NationStates Jolt Archive

There have been so many threads about 'what if your son/daughter were gay?" I thought I'd post the counter-point. What if your gay lover or friend announced their desire to pursue a relationship with someone (named or unspecific) of the opposite gender and no longer interested in same-sex relations?

Likely you'd have a different response regarding a friend vs a lover - but I thought it'd be easiest to have just one thread rather than two to discuss this - not to mention that by adding 'friend' it allows straight people into the conversation.

So, would you be open minded to their endeavor? Supportive? Would you try to get them to refrain from exploring their sexuality? Angry?

-looking forward to your reply.

(And I'll add my own response to this question later so as not to artificially 'lead' the thread)

It depends on the circumstances.

There have been so many threads about 'what if your son/daughter were gay?" I thought I'd post the counter-point. What if your gay lover or friend announced their desire to pursue a relationship with someone (named or unspecific) of the opposite gender and no longer interested in same-sex relations?

Likely you'd have a different response regarding a friend vs a lover - but I thought it'd be easiest to have just one thread rather than two to discuss this - not to mention that by adding 'friend' it allows straight people into the conversation.

So, would you be open minded to their endeavor? Supportive? Would you try to get them to refrain from exploring their sexuality? Angry?

-looking forward to your reply.

(And I'll add my own response to this question later so as not to artificially 'lead' the thread)
How cool would it be if you can say in a bar that you turned your lover Straight :D

I would be disappointed, in a way. I would first of all like to know his/her reasons

My lover wouldn't go straight. Once you go gay, you never stray. And I don't date bisexuals.

How cool would it be if you can say in a bar that you turned your lover Straight :D

I guess it would depend on what kind of bar! :)

If a friend of mine who was gay turned strait, what would I do? Probably give nothing more than an acknowledging statement. My role as a friend usually revolves around being blunt enough to tell people the truth when no one else will, thus, I’m not one to come to for emotional support.

I guess it would depend on what kind of bar! :)
Definately not the Blue Oyster Bar :D

If a friend of mine who was gay turned strait, what would I do? Probably give nothing more than an acknowledging statement. My role as a friend usually revolves around being blunt enough to tell people the truth when no one else will, thus, I’m not one to come to for emotional support.

My only concern is if it were a hot gay female friend that turned straight, I'd probably try to sleep with her.

My lover wouldn't go straight. One you go gay, you never stray. And I don't date bisexuals.


That is the same argument straight parents make about their children. There is no reasoning behind it. You've also dodged the question.

In the context of the question of the thread your response would indicate that if your lover went straight you would shut him/her out. Is this correct? What about a friend who is not a lover? How would you treat that person?

My only concern is if it were a hot gay female friend that turned straight, I'd probably try to sleep with her.


So then, I think I'll chalk that one up to 'fully support". :)

My only concern is if it were a hot gay female friend that turned straight, I'd probably try to sleep with her.

You mean you wouldn't be trying even when they were gay? Slacker.


I don't know how I'd deal with it. probably like any other break-up. which is why I don't know how I'd deal with it. if it was a friend, with whatever support they needed.

So then, I think I'll chalk that one up to 'fully support". :)

Well no matter what, I would support their decision. That's just the only circumstance I can think of where our relationship might change.

That is the same argument straight parents make about their children. There is no reasoning behind it. You've also dodged the question.

No, it isn't the same argument. Gay people don't "turn" straight all of a sudden. If they do, they weren't gay to begin with. The same thing with straight people.

In the context of the question of the thread your response would indicate that if your lover went straight you would shut him/her out. Is this correct? What about a friend who is not a lover? How would you treat that person?

A lover of mine who "went" straight would not be a lover of mine any more. Continuing to be my lover is contingent of wanting to suck my cock, to be crude. A straight man wouldn't want to do that, so the relationship would be over.

A friend who went "straight" would still be my friend. (S)He'd also be imaginary, but there ya go.

I have to agree with Fass. While it's fun to deal in hypotheticals, I don't think someone would just one day realize that they weren't gay anymore. The situation of the thread you're mimicing is the "coming out of the closet" scenario, where someone close to you admits to being gay. Gay people lie about being straight to avoid scrutiny and abuse from less open-minded folks. Nowhere would a straight person have to pretend to be gay to fit in and have to "come out of the closet" as a heterosexual.

Since I'm straight I don't think I'd have a gay lover so that wouldn't be a problem.

I have gay friends however. If they were to start to experiment and change their preference...all the power to them. It's not my place to question who they chose for love in their lives.

