NationStates Jolt Archive

The Russian government has approved a plan to make people more patriotic.

The $17m programme will urge youths to mark military victories, and will fund the re-introduction of military-style games in schools.

There will also be healthy lessons in the curious subject of "correct reproductive behaviour" - Kremlin-speak for patriotic sex education.

Boosting patriotism is one of President Vladimir Putin's priorities but it is unclear if the move will achieve that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4698027.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41321000/jpg/_41321405_nashi_ap203body.jpg

What do you think?

The Russian government has approved a plan to make people more patriotic.

The $17m programme will urge youths to mark military victories, and will fund the re-introduction of military-style games in schools.

There will also be healthy lessons in the curious subject of "correct reproductive behaviour" - Kremlin-speak for patriotic sex education.

Boosting patriotism is one of President Vladimir Putin's priorities but it is unclear if the move will achieve that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4698027.stm

What do you think?

Poll up in a moment.

Err...we're doing the same exact thing.

Not a surprise. But you'd be amazed at what works when it comes to propaganda and patriotism and a lack of proper information.

And it apparently worked for the Hitler Youth.

This is horrible. The Russians need to come to grips with their history, not glorify it.

Err...we're doing the same exact thing.
Who is we, and what's the organization? :confused:

A typical Putin-esque decision, very consistent with his policy. This is basically a reversal to the old Soviet school practices.

What exactly is "patriotic sex education?"

I mean, how do you make it patriotic? Condoms in the national colours? Or maybe vodka flavoured ones?

Of course, being patriotic, it probably frowns upon the use of condoms
in any case. Part of the "make more Russians" school of thought, maybe?

This is a good idea. Patriotism could probably reduce crime and create a population that is more driven and better for Russia as a whole. I would advocate the same thing for any nation due to the advantages that patriotism would probably bring.

What exactly is "patriotic sex education?"

I mean, how do you make it patriotic? Condoms in the national colours? Or maybe vodka flavoured ones?

Of course, being patriotic, it probably frowns upon the use of condoms
in any case. Part of the "make more Russians" school of thought, maybe?
Maybe they're sposed to be taught that Russians invented sex in the first place, or something like that. :p

putin is the best leader,Russia has ever had exept maybe Peter the great...

Have to take a deeper look at what their teaching though. The news barely tells anything.

putin is the best leader,Russia has ever had exept maybe Peter the great...
Poor Russia. :rolleyes:

putin is the best leader,Russia has ever had exept maybe Peter the great...I tend to disagree. Putin is an arrogant bastard. He hit someone with his car once and chased after him, remarking later that the guy shouldn't have chosen his car to commit suicide on. We saw how he dealt with Yukos, very admirable there. I don't think a man that considers the fall of the Soviet Union to have been a horrible thing to be qualified for leading Russia.

This is horrible. The Russians need to come to grips with their history, not glorify it.

Russia does have history to be proud of, for all of the horrible events in its past. Every country has had its horrible events, and you're probably at least a little patriotic when it comes to your country. I know I am.

What exactly is "patriotic sex education?"

I have $10 that says it involves hammering into their childrens' heads the fact that contracting and spreading AIDS is not good.

I can't support anything with a picture with a girl that ugly at the front.

Anyway, this sounds suspiciously like a Russian Hitlerjugend. Still, after the Westernisation of Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed, theres no way that people are going to take it seriously.

EDIT: And does this sound ominous to anyone else? "Counter attempts in the media at discrediting patriotic ideas"?

Russia does have history to be proud of, for all of the horrible events in its past. Every country has had its horrible events, and you're probably at least a little patriotic when it comes to your country. I know I am.
It's hard to explain German patriotism to non-Germans. Other than Nazis, Germans tend to only show real patriotism when it comes to sporting events or other international competitions. Other than that, there's hardly any.
Yes the Russians have things they can be proud of, but they fucked a lot of things up in recent history. There have been subtle attempts of ethnic cleansing in the Baltic states, the Ukraine, Belarus, etc...
Putin didn't apologize for the occupation of the Baltic states by Russia because "You can't occupy what you already own".
The Russians seriously need to work on their history and accept what they've done to their neighbors and the world.
Germany is a good example were such a process has actually worked, in spite of several elements of society that resist it.

Our country is dying, and nothing can help us. All these 'youth movements' and 'making people patriotic' are our death throes.

Our country is dying, and nothing can help us. All these 'youth movements' and 'making people patriotic' are our death throes.Would you care to elaborate on that? You probably have the best insight on this and it would be nice to hear your opinion in full.

Putin may be going old school Soviet on us. those children are wearing red stars.
IMO
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/DarkSlavik/lenin.jpg

Graaah! Must...crush...capitalism...

This is a good idea. Patriotism could probably reduce crime and create a population that is more driven and better for Russia as a whole. I would advocate the same thing for any nation due to the advantages that patriotism would probably bring.


Yeah, same here, a dose of patriotism is not bad, in fact it can help in important battles, and I think that in order to fight terrorism, we need to underline the importance of staying united and be proud of our own national achievements.

Terror has no colour, no creed, no race, no religion, wherever it is fight it, like in CT :sniper:

Would you care to elaborate on that? You probably have the best insight on this and it would be nice to hear your opinion in full.
All right.

The population of our country is declining rapidly (and this trend is unlikely to be reversed), the rates of drug use, infertility, STDs, tuberculosis etc. are climbing up, our economy is living off the current high oil prices. Putin has done nothing except stabilizing the political situation of 2000, he turned out to be a giant 'fridge', nothing more...

I think that ethic tension will be our undoing. When the high birth and immigration rates of Eastern peoples will make them comparable in number with the Slavic population, our country will experience a series of ethnic riots, and the fabric of Russian society will burst at the seams.

Sorry, it's hard for me to write about this, and, maybe, I'm too pessimistic. But I'm not the only one.

Yeah, russia does suck.

Anyway is it true that y'all have a beer drinkers party and a party that had an advertisement involving a cow eating butter?

Yeah, russia does suck.

Anyway is it true that y'all have a beer drinkers party and a party that had an advertisement involving a cow eating butter?
'Suck'? I wouldn't use this term of abuse in relation to any country, were it Russia or Equatorial Kuhndu. But that's me.

Beer Drinkers Party? Oh yes! We've got minor parties galore. :) A cow eating butter? Mmm... don't remember, I try not to watch political advertisements.

'Suck'? I wouldn't use this term of abuse in relation to any country, were it Russia or Equatorial Kuhndu. But that's me.

Beer Drinkers Party? Oh yes! We've got minor parties galore. :) A cow eating butter? Mmm... don't remember, I try not to watch political advertisements.
Ok, I should not have used the word suck. I will admit I was most certainly being insensitive(it is part of my nature :) ). Yeah, I did read in some book about Russia having major problems with pollution and crime. I am not sure if Russia is going to die, but it does have some major problems(as do many other countries) but at the very least Russia has some educated individuals(there has not been that major of a brain-drain in Russia, right?) and it has some industry. Hopefully, it can get some success in some way.

I do have a question, what did you think of the Communist dictatorship in comparison to the modern Russia? or do you know enough to compare?

Ok, I should not have used the word suck. I will admit I was most certainly being insensitive(it is part of my nature :) ). Yeah, I did read in some book about Russia having major problems with pollution and crime. I am not sure if Russia is going to die, but it does have some major problems(as do many other countries) but at the very least Russia has some educated individuals(there has not been that major of a brain-drain in Russia, right?) and it has some industry. Hopefully, it can get some success in some way.

I do have a question, what did you think of the Communist dictatorship in comparison to the modern Russia? or do you know enough to compare?
Having a lot of educated individuals is far from being a panacea -- in the beginiing pf the 20th century Germany was the most 'educated' country in the world, and look what happened.

