NationStates Jolt Archive

Abortion, you were my only friend
when I needed you the most

The others all condemned me
when I balked at being host

To a parasitic clump of cells
the size of a pin head

They claimed that zygote had a soul
an I shouldn't make it dead

So cheers to you my medical pal
you really were a friend

For making sure my future
wouldn't come to a dead end

I can resume my classload now
and buckle down and study

All because of my abortionist pal
my new and bestest buddy.

So far we've a poem, a song, and now an ode to abortion.

I am only here to help.

I dunno, I find the style somewhat fragmented.

And the subject about as inhumanly selfish as I can possibly imagine. I really hope this is a joke, cos it seriously warps my ambivalence on the subject into rigid pro-life fury.

Talk about bad taste.

That ridiculous poem about that baby being aborted made my blood boil.
I don't know if this is in response to it, but well done.
Fucking pro-life arseholes.

I'm expecting a ballad, or perhaps a sonnet, next. Or maybe a haiku.

I dunno, I find the style somewhat fragmented.

And the subject about as inhumanly selfish as I can possibly imagine. I really hope this is a joke, cos it seriously warps my ambivalence on the subject into rigid pro-life fury.
Then you should've read my song about it. :D

There is no Pro-Life, only pro-Choice factions.

One believes you make a choice to kill the child inside you, the other believes you made your choice when you decided to get knocked up.

...I dunno, I find the style somewhat fragmented...

Aw come on... gimme a break... I wrote the thing in less than 4 minutes and in most states I'm legally drunk right now. At least the spelling was mostly right.

Heh, heh... I find it funny how the the "pro-lifers" fight the "pro-choicers."

I, myself, am "anti-choice." I belive no one should get a choice, they should do exactly what I tell them to.

As for those who don't, toward them I am profoundly "anti-life."

Or maybe a haiku.
saline solution
fetus falling outwards now
like flower petals

And I even got to use the classic "falling like flower petals" haiku cliche!

There is no Pro-Life, only pro-Choice factions.

One believes you make a choice to kill the child inside you, the other believes you made your choice when you decided to get knocked up.
You think people take getting an abortion lightly?
Mistakes happen - and with religious people condemning the use of contraception and the morning after pill, mistakes will only happen more often.
Not everyone wants to get married when they are 19 and have 40 children in their lifetime.

saline solution
fetus falling outwards now
like flower petals

And I even got to use the classic "falling like flower petals" haiku cliche!
Sig'd

nice job =P

*copy* *paste* ----> *runs down the street to the copyrighteres office* ---> steals rights ... ---> sells to the pro Abortionists !

Everyone has a choice about what to do with themselves, and no one not god not the church not satan can do anything about it. And if the voices tell you otherwise .. tell them to get stuffed.

Its your choice, not the churches. Keep your religion to yourselves.

We all die and are forgotten within a century. Whether we die now or then is really irrelevant on the grand scheme of things.

And no, I won't kill myself. I'm much too valuable to go commit suicide. Why don't all the people who had the urge to make such a lameass comment (which I have preemptively struck down) kill themselves, as apparently you aren't all that innovative or creative for "sentient" creatures.

You think people take getting an abortion lightly?
Mistakes happen - and with religious people condemning the use of contraception and the morning after pill, mistakes will only happen more often.
Not everyone wants to get married when they are 19 and have 40 children in their lifetime.
Careful buddy. Not all "religious people" are as tough as the Catholics...

Careful buddy. Not all "religious people" are as tough as the Catholics...

Christian Pro-Choicer, reporting in.

And no, I won't kill myself. I'm much too valuable to go commit suicide. Why don't all the people who had the urge to make such a lameass comment (which I have preemptively struck down) kill themselves, as apparently you aren't all that innovative or creative for "sentient" creatures.
I didn't know a $1.99 was that valuable.



That was a good poem, I think you should put it on a birthday card.

I didn't know a $1.99 was that valuable.



That was a good poem, I think you should put it on a birthday card.
I'd send it to my grandmother.
Every year.

Christian Pro-Choicer, reporting in.
Ah, now all shall see the wisdom of nations named after the majestic Penguin!

Ah, now all shall see the wisdom of nations named after the majestic Penguin!
Penguin, Penguin uber alles.

One believes you make a choice to kill the child inside you

If you have a child inside you, then you really ought to kill it. They're too big to try to crawl in there, you know.

Ah, now all shall see the wisdom of nations named after the majestic Penguin!

I love penguins! <3

Abortion is legalized baby murder, committed by only the most selfish and encouraged only by the greediest. I seriously encourage you to reevaluate your life. Seriously.

I'm expecting a ballad, or perhaps a sonnet, next. Or maybe a haiku.
(Tanka)
Abortion issues
Pro-lifers and pro-choicers
Both feel they are right
Abort this endless flamefest
For this is a stupid fight

(Tanka)
Abortion issues
Pro-lifers and pro-choicers
Both feel they are right
Abort this endless flamefest
For this is a stupid fight

This is graphic, but I think it would be hard for any pro-abortion supporter to look at this and say this should remain legal. I should warn that this picture is pretty grotesque, so if you may be offended, please do not look at it, as I am not intent on traumatizing anyone. The photo depicts an aborted child, so be warned.



This isn't worth fighting over? That's not a rhetorical question.

I hate to do this, BT, but I'm sick of you. I'm putting you on my ignore list.

Ignoring it won't change it, but ok.

Heh. Funny.

Not as funny as an actual abortion, but still funny.

I hate to do this, BT, but I'm sick of you. I'm putting you on my ignore list.

Of course, because thats a mature thing to do when presented with an opinion you dont agree with. Pretend it doesnt exist, very mature

Of course, because thats a mature thing to do when presented with an opinion you dont agree with. Pretend it doesnt exist, very mature
Brians Test has been trying my patience since he started posting in this forum. I'm sick of it.

Now this thread is trolling with style.

Of course, because thats a mature thing to do when presented with an opinion you dont agree with. Pretend it doesnt exist, very mature

For all we know, she's had an abortion and the picture made her feel guilty.

Regardless, I take it as a compliment because I feel like she has effectively said "I can no longer construct a rational argument to dispute you." At least, I think that's how one would normally interpret that.

For all we know, she's had an abortion and the picture made her feel guilty.

Regardless, I take it as a compliment because I feel like she has effectively said "I can no longer construct a rational argument to dispute you." At least, I think that's how one would normally interpret that.

Devil's Advocate - Or it means that you are in fact really annoying to the point that someone would shield themselves from you.

Of course I don't know you, so I'm just playing devil's advocate. Though I hope that was obvious. I did preface my statement with "Devil's advocate," after all.

