NationStates Jolt Archive

The Pensacola News Journal has been thrown out of Wal-Mart, not because they printed something untrue, but because a local higher-up manager didn't like the fact that a columnist dared air some unpleasant truths about Wal-Mart's affect on the city. Here's the article. (http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050724/OPINION/507240314/1020#)

Columnist Mark O'Brien wrote a column that referenced Thomas Friedman's book, The Earth is Flat, in which Friedman makes the accurate claim that in many locales, taxpayers subsidize Wal-Mart's lower prices in the form of higher costs for public services, especially health care for Wal-Mart employees and their children. This is nothing new--information like this has been around for years, and it's part of the reason I stopped going to Wal-Mart a couple of years ago.

But Wal-Mart doesn't like seeing the truth about the effects their business practices have on the locals aired, so in this case, they decided to become the bully. Mr. Hart, however, said he and his stores couldn't tolerate a newspaper that would print the opinions of someone who was as mean and negative as Mark O'Brien. But, you know, Mark's not nearly as ornery as that left-wing rabble-rouser Molly Ivins, whose column the newspaper also publishes. At any rate, Mr. Hart said he wanted the newspaper to get its racks off his lots. But he also said that if I fired Mark, we could talk about continuing to sell the newspaper at his stores.

Wal-Mart is a company that wraps itself in red, white and blue.

I might understand it if Wal-Mart said I ought to fire Mark because what he said wasn't accurate. But that isn't the case. Mark accurately reported that there are 10,000 children of Wal-Mart employees in a health-care program that is costing Georgia taxpayers nearly $10 million a year.Now some people might call the bolded piece extortion--I wouldn't, but I would call it a shakedown at the very least. Fortunately, the editor didn't buckle. He closed his column this way.
When we stop listening to people on the other side of the fence, when we try to silence and even punish people for thinking differently than we do and raising facts and figures we don't like, well, we won't be red, white and blue anymore.

That's why Mark still has a job and you can't buy a Pensacola News Journal at Wal-Mart anymore.That's a man who understands what America is all about. The same can't be said for this Wal-Mart.

Another reason to hate Wal :) Mart

Confetti! (http://www.etailersdigest.com/celebrate/images/confetti.gif)
Yeahness! At least one paper still has its balls.

It's always nice to see another person of Irish descent with big cojones.

Way to go, dude!

I can only hope tha Wal-Mart will eventually go bankrupt. I have never liked them nor have ever shoped there.

I heard that a Wal-Mart distribution warehouse is coming to my town. WTF?
:confused:

Anyway, I hate Wal-Mart!!! EVIL EVIL EVIL!!!

I boycott Wal-mart anyway, so no loss to me :D

You guys seriously should watch the south park episode on wal mart, it shows you how dumb you all are being.

You guys seriously should watch the south park episode on wal mart, it shows you how dumb you all are being.


Call it a character flaw, but I can't support a company that exploits workers in foreign countries.

Call it a character flaw, but I can't support a company that exploits workers in foreign countries.

By giving them jobs? Are they out there kidnapping people and throwing them into those blue jackets and forcing them to work for 5.45?

Where is the proof of these exploits?

Not really suprising though, its been in your cartoons since you were a kid of the big bad evil factory polluting everything and destorying trees while the hero defeats them, i used to like life before i realized it was just a social tool..

your training is kicking in based on your responce.

By giving them jobs? Are they out there kidnapping people and throwing them into those blue jackets and forcing them to work for 5.45?

Where is the proof of these exploits?

Not really suprising though, its been in your cartoons since you were a kid of the big bad evil factory polluting everything and destorying trees while the hero defeats them, i used to like life before i realized it was just a social tool..

your training is kicking in based on your responce.



Oh please, do you know the purpose of outsourcing? Cheap labor. You don't have to pay foreigners minimum wage. These people do hard work for little money. Maybe if Wal-Mart started treating them like human beings, this wouldn't be an issue.

Oh please, do you know the purpose of outsourcing? Cheap labor. You don't have to pay foreigners minimum wage. These people do hard work for little money. Maybe if Wal-Mart started treating them like human beings, this wouldn't be an issue.
The very fact that they get paid means that they are treated as humans.
Also, outsourcing has nothing to do with people employed in this country.

Oh please, do you know the purpose of outsourcing? Cheap labor. You don't have to pay foreigners minimum wage. These people do hard work for little money. Maybe if Wal-Mart started treating them like human beings, this wouldn't be an issue.

and that makes wal mart bad? maybe you should be going to the source of the problem, the governments that allow it. Wal marts job is to pay their workers what the workers are willing to work for and to show a profit for share holders, beyond that they own nothing else.

Stop putting american worth ethic and standards on other countries. Not every country has had a brutal labor union that drove up costs to insanity high.

The ONLY reason its an issue is because wal mart doesnt like unions, they have been the only company with the balls to say no we arnt going to pay you 10 times what you are worth like the typical american mimumum wage trash gets.

The very fact that they get paid means that they are treated as humans.
Also, outsourcing has nothing to do with people employed in this country.



I wasn't referring to the ones in this country, I was referring to the ones employed in other countries. The people in "The Grapes of Wrath" certainly got paid, but was it even enough to live on? Every person who works hard deserves a decent wage, I say!

and that makes wal mart bad? maybe you should be going to the source of the problem, the governments that allow it. Wal marts job is to pay their workers what the workers are willing to work for and to show a profit for share holders, beyond that they own nothing else.

Stop putting american worth ethic and standards on other countries. Not every country has had a brutal labor union that drove up costs to insanity high.

The ONLY reason its an issue is because wal mart doesnt like unions, they have been the only company with the balls to say no we arnt going to pay you 10 times what you are worth like the typical american mimumum wage trash gets.



I suppose that my Christian attitude towards treating others like you would want to be treated yourself tends to cloud my judgement :rolleyes:

I wasn't referring to the ones in this country, I was referring to the ones employed in other countries. The people in "The Grapes of Wrath" certainly got paid, but was it even enough to live on? Every person who works hard deserves a decent wage, I say!
Well, I hope you never purchase from, own stock in, advertise for, or otherwise support any multi-national corporation. Without those companies employing those people, they would have nothing but their subsistence gardens to live off of.

...like the typical american mimumum wage trash gets.

Ouch.

I suppose that my Christian attitude towards treating others like you would want to be treated yourself tends to cloud my judgement :rolleyes:

Not everybody wants to be treated like you. Its an assumption you make that these people are missrible because they have a job at wal mart....i gurenttee you most are happy they even have a job.