The roots of our problems are in the past, in the Soviet period. The economical disbalance, the decline of population are products of the Soviet times, that's undisputed.

What do I think about it? The Communist Party rule was definitely the worst thing that could have happened with my country. If Kerensky had stayed in power in 1917, the century would have been less bloody.

Today my family lives much better than twenty years ago, capitalism has benefited us, but it's not the same with a lot of people. Modern Russia is a capitalist state, we're definitely more free (don't believe everything you've heard about oppression and stifling free speech, not long ago our president was accused of committing adultery to Russia, in the sense that he was practising necrophilia with the Soviet Union's corpse, on a radio station which belongs to a state-owned enterprise; the accuser is the head of that station, and nobody wants to fire him for that), the elections are rigged, but not blatantly (~+/-15%), and I don't want to go back to the USSR. There is no way back, BTW.

I think this whole russian patroitism thing is ok, as long as it does not turn in to rights abuse. And the millitary style gmes in school, that sounds fun!

This is horrible. The Russians need to come to grips with their history, not glorify it.

:rolleyes:

thats from your wiev, not a russian that had no job during the Yeltsin Era and got to enjoy capitalisam ;)

Err...we're doing the same exact thing.
except we are trying to fight against sex education

Our country is dying, and nothing can help us. All these 'youth movements' and 'making people patriotic' are our death throes.

If y'all are going to die, can you give Kaliningrad to Poland first? :D

Seriously: Can you expand on that? Do you mean that Russia is getting worse since the fall of the USSR (CCCP)?

What do you think?
Putin is a bad ass mofo. He's 2nd rate stalin but still cooler than your average Western national leader who blathers on about tedious crap yet fills your heart neither with absolute terror, nor burning patriotic fervor. At least he tries to be interesting.

Having a lot of educated individuals is far from being a panacea -- in the beginiing pf the 20th century Germany was the most 'educated' country in the world, and look what happened.
We were the first to think of putting deadly gasses in bottles and blowing them at others.... ;)

==========================================

Anyways, this is a whole big lot of bullshit. Patriotism is not something I like, but that's not even the issue.
As Laerod said, this is about glorification. They're not gonna see that the "Great Patriotic War" was a mass slaughter unrivalled in history, they are gonna see statues and hymns. And Putin is not going to stay there forever. What if some Nationalist takes over and has a militaristic, patriotic and possibly racist, youth to do his bidding?
Forget China, if that happens, then that is where it's at.

I don't mind Russia, I had a number of Russian friends back home. But the way they handle their politics and their past quite frankly scares me.

Having a lot of educated individuals is far from being a panacea -- in the beginiing pf the 20th century Germany was the most 'educated' country in the world, and look what happened.

I know that it is no panacea but many other nations have horrible problems as well as a brain drain that kills them. Just be glad that you do not live in Africa(like Sudan or something) because countries there have brain-drain and all sorts of violence plus AIDS madness.

Besides Germany rose to the top again, what screwed Germany was the world wars.

What exactly is "patriotic sex education?"Don't know what it is, but it sure sounds dodgy. ^_^

Anyways, this is a whole big lot of bullshit. Patriotism is not something I like, but that's not even the issue.
As Laerod said, this is about glorification. They're not gonna see that the "Great Patriotic War" was a mass slaughter unrivalled in history, they are gonna see statues and hymns. And Putin is not going to stay there forever. What if some Nationalist takes over and has a militaristic, patriotic and possibly racist, youth to do his bidding?

It is better for them that they create the 3rd world war than that they let things continue to collapse into nothing. Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees(I don't remember the exact Shakespearean quote). No nation wants to glorify how it has failed or the mistakes it has made. The soviet people need faith in their nation and the will to make it a better place, it does not matter what is sacrificed in order to fix things because the former Superpower is a modern 3rd world country. The soviet people deserve better than the shithole that their country is today and they need the inspiration to try and fix it.

Don't know what it is, but it sure sounds dodgy. ^_^
I am guessing it has to do with teaching women "their place" i.e. showing them how to spit out babies so that russia will be strong and powerful again. Russia's population is decreasing at a rapid rate thanks to disease and a low birthrate, and Russia's leaders are more than a little freaked out that their country is dying.

It is better for them that they create the 3rd world war than that they let things continue to collapse into nothing.
Bet you Fifty bucks that it ain't.

The soviet people deserve better than the shithole that their country is today and they need the inspiration to try and fix it.
It's the Russian people, not the Soviet People. Soviet means "Commune" (kind of) and had to do with politics.
But I don't want their inspiration to come from the need to bomb me or others into oblivion. And many Russian will probably still agree with me, especially the veterans of the war.

Bet you Fifty bucks that it ain't.

It's the Russian people, not the Soviet People. Soviet means "Commune" (kind of) and had to do with politics.
But I don't want their inspiration to come from the need to bomb me or others into oblivion. And many Russian will probably still agree with me, especially the veterans of the war.
Soviet, russian, it was just a mix up between the two. It used to be it would be correct to call them soviets.

It may be worse for you and the rest of the world if they created the 3rd world war but to die after starting the 3rd world war would at least be dignity compared to being killed by the russian mob.

No one wants the 3rd world war, I am just saying that it is better for them to run the risk of creating a monster than to continue living in a nation that is so weak and only a shell of what it once was.(maybe not better for us but definitely better for them)

I am guessing it has to do with teaching women "their place" i.e. showing them how to spit out babies so that russia will be strong and powerful again. Russia's population is decreasing at a rapid rate thanks to disease and a low birthrate, and Russia's leaders are more than a little freaked out that their country is dying.Less dodgy then, I suppose.
Now if they just trained women for war they'd probably gain more power, although I doubt whatever glory remains could tolerate that.


No one wants the 3rd world warI wouldn't be too sure of that if I were you.

I wouldn't be too sure of that if I were you.
It was not meant as absolute truth, only to keep my position from being that of wanting the Russians to create the 3rd world war. After all, I do not want to seem like an irrational militarist but I am not going to say that Russia should just accept that the nation will be crappy for all eternity.

And they called the last Tsar 'Bloody Nicholas'.... :(

If y'all are going to die, can you give Kaliningrad to Poland first? :D

Seriously: Can you expand on that? Do you mean that Russia is getting worse since the fall of the USSR (CCCP)?
Kakiningrad to Poland? I'd like to give the royal city of Hohenzollerns to Germany, there's the tomb of Kant etc. :)

Getting worse? In demographical sense, yes. The trends of declining birth rates and galloping mortality rates appeared back then, and since 1991 our mortality rate has exceeded birth rate in each year.

I fail to see how Russia can overcome our current crisis -- barring some miraculous demographic reversal, that is.

...
And Putin is not going to stay there forever. What if some Nationalist takes over and has a militaristic, patriotic and possibly racist, youth to do his bidding?
Forget China, if that happens, then that is where it's at.

...
Putin will go in 2008. I think he'll try to make his Chief of Staff President, and his attempt is going to be successful.

And the purpose of that youth movement IMHO is more practical -- the Russian government witnessed several 'colour revolutions' and, having scrutinized the mechanism for these overthrowals, decided to create a mass youth movement ahead of the opposition.

It is better for them that they create the 3rd world war than that they let things continue to collapse into nothing. Its better to die on your feet than live on your knees(I don't remember the exact Shakespearean quote).
Are you ready to be immolated in a nuclear holocaust?

No nation wants to glorify how it has failed or the mistakes it has made. The soviet people need faith in their nation and the will to make it a better place, it does not matter what is sacrificed in order to fix things because the former Superpower is a modern 3rd world country. The soviet people deserve better than the shithole that their country is today and they need the inspiration to try and fix it.
Do you want to say that we need another Stalin? We tried it once, and it didn't come out well. 'It doesn't matter what is sacrificed...' do you mean 'It doesn't matter who is sacrificed'?