On the thread, I'm just glad that we have people taking the subject with humor. You never can have too much humor. Ever.

nice job =P


Everyone has a choice about what to do with themselves, and no one not god not the church not satan can do anything about it. And if the voices tell you otherwise .. tell them to get stuffed.


Should we legalise murder then?Since it's up to people whether they murder or not.

On the thread, I'm just glad that we have people taking the subject with humor. You never can have too much humor. Ever.

I'd say laffing at a dead baby is too much.

You make me sick!

Should we legalise murder then?Since it's up to people whether they murder or not.
You can't legalize murder. That's a contradiction of terms, an oxymoron.

You can't legalize murder. That's a contradiction of terms, an oxymoron.

First, I totally understand what you're saying. Murder is the unlawful killing of a person and, since abortion is legal, it's not unlawful and can't be murder--at least, I presume that's your logic.

When we say that abortion is murder, we mean that it's unjustified and therefore goes against the common law, natural law, and/or God's law. k?

This is graphic, but I think it would be hard for any pro-abortion supporter to look at this and say this should remain legal. I should warn that this picture is pretty grotesque, so if you may be offended, please do not look at it, as I am not intent on traumatizing anyone. The photo depicts an aborted child, so be warned.


This isn't worth fighting over? That's not a rhetorical question.

I've seen far worse. Ever seen any of the suicide pics over at rotten.com? That picture you posted is nothing.

And so what? Nobody has ever claimed abortion is a procedure accompanied by rainbows and flowers. Of course it's physically disgusting, but you know what else is disgusting? Not having a choice, forcing pregnant women who can't afford their pregnancy out on the street, or forcing someone who was raped to carry the child of the rapist. That's whats disgusting, not a shriveled head in a jar.

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then
There are those that follow Mohammad, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on,
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came, because

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs,
On the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine, and mine, and mine.

Let the pagans spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Ah, if only I could stop people from driving by showing incredibly graphic images of those killed in car accidents.
The dead-baby-pictures is a heartstring tug argument. Ethical discussion doesn't need illustration. Just as being pretty doesn't make something right, being ugly doesn't make something wrong.

You make me sick!
http://img.epinions.com/images/ext/well/482/wellMedicineOTCAllPepto_Bismol_Original_Formula_Liquid.jpg?

This is graphic, but I think it would be hard for any pro-abortion supporter to look at this and say this should remain legal. I should warn that this picture is pretty grotesque, so if you may be offended, please do not look at it, as I am not intent on traumatizing anyone. The photo depicts an aborted child, so be warned.



This isn't worth fighting over? That's not a rhetorical question.

That's disgusting. As a pro-choicer, I knew I didn't want to look, but did. If I'm going to advocate something I should understand it to the best of my ability, gory as it may be.

I'm still pro-choice. I don't know the full situation of that abortion, perhaps the mothers life was in danger? Should we show photos of mothers who have died during childbirth?

I would like to also point out that not all pro-choice people are entirely black and white about it. I believe that at the moment of conception the potential-child is not yet a human with human feelings or thoughts. At some point it becomes one. There is a gray area between those two points. To my mind, at least, the longer you wait before having an abortion the more morally grey it becomes.

My problem with this whole argument is that people on both sides are emotive. They're arguing from emotions, and while it's good to take emotions into account, it does not provide for a very *logical* solution.
Talking about a collection of cells that hasn't yet formed as a child is entirely incorrect, just as talking about a preschooler as a master of theoretical mathematics is incorrect.
Talking about the collection of cells as nothing more than an unwanted paraside (despite the similarities to some peoples mind) is incorrect.

Talking about the collection of cells something that will potentially, if left alone and sufficiently nourished, develop into a child is correct to my mind.

What we really need is a common measure of what is "good" and what is "bad" so we can decide which solution leads to more good and less bad. If the pro-lifers say that a potential life is sacred, and the pro-choicers say that a potential life hasn't yet become a thinking child, and therefore is not protected, we don't have common ground, and will never agree. But at least we'll know what we disagree on.

My personal opinions: There are no guarantees about "what if", if the child is never allowed to develop to the stage where it is self-aware, then the damage to the child, not allowing it to live its life, is no worse than the damage to the child that was never conceived (and I think we all agree that you have the right to NOT have sex). I don't have any convictions about the soul, if I believe in a soul, that's my belief, and not the belief of the supposedly-secular state. Each potential-mother should decide if they believe their child has a soul. I do believe that, after making a decision, it is immoral to wait, and not have an abortion as soon as is practical and safe.

My argument comes down to the fact that the only problem I see with an abortion is causing pain to the child. I don't want to cause unnecessary pain. I don't have any more problem with the termination of a non-self-aware animals life than I do with the killing of other non-human animals. Until there is scientific proof, I don't believe that the existance of a soul should make a difference to the argument, as not everyone believes in it.

Can we please try to find some common ground on this, or clearly define the ground that will never be common?

First, I totally understand what you're saying. Murder is the unlawful killing of a person and, since abortion is legal, it's not unlawful and can't be murder--at least, I presume that's your logic.

When we say that abortion is murder, we mean that it's unjustified and therefore goes against the common law, natural law, and/or God's law. k?

Now, I must ask this: How is this unjustified?

I have another question.

Is it murder when a mother bird will throw an egg from her nest when she believes it won't survive after hatching? Is it murder when any other animal will possibly eat it's young because they feel it is too weak to survive in the world?

I have another question.

Is it murder when a mother bird will throw an egg from her nest when she believes it won't survive after hatching? Is it murder when any other animal will possibly eat it's young because they feel it is too weak to survive in the world?
No, because murder, (technically) is a human being killing another unlawfully. Therefore, the animal kingdom doesn't apply.

But, is it not the same thing with humans? Not literally, but you know...the same kind of logic?

This is graphic, but I think it would be hard for any pro-abortion supporter to look at this and say this should remain legal. I should warn that this picture is pretty grotesque, so if you may be offended, please do not look at it, as I am not intent on traumatizing anyone. The photo depicts an aborted child, so be warned.


This isn't worth fighting over? That's not a rhetorical question.
Old meme, man. Every pro-choicer who's been around the block more than once has seen these images. Only the very weakest are swayed from a side by a graphic picture or two. (PS-The pro-life side as a whole curiously does not oppose things like the Iraq War, even when faced with pictures.) Most real grownups recognize that abortion is not about:
1) What the fetus looks like.
2) The "personhood" of the fetus.
but rather the right of the woman to maintain bodily integrity. This position, on which abortion rights are based, is overlooked by BOTH sides. The pro-choice argument for the fetus being a "clump of cells" is irrellevent, as is the pro-life position about the "rights" of the fetus. The rights of the woman are first and foremost.

