NationStates Jolt Archive

There was a car thread a while ago (that I was going to link, but I couldn't find it and the poster I'm about to refer to posts too damn much for me to go through looking for his post) where Eutrusca (I'll name him by name because we should be nice to each other every now and then just to shake things up) posted a picture of a Mustang similar to the one he bought when he got back from service in Vietnam.

Now, I don't really like muscle cars all that much and the only Mustang I can get into is the Forest Green '68 (cookie to anyone who knows why), but even if it's not to my tastes, I have to give it up-that's a big bad car and would be a blast to drive.

But here's what got me thinkin' (and this is a little bit of an off shoot of Side Glances column in Road & Track a few years back)-Trusci bought that ride for a modest sum back in the day and that's a car that most would pay more than a modest sum to have now.

Do that make cars like that? I'm not talkin' Enzos and Carrera GTs, I'm talking mass produced cars that will still strum the heart thirty odd years down the road. What will our children or grandchildren be jealous that we drove 'back in the day?'

Will your kids go, "No way-you had a '98 Miata?" or "You sold your '01 PT Cruiser? You're crazy!!!"

I can't think of many modern era cars that are collecting up. There are some 'in the know' cars-the '89 Porsche 944 Turbos are valuble to Porsche fans who know that the model peaked then but no one else knows that, in fact it's part of the charm (that I just torpedoed).

80s Saab 900 Turbos and BMW 320is are popular amongst 20somethings, but mostly because they can be gotten so cheaply and still be sporting a BMW or Saab.

Certainly the retro trend, for whatever else it is, has at least briefly rescued us from boring three-box designs. But will people collect with frevor old new Beetles? Minis?

Is it going to be the new Pontiac Solstice, or the Saturn SKY?

What are the 'modest sum' cars of today that our children and grandchildren will be wishing was thier inheretence?

Or will it all be moot because the car is at the end of it's time amongst us? (cause someone is going to bring that up...)

Any Caterham.

Any Subaru Impreza STI

Any Mitsibushi Lancer Evo (preferably the later evos)

Honda Civics and other rice burners. Street racing has been around for a while, and will continue to stick around, but Fast and the Furious made the Civic REALLY popular...but that fad will die out, and I won't be surprised if Honda stops manufacturing Civics (and replaces them with some car that's more fuel effecient).

What's your upward price limit?

I think the M3 & Boxter will become modern classics, but they're relatively expensive.

Hot hatches like the Renault Clio Williams & Clio Sport, Peugeot 205 GTi & 306 GTi6.

Impreza WRX & Lancer EVOs.

The local Holden Commodore SS/HSVs & Ford Falcon XR6/XR8/GTP.

I'm a big fan of the last generation RX7, but again they're a bit pricey.

Edit: The original Honda CRX from the late 80s/early 90s (the bob-tailed one). Perhaps the Integra Type R & S.

I don't care what anyone else says, my 1992 Nissan Stanza XE kicked ass. That car was a tank. 140 something pounds of torque on that beast. I beat out many stupid ricer Hondas and Hyundais in it. Compare it to other cars in its class. It took a beating. Annually didn't describe the frequency of oil changes. Nothing else for preventative maintenence was done to it. How many other cars do you know of that had nasty accident-induced damage onto the car, but still drove more than 4 years without a single repair? I redlined the shit out of it. Unfortunately, it takes its toll; the car's transmission unexpectedly died on it. It never complained about the neglect we gave it. It's now sitting on my lot. I long for that car, but I don't have the cash to overhaul it. Also, 1992 was the last year they made that fantastic, finely-tuned precision instrument that could comfortably seat 5. It was later replaced with the Sentra, which to me is smaller and crappier.

Any Caterham.

Any Subaru Impreza STI

Any Mitsibushi Lancer Evo (preferably the later evos)
The Caterham I have to disqualify for a couple reasons-

First, while it has evolved and is certainly now its own car in its own right, at it's core it's still just a copy of the Super 7 (a legitimate copy not withstanding).