-snip-
I'll have to trust you on that, you know better than I do.
But a Youth that has its political opinions and directions pre-selected for them just sounds a lot like Gleichschaltung to me.
I don't know how normal people in Russia view the war, but seeing how many apparently still want Comrade Stalin back...any Russian Nationalist movements (especially state-sponsored ones) should be watched carefully.

And they called the last Tsar 'Bloody Nicholas'.... :(
Well, Emperor Nicholas II was called so not without a good reason..

I'll have to trust you on that, you know better than I do.
But a Youth that has its political opinions and directions pre-selected for them just sounds a lot like Gleichschaltung to me.
I don't know how normal people in Russia view the war, but seeing how many apparently still want Comrade Stalin back...any Russian Nationalist movements (especially state-sponsored ones) should be watched carefully.
Gleichschaltung? I don't know German... is it something along the lines of 'standartization'? :confused:

The War? A source of natonal pride and a source of national pain.

Gleichschaltung? I don't know German... is it something along the lines of 'standartization'? :confused:
Yeah, kind of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleichschaltung

Yeah, kind of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleichschaltung
I see. Still I think that our Nashi is meant to serve as an obstacle in the possible Russian colour revolution's way. As for me, I'm too old to be recruited in some kind of youth movement, and I don't intend to have children, so it won't affect me in a direct manner.

I see. Still I think that our Nashi is meant to serve as an obstacle in the possible Russian colour revolution's way. As for me, I'm too old to be recruited in some kind of youth movement, and I don't intend to have children, so it won't affect me in a direct manner.
As long as they also manage to protect themselves from a Revolution wearing the Russian Flag, we'll be fine.
Personally, I think Russia is just too authoritarian right now. And historically, authoriatrian leaders always needed some enemy they could blame for stuff.
I don't know who would be that enemy in modern Russia (the US might just be too big and strong right now, and the Baltic nations aren't much of a challenge) other than Chechnya.
I just hope it's not going to be Germany.

As long as they also manage to protect themselves from a Revolution wearing the Russian Flag, we'll be fine.
Personally, I think Russia is just too authoritarian right now. And historically, authoriatrian leaders always needed some enemy they could blame for stuff.
I don't know who would be that enemy in modern Russia (the US might just be too big and strong right now, and the Baltic nations aren't much of a challenge) other than Chechnya.
I just hope it's not going to be Germany.
Yes, we've an authoritarian goverment here, but does every authoriarian government need a certain foreign country as an enemy? Ataturk's Turkey had none, present-day Burma (or should I call it Myanmar?) AFAIK has none.

By the way, I really don't like those Nazi parades in Latvia; building monuments to SS-men, too.

So, when do they begin advertising for the "New and Improved, freindly, Soviet Union"?

Yes, we've an authoritarian goverment here, but does every authoriarian government need a certain foreign country as an enemy? Ataturk's Turkey had none, present-day Burma (or should I call it Myanmar?) AFAIK has none.
Atatürk had the traditional enemy, the Kurds, and the Greeks earlier on.
Present-day Burma has certain inland tribes who are now fighting a deperate Guerilla war (apparently Chemical Weapons are being used there).

Sometimes it's difficult to tell, but in the majority of cases, there was a clear enemy of the people. Why else would everyone rally under one person and actually stay there?

Atatürk had the traditional enemy, the Kurds, and the Greeks earlier on.
Present-day Burma has certain inland tribes who are now fighting a deperate Guerilla war (apparently Chemical Weapons are being used there).

Sometimes it's difficult to tell, but in the majority of cases, there was a clear enemy of the people. Why else would everyone rally under one person and actually stay there?
I've had foreign county as an enemy in mind, and Ataturk's army defeated Greece before his ascendance to political power, IIRC... Ah, I certainly have to read up on that. Burma has no foreign enemy for sure, and it's easier to name an Asian country that has on its hands guerilla warfare than a country that hasn't. Neighbouring democratic India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Thailand do have.

Yes, an enemy is a great boon for an autocratic regime, I can't deny this.

Well, myself I think it's too early to tell with this particular idea. Pros: Gives youth who might otherwise be on the streets beating the crap out of elderly women something to do and be part of, gives them some discipline and teaches them obedience, teamwork and so forth (which, if British youth are anything to go by, they need in abundance); Cons: Heavy potential for control of the youth being used to build a new Cult of the Personality and a more authoritarian regime. Then again, youth will follow almost anything - if they weren't following a load of state-sponsored malarkey, they'd be following the next twittering liberal to come yomping over the horizon promising the land of milk and honey.

I've had foreign county as an enemy in mind, and Ataturk's army defeated Greece before his ascendance to political power, IIRC...
I think that's true.

Burma has no foreign enemy for sure, and it's easier to name an Asian country that has on its hands guerilla warfare than a country that hasn't. Neighbouring democratic India, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Thailand do have.
India?

Yes, an enemy is a great boon for an autocratic regime, I can't deny this.
And if you combine that with our somewhat troubled common history, you'll understand that a nationalist Russia would be a problem for the both of us.

BTW Is it true that there are a lot of Russian Neo-Nazi Skinheads? How does their reasoning go? Aren't they Slavs themselves?

Hmm. Well, if they go Soviet again, maybe we can pacify the planet and then go back to our MAD fearing state. World was so much simpler then.

...
India?
There is a small number of some diehard Communists in Indian jungles... The Naxalites, or something like that.

And if you combine that with our somewhat troubled common history, you'll understand that a nationalist Russia would be a problem for the both of us.

BTW Is it true that there are a lot of Russian Neo-Nazi Skinheads? How does their reasoning go? Aren't they Slavs themselves?
Quite a lot -- last Sunday three skinheads politely asked me to take a photograph of them, with a view of the centre of Moscow serving as a background. :) They were from some provincial town, I think.

Their reasoning? They are the proud members of the White race, the immigrants from Caucasus and Central Asia are 'black-arsed' scumbags, the Jews, having arranged the downfall of the great Russia, control everything and sell our riches to the Western imperialists... something like that.

Kakiningrad to Poland? I'd like to give the royal city of Hohenzollerns to Germany, there's the tomb of Kant etc. :)

Getting worse? In demographical sense, yes. The trends of declining birth rates and galloping mortality rates appeared back then, and since 1991 our mortality rate has exceeded birth rate in each year.

I fail to see how Russia can overcome our current crisis -- barring some miraculous demographic reversal, that is.

Great. Keep the place geograpically isolated from it's government... :(
Seriously: The area does have a Polish population, and we're all brother-Slavs, right comrade? :D

Probably true. IMHO, I think Russia needs to start actually using it's biggest asset -- land. Jump start the economy by setting up refugee villages for a price. Crazy? Maybe. But desperate times...

Hmm. Well, if they go Soviet again, maybe we can pacify the planet and then go back to our MAD fearing state. World was so much simpler then.

Simpler, yes. Safer, well, there weren't any terrorist attacks in the US or CCCP, but the threat of nuclear exchange wasn't plesant, either. Still, it is a nice, old fashioned tension that is missing from the world today.

Hmm...Sounds bad to me. Putin should try sorting out his huge, corrupt government. People would be more patriotic then.

Corruption is $316 billion!