Edit: Removed offensive picture so as to avoid moderator hammer! Apologies.

But, is it not the same thing with humans? Not literally, but you know...the same kind of logic?
*Shrugs* Perhaps to those on the other side of the arguement, it is the same thing.

For all we know, she's had an abortion and the picture made her feel guilty.

Regardless, I take it as a compliment because I feel like she has effectively said "I can no longer construct a rational argument to dispute you." At least, I think that's how one would normally interpret that.
Bullshit. Offensive fucking bullshit. Show a grisly picture of a victim of war: does this make war unacceptable, always wrong? No.

< edited >

Somebody mentioned humour - you're right. Humour is important. The above is a wee rant, but I'm now laughing at a song I'm listening to. Ahhhh, perspective.

For all we know, she's had an abortion and the picture made her feel guilty.

Regardless, I take it as a compliment because I feel like she has effectively said "I can no longer construct a rational argument to dispute you." At least, I think that's how one would normally interpret that.
I have never had an abortion, and even if I did, I would not feel guilty about it due to any comments you made or images you linked to. That last post was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. I've seen that photo again and again, and others, and you'd already gotten on my nerves several times before. That is why you are on my ignore list.

Are the people making jokes about eating fetuses and microwaving babies the same who claimed to be appalled at the thought of putting that Canadian rapist/serial-killer to death? :rolleyes:

Brian's Test, you are WARNED for linking to extremely graphic material. Do NOT do it again.

Bad taste? I'll give you bad taste:

What's pink, blistery and bangs on the window before exploding?

I baby in a microwave.


[This thread is going to get me banned - I know it.]
Granted.

For all we know, she's had an abortion and the picture made her feel guilty.

Regardless, I take it as a compliment because I feel like she has effectively said "I can no longer construct a rational argument to dispute you." At least, I think that's how one would normally interpret that.

This, sir, is flamebait. Knock it off.

Bad taste? I'll give you bad taste:

What's pink, blistery and bangs on the window before exploding?

I baby in a microwave.


[This thread is going to get me banned - I know it.]
Granted.
Erm, seems harsh in light of other 'punishments'.

Wow, I have never laughed in an abortion thread before. Thanks.

Now, for a Gronde Trademark interjection:

We need the realize that everyone, and I mean everyone, that debates the abortion issue, no matter which side they are on, is debating from a bias point of view. And what is that point of view, you ask? We have all been born already. Everyone, at one point, was just a "clump of cells." Just trying to put things in perspective.

Now am I saying that abortion should be outlawed all together? No. I just think we need to re-think our policy on it. (oh no, I am trying to find common ground! Hit the deck!!)

This, sir, is flamebait. Knock it off.

I respectfully disagree.

I've seen far worse. Ever seen any of the suicide pics over at rotten.com? That picture you posted is nothing.

And so what? Nobody has ever claimed abortion is a procedure accompanied by rainbows and flowers. Of course it's physically disgusting, but you know what else is disgusting? Not having a choice, forcing pregnant women who can't afford their pregnancy out on the street, or forcing someone who was raped to carry the child of the rapist. That's whats disgusting, not a shriveled head in a jar.

I disagree.

Brian's Test, you are WARNED for linking to extremely graphic material. Do NOT do it again.


You got it, boss. I had thought that the disclaimer in the post was so thorough, it would alieve any concerns. But if that sort of stuff doesn't belong on under any circumstances, I respect that and will abide accordingly.

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then
There are those that follow Mohammad, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on,
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came, because

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs,
On the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine, and mine, and mine.

Let the pagans spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

I agree completely. This disgusting murder has been going on for far too long. Infact, even before abortion. Sperm has been wadted for far too long. But now, we have the technology to prevent it. We can not allow masturbation, or even natural sex to occur, because millions of sperm are wasted. Every woman must spend all of her time producing children, which will be conceived by artificially joining a single sperm with an egg. Rape will no longer be considered a crime, because not doing so is a waste of precious sperm. Rapists will instead be held in higher regard than others, because by wasting their sperm and eggs, non rapists are killing far more people than rapists.

If you can't detect the sarcasm, you've probobaly lost faith in humanity. Obviously sperm will be wasted, sperm do not think, they are not human, they are microscopic organisms that have no emotion or awareness. They are inanimate, and a single cow contributes more to society than a single sperm.

I agree completely. This disgusting murder has been going on for far too long. Infact, even before abortion. Sperm has been wadted for far too long. But now, we have the technology to prevent it. We can not allow masturbation, or even natural sex to occur, because millions of sperm are wasted. Every woman must spend all of her time producing children, which will be conceived by artificially joining a single sperm with an egg. Rape will no longer be considered a crime, because not doing so is a waste of precious sperm. Rapists will instead be held in higher regard than others, because by wasting their sperm and eggs, non rapists are killing far more people than rapists.

If you can't detect the sarcasm, you've probobaly lost faith in humanity. Obviously sperm will be wasted, sperm do not think, they are not human, they are microscopic organisms that have no emotion or awareness. They are inanimate, and a single cow contributes more to society than a single sperm.

You're totally onto something. We should have milking devices attached to us to harvest every single sperm we can possibly produce. Same with egg-harvesting devices for the lovely women. At least the women can have all their eggs harvested at once. Lucky!

Then we can make sure that every single unborn baby will have a chance at life! It might be a horrible, overcrowded life, but it's their choice, right? How can we make that choice for them?

I feel sorry for all the children that were never even conceived!
Especially the child of me and Angelina Jolie. Poor thing. I really should make sure that it gets a chance at life.

You're all idiots. It's from Monty Python. Anyone who thinks I'd seriously compose a song that long only to sound like an anti-Catholic poking fun is sadly mistaken.

I posted it because I find the song endearing and pertinent to the situation, even if slightly offensive, being that we were on the subject of literary arts about abortion.

Abortion, you were my only friend
when I needed you the most

The others all condemned me
when I balked at being host

To a parasitic clump of cells
the size of a pin head

They claimed that zygote had a soul
an I shouldn't make it dead

So cheers to you my medical pal
you really were a friend

For making sure my future
wouldn't come to a dead end

I can resume my classload now
and buckle down and study

All because of my abortionist pal
my new and bestest buddy.

did you keep the body?

You're all idiots. It's from Monty Python. Anyone who thinks I'd seriously compose a song that long only to sound like an anti-Catholic poking fun is sadly mistaken.

