NationStates Jolt Archive

Hmm? Thoughts? I doubt I need to say why.

I want to learn Arabic, then Canadian!

Definitely. It should be second language in all English-speaking countries (ie taught in schools, and not as an elective either).

Already it is the most commonly spoken language on the planet, and economically, China will be top-dog soon enough.

I want to learn Arabic, then Canadian!
I just know one Canadian word, aboot.

I believe it means "I'm feeling rather gay for you," but I'm not quite sure yet.

Definitely. It should be second language in all English-speaking countries (ie taught in schools, and not as an elective either).

Already it is the most commonly spoken language on the planet, and economically, China will be top-dog soon enough.
Erm, I think mandatory Chinese lessons are a bit much. I mean, that's kind of submitting to them a few decades early.

I just know one Canadian word, aboot.

I believe it means "I'm feeling rather gay for you," but I'm not quite sure yet.

Take off, eh.

And I'd want to learn at least a few curse words in Chinese, after watching Firefly.

Hmm? Thoughts? I doubt I need to say why.

All you need to know is how to say "me love you long time!"

If I knew Spanish and Chinese the number of jobs in my field that I could apply for would increase a great deal. I live in California I should at least learn Spanish, but Chinese, at least up here in the good part of California (you knew I had to work that in there somewhere), is almost equally useful. Well, tegalug (wow, I'm just going to leave that up-I live where I live but can't spell that. wow.) would be useful (at least I could learn to spell it right...tagalog, that's how you spell that...shame on me...)

-snip-
:confused:
Why? In non-English speaking countries English is a mandatory subject. At least in Germany. And we're better for it.
If things go on as they do then Mandarin will soon rival English as the Lingua Franca. Do you want to be left out?

If you view it as important, then yes. Otherwise, no.

At the current moment though, all I know of Chinese I learned from the backs of fortune cookies.

We have mandatory Chinese classes. I've been learning for 10 years and last year I was moved into the Chinese as a Second Language, Beginners class. Ugh. I feel like an idiot.

Of course, the 10 years experiance means that I am quite a lot better than the beginners, and so I've been getting A*'s and the Chinese award.

Chinese is fun, well not really. It's incredibly hard. Not really either. I think mandatory speaking is fine, but not mandatory reading and writing because that's what I hate.

But it's fun, because being half white, whenever I go into the mainland, shopkeepers are in such a shock that I can speak mandarin that i get discounts.

I just know one Canadian word, aboot.

I believe it means "I'm feeling rather gay for you," but I'm not quite sure yet.

Hey, uh, what does hoiser mean? Is it something like being from Quebec?
Me confused, y'all.

I wish it would of been mandatory because for 1, I would of had the choice, and 2, I dont have the motivation to learn it well on my own.

I think we should be going for japanese. Because China, like all corrupt dictatorships before it will collapse due to lack of innovation, they will rely on their people, rather then upgrading. And japan would be set to take over because they are techno as well as mech fit. And they have better GDP per capita then the US. Also, china and the US will get in a cold war, leaving japan on the US's side, but not millitraily, beause they see the point in not have a cold war with china.

Chinese will become an important language due to it's stepping up to the economic plate recently (and how!). Spainish is also, as mentioned, important, simply due to the sheer amount of countries that use it. I think Chinese should be taught early on in life, while the brain readily accepts new languages, due to the sheer difficulty of learning a language with an entirely different alphabet. But another question must be raised- Mandarin or Cantonese? There's a huge amount of variation between the two, and they're both pretty damn useful in the asian sector.

I live in B.C. Canada and here the public schools aren't capable of producing people that can speak French(one of Canada's official languages). I think Chinese should be taugh here even if it means not learning french. Mainly because _alot_ of people in the Greater Vancouver area speak Chinese. Their is an entire section of Vancouver where Chinese is the first language. Learning Chinese would be quite relative, especialy since B.C.'s population is supposed to be half Chinese within the next 20-50 years.

"So...should we really be learning Chinese?"

Couldn't hurt. They are, after all, the single most populous nation on earth. :)

Also, china and the US will get in a cold war, leaving japan on the US's side, but not millitraily, beause they see the point in not have a cold war with china.


Please don't go into the military stuff again. It should be noted, however, that Japan has a HUGE fleet, mainly ex-american ships got on the cheap, because during the cold war it was the most effective blockade against the Chinese navy. They may well get involved in a cold war situation, they're not exactly ideal neighbours, but i'm conifident that won't happen

"So...should we really be learning Chinese?"

