NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's an E-mail I got from my mom the other day.

"Hi Ryan,
I hope you are well. Have you received your package yet? Please call before you have to fly out to the ship. The track coach, Bruce Mankinson, was fired from being the track coach because he called a black kid Kunta Kintae and when he wrote the apology note he handed it to the kid and said "you sure you can read this". What a horrible man. I wish they would fire him from teaching but they said he is tenured and has been a teacher for 30 years and Shasta High doesn't what to go through the struggle of trying to fire him. Well I hope he has learned how to be a better person because of all the media attention on him. Well Ryan I am looking forward to hearing from you. Love Mom"

Now, the truly screwed up thing isn't that Mr. Makinson is a racist, because that isn't the fault of the system. The truly screwed up thing is that the school knows they can't fire him. They know that they will go bankrupt if they try because the Teacher's Union is so powerful, and would take it to court to defend the racist. The Teacher's Union is one of the biggest, nastiest unions out there.

They know that they will go bankrupt if they try because the Teacher's Union is so powerful, and would take it to court to defend the racist. The Teacher's Union is one of the biggest, nastiest unions out there

Yes it is. Any organization that is against paying someone based on their performance is backward.

-snip-
Yeah, I had huge battles with some of my teachers in the elder days...

Nonetheless, teachers are very important people. Afterall they are supposed to turn kiddies into people.
One more reason to weed out the morons.

Yeah, I had huge battles with some of my teachers in the elder days...

Nonetheless, teachers are very important people. Afterall they are supposed to turn kiddies into people.
One more reason to weed out the morons.The Teacher's Union is evil, though. They defend the bad teachers as vigorously as the good ones, which is horrible.

The Teacher's Union is evil, though. They defend the bad teachers as vigorously as the good ones, which is horrible.
Agreed. But in general, I still think Unions are a good idea.
And now I will sleep.

Yes it is. Any organization that is against paying someone based on their performance is backward.
Sarcasm?

... The Teachers Union should realise that because they back up this guy despite (because of?) what he's done, they are essentially pro-racist, therefore, pro-right-wing, therefore pro-Nazi. If they don't realise this, then that just shows how ignorant they are. I am Totally with Ryania on this one

The dissonance between the actual subject of this thread and its title is enough to give one a headache.

The assumption that a negative anecdote would be enough to discredit the union movement works as an antidote to the former, as it's so silly.

The dissonance between the actual subject of this thread and its title is enough to give one a headache.

The assumption that a negative anecdote would be enough to discredit the union movement works as an antidote to the former, as it's so silly.Before this goes any further I AM NOT AGAINST UNIONS!!!

Sarcasm?

... The Teachers Union should realise that because they back up this guy despite (because of?) what he's done, they are essentially pro-racist, therefore, pro-right-wing, therefore pro-Nazi. If they don't realise this, then that just shows how ignorant they are. I am Totally with Ryania on this one
And how does that make them pro-right-wing?
Nor really pro-nazi?

Or are you just trying to get a rize out of people by using emotive retoric

Here's an E-mail I got from my mom the other day.

"Hi Ryan,
I hope you are well. Have you received your package yet? Please call before you have to fly out to the ship. The track coach, Bruce Mankinson, was fired from being the track coach because he called a black kid Kunta Kintae and when he wrote the apology note he handed it to the kid and said "you sure you can read this". What a horrible man. I wish they would fire him from teaching but they said he is tenured and has been a teacher for 30 years and Shasta High doesn't what to go through the struggle of trying to fire him. Well I hope he has learned how to be a better person because of all the media attention on him. Well Ryan I am looking forward to hearing from you. Love Mom"

Now, the truly screwed up thing isn't that Mr. Makinson is a racist, because that isn't the fault of the system. The truly screwed up thing is that the school knows they can't fire him. They know that they will go bankrupt if they try because the Teacher's Union is so powerful, and would take it to court to defend the racist. The Teacher's Union is one of the biggest, nastiest unions out there.

Before you rant about the "Teacher's Union," perhaps you should consider that your mother's pithy e-mail does not contain all of the facts.