It would be very similar to what happened to a cousin of mine. Only she is straight and her husband later confessed that he is gay. They're divorced now. So I guess that if I was involved with someone and they said that they would rather be with someone of the opposite sex of what I am, I'd say go ahead. I'd cry and feel cheated, but I'd accept it. But I'm a bisexual who's celibate, so I doubt that I'd ever be in a situation like that.

I think the question is, would you be able to trust someone who changed preferences, gay to straight or vice versa, without telling those who care about them.

For me, love is based on openness and trust. If a person in my life were to reveal to me that they were gay/straight, I'd accept it without question. It is when a person hides their true feelings that gives me pause.

There have been so many threads about 'what if your son/daughter were gay?" I thought I'd post the counter-point. What if your gay lover or friend announced their desire to pursue a relationship with someone (named or unspecific) of the opposite gender and no longer interested in same-sex relations?

Likely you'd have a different response regarding a friend vs a lover - but I thought it'd be easiest to have just one thread rather than two to discuss this - not to mention that by adding 'friend' it allows straight people into the conversation.

So, would you be open minded to their endeavor? Supportive? Would you try to get them to refrain from exploring their sexuality? Angry?

-looking forward to your reply.

(And I'll add my own response to this question later so as not to artificially 'lead' the thread)
(Gay lover)
I would have some issues with them.
"You say you're straight. Then you say you're gay. Then you say you're straight. Why should I be support of you if you don't support yourself? Screw that. I'm outta here."
*Leaves*

(Friend)
I would still have some issues with them, but try to be supportive.
"I think you really need to find yourself, (Name). It seems to me you're really, really confused about this. Take some time and think stuff over."

For friends, I couldn't really care what their sexuality is either way. Why would I? Might as well care whether or not my friends have blue eyes or red hair. It doesn't change who they are (unless of course they change who they are because of it).

For lovers, I suppose it would kind of suck you know? I mean, having 'turned straight' they would no longer be willing to having a romantic relationship with you. Then again, being as sexual things aren't really on my 'wants' list, I suppose if we decided to be 'just friends' it wouldn't be all that different.

Here's my take on it;

Sexual attraction is known to change. Straight people discover they are gay. Gay people can discover they are not. I suspect it has more to do with the chemistry between people. A gay person could fall in love with a particular woman. A straight woman could fall for a gay woman. There are an unlimited variety of reasons why but they all potentially could result in a change of preference - either temporary or permanent.

If one of my gay friends were to confront me with their desire for heterosexuality my first reaction would be to question it. (starting with "why are you telling ME?) I would ask about their motive, what steps they want to take next and how they feel about it.

If their reasons were legit I would support them. if their reasons were bogus (parental pressure, object of affection is rich, etc.) then I would probably NOT support them.

Oh, and even if she were hot I'd still not hit on her... much.

In the case of a lover: well, if she was bisexual, I'd understand, and just treat it like any other breakup. If she was a lesbian, I'd be very miffed, wonder if it was really about me or if she was just using me to begin with, unless it seemed clear that she was confused and still figuring things out.

In the case of a friend: I'd be very, very surprised. Especially when I consider a particular gay friend of mine. I would be incredibly confused if he told me he was straight.

Here's my take on it;

Sexual attraction is known to change. Straight people discover they are gay. Gay people can discover they are not. I suspect it has more to do with the chemistry between people. A gay person could fall in love with a particular woman. A straight woman could fall for a gay woman. There are an unlimited variety of reasons why but they all potentially could result in a change of preference - either temporary or permanent.

If one of my gay friends were to confront me with their desire for heterosexuality my first reaction would be to question it. (starting with "why are you telling ME?) I would ask about their motive, what steps they want to take next and how they feel about it.

If their reasons were legit I would support them. if their reasons were bogus (parental pressure, object of affection is rich, etc.) then I would probably NOT support them.

Oh, and even if she were hot I'd still not hit on her... much.

As a general rule, this is untrue.

But I am not surprised you would further a myth that is condemned by the AMA, American Psychiatric Association, and American Psychological Association.

*claps*

After the initial "What the deuce?!", I'd accept it and move on. They'd still be my friend, although things would be a little different.

I'm straight, so no gay lovers for me ;) . If I were, however, I'd accept it and move on; it takes a hell of a lot more than an orientation switch to throw me off.

As a general rule, this is untrue.

But I am not surprised you would further a myth that is condemned by the AMA, American Psychiatric Association, and American Psychological Association.