BTW Is it true that there are a lot of Russian Neo-Nazi Skinheads?
Lots. Hordes of them, really. The authorities cracked down on them a little after they went out of control and orchestrated some large scale pogroms at markets, but they're still roaming freely for the most part, and with some backing from the Duma (parliament) members. Their latest stunt was attempting to pass a law that would outlaw all Jewish organizations in Russia :rolleyes:


How does their reasoning go?
Reasoning? What reasoning? :rolleyes:


Aren't they Slavs themselves?
Oh but didn't you get the latest memo? The Slavs have been promoted, they're Aryan now ;)

Military style games sound like alot of fun to me

Hmm...Sounds bad to me. Putin should try sorting out his huge, corrupt government. People would be more patriotic then.

Corruption is $316 billion!
Corruption is one of the more ancient and honored Russian traditions. At some point in their history, empress Catherine the Second (I think) actually cancelled all salaries to the tax collectors and assorted government clerks, explaining that bribes were their main income source either way and therefore there is no need to pay them extra.

Great. Keep the place geograpically isolated from it's government... :(
Seriously: The area does have a Polish population, and we're all brother-Slavs, right comrade? :D

Probably true. IMHO, I think Russia needs to start actually using it's biggest asset -- land. Jump start the economy by setting up refugee villages for a price. Crazy? Maybe. But desperate times...
Hey, it's called an exclave! :)

An interesting idea... but the level of erm... ethnic tolerance in our provinces is quite low, I think. And the Chinese will take the Far East anyway.

Simpler, yes. Safer, well, there weren't any terrorist attacks in the US or CCCP, but the threat of nuclear exchange wasn't plesant, either. Still, it is a nice, old fashioned tension that is missing from the world today.
Actually, there were several terrorist attacks in the USSR -- in 1977 the Armenian separatists bombed the Moscow Underground and a large store.

While we're speaking about Kaliningrad, has anyone ever been?
Is it as nice as people say it is?
A quarter of my ancestry comes from Allenstein (no idea what that's called now...) but fled to Bavaria in the war.
The rest is Berlin, Hamburg and the Sudetenland in the Czech Republic. (Apparently they owned a chocolate factory there...damn war)

Putin is the best...

Poor Russia. :rolleyes:Poore you! what an idiot!

Putin is the best...
Serbijanac - does that have something to do with Serbia?
If it does, is Putin popular there? Why?

This is horrible. The Russians need to come to grips with their history, not glorify it.

you''re right, but so should the americans, the danish, etc etc.
i mean, almost all countries glorify their history, this isnt something to get excited about any more than the americans claiming that the founding fathers were heroes!

[QUOTE=Laerod]I tend to disagree. Putin is an arrogant bastard. He hit someone with his car once and chased after him, remarking later that the guy shouldn't have chosen his car to commit suicide on. We saw how he dealt with Yukos, very admirable there. I don't think a man that considers the fall of the Soviet Union to have been a horrible thing to be qualified for leading Russia------U see him as arogant but i see him as a man who cares too much for his nation to let it be westernased to much and lose its own identity and soveregnty..Whos hit whom with a car?? plz dont fall for that stupid made-up stories. mad go read a little red ridding-hood...Yokos was a Illegal company 99% of its wealth has been mad illegaly!! Tell me in what country can u legaly get multi-billions in 5 years????!!!!The fall of the SOVIET UNION WAS A GREATEST DISSASTER FOR RUSSIA but i gues for U.S. it bas a bleasing...He is more qualified to be a True Leader than 95% of the rest of leaders of the world

Serbijanac - does that have something to do with Serbia?
If it does, is Putin popular there? Why?SERBIJANAC IS SERB WHO LIVES IN FOREIGN COUNTRY...American-Americanac,RUS-RUSIJANAC ,and putin is very popular after his visit here ,he said some brave things...

SERBIJANAC IS SERB WHO LIVES IN FOREIGN COUNTRY...American-Americanac,RUS-RUSIJANAC ,and putin is very popular after his visit here ,he said some brave things...
Thanks.
What brave things?
Isn't the time for Panslavism over? It got all of us into a lot of trouble last time...
Or in other words: Don't you think Serbia would do better if it looked towards the EU than Russia?

Thanks.
What brave things?
Isn't the time for Panslavism over? It got all of us into a lot of trouble last time...
Or in other words: Don't you think Serbia would do better if it looked towards the EU than Russia?When has pansllavism got us into problems plz?!?!..anyways serbia shold have good relations with everyone oufcource but russia is and will be considered #1 ally of the serbs..putin has made without any preconditions a free trade-zone between our two countries so we are alredy in "E.U." with Russia!!..but conditions for joining .E.U and especially nato are ...how to say hmm -mission impossible ,hundreds and hundreds wtf, what they think that we are stupid?! screw e.u. it will fall apart in 50 years max...this conditions are nothing that other candidates had to fulfill... man that will only make my country weaker and putin has made our economy much better without any request man its a gift nope its a god-send..i wish other e.u. candidates could join E.U. without conditions and not suffer for so long...

When has pansllavism got us into problems plz?!?!..
The June 28, 1914 assassination of Austrian Crown Prince Franz Ferdinand in the Bosnian capital Sarajevo, served as a pretext for the Austrian attack on Serbia that marked the beginning of World War I, despite Serbia's acceptance (on July 25) of nearly all of Austria-Hungary's demands. The Serbian Army bravely defended its country and won several major victories, but it was finally overpowered by the joint forces of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria, and had to withdraw from the national territory marching across the Albanian mountain ranges to the Adriatic Sea. Having recuperated on Corfu the Serbian Army returned to combat on the Thessaloniki front together with other Entente forces comprising France, the United Kingdom, Russia, Italy and the United States. In World War I, Serbia had 1,264,000 casualties — 28% of its 4½m population, which also represented 58% of its male population — a loss from which it never fully recovered. This enormous sacrifice was the contribution Serbia gave to the Allied victory and the remodeling of Europe and of the World after World War I.
It was Panslavism that got the Prince assassinated, and it was Panslavism that got the Russians (and thus the Germans) involved, yes?

Putin has made without any preconditions a free trade-zone between our two countries so we are alredy in "E.U." with Russia!!..
Good on him. But do you think that is really a gesture of friendliness? Russia is losing its grip on Eastern Europe, and Putin is doing everything it can to remain a power in the region.

this conditions are nothing that other candidates had to fulfill...
That is a good point. But we can't help it. The EU took a lot of new members in and that stretched it to the max. You must understand that politically and economically we are at a limit right now and just can't afford getting more members in.
It's nothing against Serbia in particular.

Yeah, russia does suck.

On behalf of my Russian-born girlfriend, I'm offended.

The June 28, 1914 assassination of Austrian Crown Prince Franz Ferdinand in the Bosnian capital Sarajevo, served as a pretext for the Austrian attack on Serbia that marked the beginning of World War I, despite Serbia's acceptance (on July 25) of nearly all of Austria-Hungary's demands. The Serbian Army bravely defended its country and won several major victories, but it was finally overpowered by the joint forces of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria, and had to withdraw from the national territory marching across the Albanian mountain ranges to the Adriatic Sea. Having recuperated on Corfu the Serbian Army returned to combat on the Thessaloniki front together with other Entente forces comprising France, the United Kingdom, Russia, Italy and the United States. In World War I, Serbia had 1,264,000 casualties — 28% of its 4½m population, which also represented 58% of its male population — a loss from which it never fully recovered. This enormous sacrifice was the contribution Serbia gave to the Allied victory and the remodeling of Europe and of the World after World War I.
It was Panslavism that got the Prince assassinated, and it was Panslavism that got the Russians (and thus the Germans) involved, yes?


Good on him. But do you think that is really a gesture of friendliness? Russia is losing its grip on Eastern Europe, and Putin is doing everything it can to remain a power in the region.


