company that bought out Progress Media-Piqunat LLC-have seemingly tried to walk away from their obligation.
But they're Libs. It's OK because they're Libs and they care more. If they were conservative, ripping off children and old people wouldn't bother them. The Drobny's feel really bad about what they did I'm sure. Everything is OK. Just ignore the whole thing because it has to do with the left's answer to Limbaugh and Hannity. The ends justify the means, right?