Second, while it is only $20K it is not a 'day car.' So that means $20 grand for an extra car. There might be some die hards making that car thier mule (and I salute them), but it is still a rich boy toy by that measurement.

The Lancer and the Impreza (though for the scooby I would have to insist that it would be the WRX versions) I use the precurser to the Eclipse...name is escaping me right now-car was all angles was badged as a Dodge and a Mitsubishi...

Anyway. That car is kind of a light classic. It's powerful as all hell and if you know that it excites you, but the casual observer I think would regard it as a beater.

The Impreza especially might not suffer from that because it is so well known now that I think a fair number of 'commuters' know it as a rocket. I think in that case it just may hold, though I don't think with the same mark as the 'merican Muscle or low cost Euros (like the MGB, say...)

I also wonder if that garish design (box flares? Really?) will stand the test of time.

Certainly the retro trend, for whatever else it is, has at least briefly rescued us from boring three-box designs. But will people collect with frevor old new Beetles? Minis?

Is it going to be the new Pontiac Solstice, or the Saturn SKY?



Don't know the Solstice or SKY.

I think the neo-retro thing won't be remembered fondly. They're expensive (& pointless in the case of the new beetle) revisits of what were originally cheap & cheerful cars. To my mind, they're not much more than cynical marketing exercises.

98 Honda Prelude (Last of the beautiful, crisp lined sports cars)
96 Lexus SC400
96 Acura Intergra RS
94 (or is it 95?) Acura Legend Coupe (5 speed)
2000 Fiat Barcheta Turbo
2000 Alfa 147 GTA (most ULTIMATE hatchback ever made)
Honda S2000
04 Chrysler 300 (will defintely be a classic hot-rod/cutomizer base 30 years from now)
any Miata
BMW Z4

Theres plenty. especially since the passage of time brings about Nostalgia Goggles and distorts the perceptions of those who can remember the original and those born after it was made.

Maybe it's just me, but the one that grabs me is the Honda Insight, both for form and function. The Prius gets all the hybrid press, and it's a hell of a car and certainly deserving, but the Insight with its bullet shape and the rear wheel covers just grabs me and always has. Plus, it was the first of the hybrids, and that's got to mean something to collectors, right?

What's your upward price limit?

I think the M3 & Boxter will become modern classics, but they're relatively expensive.
This is a good question. I am sitting at a Kinkos and while this posted I was watching a Boxster and an SLK go by and thought, "Are those the 914s/2002s?" If we're using Tursci's 'Stang as a guage we could caculate adjusted desirability vs. initial price using other desirables from that era, but thats math and I don't do that. I think that the mass produced are cool, the under $50,000 maybe-and even then. I'm looking more towards the cars 'everyday people' can own, which by one stretch of the definition the M3 and hte Boxster could qualify. I know the OG M3 is a bit of an item these days, so it would stand to reason that the current ground pounder might stand up.

In a way, though, I feel this is almost unfair. A BMW or a Porsche is almost expected to stand up, they have the badge to help them along. Maybe those cars are cheating. The definition is a hard on to come up with.

Hot hatches like the Renault Clio Williams & Clio Sport, Peugeot 205 GTi & 306 GTi6.
We get none of these in the states. We have to make room on the roads for H2s....sob....

Seriously, if you drive one of those things you are troubled. The H1, whatever. It's not my thing but as a sports car fan I can understand the appeal of a "my car can do that," the H2 and H3 are like the adult equivilent of puting a baseball card in the spokes of your bicycle. Understandable when you're ten, sad when you're an adult. Anyway...

Impreza WRX & Lancer EVOs.
I already talked about these.

The local Holden Commodore SS/HSVs & Ford Falcon XR6/XR8/GTP.
I still am upset that you Aussies get 'cool Ford.' The Falcon in GT4 is a blast to drive. Doesn't really tell me how the real car would be, but since it's the closest I'll likely get...

Isn't the Commodore what we yanks now call a GTO? That really hasn't been lighting any fires over here, as far as I know. I wonder if there is inherent differences in the models that make them more exciting 'down under.'