That is a good point. But we can't help it. The EU took a lot of new members in and that stretched it to the max. You must understand that politically and economically we are at a limit right now and just can't afford getting more members in.
It's nothing against Serbia in particular.U STARTED FROM THE KILLING OF FRANZ FERDINAD BUT U FORGOT TO SAY AUSTRA-HUNGARY NEVER HELD BOSNIA UNTILL ONE-SIDED [WITHOUT ANY TALKS] AUSTRIAN OCCUPATION IN 1908!!!
YES WE BEAT THE SUPERIOR AUSTRIAN ARMIES AND MAKE THAM RUN LIKE HELL...IT WAS MOSTLY A COLONIAL WAR OBJECTIVES OF GERMANY WERE NEW COLONIES AND AUSTRIA[who already had upressed a large slavic population who needed to be freed from austrian terror] WANTED BOSNIA AND SERBIA AND BULGARIA AND A WHOLE BALKANS FOR ITSELF ...WE SHOWED THEM!PANSLAVISAM WAS THERE TO SAVE US FROM EXTERMINATION of the SLAVS!!!PUTIN IS A MAN WITHOUT ANY HIDDEN AGENDA WITH SERBIA WTF U TALKING ABOUT???HIS GESTURE IN THIS HARD TIMES WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.!.! YEAH THATS MY POINT WHY WE JOIN E.U. AFTER FULLFILING THIS CONDITIONS THAT WILL ONLY DAMAGE OUR ECONOMY WHEN IT WILL FALL APART OBVIOUSLY!!! E.U. IS STARTING TO INFLATE LIKE A FROG AND SOONER OR LATTER IT WILL EXPLODE.DONT GET ME WRONG SERBIA WANTS TO HAVE GOOD RELATIONS WITH EVERY COUNTRY.BUT RUSSIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL BE ALLY #1..

-snip-
Why do you write everything in Capitals?

Anyways, my point is that overnationalistic Slavs (who I will not judge) started the war together with Austria. It always takes two to tango.

And moreso, now you say you are proud of Serbia in WWI. But it cannot have been worth it. If the war hadn't happened, think of what a great country Serbia could've been today. Instead, their pride cost them 58% of their male population and condemned them to political nothingness.

I sqarely reject your claim about WWI though. Germany didn't want the war any more than Russia or France did. All sides had their own revionist agendas.

Russia always had a hidden agenda with the Balcans. For hundreds of years Russia wanted access to the Mediterranean. The idea of getting the Slavic people on their side was merely a means to an end (I would also point to the Crimean War). Afterall, Russia started attacking Germany in 1914, not sending troops to help out Serbia. The Serbs were completely alone.
It would be naive to think that that would be different today.

This is just a device to use to discriminate anyone who's not ethnic Russian, and to assimilate the non-Russians living within the Russian borders with the ethnic Russians. Or it's Putin's nostalgia. I can't look at it any other way.

Why do you write everything in Capitals?

Anyways, my point is that overnationalistic Slavs (who I will not judge) started the war together with Austria. It always takes two to tango.

And moreso, now you say you are proud of Serbia in WWI. But it cannot have been worth it. If the war hadn't happened, think of what a great country Serbia could've been today. Instead, their pride cost them 58% of their male population and condemned them to political nothingness.

I sqarely reject your claim about WWI though. Germany didn't want the war any more than Russia or France did. All sides had their own revionist agendas.

Russia always had a hidden agenda with the Balcans. For hundreds of years Russia wanted access to the Mediterranean. The idea of getting the Slavic people on their side was merely a means to an end (I would also point to the Crimean War). Afterall, Russia started attacking Germany in 1914, not sending troops to help out Serbia. The Serbs were completely alone.
It would be naive to think that that would be different today.U see a enemy where there is none man i am not a slavic nationalist i love russia but not like croats...u kept raising the subject of slavic nationalism so i had to answer but i am not that kind of person!Austria declared war on serbia first and so started the ww1 austria thought it would crush serbia and after that all the other countries and rule the balkans the russians didnt want them to expand that much to nowdays istambul and rule mediterran sea..Wher did u get idea Serbs are overnationalistic ?? -from western media oufcourse- old school -satanise an entire nation before starting a war CIA has done its homework this time..Serbian society is very tolerant as it has alwas been,so u dont have to be affraid!!SERBIA DIDNT WANT TO GET INTO A WAR WITH AUSTRIA MAN WTF ARE U SAYING??BUT WE HAD TO AND DID DEFEND OURSELVES AND I AM PROUD OF THAT GREAT VICTORIES .RUSSIA HAD ITS INTERESTS BUT THEY did HELP SERBIA too BY INVADING AUSTRIAN EMPIRE A DRAWING THEIR FORCES TO THE EAST..MAN IF U DONT UNDERSTAND HISTORY ASK AND ILL EXPLAIN NO PROBLEM!!before the ww1 ther was a big trade-war between austria and serbia they wanted to destroy our economy but french helped us and our skilled merchants made us win that war when austria lifted embargo in 1913...U are trying to make putin look bad but it wont work pal why u not let us join E.U. tommorow.e.u has agenda but i not see tell me what agenda has putin with free-trade zone with us hmmm..hahaha o boy you post is so stupid it is funny..serbs made a majority of bosnian population 56% in 1914 so they wanted to be with their brothers in the east instead they got occupied by austria who had 0,1% population in bosnia!!!and when they came they did everything to get serbs to leave their homes and leave for serbia..so many radical organisations started poping up to fight the opression,and austrian terror......

This is just a device to use to discriminate anyone who's not ethnic Russian, and to assimilate the non-Russians living within the Russian borders with the ethnic Russians. Or it's Putin's nostalgia. I can't look at it any other way.what the hell is this retard talking about????serbs will never become russian! britain has good relations with usa right! why if we want ahd have good relations with rus then its panslavism?!?!russia is a federation man and ethnic minorities have their republics in it wtf><!?does usa have a black republic inside itself or hispano republic?!haha. then u should shut up if u cant change your point of view...then u are supid.What putin nostalgia we have a free-trade zone since 2000.and our economy is booming... if only E.U. was this generous...

suffice to say we have gone completely offtopic.so i not post here anymore .if u have a question send a private message or a telegram ill answer no problem...anyway Putin is #1!

what the hell is this retard talking about????serbs will never become russian! britain has good relations with usa right! why if we want ahd have good relations with rus then its panslavism?!?!russia is a federation man and ethnic minorities have their republics in it wtf><!?does usa have a black republic inside itself or hispano republic?!haha. then u should shut up if u cant change your point of view...then u are supid.What putin nostalgia we have a free-trade zone since 2000.and our economy is booming... if only E.U. was this generous...

you should really stop being so condescending and aggressive, it really makes you come off as being dumber than i think you are....

U see a enemy where there is none man i am not a slavic nationalist i love russia but not like croats...u kept raising the subject of slavic nationalism so i had to answer but i am not that kind of person!
Good.

Austria declared war on serbia first and so started the ww1 austria thought it would crush serbia and after that all the other countries and rule the balkans the russians didnt want them to expand that much to nowdays istambul and rule mediterran sea..
True. The Austrians were imperialists. But are you saying that Panslavism is not the reason everything got out of hand in such a scale?

Wher did u get idea Serbs are overnationalistic ?? -from western media oufcourse- old school -satanise an entire nation before starting a war CIA has done its homework this time..Serbian society is very tolerant as it has alwas been,so u dont have to be affraid!!
I'm not afraid. Should I be?
Anyways, my idea of Serbia comes from the Western Media (although I don't have access to opinion pieces), and obviously from the war.
Then there is the business with those war criminals still hiding.
I also had a Serbian friend once who was kind of a nationalist.
Most importantly however: I never said all Serbs are overly nationalistic. I suggested some are, and I dare you to prove me wrong. And finally, was the goal of the Black Hand and Princip not to create a Greater Serbia?