What would happen if you started paying american min wage in say India? youd cause runaway inflation. The world isnt America, the stardards (good or bad) in america are not to be applied anywhere else.

Not everybody wants to be treated like you. Its an assumption you make that these people are missrible because they have a job at wal mart....i gurenttee you most are happy they even have a job.

What would happen if you started paying american min wage in say India? youd cause runaway inflation. The world isnt America, the stardards (good or bad) in america are not to be applied anywhere else.



They should be, everyone deserves at least a decent standard of living. How can we claim the moral highground if we allow our companies to do this?

I suppose that my Christian attitude towards treating others like you would want to be treated yourself tends to cloud my judgement :rolleyes:
Those workers in other countries are getting exactly what they expect to get. Everything isn’t universal.

Ouch.

yes that was harsh, im refering to only the non-teenagers, college students, and elderly.

If you are 26-49 and not in one of the catagories above and you are working at wal mart, you deserve what you got handed to you because youve been trash throughout your life due to your poor choices. There is no such thing as luck when it comes to life, as the saying goes you get what you put in.

They should be, everyone deserves at least a decent standard of living. How can we claim the moral highground if we allow our companies to do this?

Moral high ground about what? doing what? giving people jobs that they applied for in their own free will? Another american "incite" is they think cost of living in all countries are the same...they arnt either. a dollar in africa goes a lot farther then a dollar in Boston.

if you suddenly apply american min wage around in these countries you would cause massive runaway inflation and everybody in the country would be poorer for it. People would need a wheelborrow of their currency to get an apple.

Moral high ground about what? doing what? giving people jobs that they applied for in their own free will? Another american "incite" is they think cost of living in all countries are the same...they arnt either. a dollar in africa goes a lot farther then a dollar in Boston.

if you suddenly apply american min wage around in these countries you would cause massive runaway inflation and everybody in the country would be poorer for it. People would need a wheelborrow of their currency to get an apple.


Look, if we have to give up some of our luxuries and lifestyle so people in third world countries can at least get a decent bite to eat and a roof over their head and clothes on their back, I'm all for making a few sacrifices.

Not everybody wants to be treated like you. Its an assumption you make that these people are missrible because they have a job at wal mart....i gurenttee you most are happy they even have a job.

What would happen if you started paying american min wage in say India? youd cause runaway inflation. The world isnt America, the stardards (good or bad) in america are not to be applied anywhere else.
That makes sense. Why shouldn't we be able to buy the finest meats so the people that make our cloths for 10 cents an hour 14 hours a day can buy more than just rice? The reason you save so much is because Wal :) Mart is dedicated to providing savings for the consumer--a noble cause, but this company takes it to the extreme. They put enormous pressure on suppliers to provide savings in return, and the only way the suppliers can do that is pay their workers barely enough to survive.

So yes, let's not spend a dime more on our cloths so the people that make them can buy more than rice and let's tell them it could be worse and we're doing them a favor. :rolleyes:

Look, if we have to give up some of our luxuries and lifestyle so people in third world countries can at least get a decent bite to eat and a roof over their head and clothes on their back, I'm all for making a few sacrifices.
You don’t seem to be getting it. If we gave them our minimum wage, they would suffer even more than us. Inflation would destroy them. Suddenly food, that once cost very little, would begin to cost the same price as it does in the US.

Not everybody wants to be treated like you. Its an assumption you make that these people are missrible because they have a job at wal mart....i gurenttee you most are happy they even have a job.

yes, i'm sure that people wanted to be driven off of their land and into slums so they could work ridiculously long hours in horrific conditions making starvation wages so you can buy more useless crap. in fact, they look forward to the times when the bosses and their pet governments have anyone who dares to stand up or unionize taken out and shot.

its the least terrible of a series of artificially created bad options, and therefore everyone should just shut up about it while the elite continues their game of gathering up 90% of the wealth in the world unhindered.

You don’t seem to be getting it. If we gave them our minimum wage, they would suffer even more than us. Inflation would destroy them. Suddenly food, that once cost very little, would begin to cost the same price as it does in the US.


A gradual redistribution of the wealth, comrade, a gradual redistribution. I feel very red today :D

A gradual redistribution of the wealth, comrade, a gradual redistribution. I feel very red today :D
Republican? :p

Republican? :p



Social conservative, fiscal liberal :D

I was waiting for someone to comment on how we share the same colour with Ivan ;)

You don’t seem to be getting it. If we gave them our minimum wage, they would suffer even more than us. Inflation would destroy them. Suddenly food, that once cost very little, would begin to cost the same price as it does in the US.

does anybody seriously propose this? i thought the reformist position was for a minimum wage (or a living one, depending) based on local standard of living, not some arbitrary jump to making five bucks american an hour. you know, like how the united states set its minimum wage based on conditions there, rather than in new zealand.

It's funny people supporting the fact that 8 year olds are working 18 hour days for around 10 cents an hour, and half of you don't give a damn. Because that's what Wal-Mart hires.

By the way because China is redoing their money system, Wal-mart will be losing profits, meaning that those 'low prices' won't be around.

Social conservative, fiscal liberal :D
Honestly, that has to be the most disgusting political leaning I have ever heard of. Tell me, how does it feel to think that you know not only how everyone should live their lives, but how every industry should run?

It's funny people supporting the fact that 8 year olds are working 18 hour days for around 10 cents an hour, and half of you don't give a damn. Because that's what Wal-Mart hires.

By the way because China is redoing their money system, Wal-mart will be losing profits, meaning that those 'low prices' won't be around.


We save, they suffer. Ah, the joys of capitalism :rolleyes:

Honestly, that has to be the most disgusting political leaning I have ever heard of. Tell me, how does it feel to think that you know not only how everyone should live their lives, but how every industry should run?



Aren't you Christian?


Acts 2:42-47 42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

does anybody seriously propose this? i thought the reformist position was for a minimum wage (or a living one, depending) based on local standard of living, not some arbitrary jump to making five bucks american an hour. you know, like how the united states set its minimum wage based on conditions there, rather than in new zealand.
They already do. If people didn’t think they could earn a relatively good living doing it, they wouldn’t leave their farms to go work there.

We save, they suffer. Ah, the joys of capitalism :rolleyes: At least someone here gets the fact that these countries are run by hyprocrites.

Aren't you Christian?


Acts 2:42-47 42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
A common misconception, usually propagated by non-Christians and not supported by facts.
First, those people gave up their possessions voluntarily; they were not forced to by any government.
Second, they were led by sincerely spiritual men. Something we can not confirm in modern day society and something that does not currently exist in leaders.
At least someone here gets the fact that this country is run by hyprocrites.
What is hypocritical?

