NationStates Jolt Archive


Game Theory: Nukes, Geneva and Morality

Leonstein
25-07-2005, 07:06
Some of you may be familiar with the concept of "Game Theory". If you aren't, browse Wiki, or google it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Theory

Looking at various, fairly simple games during my studies, I have increasingly come to the opinion that Game Theory is vastly underrated as far as its everyday applicability is concerned.

Most importantly for this discussion, I will focus on a single simple game that will be repeated for an infinite number of times. I will use Torture as an example.

***********************************Others
************************Torture*****************Don't Torture
America**Torture***********-10,-10*****************20,-20
********Don't Torture******-20,20******************10,10

In this table, you can see the two different strategies available to the two players, and a number presents the profit to be made from that strategy, depending on what the other side uses. The first number denotes the US's profit, the second the other's profit.

Now, if this game was played a limited number of times, and they would play in turns, then everyone would be tortured. Why? Because in the last turn, the player cannot be retaliated against, so he will torture. But the other player knows that he will do this, so he will torture in the second-last turn and so on.

But if the game is repeated forever - then that will not happen. Both sides have a choice, but both sides know that if they torture, the other side will retaliate, and everyone will be worse off.

So what happens in the real world? Everyone sits around a table and signs something called "The Geneva Convention".

The very same thing could be said for using nuclear weapons. Both sides know the other would retaliate, so they forfit some profit (nuking the others into the dust) to avoid losing more in the future (being nuked themselves).

Is that comparison valid? What do you think?
Can you think of more situations in which game theory can/should be applied in the real world?

Is Game Theory the long lost reasoning behind ethics and morality if you don't believe in Religion?
Leonstein
25-07-2005, 07:59
No one cares, hey?
Leonstein
26-07-2005, 01:14
One last Bump.
Doesn't anyone at least want to tell me that this is stupid and they disagree?
Ragbralbur
26-07-2005, 03:39
It's a good point, but it can be applied beyond just game theory.

Morality is an indication of how we would like society to work.
Economics is an indication of how society ends up working.

The system you have provided is an example of incentive-based analysis, which I find the best way to analyze any given situation and predict responses.

Incentives can be broken down into moral, social and economic incentives. Moral incentives tell you whether or not to do something based on how guilty you will feel after. Social incentives take this idea and apply to how society will react to the action you are taking. Economic incentives, of course, deal with how much money each action costs or provide. You've simplified these scenarios into one numeric value for the purposes of your demonstration, and it holds pretty well true.
Syniks
26-07-2005, 03:56
One last Bump.
Doesn't anyone at least want to tell me that this is stupid and they disagree?
Not particularly... :p
It's a good point, but it can be applied beyond just game theory.

Morality is an indication of how we would like society to work.
Economics is an indication of how society ends up working.

The system you have provided is an example of incentive-based analysis, which I find the best way to analyze any given situation and predict responses.

Incentives can be broken down into moral, social and economic incentives. Moral incentives tell you whether or not to do something based on how guilty you will feel after. Social incentives take this idea and apply to how society will react to the action you are taking. Economic incentives, of course, deal with how much money each action costs or provide. You've simplified these scenarios into one numeric value for the purposes of your demonstration, and it holds pretty well true.Nicely put.

I think Game Theory is underrated/ignored for the same reason Just War Theory is ignored... or any other form of "Least Harm"/"Exchange" theory... it is impossible to politicize it because it is based on a Low Order Abstraction.

If you can't politicize somthing, it is "useless" to discuss it.

It's really too bad, but what can you expect from a race that would rather be Political than Rational... :(

Mr.Misanthrope