NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?


Sorry for jumping the question but what do you mean by PATRIOT act ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?

Err... it's a token. And it has nothing to do with the Patriot act.

(In any event, don't you live in the UK?).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?

It became more serious now that we are in a massive war. That was a rare incident that took place in Tokyo and people have short-term memories. Now there have been 2 attacks on subways in London and now we know just how vulnerable they are.

Nice jab at the PATRIOT Act. However, no civil liberties have been attacked by this act.

How does this remotely attack civil liberties? Bag checks are everywhere, why not subways? And it will help crack down on drugs. The NYPD has the authority to arrest anyone carrying anything illegal, even if it has nothing to do with bombs.

we have limited resources. it's a simple risk analysis.









also, it's not a big deal or anything, but it's really strange to my American eyes to read about the "New York Tube". We usually refer to it as the subway. as i said, no biggie.

Ah.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?

Dang... where to start?

First, I am an attorney.

Second, the patriot act has nothing to do with the subway searches whatsoever.

third, as a non-american, i won't hold you accountable for not knowing that the patriot act merely extends investigative powers that have been used for decades in the fight against organized crime and drug rings to fighting international terrorism. critics of the patriot act can't articulate how it allegedly infringes on their civil liberties. i'm betting you can't either.

How'd you feel if you're standing in the middle of a crowd and the NYPD cop comes up and tells you you've got to open your bag.

People are going to be staring at you. People are going to murmur... You're going to, even if you know you've got nothing to hide, want to crawl under a rock and die.

As I recall they tend to do it quite well, look at any PATRIOT Act thread.

The only response you have is 'the innocent have nothing to fear' and if you don't know that's BS by now I have no hope for you.

How'd you feel if you're standing in the middle of a crowd and the NYPD cop comes up and tells you you've got to open your bag.

They do this at airports so why can't it be done at subway stations?

People are going to be staring at you. People are going to murmur... You're going to, even if you know you've got nothing to hide, want to crawl under a rock and die.

So why can we do this at airports and not at any other form of transportation?

How'd you feel if you're standing in the middle of a crowd and the NYPD cop comes up and tells you you've got to open your bag.

People are going to be staring at you. People are going to murmur... You're going to, even if you know you've got nothing to hide, want to crawl under a rock and die.


I'd feel a major 4th amendment lawsuit coming on because that's illegal and that's not what's happening.

I'd feel a major 4th amendment lawsuit coming on because that's illegal and that's not what's happening.

It's exactly what's happening. At least in the UK Law work requires reading comprehension.

They do this at airports so why can't it be done at subway stations?



So why can we do this at airports and not at any other form of transportation?


we can, and as of this week, we are.

most amusement parks have been doing this for years, too. people just don't like bush and look for anything to complain about.

there's a big difference between requiring someone to open their bag before voluntarily using public transportation and requiring to open their bag when they're just walking down the street. hopefully, this needs no further explanation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?
Hey, Wurzelmania, I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll start calling the underground trains in London tubes, if you start calling the underground trains in New York subways.

It's exactly what's happening. At least in the UK Law work requires reading comprehension.

there's a difference between requiring someone to open their bags before getting onto a train and requiring someone to open a bag who is just standing in the middle of a crowd in a public forum. the latter is what was described. the former is what's actually happening. but you would have to know what you're talking about for this distinction not to have to be made. if you were in the U.S., i would tell you to ask any lawyer, police officer, or judge, and they would tell you that one is illegal and one isn't.

if uk law work, as you so eloquently put it, requires reading comprehension, i'm guessing you don't do uk law work.

we can, and as of this week, we are.

most amusement parks have been doing this for years, too. people just don't like bush and look for anything to complain about.

I know about the amusement parks. I visit them all the time. Fun places to be at and I don't mind them searching people. After all, amusement parks are high profile targets.

And your right. People don't like Bush but you know? They are in the minority in this country.

there's a big difference between requiring someone to open their bag before voluntarily using public transportation and requiring to open their bag when they're just walking down the street. hopefully, this needs no further explanation.

It doesn't. I understand it fine.

How'd you feel if you're standing in the middle of a crowd and the NYPD cop comes up and tells you you've got to open your bag.