A common misconception, usually propagated by non-Christians and not supported by facts.
First, those people gave up their possessions voluntarily; they were not forced to by any government.
Second, they were led by sincerely spiritual men. Something we can not confirm in modern day society and something that does not currently exist in leaders.

What is hypocritical?



But until true devotion is exhibited by the greedy American public, can we rely entirely on charity to support such things? When we can be trusted to do so of our own accord, that will be a wonderous day.

But until true devotion is exhibited by the greedy American public, can we rely entirely on charity to support such things? When we can be trusted to do so of our own accord, that will be a wonderous day.
I honestly don’t care what other people do. I give to charity, that is all that matters.
On another note, find for me in the Bible where it says “Though shalt take money from people through the government and give it to other people.”

They already do. If people didn’t think they could earn a relatively good living doing it, they wouldn’t leave their farms to go work there.

bullshit. firstly, thinking it will be better is a far cry from actually being better. secondly, significant numbers of people have not voluntarily left their farms but were driven off either through predatory lending or direct confiscation (often to give to some multinational). thirdly, is it your opinion that american workers back during the bad old days should not have fought for shorter hours, better pay, and safer conditions since they obviously already were making living wages?

I honestly don’t care what other people do. I give to charity, that is all that matters.
On another note, find for me in the Bible where it says “Though shalt take money from people through the government and give it to other people.”



Leviticus 27:30 30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.


Seems mandatory there.



Matthew 22:15-22 15Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
18But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

21"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

22When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.



Should the government follow Christian principles and distribute the wealth amongst the people, giving to each his needs, we would have to comply.



Edit: Oh, and I'm sick of giving a good portion of my paycheck to charities while greedy slobs do nothing to help the needy! Either we need to improve morally and get past our selfish desires, or the government should make those who refuse at least donate SOMETHING!!

On another note, find for me in the Bible where it says “Though shalt take money from people through the government and give it to other people.”

deut 14: 28-29
28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

next question?

deut 14: 28-29
28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
Leviticus 27:30 30 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
Both of these are Old Testament and refer to a society that no longer exists, and depend on being run by a theocratic monarch.
Matthew 22:15-22 15Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
18But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

21"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

22When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
Jesus does not advocate the redistribution of wealth here, He merely is saying to be good citizens and pay your taxes.
Edit: Oh, and I'm sick of giving a good portion of my paycheck to charities while greedy slobs do nothing to help the needy! Either we need to improve morally and get past our selfish desires, or the government should make those who refuse at least donate SOMETHING!!
And I am sick of people feeling that they have the right to impose their morality on others.

Both of these are Old Testament and refer to a society that no longer exists, and depend on being run by a theocratic monarch.

and that would be the sound of the goalposts running off over the horizon...

I support capitalism, and I support the right for wal-mart to do business.

I wasn't referring to the ones in this country, I was referring to the ones employed in other countries. The people in "The Grapes of Wrath" certainly got paid, but was it even enough to live on? Every person who works hard deserves a decent wage, I say!

and how much should this decent wage be? How much should us foreigners be paid? by local standards or by standards set in the USA?

Wow--this thread has drifted a bit since I started it last night. Anyone want to actually address the substance of the original article I posted?

meh...

they're within their rights to sell whichever magazines/newspapers they want. Don't agree with the blackmail though

If you shop at Wal-Mart, you're a coward and a consumerite first and foremost before all considerations.

You guys seriously should watch the south park episode on wal mart, it shows you how dumb you all are being.

This post is fuckin' hilarious. Yeah right, buddy, I'm going to get my political and economic information from a cartoon. Learn some grammar.

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

meh. I'm to the point where I don't care what a corporation does anymore. If it saves me enough money to have food for the rest of the week, then it can do whatever the hell it wants!

You guys seriously should watch the south park episode on wal mart, it shows you how dumb you all are being.

If you shop at Wal-Mart then you are one being dumb. Wal-Mart is an ecil corporation. And if you learn stuff from south park then you have other things to worry about.

I am glad to see the press standing behind the principals they are protected by … freedom of expression three cheers to that editor

If you shop at Wal-Mart, you're a coward and a consumerite first and foremost before all considerations.
Now I see the consumerite but what is with the coward?

I support capitalism, and I support the right for wal-mart to do business.
And part of capitalism is our ability to choose where to spend our money depending on if we agree or disagree with business practices

Now I see the consumerite but what is with the coward?

Because you're putting your own immediate gain and wallet gratification over the needs of the people and businesses in your community. It takes a smidgen of courage to be willing to pay a few dollars more for your goods knowing you are contributing the the betterment of your neighbours and not to Wal-Mart's corporate overlords. It's cowardly to simply lie back and let a mega-corporation put the screws to your local economy - and by extension, allow that same mega-corporation to put the screws to other economies in other places.

Hurting people is never good. Saving a few bucks and ignoring the hurt you cause to others is also never good. Living a consumerite lifestyle and placing your immediate gains over and above the livelihoods of many is an act of cowardice.

In my opinion. Of course.

And now let the flaying begin. I expect no less from dedicated consumerites. Bring it on.

Because you're putting your own immediate gain and wallet gratification over the needs of the people and businesses in your community. It takes a smidgen of courage to be willing to pay a few dollars more for your goods knowing you are contributing the the betterment of your neighbours and not to Wal-Mart's corporate overlords. It's cowardly to simply lie back and let a mega-corporation put the screws to your local economy - and by extension, allow that same mega-corporation to put the screws to other economies in other places.

Hurting people is never good. Saving a few bucks and ignoring the hurt you cause to others is also never good. Living a consumerite lifestyle and placing your immediate gains over and above the livelihoods of many is an act of cowardice.

In my opinion. Of course.

And now let the flaying begin. I expect no less from dedicated consumerites. Bring it on.


When the those "few dollars" are the difference between eating for a week, or begging friends for food, I'd rather be a coward in your eyes.

Because you're putting your own immediate gain and wallet gratification over the needs of the people and businesses in your community. It takes a smidgen of courage to be willing to pay a few dollars more for your goods knowing you are contributing the the betterment of your neighbours and not to Wal-Mart's corporate overlords. It's cowardly to simply lie back and let a mega-corporation put the screws to your local economy - and by extension, allow that same mega-corporation to put the screws to other economies in other places.