Couldn't hurt. They are, after all, the single most populous nation on earth. :)

Not for long... In five years, we'll all be talking about India, the most populous nation on Earth.

So maybe Hindi, or Telegu or whatever the majority speak. They're also much better allies than the Chinese, and aren't a communist dictatorship. That's pretty nifty.

Also, to the guy who wanted to speak Tagalog, don't bother if you're planning on visiting the Philippines. I'm here now, and they all speak English. It's an easy language to learn though, especially if you know Spanish.

That's true. The Indians too, are gaining in influence. Not as qucikly, but they will soon become wuite the political power. I must admit though, a lot of educated Indians speak english better than my counterparts :)

China will be top-dog soon enough.

As a Chinese person, I have doubts to that. Chinese is only useful if one wants to do business in China (which is not unusual as it is the work's largest market and factory). In terms of impacting world culture, nothing manages to beat good ol' English.

Not as a deterrrence to potential students, Chinese is amongst some of the hardest language to learn.

In terms of impacting world culture, nothing manages to beat good ol' English.
Oh, there was a time when nothing could beat good ol' French. Or Italian. Or Latin. Or Greek....

Oh, there was a time when nothing could beat good ol' French. Or Italian. Or Latin. Or Greek....

Latin pwned them all until it fell out off use. English is arguably the most widespread language in the world. The Chinese only have cheap points because of population.

Considering that the Chinese have the largest population on the planet, it's going to be difficult for them to compete. Let learning to speak English be one of the decisive factors when it comes to competition...

You should all be learning Chinese, so I can stop typing English and type some good ole Chinese characters!

大家好! 我們一起學習中文和漢語吧!

(Hello! Let's learn the Chinese language and the Chinese writing!)

Da jia hao! Wo men yi qi shue xi Zhong wen he Han yu ba!

Romanized Chinese would probably be the best way to get it taught widespread outside of China.

Let learning to speak English be one of the decisive factors when it comes to competition...
For the time being, yes. That is probably the primary factor India has over the Chinese.
But once America ends, and that could be soon or in an age, English will fade too, just like Latin did...

For the time being, yes. That is probably the primary factor India has over the Chinese.
But once America ends, and that could be soon or in an age, English will fade too, just like Latin did...
Or French...

Or French...
Hehe, kind of. But France still exists, and the Roman Empire doesn't.
Anyways, I just try to stay away from the France topic - you know where that always leads. ;)

Hehe, kind of. But France still exists, and the Roman Empire doesn't.
Anyways, I just try to stay away from the France topic - you know where that always leads. ;)
I do, but why do you think they call the primarily used language in the world the Lingua Franca ? Means French language in Latin because that's what French was to the world at the time the term got coined. French is still the official language of diplomacy today, which is why diplomat cars have the sticker CD (corps diplomatique) on the back and not a DC.

I do, but why do you think they call the primarily used language in the world the Lingua Franca ?
True that, true that.
You learn something new everyday.... :)

@Dragon's Bay: Your little sentence really confused me. You had pu tong hua pin yin but had complex characters in the character sentence, I thought only Cantonese had the complex characters.

@Sino: I've found Chinese easier to learn than the German I did at GCSE (I finished doing the IB this year and got a 7 ab initio Chinese which is similar to GCSE standard). No silly endings for gender or tense or whatever to words is a great help for anyone wanting to learn some Chinese.

@Sino: I've found Chinese easier to learn than the German I did at GCSE (I finished doing the IB this year and got a 7 ab initio Chinese which is similar to GCSE standard). No silly endings for gender or tense or whatever to words is a great help for anyone wanting to learn some Chinese.

That's only at GSCE level. Wait 'til you learn grammar and proper speaking, most foreigners have real trouble pronoucing a lot of Chinese words.


Here's another reason why the Chinese won't dominate the world: They're too f*ckin' nice as a people!

Everyday, White people laugh at Chinese who are struggling to speak English but the Chinese never really laughed at White people struggling to speak Chinese. Well, apart from me, because I enjoy making fun of them.

I think GCSE standard is probably the lowest standard you can get

@Dragon's Bay: Your little sentence really confused me. You had pu tong hua pin yin but had complex characters in the character sentence, I thought only Cantonese had the complex characters.