*claps*


Cling tightly to your absolutes.

i have close gay friends. they are all mature adults. if one announced that he or she was going straight, i would talk to him/her about WHY and make sure that it wasnt a futile attempt to keep her child/be more accepted in society/find a woman to marry so he could have kids.... kind of thing.

if they decided that they had make a huge mistake in identifying their sexual orientation at this late date, id be supportive. sort of. considering that id be sure that it would fail. but id be there for them if they needed someone to talk to.

bozzy:

Sexuality isn't a lightswitch. In fact you have no evidence that sexuality can change, when in fact it cannot. Gay people cannot change anymore then straight people. That's funny you said only gay people can change.. it shows your argument reeks with the christian agenda.

I'd try finding out if they'd been targeted by one of those Southern Baptist anti-homosexual "cure" programs, the ones that claim they'll turn gays straight. Then hopefully, breaking through and de-programming the poor fellow.

I'd try finding out if they'd been targeted by one of those Southern Baptist anti-homosexual "cure" programs, the ones that claim they'll turn gays straight. Then hopefully, breaking through and de-programming the poor fellow.

The most famous one is Exodus international. I heard a lot of stories about them, and how they have a consistent record of failure (there were tests done on their "success cases", and showed they still were attracted to the same sex).

So homo's can't go straight and straight's can't go homo? What the hell are bi's? A bunch of confused individuals? Or blessed emotionally and sexually beyond straights and homo's, being as they are sexually attracted and fulfilled by both sexes!? If gays can't go straight and straights can't go gay.. then bi's can never go straight or gay? I'm seriously asking the ones that said so and so cant turn anything this question.. not being sarcastic.

I personally believe occurances in ones life could cause a person to change what they find attractive... possibly.

So homo's can't go straight and straight's can't go homo? What the hell are bi's? A bunch of confused individuals? Or blessed emotionally and sexually beyond straights and homo's, being as they are sexually attracted and fulfilled by both sexes!? If gays can't go straight and straights can't go gay.. then bi's can never go straight or gay? I'm seriously asking this question.. not being sarcastic.

Bisexuals are those attracted to both genders. That's not wrong. I'm not one of those gay guys who think bisexuality is false. I actually think it exists. Sexuality is not a light switch. It is something you are born with, and it develops in puberty. Your question doesn't stand. No one can change their sexuality, no matter what brainwashing you put them through. A bisexual person could be dating a girl at the time, but still be attracted to men.

I personally believe occurances in ones life could cause a person to change what they find attractive... possibly.

One of the many arguments set forward by christian conservatives... not really true.

I have to agree with Fass. While it's fun to deal in hypotheticals, I don't think someone would just one day realize that they weren't gay anymore. The situation of the thread you're mimicing is the "coming out of the closet" scenario, where someone close to you admits to being gay. Gay people lie about being straight to avoid scrutiny and abuse from less open-minded folks. Nowhere would a straight person have to pretend to be gay to fit in and have to "come out of the closet" as a heterosexual.

Not even in San Francisco? ;)

Cling tightly to your absolutes.

LOL.

Gee, quick quiz: between your post and mine, who was it that came closer to stating an absolute?

Hint: It wasn't me! :eek:

Oh, the irony, the irony. :D

:p

bozzy:

Sexuality isn't a lightswitch. In fact you have no evidence that sexuality can change, when in fact it cannot. Gay people cannot change anymore then straight people. That's funny you said only gay people can change.. it shows your argument reeks with the christian agenda. (bolded by Bozzy)

My you seem a bit defensive! Is that your standard mode? Shout 'Christian agenda!" at anyone who you find threatening to your ideals? Your observation of what I said is not only quite inaccurate it is also quite humerous.

Anything else you'd like to put in my mouth while you're at it? Maybe a "glory glory halleluliajh!" or a "yeyas!! Praaaaize Jeeazus!" for good measure? Maybe you'd rather to exclude other parts of my posts as well? Would you like my PW so you can just edit my post to say what you really wish it said?

Regarding changing sexuality - it is not uncommon at all for people to be confused about their sexuality - particularly adolescents, teens and young adults. Not everyone can work it out overnight. Nor do they all come to the same conclusion.

My you seem a bit defensive! Is that your standard mode? Shout 'Christian agenda!" at anyone who you find threatening to your ideals? Your observation of what I said is not only quite inaccurate it is also quite humerous.

Oh come on. You are the one who has been saying sexuality can change, and you tout falsehoods that they do.

Maybe you'd rather to exclude other parts of my posts as well? Would you like my PW so you can just edit my post to say what you really wish it said?

I actually went through your post questioning key parts of your logic. You failed to respond to those challenges.

Regarding changing sexuality - it is not uncommon at all for people to be confused about their sexuality - particularly adolescents, teens and young adults. Not everyone can work it out overnight. Nor do they all come to the same conclusion.