Hurting people is never good. Saving a few bucks and ignoring the hurt you cause to others is also never good. Living a consumerite lifestyle and placing your immediate gains over and above the livelihoods of many is an act of cowardice.

In my opinion. Of course.

And now let the flaying begin. I expect no less from dedicated consumerites. Bring it on.


And it takes a little bit of courage to shop there despite all the crap that they take …

:p

Now don’t get me wrong I don’t like their business practices and I do not shop there myself ... but calling them cowards does not seem well supported and also seems like an attempted troll

When the those "few dollars" are the difference between eating for a week, or begging friends for food, I'd rather be a coward in your eyes.

Well, there's always public assistance. I'm not ashamed to admit I needed emergency welfare assistance on two occasions early on in my independence.

Not to mention the occasions when I had to avail myself of Unemployment Insurance.

Because for some of us, begging food from friends or family is not an option. Why? Well, not all of us have family, and not all our friends are better off than we are.

That's when not shopping at Wal-Mart becomes an act of bravery. And yes, I have gone to bed hungry. More often than I care to count.

But I am extremely proud to report I've never spent dime one at a Wal-Mart.

and how much should this decent wage be? How much should us foreigners be paid? by local standards or by standards set in the USA?
I agree with this statement. I feel it is the national government's job to ensure that their citizens are being paid a wage by which they can subsist on, not ours. In sitautions that this isn't the case, I think there probably should be some sort of action taken by the US to encourage it (and lessen the export from that country to the US), but I don't believe that most 3rd world national governments are as negligent in this as some make them out to be.

And part of capitalism is our ability to choose where to spend our money depending on if we agree or disagree with business practices
Some might say it's the very meaning of capitalism: that consumers can choose where to spend their money, influencing prices, availability, and business practices. It's like 'government accountability', except there's a referendum on the business every time a consumer needs to buy something

Anyway, Kudos to those who are not shopping at Wal-Mart because they feel it less-than-moral. And Kudos to those who are willing to speak out against Wal-Mart, regardless of the repercussions.

And it takes a little bit of courage to shop there despite all the crap that they take …

:p

Now don’t get me wrong I don’t like their business practices and I do not shop there myself ... but calling them cowards does not seem well supported and also seems like an attempted troll

It may seem like whatever you wish it to seem like, it is nonetheless my opinion.

And if I can go to bed hungry rather than feed a monster, others can too. They simply elect to take the path of least resistance, the coward's way out. And for that, I offer no sympathies.

And Kudos to those who are willing to speak out against Wal-Mart, regardless of the repercussions.

Hear, hear!

Oh, for God's sake! If I didn't have anything to worry about other than friggin' WALMART, I think I'd just go ahead and kill myself. I shop WalMart because I love their prices and the variety they have. I personally couldn't give a rat's ass about what they pay, how they pay it, what benefits they have, etc. That's between them and their employees, with a bit of government action thrown in. Old man Walton had a great idea: give the customer what he wants, at a price he can afford. And, surprise, surprise, customers actually like that! Amazing that people would actually want to pay lower prices, yes?
:rolleyes:

If WalMart didn't own Asda (the best supermarket in my town) I'd probably care no more than I do now.

It may seem like whatever you wish it to seem like, it is nonetheless my opinion.

And if I can go to bed hungry rather than feed a monster, others can too. They simply elect to take the path of least resistance, the coward's way out. And for that, I offer no sympathies.
The cowards way from your perspective … the smart way from there’s possibly …

Oh, for God's sake! If I didn't have anything to worry about other than friggin' WALMART, I think I'd just go ahead and kill myself. I shop WalMart because I love their prices and the variety they have. I personally couldn't give a rat's ass about what they pay, how they pay it, what benefits they have, etc. That's between them and their employees, with a bit of government action thrown in. Old man Walton had a great idea: give the customer what he wants, at a price he can afford. And, surprise, surprise, customers actually like that! Amazing that people would actually want to pay lower prices, yes?
:rolleyes:

Spoken like an avowed consumerite. Screw the world, I'm out for number one.

Congratulations, Mahatma.

First off Walmart isnt the only company or franchise that its employees get medicaid etc. Almost all of them do McD, Burger King, Steinmart, etc. So why did they get singled out? who knows. I live near the Pensacola region and Mark O Brian can be very offensive at times and I think he should have included others in this statement. That manager doesnt speak for Walmart , that was his gut reaction and personally, I think he overreacted. But if you are not shopping at Wallyworld strictly for that reason you had better stop shopping completely and going out to eat because they all pay low wages. Oh and Mr. O'Brian failed to mention the benefits Walmart employees get like PROFIT sharing and occassionally monetary bonuses. and NO I dont work there.

The cowards way from your perspective … the smart way from there’s possibly …

Well, what am I supposed to do? Argue from someone elses' point of view? Let it slide? Beat myself up for having an opposing point of view?

What do you suggest?

Well, what am I supposed to do? Argue from someone elses' point of view? Let it slide? Beat myself up for having an opposing point of view?

What do you suggest?
Maybe have some empathy and take into consideration that not all their motivation is pure cowardice ... that would be a start

You are welcome to your point of view but not everyone makes decisions based on your reality … what you see as an act of cowardice they may not necessarily be such from their point of view … they may see certain things you do as cowardice , but those may not be YOUR motivation.

Well, there's always public assistance. I'm not ashamed to admit I needed emergency welfare assistance on two occasions early on in my independence.

Not to mention the occasions when I had to avail myself of Unemployment Insurance.

Because for some of us, begging food from friends or family is not an option. Why? Well, not all of us have family, and not all our friends are better off than we are.

That's when not shopping at Wal-Mart becomes an act of bravery. And yes, I have gone to bed hungry. More often than I care to count.

But I am extremely proud to report I've never spent dime one at a Wal-Mart.


I am not eligible for anything you mentioned. Aside from that, every major corporation has its skeletons in the closet. Hell, every FAMILY does as well. I, for one, cannot go to bed hungry without waking up extremely ill and unable to function. I've always shopped at Walmart, and I will continue.

Aside from that --- do you buy roses? oranges? They're farmed by poor migrant workers who are getting screwed out of their money and living in unsanitary conditions.

You can't get caught up in every crisis that passes by. Grow a backbone..or a cruel streak. Your choice.

I'm out of this thread. Have fun, guys.

Maybe have some empathy and take into consideration that not all their motivation is pure cowardice ... that would be a start

You are welcome to your point of view but not everyone makes decisions based on your reality … what you see as an act of cowardice they may not necessarily be such from their point of view … they may see certain things you do as cowardice , but those may not be YOUR motivation.