Moreoever, although I am horrified by what the teacher said, you really think someone should lose their 30-year career for saying 2 stupid words? When you don't even know the context?

Sarcasm?

... The Teachers Union should realise that because they back up this guy despite (because of?) what he's done, they are essentially pro-racist, therefore, pro-right-wing, therefore pro-Nazi. If they don't realise this, then that just shows how ignorant they are. I am Totally with Ryania on this one

See my above post. You are jumping to harsh conclusions based on very limited facts.

Nonetheless, the so-called "Teacher's Union" is even more justified in not simply abandoning a 30-year member and teacher for making one stupid, stupid remark. A union that does not protect its members when they are down is worthless.

Here's an E-mail I got from my mom the other day.

"Hi Ryan,
I hope you are well. Have you received your package yet? Please call before you have to fly out to the ship. The track coach, Bruce Mankinson, was fired from being the track coach because he called a black kid Kunta Kintae and when he wrote the apology note he handed it to the kid and said "you sure you can read this". What a horrible man. I wish they would fire him from teaching but they said he is tenured and has been a teacher for 30 years and Shasta High doesn't what to go through the struggle of trying to fire him. Well I hope he has learned how to be a better person because of all the media attention on him. Well Ryan I am looking forward to hearing from you. Love Mom"

Now, the truly screwed up thing isn't that Mr. Makinson is a racist, because that isn't the fault of the system. The truly screwed up thing is that the school knows they can't fire him. They know that they will go bankrupt if they try because the Teacher's Union is so powerful, and would take it to court to defend the racist. The Teacher's Union is one of the biggest, nastiest unions out there.

So he's been teaching for 30 years? that makes him in his 50's?
His attitude is more age related than necessarily racism. My mother-in-law is not much older and she routinely calls black people "darkies" or worse. She means it with no malice but just doesn't understand political correctness. To her it's all in the intention.
Remember when this guy was young you still had segregation in the US.
What do we know about this kid? is he stupid and rude?

I'm not sypathising with the teacher here (he's made his own bed) but just playing devils advocate. Surely sacking him over a single offence which he may not even realise is offensive doesn't seem right. What caused a 30 year teacher to put his foot in his mouth like this?

The union will ask the same questions and defend him if the kid pushed him to make a foolish mistake and I'm sure it's his word against the boys. Best would probably be admonishment and moving to a new school (unless you have an excess of skilled teachers in the US)

See my above post. You are jumping to harsh conclusions based on very limited facts.

Nonetheless, the so-called "Teacher's Union" is even more justified in not simply abandoning a 30-year member and teacher for making one stupid, stupid remark. A union that does not protect its members when they are down is worthless.
That's what I said (sort of) only a bit later. :(

See my above post. You are jumping to harsh conclusions based on very limited facts.

Nonetheless, the so-called "Teacher's Union" is even more justified in not simply abandoning a 30-year member and teacher for making one stupid, stupid remark. A union that does not protect its members when they are down is worthless.Yes... I agree with you, but doesn't this merit at least a suspension from teaching? I mean, if you don't get rid of him, you can suspend him after all....or does the Teachers' Union want him to go completely unpunished?

Our 1SG called a soldier Shaka once.

What's a "Kunta Kintae" and why is it offensive?

Our 1SG called a soldier Shaka once.
I think the race card is played just a bit too often now days.
I have been called and have called people all kinds of obscene things in the forces.
If someone is a red head he's " a ginger headed fu*K wit",
if he's tall he's "a lanky string of Pi*s"
if he's black he's......wait we can't use his most obvious feature to describe him.
I've actually had someone described to me as "tall, black hair, well built", I didn't get who they meant until I realised they meant the asian bloke I worked with!!

People are not really that polite to each other are they? so why are we excessively polite to black people? I realise racism is common and very wrong but this inability to use the word black or to treat a black person in EXACTLY the same way as a white person really doesn't help.

I think the race card is played just a bit too often now days.
I have been called and have called people all kinds of obscene things in the forces.
If someone is a red head he's " a ginger headed fu*K wit",
if he's tall he's "a lanky string of Pi*s"
if he's black he's......wait we can't use his most obvious feature to describe him.
I've actually had someone described to me as "tall, black hair, well built", I didn't get who they meant until I realised they meant the asian bloke I worked with!!