SERBIA DIDNT WANT TO GET INTO A WAR WITH AUSTRIA MAN WTF ARE U SAYING??BUT WE HAD TO AND DID DEFEND OURSELVES AND I AM PROUD OF THAT GREAT VICTORIES .RUSSIA HAD ITS INTERESTS BUT THEY did HELP SERBIA too BY INVADING AUSTRIAN EMPIRE A DRAWING THEIR FORCES TO THE EAST..MAN IF U DONT UNDERSTAND HISTORY ASK AND ILL EXPLAIN NO PROBLEM!!
Please, the major initial focus of Grand Duke Nikolajewic was Germany. That was were they attacked primarily, and where they were defeated. One might argue that that saved France, but that's not the topic.
The attack on the KuK armies were happening at the same time, I'll grant you that. I dare you however to prove to me that that was to help Serbia.

U are trying to make putin look bad but it wont work pal why u not let us join E.U. tommorow.e.u has agenda but i not see tell me what agenda has putin with free-trade zone with us hmmm..
Do you refuse to understand how the EU works?
There is one agenda though: We want the war criminals handed over. Until that is done, even if it was possible now, there would be no deal.
Putin's agenda is clear: The Ukraine is turning European, the Balcans hate him. The traditional Russian sphere of influence is braking apart. So he does whatever he can to keep his few remaining allies in line.
Also, do you have any trade figures of Serbia and Russia? I would like to know how much "free trade" we are actually talking about.

hahaha o boy you post is so stupid it is funny..
Keep the Ad Hominems to a minimum, okay? I try my hardest to understand what you are typing, even though it is diffcult, considering that you don't use paragraphs, commas, or any other normal sentence structure.

serbs made a majority of bosnian population 56% in 1914 so they wanted to be with their brothers in the east instead they got occupied by austria who had 0,1% population in bosnia!!!
I wouldn't use the word "brothers" lightly here, considering how things have been in the past 20 years or so.

Russia has the potental to being a very strong US ally if the US wasnt always picking on them all the time. Russians and Americans have more in common culture wise now then the US has with Europe today.

While we're speaking about Kaliningrad, has anyone ever been?
Is it as nice as people say it is?
A quarter of my ancestry comes from Allenstein (no idea what that's called now...) but fled to Bavaria in the war.
A lot of my acquaintances have visited Kaliningrad, and they liked it. The empty shell of the giant unfinished House of Soviets is a terrible blot, though. (That damned Kalinin! why didn't Yeltsin rename the city? Korolevets is a fine old Russian name...)

As for Allenstein, it is a Polish city Olsztyn now.

The Russian government has approved a plan to make people more patriotic.

The $17m programme will urge youths to mark military victories, and will fund the re-introduction of military-style games in schools.

There will also be healthy lessons in the curious subject of "correct reproductive behaviour" - Kremlin-speak for patriotic sex education.

Boosting patriotism is one of President Vladimir Putin's priorities but it is unclear if the move will achieve that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4698027.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41321000/jpg/_41321405_nashi_ap203body.jpg

What do you think?


Brilliant idea...there not communists anymore so i see no harm in it...and anyway.....isnt america doing the same thing?.....maybe not so obviouse but definatly simmilar...i only wish we had such schemes here in Blighty.

Brilliant idea...there not communists anymore so i see no harm in it...and anyway.....isnt america doing the same thing?.....maybe not so obviouse but definatly simmilar...i only wish we had such schemes here in Blighty.

:confused: Huh? Where in the US?!?

That damned Kalinin! why didn't Yeltsin rename the city? Korolevets is a fine old Russian name...
I think that whole renaming business is stupid anyways. Why would you do that? It was founded as Königsberg and it spent the vast majority of its time called Königsberg. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that?
I'm not implying that it should become German though, we have enough trouble with our Easterlings.....

:confused: Huh? Where in the US?!?
I don't know whether you've ever been to a school in Europe. I bet you that most Europeans who saw one of your American History or Civics classes would think they are in a reeducation centre...

I think that whole renaming business is stupid anyways. Why would you do that? It was founded as Königsberg and it spent the vast majority of its time called Königsberg. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that?
I'm not implying that it should become German though, we have enough trouble with our Easterlings.....

Hey! You already have a Königsberg in Bavaria! Share one with Russia... we let them have the other Georgia! :D

I don't know whether you've ever been to a school in Europe. I bet you that most Europeans who saw one of your American History or Civics classes would think they are in a reeducation centre...

Yeah. I feel the same way when I hear Euros talk about how the EU is a peace-keeping organization, that Christianity is not a fundamental cornerstone of European Culture, or that they're any smarter than anybody else. ;)

Exactly my point leonstien
Also the Idea of a school song*
Which when you think about it is just the basic steps of national good-feeling
in other words, teach them at an early age to love their school and have school pride, and then in later life they have it for the whole country.

*School songs are not just confined to america but also exist in peacfull little villages in the 2nd and 3rd world countries..although they probably sing to cheer themselves up..

I am from Moscow and you know what Russia is already have Hitler live. Putin is a stupid and do nothing. There are people that are thinking of war whit all of the East Europe and creat a new Soviet Union.

Russia is like a bomb that can blow up any time. And Russia will have a revolution. Russia is sooo bad that Yukos was destroyed and that company helped the people in Evenkia now they will die. And all the money will go to Moscow and Putin.

And don't think that all that money will go to propoganda they will go to Putin and his friend's.
And Russia has so meny problem that propoganda will not save Putin and his live. Moscow is only one City that live like a world city.
:(

Yeah. I feel the same way when I hear Euros talk about how the EU is a peace-keeping organization, that Christianity is not a fundamental cornerstone of European Culture, or that they're any smarter than anybody else. ;)
Well, if you use really twisted logic, then there hasn't been a war between EU members since its inception...
But Aristotle would be rotating in his grave.
Christianity is a cornerstone of traditional European culture, but probably not of contemporary European culture (which is of course based on the traditional). But even more importantly, it is irrelevant for politics.
Of course I'm smarter than you! ;)
(Although some of the horror stories I hear about US Uni-Students' General Knowledge....)

Yeah. I feel the same way when I hear Euros talk about how the EU is a peace-keeping organization, that Christianity is not a fundamental cornerstone of European Culture, or that they're any smarter than anybody else. ;)

...by Euros..you refer to the people not the currency?..
and if you beleive that we think that ALL europeans are smarter than everyone else then you have neither any idea of the present spanish education system or have never been to whales

This is horrible. The Russians need to come to grips with their history, not glorify it.

I disagree. All other countries glorify their history, so why stand against the Russians?

Sounds like the 1st good idea Putin's come up with to me

I am from Moscow and you know what Russia is already have Hitler live. Putin is a stupid and do nothing. There are people that are thinking of war whit all of the East Europe and creat a new Soviet Union.

Russia is like a bomb that can blow up any time. And Russia will have a revolution. Russia is sooo bad that Yukos was destroyed and that company helped the people in Evenkia now they will die. And all the money will go to Moscow and Putin.

And don't think that all that money will go to propoganda they will go to Putin and his friend's.
And Russia has so meny problem that propoganda will not save Putin and his live. Moscow is only one City that live like a world city.
:(

surely..its not all bad...perhaps if desperate you could move to briatin or..france?

All other countries glorify their history, so why stand against the Russians?
Well, I know at least one that doesn't....

I disagree. All other countries glorify their history, so why stand against the Russians?

Sounds like the 1st good idea Putin's come up with to me

I agree...but then if one does glorify ones own history there is always America striving to make you feel inferior

Hooray more neo-nazis... Why would they fund this? There is a large problem in russia now with neo-nazis, why is Putin trying to encourage this?