So I'm supposed to hold their hands and reassure them they're only doing what they have to in order to get by?

Look, I've stood in line at foodbanks at the lowest ebbs of my adult life. I've gone without - had to get haircuts at barber colleges, clothing second-hand, and walk across town to job interviews 'cause I couldn't budget bus fare.

And yet I've never shopped at Wal-Mart. Even if it meant going without food for stretches as long as three days. I am principled, and I will not support the misery machine that Wal-Mart is for far too many people.

If that seems tough, try walking a mile in my shoes before you cut me down.

Amazing that people would actually want to pay lower prices, yes?

I'm curious how long Wal-Mart can manage this, though. I personally feel it's only a matter of time before a) Wal-Mart employees unionize and force increased, b) other businesses become competitive enough to offer the similar goods at similarly low prices (I've already seen a great deal of it at the local Meijer--a midwest US chain) or c) wholesalers and manufacturers tire with the aggressive bargaining tactics of Wal-Mart (or just refuse to accept Wal-Mart's wholesaler unfriendly demands).

Also, I've seen increased demonization of Wal-Mart in the past 6 months. The documentary/whistle-blower chorus seems to be warming up for singing Wal-Mart's decry for at least the next few years. That means that public opinion (unless suitable alternative choruses arise which paint a nicer picture of Wal-Mart) will likely turn against Wal-Mart's business practices for one reason or another. That of course means that it won't be long before politicians jump on the band wagon and begin threatening and possibly enacting anti-Wal-Mart legislation and action.

I think Wal-Mart's place at the top of the market, and at the bottom of the price list can only be temporary, given the changing retail climate.

You can't get caught up in every crisis that passes by. Grow a backbone..or a cruel streak. Your choice.

Grow one yourself. I'd like to see you try getting by according to my rulebook. You'd be scurrying back to Wal-Mart like a frightened weevil.

It takes strength of character to hold up under adversity. It takes nothing at all to cave in and prop up those bastards.

Spoken like an avowed consumerite. Screw the world, I'm out for number one.

Congratulations, Mahatma.
Thank you, thank you. All donations gratefully accepted! :D

Grow one yourself. I'd like to see you try getting by according to my rulebook. You'd be scurrying back to Wal-Mart like a frightened weevil.

It takes strength of character to hold up under adversity. It takes nothing at all to cave in and prop up those bastards.

It also takes nothing at all to sit on your ass in a debate all day with a college student who has nothing better to do than keep feeding you crap.

I'm curious how long Wal-Mart can manage this, though. I personally feel it's only a matter of time before a) Wal-Mart employees unionize and force increased, b) other businesses become competitive enough to offer the similar goods at similarly low prices (I've already seen a great deal of it at the local Meijer--a midwest US chain) or c) wholesalers and manufacturers tire with the aggressive bargaining tactics of Wal-Mart (or just refuse to accept Wal-Mart's wholesaler unfriendly demands).

Also, I've seen increased demonization of Wal-Mart in the past 6 months. The documentary/whistle-blower chorus seems to be warming up for singing Wal-Mart's decry for at least the next few years. That means that public opinion (unless suitable alternative choruses arrise which paint a nicer picture of Wal-Mart) will likely turn against Wal-Mart's business practices for one reason or another. That of course means that it won't be long before politicians jump on the band wagon and begin threatening and possibly enacting anti-Wal-Mart legislation and action.

I think Wal-Mart's place at the top of the market, and at the bottom of the price list can only be temporary, given the changing retail climate.
Everything is, in essence, temporary. Change is an integral part of the way the universe is constructed. That's the little engine that drives processes like evolution ... adapt or die. The same applies in the world of business. It's like the Red Queen said in Through The Looking Glass: "You have to run as fast as you can just to stay in the same place." :)

It also takes nothing at all to sit on your ass in a debate all day with a college student who has nothing better to do than keep feeding you crap.

Yeah, I wasn't going to mention it, but your posts do seem a little whiffy...

So I'm supposed to hold their hands and reassure them they're only doing what they have to in order to get by?

Look, I've stood in line at foodbanks at the lowest ebbs of my adult life. I've gone without - had to get haircuts at barber colleges, clothing second-hand, and walk across town to job interviews 'cause I couldn't budget bus fare.

And yet I've never shopped at Wal-Mart. Even if it meant going without food for stretches as long as three days. I am principled, and I will not support the misery machine that Wal-Mart is for far too many people.

If that seems tough, try walking a mile in my shoes before you cut me down.
I was in no way trying to “cut you down” I was just trying to get you to step back before blindly accusing a whole section of people of cowardice … aren’t generalizations fun.

And I have done a lot of the stuff you have … I have never qualified for assistance but I have worked three jobs … I have gone days without food I have slept in my truck for a few months … I know where you are coming from

I also choose not to shop at Wal-Mart
But I don’t assume that other people act from my point of view … I think they are making a mistake shopping there but I do not necessarily consider it cowardice that those in different situations hold different priorities then I do

I make do with out … others have other priorities in their life … I refuse to get on a high horse and attempt to deride anyone because their choices are not mine

I let my money do the talking on this matter

Everything is, in essence, temporary. Change is an integral part of the way the universe is constructed. That's the little engine that drives processes like evolution ... adapt or die. The same applies in the world of business. It's like the Red Queen said in Through The Looking Glass: "You have to run as fast as you can just to stay in the same place." :)
Definitely, big time. I feel worst when I'm first at something or the best in the class. It's so unclear what you need to do to stay there and maintainance seems much harder than expansion.

Walmart is a very unethical company, thats for sure. I like how they got shafted two monthes ago, when a german court trew out some rules from their employees handbook and mandated others to be amended. The rules were cutting in on personal rights, tried to curb the unions or violated human dignity. Bad supermarket, no spying on employees!

Definitely, big time. I feel worst when I'm first at something or the best in the class. It's so unclear what you need to do to stay there and maintainance seems much harder than expansion.
Just remember what we use to say in the Airborne Infantry: "Pain is temporary. Glory is forever. And women admire the scars!" :D

To support Wal-Mart is treachery at every level.

You're betraying the workers of your own country by not buying their stuff.

You're betraying your own community by sending money out and contributing to its loss of character in an increasingly uniform corporate world.

You're betraying the workers of foreign countries by endorsing the nightmare conditions that they have to work in.

et cetera

To support Wal-Mart is treachery at every level.

You're betraying the workers of your own country by not buying their stuff.