I'm a big fan of the last generation RX7, but again they're a bit pricey.
You ain't alone. Man, they just got that right, didn't they? I'd include it, maybe $30k would be considered the upper limit of 'everyman sports car.'

Edit: The original Honda CRX from the late 80s/early 90s (the bob-tailed one). Perhaps the Integra Type R & S.
There is a street racing push for the little CR-Xs because apparently the Integra engines fit. I have a hard time picturing someone saying "No way, grandpa-you had an Integra? You where soooo cool..." but I have to admit it's because I hate Integras and doesn't really light on the desirability of the car. So I'll conceed that you may be right.

Maybe it's just me, but the one that grabs me is the Honda Insight, both for form and function. The Prius gets all the hybrid press, and it's a hell of a car and certainly deserving, but the Insight with its bullet shape and the rear wheel covers just grabs me and always has. Plus, it was the first of the hybrids, and that's got to mean something to collectors, right?
I don't know. I certainly like the Insight, but I'm a sucker for wheel skirts.

There is a collector market of the odd-like those who collect Messerschmidt KR-200s and BMW Isettas (like me if I had any damn money) but I think those get sidelong glances from the rest of the populace. I mean, Erkle drove an Isetta...

I'd like to think that there would be a recognizable collector market for efficient cars, the first of the clean(er) cars. I just don't know...

I dunno...Im thinking more of oddball designs being remembered. You know...your grandchildren saying "You drove something that looked like THAT!?!?!"
Like the Infiniti FX, Nissan Murano, Honda Element (which I think is ugly by the way), Nissan Quest, BMW 7,6 Series. Well its not going to be the only thing that will be remembered...but theyre probably going to be noticed in 50 years when you drive them and theres none left.

I don't know. I certainly like the Insight, but I'm a sucker for wheel skirts.

There is a collector market of the odd-like those who collect Messerschmidt KR-200s and BMW Isettas (like me if I had any damn money) but I think those get sidelong glances from the rest of the populace. I mean, Erkle drove an Isetta...

I'd like to think that there would be a recognizable collector market for efficient cars, the first of the clean(er) cars. I just don't know...
It certainly doesn't have the cachet of any of the muscle cars you've mentioned up there, but it does have the quirky factor working for it, and the fact that the Prius became the mainstream car gives it even more cool factor in my eyes.

Don't know the Solstice or SKY.

I think the neo-retro thing won't be remembered fondly. They're expensive (& pointless in the case of the new beetle) revisits of what were originally cheap & cheerful cars. To my mind, they're not much more than cynical marketing exercises.
Probably true, but if you remember the cookie stamp world that existed before them, I see it as a welcome change.

The Solstice (http://www.autogaleria.pl/tapety/img/pontiac/pontiac_solstice_2006_01_b.jpg), to be released soon or last week or something. I like it, I have to say. And they want to put it out for @$20K. Good move, I think. Should I actually get a damn job now that I have my degree and end up in the market for a new car that will at the very least get a serious look.

The Saturn SKY (http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2007/2007-Saturn-Sky-Roadster-SA-Sunset-1920x1440.jpg) as far as I can tell (and am willing to be corrected) is a rebadged Opel Speedster. I don't know how it will effect Saturn's marshmellow "pod people" image. (Seriously, the owners of Saturns sometimes strike me as pod people....)

This is a good question. I am sitting at a Kinkos and while this posted I was watching a Boxster and an SLK go by and thought, "Are those the 914s/2002s?" If we're using Tursci's 'Stang as a guage we could caculate adjusted desirability vs. initial price using other desirables from that era, but thats math and I don't do that. I think that the mass produced are cool, the under $50,000 maybe-and even then. I'm looking more towards the cars 'everyday people' can own, which by one stretch of the definition the M3 and hte Boxster could qualify. I know the OG M3 is a bit of an item these days, so it would stand to reason that the current ground pounder might stand up.