Pu tong hua ping yin is for Mandarin pronounciation, just like the older and largely discarded zhu yin. Despite all the dialects (e.g. Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.), they share the same characters. The characters mean the same when no matter which dialect is used to pronounce them. Dragon's Bay's from HK, so he uses Traditional. I'm from the Mainland and I was taught Simplified (UN recognised).

no much point. IMO

It's an overly complicated language. Each word has its own character? and it works on tones?

As an international language, english will remain the main one for quite a while to come.
I know there have been others, ie french, roman, etc... But the period we live in is a bit different no? education/literacy levels, etc...

Unlike English, Chinese isn't as easy for non-native speakers to learn. English will remain the world's language for at least a few centuries.

I agree that English is much easier to learn than Chinese, especially for all of us who are not used to make out the tonal variations, but it will become much more important and it will be necessary to at least be able to read pin yin. I'd really like being able to understand the characters, though.

To the people in Philippines, how come that it was a Spanish colony for 400 years and then everybody is speaking English after less than 50 of US rule?

As a scholar of the English language, I could sing from the highest rooftops of it's importance. But I won't. Why? Because I have recently thought of the importance of being multilingual.

You'll probably find many compitent english speakers amongst a foreign (wouldn't they be local if you were... ah nevermind) population, but they aren't exactly going to hang around all day to suit your every whim. It akso gives an air of savvy and respect if you can communicate with someone in the language THEY are most comfortable with.

Of course, with our advances in translation technology and voice recognition, PDAs and mobiles may well erode the language barrier...

@Dragon's Bay: Your little sentence really confused me. You had pu tong hua pin yin but had complex characters in the character sentence, I thought only Cantonese had the complex characters.

I know both Cantonese and Mandarin and also both Traditional and Simplified characters. Chinese has to be the weirdest language in the world with two texts and a million dialects that hardly sound alike.

@Sino: I've found Chinese easier to learn than the German I did at GCSE (I finished doing the IB this year and got a 7 ab initio Chinese which is similar to GCSE standard). No silly endings for gender or tense or whatever to words is a great help for anyone wanting to learn some Chinese.

IB?? WHAT DID YOU TAKE? WHAT DID YOU GET??? I did too. Lol.

Hmm? Thoughts? I doubt I need to say why.
standard Chinese or mandarin?

Dragon's Bay's from HK, so he uses Traditional. I'm from the Mainland and I was taught Simplified (UN recognised).

UN recognised, but loses all the artistic, historical and cultural value that traditional characters have. Too bad. Too bad. And a lot of simplified characters don't make sense...

Take 蘇 and 穌. Although they are only one part different in traditional you wouldn't know that those characters are related if they are written in simplified.

Simplified is good for writing quickly, but traditional rocks in looks, usage, heritage et al.

Mao's fault. :mad:

Of course, with our advances in translation technology and voice recognition, PDAs and mobiles may well erode the language barrier...
And it's going to be hilarious when your friends replace the English-Arabic translator with the English-Yo'MammaInsultsinArabic version.

Oh, how much fun we'll have. :D

Take 蘇 and 穌. Although they are only one part different in traditional you wouldn't know that those characters are related if they are written in simplified.

What do they look like in simplified? And what do they mean?

I've always wanted to learn Mandarin. Had I the opportunity to learn it and USE it (or lose it), I would. For no other reason than I love learning languages, and not many non-Chinese speak it, so I could understand what those dirty-minded old grannies at the market are saying about me (one pinched my butt and giggled one day!!!!):)

In Edmonton, there are schools within the public system that offer immersion in various languages depending on the population needs. Out in the country there is not so much choice, though my kids will be entering French immersion right off the bat. If we did live in the city though, I would consider either Mandarin or Arabic as immersion languages simply because my children already have Spanish, and consequently any of the other romantic languages are going to come fairly easy to them. Learning a language which is so linguistically distinct from Spanish, Cree or English would be a great asset to them in terms of future ability for language learning.

People might say that English is the 'global language' of business, but people respond to you better when you deign to speak their native tongue. To me, it shows respect, and gives you an 'in' that monolingual people don't have.

Chinese will become an important language due to it's stepping up to the economic plate recently (and how!). Spainish is also, as mentioned, important, simply due to the sheer amount of countries that use it. I think Chinese should be taught early on in life, while the brain readily accepts new languages, due to the sheer difficulty of learning a language with an entirely different alphabet. But another question must be raised- Mandarin or Cantonese? There's a huge amount of variation between the two, and they're both pretty damn useful in the asian sector.