Hooray more neo-nazis... Why would they fund this? There is a large problem in russia now with neo-nazis, why is Putin trying to encourage this?
I actually did ask about Neonazis in Russia before, but I still can't quite understand it.
Wouldn't they have to exterminate themselves? Nazi Ideology makes them subhumans. Why would they want to believe they are vermin?

Anyways...who said they were funding it?

I think that whole renaming business is stupid anyways. Why would you do that? It was founded as Königsberg and it spent the vast majority of its time called Königsberg. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that?
I'm not implying that it should become German though, we have enough trouble with our Easterlings.....
I think that Mr Kalinin did nothing that justifies retaining his surname as a part of the name of a certain city. Königsberg is fine for me (and, AFAIK, for the locals), but our population and our politicians won't accept the German city name. Korolevets is an ancient Russian name, not unlike, for example, Leghorn for Livorno in English.

...by Euros..you refer to the people not the currency?..
and if you beleive that we think that ALL europeans are smarter than everyone else then you have neither any idea of the present spanish education system or have never been to whales

Of course. EUians makes even less sense that that USian bullshit, so I use "Euros" as short for Europeans. :)

Just my point. However, I often get jibed for my American accent whilst in Bratislava or Prague (or in Vienna when I'm making do with my lacking German)... I then usually switch to Spanish, then to English to piss them off.
More than anything else, I hate those Euros that belittle Americans as being monolingual clods, then put on airs if you're not as fluent in their language as they are...

I thought is was "Wales"?!?

Of course. EUians makes even less sense that that USian bullshit, so I use "Euros" as short for Europeans. :)

Just my point. However, I often get jibed for my American accent whilst in Bratislava or Prague (or in Vienna when I'm making do with my lacking German)... I then usually switch to Spanish, then to English to piss them off.
More than anything else, I hate those Euros that belittle Americans as being monolingual clods, then put on airs if you're not as fluent in their language as they are...

I thought is was "Wales"?!?

I havent met any Europeans who have put on airs for not being fluent in their language. On the most part they have been more than happy to teach me a few phrases that could come in useful while in their country. As long as you dont expect them straight away to speak english ,and then act like they are stupid when they speak their native language, they will generally be very nice about it. I know this doesnt apply to everyone but the majority are nice enough

Well, if you use really twisted logic, then there hasn't been a war between EU members since its inception...

Right. Nor has there been a war between any two countries that have McDonalds. Yet I would NOT call Ronald McDonald an ambassador or anything except expanding waistlines.

But Aristotle would be rotating in his grave.

What makes you think he hasn't been? :D

Christianity is a cornerstone of traditional European culture, but probably not of contemporary European culture (which is of course based on the traditional). But even more importantly, it is irrelevant for politics.

Why? 90% of Italy, Spain and Poland are Catholic, never mind the other nations with highly Christian populations. EVERY NATION in Europe has been majority Christian for over 1000 years. If politics don't take that in mind, then the politicians are irrelevant.
I'm not saying Theocracy. I'm saying that it IS relevant.

Of course I'm smarter than you! ;)
(Although some of the horror stories I hear about US Uni-Students' General Knowledge....)

Feh. I've met Europeans in University whom couldn't tell me the capital of Connecticut. Why should US kids be sneered at for not knowing where Slovenia is? It's all relative, IMHO.

Right. Nor has there been a war between any two countries that have McDonalds. Yet I would NOT call Ronald McDonald an ambassador or anything except expanding waistlines.

...
There was a McDonalds in 1999 Belgrade, IIRC. :rolleyes:

I havent met any Europeans who have put on airs for not being fluent in their language. On the most part they have been more than happy to teach me a few phrases that could come in useful while in their country. As long as you dont expect them straight away to speak english ,and then act like they are stupid when they speak their native language, they will generally be very nice about it. I know this doesnt apply to everyone but the majority are nice enough

I've encountered it somewhat often, actually.

Example: I went into a pub in Vienna, back in 2000. We were both in a good mood, having just walked a good chunk of the city and come back from the Prater and the Belvedere.

"Dva pivo?." (Slovak) Barkeep looked at me as if I'm a bumpkin.

"Zwei beir, bitter" (Switched to my (IMHO rather poor) German). He sighs and shakes his head at me, obviously upset I'm not a local.

I then go to English. "Two beers, please". He says "Ah, you an American! You accent is think!" (Yes, he said it that way :rolleyes: ).

Needless to say, his tip was a US nickel. Just to piss him off.

There was a McDonalds in 1999 Belgrade, IIRC. :rolleyes:

Right. And what country with McDonalds was Jugoslavia fighting? (It has to be two countries at war...)

I've encountered it somewhat often, actually.

Example: I went into a pub in Vienna, back in 2000. We were both in a good mood, having just walked a good chunk of the city and come back from the Prater and the Belvedere.

"Dva pivo?." (Slovak) Barkeep looked at me as if I'm a bumpkin.

"Zwei beir, bitter" (Switched to my (IMHO rather poor) German). He sighs and shakes his head at me, obviously upset I'm not a local.

I then go to English. "Two beers, please". He says "Ah, you an American! You accent is think!" (Yes, he said it that way :rolleyes: ).

Needless to say, his tip was a US nickel. Just to piss him off.

So that one barkeeper is enough to say that millions of europeans are the same?

p.s. its Bier and Bitte in german. sorry i study german and its a habit

Right. And what country with McDonalds was Jugoslavia fighting? (It has to be two countries at war...)
I don't remember whom Yugoslavia fought, but the aeroplanes that bombed Belgrad were certainly American... ;)

BTW, not all wars require two countries.

So that one barkeeper is enough to say that millions of europeans are the same?

p.s. its Bier and Bitte in german. sorry i study german and its a habit

Nope. But it's just one example. I can cite dozens. I'm not saying it's 100% of the time, or even 50%. But the times it does happen is VERY annoying.
I work in NYC. I go out of my way to help anyone who looks lost in Grand Central or on the street if I can. :)

ps: Thanks for proving my point. :D

I don't remember whom Yugoslavia fought, but the aeroplanes that bombed Belgrad were certainly American... ;)

BTW, not all wars require two countries.

Dude. The whole point was that the EU is an economic union, not a peacekeeping organization, and that while it's true that no two EU nations have ever gone to war with each other, no two nations with McDonalds have ever gone to war with each other either.

For what we were discussing, they do in this example.

Re: American planes: Yes, but you'll note that the US was not at war with Jugoslavia, and certainly not with the Chinese, whose embassy was unfortunately hit.

There's no difference from what Russia is planning to do and what other Western nations already do. The difference is that, the government is fully involved, while other richer democratic countries get private companies, third organizations, to do their bids (Hollywood for ex). Although I am against these hidden agendas by governments, it is also wrong for them to single out and point a finger at Russia while they do the same thing.

Nope. But it's just one example. I can cite dozens. I'm not saying it's 100% of the time, or even 50%. But the times it does happen is VERY annoying.
I work in NYC. I go out of my way to help anyone who looks lost in Grand Central or on the street if I can. :)

ps: Thanks for proving my point. :D

Yes but we simply have to accept that both sides of this argument will have stories of ignorant people from the other. I was in Florida recently and when I was in a shop I was asked (albeit jokingly) if i was in the IRA based on my accent. This showed a lot of ignorance on the part of this person but it does not make me think that it is a major american problem. It is just a very small number of idiots who make a country look bad, both in the US and abroad

There's no difference from what Russia is planning to do and what other Western nations already do. The difference is that, the government is fully involved, while other richer democratic countries get private companies, third organizations, to do their bids (Hollywood for ex). Although I am against these hidden agendas by governments, it is also wrong for them to single out and point a finger at Russia while they do the same thing.