You're betraying the workers of foreign countries by endorsing the nightmare conditions that they have to work in.

et cetera
Well they sell about the same general crap as every other major retailer

You guys seriously should watch the south park episode on wal mart, it shows you how dumb you all are being.

Um. No it doesn't. Several people said that they don't like walmart and don't shop at wal-mart. The South Park episode says "if you don't like walmart, don't shop there." It never said "walmart is just fine and we should all shop there."

Just because you like South Park, and are a Republican doesn't make you a "South Park Republican." Which is a bullshit phrase anyway. The South Park guys have as much crap to pile on the mainstream right as they do on the farthest reaches of what passes for the American left.

And part of capitalism is our ability to choose where to spend our money depending on if we agree or disagree with business practices

Yes, but part of capitalism, as put forth by Adam Smith, is that it is the government's job to step in and put down some limits on business groups that become so big and so powerful that they have a harmful effect on society.

It became clear that walmart crossed that threshold when they created their first economic ghost town. Walmart is an economic vampire. Draining towns of their vitality, making them copies of itself, and then leaving lifeless husks in its wake.

I suppose that my Christian attitude towards treating others like you would want to be treated yourself tends to cloud my judgement :rolleyes:

The conservative Golden Rule.
He who has the Gold makes the Rules.

They should be, everyone deserves at least a decent standard of living. How can we claim the moral highground if we allow our companies to do this?

Because no one else can afford the moral highground. :D

And part of capitalism is our ability to choose where to spend our money depending on if we agree or disagree with business practices

I'd appreciate you not put words in my mouth.

I'd appreciate you not put words in my mouth.
I didn’t I expanded with my own words I in no way misconstrued your original statement

I didn’t I expanded with my own words I in no way misconstrued your original statement

No. This is what you did.. you tried to expand on my statement and it made it seem like I believe that, when I absolutely don't. I stand by the right of walmart to do business and guess what? I go there every now and then to shop. That's my right.

No. This is what you did.. you tried to expand on my statement and it made it seem like I believe that, when I absolutely don't. I stand by the right of walmart to do business and guess what? I go there every now and then to shop. That's my right.
No I made it seem like I believe that … if I wanted to make it seem like you were the one that believes that I would have worded it much different … as is I just expanded on a point with one of my own

All very standard

And it is absolutely your right to choose to shop there as it is mine to choose not to … got to love freedom

Thank you. Walmart isnt doing anything that the other franchises or stores arent doing ..so they are the big evil empire? Well how about boycotting all the rest of the low paying stores etc.? You wouldnt have anywhere to go. Commercial service and food service industries are relatively low paying jobs. My mom works at Walmart and it can be frustrating but they do get some benefits that nobody here acknowledges. Try to get profit sharing at McD's or bonuses from Kmart. I am on a budget so HELL yes Im going to shop there where you can get the same item for 5 bucks less. They arent bankrupting CVS or Walgreens because they just built them both up here . The only businesses going out of business are those that cant compete and I certainly cant afford their prices. If you hate the store by all means go blow that large wad of cash you have at Chez Moneybags boutique but dont call those of us who want to keep some money cowards or consumerites because we dont agree.

To support Wal-Mart is treachery at every level.

You're betraying the workers of your own country by not buying their stuff.

You're betraying your own community by sending money out and contributing to its loss of character in an increasingly uniform corporate world.

You're betraying the workers of foreign countries by endorsing the nightmare conditions that they have to work in.

et cetera



Amen! Down with the evil, outsourcing corporate giant!

Like Sezyou, I also am on a budget.. one of my friends works at Walmart and he's fine with it. He needs the money because he is also a college student. Walmart has prices that are in my grasps. Additionally, Walgreens and CVS are not going out of business.

yes that was harsh, im refering to only the non-teenagers, college students, and elderly.

If you are 26-49 and not in one of the catagories above and you are working at wal mart, you deserve what you got handed to you because youve been trash throughout your life due to your poor choices. There is no such thing as luck when it comes to life, as the saying goes you get what you put in.

I realize that people aren't supposed to engage in direct personal insults, but rather speak to the comments that are made. Your comments however, don't really warrent reply. You yourself are a vile, ammoral piece of filth.

Your proposition that people are worth, only what they're actually worth, in monetary terms, is probably one of the most hateful perspectives that a human being can take in this world.

In any economy, short of space opera level mechinized ones, the bulk of the work is going to be work that requires no special education, but simply some on the job training. These people are still entitled to a living wage. Without their labor right wing elitist douche-bags like you wouldn't have a perch from which to preach your superiority.

The value that these jobs are given is a function of lobbying and political organization on the part of those jobs, not the value of the job itself. Why do you think so much violence has been employed to keep wages of key jobs low over the years? Here and abroad.

For example. There is no special brilliance needed to become a doctor. Especially some of the most lucrative practices like dermatology. But it remains a lucrative job because of an artificial obstacle to entering that market. You have to spend a year or two working 36 hour shifts, making life or death decisions on an hour or two of sleep a week. That doesn't speak for the talent of the perspective doctor, actual surgeons get to have a full nights sleep every day, and yet the residency requirement remains, for no other purpose but to artificially inflate the salary of a doctor.

All salaries are kept at a given level (whether high or low) by artificial means. When our companies want to get people off their farms to work in their oil refineries, the just pollute the land so badly that farms become unproductive. When people try to bargain for a decent salary, Walmart fires them.

Oh, and your moral relativism is also quite sickening. There is nothing courageous about firing people who want more money. The courage is demonstrated by those who stand up to the giants, not by the giants who crush them.

Like Sezyou, I also am on a budget.. one of my friends works at Walmart and he's fine with it. He needs the money because he is also a college student. Walmart has prices that are in my grasps. Additionally, Walgreens and CVS are not going out of business.



I'm on a budget too, and I'd rather starve before supporting the mistreatment of others!

They already do. If people didn’t think they could earn a relatively good living doing it, they wouldn’t leave their farms to go work there.

They aren't lured from their farms by jobs that pay better than farming. They're driven from their farms by easily bribed corrupt dictatorships. Why do you think we spend so much money overthrowing governments in foreign countries to install military dictatorships?

Democracies will demand labor laws, good pay, environmental protection (nothing extreme, just things like "don't pour so much gasoline into the river that you kill all the crops on the farms downstream and drive everyone into your factories and refineries).

Military dictatorships will demand business standards that will cost those companies hundreds of millions, until those corporations offer him ones of millions to look the other way. We like dictatorships like that.

I'm on a budget too, and I'd rather starve before supporting the mistreatment of others!