People can be confused, but in no way can they change their sexuality. You aren't taking things into proper context.

Typical of someone who doesn't have an argument... and is horribly anti-gay.

LOL.

Gee, quick quiz: between your post and mine, who was it that came closer to stating an absolute?

Hint: It wasn't me! :eek:

Oh, the irony, the irony. :D

:p

You try so hard to sound trite, but instead come off only.. lame.

You try so hard to sound trite, but instead come off only.. lame.

I'll have to concede to the expert.

But, pray tell, why are the AMA and APA wrong? Please show us those studies you conducted. :p

I'll have to concede to the expert.
gawd you can be fun! :) (yes, your sarcasm is noted)

But, pray tell, why are the AMA and APA wrong? Please show us those studies you conducted. :p
AMA and APA both acknowledge that confusion about sexual orientation is a reasonably common occurrance - particularly among young people. Only a fool would deny that. A person may be born 'straight' or 'gay' - but they don't necessarily act that way all of the time.

Right now it is somewhat socially acceptable for women in particular to experement with homosexual bhavior. That does not neccessarily make them lesbians - however it does preclude the possibility that they could engage in a lesbian relationship.


Interesting side note - It is well founded that the incidents of homosexuality are higher among the mentally ill than the general population. Do you suppose homosexual behavior can be an effect of some mental illnesses or is it that homosexuals are more likely to suffer from mental illness?

My only concern is if it were a hot gay female friend that turned straight, I'd probably try to sleep with her.
Man-I first read your response before I looked at who posted...and thought, man that sounds like something Sdaeriji would say...and then it was you!

I would be as supportive to this friend as I would to any other friend who had a change in their sexual preference...it is their life...who am I to say how they should lead it? plus, I have no problem with homosexuality, heterosexuality, or anything between.

AMA and APA both acknowledge that confusion about sexual orientation is a reasonably common occurrance - particularly among young people. Only a fool would deny that. A person may be born 'straight' or 'gay' - but they don't necessarily act that way all of the time.

Right now it is somewhat socially acceptable for women in particular to experement with homosexual bhavior. That does not neccessarily make them lesbians - however it does preclude the possibility that they could engage in a lesbian relationship.


Interesting side note - It is well founded that the incidents of homosexuality are higher among the mentally ill than the general population. Do you suppose homosexual behavior can be an effect of some mental illnesses or is it that homosexuals are more likely to suffer from mental illness?

ah the eternal question of cause and effect...which came first...
as far as a mental illness standpoint...the DSM-IV does not list homosexuality or heterosexuality as a mental illness, though homosexuality was in the original DSM until the 1970's. However, it should be noted that the DSM-IV does have Gender Identity Disorder...which in my opinion is a poorly defined disorder because of its vagueness and its few specificities

Wait....isn't homosexuality a natural thing? How could somebody "revert" from a natural trait?

If people are able to "revert" from homosexuality, then sexuality is a choice, not a given thing from birth, no?

Wait....isn't homosexuality a natural thing? How could somebody "revert" from a natural trait?

If people are able to "revert" from homosexuality, then sexuality is a choice, not a given thing from birth, no?

There is a difference between being confused about your sexual orientation and being homosexual. It may not be apparent on the surface, but it is signifigant.

AMA and APA both acknowledge that confusion about sexual orientation is a reasonably common occurrance - particularly among young people. Only a fool would deny that. A person may be born 'straight' or 'gay' - but they don't necessarily act that way all of the time.

Who says sexual orientation is an act? You really need to go back to your own logic, which is full of holes.



Right now it is somewhat socially acceptable for women in particular to experement with homosexual bhavior. That does not neccessarily make them lesbians - however it does preclude the possibility that they could engage in a lesbian relationship.

It does make them in fact bisexual, if they are attracted to men.

Interesting side note - It is well founded that the incidents of homosexuality are higher among the mentally ill than the general population. Do you suppose homosexual behavior can be an effect of some mental illnesses or is it that homosexuals are more likely to suffer from mental illness?