People are not really that polite to each other are they? so why are we excessively polite to black people? I realise racism is common and very wrong but this inability to use the word black or to treat a black person in EXACTLY the same way as a white person really doesn't help.

This wasn't in the military, though. This was at a high school.

What's a "Kunta Kintae" and why is it offensive?

Google.com (http://www.google.se/search?q=kunta+kinte&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

What's a "Kunta Kintae" and why is it offensive?

http://www.netmoon.com/startrek/imagetng/laforge.jpg

Kunta Kinte.

Here's an E-mail I got from my mom the other day.

"Hi Ryan,
I hope you are well. Have you received your package yet? Please call before you have to fly out to the ship. The track coach, Bruce Mankinson, was fired from being the track coach because he called a black kid Kunta Kintae and when he wrote the apology note he handed it to the kid and said "you sure you can read this". What a horrible man. I wish they would fire him from teaching but they said he is tenured and has been a teacher for 30 years and Shasta High doesn't what to go through the struggle of trying to fire him. Well I hope he has learned how to be a better person because of all the media attention on him. Well Ryan I am looking forward to hearing from you. Love Mom"

Now, the truly screwed up thing isn't that Mr. Makinson is a racist, because that isn't the fault of the system. The truly screwed up thing is that the school knows they can't fire him. They know that they will go bankrupt if they try because the Teacher's Union is so powerful, and would take it to court to defend the racist. The Teacher's Union is one of the biggest, nastiest unions out there.
When the series "Roots" was running, one of my children related a story about a fellow student who was African American. One of the teachers had asked a question, to which he apparently got the standard high school student response, which is to say no response at all. He then called on this young man, referring to him by name. The student, in a mock surly tone, responded, "Kunta Kinte. My name is Kunta Kinte." The general response was laughter, including the teacher.

Few people would call the student racist, particularly since the statment was obviously made in jest. My point is, we weren't there, we don't know in what context the statement was made, or whether the student was justified in taking offense. Calling the teacher "racist" seems a bit extreme to me in the absence of more information.

What's a "Kunta Kintae" and why is it offensive?
It's the name of the first character in the long-running movie series "Roots," by Alex Haley. Kunta Kinte was kidnapped by slavers, transported to the Southern US and given a "white" name by his new owners. He refused to ( among other things ) respond to his new name, muttering under his breath, "Kunta Kinte. My name is Kunta Kinte."

This wasn't in the military, though. This was at a high school.
OK that's odd. Abusing adults is one thing...

perhaps you should consider that your mother's pithy e-mail does not contain all of the facts.Pithy means "precise and meaningful." Here are the news articles.
http://www1.redding.com/redd/nw_local/article/0,2232,REDD_17533_3920565,00.html

http://www1.redding.com/redd/nw_local/article/0,2232,REDD_17533_3937178,00.html

is he stupid and rude?My mother and I know Greg and his brothers, and they're all very nice kids. I graduated from that school in 2004.

Sarcasm?

... The Teachers Union should realise that because they back up this guy despite (because of?) what he's done, they are essentially pro-racist, therefore, pro-right-wing, therefore pro-Nazi.

Huh? All racists are pro-Nazi? Tell that to Mugabe.

Our 1SG called a soldier Shaka once.

How is this racist? Calling a soldier Shaka after Shaka Zulu is hardly a slur is it? The chap was the south African equivalent of Alexander the Great...

See my above post. You are jumping to harsh conclusions based on very limited facts.

Nonetheless, the so-called "Teacher's Union" is even more justified in not simply abandoning a 30-year member and teacher for making one stupid, stupid remark. A union that does not protect its members when they are down is worthless.

Okay, let's just assume that the email is essentially true in respect of the facts though. I would say that the problem is not the fault of the Teachers Union per se - who would be obliged to defend a member regardless of their actions - but rather the school board for not even trying to persue some form of disciplinary action.

The problem as I see it is not so much Unions, but rather management here.

(And if the email is correct as to the facts, that teacher should be fired, his behavior is disgraceful).