Mistreatment? give me a damn break. You don't even know what mistreatment is. At least they have jobs, and at least they get paid.. like my friend. :rolleyes: Anti-capitalists.

Like Sezyou, I also am on a budget.. one of my friends works at Walmart and he's fine with it. He needs the money because he is also a college student. Walmart has prices that are in my grasps. Additionally, Walgreens and CVS are not going out of business.

But if Walmart wasn't in the neighboorhood then there'd be more jobs that pay better with local mechanics (driven out of business by the auto center) local independent toy stores, supermarkets, etc. Sure, they'd charge a bit more than walmart, but people would be earning more, and that money would be staying in the community. When Walmart shows up, it makes money by selling you stuff, pays the town less than that to sell stuff to itself, and sends the profits to Alabama. And then when the walmart goes out of business because there isn't enough money left in the town to support a walmart, it closes down, and no one in the town has the capital needed to start up the businesses that were driven out when walmart showed up. It's bad for everyone, except walmart.

Mistreatment? give me a damn break. You don't even know what mistreatment is. At least they have jobs, and at least they get paid.. like my friend. :rolleyes: Anti-capitalists.



Their selling out our own country by outsourcing jobs to other countries, and their paying individuals in the countries the outsource to next to nil. And what do the workers here make at Wal-Mart? Minimum wage! I guarantee you that the only way Wal-mart will raise the salary of the worker is by being forced to by a government that raises the minimum wage. These are people just like you and me, and they deserve to be treated as such! I'm certain that, if they had the alternative, they would get a job that paid more than chicken feed, but, as Wal-Mart squashes all local competition, that's not an option!

When Walmart shows up, it makes money by selling you stuff, pays the town less than that to sell stuff to itself, and sends the profits to Alabama. And then when the walmart goes out of business because there isn't enough money left in the town to support a walmart, it closes down, and no one in the town has the capital needed to start up the businesses that were driven out when walmart showed up. It's bad for everyone, except walmart.

This is fundamentally bad logic. If you can't adapt to a changing market place, well your time is up.

This is fundamentally bad logic. If you can't adapt to a changing market place, well your time is up.



We're humans! We are superior creatures, we should be above the social Darwinism that permeates the animal kingdom! We have compassion and souls! We should look out for each other, not just ourselves!

Their selling out our own country by outsourcing jobs to other countries, and their paying individuals in the countries the outsource to next to nil. And what do the workers here make at Wal-Mart? Minimum wage! I guarantee you that the only way Wal-mart will raise the salary of the worker is by being forced to by a government that raises the minimum wage. These are people just like you and me, and they deserve to be treated as such! I'm certain that, if they had the alternative, they would get a job that paid more than chicken feed, but, as Wal-Mart squashes all local competition, that's not an option!

Here we go with the hollow outsourcing argument. Outsourcing actually creates more jobs at home and produces more money back home. I'll support who I want when I want, and I will continue to refute your lies. This is how capitalism works.

We're humans! We are superior creatures, we should be above the social Darwinism that permeates the animal kingdom! We have compassion and souls! We should look out for each other, not just ourselves!

Now you are going off into little tangents that I don't even bring up. You don't even understand my own damn argument.. maybe if you would actually read my posts you wouldn't be making statements like that!

And one thing it is funny how there are more strip malls being built around here and more small stores, even when Walmart has set up business not too far away. Also Target is here with several huge stores. And plenty of competition.

Here we go with the hollow outsourcing argument. Outsourcing actually creates more jobs at home and produces more money back home. I'll support who I want when I want, and I will continue to refute your lies. This is how capitalism works.


Outsourcing is boosting the Chinese economy at the expense of our own and giving their quasi-dictatorial regime the power they will need to become the next superpower. If we kept the jobs at home, this wouldn't be an issue!

Mistreatment? give me a damn break. You don't even know what mistreatment is. At least they have jobs, and at least they get paid.. like my friend. :rolleyes: Anti-capitalists.

I'll pay you a nickel a piece to shove cinder blocks up your ass. If you don't do it, I'll hire someone else to do it for you for 6 cents a piece, but I'm going to sue you for the extra expense I had to go to because of your laziness.

Walmart isn't capitalism. Walmart is corpratism. The dichotomy you present of "Walmart or nothing" is a false one. Without walmart, independent business grows and provides more jobs for better pay.

Capitalism means (among other things) that when a particular corporation has grown so powerful that it is has a harmful effect on society, then the government is obliged to step in and either stop it, or break it up so that it can't do that sort of thing anymore. Go and read Wealth of Nations before you go throwing around phrases like "anti-calitalist."

Now you are going off into little tangents that I don't even bring up. You don't even understand my own damn argument.. maybe if you would actually read my posts you wouldn't be making statements like that!



If you can't adapt to a changing market place, well your time is up.




Enough said.

Outsourcing is boosting the Chinese economy at the expense of our own and giving their quasi-dictatorial regime the power they will need to become the next superpower. If we kept the jobs at home, this wouldn't be an issue!

You don't know what outsourcing really is. Outsourcing is boosting our own economy and boosting our own profits. Oh yes, the Chinese economy. The one I talked about in other threads that will be hitting recession pretty soon. Next super power my rear end. We are actually creating more jobs because of outsourcing.

Walmart isn't capitalism. Walmart is corpratism. The dichotomy you present of "Walmart or nothing" is a false one. Without walmart, independent business grows and provides more jobs for better pay.

Capitalism means (among other things) that when a particular corporation has grown so powerful that it is has a harmful effect on society, then the government is obliged to step in and either stop it, or break it up so that it can't do that sort of thing anymore. Go and read Wealth of Nations before you go throwing around phrases like "anti-calitalist."

I already proved how this is wrong in so many ways. Even with walmart, independent businesses still grow and provides jobs. I cited an example of this.

Thank you. Walmart isnt doing anything that the other franchises or stores arent doing ..so they are the big evil empire? Well how about boycotting all the rest of the low paying stores etc.? You wouldnt have anywhere to go. Commercial service and food service industries are relatively low paying jobs. My mom works at Walmart and it can be frustrating but they do get some benefits that nobody here acknowledges. Try to get profit sharing at McD's or bonuses from Kmart. I am on a budget so HELL yes Im going to shop there where you can get the same item for 5 bucks less. They arent bankrupting CVS or Walgreens because they just built them both up here . The only businesses going out of business are those that cant compete and I certainly cant afford their prices. If you hate the store by all means go blow that large wad of cash you have at Chez Moneybags boutique but dont call those of us who want to keep some money cowards or consumerites because we dont agree.