Mandarin definately. Only people in the Guang Zhou province, mainly Hong Kong, speak Cantonese. And as much as I would hate to admit it, Shanghai is becoming an alternative to Hong Kong (GLARGH).

Plus mandarin sounds a helluvalot prettier than Cantonese, trust me.

AND if you're really into learning, you should learn traditional, but know the rules that apply to make simplified.

But only Hong Kong, Singapore and Macau use traditional. China uses simplified.

What do they look like in simplified? And what do they mean?

Traditional: 穌 and 蘇

Simplified: http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1706/su18el.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su18el.jpg) and http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5697/su25pd.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su25pd.jpg)

Both characters don't mean anything on their own.

Mandarin definately. Only people in the Guang Zhou province, mainly Hong Kong, speak Cantonese. And as much as I would hate to admit it, Shanghai is becoming an alternative to Hong Kong (GLARGH).
I have to disagree.

Plus mandarin sounds a helluvalot prettier than Cantonese, trust me.
I have to disagree again.

AND if you're really into learning, you should learn traditional, but know the rules that apply to make simplified.

But only Hong Kong, Singapore and Macau use traditional. China uses simplified.

Although used widely, it looks ugly. Educated people in the mainland are reverting back to traditional....

I have to disagree. I have to disagree again. Although used widely, it looks ugly. Educated people in the mainland are reverting back to traditional....

You disagree with who speaks Cantonese, or with Shanghai becoming the alternative? Because I actually don't believe it, but the news reports keep on telling me that. It took a lot of me to type that.

I know simplified it ugly. I hate having to learn it, but apparently I'm too stupid to learn traditional, which is what I've been doing for the larger part of my life. I love the culture behind the traditional words, plus traiditional words can be much easier to learn sometimes because of the connection they have to history and such.

I think we should be going for japanese. Because China, like all corrupt dictatorships before it will collapse due to lack of innovation, they will rely on their people, rather then upgrading. And japan would be set to take over because they are techno as well as mech fit. And they have better GDP per capita then the US. Also, china and the US will get in a cold war, leaving japan on the US's side, but not millitraily, beause they see the point in not have a cold war with china.

Actually if superior GDP is your cause for angst we should look to Luxembourg as they are the only country that has a superior GDP per capita to the United States. I don't think they are poised to take over the world economy.

You disagree with who speaks Cantonese, or with Shanghai becoming the alternative? Because I actually don't believe it, but the news reports keep on telling me that. It took a lot of me to type that.

I know simplified it ugly. I hate having to learn it, but apparently I'm too stupid to learn traditional, which is what I've been doing for the larger part of my life. I love the culture behind the traditional words, plus traiditional words can be much easier to learn sometimes because of the connection they have to history and such.

I disagree that Shanghai is going to catch up "in the near future". I also disagree that Mandarin sounds better than Cantonese.

Simplified. characters. are. ugly.

Mao's fault. :mad:

Not for long... In five years, we'll all be talking about India, the most populous nation on Earth.

So maybe Hindi, or Telegu or whatever the majority speak. They're also much better allies than the Chinese, and aren't a communist dictatorship. That's pretty nifty.

Also, to the guy who wanted to speak Tagalog, don't bother if you're planning on visiting the Philippines. I'm here now, and they all speak English. It's an easy language to learn though, especially if you know Spanish.
I found Tagalog fascinating. I've never heard a laugauge which made greater use of the "a" sound. The name of the long-running Southern Mindanao insurgency is indicative: Hukbong Mapagpalayang Byan. I learned just enough of it to know I didn't want to learn any more. ;)

I've always wanted to learn Mandarin. Had I the opportunity to learn it and USE it (or lose it), I would. For no other reason than I love learning languages, and not many non-Chinese speak it, so I could understand what those dirty-minded old grannies at the market are saying about me (one pinched my butt and giggled one day!!!!):)

In Edmonton, there are schools within the public system that offer immersion in various languages depending on the population needs. Out in the country there is not so much choice, though my kids will be entering French immersion right off the bat. If we did live in the city though, I would consider either Mandarin or Arabic as immersion languages simply because my children already have Spanish, and consequently any of the other romantic languages are going to come fairly easy to them. Learning a language which is so linguistically distinct from Spanish, Cree or English would be a great asset to them in terms of future ability for language learning.