I posted it because I find the song endearing and pertinent to the situation, even if slightly offensive, being that we were on the subject of literary arts about abortion.
I completly agree Women should be Bare Foot and Pregnant!
*Waves*

Then we can make sure that every single unborn baby will have a chance at life! It might be a horrible, overcrowded life, but it's their choice, right? How can we make that choice for them?

have you ever heard anyone make that argument? ever?

life begins at conception, jackass

You're totally onto something. We should have milking devices attached to us to harvest every single sperm we can possibly produce. Same with egg-harvesting devices for the lovely women. At least the women can have all their eggs harvested at once. Lucky!

Brave New World was a good book.

have you ever heard anyone make that argument? ever?

life begins at conception, jackass

I've heard myself make that argument. Just because I was the (potentially) first person to make the argument doesn't mean it lacks validity.

As the child born after my mother had an abortion, I can say that I wouldn't exist if she had chosen not to abort. I enjoy my life. I'm glad I was born. What about MY rights to life? I would never have been conveived, otherwise!

LIFE begins at conception. Sure. Are you arguing that killing life is inherently wrong? You kill life every time you take a step, or breath in and out. There is a LOT of life.

Are you arguing that stopping a human life is wrong? Well, that's a different matter. Are you arguing that it's a human from the moment of conception? Perhaps. But that's another whole topic. LIFE isn't the issue.

p.s. I did recognize the monty python song. I quite like the song, it's fun. I was using the discussion as an excuse to take the argument made from the song (which people do use as a real argument) to the extreme.

Brave New World was a good book.
Personally, I loved that book.
The idea of growing people intentionally stupid, so they wouldn't mind their menial jobs. *shudders*

But that's off-topic, so I won't discuss all the interesting implications of embryo-cloning that the book sparked in my mind.

I agree completely. This disgusting murder has been going on for far too long. Infact, even before abortion. Sperm has been wadted for far too long. But now, we have the technology to prevent it. We can not allow masturbation, or even natural sex to occur, because millions of sperm are wasted. Every woman must spend all of her time producing children, which will be conceived by artificially joining a single sperm with an egg. Rape will no longer be considered a crime, because not doing so is a waste of precious sperm. Rapists will instead be held in higher regard than others, because by wasting their sperm and eggs, non rapists are killing far more people than rapists.

If you can't detect the sarcasm, you've probobaly lost faith in humanity. Obviously sperm will be wasted, sperm do not think, they are not human, they are microscopic organisms that have no emotion or awareness. They are inanimate, and a single cow contributes more to society than a single sperm.

Whenever I masturbate, I am accompanied by a Priest who can give the sperm last rites. I mean, that's just common sense.

What's surprising is how many clergymen will rush over, at all hours, to watch me do it.

How come dead baby jokes aren't allowed? I see nothing offensive at all in them. I'm more offended at the stupidity that some people can come up with. For example, a thread on abortion. Flame-fest guaranteed. How do some of u morons manage to function? ( I am of course kidding, cuz that'd make me a hypocrite for posting on here.)

A Priest, A Rapist, and A Child Molester walk into a bar.



And thats just the first guy!

I'm still at a lack of understanding as to why this is an issue at all. I am a reformed christian (thank ME for getting myself out of that cult), and I am really boggled by one thing.

If god gave us free will (presuming that one believes in god in the first place) and the ability to deny him if we so wanted, then he/she will deal with those people as he/she sees fit when the time comes. It's not our responsibility as humans to do that for him/her. Now, that being said, why do so many christian hacks try to stick their noses into it?

I'm still at a lack of understanding as to why this is an issue at all. I am a reformed christian (thank ME for getting myself out of that cult), and I am really boggled by one thing.

If god gave us free will (presuming that one believes in god in the first place) and the ability to deny him if we so wanted, then he/she will deal with those people as he/she sees fit when the time comes. It's not our responsibility as humans to do that for him/her. Now, that being said, why do so many christian hacks try to stick their noses into it?

I guess it makes them feel morally superior and more righteous...

Utterly refuting all opposition to abortion? Yes, please! (http://flecko.net/thread.php?id=13663)

People need to lighten up. So you think abortion is wrong because you're Christian? Here's a clue: Don't have an abortion! If you really believe, then God will deal with abortionists and abortionees when he meets them in the afterlife. And those little babies will be happy in heaven, what with never having sinned before.

Unless you believe in original sin, but that's a terrible idea in the first place.

Whenever I masturbate, I am accompanied by a Priest who can give the sperm last rites. I mean, that's just common sense.

What's surprising is how many clergymen will rush over, at all hours, to watch me do it.LOL!

Utterly refuting all opposition to abortion? Yes, please!

People need to lighten up. So you think abortion is wrong because you're Christian? Here's a clue: Don't have an abortion! If you really believe, then God will deal with abortionists and abortionees when he meets them in the afterlife. And those little babies will be happy in heaven, what with never having sinned before.

Unless you believe in original sin, but that's a terrible idea in the first place.Exactly. Let your God judge those that carry out abortions, have abortions or are generally pro-choice - I believe it says in the Bible you claim to follow, at Matthew 7.1, that you should "...not judge, or you too will be judged" (or words to that effect, depending on what edition you are reading).

Brians Test has been trying my patience since he started posting in this forum. I'm sick of it.

That still doesnt make it mature to simpley ignore him

That still doesnt make it mature to simpley ignore him
I hardly think Brains Test is going to say anything smashingly original or present an argument not seen dozens of times. Of course, he seems to have vanished since he's not allowed to post his little pictures.

Abortion is legalized baby murder, committed by only the most selfish and encouraged only by the greediest. I seriously encourage you to reevaluate your life. Seriously.
Not all removal of life is unjustified.

This is graphic, but I think it would be hard for any pro-abortion supporter to look at this and say this should remain legal. I should warn that this picture is pretty grotesque, so if you may be offended, please do not look at it, as I am not intent on traumatizing anyone. The photo depicts an aborted child, so be warned.
That's just an emotional argument. You could show a gruesome photo of a victim of an American bomb in Iraq, and claim that it's a valid argument against the war.

That still doesnt make it mature to simpley ignore him
I think it is more mature than allowing myself to lose control and flame him and cuss him and all that crap.

I hardly think Brains Test is going to say anything smashingly original or present an argument not seen dozens of times. Of course, he seems to have vanished since he's not allowed to post his little pictures.

Why quote? Your response doesn't correlate to his statement. :)

I just don't have anything else to add at this time.

I think it is more mature than allowing myself to lose control and flame him and cuss him and all that crap.

That's true.

Maybe people should be responsible and not bang or be banged when they're not ready for a child. Intercourse is for reproduction so its pretty likely you're gonna get pregnant.

As for the mother's life being in danger... unless she was raped and is about to die I have no sympathy for her. If she is gonna have intercourse, she should be ready for what's to come, child or no child. She deserves whatever outcome Fate has in store for her.

I do however, have a bit of sympathy in rape cases.

It's not some fetus ruining your life, it's your decisions.

:mad: ahhhh I cant take it anymore.I cant believe there are so many fools out there.every time I go into one of these forums on abortion im hit with stupid argument after stupid argument.has the whole world gone insane.this is something there just shouldnt be debate over.its a matter of pure common sense.now one of you "pro choice"people give one shred of material justifying abortion.and if its the same ignorant rubbish as iv always heard i am going to shoot this computer :mad: :mad: :mad:

That ridiculous poem about that baby being aborted made my blood boil.
I don't know if this is in response to it, but well done.
Fucking pro-life arseholes.


Yes and Fuck them too, Baby killing bastards. :sniper:

Abortion, you were my only friend
when I needed you the most

The others all condemned me
when I balked at being host

To a parasitic clump of cells
the size of a pin head

They claimed that zygote had a soul
an I shouldn't make it dead

So cheers to you my medical pal
you really were a friend

For making sure my future
wouldn't come to a dead end

I can resume my classload now
and buckle down and study

All because of my abortionist pal
my new and bestest buddy.
Okay, there is a MAJOR problem here. We can't help it you couldn't keep your ravaging hormones from going out and getting someone or getting pregnant. Guess what you did? A. Murdered a poor innocent (lets just say not yet child) that cant make decisions, B. Took a part of YOURSELF, and sliced it into a billion pieces, AND C. Violated laws in which are clouded by your sinful nature yes you may think you a perfect princess but there is no such thing as "perfect" in this life. You chose all three things up there. Do you realize that if abortion continues, we won't have a future. Whether you realize it or not, children are our future. Many think not, because some may be a brat, or even a kid like in the movie "The Good Son." And, from what you had put on your "Ode to Nothing but Disgrace for Sick Twisted People that could have waited until they were married," you said Quote "I can resume my classload now, and buckle down and study." So, you are a college kid. There are other things to do other than kill a helpless child. Those weren't a clump of cells you were talking about. And that is my next arguement. Did you not take science class? Havent you learned about cells? So, you are saying that children are nothing but clumps of cells? Sure, that may be true, but their BODY is, not them. You have got to be kidding me. I schooled a college student. Make sure to study real hard, because that what you said you would do. Nope, its too late now to bring back something that could have made you laugh, even feel loved. Did you show mercy or compassion? That child could have given you love, or even more than that. Did you give him a chance? No. Did you give him a choice? No. My point is, you cant do this. I am surprised you dont even feel sad, or even feel that you murdered an innocent being that could have become something great. Thanks for making the world a much lesser place to live in.

I have another question.

Is it murder when a mother bird will throw an egg from her nest when she believes it won't survive after hatching? Is it murder when any other animal will possibly eat it's young because they feel it is too weak to survive in the world?

You fail to realize that we are not animals. Animals work only by instinct. We however have free will, and thereforth can make rational decision. We are superior to animals.

You fail to realize that we are not animals. Animals work only by instinct. We however have free will, and thereforth can make rational decision. We are superior to animals.
Amen. If they want us to treat them like animals, then why don't we? They are the ones killing their young.

Okay, there is a MAJOR problem here. We can't help it you couldn't keep your ravaging hormones from going out and getting someone or getting pregnant. Guess what you did? A. Murdered a poor innocent (lets just say not yet child) that cant make decisions, B. Took a part of YOURSELF, and sliced it into a billion pieces, AND C. Violated laws in which are clouded by your sinful nature yes you may think you a perfect princess but there is no such thing as "perfect" in this life. You chose all three things up there. Do you realize that if abortion continues, we won't have a future. Whether you realize it or not, children are our future. Many think not, because some may be a brat, or even a kid like in the movie "The Good Son." And, from what you had put on your "Ode to Nothing but Disgrace for Sick Twisted People that could have waited until they were married," you said Quote "I can resume my classload now, and buckle down and study." So, you are a college kid. There are other things to do other than kill a helpless child. Those weren't a clump of cells you were talking about. And that is my next arguement. Did you not take science class? Havent you learned about cells? So, you are saying that children are nothing but clumps of cells? Sure, that may be true, but their BODY is, not them. You have got to be kidding me. I schooled a college student. Make sure to study real hard, because that what you said you would do. Nope, its too late now to bring back something that could have made you laugh, even feel loved. Did you show mercy or compassion? That child could have given you love, or even more than that. Did you give him a chance? No. Did you give him a choice? No. My point is, you cant do this. I am surprised you dont even feel sad, or even feel that you murdered an innocent being that could have become something great. Thanks for making the world a much lesser place to live in.

Well... maybe you're right. But there's no point now in crying over a little spilled milk. Besides It's Saturday and time to party!

:mad: ahhhh I cant take it anymore.I cant believe there are so many fools out there.every time I go into one of these forums on abortion im hit with stupid argument after stupid argument.has the whole world gone insane.this is something there just shouldnt be debate over.its a matter of pure common sense.now one of you "pro choice"people give one shred of material justifying abortion.and if its the same ignorant rubbish as iv always heard i am going to shoot this computer :mad: :mad: :mad:

Are opponents of abortion typically this eloquent and rational?

The question really boils down to one fundamental question: at what point is the foetus considered human?

If the foetus is immediately to be considered human, evidently nobody has the right to kill it.

However, does this mean that the morning after pill and contraception are wrong? After all, the argument seems to often be that the foetus is a 'potential human'. Most evenings a single girl goes to bed without having sex, a potential child dies. Each time a couple uses contraception, there was a potential child, which was killed by the latex barrier or by the un-natural infertility of the woman. Or a percentage of a potential human.

The 'potential human' argument is risky, and not particularly strong. St. Thomas Aquinas (or Augustine - I can't remember which, but it was one of those two mooks) argued that each woman should bear the maximum number of children possible during her life-time; each child she didn't have was a potential human that had been killed. This is evidently absurd.

Although it brings one of the important issues to the fore, which is the liberation of woman. Until contraception became a popular option, woman was a slave to her body, and most women would go from bearing one child to another. The story of contraception is deeply interesting, and there is a brilliant and frank discussion of it in Simone deBeauvoir's "The Second Sex" ('Le Deuxieme Sexe' for anyone who can read the original).

Encouraging abstinence is a weak alternative for three reasons:
1) You're depriving people of one of the most fun and natural pass-times there are, putting pressure on relationships and encouraging people to torture themselves.

2) Our sexual drives are just too strong. Not having sex fucks people up. Honestly, look at all these stories of catholic priests molesting small boys. Does this actually surprise anyone? People will eventually wind up having sex - and lots of it! Banning contraception is just wrong.

3) People wind up having sex irresponsibly and in hiding. The greatest reason girls don't take birth control pills is that they're scared of their parents finding out. Got teenage pregnancy? Encouraging abstinence won't work, and in any case, heh, I don't abstain, how could I encourage others to do so?

So what about the morning after pill? What about abortion?

In general, abortion is only legal for a certain period of time after conception, the assumption being that conciousness manifests itself after the 3rd or 4th month, thus rendering the foetus human and untouchable.

THIS is the material of the argument, and I haven't looked into the medical facts and layers of discussion regarding the devellopment of the foetus. I think aspects such as the number of early pregnancy miscarriages (which tend to go un-noticed and are thus damn hard to monitor) and such would move the position of the foetus towards the unconceived baby (this is the question of 'potential human life' again), and the devellopement of brain (once you have neurons firing things surely become different).

But in any case, it is a LIFE and shouldn't be taken without good reason. If it is not technically a HUMAN life, however, but only a 'potential human life' perhaps there are some conditions in which we can and even should take it.

I refuse to step off the fence on this issue until I know more about it - it's really very complicated. There is an interesting discussion in S. Blackburn's "Being Good". However, that so-called 'ode' was certainly far too cavalier an approach. I figured it was actually ironic.

However, that so-called 'ode' was certainly far too cavalier an approach. I figured it was actually ironic.

You'd think the ;) at the beginning would give them a clue.


:)

You'd think the ;) at the beginning would give them a clue.


:)

:)

"Nobody ever went broke under-rating the taste of the American public"
-Oscar Wilde

But is the poem ACTUALLY an Ode? I thought Ode's needed four lines in each stanza as well as simply being addressed to someone? Could be wrong. Sorry if this is off topic.

LOL!

Exactly. Let your God judge those that carry out abortions, have abortions or are generally pro-choice - I believe it says in the Bible you claim to follow, at Matthew 7.1, that you should "...not judge, or you too will be judged" (or words to that effect, depending on what edition you are reading).

Oh He'll judge them alright and I'll let them know they are doing wrong while I can so they don't get judged for it; because if they do get judged for it all that'll come of it is damnation to Hellfire.

I don't even believe in Hell, but I think you're going there.

Abortion is legalized baby murder, committed by only the most selfish and encouraged only by the greediest. I seriously encourage you to reevaluate your life. Seriously.


Dude. Go get a uterus, be raped, and then take care of that baby. YOU WOULD BE SOOOOO SELFISH!


And durrh. MURDER IS NOT LEGAL. GET OVER IT YOU PRO-LIFERS. WHO AREN'T REALLY PRO-LIFE BECAUSE MOST OF YOU ARE FOR THE WAR, REALLY MAKING YOU PRO-DEATH. =D

First, I totally understand what you're saying. Murder is the unlawful killing of a person and, since abortion is legal, it's not unlawful and can't be murder--at least, I presume that's your logic.

When we say that abortion is murder, we mean that it's unjustified and therefore goes against the common law, natural law, and/or God's law. k?

LMFAO
Wow you have no idea what MURDER is. MURDER, according to Webster's, is...a flock of crows. GET IT STRAIGHT BRIAN!

Unjustified my ass...

You make me sick!

oh YEAH?! Well YOU make ME sick. What NOWW?

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then
There are those that follow Mohammad, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on,
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came, because

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs,
On the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine, and mine, and mine.

Let the pagans spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Oohh...I'm scared now...

I disagree.

Dude. You disagree with EVERYONE. That's why everyone thinks you're wrong...

I agree completely. This disgusting murder has been going on for far too long. Infact, even before abortion. Sperm has been wadted for far too long. But now, we have the technology to prevent it. We can not allow masturbation, or even natural sex to occur, because millions of sperm are wasted. Every woman must spend all of her time producing children, which will be conceived by artificially joining a single sperm with an egg. Rape will no longer be considered a crime, because not doing so is a waste of precious sperm. Rapists will instead be held in higher regard than others, because by wasting their sperm and eggs, non rapists are killing far more people than rapists.

If you can't detect the sarcasm, you've probobaly lost faith in humanity. Obviously sperm will be wasted, sperm do not think, they are not human, they are microscopic organisms that have no emotion or awareness. They are inanimate, and a single cow contributes more to society than a single sperm.

HAHAHAHHAHAH that is GREAT!
LMFAO! This is so amusing. Like the comment about maturbation and clergymen, too...haha...great

Maybe people should be responsible and not bang or be banged when they're not ready for a child. Intercourse is for reproduction so its pretty likely you're gonna get pregnant.

As for the mother's life being in danger... unless she was raped and is about to die I have no sympathy for her. If she is gonna have intercourse, she should be ready for what's to come, child or no child. She deserves whatever outcome Fate has in store for her.

I do however, have a bit of sympathy in rape cases.

It's not some fetus ruining your life, it's your decisions.

My f*ing goodnes...YOU PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY WHO WANTS AN ABORTION GOES AROUND SCREWING EVERYONE IN SITE ALL DAY! There are so many other reasons to allow abortion besides rape. You can see my whole opinion at http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9390320#post9390320. It's fun to argue with people, especially when they are really lame and think everyone is a whore. PLus they don't have good arguments. COME ON PEOPLE. TRY ME.

My f*ing goodnes...YOU PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYBODY WHO WANTS AN ABORTION GOES AROUND SCREWING EVERYONE IN SITE ALL DAY! There are so many other reasons to allow abortion besides rape. You can see my whole opinion at http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9390320#post9390320. It's fun to argue with people, especially when they are really lame and think everyone is a whore. PLus they don't have good arguments. COME ON PEOPLE. TRY ME.

Not everybody, but a lot if not most.

I'd like to see you refute that people are prone to be whores and manwhores when nearly 60% of the forum thinks that you should have sex because it feels good. :rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sosato
That ridiculous poem about that baby being aborted made my blood boil.
I don't know if this is in response to it, but well done.
Fucking pro-life arseholes.

Yes and Fuck them too, Baby killing bastards. :sniper:

Uh...Sosato was saying how he was annoyed by PRO-LIFERS. I think you thought he meant pro-choicers? He wasn't talking about the poem in the beginning of THIS thread...it was a different one. Unless you knew he was talking about pro-lifers...then I don't see how pro-lifers are 'baby killing bastards'?? I am confused. Unless you just don't make sense.

Well... maybe you're right. But there's no point now in crying over a little spilled milk. Besides It's Saturday and time to party!

LMFAO! They are so dumb not to realize you didn't get an actual abortion. Hahaha, great response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sosato
That ridiculous poem about that baby being aborted made my blood boil.
I don't know if this is in response to it, but well done.
Fucking pro-life arseholes.



Uh...Sosato was saying how he was annoyed by PRO-LIFERS. I think you thought he meant pro-choicers? He wasn't talking about the poem in the beginning of THIS thread...it was a different one. Unless you knew he was talking about pro-lifers...then I don't see how pro-lifers are 'baby killing bastards'?? I am confused. Unless you just don't make sense.

LMFAO! You're so dumb, you didn't notice he was talking about another poem! /imitation

He was talking about the original pro-life poem that set off this shit storm of amateur poetry. Someone should go post these at Starbucks, I'm sure those Anarcho-Socialists will eat it up and come all over themselves.

LMFAO! You're so dumb, you didn't notice he was talking about another poem! /imitation

He was talking about the original pro-life poem that set off this shit storm of amateur poetry. Someone should go post these at Starbucks, I'm sure those Anarcho-Socialists will eat it up and come all over themselves.

Hey! Let's keep this civil. It is a serious thread for discussion by serious people. Seriously.

LMFAO! You're so dumb, you didn't notice he was talking about another poem! /imitation

He was talking about the original pro-life poem that set off this shit storm of amateur poetry. Someone should go post these at Starbucks, I'm sure those Anarcho-Socialists will eat it up and come all over themselves.

LMFAO! Notice how I said I think he was talking about a DIFFERENT one.
LMFAO! Read everything before posting.
LMFAO!!!

LMFAO! I'LL CONCEDE THE POINT! I Just Got Burned!

Lmao, I'll Concede The Point. I Just Got Burned.

you forgot the f....you said lmao...not lmfao...get it straight...

you forgot the f....you said lmao...not lmfao...get it straight...

GET YOUR FACE STRAIGHT, LAMEZ0R LOLZ!

and as for the shit storm of amateur poetry...you realize these are JOKES, not actual thought-out poems? If not, then....you guessed it...LMFAO!

you forgot the f....you said lmao...not lmfao...get it straight...

Maybe his ass isn't fat like yours.

GET YOUR FACE STRAIGHT, LAMEZ0R LOLZ!

wa-ho! Your comeback was just like Frosted Flakes...GUH-reat!

Snort.

Maybe his ass isn't fat like yours.

Unless ur a pro-lifer in disguise, stop contradicting urself...

Unless ur a pro-lifer in disguise, stop contradicting urself...

Unless you're a kindergartener in disguise, spell "you" right! LOLZ ZING!

Hmmm...I think Gartref and the Catholic person could be the same person trying to have an argument with themself and them becoming allies at the end, Gartref becoming a huge hypocrite?


Or maybe not.

Unless you failed English, spell "you" right! LOLZ ZING!

Durrrh it's called a shortcut. OMG! You said lol...spell laugh out loud right!!!

Unless ur a pro-lifer in disguise, stop contradicting urself...

WTF?? whenever someone says lmfao i assume they're saying: "laugh my fat ass off"

Durrrh it's called a shortcut. OMG! You said lol...spell laugh out loud right!!!

OMFG FLAMEBATEZ0R!

WTF?? whenever someone says lmfao i assume they're saying: "laugh my fat ass off"

No I am just saying ur sticking up for the Catholic person, who is obviously pro-life...when you started a whole argument being pro-CHOICE, so they are against your opinion...and then you help them attack me, who shares your opinion.

No I am just saying ur sticking up for the Catholic person, who is obviously pro-life...when you started a whole argument being pro-CHOICE, so they are against your opinion...and then you help them attack me, who shares your opinion.

OMFG MAYBE NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE A BUNCH OF PARTISAN BS?

LOLZ NAW JUST JOSHING YOU, HE'S A TEAMKILLZ0R!

No I am just saying ur sticking up for the Catholic person, who is obviously pro-life...when you started a whole argument being pro-CHOICE, so they are against your opinion...and then you help them attack me, who shares your opinion.

You idiot. I always attack the last person who posted, regardless of their beliefs.

Okay Pro-Lifers you want to stop abortion then step up to the plate and adopt every to be aborted being, or do you think it's right for someone to grow up suffering every day because their parent blames them for ruining their life.

If anyone of you here have the guts to adopt a child to prevent an Abortion, say it. Otherwise you have no ****ing leg to stand on. It's easy to make decsions when they don't affect you.

Oh and if you go to one of those Pro-Life rallys outside of Abortion clinics. I'll be the guy throwing stuff at the Rally people and stealing their megaphone.

Okay Pro-Lifers you want to stop abortion then step up to the plate and adopt every to be aborted being, or do you think it's right for someone to grow up suffering every day because their parent blames them for ruining their life.

If anyone of you here have the guts to adopt a child to prevent an Abortion, say it. Otherwise you have no ****ing leg to stand on.

I'd gladly adopt as many as I could feed and keep track of.

And if you throw a rock at me, I'll gladly spit in your face.

I'd gladly adopt as many as I could feed and keep track of.

And if you throw a rock at me, I'll gladly spit in your face.

Then guess what, I RESPECT your beliefs. Because you have the courage to back them up.

I decided on water balloons instead. :D

Mon dieu, this thread looks quite fun to post in.

And yes, humour makes the world go round! You can never have enough of it.

Except that stupid woman who told me otherwise. Stupid Outward Bound. 'You should laugh your problems away..' I rolled down a Goddamn hill, what's not funny about that?

Right, back on topic. This is crayzee, soon people are going to tell me that euthanasia is bad.

Boy, everyone here seems to enjoy a nice debate in politics/current events. If your interested, I'm going to be making a political forum and I need some help. If your interested, please let me know.

Honestly, the abortion argument boils down to wtf didn't they get a morning after pill? it takes 3 days (approx) for fertilazation(sp, i'm tired) to get done in the first place, so any time during that period there isn't even a cluster of cells to flush. If people wouldn't be total morons in the first place, then there wouldn't be any aborted beings to have a huge flamefest over.

As to actual abortions? Some line has to be drawn somewhere a little more encompassing than rape victims and dangerous pregnancies, i'm just not quite sure where. Oh, and the parent or legal guardian should be required to be present. They have some responsibility themselves for raising a child in that position in the first place.

Fox out
:sniper:

Boy, everyone here seems to enjoy a nice debate in politics/current events. If your interested, I'm going to be making a political forum and I need some help. If your interested, please let me know.

Baby, I'm not the man you're looking for. Sure... It'd be fun for a while, we'd have a few laughs - but I'd just end up hurting you - Not on purpose, but I can't be tied down. Just remember the good times we've had and think of me fondly.

Im pro-pie

Okay Pro-Lifers you want to stop abortion then step up to the plate and adopt every to be aborted being, or do you think it's right for someone to grow up suffering every day because their parent blames them for ruining their life.

If anyone of you here have the guts to adopt a child to prevent an Abortion, say it. Otherwise you have no ****ing leg to stand on. It's easy to make decsions when they don't affect you.

Oh and if you go to one of those Pro-Life rallys outside of Abortion clinics. I'll be the guy throwing stuff at the Rally people and stealing their megaphone.

That is a foolish argument mainly because there are people waiting years and years for a baby to adopt in the US and many couples have given up and gone overseas to adopt an infant. So there arent any shortages of homes for unwanted babies. I dont protest or anything because it really doesnt do any good but if someone wants to do it I say go for it just dont be unreasonable about it. Throwing garbage at someone isnt right (either side)....FREEDOM of SPEECH .... If we have to have this crap I would much rather have that RU pill (whatever it is) that way it does not get to the point of having a heartbeat etc... I dont like it but it is certainly better than ripping a human being to pieces ((that is exactly what it is ...if you believe in it dont try and sugar coat the procedure)). This is baby killing pure and simple..dont give me that potential life horseshit because it can only turn into a human nothing else..not a dog, not a rabbit, frog etc. but a human. Now if we began aborting dogs and cats all of the PETA people would be screaming up and down while wearing their pro choice shirts. And that aint a lie! But..but youre killing animals! :rolleyes: and so you are with human abortions...

There was a young girl called Kelly,
Who let's face it was rather quite smelly,
She couldn't afford,
So laughed at their Lord,
And aborted that lump of clear jelly.

Im pro-pie

Who isn't? Pie is yummy!

*snip*

"If PETA can do it, then why can't I" excuses aren't all that good mind you.

Yes, there are people who are adopting babies from other countries, which isn't all that bad. Children in orphanages in Mongolio won't get much, it's good that people with money would be willing to adopt them.

But just because people want babies doesn't mean we can't have an abortion. Mind you, there are plenty of children in the foster system who, I'm sure, would LOVE a permanent home.

If God exists, then I just might go to Hell. But at least let me choose to go. :D.

That is a foolish argument mainly because there are people waiting years and years for a baby to adopt in the US and many couples have given up and gone overseas to adopt an infant. So there arent any shortages of homes for unwanted babies.

There may not be a shortage of homes now, but maybe there would be if all the aborted babies lived. And sure, not a shortage of homes. Just a shortage of people WILLING to adopt. Give me a number of kids who are waiting to be adopted...and ACCURATE number, then try to tell me there are hardly any kids and people are 'begging' for them, as you seem to imply here.

Now if we began aborting dogs and cats all of the PETA people would be screaming up and down while wearing their pro choice shirts. And that aint a lie! But..but youre killing animals! :rolleyes: and so you are with human abortions...

Well, yeah. There would be no reason to abort animals. Animals can take care of themselves, give a month. Adult animals don't have to work their asses off and then come home to watch their screaming babies. They don't need jobs. This is why it is just stupid to compare animals to humans. Animals aren't as intelligent as humans. And if you STILL want to use animal comparisons, there are plenty of animal 'abortions' they do themselves, such as birds pushing eggs out of nests. OH NO!! BABY KILLERS!!

Okay Pro-Lifers you want to stop abortion then step up to the plate and adopt every to be aborted being, or do you think it's right for someone to grow up suffering every day because their parent blames them for ruining their life.

If anyone of you here have the guts to adopt a child to prevent an Abortion, say it. Otherwise you have no ****ing leg to stand on. It's easy to make decsions when they don't affect you.

Oh and if you go to one of those Pro-Life rallys outside of Abortion clinics. I'll be the guy throwing stuff at the Rally people and stealing their megaphone.
Ahem. I believe that I, as a taxpayer, should support those children.
I do not really buy the "kill them for their own good" mentality, but I do think that they ought to be supported. It is necessary.

I'd rather donate stuff than go to a rally, it's more likely to have an effect.

(Pro-life in case you haven't noticed. See me, a rare specimen - a pro-lifer who supports government support!)

Are opponents of abortion typically this eloquent and rational?

).

Encouraging abstinence is a weak alternative for three reasons:
1) You're depriving people of one of the most fun and natural pass-times there are, putting pressure on relationships and encouraging people to torture themselves.

2) Our sexual drives are just too strong. Not having sex fucks people up. Honestly, look at all these stories of catholic priests molesting small boys. Does this actually surprise anyone? People will eventually wind up having sex - and lots of it! Banning contraception is just wrong.

3) People wind up having sex irresponsibly and in hiding. The greatest reason girls don't take birth control pills is that they're scared of their parents finding out. Got teenage pregnancy? Encouraging abstinence won't work, and in any case, heh, I don't abstain, how could I encourage others to do so?

I refuse to step off the fence on this issue until I know more about it - it's really very complicated. There is an interesting discussion in S. Blackburn's "Being Good". However, that so-called 'ode' was certainly far too cavalier an approach. I figured it was actually ironic.


Sex is not just a past time. Nobody dies of blue balls. Abstinence should be encourage in teenagers- they just arent prepared for the emotions that go along with it nor are they responsible enough. They arent supposed to be! Whheeee..I think Ill go have sex just to kill some time...come on. Who wants to encourage that type of thinking. I would encourage responsibility and the use of condoms and such. Not everyone can wait. Im not a prude. For the males if you put a condom on the first time you wont know the difference. Who gives a shit if it feels better the other way...its better than aids or a screaming baby at 3 in the morning!

YOure second argument is beyond moronic. Sexual molestation has NOTHING to do with sex. ITs a grown person forcing himself on a child!!! THOSE priests were molested as kids and they are perpetuating a sick cycle. This is a psychiatric condition with NO CURE. ALL molesters of children need to be executed. They are remorseless souless abominations. Lack of control of sexual urges does not cause one to molest , a TWISTED, DEVIANT, BRAIN, does.

Third argument doesnt fly because birth control comes in more forms than just the pill. Condoms, diaphragms and such can all be obtained without a parent every knowing. ANOTHER good argument for abstinence ..if you cant get the nerve up to get protection YOU ARE TOO IMMATURE to handle it.

There is no Pro-Life, only pro-Choice factions.

One believes you make a choice to kill the child inside you, the other believes you made your choice when you decided to get knocked up.

I agree. I refuse to usually acknowledge "pro-life" because if we do, than we assume that a fetus is in fact a child from the moment of conception. Which I do not believe. It may be life, but so is a parasite. No, a fetus only becomes "human" or a "child" once there is brain activity.

However, I agree 100% with you that "for" or "against", it's all a choice.

abortion is legal.. deal with it

it wont be made illegal.. deal with it

its a human right to do what she wants to her own body, and until that baby is born, it is still connected to and part of her body.. deal with it