Incidents of homosexuality are higher among the mentally ill? No that's an urban legend. A myth. And inherently is not true. Homosexuality is not caused by any mental illness.

ah the eternal question of cause and effect...which came first...
as far as a mental illness standpoint...the DSM-IV does not list homosexuality or heterosexuality as a mental illness, though homosexuality was in the original DSM until the 1970's. However, it should be noted that the DSM-IV does have Gender Identity Disorder...which in my opinion is a poorly defined disorder because of its vagueness and its few specificities


Homosexuality itself is inaccurate to describe as a mental illness. Mental disorders are characterized by abnormalities in cognition, emotion or mood, or the highest integrative aspects of behavior, such as social interactions or planning of future activities. For the vast number of homosexuals none of these things are a problem. (compared to a schitzophrenic or alcoholic)

This is not to be confused with the disproportional occurrance of homosexuality among the mentally ill. Are they all 'biologically' homosexual? Would that indicate that homosexuals are more prone to mental illness? Is it due to biology or social or a combination of? If they are not 'biologically' homosexual then that would indicate that, at least for some, homosexuality is either a choice, a symptom of mental illness, or some combination. It is a viable question and I am curious if it has been studied.

This is not to be confused with the disproportional occurrance of homosexuality among the mentally ill. Are they all 'biologically' homosexual? Would that indicate that homosexuals are more prone to mental illness? Is it due to biology or social or a combination of? If they are not 'biologically' homosexual then that would indicate that, at least for some, homosexuality is either a choice, a symptom of mental illness, or some combination. It is a viable question and I am curious if it has been studied.

I'd like to see some evidence showing that more homosexuals are mentally ill. This is totally wrong and you do not have any evidence to speak of to back up these claims. Homosexuality is not a choice (that's BS), is not a sympton of mental illness.. nor is it a combination. You have no evidence to back up your horrid claims let alone logic.

Who says sexual orientation is an act? You really need to go back to your own logic, which is full of holes.
I'm really not sure what your point is here. care to elaborate?



It does make them in fact bisexual, if they are attracted to men.
Someone who is confused about their sexual preference is what they say they are at the moment. Gay - straight or bi. It may take them a considerable amount of time to draw their own conclusion. readily slapping a lable on them based on your own perception of what they feel inside is not only presumptious, it is unhelpful - to say the least.



Incidents of homosexuality are higher among the mentally ill? No that's an urban legend. A myth. And inherently is not true. Homosexuality is not caused by any mental illness.
OK, I'll see you - here's my hand: http://www.amazinginfoonhomosexuals.com/general_issues.htm
"Whether one looks for mental illness among homosexuals or homosexuals among the mentally ill, the evidence clearly associates homosexuality with mental illness, a find not accounted for in terms of stigma, prejudice, and victimization of homosexuals. Recall that homosexuals are much more likely than heterosexuals to manifest multiple mental disorders in lifetime"
Now show me yours.

Someone who is confused about their sexual preference is what they say they are at the moment. Gay - straight or bi. It may take them a considerable amount of time to draw their own conclusion. readily slapping a lable on them based on your own perception of what they feel inside is not only presumptious, it is unhelpful - to say the least.

Gay, straight or bisexual. There is nothing in between. Those who are confused aren't fully accepting of themselves (partly because of people as yourself)...


OK, I'll see you - here's my hand: http://www.amazinginfoonhomosexuals.com/general_issues.htm
"Whether one looks for mental illness among homosexuals or homosexuals among the mentally ill, the evidence clearly associates homosexuality with mental illness, a find not accounted for in terms of stigma, prejudice, and victimization of homosexuals. Recall that homosexuals are much more likely than heterosexuals to manifest multiple mental disorders in lifetime"
Now show me yours.

Incorrect. That website is bogus in the least. In fact this so called evidence has been invalidated by numerous studies that shows homosexuality is not a mental illness, nor is pertained to a mental illness. In other words, don't accuse me of having a mental illness. Your website is false.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html

http://www.apa.org/pi/statemen.html

There is in fact no valid nor credible studies showing that homosexuality is in any way linked to a mental illness.

Well, if one of my friends told me he/she was gay it really wouldnt matter to me. The fact is that this shouldnt and wouldnt change the fact that he/she is my friend.

I cant really offer a response to the question of what I would do if my spouse/person I was involved with told me she was gay, I imagine I wouldnt be very happy and it could possibly cause me to have some psychological trauma.

Gay, straight or bisexual. There is nothing in between. Those who are confused aren't fully accepting of themselves (partly because of people as yourself)...



Ah, so it is instantanious. The "Gay" Fairy shows up at nights and hits you on the head and you wake up saying "Oh gawd! I just HAVE to get a new wardrobe!" Thanks for clearing that up. I always thought it involved a considerable amount of introspection, angst and confusion. How embarrasing for ME!


Incorrect. That website is bogus in the least. In fact this so called evidence has been invalidated by numerous studies that shows homosexuality is not a mental illness, nor is pertained to a mental illness. In other words, don't accuse me of having a mental illness. Your website is false.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html

http://www.apa.org/pi/statemen.html

There is in fact no valid nor credible studies showing that homosexuality is in any way linked to a mental illness.
LOL. So you want to play 'My source can beat up your source"? Must be pretty threatening to you. Particularly since you completely misread what the cited material was about. It does not call homosexuality a mental illness - it simply states (quite correctly) that mental illness is more frequent among homosexuals. I didn't accuse you of having a mental illness, I simply showed evidence that you are more likely to suffer from it.

Just becase you don't like the facts does not make them wrong. That is a dangerous mindset for you to carry through life.

Ah, so it is instantanious. The "Gay" Fairy shows up at nights and hits you on the head and you wake up saying "Oh gawd! I just HAVE to get a new wardrobe!" Thanks for clearing that up. I always thought it involved a considerable amount of introspection, angst and confusion. How embarrasing for ME!

Nice one on the ad hominems. Attack the ideas, not the person. You are the one providing a coherent argument.. and that's an issue I will keep bringing up over and over again. But then again, hateful people don't provide coherent arguments.. only rantings.

Particularly since you completely misread what the cited material was about. It does not call homosexuality a mental illness - it simply states (quite correctly) that mental illness is more frequent among homosexuals. I didn't accuse you of having a mental illness, I simply showed evidence that you are more likely to suffer from it.

It is quite incorrect. It does not corroborate any of its claims. Mental illness is not more frequent amongst homosexuals. Again, please show some actual evidence.. not some site published by some quack who has less credibility then Freud.

As far as I'm concerned your cited "material" is crap.

Just becase you don't like the facts does not make them wrong. That is a dangerous mindset for you to carry through life.

The facts stand in my area, not yours. Please get off your delusions and accept the links I posted that clearly show homosexuality is not, nor is it associated with a mental illness. You are the one who has the dangerous, and let alone disgusting mindset. But then again it is a quite little line that bigots bring up... "just because you don't like our "facts" (twisted statistics, and misrepresentations) doesn't make them wrong".

Get an argument.

LOL. So you want to play 'My source can beat up your source"? Must be pretty threatening to you. Particularly since you completely misread what the cited material was about. It does not call homosexuality a mental illness - it simply states (quite correctly) that mental illness is more frequent among homosexuals. I didn't accuse you of having a mental illness, I simply showed evidence that you are more likely to suffer from it.

Just becase you don't like the facts does not make them wrong. That is a dangerous mindset for you to carry through life.

1) That site does say homosexuality is a mental illness by trying to say the correlation between homosexuality and mental illness can have no other cause. It just doesn't say it directly.

2) It is logically fallicious. It tries say low self esteem in homosexuals is not caused by stigma and harrasment by comparing it to substantially different forms of cultural stigmas while ignoring more similar forms.

It uses racism and criminality of pedophilia as comparisons, but ignores bullying. Gay youth face social harrasment that is much more akin to bullying than the typical expressions of racism and is not in any way similar to criminal prosecution.

Victims of bullies display the same low self-esteem and associated mental illnesses as homosexuals. Thus the arguments the site presents are fallicious.

If my gay friend went straight, I would:

A.) Ask her out.

B.) Wash away the stink of rejection by flirting outrageously and drinking copiously at my favorite watering hole.

1) That site does say homosexuality is a mental illness by trying to say the correlation between homosexuality and mental illness can have no other cause. It just doesn't say it directly.

2) It is logically fallicious. It tries say low self esteem in homosexuals is not caused by stigma and harrasment by comparing it to substantially different forms of cultural stigmas while ignoring more similar forms.

It uses racism and criminality of pedophilia as comparisons, but ignores bullying. Gay youth face social harrasment that is much more akin to bullying than the typical expressions of racism and is not in any way similar to criminal prosecution.

Victims of bullies display the same low self-esteem and associated mental illnesses as homosexuals. Thus the arguments the site presents are fallicious.

I don't know if it's going to satisfy your concern, but that paper linked to has a whole page about. Stigma, Prejudice, Victimization, and Mental Health and the affect it may have (if any).

I haven't finished reading this thing, it's quite extensive/expansive, I'm surprised its so big and references so much stuff (hard to tell how much is real, or if any of it is nonsense), that could take awhile, but to dismiss it out of hand seems uncalled for.
http://www.amazinginfoonhomosexuals.com/victimization.htm


As to those people bragging that the APA and others removed homosexuality from the list of mental diseases, I wouldn’t go around pretending that this was any great achievement. Being on the list, or removed from the list, does not involve a case study, it involves ‘voting.’ And, much like the disability list, sexual attractions, or disorders, are not likely to be on the list at all, but only the very few would claim they were not disorders, just not diseases.

Homosexuality and bisexuality are not impairments and therefore are not covered by the ADA. The Act also states that the term "disability" does not include the following sexual and behavioral disorders: transvestitism, transsexualism, pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, gender identity disorders not resulting from physical impairments, or other sexual behavior disorders; compulsive gambling, kleptomania, or pyromania; or psychoactive substance use disorders resulting from current illegal use of drugs.
http://www.adata.org/whatsada-definition.html#maincontent

I’m not in the least bit impressed that something is not on that list. I consider many of those things not on the list to be ‘bad’ in my opinion.

Homosexuality is still not a mental illness and that website is moreso a collection of whack-jobs who think they can publish papers.

If a "straight" person suddenly announced they had turned "gay", or a "gay" person announced they were turning "straight", I would have to state the obvious to them: you were bisexual all along, you were just unaware of it or in denial of it. You will continue to be bisexual regardless of whom you are currently attracted to.

That said, if my lover announced he was switching to a mate of the opposite gender, I would shrug, wish him the best with that, let him know I am always here if he needs my emotional support, and move on. As I've said before, your doctor doesn't get upset if you go to a dentist for a toothache.

PS - my current boyfriend is one of these, he is on FIRE he is so bisexual. I have no idea which way he will choose to settle (maybe he will never settle on one or the other, and why should he?) so I am enjoying my time with him with no illusions about "forever". Who really can count on forever, anyway, regardless of sexuality?

I have to agree with Fass. While it's fun to deal in hypotheticals, I don't think someone would just one day realize that they weren't gay anymore. The situation of the thread you're mimicing is the "coming out of the closet" scenario, where someone close to you admits to being gay. Gay people lie about being straight to avoid scrutiny and abuse from less open-minded folks. Nowhere would a straight person have to pretend to be gay to fit in and have to "come out of the closet" as a heterosexual.

I've met scenarios where homosexuals became straight.

So it certainly is a valid question to pose.

In no way do I believe such is a hardwired phenomenon that no one is in control of. People are as much made up of their own choices; as they are their genes.

[QUOTE=Ph33rdom]I don't know if it's going to satisfy your concern, but that paper linked to has a whole page about. Stigma, Prejudice, Victimization, and Mental Health and the affect it may have (if any).

I haven't finished reading this thing, it's quite extensive/expansive, I'm surprised its so big and references so much stuff (hard to tell how much is real, or if any of it is nonsense), that could take awhile, but to dismiss it out of hand seems uncalled for.
http://www.amazinginfoonhomosexuals.com/victimization.htm

My second point was entirely about that paper. It is fallicious because it cherry picks dissimilar situations(racism, pedophilia) that seem to back up their case, while ignoring more similar situations(bullying) that work against their case.

Just because they can write a long paper and pepper it with references doesn't change the fact it is based on fallicious arguments.

Almost everyone is 'bisexual', to some degree, even if they won't admit it. It isn't like there are only three possible degrees of sexual orientation, 'straight', 'bi', and 'gay'... it's more of a gradual spectrum.

Anyway, back on topic... um... well, I keep pushing my boyfriend to get a girlfriend. I guess that answers the question, but... does that make me a weird boyfriend? :confused: :D

Nice one on the ad hominems. Attack the ideas, not the person. You are the one providing a coherent argument.. and that's an issue I will keep bringing up over and over again. But then again, hateful people don't provide coherent arguments.. only rantings.
-not exactly sure what your point is - maybe that you need a coffee? :)

It is quite incorrect. It does not corroborate any of its claims. Mental illness is not more frequent amongst homosexuals. Again, please show some actual evidence.. not some site published by some quack who has less credibility then Freud.
LOL. The site is well documentd and factual - but if you need more then here;

A study of twins that examined the relationship between homosexuality and suicide, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry,found that homosexuals with same-sex partners were at greater risk for overall mental health problems, and were 6.5 times more likely than their twins to have attempted suicide. The higher rate was not attributable to mental health or substance abuse disorders.
R. Herrell, et al., "A Co-Twin Study in Adult Men," Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (1999): 867-874

Another study published simultaneously in Archives of General Psychiatry followed 1,007 individuals from birth. Those classified as "gay," lesbian, or bisexual were significantly more likely to have had mental health problems. Significantly, in his comments on the studies in the same issue of the journal, D. Bailey cautioned against various speculative explanations of the results, such as the view that "widespread prejudice against homosexual people causes them to be unhappy or worse, mentally ill."
D. Fergusson, et al., "Is Sexual Orientation Related to Mental Health Problems and Suicidality in Young People?" Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (October 1999), p. 876-884.


As far as I'm concerned your cited "material" is crap.

go ahead, I'm sure the sand is at least as deep as your head.


The facts stand in my area, not yours. Please get off your delusions and accept the links I posted that clearly show homosexuality is not, nor is it associated with a mental illness. You are the one who has the dangerous, and let alone disgusting mindset. But then again it is a quite little line that bigots bring up... "just because you don't like our "facts" (twisted statistics, and misrepresentations) doesn't make them wrong".

Get an argument.
Why are you threatened by these facts? What agenda do you have? You have labled me 'anti-gay' - 'dangerous' and 'disgusting' among other things. All for having a respectful conversation about sexual confuusion and the rate of mental illness among homosexuals.

Throwing names and lables at people who are showing a clear and courteous interest in discussing topics relating to homosexuality is certainly not a way of lending credibility to yourself or endearing anyone to continue a conversation with you. I would suggest you re-evaluate the nature of how you wish to respond to this topic.

I'd give him a pat on the back and welcome him back to the Light Side of the Force. ;)

I'll be doing some debunking.

LOL. The site is well documentd and factual - but if you need more then here;

A study of twins that examined the relationship between homosexuality and suicide, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry,found that homosexuals with same-sex partners were at greater risk for overall mental health problems, and were 6.5 times more likely than their twins to have attempted suicide. The higher rate was not attributable to mental health or substance abuse disorders.
R. Herrell, et al., "A Co-Twin Study in Adult Men," Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (1999): 867-874

Who is funding this study? And let me ask you, why are homosexuals pushed to suicide? Because of people like you who are intolerant and push intolerance in this world. I'd really like to know who funded the study though. I'm curious.

Those classified as "gay," lesbian, or bisexual were significantly more likely to have had mental health problems. Significantly, in his comments on the studies in the same issue of the journal, D. Bailey cautioned against various speculative explanations of the results, such as the view that "widespread prejudice against homosexual people causes them to be unhappy or worse, mentally ill."

Wouldn't you be unhappy if there was widespread prejudice against you? Ask yourself that before you put the notion that gay, lesbian or bisexual people are more at risk of suicide because of their sexuality. It is society that does this. And why put gay in quotations?

D. Fergusson, et al., "Is Sexual Orientation Related to Mental Health Problems and Suicidality in Young People?" Archives of General Psychiatry 56 (October 1999), p. 876-884.

It is a misnomer. Sexual orientation is not related to mental health problems. Society is.



go ahead, I'm sure the sand is at least as deep as your head.

You're full of sh*t. Lets keep it at that. You can continue quoting your quacks who get funding from conservative sources.

Why are you threatened by these facts? What agenda do you have? You have labled me 'anti-gay' - 'dangerous' and 'disgusting' among other things. All for having a respectful conversation about sexual confuusion and the rate of mental illness among homosexuals.

These aren't facts. These are almost questionable. And you must question your motives.. gay people commit suicide more because of society, not their sexual orientation. Because of people like you. Sexual confusion? Mental illness? your quack artists still don't show corroboration for their studies. 1,000 is an inadequate amount of people. Just as is a poll for 1,000 in the country the size of the US.

Throwing names and lables at people who are showing a clear and courteous interest in discussing topics relating to homosexuality is certainly not a way of lending credibility to yourself or endearing anyone to continue a conversation with you. I would suggest you re-evaluate the nature of how you wish to respond to this topic.

You need to get better conversed with the facts. You cannot push the image that gay people are evil, or nutcases, or just plain ill as your source does. Most gay and bi people have not attempted suicide. That's a fact. And the suicide rate has been on a decline with advancement of civil rights. That's another fact that you cannot dispute. So really your notion is false. I'm homosexual, and I will use my own credibility to shooting down your argument.

Any notion that all gay people are mentally ill, or associated with higher risk of mental illness is false and a bloody misnomer. It is a misnomer because suicide only goes up with society pressures. It is the fault of pissed off heterosexuals as yourself who cannot accept change.

Re-evaluate your entire argument, or get a new one.

-not exactly sure what your point is - maybe that you need a coffee? :)

LOL. The site is well documentd and factual - but if you need more then here;

Oh, one thing.. I made a typo.. your arguments are not coherent.

And the site needs to be checked for bullshit. I would not believe everything on the internet. You have to be very careful.

www.snopes.com - Look at this website. This is off topic yes, but you need to re-evaluate everything you read on the internet. People may claim they got "credentials".. I could easily go on the internet claiming I got a PhD.. but it doesn't mean I really do.