In a way, though, I feel this is almost unfair. A BMW or a Porsche is almost expected to stand up, they have the badge to help them along. Maybe those cars are cheating. The definition is a hard on to come up with.


We get none of these in the states. We have to make room on the roads for H2s....sob....

Seriously, if you drive one of those things you are troubled. The H1, whatever. It's not my thing but as a sports car fan I can understand the appeal of a "my car can do that," the H2 and H3 are like the adult equivilent of puting a baseball card in the spokes of your bicycle. Understandable when you're ten, sad when you're an adult. Anyway...


I already talked about these.


I still am upset that you Aussies get 'cool Ford.' The Falcon in GT4 is a blast to drive. Doesn't really tell me how the real car would be, but since it's the closest I'll likely get...

Isn't the Commodore what we yanks now call a GTO? That really hasn't been lighting any fires over here, as far as I know. I wonder if there is inherent differences in the models that make them more exciting 'down under.'


You ain't alone. Man, they just got that right, didn't they? I'd include it, maybe $30k would be considered the upper limit of 'everyman sports car.'


There is a street racing push for the little CR-Xs because apparently the Integra engines fit. I have a hard time picturing someone saying "No way, grandpa-you had an Integra? You where soooo cool..." but I have to admit it's because I hate Integras and doesn't really light on the desirability of the car. So I'll conceed that you may be right.

I just have no time for 4WDs, or SUVs as you know them. Complete waste of space. If you drive them off road, great. Why the hell backwards engineer them to be city cars? They're inherently flawed & compromised.

The Falcon XR6 Turbo is a big, meaty torque monster. My girlfriend was lucky enough to have one from work for a couple of weeks. What a hoonmobile!

The Commodore coupe (called the Monaro here) is what you get as the GTO. I know some mods have been made (eg moving the petrol tank to meet your collision laws), but I don't whether they've altered the dynamics of the car much. I haven't driven one of them.

Hot hatches are sweet. Nimble, squirty & real Q cars. People in their big sedans & four wheel drives just don't expect you to leave them behind. :p

I'll tell you another one that gets me--the new Mini. I loved the old one too, but I think the update was a solid one, better than the impressive one that VW did with the Beetle. I've driven both, and the Mini is a burner.

It certainly doesn't have the cachet of any of the muscle cars you've mentioned up there, but it does have the quirky factor working for it, and the fact that the Prius became the mainstream car gives it even more cool factor in my eyes.
I'd have to agree in that aspect (and with the post above you).

There was an ad when the PT Cruiser first came out that had a mother carrying a child that was tirelessly identifying everything and at the end the kid stops and with suprise goes, "What is that?!?!" And it is, of course, a PT Cruiser. Some cars are going to have that effect (really, part of what draws me to the aforementioned Isetta and KR-200) of being a 'what the hell was that thing?'

I think to the Citreon SM that had a wealth of cool functions on it that make me want it (and the Maserati engine) like the hydrolics that will dog-leg a flat tire. Gadget cars are certainly cool, just I think to a select few.

I'll tell you another one that gets me--the new Mini. I loved the old one too, but I think the update was a solid one, better than the impressive one that VW did with the Beetle. I've driven both, and the Mini is a burner.
I like that new Mini. I think saying that will burn up my cool car guy card or something, but I like it. It's on the short list of 'new cars that I might one day be able to afford.'

I like that new Mini. I think saying that will burn up my cool car guy card or something, but I like it. It's on the short list of 'new cars that I might one day be able to afford.'
All you have to do is corner that puppy and feel your nuts crawl into your throat and you'll be in love forever.

If I had the dollars (they're around 60K AUD) I'd look very closely at the RX8.

I'm also in love with the Peugeot 407 HDi Touring.

http://www.peugeot.com.au/peugeot/au/me.get?site.home&FFFF1325

All you have to do is corner that puppy and feel your nuts crawl into your throat and you'll be in love forever.
I talked a friend of mine when he got his 'adult job' into buying a GTi VR6 and that thing is a kick in the damn ass. I love it. I saw something badged R32 here in the states but I don't know if that car is really sold here or not. (badges are cheap, after all...)