People might say that English is the 'global language' of business, but people respond to you better when you deign to speak their native tongue. To me, it shows respect, and gives you an 'in' that monolingual people don't have.
I agree completely. I've always been fascinated by the way language structures our thinking. In many cultures, there is no word for the English word "freedom." And that's just one example. Trying to understand how this impacts ( and limits ) the thinking of those who speak a particular language is a difficult task if you don't speak the language in question.

I seem to have a natural knack for picking up languages, particularly the vernacular, picking up a working knowledge of Vietnamese after about six months in-country. Unfortunately, a rather disressing experience during my undergraduate studies made me mistrust this ability. I was taking one course during the Summer: Spanish. It was an "immersion" approach, with no other language ( especially English ) being allowed in the classroom. One night, I began to dream in Spanish! No one had told me to expect this and it deeply disturbed me. I backed off and began studying Spanish as a subject, rather than as a language. Silly me. :(

I agree completely. I've always been fascinated by the way language structures our thinking. In many cultures, there is no word for the English word "freedom."

In English, "free" can mean "devoid of", "zero price/cost" or "without regulations". In Chinese, there are different combinations of characters for each of the meaning of "free".

One night, I began to dream in Spanish! No one had told me to expect this and it deeply disturbed me. I backed off and began studying Spanish as a subject, rather than as a language. Silly me. :(
He, he. It happens. I don't think I have dreamed in Spanish much lately, most of my dreams are in English now, but it's like I can recall them as if they had happened in either language.

I agree completely. I've always been fascinated by the way language structures our thinking. In many cultures, there is no word for the English word "freedom."
Which languages exactly do not have an equivalent to this word?

He, he. It happens. I don't think I have dreamed in Spanish much lately, most of my dreams are in English now, but it's like I can recall them as if they had happened in either language.
Dreaming in the language you are learning is a way your brain copes with the new information. You can't actually speak a language fluently until you can also think in it. It's a sure sign the language is catching on...just wait until you start forgetting words in your mother tongue...that can be distressing too, but it passes, and is perfectly natural.

Dreaming in the language you are learning is a way your brain copes with the new information. You can't actually speak a language fluently until you can also think in it. It's a sure sign the language is catching on...just wait until you start forgetting words in your mother tongue...that can be distressing too, but it passes, and is perfectly natural.
I already started! And it's so annoying because sometimes I forget them in both languages! :D

He, he. It happens. I don't think I have dreamed in Spanish much lately, most of my dreams are in English now, but it's like I can recall them as if they had happened in either language.
That is so kewl! I wish someone had told me to expect that. With a faculty for languages, who knows where I might have wound up instead of being a broke, old, disabled veteran, eh? :)

( But I'm still pretty! ) :D

I agree completely. I've always been fascinated by the way language structures our thinking. In many cultures, there is no word for the English word "freedom." And that's just one example. Trying to understand how this impacts ( and limits ) the thinking of those who speak a particular language is a difficult task if you don't speak the language in question.

Like in Newspeak?

I hope not. I have a hard enough time keeping 26 letters straight.

I'm Chinese. And I don't know Chinese!!! :eep: Well.. Not Mandarin Chinese. But I know Hokkien. :) Even then.. my brand of Hokkien would be so far off from people who do speak Hokkien in China (Usually Taiwan and nearby cities in China speak Hokkien, but ours haven't evolved for like 300 years).

Actually I heard, that most Chinese are learning to speak English. So if your white, learning Mandarin would be good so you pretend you don't know Chinese that they can't talk behind your back tee hee.

Make way for Hinglish. :D

http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/oct/17hing.htm
Professor David Crystal, author of more than 50 books on English, says 350 million Indians speak Hinglish as a second language, exceeding the number of native English speakers in Britain and the US.

Prof Crystal argues that the growing popularity of Indian culture around the world, including Bollywood movies, means that Hinglish will soon become more widely spoken outside the continent.

Some of the Hinglish words in vogue include airdash (travel by air), chaddis (underpants), chai (Indian tea), crore (10 million), dacoit (thief), desi (local), dicky (boot), gora (white person), jungli (uncouth), lakh (100,000), lumpen (thug), optical (spectacles), prepone (bring forward), stepney (spare tyre) and would-be (fiancé or fiancée).

Hey, uh, what does hoiser mean? Is it something like being from Quebec?
Me confused, y'all.

you mean hoser?

Watch the movie Strange Brew

I doubt I need to say why.
Because it would make watching Firefly easier?