Okay, this is at LEAST the 3rd time this allegation has been bandied about.

Please cite what "other Western nations already do. I'm not aware of Lincoln Brigades in the US, DeGaule Divisions in France, nor Wellington Warriors in the UK.

BTW: Hollywood is *not* a propoganda mill. There's too much money involved. Note movies like "Pearl Harbor" and "The Thin Red Line".

Dude. The whole point was that the EU is an economic union, not a peacekeeping organization, and that while it's true that no two EU nations have ever gone to war with each other, no two nations with McDonalds have ever gone to war with each other either.

For what we were discussing, they do in this example.

Re: American planes: Yes, but you'll note that the US was not at war with Jugoslavia, and certainly not with the Chinese, whose embassy was unfortunately hit.
1) 'Dude'?

2)Of course the EU is not a peacekeeping organization, but I don't like McDonald's analogy.

3) Ah! I should've known that the US aeroplanes were peacefully bombing Belgrade!

Yes but we simply have to accept that both sides of this argument will have stories of ignorant people from the other. I was in Florida recently and when I was in a shop I was asked (albeit jokingly) if i was in the IRA based on my accent. This showed a lot of ignorance on the part of this person but it does not make me think that it is a major american problem. It is just a very small number of idiots who make a country look bad, both in the US and abroad

So we can agree that in genreal, locals are idiots? :cool:

So we can agree that in genreal, locals are idiots? :cool:

I'll agree that a VERY small proportion of any country will be idiots but on the whole the populations are generally nice people

1) 'Dude'?

2)Of course the EU is not a peacekeeping organization, but I don't like McDonald's analogy.

3) Ah! I should've known that the US aeroplanes were peacefully bombing Belgrade!

1) Er... dudette?

2) Why? It's about as apt to me.

3) Hey, had the Russians kept their promise of Pan-Slavism and stayed in World War One, this would never have happened. ;)

1) Er... dudette?

2) Why? It's about as apt to me.

3) Hey, had the Russians kept their promise of Pan-Slavism and stayed in World War One, this would never have happened. ;)

1) Olantia is an online personality, thus I'm sexless... :D

2) I hate McDonald's...

3) Oh, don't remind me of that! I've always sympathized with poor HIRH Francis Ferdinand and his unhappy wife.

1) Olantia is an online personality, thus I'm sexless... :D

2) I hate McDonald's...

3) Oh, don't remind me of that! I've always sympathized with poor HIRH Francis Ferdinand and his unhappy wife.

1) Ah. And since English has no neuter case, I can use "dude".

2) So do I. I also hate it when folks think the EU has anything to do with peacekeeping, excellent financial/trade union though it is.

3) Yeah, I know, I know.

Servus,
Markreich

I think this is wery good i been to Russia more then one time and I go to school in US and there is a big diference in kids and in the way they look at ther country in US there is a flag in every room and they say the plage every morning and ther is no such thing in Russia and i have seen on tv the sex part of the program they try to tell people about AIDs and how it is easy to get them so i think its a wery good idea

I think this is wery good i been to Russia more then one time and I go to school in US and there is a big diference in kids and in the way they look at ther country in US there is a flag in every room and they say the plage every morning and ther is no such thing in Russia and i have seen on tv the sex part of the program they try to tell people about AIDs and how it is easy to get them so i think its a wery good idea

Saying the Pledge of Allegience is actually voluntary.

And in at least some schools in New Haven, Connecticut, it isn't even volutary: they don't do it at all. :(

What exactly is "patriotic sex education?"

I mean, how do you make it patriotic? Condoms in the national colours? Or maybe vodka flavoured ones?

Of course, being patriotic, it probably frowns upon the use of condoms
in any case. Part of the "make more Russians" school of thought, maybe?

Probably this is some sort of advice not to reproduce if one has a hereditary defect but that sort of advice never just stops there! often it moves into who should be eliminated!

This is scary and actually really bad. I always knew that old KGB was no good!

Any kind of initiative by any person, institution or state that seeks to increase and glorify patriotism can never be a good thing. It can only, and is, be a bad thing.

putin is the best leader,Russia has ever had exept maybe Peter the great...

Oh, please. Don't tell me you're one of those people who think that Russia needs a "strong leader".
Russians have been fooled by that line countless times. Every time a "strong leader" shows up in Russia, it leads to bully tactics in both domestic and foreign policy and a little genocide. The only people who need that are insecure hotheads with an inferiority complex who need a father figure.

Probably this is some sort of advice not to reproduce if one has a hereditary defect but that sort of advice never just stops there! often it moves into who should be eliminated!

This is scary and actually really bad. I always knew that old KGB was no good!
You're scaring yourself now, because your assumptions are completely unsubstantiated.

This is the evenest poll I've seen in ages.... much more so than I'd expected!!

About the EU again:
It is conceivable though that a political/economic union does prevent intra-european wars from occuring, no?
Could the UK go to war with France tomorrow? Or with Germany?
The sheer amount of integration makes it fairly impossible.

But I would still say that the USSR was probably a more important factor in stopping us from bombing each other yet again.

One of the problems with this is that the Russians blatantly lie about history. They (I mean official history) just call some great defeats great victories. E.g. if you look at what they call "the greatest tank battle ever" (during the Kursk Battle), they play a very simple game - first, they exaggerate the number of participating German tanks by 4 times (never mind that participating German units were not supposed to have anywhere near that number of tanks even at full strength), then, they exaggerate the number of destroyed German tanks by 80-100 (!!!) times, and, voila, one of the most catastrophic defeats in Russian history begins to look like an impressive victory. I'm afraid that that "victory" is high on the list of the victories that Putin is going teach the kids about. Some of smaller scale incidents widely celebrated in Russian history were just an outright invention of Stalin's propaganda. BTW I'm not saying that back in 1941 (when Soviet soldiers were very-very scared of tanks) spreading stories about 28 infantrymen repelling (in an open field!) an attack by 50 German tanks (and that's at the time when no effective manheld anti-tank weapons whatsoever yet existed!) was necessarily bad (I mean, why not, if they were actually raising morale). But keeping repeating those tales now IS bad.

About the EU again:
It is conceivable though that a political/economic union does prevent intra-european wars from occuring, no?
Could the UK go to war with France tomorrow? Or with Germany?
The sheer amount of integration makes it fairly impossible.

But I would still say that the USSR was probably a more important factor in stopping us from bombing each other yet again.

NATO. The UK wasn't even in the EU until 1973.
Is the EU *a* factor? Sure.
Is it a peacekeeping body? Hell no.

Is it a peacekeeping body? Hell no.
Unless it sends peacekeeping forces somewhere.... :D

Unless it sends peacekeeping forces somewhere.... :D

4% of Europe's military has airlift capability (mostly, the UK's). That might be enough to pacify Belize. Maybe. ;)

Didn't Marx say that patriotism is the opiate of the people?

Didn't Marx say that patriotism is the opiate of the people?
That was Religion. But he didn't like Patriotism/Nationalism either, cuz it just leads to workers killing other workers.

4% of Europe's military has airlift capability (mostly, the UK's). That might be enough to pacify Belize. Maybe. ;)
Well, German Forces at least are doing a good job in many places, including Kosovo and Afghanistan (where they are apparently liked by the population, unlike American forces in their sectors...)

Woah... when was Stalin put back in office?

:rolleyes:

Well, German Forces at least are doing a good job in many places, including Kosovo and Afghanistan (where they are apparently liked by the population, unlike American forces in their sectors...)

Yeah, it's really tough when it's in vogue to have foreigners hate your country because they hate it's President, whom is only slightly less to the right than Reagan. Really doesn't play well in the overly socialized nations that are used to lots of government handouts. :p