Huh? All racists are pro-Nazi? Tell that to Mugabe.



How is this racist? Calling a soldier Shaka after Shaka Zulu is hardly a slur is it? The chap was the south African equivalent of Alexander the Great...

Where did I say it was exactly? I thought it was funny, more than anything. However, he then called SGT Lo, a Hmoang (sp?), Charlie, and that wasn't cool.

Where did I say it was exactly?

You didn't, however, context lead me to read it as such.

I thought it was funny, more than anything. However, he then called SGT Lo, a Hmoang (sp?), Charlie, and that wasn't cool.

Now, that to me seems out of order.

I don't think there is tenure at the schools around here. They do have a last hired, first fired kind of thing when there are cutbacks, but that's a seniority matter, one can still get fired for incompotence.

What world do we live in where you cannot call a black person Kunta Kinte? WHAT HAVE WE COME TO? :(

Where did I say it was exactly? I thought it was funny, more than anything. However, he then called SGT Lo, a Hmoang (sp?), Charlie, and that wasn't cool.

Hmong.

And what's wrong with calling him Charlie? Sorry, over in England we've got a completely different set of racial slurs to worry about NEVER EVER USING BECAUSE IT'S WORSE THAN RAPE, so I'm not up on how to insult, well, Charlies.

Hmong.

And what's wrong with calling him Charlie? Sorry, over in England we've got a completely different set of racial slurs to worry about NEVER EVER USING BECAUSE IT'S WORSE THAN RAPE, so I'm not up on how to insult, well, Charlies.
Under the vietnam war, the enemy was called "Charlie".

Also, aren't the English super polite?

Yes it is. Any organization that is against paying someone based on their performance is backward.

i agree that its nasty, or in this case it would be if it defended his racist actions. but the performance related pay thing doesn't make it backwards. how do you assess performance? I went to a grammer school, where all the kids are fairly bright and motivated, and so its not so hard to teach them.

when i got to 6th form, where the admitance policy was less strict, and the classes were of more varied ability, the teachers either needed to be more skilled teachers, or the classes weren't as good.

should a grammer school teacher be paid more for an easier job than a state school teacher who has to work harder and will often get worse results than the grammer school equivalent?

i agree that its nasty, or in this case it would be if it defended his racist actions. but the performance related pay thing doesn't make it backwards. how do you assess performance? I went to a grammer school, where all the kids are fairly bright and motivated, and so its not so hard to teach them.

when i got to 6th form, where the admitance policy was less strict, and the classes were of more varied ability, the teachers either needed to be more skilled teachers, or the classes weren't as good.

should a grammer school teacher be paid more for an easier job than a state school teacher who has to work harder and will often get worse results than the grammer school equivalent?
It should be based on their performance. You can't measure the "hardness" of a job.

Why has the problem been identified as the teachers union? Firstly, there are TWO teachers unions in the US. Secondly, the union was never contacted. We do not know if they would have supported this man or not (being a union, he pays for them to support him, same as all union...but none the less, they were never contacted). The issue is not the union, but the fact that the school was not even willing to pursue the issue. While firing would be very difficult due to tenure, they could have suspended him, reprimanded him, or strongly encouraged him to resign. They stripped him of his coach position. That is a punishment. I don't think the "Kunta Kinte" comment was so bad, but the following remark was pretty bad. Perhaps they should go farther.

But as stated before, we do not know all the facts. Unless the writer of the letter is a person directly involved in the case (excluding the boy or the coach), then there is a lack, I would assume that there was atleast one meeting to discus possible actions. Additionally, just because the man will not be fired, that does not mean the school board is not taking action.

Under the vietnam war, the enemy was called "Charlie".

Also, aren't the English super polite?
Yeah, we always say please and thank you before we tell you to fuck off. :D

No really, we are no more polite than anyone else in Europe but we have got more rude words than most other languages. Some we don't share with Americans (ha, try telling a woman she's got a nice fanny in this country :p )

Wow, Godwined on the sixth post...

Wow, Godwined on the sixth post...

True, but Godwin doesn't actually say anything about who wins or loses a debate on that basis, it is just an observation of a tendency.