The Mini has to measure up against that VR6 in my esteem...

I like that new Mini. I think saying that will burn up my cool car guy card or something, but I like it. It's on the short list of 'new cars that I might one day be able to afford.'

I like the Mini because it's been really well executed by BMW. They've actually managed to make a excellent car in it's own right, not just superficial copy of a previous car. I think the PT Cruiser is pretty ordinary though.

I like the Mini because it's been really well executed by BMW. They've actually managed to make a excellent car in it's own right, not just superficial copy of a previous car. I think the PT Cruiser is pretty ordinary though.
Yeah, I bounce around on the PT. When it first came out I thought it looked pretty good, but it hasn't really held up.

I have to bail early on my own thread, because I'm at Kinkos and have to get up before they make me....but I'll come back to it tommorrow becuase thats how lame I am these days (tommorrows my birthday, got no plans...)

Yeah, I bounce around on the PT. When it first came out I thought it looked pretty good, but it hasn't really held up.
Neither has the other Chrysler experiment, the Prowler. It just hasn't aged well. It's like that 40-something at the disco, trying to look like he still in his twenties.

I have to bail early on my own thread, because I'm at Kinkos and have to get up before they make me....but I'll come back to it tommorrow becuase thats how lame I am these days (tommorrows my birthday, got no plans...)

Happy birthday for tomorrow. Have a beer with a few mates & enjoy yourself. :)

There's no such thing as a classic car after 1987. Nope. All thanks to ricers. They ruined everything from '88 up.

There's no such thing as a classic car after 1987. Nope. All thanks to ricers. They ruined everything from '88 up.

Actually, I would suggest that the "ricers" group is the most likely place to find a modern version of a "classic". Detroit simply isn't putting out potential "classics" like it used to, and Japanese auto groups are leading the way in terms of high-value, high-performance, reasonable-cost automobiles.

The Caterham I have to disqualify for a couple reasons-

First, while it has evolved and is certainly now its own car in its own right, at it's core it's still just a copy of the Super 7 (a legitimate copy not withstanding).
Thats what it started as, but recently they launched a "new" version with a new chassis and aerodynamics....the only thing it has in common now is a similar profile.

Neither has the other Chrysler experiment, the Prowler. It just hasn't aged well. It's like that 40-something at the disco, trying to look like he still in his twenties.
Especially when you consider the similar Panoz AIV (http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1990-1999/1998-Panoz-AIV-black-fa-lr.jpg) with it's Roush V8 that makes the Prowler with its puny V6 makes the Prowler look like it's playing 'dress up.'

The Panoz, however is a low number production and high cost, so it disqualifies. I love those cars mostly because of what the owner of them has done for sports car racing. (now if he can only manage to win something...)

Thats what it started as, but recently they launched a "new" version with a new chassis and aerodynamics....the only thing it has in common now is a similar profile.
I know, but and it could be argued that it is a constant evolution in the same respect as the 911 which still retains cues all the way back to the 356, but the 'kit car' heritage (acknowledging that the Super 7 itself started life as a kit) and the 'recreation car' aspect I still think rule it out. The litness would be comparing Trusci's situation-a service person comes back from the Gulf War and buys a car as his daily machine, would selling it upset his grandchildren/children?

I do have respect for the Caterham, mind you. And I'm silly enough to make that my daily driver should the window present itself, but I'm a weirdo in that respect.

I just notice in your sig you are a female-female car fans rock, so by extension, so do you. Yay you!

Actually, I would suggest that the "ricers" group is the most likely place to find a modern version of a "classic". Detroit simply isn't putting out potential "classics" like it used to, and Japanese auto groups are leading the way in terms of high-value, high-performance, reasonable-cost automobiles.
I would have to agree. In reality, the rice racers are no different than any other generation of american street rodder-they have taken the workhorses of their parents (the Model T, the Nova, the Civic) and decided that what they really wanted to be was fast. I respect the hell out of them, even if I don't like most of the cars they drive.