Fortunatly in New York the independent businesses are still getting by. I get my medicine from the pharmacy on the corner. I get my hardware from the hardware store around the corner. Met Food, is still a chain store, but at least it's a mostly local chain store, and I've never seen a Silver Barn except the one near me. It's getting harder and harder to find an independent video store though, and no one can tell me that Blockbuster hasn't been bad for movies.

You don't know what outsourcing really is. Outsourcing is boosting our own economy and boosting our own profits. Oh yes, the Chinese economy. The one I talked about in other threads that will be hitting recession pretty soon. Next super power my rear end. We are actually creating more jobs because of outsourcing.



Yes, I suppose if you count foreign citizens as Americans because they are employed by an American company, I guess you could count those jobs as ours :rolleyes:

Yes, I suppose if you count foreign citizens as Americans because they are employed by an American company, I guess you could count those jobs as ours :rolleyes:

Dude, wake up! For goodness sakes, do you even know what outsourcing is? It creates more jobs back at home and creates more wealth back at home. You are the typical kind of person who adheres to a false philosophy built on false ideas.

Dude, wake up! For goodness sakes, do you even know what outsourcing is? It creates more jobs back at home and creates more wealth back at home. You are the typical kind of person who adheres to a false philosophy built on false ideas.



1. The jobs created far outnumber the jobs LOST. Gaining a few supervisors here to monitor the workers there does NOT negate the many jobs lost here.

2. The only people who benefit from outsourcing are the coporations themselves. If they kept the jobs here, the rest of us would benefit from having jobs and employment here, which would boost the economy as people would have actual money to spend.

3. I'm not a dude!!!!! :mad:

1. The jobs created far outnumber the jobs LOST. Gaining a few supervisors here to monitor the workers there does NOT negate the many jobs lost here.

The jobs created here back at home are far more then those outsourced. Why is unemployment falling? You need to read up on economics. You follow a typically false method.

2. The only people who benefit from outsourcing are the coporations themselves. If they kept the jobs here, the rest of us would benefit from having jobs and employment here, which would boost the economy as people would have actual money to spend.


Not actually the consumers are benefiting from the outsourcing. The economy here has been boosted. Unemployment has fallen to 5%, the lowest level in four years and consumers have more spending power.

Honestly, that has to be the most disgusting political leaning I have ever heard of. Tell me, how does it feel to think that you know not only how everyone should live their lives, but how every industry should run?


what on earth are you talking about? That is the most retarded thing I have had the misfortune of hearing today.

classical definition of liberalism:

lib ·er·al·ism Audio pronunciation of "liberalism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr--lzm, lbr-)
n.

1. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.

2. An economic theory in favor of laissez-faire, the free market, and the gold standard.



So, how do you equate laissez-faire economics WITH CONTROLLING THE MARKETPLACE?

idiot.

I already proved how this is wrong in so many ways. Even with walmart, independent businesses still grow and provides jobs. I cited an example of this.

I haven't seen you cite a single example of you "proving" that any of what I said was wrong. It isn't creating business when there's a net loss of economic activity, especially when it shifts all of that economic activity to siphon all the money out of it.

I may have missed something in 8 pages, but if you really have given any examples of how business is created by Walmart then please post a link or a quote pointing out what you think is a proof of your thesis when I've clearly missed it as either not making the point you defend, or not clearly making it. I've noticed that you seem to think that stating your opinion counts as "proof" and "refutation." It counts as neither unless you can point to an example, or can demonstrate your causal logic. The idea that sending our jobs overseas creates more jobs here is counter-intuitive. You've said that it's the case over and over again, but have yet to demonstrate that, or even how, this might be the case.

So the thing you claim to have proven false is the notion that in capitalism the government is expected to intervene when powerful business interests act to the detriment business as a whole by limiting competition. Walmart drives out competing businesses because their enormous financial backing allows even their inferior products to outmarket smaller scale enterprises.

For example, people won't go to a local garage mechanic when they can go to Walmart auto center. The mechanic then must either accept a fraction of his old earnings and work for whatever salary Walmart will pay him, or move somewhere else. A friend of mine was a mechanic in Pennsylvania, then walmart showed up. Now he's a mechanic in New York.

I'll apologize for being a bit unreasonable. I should consider other opinions more. I was a bit upset in my other postings. Yes I think Wal-mart should raise prices marginally, as well as raise earnings for its employees.

Not to worry, Wal-Mart will soon be the leader of the World Government and capable of telling all countries where they can get off......

Outsourcing, simplified example:
ACME wants to make more profit and its toothpick factory doesnt turn in much.
They pay 100 workers 1000$ a month and 10 managers 2000$ monthly. Add 10k for material energy etc and they have fixed costs of 130.000$ a month. They sell the produce for 150k, meaning the mother company earns 20k and employs 110 people. Money left in the US economy: 150K.
Now the see that timber and workforce are cheaper in, say, Lowincomistan, so they outsource their production. Half the managers get transferred, five additional logistic experts get employed and 100 workers get the boot.
The workers in Lowincomistan get 400$ every thirty days, the managers at home still get 2000$, the ones abroad get 2500$, to make up for the inconvenience, and the experts get 1500$. Add in the material etc for 5k (due to low pay everything is cheaper in Lowincomistan) and lets sum it up.
40.000$ workers+22.500$ managers+7500$ logistics+5000$ timber=75.000$
Profit per month= 75.000 dollars. Total employees=115.
Sounds good, eh? More profit, more people employed. Except that the 100 workers dont benefit the american economy anymore, while the new workers buy everything at LCME. The 100 workers would spend their money up to 90%, while the larger profit is most likely to be dead capital, wasting away at bank accounts and not stimulating the economy. Oh, here is a final figure for the outsourcing model: Money left in America 92.500$

At this point I would like to recommend reading Fast Food Nation to anyone here who believes that Wal-Mart is anything less than morally reprehensible. It covers a lot on the way large corporations make their money.

I know that many other corporations are as bad, and that in some towns you wouldn't have anywhere else left to shop if you boycotted them all, but doesn't that tell you something? Aren't they screwing you over too?

I stopped shopping at Asda when they were bought by Wal-Mart (we don't get WM as such here in the UK). I never eat at McDonald's - I used to work there and it's not as bad as it appears to be in other countries, but the money they make is disgusting and I don't think the food is any good.

I just wish people would read more for themselves, as whenever I've explained things to people they seem horrified and do think more about where they shop. People have some strange misconceptions and just pootle through their lives, supporting companies that cause so much strife without even noticing. :rolleyes: