NationStates Jolt Archive


The Progressive NS Think-Tank: Which issue to discuss?

President Shrub
27-07-2005, 18:36
This poll and discussion is for the Progressive NS Think-Tank, composed of:
President Shrub
Vetalia
The Nazz
Icelaca
Dysis
Kroisistan
The NAS Rebels

I believe we have enough members, so, unless anyone disagrees, I think sign-ups should be closed. I wouldn't want the "one sentence," posters to invade because they think it's 'cool.' If anyone believes someone new should join, feel free to sponsor them, and we'll briefly discuss and vote on it democratically.

Anyway, we need to decide which issue to debate first and also, how often, I'm thinking it'll work something like this:
Once a week, we debate one issue and decide an issue for next week. When deciding an issue, we'll outline what information needs to be found in order to prove any policy, one way or the other, as well as the burden of proof.

For example, with gun control, the information I see that you'd need are:
-The cause of gun-related deaths (Is gun control the only factor which affects murder rates, or even the main factor?)
-How many criminals use registered guns
-How easy it is to get a gun, illegally, with or without gun control
-Comparative murder rates of countries with different laws

And finally, you need to determine the "burden of proof," in case there's equal evidence for either argument or little evidence at all. In the case of gun control, in my opinion, the burden of proof lies upon gun control proponents.

Because you have two possibilities:
-Gun control doesn't work, and supporting it pointlessly restricts liberty
-Gun control works, and opposing it causes death.

At first, the previous seems more significant, making gun control opponents the ones who have the burden of proof. However, both Liberalism and Libertarianism are founded on the principle that you do not restrict liberty without ample evidence. So, by the gun control activists' own ideology, they are the ones who have the burden of proof. Furthermore, if, theoretically, any government becomes corrupt, if the citizenry is not armed, the "social contract," would be social extortion. Thus, if there's no evidence or equal evidence, our conclusion should be to oppose gun control.

Anyway, so to clarify:
DAY 1: Discuss an issue, outline the issue we're going to debate next.
DAY 2-5: Discuss the current issue, research the next issue.
DAY 6: I'll write a report on the issue from the members' overall concensus, including all information that was presented.
DAY 7: Discuss the next issue and outline the issue we'll debate after that.

Of course, this might need to be extended, in case of a rather long debate. After the end of that 7 days (and right before we discuss a new issue), I'll write a report on the group's overall concensus, including all the information put forth.

So, first... Just let me know which issue you'd like to discuss and if you believe there'd need to be any changes to the schedule above. Oh, it'd probably also be a good idea to exchange email addresses, I guess. I'm also considering whether to move this debate to a less busy forum (or turning it into a newsgroup), so we don't need to post-whore to make sure members see the thread.
President Shrub
27-07-2005, 21:43
bump
Boonytopia
27-07-2005, 23:28
Climate change.
Vetalia
27-07-2005, 23:36
I vote for socialism/laissez faire, because it seems economics is not discussed as in depth as other issues on NS. Discussing this would be a good connection to globalization, personal rights, and inequality, in my opinion.
President Shrub
28-07-2005, 02:07
I vote for socialism/laissez faire, because it seems economics is not discussed as in depth as other issues on NS. Discussing this would be a good connection to globalization, personal rights, and inequality, in my opinion.
I actually agree with that.

And also---EXCHANGE EMAILS.

Mine is muhfugga@gmail.com

If I have to set this up on here, I'll have to post-whore. So, exchange emails. I'll set up another forum or some kind of newsgroup.
Saipea
28-07-2005, 02:12
If I recall, President Shrub, you aren't that progressive yourself.
What was it you were banned for, again?

Furthermore, I would prefer you not generalize progressive ideals. They differ from person to person, and none (that are correct) involve pointlessly and mindlessly bashing opposition.
The Holy Womble
28-07-2005, 02:19
If "causes and solutions of terrorism" gets chosen, I'd like to recommend the people involved in the debate to view my recently created (and hopefully frequently updated) Islamism study thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434314) that examines historical background of Islamism as well as theological and ideological roots of modern terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda, the Taliban and the Islamic Jihad.
Vetalia
28-07-2005, 03:07
My email:

ajc9690@sbcglobal.net

Feel free to contact at anytime; I check it 2 or 3 times a day.
Ragbralbur
28-07-2005, 07:02
I don't want to cause any trouble, but I was wondering if I could get in on this. It seems like a decent idea. You can check my recent posts if you want a sign of my views and attitude.
President Shrub
28-07-2005, 21:54
If I recall, President Shrub, you aren't that progressive yourself.
What was it you were banned for, again?

Furthermore, I would prefer you not generalize progressive ideals. They differ from person to person, and none (that are correct) involve pointlessly and mindlessly bashing opposition.
Okay, first of all, allow me to put my boots on to wade through your deluge of ignorance.

Alright. Now...

On the issue of anti-semitism, I apologized for my Nazi-Jew analogy, and in another thread, later said that I'd do anything to get people to recognize I'm not a racist. I also later complained to the mods about an anti-semitic remark, because someone made basically the same Nazi-Jew analogy that I made (and the post was removed). Thirdly, Judaism is an interest of mine, at great length with the Holy Homble (in this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434127)). I don't think you'd find one of David Duke's followers saying that he'd marry a Jew, or that according to the Bible, the Jews have the divine right to Israel.

Furthermore, on the word "progressive," I clarified in the original thread about this topic (found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=434325)) that progressive is a subjective term and defined it very broadly.

Lastly, this is a closed-discussion. In conclusion, your flame-baiting is both irrelevant and ignorant. So, you can kindly fuck off.
President Shrub
28-07-2005, 22:57
Oh, and...

I don't want to cause any trouble, but I was wondering if I could get in on this. It seems like a decent idea. You can check my recent posts if you want a sign of my views and attitude.
Sure. Being that the original members that signed up haven't replied to this thread and I haven't gotten their email addresses yet.
Vintovia
28-07-2005, 22:59
Well, Id say Globalisation and/or socialisim vs. Lassaiez faire.
Vintovia
28-07-2005, 23:03
Hey, can I join? I love Debating!
Stephistan
29-07-2005, 18:09
When I have time for an issue I would be happy to take part. :)
Greedy Pig
29-07-2005, 18:12
Globalization.

Socialism and Lassiez-faire has been done too often.
Europlexa
29-07-2005, 21:14
Perhaps my post on the sign-up thread was too short and thus not sufficiently noticeable, perhaps I ought to have listed my 'qualifications' or perhaps you flatly did not wish me to join. In the vain hope that it was a mere case of overlooking my post, I have decided to re-apply - especially given my attempt to establish a rival think tank flatly failed!

These are the 'qualifications' listed, and I shall address each in turn:

"You've memorized the most common logical fallacies (ad-hominem, begging the question, slippery slope, etc).
Have a decent educational background (high school and some college)
Have access to and use a library
Are capable of doing online research through Google.
Have access to an online scholarly library (such as Questia)
Can type legibly.
Have a basic understanding of what makes statistics reliable."

Logical fallacies are not a problem. I have a doctorate in Social and Political Studies and an MA in Economics from Cambridge. I have access to several libraries, so that oughtn't be a problem. Online research has become something of a life for me, given that I am a teacher and advisor to numerous think tanks including Reform and the Adam Smith Institute. The latter two points are both covered too (I hope! - you can judge the typing).

In terms of political views, I am (rather oddly) what is best described as a paternalistic libertarian ie. I believe the state should be as small as possible, but have no anarchist illusions and do not support the disintegration of a national police force/army for private militia.

I hope this is okay. I really am excited about this project.