People are going to be staring at you. People are going to murmur... You're going to, even if you know you've got nothing to hide, want to crawl under a rock and die.
That's happened to me any number of times at airports. Why should subway passengers have any special right to privacy?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?
I am from ny I decided to walk to work today because I didn't feel like a fat cop rooting through my fucking backpack. I would much rather endure the .00001 percent chance of getting blown up than having some dude with a low paycheck but an inflated sense of power because of his badge and gun, messing with all my stuff. I am not saying all cops are jerks but I have had plenty of annoying encounters with cops either pulling me over for no reason and trying to trick me into "confessing" to either have been drinking or smoking weed or some other bullshit just becasue I am young and look not quite normal.

Anyway it is nice to see that the 4th amendment is now completely eliminated with reguards to police searches towards our nation's citizenry. Way to go hammering yet another nail into the coffin of a free and open society Mayor Bloomberg.

Anyway it is nice to see that the 4th amendment is now completely eliminated with reguards to police searches towards our nation's citizenry. Way to go hammering yet another nail into the coffin of a free and open society Mayor Bloomberg.

How is it eliminated when its security at transportation? You do know that there are rules regarding this right? The 4th Amendment isn't being violated here.

How is it eliminated when its security at transportation? You do know that there are rules regarding this right? The 4th Amendment isn't being violated here.
OK so NYC citizens are going to be subject to police searches and harrassment on a daily basis just for going about our daily business? This isn't like walking through a metal dector on your trip to florida. Almost everyone in NYC, especially in Manhattan take the subway or the bus everyday. OK feel free to put a cop on every subway station, but there is no way they should be able to search your shit without having some reason to suspect you. New York City is already enough of a police state these days. Somehow I get the feeling there are going to be 1000s of people getting locked up for having weed in their bag because of these searches and mysteriously few terror suspects found.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4705871.stm

Why now? We've known they are vulnerable since Aum Shinrikyo took their shot in Tokyo. Is it a rushed token or an extension of the way the PATRIOT Act has attacked civil liberties?
Because the NYPD wants to look like it is DOING SOMETHING, although since they refuse to profile who they search, the searches are worse then useless, since their effect is just to piss people off and delay them without having even the tangible effect of perhaps stopping an incident.

OK so NYC citizens are going to be subject to police searches and harrassment on a daily basis just for going about our daily business?

As far as I can tell...

ITS ONLY FOR THE SUBWAYS!!!!!!!!

Its mass transportation. They are trying to make it safer so you CAN travel the subways. Interesting logic isn't it? I'm still waiting on how it violates the 4th amendment since airports have the same security.

This isn't like walking through a metal dector on your trip to florida. Almost everyone in NYC, especially in Manhattan take the subway or the bus everyday. OK feel free to put a cop on every subway station, but there is no way they should be able to search your shit without having some reason to suspect you.

If your acting suspicious, I expect them to search you.

New York City is already enough of a police state these days.

How?

Somehow I get the feeling there are going to be 1000s of people getting locked up for having weed in their bag because of these searches and mysteriously few terror suspects found.

Ohhh weed! Yea. You do know that weed is illegal in the country right?

I don't see the problem, its protcting commuters, staff and business. People are going to feel more secure. If people are caught with illegal materials well thats tough luck mainly because they are illegal and you shouldn't be in possesion of these things on public transport anyway.

How?

If I remember correctly, NYC has the most police per capita of any medium to large city in the U.S.

If I remember correctly, NYC has the most police per capita of any medium to large city in the U.S.

And that makes it a police state how?

And that makes it a police state how?
Um well for one thing when ever anyone tries to organize a protest of any magnitude the police department simply says it will be too much of a burden on the police department then they always deny the permits. So for protests like against the RNC or agianst the War they just declare protests "illegal" because they decided not to give anyone a permit for them and hundreds of people always get arrested. Then there are of course your typicall run of the mill police shootings like Amadou Diallo, Patrick Dorismond, Abner Louima and the like where the cops get off lightly for their carnage. Then of course there is the constant arrest and harrassment of homeless people for simply being homeless.... Yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah...

How'd you feel if you're standing in the middle of a crowd and the NYPD cop comes up and tells you you've got to open your bag.

People are going to be staring at you. People are going to murmur... You're going to, even if you know you've got nothing to hide, want to crawl under a rock and die.

Bull.
Going to sport events and museums, EVERYONE who has a bag must open it to be examined. We're very used to it.

You have a choice, too. You can refuse to be searched -- but then you will be escorted from the subway.They are going to stop every fifth person, and anyone they feel is looking/acting suspiciously. Instead of pissing and moaning about the cops abusing you, why don't you all give a hearty thank you to the people responsible for it -- extremist nutjobs with a penchant for blowing themselves and others to bloody mist.